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Revision as of 01:35, 23 January 2007

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• Refining the administrator elections process
• Blocks for promotional activity outside of mainspace

NLP update – Incivility, argumentative editing and COI – Some positive improvements though

Hello all. Further to the previous notifications on the NLP article : The most constructive effort now seems to me to be the encouragement of a civil atmosphere that allows editors of different viewpoints to get along and to present an article that includes all relevant views “presented in a balanced manner and that each is summarized as if by its proponents to their best ability.”. There are some problems remaining:

• Despite being reminded of the importance of civility for constructive editing - some editors (possibly the same one) are continuing to be uncivil by demanding blocks in edit summaries ( (under “serious examples”))

• Editors ignoring suggestions to civilly discuss edits (diffs as above)

• Some editors (possibly the same one) persistently restoring argumentative phrasing

• Editor trying to marginalize (ignore) critical discussion by using spacing

• Continued obscuring of relevant science views eg

On the positive side:

• Editors have stopped actually removing critical discussion from the talkpage:

• Concerning evidence for sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry: Some editors are editing using predominantly single use accounts : The recent COI issues on the article are perhaps more important considering the cultic issues inherent in the subject. Apart from this I see no evidence of any sockpuppeting actually going on in the article.

• There has been some compliance with Cleanuptaskforce suggestions. Also - though they do tend to try to marginalize critical suggestions critical influence shows some effect and there is a delayed positive response towards some of those suggestions afterwards.

Overall things are slowly moving forward. Civility is clearly very important on Misplaced Pages (as I see it in a nutshell - to “Participate in a respectful and civil way. Do not ignore the positions and conclusions of others. Try to discourage others from being uncivil, and be careful to avoid offending people unintentionally) and especially for articles such as the NLP article. None of the other articles I edit on have editors who persistently restore argumentative phrasing (WP words to avoid) into the text. It seems to me that as long as civility is properly adopted and reasonably maintained though - then all relevant views can be fairly presented and constructive article proceedings can be maintained long term. Again - if I inadvertently make any suggestion or action that is not constructive then I would be grateful if an admin could point it out here or on my talkpage. Thank you AlanBarnet 07:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks like the article has been trimmed down considerably, which is major progress. When I was a mentor on that article, it was ridiculously large. Good work! --Woohookitty 08:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement Woohookitty. Yes there's definitely room to make the whole article more concise in criticisms and in the general presentation of the subject. Redundancy can be reduced and the style can be made more encyclopedic. Moving forward. AlanBarnet 08:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Woohookitty for some positive remarks. As for AlanBarnet, the reason why he is sidelined and/or ignored by all the other regular editors is that they are all of the view that he is a sockpuppet of Long Term Abuser HeadleyDown and therefore attempts to negotiate/discuss civilly or compromise with him are a pointless waste of time. Several of these editors lived through the previous mediation/arbitration marathon and therefore have experience of this. The major improvements in accuracy of citations and quotations took place in the teeth of his interference and major improvements in trimming have taken place since all editors agreed to ignore AlanBarnet as a sockpuppet of HeadleyDown thus enabling some constructive work to be done.Fainites 18:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello Fainites. This is a good opporunity for you to try to get along with editors who hold different views from you. Some infrequent editors on the article seem to be in agreement with me concerning the need for civil discussion.. However, the prior assessments : indicate that you seem to be part of a domimating group who encourages COI editing and the promotional obscuring of views. You seem quite resistant to reasonable admin suggestions . According to policies on sockpuppetry the dominating group in this case could possibly be considered meatpuppets when following the same NPOV non-compliance and can all be considered the same editor when voting about other editors. I'm not particularly interested in banning COI editors or rooting out all possible meatpuppets though - and I'm sure admin will deal with any sockpuppetry. The main solution is to encourage editors to get along civilly so they can present all relevant views in concise form without obscuring the most relevant. I believe that above all - admin suggestions and scrutiny have been helpful in improving the NLP article and I'll continue to make helpful notifications to encourage civility and constructive editing for as long as its needed. I believe its inevitable that at some time you will have to show that you can get along with editors of different views. For the sake of civil discussion and a balanced article of course - the sooner the better. AlanBarnet 05:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• AlanBarnet is viewed by six independent regular editors as a bannable sockpuppet of long-term abuser HeadleyDown. This is AlanBarnet's 4th effort gaming WP:AN/I -- and his message is again overflowing with sugar-coated bait, arbitrary diffs, and flat-out lies. No-one has corroborated any of his stories and lies -- ever. The current success of the NLP article is due exclusively to all other editors indepedently deciding to ignore AlanBarnet completely -- enabling them to discuss and debate issues with sincerity. Even without an ear on the NLP talk page, AlanBarnet has nonetheless persisted in trolling both there and here. Please check out AlanBarnets talk page and you'll see his conflicts began with his arrival at wikipedia and have continued up to this date. Please, can an admin please review this situation? 58.178.97.116 05:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi 58. I am not gaming anyone. I have shown commitment to civility and that will continue in cooperation with admin. I believe my discussion behavior complies with how a Wikipedian should communicate on Misplaced Pages and follows how other admin communicate. Criticising it probably doesn't help. I believe my userpage is full of undue harassment towards me and shows a particular group's pressure to stifle criticism. If anything it shows that the more pressure I get - the more civil I become. I hope to encourage this civility reaction in others long term on the NLP article and all the other articles I am editing on. Feel free to join. AlanBarnet 14:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I just want to add a quick note. It has been a pleasure collaborating with 58.* and Fainites. I believe these editors tend to be on the healthy skeptical side. Together we are working on NPOV. We have systematically worked through the entire article to checking facts and references. It has come a long way on the road to become a wikipedia feature article standard. We want to promote an atmosphere in the article and discussion so that more experienced wikipedians are willing to weigh in. --Comaze 12:16, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello Comaze. Judging by the past notices there is a dominating group on the NLP article (and there are COI issues) who tend to obscure relevant views for the purpose of promotion. Just yesterday Fainites and 58 added defensive writing to the lead section dressed up as criticism. The Cleanuptaskforce just asked for less defensive writing from proponents yet it was added as if its criticism. Criticism has been obscured. The science fact is that NLP is unsupported. The main criticism and concern is that NLP is pseudoscientfic and there are concerns about it being promoted as a therapy in self development and in HRM. Its fairly clear that as a group there is no substantial skepticism. It took a lot of work and even scrutiny from this ANI to make the basic fact present on the article (unsupported). The obvious solution: If more experienced Wikipedians are to be encouraged to edit there then it would help if you as a group would show that you can get on with editors who hold diffent views and who want to report straight. AlanBarnet 14:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Absolute nonsense.Fainites 16:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Fainites. Professor Devilly appeared on the talkpage a while back and said he held NLP as an archetypal pseudoscience . His paper also supports the view that NLP is a pseudoscience. Professor Drenth (1999) and others call it pseudoscientific. Its discussed in books about mind myths and pseudoscience and the main reason for mentioning it is because it is promoted in fringe psychotherapy - pop psychology and human resource management. Editors have persistently been suppressing that information in the lead section eg . I'm glad to see that the incivil edit summary has been omitted though. Now in order to be properly civil it is necessary to discuss with all editors whatever their view. I believe most here would deem that to be in the spirit of constructive editing on Misplaced Pages. AlanBarnet 04:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Rfwoolf

Rfwoolf (talk · contribs) has not made many contributions to the encyclopaedia, but one of these was a re-creation of Anal stretching (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), which was deleted and endorsed then endorsed again. At one point he asked me to userfy the article so he could rework it, which I did, but he simply reposted it minus a small amount of text, and it was deleted as WP:CSD#G4 - its third deletion under G4, by my count, so at that point it was WP:SALTed. Ever since then, Rfwoolf has been making louder and louder disgruntled noises, largely against me, as the last deleter and salter (although the previous G4s were by other admins). I have tried to be fair to him at Misplaced Pages:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests/December 2006/Rfwoolf but he appears unwilling to accept that this is anything other than a personal vendetta against an article which, presumably, he considers to be of vital importance to the project. He has now started causing disruption at the Village Pump (is it a natural law that mis-spelled accusations of "hyopcrasy" are baseless?). Would somebody mind having a go at calming him down? Guy (Help!) 22:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• Why does he say he has more than 12 trillion edits? JuJube 22:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

• Funny ha-ha userbox. Teke 01:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Oof... okay, question: does he have a copy of the article in user or article talkspace anywhere? It looks like he's trying to recreate/fix it up in the article's talk page but it's rather disorganized right now. I'll do my best to help; it's pretty clear he just didn't understand policy and now is so worked up over it he's refusing to let it sink in. I think we can fix this, it'll just take some work. —bbatsell ¿? 22:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

It was recommended by a) Deletion Review and b) the AMA Request for assistance and c) himself -- that I recreate the article in my user talk page, then show it to (or another admin) and if it was up to scratch they would re-instate the article. So I spent a few hours begrudgingly recreating and reresearching the article all by myself to make peace and I put on the talk page of Anal stretching only to find that your precious hypocritcal Guy has deleted all my hard work without warning and completely unilaterally. So the answer to your question was yes and now it is now no! Please encourage him to put back all my work. Rfwoolf 09:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Um. He reposted the thing all but identical, twice. That is not "not understanding policy", it's obsessing over a truly dismal subject for an article. But whatever. Guy (Help!) 23:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Guy, if you have heard me at all in all these proceedings, you'll finally understand what I've said a thousand times: I didn't know what G4 was, I thought deletions took place in AfD debates, and I was trying to fix up the Anal stretching article, yes, by reposting similar content twice but in the same hour because it kept on being G4d. You then salted the article. That was over a month ago. Even though you should now understand that I won't abuse privilage by reposting the same content without templates this time, you still refuse to unsalt the article! So stop accusing me of malicious disregard for policy. If you were a bit more open and reasonable it would really help! Rfwoolf 09:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I've left some advice on his talk page, though looking over his activities I'm not optimistic that it will do much good. Nevertheless, I'll continue to try to settle him down. FeloniousMonk 01:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

FeloniousMonk, I have tried my best to be completely open to reason -- and continue to do so. I remain fully reasonable. Your pessimistic comment is either because Guy has completely misrepresented me in the above, or because you don't have a solid understanding of this dispute. I have tried recreating the article -- which was G4d and salted (even though the article should exist) -- then I tried Deletion Review which didn't help -- then I tried Request for Assistance, and my Advocate (User Talk:dfrg.msc) has thanked me for being civil and encouraged Guy to be more civil and supported my attempt to rewrite the article on the talk page of Anal stretching -- which Guy didn't object to -- but subsequently deleted my hours of work and its history without warning, unfairly and unilaterally, going against his own recommendations. So, I don't think I need to be settled down. I think if anything, Guy has done a lot to provoke me and prevent solution to these problems. It's him that needs to stop throwing his weight around and get some admins with balls to talk to him. Rfwoolf 09:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, agree to disagree here. I think he has a clear lack of understanding of policy (as shown by his insistence that since he only recreated the deleted article three times, it should not have been SALTed and the SALTing should be deleted to make room for the recreated article again). I'll do my best to explain things, but I need an answer to my question — is a copy of the article residing anywhere in user or talkspace? Thanks —bbatsell ¿? 03:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

What about User:Kingpr0n? --Calton | Talk 05:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems I am being grossly misrepresented. Guy has defiled my userpage by removing some harmless Userboxes and removing some constructive criticism on Wiki Deletion Policy without reasoning with me (and he cited WP:SOAP which has little/no bearing on userpages) -- his actions were unilateral and I have support from at least 1 admin that his actions were too harsh. Guy has further disobeyed the recommendations of Deletion Review the AMA Request for assistance recommendations and his own recommendations -- that I recreate the Anal stretching article on a talk page -- because he has since deleted my hours of work on the talk page of Anal stretching and deleted its history. He is being more than a dick. I'm considering arbitration if he doesn't come to his senses.

1. He should immediately undelete my hours of work on Anal stretching and restore it to the Anal stretching talk page
2. He should immediately unprotect my Userpage

These are two perfectly 150% justified requests -- and you admins should be assisting me with this.

Rfwoolf 09:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• That would, you know, wrong. From the DRV page:

Create the article in your user space, at User:Rfwoolf/Anal stretching, ensuring that it is reliably sourced, and not a how to guide. Then show it to me or to any other admin. If the article is reliably sourced, asserts why the topic is notable, doesn't read like a how-to guide, and is encyclopaedic, then the article will be recreated.

You didn't create it in your user space, you didn't create it in the linked space (the deletion log shows that nothing was ever there) AND you didn't show it to someone first.

Your misunderstanding regarding WP:SOAP has been explained to you already, so unprotecting your user page before you're willing to promise not to use it as a soapbox isn't going to fly, either. --Calton | Talk 12:16, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Re: You didn't create it in your user space, you didn't create it in the linked space (the deletion log shows that nothing was ever there) AND you didn't show it to someone first.
  

You are unfortunately rather mistaken. I did create in the linked space Anal stretching talkpage (honest to God!) in fact I spent hours rewriting the article from scratch and the next day it was gone! I have asked Guy if he was responsible but he says no. I am in the process of finding out who was responsible.

Also, why does it have to be in my user space? If articles on wikipedia are collaborative, then there's no reason why articles shouldn't be collaborated on their talk page -- it's what it's there for.

• Re: Your misunderstanding regarding WP:SOAP has been explained to you already,...
  -- have you read my comments about that? WP:USER clearly says that constructive criticism of wikipedia or wikipolicy is allowed on the user talk page -- don't be so self-righteous. Now, is somebody going to admit I have a point, or try to reason with me because nobody has. Rfwoolf 14:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

If you feel that the article was wrongly deleted then take it to deletion review. It's what deletion review was created for. Don't troll Guy on your user page, that is not constructive. MartinDK 14:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

His issues are not just with SOAP but WP:POINT as well: , , , I'm saddened that he has failed to take my simple advice to step back. Instead, it appears he's trying to fan flames, creating the User:Rfwoolf/Evidence subpage and continuing to follow Guy to his user talk page: He gives every indication that he is refractory and willing to expand the disruption. I've urged him to reconsider both my advice and his method, but I'm beginning to suspect we are dealing with a troll, considering the source of all this concern on his part is over a deleted article on "Anal stretching"... FeloniousMonk 13:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• I tried really hard to resist this conclusion, but I have to agree. The combination of the subject, the obsessive nature with which he pursues it, and his very limited prior contributions, looks very much like one of our recurrent trolls. This edit in particular is deliberately provocative, inserting his editorial comments into my statement on his talk page. Guy (Help!) 13:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Guy I am by no means a troll. Do you believe you have been beyond reproach here? Do you believe I have no reason to be frustrated and confused? You block my userpage, somebody deletes my hours of work, you cite WP:SOAP and I cite WP:USER and instead of being civil you block my userpage, you deleted some harmless userboxes -- and all of this was after the SALTing of Anal Stretching. So in many ways I have been rather tormented by admins, yourself included. My editorial of your one post on my talk page -- which I have apologised for -- was not too inappropriate at the time considering I thought you deleted all my work -- and I wouldn't dream of doing that anywhere else but on my own talk page. I am not a troll. Rfwoolf 14:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I suppose him using hello.jpg as an example image to the draft article in his user space I proposed and citing Goatse.cx as a reliable source would be conclusive proof we're being trolled, but I'd rather not wait for it to get to that stage. FeloniousMonk 14:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

He seems to be unable to tell the difference between an article and yet more meta argument. At what point do we cut our losses? As to his comments above, they are utterly without merit. I did not delete "some harmless userboxes", I deleted a rant, and some random crap got swept up with it (a self-awarded barnstar, for example). And that was only the second time, the first time I removed it I managed to leave the random crap behind, but being Rfwoolf the rant had to go back of course. Oh, and I have since restored the random crap anyway, which makes the complaint doubly baseless. Felonious is right: Woolf is trolling us. Guy (Help!) 09:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: WP:SOAP and WP:USER, this admin has rightfully put some constructive criticism about Misplaced Pages and is fully justified in doing so and is fully protected by WP:USER, and WP:SOAP is irrelevant. So far this gives me even more of a feeling I was in the right about that issue. Rfwoolf 16:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Because it's constructive. Guy (Help!) 21:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
• Everyone with a legitimate complaint that presents it in a civil respectful way should be treated with respect. Your criticism amounted to personal attacks and incivility. It has been ignored by most, and dealt with by those so inclined to protect the integrity of Misplaced Pages. This should not come as a surprise. I cannot honestly believe that you are so willfully blind as to not see your "criticism" for the attacks they were. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 22:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Persistent trolling by User:193.219.28.146 on Talk:Ass to mouth - 3RR violation?

I submitted a 3RR violation report concerning anonymous User:193.219.28.146 persistent re-adding an unconstructive and inflammatory comment to Talk:Ass to mouth, because he objects to the existence of the article rather than suggesting improvements (the article recently survived an AfD). His comment has been removed by 5 different editors (including one admin) over the past few days, and the anon editor has recently re-posted the comment a 6th time today. He has been warned multiple times, and claims on his talk page that (a) his talk page comments are meant to improve Misplaced Pages; (b) he is not doing any reverting, others are reverting him and they shouldn't be deleting talk page edits; and (c) there isn't a precedent for reporting 3RR violations on a talk page.

My question is, is this appropriately reportable as a 3RR violation, or is there a better place to report persistent trolling? Details of the incident are documented in my 3RR report at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR#User:193.219.28.146_reported_by_User:Axlq_.28Result:.29. If there is a better place to report it, please let me know. =Axlq 00:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

You're within your rights to remove the comment (within 3RR), but my advice would be to leave the comment in place and answer him. Or leave the comment in place and ignore him. He's wrong, but he's within his rights to ask the question, so long as he doesn't 3RR. Regards, Ben Aveling 00:16, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) With all due respect, I agree with the anon - not about the substance of his comment, but about the fact that you shouldn't be deleting a reasonably civil talk page comment. He writes that this article is one of the differences between the Misplaced Pages and Britannica. Well, in that, he is absolutely correct. I personally believe that makes us more useful, but that's just an opinion. In any case, it is less disruptive to just let it stand. Trying to delete those three lines of text has already wasted ten times the effort of writing them. AnonEMouse 00:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Second this. Viridae 00:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Not me. He was answered repeatedly on his talk page, civilly. =Axlq

I had blocked the IP for 24hr for disruption, and then saw this (and then 3RR). Feel free to alter the block. Thanks/wangi 00:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse block. Endorse the anon's right to ask the question again after the block expires. Regards, Ben Aveling 00:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

What question? He didn't ask any. He posted a comment about how articles like this devalue Misplaced Pages. =Axlq 00:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

If someone repeatedly places the same message on some one's talk page that they have acknowledged (deleting a message is the same as acknoledging that you read it) then it becomes harassment and incivility. The only time you should -ever- force a message to stay on a page is if a user is currently acting to vandalise the pedia and an easily accessible log needs to be there for a WP:AIV note. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 02:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

That is kinda irrelevant - we have been removing a trolling comment from an article that has had a lot of scrutiny recently. The comment is completely non-constructive and its removal is in line with WP:TALK (ie. the second sentence, namely 'Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views.') Also, as I have stated elsewhere, 4 editors agree that his comment is inappropriate for that talk page and have removed it.

I disagree with the earlier editor who said it is wasted time removing them. If they stay it leads to other users adding similar comments which are also pointless (for example just prior to this silly incident there was another anon who went on a bit of a rant about it being anti-christian). Keeping a talk page tidy and on topic is just as important as actually working on the article in my opinion.-Localzuk 12:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

This issue has restarted. I removed the comment (and that of a supporter as it would have been redundant without the thread opener). It has been reverted again. Can this talk page be semi-protected to avoid this? Also, the block imposed seems to have no deterrent effect. Mallanox 01:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Not only has the issue restarted, but the anon editor has already violated 3RR yet again -- and has promised to keep doing so on his talk page. =Axlq 05:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Professor allegedly telling students to vandalize wikipedia

Per this post a professor is allegedly telling students to vandalize wikipedia. They began with Northern Illinois University's article but according to the report they have expanded to other areas. Thanks for the semi-protection to that article and the other volunteers who reverted similar vandalism. I would suggest keeping the semi-protection a bit longer. --Dual Freq 03:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

We had this happen at Owens Community College a few months ago (see its talk page, and history) and probably other schools as well. Do we know the IP ranges of NIU? Antandrus (talk) 03:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

If it can be proven that the professor in question really did ask his students to vandalize Misplaced Pages, then I suggest that the evidence be posted here, along with contact address for the professor's faculty dean, the president of the university, and the university's office for handling academic misconduct. Concerned Wikipedians can then send an e-mail or letter to the authorities of their choice to complain about the conduct of the professor. As a (former) academic myself, I'm appalled that an educator would encourage or require his students to commit an antisocial and possibly illegal act as coursework, and I expect that this professor's colleagues and superiors would see it the same way. —Psychonaut 03:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

To be fair, telling your students to go be annoying on the internet and report back on the results is probably not illegal. Inappropriate, yes. Opabinia regalis 06:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Second (as a current academic). See also similar case from Dec'05.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  07:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Keep in mind that the assertion and acusation that the instructor (who is not a professor) was behind this are unproven... I'm not going to post the proper contact info here to avoid a flood of abusive complaints, but it's all out there on the web, and I have sent the chair and assistant chair of the department and coordinator for the class series that this instructor is teaching a report and complaint, asking that they investigate and figure out if the instructor really did do that. If he did, then hopefully they can be convinced to take appropriate action. But he should be treated as innocent until there's some credible evidence. For all we know right now, it's a Joe-job, trying to get an innocent uninvolved person in trouble. If you feel the need to add additional complaints, please do so keeping in mind that the evidence is pretty weak (a single pseudonymous acusation). Georgewilliamherbert 09:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Good point - it may as well be a student prank. We will see what the accused replies; According to posts below, he admitted to this. One way or another I'd expect that the involved teachers should stress to students that 'vandalising Misplaced Pages is as bad as breaking a window in your local shop' and such.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay, right. Now Misplaced Pages has been proven to be a reliable source, let's also prove that Misplaced Pages is reliable at filing abuse reports. Yuser31415 05:16, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages has not been proven to be a reliable source because it is not a reliable source. Any student who relies entirely on a wikipedia article is a fool. Misplaced Pages is however a great starting place, and as our references continue to improve we will become greater and greater, but as we are a wiki we will never be, and never can be, a reliable source. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 09:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The IP range utilized by Northern Illinois University is 131.156.0.0/16, as seen by this representative IP, 131.156.81.115 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log).—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 05:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• There are also other IP ranges, such as the following:
  • 71.56.0.0 - 71.63.255.255
  • 67.160.0.0 - 67.191.255.255
• Both of which are utilized by the city of Dekalb, Illinois, home of NIU.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 05:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Cool--thanks. I think we should all examine any edits from these ranges in the next few days. This is where I wish we had a SQL facility, e.g. "select all recent changes from 'time period' where editor IP begins with 131.156"... Antandrus (talk) 06:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

We have one. He's called Brion Vibber. Titoxd 06:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

SQL access is not necessary. Checkuser can do it. Raul654 19:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I sent an email to the professor (it's spelled Pierce, by the way), who acknowledges that he did indeed make this assignment. I told him I would be forwarding the informaton to the president of the university. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify: he acknowledged this in an email reply to you? OOC, did he apologize or is he arguing he did the right thing? -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

He acknowledged this and tried to justify his actions. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I have passed Professor's Pierce's reply on to the Northern Illinois University office of public relations, and have asked them to pass it on to the school's President. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's that uncommon task for university profs to set - I've seen it used a couple of times on courses (generally the prof will commit the vandalism and then revert). One use is to show why wikipedia should not be used as a source (Study skills context), the second is to show that wikipedia is to open to abuse (with an INFO-SEC context). --Fredrick day 19:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Fredrick, if one wants to prove the violatile nature of Wiki's, that's what sandbox and one's userspace is. I teach, I talk about Wikis, I do use my userpage to demonstrate those issues - but I'd never thought to vandalize a real article even for a few seconds to prove to my students what can be proven as well on my userpage (as messing up real article's history and allowing a reader to find vandalised info during the few seconds it takes one to revert a change is simply bad). That said, I encourage examples of 'good editing' - I prefer to show my studnets how easy it is to add interlinks or copyedit articles.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

That's great but you are coming from a perspective of domain expertise - many of the people doing this, don't understand wikipedia beyond a) "it's that free-speech website that anyone can edit and add anything about anyone" b) "this is the place that students cut and paste large sections of their assignments from". I'm not excusing anyone but that's just how it is. --Fredrick day 19:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed - so it is our job to educate them. A very good way to to it in the academia is to ask them to read this article from Journal of American History (I do suggest sending it to the professors involved in this incident).-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I finished checking the NIU class B.

• Edits that concern me and should probably be verified:
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Wheeling%2C_Illinois&diff=101685760&oldid=96451410
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=John_Wooden&diff=101268126&oldid=101232824
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Michigan_State_University_Residence_Halls_Association&curid=4575200&diff=102152804&oldid=92396515
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Huntley%2C_Illinois&curid=111373&diff=101151565&oldid=101050130

• Vandalism:
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Brookfield_Zoo&curid=1207234&diff=102039931&oldid=101862270 (Uncaught)
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Steroid&curid=141922&diff=102024168&oldid=101770838

The other ranges are too large and dense to check easily. Raul654 19:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I just plain undid the questionable edits that you listed (except for the Wheeling one, as you beat me to that). One was a fact changing thing, the MSU one could not be supported, and the Huntley one was not supported by the reference (there are five Pacific Islanders in all of Huntley, Illinois, which has a 0.00 percentage of the population, not 0.02).—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 19:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

5/16,719 = 0.000299 or approximately 0.03%. That wasn't vandalism. Can an admin unrevert and de-warn the editor? Jd2718 03:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I gave all of the above {{Test4im}} warnings, and a {{SharedIPEDU}} with the link to Northwestern pointing to this discussion. I say we have an extremely short leash -- A minimum one month IP block (including user registration) on the next obvious case of vandalism. This cannot be allowed, IMO. -- Avi 20:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Professor Pierce's reply

This was Professor Pierce's email reply to me:

They needed to learn a lesson about how easy it is to find information and how open source information is not the best way to go. This was after I was getting a lot of Misplaced Pages cites last semester where students were citing really dubious information from there. One way for them to realize that using sources, such as Misplaced Pages, is to get them to see how simple it is to change the information that is there.

I then replied to him that I would be passing his response on to the University President, and he relied:

It's not that I'm advocating vandalism as I had them print the original page so that, even if it wasn't caught, I could go back and recreate the correct page. The bigger issue, though, is that anybody can do this and have information that is online on your servers until who knows when until the page is discovered and corrected.

User:Zoe|(talk) 20:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

What on Earth is he talking about? I tell my students not to trust Misplaced Pages, and that if they do, they're likely to get things wrong, and get worse results; that's what most of my colleagues do (though most sensible undergraduates don't need to be told). Why does he have to tell them to vandalise Misplaced Pages in order to get them to work sensibly? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I tell my students Wiki is a great place to start their research - but a very bad place to finish it. We are moving towards a level of quality with every fact properly referenced, but of course we are just an encyclopedia. Undergrads (and grads, and even professors) may find reading a Wiki article on unknown subject useful to get a general gist of relevant info, but then they should have enough knowledge to go to academic databases. Although I think increasingly we will have high quality articles on obscure subjects that may not even be covered well in English academic works (I challenge anyone to find a better English biography of this person then we have :) -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  01:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this is what I do too (good starting point). I also point them to the excellent resource here Misplaced Pages:Researching_with_Wikipedia. i can't imagine endorsing vandalism , they really need to actually do it to know it is possible? David D. (Talk) 20:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I smell WP:POINT violations. --physicq (c) 23:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I have a suggestion for Mr. Pierce. If you want your students to learn about the dangers of using wikipedia, have them search for five unreferenced figures in this encyclopedia. They can use the random article button on the left side of the screen. Have them verify those figures. Chances are that some of the figures will turn out to be wrong. You will get your message across to your students, they will hopefully learn from it and we will know which information is incorrect. Aecis 00:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I have another suggestion. He could get his students to improve an article on Misplaced Pages, and verify it.

As an aside, this professor has very little technical knowledge about Misplaced Pages, especially as we have the revert function and don't have to rely on printouts to restore the article to its previous state. Yuser31415 01:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Geez the same pointless experiment over and over. Don't these people realize they can just look into the history to see how we react to vandalism? HighInBC 01:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Very few people who are not editors realize what Misplaced Pages really is. I am not suprised at that, this is only to be expected. I would however expect an academic to read up on what other academics have done with Misplaced Pages: WP:SUP and WP:ACST are the two links that Professor Pierce should look through as soon as possible and Rosenzweig's article in JoAH should be obligatory reading for anybody thinking about 'teaching' and 'Misplaced Pages' in the same sentence.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  01:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Page break for readability

I have no qualms with a prof making a real-time point by inserting erroneous info into an article while the class watches on a screen, and then reverting it right then and there. But asking the whole class apart from oversight of the university's Institutional Review Board (IRB) needlessly takes the point too far.

Like it or not, it is an entirely legitimate research project to study vandalism and reverts on WP by engaging in them. Such a research project could certainly pass IRB approval for a class research project. This has to be admitted and, yes, possibly expected. That said, this does not appear to be the case here.

The response letter composed was probably hasty and not done in the most effective manner. All that needed doing was to remind the prof that, for class research projects, he must first get IRB approval - which he would certainly admit to - and if he does the project again, you would report it to the university's IRB. IRB approval of research projects is a time-consuming, tedious task. This would have probably been the end of the matter. If not, if it occurred again, then the letter should go to the IRB, indicating the prof's class is doing research not under their approval. That really would put a stop to it. CyberAnth 06:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, that would assume that the professor was doing it as a research project. Professors and students also have to abide to a code of ethics (I know I have to in my university), and violations usually are taken seriously. Titoxd 06:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Per the description, it certainly appears as though it were a research project - one NOT done under the IRB. The rest of what you said is exactly my point. If asked by several users, I would be happy to write a second letter to this prof along the lines of what I am speaking. CyberAnth 06:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

If you want to prove to your students that glass shatters, you buy a sheet of glass and a hammer. You don't ask them to throw rocks at the windscreens in the parking lot. yandman 09:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

True, but that analogy is seriously not correlative. CyberAnth 10:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I do have qualms with a professor illustrating a point by vandalising and immediately reverting an article. The same demonstration could easily be carried out by editing a sandbox or previewing the article without saving it. —David Levy 20:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I have had further discussion with Professor Pierce. I asked him if he felt that if a newspaper had false information, his students should steal all of the copies out of the vendor's box, and if he found something wrong in Encyclopaedia Brittanica, would he encourage them to rip the page out of the book, but he doesn't see the analogy. I also mentioned that we have seen an increase in vandalism from NIU IP addresses which, despite his claim, he had not reverted, and he apologized for the extra work entailed in fixing that. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hm, isn't there an essay about this? Something like "Use Misplaced Pages as your first source, not your last source?" Because it does strike me as a very good topic for one, and something to hand to frustrated professors and the like while at the same time asking them not to vandalize to make a point. Heck, the suggestion of the alternative assignment of properly citing an uncited article and noting inaccuracies (instead of vandalizing) alone sounds like a very worthwhile thing to mention to people. Bitnine 20:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it is legitimate research regardless of the approving body. Defacement of websites is illegal in the US, not that we ever take legal action, but that fact certainly invalidates the legitimacy of the experiment. HighInBC 20:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Academic use, WP:CW and Misplaced Pages:General disclaimer. Special:Cite actually links to the last one. —xyzzy_n 21:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

defusd timebomb

I just blanked, and deleted http://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_famous_people_responsible_for_a_death

We had names of many famous people, stating they were responsible for someone else dying: Not a single reference.

I was told that I should have AFD it instead

The potential for libel was huge, afd was likely to come as no consensus or keep. Wikimedia can't take the risk of being sued for the sake of process.

So I deleted the entry to hide history, and drop a note stating should anybody readd content it must be with references.

Probably many people will complain and ask for my head, just telling you people why I did it. -- Drini 07:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• So if people want to reconstruct it, references are easy to come by for 90% of the names there at least. It's a kinda dumb article, though. --jpgordon 07:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support Deletion If it's recreated with references than yes, it could be a decent article, but as it was, it could have been a liability to the project. Canadian-Bacon 08:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
• I endorse the deletion. Humongous BLP liability, not to mention being an entirely ambiguous and unproductive list. Who qualifies as "famous"? What constitutes "responsibility" for a death? Does it only included people convicted of murder or manslaughter, or anyone alleged to have "had a hand" in someone else's death? Seems silly to me. —bbatsell ¿? 08:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
• It is worth noting that WP:V puts the burden of evidence on those seeking to add content or readd it, and that if this burden of proof is not satisified, it may be deleted. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 09:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Good call, of course, and we should be embarassed it was sitting around this long. Jkelly 09:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

This brings up an interesting sourcing issue. Every item listed on this list had a wikilink to an at least one other article (usually a biography, sometimes an article about the incident itself). I haven't checked them all, but those linked articles I did check did have sourcing for the death incident. So they are sourced on Misplaced Pages, but not on this particular list article, where each incident is just briefly mentioned. Are we now going to require sourcing of an incident in every article in which an incident is mentioned, even just in passing, or is linking to an article with proper sourcing adequate? We could have a field day if every list must be sourced on the list itself. Who wants to delete List of Australian criminals and the dozens of other related biographical list articles? Perhaps we could start using footnotes on wikilinks that say "information sourced in the linked article." NoSeptember 11:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• I think it is a very bad idea for an article, open for all kinds of sneaky POV and vandalism, and bound to fail to give adequate context. Being responsible for something can mean anything from failing to call the cops during the escalation of a dispute to actually pulling the trigger. The subject is too fraught with difficulties. And I don't see an encyclopaedic subject "famous people being responsible for a death". Guy (Help!) 13:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Then please AfD it if you think so, because I'm working on restoring it. You can help! --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
• I endorse deletion as per above. If it is recreated, this should be done one item at a time; any reference to a living person without an iron-clad reference must be deleted immediately (per WP:BLP). Bucketsofg 14:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
  • In fairness to this list, it was actually a pretty tight list. Users Zzuuzz, Jessek and Duemellon were actively removing any unsourced or incorrect listings in recent months. The items were sourced on wikipedia (just in the actual biography articles, not on this list article) and the sources would have been easy to find on wiki. At a minimum these would qualify as the equivalent of a Convenience link. There are hundreds of list articles that are in the same format (unsourced on the list itself, but just a click on a wikilink away from proper sources). We should not get too lazy when deciding to delete these articles, save the deletions for the truly bad articles, not well maintained ones like this one was. (This in no way reflects on how I would vote on an AfD of this article - I'm addressing the sourcing issues of lists only). Cheers, NoSeptember 14:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
    • "Sourcing" via wikilinks is probably fine when the information is readily available and not controversial; in such instances, the convenience link argument holds. However, for information that is contested, controversial, difficult to find, or -- most especially -- covered under WP:BLP, wikilinking is unsuitable as referencing. We have no means to ensure that the references in Bob the Living Person's article today will be there tomorrow, for example. This is one of the reasons that Misplaced Pages does not consider itself a reliable source. Claims about living people require reliable sources. Serpent's Choice 06:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• I think the deletion was a good call. In cases like this a category might be a better choice (Leaving aside the appropriateness of the topic.) Tom Harrison 14:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

AfD started by me: Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_famous_people_responsible_for_a_death HighInBC 15:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the article nees to be afd. AS badlydrawnjeff is redoing it with references, it's ok. It was the unsourcing that was bad. Jeff is doing right reconstructing it with references. -- Drini 17:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• Nothing wrong with that call. Blatant violation of WP:BLP. - Mgm| 12:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a perfect segue (although maybe not a perfect forum) for an issue I've been thinking about: contentious categories. Categories don't have references either, and IMO such examples as 'anti-semite', 'bisexual', 'serial killer', etc constitute borderline BLP vios because they aren't referenced on the cat page (and often on the article page too). Anchoress 13:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Betacommand has closed the AFD as delete, and implemented the deletion. I think it's a good call, as the deluge of delete votes there probably lent itself quite readily to a WP:SNOW close. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 18:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Community ban for Haham hanuka

Please see Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive146#haham hanuka (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log). A community ban was proposed for this user previously, with many people endorsing either the ban or an arbitration case instead. He has a very extensive block log for edit warring, disruption, evasion, etc. That was two months, and since then, neither happened, but has continued his disruptive behavior. He just violated 3RR yet again at Adolf Hitler , and persists in calling those he disagrees with "vandals". Previously, it was brought up that he is banned from the Hebrew Misplaced Pages, with his user page saying he was a troll. I'm not inclined to give him any more of our patience. I've gone ahead and implemented the ban, but this is up for review, of course. Dmcdevit·t 09:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse permanent ban. Was only recently edit-warring on Adolf Hitler; also looking at all those blocks, I think the community has given him enough time to reform. HTH HAND. — Nearly Headless Nick 11:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse. Has been a fairly disruptive force in Misplaced Pages, and he hasn't changed his ways. -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. 12:36, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse as above. Bucketsofg 14:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse the ban. --Coredesat 19:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse. Khoikhoi 20:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 20:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse, he has shown he cannot edit without being a disruption. --Wildnox(talk) 20:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse. General Idea 20:40, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse BenBurch 20:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse • The community has been very patient with this user, but I suspect the community's patience is worn threadbare. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 23:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Changed userpage to appropriate template, suggest notifying WP:LOBU, no comment. 68.39.174.238 20:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Correction, a noxious bot reverted me; someone else will have to do it instead. 68.39.174.238 21:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Endorse. Amazed he lasted this long. --jpgordon 07:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Racial percentages of Sean Paul

A line continues to be removed from a Sean Paul article relating to his racial percentages. The line in question is "Racially, this means that Sean Paul is 62.5% White, 25% Chinese and 12.5% Black". This is based on testimony which is already shown in the article. However, I calculated the percentages and posted them, because it is in general easier to understand. Since many users will be going to the Sean Paul article specifically to find out about his racial background, this information is important. The user Guettarda has removed it, stating that it is original research. However, in my opinion, this is not original research, but a simple math calculation that anyone could perform in their head. The only difference is, this makes it easier for readers who are less math-saavy than I am. I have once again replaced the line, but I informed Guettarda that I would report the issue to administration to find out what should really be done. Rhythmnation2004 14:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

• If it's not original research then you will be able to cite a reliable secondary source which says precisely this. Otherwise, it is original research. Quite why anyone would care about these percentages is an exercise left to the reader. Guy (Help!) 15:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
• Have you tried WP:DR? What administrators abilities are you looking for? I find Third opinion is a great venue for such things. HighInBC 15:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Apart from the issue of what value it adds to the article, the "percentages" (to 0.5%!) really are not supported by the source - "mixed black and white" does not necessarily mean half and half, while "Portuguese descent" does not mean pure Portuguese, especially since he claims descent from Solomon, making the family Portuguese Jews (like many in the Caribbean) - after 500 years in the Caribbean, the default assumption is that these people are mixed, not that they are unmixed. So the "percentages" are not in keeping with the available information - the info is too vague. Guettarda 15:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Generally, when a person says they are "mixed black and white", that usually means that it's half and half. It's not as if Sean Paul is perfect when it comes to the English language. He speaks the typical lingo of Jamaicans, who always consider "mixed black and white" to equal half Black and half White. And Portuguese Jews are white - since when are Jews a separate race? That's a little bit Hitler-ish, if you ask me.Rhythmnation2004 15:45, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Please continue this on the talk page of the article in question or take it to dispute resolution. This is not the forum for this sort of thing.-Localzuk 15:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Even if you're 100% correct, articles can only include information that's verifiable, not based on facts that might "generally" be true. SuperMachine 15:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflicts) #1, this is a content dispute and doesn't belong here. #2, without a clear-cut source, this constitutes original research. #3, "race" is an extremely fuzzy concept (which many people don't realize) and calculating the exact percentage of one's racial affiliations is laughable to me. #4, why would the average reader care? Grandmasterka 15:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

And #5: implying and insinuating that another way of thinking is "a little bit Hitler-ish" is absurd. Please leave such rhetoric out of this. Misplaced Pages is not a chat room. Aecis 15:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I would point out that this editor seems to have a thing for original research and then making uncalled for comments when he does not get his way. I to the editor would suggest that you study wikipedia policy a bit more closely, especially when interacting with admins and other editors. Especially if you plan to take a 4th run at RFA. --Fredrick day 16:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I hadn't seen that. Slightly odd considering I'm neither adminned nor a crazed Michael Jackson fan, but I won't hold it against him. Trebor 19:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

As others have said, this is not the place for this discussion. However, seeing as it's here: Giving percentages to 0.5% is false precision. I doubt anyone is the world is 100% one race (I don't think race is well defined enough, for a start), so the chances of anyone being 50/50 between two races is pretty much 0. It's much better just to state the approximate races of his ancestors and let the reader decide how to interpret it. I don't think it is really original research though, it's just misrepresentation of verifiable facts. --Tango 16:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, as a recent channel 4 show indicated (anyone remember the one I'm on about - they genetically tested various people), even if you know your family tree back - 6 or 7 generations, your ethnic mix is far more complex than that. It's a nonsense to come up with such numbers. --Fredrick day 16:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

To Tango, it is original research as he is taking the vague descriptions of the persons racial heritage and drawing his own conclusions from them - namely the figures. -Localzuk 19:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

There was no intention to interpret the facts. The editor sincerely thought that was what the sources said, and was simply representing those facts incorrectly. It was bad research (which is excusable - being able to fix people's mistakes is what makes wikis so great), not original research. --Tango 00:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify - I was not saying that Jews aren't white (although in the English-speaking Caribbean Portuguese weren't "real white", which is why they tended to intermarry with the light-skinned mixed lower middle class, rather than the white upper class descendent from the plantocracy or the upper middle class originating from the English civil servants). I'm saying that Portuguese Jews were expelled almost 500 years ago, and that after being in the Caribbean for 500 years a lot of them would have intermarried. With respect to "mixed black and white", this means just that, mixed. In the English-speaking Caribbean we have families who have been mixed for 200 years, and have continued to marry mixed people. They had their origins not only in slavery, but also in the "poor whites" (mostly Scots and Irish indentured labourers who were sent to the Caribbean in the 1600s and 1700s (see redlegs for the Bajans), who often intermarried with the mixed lower middle class). So to say someone is "mixed black and white" says nothing about the proportion of each race; there is no reason to take it as "half and half". Guettarda 19:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Siokan

This user is totally denied the cleanup in the few articles, Special:Contributions/Siokan. Few days ago, i make the cleanup in few articles for Asian football competitions with the appropriate Manuel of Style. However, in this days, this user are reverted my cleanup with unapproprate reason "degrading a page" without remark my cleanup editing. With the account just create in this New Year, i believe that he is not read the Manuel of Style of Misplaced Pages and even not browse any examples as references to editing he articles, while like to edit with his style. I hope admin can resolve this problem. Thank you.

I having talk to him regarding my cleanup editing, he seems arrogantly denied it and not accepting my cleanup. --Aleenf1 16:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll have a word with him. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Again, the work was reverted back to old version. However, this time is from Special:Contributions/210.253.171.2. I suspect it is a same user to do it. Please help me again. And i won't revert back to cleanup version until problem resolve. Thank you. --Aleenf1 05:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Requesting block

Apparently administrator intervention against vandalism only deals with simple vandalism, so I'll report this here (I was never told where to report it). DCarltonsm (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (earlier 71.247.255.190 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)) continues to add unsourced but possibly-true material and pure speculation (see Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive180#What to do about repeated addition of unsourced and speculative information? for details). Can someone take care of this? Thank you. --NE2 19:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Just thought I'd point out that Mr. Darcy has warned the user here. -Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 11:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I had already warned him several times on User talk:71.247.255.190, including once with the "approved warning template". --NE2 13:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

He did it again (on R68 (New York City Subway car)). What am I to do? --NE2 23:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:POINT and WP:NPOV problems at Brown people and White people

I am having trouble with two editors (LSLM (talk · contribs) and SqueakBox (talk · contribs)) who continue to edit from non-neutral points of view as their discussion page comments have stated here and here. I had previously brought up the subject of SqueakBox's poor approach to the Brown people article here. I have reached my limit of reversions allowed and discussion has been like talking to a wall as attempts at discussion and compromise have fallen on closed ears in both articles. I'm unsure exactly what to do next. I feel like both are attempting to make a WP:POINT by adding PoV statements and/or remove useful lead summary statements (that are detailed within the actual article) under the guise of being "unsourced", simply because they have both stated that the articles represent racism and ignore their historical usage (or even current usage in some cultures/places). Any help would be appreciated. I may not have handled everything as appropriately as possible, but I have tried to point out in numerous ways that their edits fail multiple WP policies. Thanks. ju66l3r 21:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

SqueakBox (talk · contribs) has moved on to claiming other editors are "...filling it (the article) with ridiculous fringe ideas..." , which violates WP:AGF. At the same time LSLM (talk · contribs) is also adding insults like Some users here who like to classify people in colors just try and ignore that basic fact. . The talk page is rife with these two editors talking past my attempts to discuss the actual article and the content in it (including a complete diatribe with links on how parts of the world hate Americans) and only want to see the article as a racist rant (which it has nothing to do with). Am I being unreasonable here? ju66l3r 00:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, SqueakBox 23:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I dont know what this is doing here, nor was I informed. This editor claims any criticisms of his work such as inserting POV and OR is a criticism of him. The article has been criticised as a rascist rant because that is what some editors believe it is, besides it being OR. This entry by Ju strikes me as being from an editor who cant cope with the frustration of editing and who goes behind the backs of other editors, coming here for absolutely no reason than trying to drum up support for his rather extreme POV. Its Ju who, if you check, engages in attacks and doesnt discuss content, SqueakBox 23:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

LSLM (talk · contribs) has already had another entry here which wasnt responded.

What does no answer mean? No action required? Admin shortage? Lazy admins? Lukas19 19:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps indeed no admin action required. Dont know why Ju links me to white people which I have never edited but it says a lot about the quality of his report, SqueakBox 19:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The title summarizes 2 policy violations at 2 articles (you and one article, and the other editor at both articles). Nothing in my text above claims that you are a problem on the White people article. Please stop with the straw men. ju66l3r 21:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It implies it. Please stop insulting me by calling me a straw man. Where I live this is a deadly insult and I ask you not to and you continue insulting me like this, SqueakBox 23:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Admin note. I've blocked User:SqueakBox for one week for violating his personal attack parole in relation to this report at WP:AE

3 revert rule violation

This user: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Ju66l3r

Has violated the 3 revert rule in the White people article. Veritas et Severitas 22:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It appears you did too. Neither of you revert again, and neither of you will be blocked. Yuser31415 22:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Page has now been protected. Trebor 22:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I have protected the article page and served warnings to both editors to discuss first (well, it's more of like they have no choice but to discuss on the talk page). --physicq (c) 22:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The proper place to report such activity is at WP:AN/3. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

...Though it might be rejected out of hand due to the circumstances surrounding the edit-warring. Oh well, all's well that ends well. --physicq (c) 22:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Good thing it was brought here (WP:KETTLE comes to mind, since both editors violated). Never mind. Yuser31415 23:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that I was not out-right reverting the content of that page. I also made an attempt to incorporate their edit in a more appropriate place and in a more appropriate way in an effort to compromise and was told that it "wasn't convincing" (whatever that meant) and was reverted again. If their edit was B and the page was at state A, then I went B->A, B->A, Compromise text, B->C. I will have to review 3RR but I felt that because I had introduced a new version that a revert to that version was not in the spirit of the rule since I was working towards compromise on this issue and they were simply ignoring my efforts and reverting to make a point. ju66l3r 23:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Generally, 3RR is interpreted very strictly. The 3 reverts is an absolute limit. Even 2 partial reverts can be enough to get you a block in some circumstances. Edit warring, however nicely done, is still edit warring. It's best to just go to the talk page, and if that doesn't help, request backup. --Tango 00:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I recognized that I was reaching a problem situation. I went to the talk page and was ignored, even after drafting compromise text in the article. So I did come here to request help (please see the AN/I section just above this one). ju66l3r 00:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This page is not part of the dispute resolution process, it's for getting the attention of admins. Admins exist to do chores, not to make judgements about content. --Tango 11:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

3RR doesn't apply to vandalism, but unless you are completely sure the other user's edits are being made solely to deface Misplaced Pages, don't revert more than three times. Cheers! Yuser31415 00:37, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Sarenne

• Sarenne (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been warned more then 4 times and has continued to disrupt articles on Misplaced Pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Planetary Chaos (talk • contribs) 23:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Those warnings are all from you over an issue that is not vandalism, and on which there is a live discussion. Please settle your disputes through talk page discussions. | Mr. Darcy talk 23:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Put shortly for others reading this: The issue here is using SI prefixes in articles where our sources quantify numbers using binary prefixes. I believe that WP:NPOV and WP:V will always override MOS guidelines. The MOS says that converting from binary to SI in articles fine, but I'm of the opinion that doing so where our sources are explicit in using another format is decidedly not fine. Wikipedians don't usually have the leeway to restate what a reliable source says with different units of measure, just because some people prefer that measurement. Apple (and publications who report on them) almost never use SI... as a result, neither should we.

Sarenne's edits have now been reverted by no less than five different established editors, and yet this single-purpose account still insists on pushing changes on a wide number of articles (though limited in scope almost exclusively to Apple consumer hardware articles). They're claiming "consensus" by pointing to a discussion from a year and a half ago, but if this many editors are reverting their changes, then this mission of theirs needs to be put on hold, and discussions need to happen BEFORE wide-ranging changes are made.

Sarenne's talk page is not the appropriate venue for this discussion. I've started a discussion on the issue of SI prefixes here, and I hope people with an interest will participate. -/- Warren 00:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Warren, that seems like a reasonable course of action. | Mr. Darcy talk 00:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Impersonation of Hamsacharya dan redux

The user previously impersonating Hamsacharya dan as Hamsacharya duh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) is back, this time as Senior Hamsacharya (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log). He's also incompletely nominated Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for deletion. I think this article has survived AfD twice. Either the nomination should be reversed as done by an impersonator, or completed. Up to the admin answering this, I guess. A Ramachandran 00:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to report this to Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User names as a problem username, which doesn't fully address the problems you've noted, but may jumpstart the process of getting the account blocked. -- John Broughton | 02:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. You may also want to take a look at Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/NoToFrauds, as there's a history behind this... A Ramachandran 02:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Trouble on Uncyclopedia

Pardon my inexperience, but I don't know where to put this. It's a little more controversial than your standard page protection issue, so I'm putting it here. Uncyclopedia just went through two AFDs in one day. Both were speedy kept, and several people ahve been advocating a re-write due to poor sourcing (very little third-party references) and such. So I get started on it, and pschemp (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) reverts me twice without so much as an edit summary. When I revert back and ask her about it on her talk page, she protects it, then reverts to her preferred version again. Now she's saying I'm "vandalizing" - yeah right. Can someone unprotect the page, due to her protecting it over a content dispute, so editing can resume? Milto LOL pia 01:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

pschemp made one error, that much is clear. Protecting the page is inappropriate when simply blocking you stops you. I can't comment on the rest. --Deskana (request backup) 01:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Right, removing tongue in cheek humor from an encyclopedia article is VANDALISM all right. It's definitely worth a mention that the site's potato mascot did not found the website. Milto LOL pia 01:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I never made any comment on anything you did. I simply said that really, pschemp should have blocked you rather than protected the page. Whether that block/page protection is appropriate is something I didn't comment on. I'm not well versed enough in the situation to understand it. --Deskana (request backup) 01:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Sorry. Milto LOL pia 02:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

pschemp will also be a bit tiffed when she sees some of your commentary.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Fixed, my bad. Milto LOL pia 01:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, I believe she protected it because you added {{unreferenced}} repeatedly, when there are nearly 3 dozen in-line citations, and a citation referencing the "content free" portion (from what I can see).—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Right, but we're currently discussing the validity of those cites, such as citing Uncyclopedia's "content-free" article as evidence of it being such, when it clearly says so on the Main Page; a link to an unhelpful Uncyclopedia page is not a good cite. Many other cites are self-references to Wikimedia or not third-party sources. ANd she was revert warring over other stuff too, without so much as a glance at the talk page, where all this was being discussed. Milto LOL pia 02:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Meh, my sex is irrelevent. Repeat insertions of tag that is false = vandalsim. I did you a favor Miltopia, by not allowing you to get to 3RR. pschemp | talk 02:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You're doing me a favor by hindering me from improving a poorly sourced page, revert warring me with no edit summaries, calling me a vandal, ignroing the talk page, and wildly assuming bad faith? No, you are protecting a page that you are in a content dispute with after boorish edit warring. Milto LOL pia 02:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism? O rly?

I don't see any vandalism here. Just some cleaning up of highly unencyclopedic tongue-in-cheek humor and confusing templates, replacing them with links. Where is the vandalism? Milto LOL pia 02:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Adding {{unreferenced}} falsely = vandalsim (especially when previously asked to not do it by Sean Black). pschemp | talk 02:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, knock it off with the running around in circles. I've said several times that it was poorly sourced and that it was being discussed on the talk page, and every time you simply say "SORRY YOU WERE ASKED NOT TO ADD IT". There was a good deal of talk page discussion that you completely ignored. Clearly my edits were in good faith, and I don't need your or Sean Black's permission to point out that article's shortcomings. Milto LOL pia 02:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• To be honest, that article does require a tag. It's not {{unreferenced}}, but it is either {{Self-published}} or {{Onesource}}. Titoxd 02:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I found that out, but it ws already protected, so I added it to the talk page instead so the people who actually pay attention to that will see the problem. Milto LOL pia 02:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Can we agree to unprotect the article? I don't see it as a sin to have been using the wrong tag by mistake, and the diffs I've seen from Miltopia are well in keeping with policies like Misplaced Pages:Avoid self-references. But I don't want anyone to spark a wheel war. Grandmasterka 02:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Well, users are requesting uprotection at Talk:Uncyclopedia already. I don't see the horrible harm that required protection to begin with either. Titoxd 02:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

If Miltopia agrees to get consensus for his edits first (which other users didn't agree with) sure. But repeated insertions of something people in the page didn't agree with is not cool. pschemp | talk 02:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I don't think adding the wrong tag is vandalism. Should he have added the right tag to begin with? Sure. Does he have a point about the quality of the references? Yes. This isn't a content dispute either, so there isn't any point to the protection. Titoxd 02:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I see no evidence of Miltopia agreeing to work to get consensus for his changes. If he wants to change from vandalism to adding content, he needs to do that. pschemp | talk 02:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't need consensus for initial edits in the least - if that's your only problem, you have nothing to worry about. Your accusations of "vandalism" are starting to sound hysterical - clearly we have a consensus that the article needs to be unprotected and tagged, but you refuse because you want me to do it on your terms. Let's just cut the crap and get to work on the article already instead of playing out this foolish battle of wills. Milto LOL pia 02:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You do need consensus after people repeated revert you. Which is what happened. pschemp | talk 02:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't comment on much that's going on here, but there's one point about which I have to say something. Acting against consensus is not, in itself, vandalism. Adding a tag that one believes to be appropriate is certainly not vandalism. That's true, even if the one adding the tag is completely misguided, or simply wrong.

Vandalism means making edits in a deliberate effort to make Misplaced Pages worse. Doing something that you believe to be appropriate is not an attempt to make Misplaced Pages worse; it's a good faith edit. -GTBacchus 21:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Using administrative tools in a content dispute isn't cool. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 02:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll unprotect if Miltopia agrees to get consensus for his changes first. What you don't get is that I could care less about the content. I'm not involved in a content dispute, I reverted vandalism. pschemp | talk 02:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I had a number of good-faith, sensible edits that you were reverting without comment. Those were content edits. So far your only characterization of it as "vandalism" is because I was "asked not to add the tag". It's pretty obvious that you're the only one who thinks I was vandalizing. Milto LOL pia 02:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You made repeat insertions of something you didn't have consensus for. Get consensus first. I personally don't care what the content is, i care that you work with the other editors on the page. pschemp | talk 02:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The only thing there was a disagreement on (as in, not blind "vandalism" reverts) is the tag. We now have a consensus for a different tag. There is no problem. Milto LOL pia 02:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Where? pschemp | talk 02:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Um, right here. Milto LOL pia 02:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

What, you and Tito? You need to discuss that on the talk page of the actual article. That's where we get consensus about articles. pschemp | talk 02:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

"..I agree with your suggestion that any major changes can profitably be discussed here on the talkpage before being implemented unilaterally." - Newyorkbrad. Sigh. Miltopia, don't do anything reckless, discuss changes beforehand. Pschemp, remove the protection, it is inappropriate. Titoxd 02:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• I say again: Using admin tools in a content dispute is NOT cool. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 02:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

That's nice. It wasn't a content dispute. pschemp | talk 02:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It might b e helpful if you could add something to the discussion other than "NO U". THe only people who "reverted me" used sysop tools to prevent my changes - Sean Blac via rollback, and you via protection. If it wasn't a content dispute, where's the "disagreement" coming from? No one else reverted me. Milto LOL pia 02:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• (edit conflicts) We shouldn't need "consensus" to include something that two editors disagree with and which resulted in full protection by an involved admin during a content dispute. This is a wiki. Nevertheless, I've voiced my opinion on the talk page. Grandmasterka 02:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I've unprotected. Now, how hard is it to get consensus about contested edits? pschemp | talk 02:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Nothing to see here anymore, move on... Titoxd 03:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! ^_^ Milto LOL pia 03:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

UTFP (Use the fine talk page) though, or else! :-P --Kim Bruning 22:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Rollback/Popups/Whatever

So, does the 3RR apply to blind reverts via popups or rollback? I just got another revert via popup with no edit summary. I think it's stupid that the only one of the four of us reverting who has managed to use the talk page and use edit summaries would be blocked for 3RR for re-reverting. Milto LOL pia 03:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

3RR applies to everything but vandalism. Looks like someone else thinks your edits are controversial. Interesting. pschemp | talk 03:22, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks like they also weren't considerate enough to use an edit summary or the talk page, choosing instead to blindly edit war. Depressing. Milto LOL pia 03:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

3RR does not apply to reverting policy violations. And even if it did, I would choose to Ignore All Rules in those cases. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 03:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Miltopia Gaming the system?

I'd like some feedback on this as I feel this is a case of a user walking a very fine line. Here I warned Miltopia about 3RRing on Uncyclopedia. And, he responded so obviously read my warning. His first three reversions 1 2 and 3 were the addition of the {{unsourced}} tag (and all within the space of 20 minutes). One hour after my warning he went back and added the {{reliablesources}} tag 4. Does this seem like a blatant case of gaming the system to anyone else? No action has been taken at this time Glen 04:00, January 22, 2007 (UTC)

You don't seem to be the only one to think so . Editors on the page have expressed that the tag should remain deleted, so I wouldn't block this time, but if he does it again after all this mess...pschemp | talk 04:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I misunderstood the rule and have stopped editing. We're done here. Milto LOL pia 04:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I also wasn't the one to re-insert the tag. You have Tbeatty to thank for that. Milto LOL pia 04:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Minor update - pschemp is now continuing to revert on the page, despite "not caring about the content" and then refusing discussion on her talk page or the article's talk page. I wonder what else this could be than gaming the system to take advantage of my 3RR paralysis. Milto LOL pia 16:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• I'll ping an uninvolved administrator or three to look into this. Administrative tools should not be used it a content dispute. period. It's damaging, and it's unwiki. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 18:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I've already gone over, and pschemp has already reverted me. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 20:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

section header

Why do we tolerate disruptive influences from Encyclopedia Dramatica like Badlydrawnjeff and Miltopia? Hipocrite - «Talk» 04:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Oops, neither of us are sysops. Milto LOL pia 05:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • He can ban me as an "ED sysop troll" if that'll satisfy his appetite...-DESU 05:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• I don't know. Why do we tolerate people randomly calling Badlydrawnjeff a disruptive influence? Maybe we should make everyone disclose their IP, and then infiltrate ED so we can checkuser the accounts there and then block everyone who also edits here. After all, being on ED automatically makes someone disruptive! -Amark moo! 05:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll admit I'm no saint, but BDJ does more for Misplaced Pages than most of the people who harass him. Er, he also hasn't edited ED in almost a year.

Oh look, ED is being brought up again by the same people who claim ED editors are all here to troll... Milto LOL pia 05:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• At what point is someone going to step in here? --badlydrawnjeff talk 05:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • When someone who can actually do something about it shows up. I'll continue making fun of the idea that all ED editors are trolls until that happens, if you don't mind me doing so.
  • Maybe we should trick people who we don't like into registering an ED account so that they automatically become a disruptive influence? -Amark moo! 05:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • I'd rather not. I'm having a hard enough time distancing myself as is. --badlydrawnjeff talk 05:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • There's a much easier way to cause disruption. Just keep nagging the administrators to ban some people. Oops. --physicq (c) 05:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
      • As an uninvolved reader of these boards, I've rarely seen Hipocrite post something without bile in his throat. It's beginning to wear thin. - Merzbow 07:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
        • Yes, but are his main space edits constructive? BenBurch 07:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
          • It's starting to come to the point where it doesn't matter. Creating a negative atmosphere on any namespace in Misplaced Pages is a Bad Thing. We really shouldn't encourage it. Deny recognition and move on, I'd say. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 08:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
            • Besides, are they? The vast majority of his edits are provoking fights and worsening disputes. Milto LOL pia 09:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Hipocrite is a troll. We get it. Really, really. I don't care. Just ignore him, and he'll get bored or blocked. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 17:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

That's not helpful in the least.--MONGO 17:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

And his statements are? I'm curious as to why you're defending him here. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You assume bad faith on my part and all I am trying to do is put out a fire.--MONGO 17:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not assuming bad faith at all, I simply don't understand why you're defending him. You're not putting out a fire when you're merely starting another one in its place. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

In any case, some fo the fervor has died down. If he's so eager to get away from me that he'll bar communication on his talk page, maybe this can just blow over. Which would be best for everyone involved. Milto LOL pia 17:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• That's what I was getting at. This is, however, apparently "unhelpful". I wonder who this must be "unhelpful" to, since it seems like it would be pretty damn helpful to the Wiki to block and ignore a disruptive editor. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 18:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Just so everyone is clear - if you had buttons, you would indef block me? Hipocrite - «Talk» 18:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• It does not matter, as I do not. I would fully endorse someone blocking you for disruption, however. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 18:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This seems to be at odds with your normal approach of asking us all to AGF with regard to editors like Ilena? Have you seen the attack page on ED? I'm not defending hipocrites actions, his blunt swearing is definitely a problem, he is too easily baited and i think he also admits this. Where i draw the line is your comment " it would be pretty damn helpful to the Wiki to block and ignore a disruptive editor" since he is a lot more produtive than other editors whom you give a long leash of good faith. David D. (Talk) 19:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Well it's funny you call him productive, since you're the first person I know that has used the words productive in the same sentence as his name. If we're dealing with attack blogs, it's worth mentioning that I have at least fifty attack blogs you there solely dedicated to attacking my person, and you don't see me getting angry about it (actually, I find how much of a limb these guys go out on most of the time quite funny). For a long time now Hipocrite's been testing the community's patience, much longer than Ilena, and my patience with him is simply worn threadbare. I think, given how I have been with Ilena and others in the past and currently, it would speak somewhat for how much of a problem this is, or at least how much of a problem I think it is. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 20:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

"I have at least fifty attack blogs", not sure what you mean by this?

I have had my fair share of disagreements with hipocrite but i defend that he is productive. If you really need diff's to back this up I'll start digging but i don't think it is necessary. Note, i'm not defending his behaviour, rather his productivity. Hopefully these issues will resolve themselves such that the antagonists here can avoid each other. I have also found myself supporting BDJ in the past, so i agree with Steve's summary below. David D. (Talk) 21:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You seemed to conjecture that a single attack page justified his behaviour. If that were the case, I have fifty odd attack blogs that I'm sure would amount to one heck of a justified rampage :) Really though, off-wiki stuff stays off-wiki. A fundamental lack of the ability to do this is exactly why Ilena has issues. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 23:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• I've always found Jeff and Hipocrite useful, thoughtful contributors who want the best for Misplaced Pages so I'm troubled by this thread. Both have a tendency to fight their corner a little over-zealously, both wear their hearts on their sleeves, but I'm not sure I'd like Misplaced Pages without either of them. But seriously, the lot of you, dispute resolution is over there. Hipocrite, do you want to tone the section header down? Steve block Talk 21:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Meh, what is this crap? There are ED trolls, Jeff is not one of them. If you guys haven't realised yet that he is here to build a great encyclopaedia (for just one of the many, many possible values of "great" in the minds of the Misplaced Pages community) then I guess I'm not going to persuade you, but the "sport" of Jeff-bashing really really ought to stop. He has chosen between "them" and "us", and he chose us. Give the guy a break why don't you? Guy (Help!) 22:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Persistent ill will should not be tolerated

Please review the following, which is like Sidaway+1: flagrant trolling, "totally fucking wrong", more incivility, "fucking SPAs", "Don't piss on me and tell it's raining",

Look beyond their regular contribs to filter by specific name space. Makes almost no positive contribution to the real encyclopedia, just tries to WP:OWN the Ref Desk and then trolls Misplaced Pages space and user talk pages incessently. Recommend community ban from Ref Desk which is what seems to work him into a lather all by itself to protect a once contributing editor who has devolved sadly :(. BobDjurdjevick 14:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, User:rootology. Hipocrite - «Talk» 14:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I see that Sir Nick has already blocked BobDjurdjevick as a single-purpose account created to harass Hipocrite; otherwise I would have done so myself.

That said, Hipocrite is frequently and gratuitously incivil in his interactions with other editors. This sort of comment about another good-faith contributor to Misplaced Pages is out of line. To be fair, Hipocrite has been less rude that usual recently, and he has also been the victim of persistent, obnoxious trolling. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

That's sort of the least of the verbal abuse he generally offers. He seems much more interested in just stirring up unpleasantry than really contributing. To be fair, I stir up a fair bit myself, but it's generally because of the controversial nature of my edits or people's unwillingness to put aside melodramatic prejudice, not because I hang around Misplaced Pages calling people names. Milto LOL pia 15:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I blocked BobD-whateveritis. However, Hipocrite's comments have been incivil and disruptive. Be prepared for a block, if this kind of behaviour does not cease. — Nearly Headless Nick 15:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe, maybe not. In this case it looks like a case of WP:SPADE. Cindery is vexatious in the extreme. Guy (Help!) 23:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

One wonderes what the purpose and goal of this emergent pile on is. If it was to tell me to me nicer to people, how does responding to a Rootology and Miltopia (Miltopia is the prime contributor to the Encyclopedia Dramatica attack page about me) generated hatefest in any way convince me that you have my best interests at heart? It dosen't. You haven't. Consider. Hipocrite - «Talk» 16:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Here's a free tip - stop including me in your little attacks. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hipocrite, every time we've crossed paths, it's been you confronting/complaining me. This "emergent pile on" itself is a result of another such thread started by you. How can you label this as harassment? People are just replying to what you started. Milto LOL pia 16:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Tu quoque, anyone? It's really a fallacy, you know. Not the best kind of argument to make. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 17:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Badlydrawn, it would realy help if you didn't follow Hipocrite to AFDs. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 18:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't. When something on my watchlist is AfD'd, I thnk I'm within my rights to comment on it. --badlydrawnjeff talk 19:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You had an article article on your watchlist 6 hours after it had been created and you didn't know enough about the subject to know it was a penname? I'll take your word for it. But, in the future, you might help us all rest easier if you would refrain from situations that might create the illusion of stalking & harassment. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 21:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I tend to watchlist redlinks that I want to create. I have a number of Voice contributors that I'm waiting on. I don't think I need to hold abck my edits because someone wants to be disruptive toward me. You want to help us all rest easier? Do something about Hipocrite. --badlydrawnjeff talk 23:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Uh huh. After seeing your performance at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Jane Dark, I'd say you need a reading of WP:KETTLE before demanding that admins "do something" to help "us all". --Calton | Talk 23:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Many of us love Uncyclopedia, but we do need to apply encyclopedic standards to the uncyclopedia article in the end, I suppose. Can we stay cool too? :-) --Kim Bruning 21:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Yeah. Some people seem to be taking Misplaced Pages a shade too seriously. Guy (Help!) 23:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Help me!!

I tagged an article for a speedy delete. Mike_Gaun and an editor of the page. This wikipedian User:Ncole vandalized my talk page and removed ALL of my tags on the Mike_Gaun page. In my mind, this requires and immediate ban. The article Mike_Gaun is a memorial not wiki content. Admin needed! Thx --Zrulli 02:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Calmness, calmness. No, it doesn't require an immediate ban (although continuing behavior of the same type might result in a block, which is notably different from a ban). The page has been deleted. Don't worry. Yuser31415 04:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

"United Front Against Deletion"

User:Criscokoenig seems to be quite intent on making a WP:POINT, after his autobiography was flagged for deletion. See , , and many other similar edits. Seraphimblade 03:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It appears that this user has just been blocked for 24 hours. -- moe.RON 03:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

He was blocked for 24 hours only? I would have indef-blocked as a vandalism-only account. --physicq (c) 03:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Changed the block to indefinite. I was wondering that myself - 24 hours seems way too lenient in this case, especially as the user in question has no good-faith edits aside from creating the page that ended up getting deleted. --Coredesat 03:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I blocked 24h to stop his spree, but wanted to scroll through the contribs before an indef-block to make sure there weren't legit edits in there. If we're comfortable that this isn't a regular editor who just went off his rocker, I have no objection to the indef. | Mr. Darcy talk 03:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I just got an e-mail from the user claiming that his original intent was not to vandalize (but to edit Will & Grace-related and other articles), and he agrees with the 24-hour block and not the indefinite one. I'm going to AGF and reduce his block to the 24 hours. His edits should be monitored when he returns. --Coredesat 04:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Sure, why not. But one chance only. --physicq (c) 04:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit war and likely sockpuppetry at Shinigami (Bleach)

An edit war has been ongoing between 67.186.73.164 (talk · contribs · count) and Mekryd (talk · contribs · count), both of whom have reverted four times in today. I only chose not to report them at WP:AN3RR because neither had been warned. Now, TrueAnime (talk · contribs · count) is making the exact same reverts as the anonymous, which makes me suspect sockpuppetry. I have reported this here because I'm uncertain exactly what to do in this case: if this is worth taking to Checkuser or if it can be handled without this. Heimstern Läufer 03:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry related to Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Starwood

At a request from an arbitrator, I've run a checkuser that has determined with a high degree of certainty that Ekajati (talk · contribs), A Ramachandran (talk · contribs), and Tunnels_of_Set (talk · contribs) are all the same person. It is suggested based on behavior and the timing of the account creation that these are all the same as the "retired" Hanuman Das (talk · contribs), but that account is too old to check. Please take a look at this and take any necessary actions. Thanks. Dmcdevit·t 03:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

A Ramachandran (talk · contribs) was created 12 hours after Hanuman_Das "retired". Here is an analysis from wannabe-kate's tool, of their editing patterns, with common articles edited, labelled in bold

A Ramachandran article edits:21 Mantra, 21 Bharatanatyam, 19 James Branch Cabell, 18 Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath, 18 Shiva, 15 List of vacuum tubes, 15 Yoga, 15 Brian Cutillo, 10 Bön, 10 Tantra, 10 Spirituality, 9 Dr. MGR-Janaki College of Arts and Science for Women, 9 M. G. Ramachandran, 9 Lu Sheng-yen, 9 Sahaja Yoga

A Ramachandran article talk edits:13 Michael Roach, 6 Bharatanatyam, 2 Michael Roach (disambiguation), 2 Tibetan Buddhism, 2 Dharmic religions

Hanuman Das article edits: 144 Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath, 100 Tantra, 100 Nath, 67 Thelema, 52 Gurunath, 47 Shri Gurudev Mahendranath, 44 Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, 39 Dattatreya ,38 Mahavatar Babaji, 32 Lu Sheng-yen ,29 Obligations in Freemasonry, 29 Haidakhan Babaji, 26 Neem Karoli Baba, 25 Barbelo, 25 Hermeticism

Hanuman Das article talk edits: 188 Yogiraj Gurunath Siddhanath, 46 Gurunath, 38 Nath, 33 Mahavatar Babaji, 26 Jahbulon, 22 Michael Roach, 20 Thelema, 13 Hermeticism, 13 Tantra, 13 Stella Matutina, 13 Satguru, 13 Sidhoji Rao Shitole, 12 Starwood Festival, 12 Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn 11, Tantra/Archive 1

What sticks out, apart from from the general overlap, is the editing to Lu Sheng-yen. In the last year, only five registered users (excluding vandals, single purpose accounts, vandal reverts, and typo fixing) have edited this article. Of these, three of them are Hanuman_Das, Ekajati and 999, all parties to the Starwood case, all of whom are on one side of the fence. Similarly a look at Michael Roach shows the same thing, very few people edited this article, so both articles are likely to be obscure, and a new user appearing, immediately after the retirement of another, editing with the same viewpoint, editing on a similar set of articles, especially two common articles which are almost inactive. So all the socks have been blocked and the owner also blocked. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 04:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Ramachandran, I have a hard time believing. I've had a few interactions with him, and he seemed like any other new user. He didn't have any people complaining to his talk page, other than one friviolous complaint about a NPA warning (which was most certainly deserved). How high is this degree of certainty? -Amark moo! 04:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if they are related, but you might want to check Young Skywalker (talk · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) as well. In reference to this AfD which was nominated by Tunnels_of_Set (talk · contribs). Contrib history shows this user submitting articles for deletion by the sixth edit and using proper wikipedia nomenclature. Seems kinda' strange, but maybe it is a coincidence. Even weirder is the overlap in the userpage content and theme of Tunnels_of_Set (talk · contribs) and Frater Xyzzy (talk · contribs) - both of their userpages had primarily kaballah content, and edited occult articles. - WeniWidiWiki 05:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

There's something not right here about Hanuman Das being a sock of Ekajati. A little poking around shows that:

1. Hanuman Das has been on Misplaced Pages quite a bit longer than Ekajati
2. Blnguyen is also one of the five regular editors of Lu Sheng-yen and it looks like he may have had a dispute with Hanuman Das
3. There are a number of notes from Hanuman Das on Ekajati's talk page asking her to help him with Buddhist topics. One is a note thanking her for helping with Lu Sheng-yen. I don't think their both editing that article can be taken to mean anything, if there is actually no confirming checkuser.

Just my 2 cents. 999 (Talk) 07:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing. I don't see any report of abusive conduct on either of the other two socks. What did they do? The tag says they committed "abuse, libel, or ban evasion." It is my understanding that even if they are socks, they have to commit an abuse to warrant being blocked. My opinion is this: I don't believe that Tunnels of Set is Ekajati at all. The articles he edited are not at all the sort she edited. A Ramachandran is more believable, but I don't see any misbehavior on his part. And for the reasons I've given above, I don't think Hanuman Das and Ekajati are the same user at all. They collaborated, yes, and the evidence of that is on their talk pages. 999 (Talk) 07:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) I have had a long conflict with several parties mentioned above. 999 posted an ANI complaint against me on August 21. . User:999 posted his first comment on my talk page the same day... Since then I have been consistently harassed and stalked by User:999, User:Ekajati, User:Hanuman Das. It was recently explained to me by User:Ars Scriptor that they were able to do this by using User Contributions. There was one day when Hanuman Das stalked me to 39 articles. Recently two new users posted on my page within their first several edits, neither having any connection with me other than each accidently ran across the Starwood Arbitration:: User: Tunnels of Set who removed edits from my user page in addition, and User:Jefferson Anderson who posted personal attacks on me on his user page (one was removed at the suggestion of another editor) and another was removed by another editor using an IP. This all may not be related. Sincerely, Mattisse 16:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The IP edit was me, not logged in at the time. --Salix alba (talk) 19:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Addendum - There were several instances when 999, Ekajati, and Hanuman Das left notes about me or my alleged sockpuppet Timmy12 on each other's pages alerting each other about information they aready knew about. Therefore I interpreted those posting about me and Timmy12 to be for appearance only. Mattisse 17:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not convinced by Ekajati and Hanuman Das being socks of each other. This edit shows a clear differences between the two. Ekajati has denined the allegations , which I find convincing. A Ramachandran asked to be unblocked with the comment "I don't understand, please discuss" .

All users do share interests in spiritual matters, Tunnels of Set is clearly interested in the Aleister Crowley and related stuff, the other are more into Yoga and Indian spirtuality. While there is an overlap there is considerable difference in the editing pattern of ToS and the others. Ramachandran had a unique interest in valves which was not shared by any of the other contributors.

Overall I'm quite skepical of sockpuppetetry and I'm not sure the block have really helped the arbitration. --Salix alba (talk) 19:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't see any support for the notion that Hanuman Das and Ekajati are the same person. They have similar intrests, but have engaged in discussions on talk pages for a LONG time, and have mentioned extremely different past histories in these discussions. Both their editing patterns and their use of language differ. Furthermore, the tag stating that the supposed use of socks was for "abuse, libel or ban evasion" seems totally unsupported. And it seems that no attempt was made to allow Ekajati to address these accusations before action was taken. The arbitrator who initiated this has taken what IMO seemed to be a position advocating one side of the Starwood issue, made proposals (unlike the four arbitrators who actually signed in and accepted the position), and has now recused himself. I am very confused about this whole turn of events, the timing within hours of another involved party's call for a ban on me, the pressured withdrawal from Misplaced Pages of two other involved parties, and the fact that NO such action was taken against the proven use of 18 sockpuppets by Mattisse (who comments above). I hope I am mistaken, but there is the appearance of something very wrong. I think Ekajati has been unfairly treated here. Rosencomet 20:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Several points.

• A number of editors have brought up the fact that blocks are warranted for sockpuppetry only if one of the accounts is "abusive" in some way. In my opinion, at the very least, Hanuman Das harassed Mattisse.
• Salix Alba brings up an intersting point in that Ekajati did not endorse the RfC against Mattisse. Indeed, Ekajati did not even edit the the RfC at all, and requested that his/her username be removed from the RfC. Salix Alba interprets this as a difference between Ekajati and Hanuman Das. Hanuman Das and Ekajati otherwise seemed to act in unison, so this is a rather notable fact. However another interpretation might be that a single user wanted to avoid using two accounts in a single RfC, knowing that such an action would most certainly be a violation of policy. Both interpretations are, however, conjecture.
• I assisted Hanuman Das in being unblocked on a previous occassion. I had great misgivings about this. I like to be forgiving. I like to give people second chances. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. And I like to try to work things out with people who have been disruptive. However, after I encouraged the unblocking of Hanuman Das, I became concerned that I was enabling behavior that was disruptive to other editors, even if it was something that I personally could forgive. I helped Hanuman Das out of a indef block once. This time, I fully support an indefinite block (even if there is a chance that the grounds of the block are mistaken.
• I am concerned about the quality of evidence for blocking Ekajati. Although there are good reasons to support the idea that Ekajati and Hanuman Das are the same, I lean toward the "beyond a reasonable doubt" school, (at least in cases that involve a block of more than a day or two) and I'm not sure if that threshold has been met.
• I do note that a common trait between Hanuman Das and Ekajati is a rather incessant nagging about the fact that Mattisse was not given a lengthy block in August for sockpuppetry. (diffs available upon request). I think most editors would have moved on, but Hanuman Das (until his retirement) and Ekajati have not been able to let go of this. I felt that this similarity is worth noting, although I repeat that although I find the Ekajati/Hanuman Das connection plausible, I don't think the evidence meets the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt".

--BostonMA 21:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Sadly, I find this all quite plausible. I think Hanuman Das, plus any of his sockpuppets/sockpuppeteers, should have been blocked indefinitely when s/he made this vicious personal attack. The block for that was insufficient, imho, and s/he then voiced elsewhere the intention to use sockpuppets to violate WP:POINT (which resulted in a longer block). The editing patterns between Hanuman Das and Ekajati are quite similar. Ekajati's intense focus and seeming obsession with sockpuppets in the Matisse case also made me suspect s/he was using sockpuppets, due to the possibility of psychological projection being a factor. ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 01:26, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

New Art Dominique (talk · contribs) sockpuppet

The latest Art Dominique (talk · contribs) sock, who is vandalizing RFCU requests. An RFCU was filed against some folks who AD doesn't like, and when they were proven to not be socks or puppetmasters, he began attempting to re-add more and more to the RFCU (in spite of Essjay telling him that the evidence had already been reviewed). .

The Art Dominique sock insists on trolling this RFCU, re-adding info that has already been checked. .

• Virtual Realities (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 213.216.199.6 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

The "Virtual Realities" is pretty clearly an Art Dominique sock, based on AD naming conventions, the consistency of huge, tedious piles of misinformation, and continuous trolling and stalking of Petri Krohn (talk · contribs), Whiskey (talk · contribs) and Illythr (talk · contribs). TheQuandry 04:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

In lieu of WP:PAIN…

…I would like my fellow administrators' opinions as to the acceptability of the following edits. Am I being a bit too sensitive, or is this a tad over the line?

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_adminship/Jakew&curid=8980070&diff=102367812&oldid=102366949 http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:TipPt&curid=4554553&diff=102366338&oldid=102245504

-- Avi 04:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

He pretty much invited that by saying "So why is it bad that I am this person?" -Amark moo! 04:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, to answer the question, I think that's not really crossing the line. Rude, yes, but not really over the line. -Amark moo! 04:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Calling someone a troll and a "circumfetishist" (learn something new every day) in their AfD isn't very cool in my book. Especially when it's being done based on Google results rather than on-wiki activity. I think it does cross the line into PA territory, but I can sorta see it being interpreted either way. Sorta. —bbatsell ¿? 04:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It's highly questionable if the someone is spotless in terms of on-wiki record. But as some of the opposes on that RfA show, he is not. -Amark moo! 05:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying that he doesn't have the right to bring up off-wiki events; it's up to individual !voters to determine whether that holds any water with them. My main issue is with the uncivil tone with which it is written and the name-calling. —bbatsell ¿? 05:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Revert such edits on sight per policy WP:CIVIL#Removing uncivil comments and warn the user suitably. Yuser31415 05:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I have to say I look askance at critical mentions of the off-wiki activity of fellow editors unless it 1) violates WP:COI and/or WP:AUTO, or 2) involves off-wiki activity specifically designed to disrupt WP (and even there, caution would be advisable). I don't see evidence of Jakew disrupting WP, so the comments would seem to violate WP:CIV, at the very least. IronDuke 05:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Alkivar's unilateral deletion and salting of a draft article

Wow, I am amazed. I am working on a draft in user space, mention it by link Misplaced Pages:Deletion_review#Rusty_trombone, and the next thing I know it is deleted and salted. This is completely uncalled for. Will someone kindly restore the page so I can continue my work on it, get it up to quality and policy, and post it? I'd appreciate it a lot. CyberAnth 04:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

A full reading of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Prairie Muffins might be in order here. — coelacan talk — 04:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Not to mention the fact that once its deleted, recreation of it is forbidden per CSD:G4, particularly when its word for word identical with the page that was deleted from article space. Not to mention making a copy of a page thats about to be deleted via AFD in your userspace is frowned upon. You created the article in userspace on the 7th during the AFD cycle, and made no changes whatsoever until today. You also stated quite clearly you were going against the rules on DRV "Prairie Muffins (preserved here)" ... you dont preserve AFD'd articles in userspace.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 05:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I have a life outside of WP and cannot work on things full-time. Sure, I used "preserved" there, but in its AfD page I said I was going to be working on it and please not to salt it. The fact is that what was deleted was a draft. CyberAnth 05:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:NOT#WEBSPACE has nothing to do with it. Does this mean all my drafts, e.g., User:CyberAnth/Drafts/Bonny_Hicks, and my own Sandbox is to be deleted as well? Everyone's drafts? CyberAnth 05:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

A Sandbox is acceptable unless abused (hate speech, personal attacks, etc...) ... as for Bonny Hicks, she has a valid article in article space and has not faced a valid AFD and been deemed a delete. If she had failed an afd then no she wouldnt belong in your userspace, not until you'd gotten permission via WP:DRV to recreate it.  ALKIVAR™ ☢ 05:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Um... no. DRV doesn't give permission to recreate, it gives permission to undelete the prior version, or unsalt. If you're recreating a substantially different article, DRV is irrelevant. -Amark moo! 05:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but the reason Bonny Hicks is there is because I saved it from an AfD. As for Prairie Muffins, you deleted my draft article I was in process of working on. I'd like the information back. This is ridiculous. I'd like to continue working on it to make it a much better article. Moreover, you salted this unilaterally. Do you come along after the fact and salt every AfD'ed article? If not, then why this one? Can you point me to the policy that gives you the authority to do what you have done? If not, admit the mistake, undelete it, and let's all move on to actually building an encyclopedia instead of this ridiculous stuff. CyberAnth 05:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Was this the recreation of a deleted article, or an entirely new article? Can't sleep, clown will eat me 05:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Neither, it was a userfied version of a deleted article, something often done to help bring articles that fail policy up to snuff for possible reintroduction. --badlydrawnjeff talk 05:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

When the possibility of improving the article actually exists, yes. Cyberanth actually voted for the deletion of the article, admitting it could not be reliably sourced. The userfication was just sitting around on Misplaced Pages, picking up google pigeonrank. Cyberanth admitted WP:COI during the AFD, so it is probably impossible for this user to write this article. — coelacan talk — 05:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I voted it be deleted because it at the time did not meet WP policies but I did not say it could not be made meet them and I stated I was moving it to userspace where I could work on it. And - wow, oh, wow!! - when does writing a book on a subject, you know, expertise, equate to a conflict of interest??? Is that how WP really works? CyberAnth 05:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I read the AFD again. You said nothing about wanting to fix up the article. You just said you wanted it to be in userspace, and you did that marvelously well, having not touched it once yet. And yes, if you are writing a book on the subject, that's on a dangerous line with COI, and I'd watch out for WP:NOR too. — coelacan talk — 06:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Does the evidence suggest I have ever even once done that, Badlydrawnjeff, or are you assuming bad faith here? In point of fact, the evidence says I place articles on user space, (e.g., another example here), get them up to par, and place them into WP as an article, and then continue to work on changes in my userspace. This was an article, like Bonny Hicks, that was in the middle of an AfD that I KNEW could make a good article given work. Please undelete it so I can work on it. CyberAnth 05:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• I feel this issue is not as cut and dry as either side would make it. Surely a version of an article userified by an admin so a user could improve it is a legitimate practice - many sysops do this as a compromise with CSDs. However, there are of course concerns that we are not a free webost. Some leniency can be given if the user is truly improving an article in such a way, however, I see no great reason for it not to be deleted. However, salting is completely unneccesary and should be undone. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 05:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • In any event, I'd like the information back. CyberAnth 05:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

If the user intends to work on it and make a different version that meets the objections from the AfD I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to do so. Obviously, the user should be careful of COI and related concerns, but that shouldn't stop the user from working on a possible draft. JoshuaZ 05:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Article Drafts do not equate with free web hosting. CyberAnth 06:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Actually, if they're just sitting there, largely unedited, consensus is that they do consitute a violation of Misplaced Pages not being free webhosting, and should be deleted. If you are editing it, but have some reason why you're not going to be actively editing it (vacation, health, et cetera), it would be wise to note that on the talk page of the draft. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 06:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • That I am busy with real life right now doing an extra big load has been noted since Jan. 13 right at the top of my userpage. It was true even sooner, believe me. CyberAnth 07:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Never mind, this is just not worth my time. CyberAnth 07:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

  I do not believe the article will ever be notable or reliably sourced, and I do not believe it should be sitting around here on Misplaced Pages sponging up our PigeonRank. But as I told you before, CyberAnth, I have a copy of it on my hard drive, and if you request it, I will provide it to you in my userspace for whatever brief window of time it takes for you to copy it onto your hard drive. Then you can play with it all you like and if you ever think it's notable, make a request to an admin for the new version of the article to be created and listed at AFD to see if it survives. Let me know here if you want my copy, or on my talk page if I don't respond here promptly. — coelacan talk — 07:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• • • Like I said, this is just not worth my time. That said, and with all due respect, if you ever wish to have a look at WP through the lens of people who wish it were a reliable source they could recommend but do not, have a look in the mirror. CyberAnth 10:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

An option that is sometimes useful is to copy what you wish to have a copy of onto a subpage in user space; then to blank the page so it is available via history when you want it, but is not subject to critisism such as "sponging up our PigeonRank". Copy then edit so the copy is in history is a general way of saving a copy without it being live. Sometimes useful in article space too. WAS 4.250 15:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Controversial 3RR violation

This IP has violated WP:EW on article Ateneo School of Law. However, I'm not sure exactly what motives the user has for doing so; but since my attempt at conversation has been ignored, I'd be tempted to treat such edits as spam, blanking, or vandalism. I request third party input in this case. Yuser31415 05:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I've made a fourth revert to the article; after both a 'spam4' and '3RR' warnings, followed by a legitimate request for civil conversation, I can only assume the editor is acting in bad faith. Yuser31415 05:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

(S)he's just explained his/her reason in the ES. Wait a minute while I look into this ... Yuser31415 05:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Newbie admin needs a review

Claytonchilds89 (talk · contribs) was reported to AIV for vandalism based on his having removed speedy tags from a number of articles. Upon review, the generic vandalism warnings he had received did not specifically mention removing speedy tags, and I had intended to warn rather than block. However, when I reviewed the content of the articles themselves (listed on the userpage), they appeared to be vicious attack articles on members of an obscure band, and the user appeared to have usernamed himself after one of the people he was attacking. These were the user's only contributions and I therefore blocked for creation of attack articles, WP:LIVING violations, and bad username.

The user has posted an unblock request denying that anyone was attacked or that his username is an impersonation, not explaining further but referring to another user's page for verification. Upon reviewing that second page, it appears that the attacked individuals and the entire band may be fictional characters rather than real people, although the articles I deleted contained no indication to this effect. If that is the case, the articles were still properly speedied as nonsense but the block should be lifted forthwith. Inasmuch as I have made enough of a mess of this situation in my first night as an admin (sigh), I request that someone else take a look at this quickly and fix any mistakes I may have made. Thanks. Newyorkbrad 05:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Your attack pages argument still stands, so I would not withdraw the block even if your allegations of WP:LIVING and (possibly) WP:UN were incorrect. Attack pages are not tolerated.

Yuser31415 05:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I would think that if the only people attacked were fictional characters, that would hardly be an attack worthy of blocking. The plot thickens with accusations against a previously uninvolved editor now appearing on the blocked user's page, so this does call for a quick review. Newyorkbrad 05:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

If the characters are indeed fictional, a block would be/would have been in order for time-wasting nonsense and disruption. However, if user promises to be good (and the pages were not referring to actual people), I would recommend lifting the block at some point in the reasonably near future. IronDuke 05:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

These two users are not here to build an encyclopedia. 3 nonsense attack pages, accusing a good vandal-fighter of being "racist" all over the place. Block should stand and Clayzer should be blocked too. —bbatsell ¿? 05:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

... Hmmm, WP:RFCU ??? Yuser31415 05:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

No point to it, really. Teen-age friends, probably talking over AIM or some other sort, screwing around. Happens all the time and the potential for long-term disruption is minimal. Teke 05:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Decline the unblock request. I personally don't do an indef block if the user is responsive in any form, in hopes of rehabilitation (even the immature ones). I'm a bit naïve that way though. Anywho the articles the user created were seemingly based on his/her friends and were nothing but playing around with Misplaced Pages, followed by the usual "I wasn't doing anything wrong!". It's a preventative block for sure, I have no doubt that the recreations would continue. You did fine, Newyorkbrad, confidence comes with practice. Teke 05:39, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Clerk note' • If you have suspicions regarding socks, for which you have evidence. please refer them to Requests for Checkuser. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 05:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think I understand the basis for requesting a checkuser here and I don't think they would consider the situation to call for one. The result here strikes me as a little harsh if there were no real band members being attacked, but I'm sitting here dwelling on this matter and probably can't think straight about it. I apologize to pretty much anyone I ever second-guessed for an admin decision before. I'm going to bed. Newyorkbrad 05:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You'll get used to it. This is nothing; wait until you get people declaring conflict of interest based on classifications of editors only they recognize. Or maybe having people randomly say you're incompetent. And don't forget the inevitable situation when you block someone like this guy. -Amark moo! 05:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Seriously Brad, get ready for new messages about things that you would have never gotten messages about before. Being an administrator isn't fun, it's a voluntary acceptance of extra responsibilities and with that comes demands for accountability. Conflicts will happen most every day, it's why I took three months off after having the bit for a month. I had to get my head together. You'll do fine. Teke 06:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

NYB, it is best to make a case and leave discretion to whether or not it should be investigated to the presiding checkuser. They deal with these cases for large parts of the day, all day, and (no offense intended) better suited to make such a jdugement call. It is also beneficial in that, even if the case is declined, it puts the user "on the radar", and further cases of suspected sockpuppetry will be given much more gravity. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 06:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

this case doesn't follow wikipedia's blocking guidlines for isolated vandalism. if anything it needed a little rewording.--Clayzer 06:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to assume good faith that Clayzer does not understand how things work, so I'll explain.

Clayzer, administrators have the ability to view deleted edits, including the last in which you called Newyorkbrad a racist who doesn't understand Canadian folklore. The bottom line is, these sorts of contributions are neither encouraged nor welcome, we are building an encyclopedia. Please edit constructively to the project. Teke 06:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, hi, Clayzer. How did you find this case? Yuser31415 06:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

And may you please reword your statement, as I don't seem how it doesn't follow Misplaced Pages guidelines. --physicq (c) 06:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

i stumbled upon it while trying to go to top gun the movie. but being from the southern ontario region i have heard the story. and i kinda got caught up in the whole hoopla.--Clayzer 06:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• That made no sense to me. At all. Please provide context. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 06:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Is someone here thinking the same thing as myself? Yuser31415 06:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Nah, Yuser, the case is clear without the extra work. Teke 06:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Clayzer, your knowledge of Misplaced Pages policy regarding vandalism is based on your experience with your account that was created when, exactly? Newyorkbrad 06:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Is someone here thinking the same thing as myself? Yuser31415 06:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes let's just go nuts, clearly we need to use all of our admin powers to deal with this mess. We should call in the FBI and the IRS and the CIA to catch this sneaking user.

I think it is undeniable that the block was in error, since it does not follow any of Misplaced Pages's blocking guidelines under the reasons given. However, the administrator in question has noted his mistake and seems to show remorse, so his admin priveleges should not be revoked. The Canadian traditional folklore of TopGun: Mach 2 is greatly respected by most Canadians, and will continue to live on in the hearts and minds of all those loyal to the fictional band members. 24.36.77.43 06:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC) Block quote

Stop evading your block. Yuser31415 06:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

What kind of anti-climatic, un-sarcastic reply was that? --physicq (c) 07:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Er, I was referring to WP:BLOCK (not "blockquote" :)). Whether or not I am in error, I am seeing telltale signs of at least three sockpuppets here. Pardon me if I am incorrect. Yuser31415 07:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Deny recognition and move along folks, nothing to see here. Teke 07:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes you are in error, unless sockpuppets involve logging out of my Claytonchilds89 account and making an edit with only my public IP showing. In that case, you are correct, I am sockpuppetting. Teke is far more intuitive and intelligent than yourself, he had myself and Clayzer nailed to the wall long before you started calling for an unwarranted and utterly idiotic sockpuppet investigation. You should listen to Teke more often, he appears to understand the online world of idiots better than you, likely through more firsthand experience. You will learn someday. 24.36.77.43 07:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Trolls don't indimidate me. An admin will be along to block you soon. Implying that I am an idiot is a nice juicy personal attack. Claiming that you are indeed a sockpuppet and then indeed evading a block will help too. Cheers. Good will overcome evil. Yuser31415 07:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yuser, don't feed the trolls. Seriously. He admits that I called them out, it should end there. Don't even respond to this post- let the thread die. Teke 07:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It is a static IP, blocked for a week for the trolling and personal attacks, block evasion, blah blah blah. Message left on the talk page. Teke 07:52, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

DSB Worldwide spam + vandalism on Meta (spam blacklist request)

24.119.101.26 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) is one of 6 accounts that have spammed links to domains owned by DSB Worldwide since September 2005. These links have usually gotten reverted. Now the user has taken to vandalizing m:Talk:Spam blacklist using 24.119.101.26 plus a new Meta account, m:User:Spamhatred. Complete details on the spam and different accounts can be found at User talk:24.119.101.26. Meta vandalism diffs: ... then later ...

I don't know if Misplaced Pages admins can block IPs for Meta-Wiki as well, or if it needs a separate block. I think this is going to go on until a Meta admin blocks both the DSB Worldwide links as well as those of DSB competitor, searchtexoma.

Since this cuts across two projects and involves sockpuppetry, spamming, and vandalism, I wasn't sure where to take this, so I'm bringing it here. I'm not an admin, so there's not much more I can do at this point.

Thanks for your help, --A. B. 06:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Only meta admins can do admin stuff on meta, although there are a few that hang out here. I know User:Essjay and User:Naconkantari are meta admins, you could tell them. (I imagine Naconkantari will know about the problem already if it has to do with the spam blacklist.) Grandmasterka 07:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Blocked him on Meta. MaxSem 17:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

tony dungy

I reviewed your history of Tony Dungy. The piece blatantly referred to him as a "pure bread Negro". This is racism in its most guttural form. Shame on you Misplaced Pages! 70.153.135.113 07:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)Kay Marsh

Don't worry about it; such edits are normally reverted within a very short space of time by dedicated RC patrollers and article watchers. Cheers! Yuser31415 07:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe the issue has been addressed and the article has been semi-protected. Gab.popp 10:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

JuJube's annoyances

This user (Danny Lilithborne (now JuJube)) has to be stopped. A long time ago, we were having a long argument about heights and weights of Street Fighter-characters. There are many different versions of the heights and weights of these characters. Now JuJube has removed these Heights and Weights because this is too difficult to verify. Other users have asked him why the heights of these characters have been removed and JuJube blames me and says that these things have been removed because of my "constantly editwarrings". But to me, he said that the heights have been removed because this is too difficult to verify. Well, JuJube harasses me and I'm afraid that if other users would add the heights and weights to these Street Fighter Characters that JuJube would blame ma again and I'm also afraid that he would add a sockpuppet-shield to those users who would add the heights. And these problems are very frustrating for me. Please do something against JuJube and I'll be very happy. Thanks. Sergeant Gerzi 09:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• About my old username. Well worked under the username and then I've created a new account because it was too difficult to understand the "changing username" link because I'm from a foreign country and my English is not very well. Well, I've created a new account because my old username is a name of an existing character and everytime when I type my old username into the google-web machine, my contributions also appear and also JuJube's sentences about my old username also appear. Please don't forget to tell JuJube that he should use my current username in any cases. Well, I've left you a comment because JuJube has to be stopped, as I mentioned. Sergeant Gerzi 09:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• I'm also helpless and I can't defend myself against JuJube because I'm from a foreign country and my English is not well. So I ask you to help. Sergeant Gerzi 10:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This sounds more like a personal issue with the user than an 'incident'. Gab.popp 10:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Yes but JuJube has to be stopped and that's why I added a commento to the administrators' noticeboard because I have a complaint against this user and he also harasses other users. Please help me out or give me a link where I can describe my problems. Sergeant Gerzi 16:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You can learn how to resolve your disputes at WP:DISPUTE. --Yamla 16:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Sniper

The page "sniper" linked to from royal marines has been removed and replaced with useless banter by a user. I apologise that I am unfortunately not able to replace this page due to a conciderable lack of knowledge, however i would like to report it, as if someone else is able, this page needs reviewing.

It's been fixed. Thanks! By the way, why don't you take five minutes and go here? yandman 10:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The page appears to have been reverted 9 minutes after the vandalism occurred.

Could someone please have a chat to User:kostaki1 about vandalism?

Gab.popp 10:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, while we're here, can anyone link me to a page that explains how to warn users and if the inevitable occurs, block them? I can't seem to find much, and it'd be a lot easier if I do it myself instead of reporting things for every incident. --Dayn 10:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

How to warn users: WP:TT. Where to report users for blocking (if you're capable of blocking without a report, you'll know how): WP:AIV. General information about the vandalism cleanup process (including warnings): WP:CUV, 'What to do if you spot vandalism'. --ais523 10:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

To warn a user, just go to their talk page and warn them. There are templates you can use but you don't have to and I personally raely use them.

If they need to be blocked you need to contact an admin. You should do that at WP:AIV. Note that admins will not usually block a user who hasn't been warned first. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 10:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you all very much. --Dayn 10:45, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Just to let you know, I've reported the vandal at the Vandalism board. The Kinslayer 10:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Content Dispute, possible 3RR violation(s)

I'd appreciate it if an admin could take a look over at John McDonnell (politician) and sort out the situation. There seems to be a conflict between an IP user and a registered user over content on the page, i've left a note to the registered user to leave a comment on the page, but so far the talk page so no different from where I left it. Just want to get this dealed with before it becomes more of a problem -- feb 10:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think they violated the 3RR there, but a load of unreferenced material is being pumped into that article. Looks like more of an advert than a wiki article. Gab.popp 10:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Suspected sock puppets/Hahahihihoho

I would like a few administrators to look into this case right now, as the User:Alkalada is violating a ban because he is the notorious user:Hahahihihoho. Check the contributions, and block log. He has not changed his ways and is in violation of Misplaced Pages's policies. Alkalada and all Hahahihihoho's socks should be banned, and the user shoudl try to get his main accoutn unbanned in the future if he wishes. —KingIvan 11:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I am only putting sourced articles which you without any reason are taking away. I suggest to the modds to block Ivan Kricancic immediatly! Alkalada 14:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• These two users have been going at it for some time, it went on Elaragirl's talk page for no good reason, and now here. I'd suggest either some DR posthaste, or some strong blocks to both of them. Misplaced Pages is not a Battleground. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 17:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Comet McNaught

Already requested semi-protect but this will hopefully get a faster response. Please Semi-Protect this article, it is getting vandalised almost every minute at the moment. Zunaid©® 11:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You're right about the faster reponse. I immediately took care of it. Grandmasterka 11:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

user 24.132.108.178

has left this comment on the discussion page of the article of hrant dink (who has been killed recently):

"Its good that this man is dead. Let it be clear to everyone that whoever insults turkey insults the deep rooted nationalism of turks. SO he went to far, and faced the consequences. I say we have 1 problem less now."

i think the comment is already deleted; but to cheer a murder of a journalist on wikipedia CAN'T be acceptable !

--Severino 12:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Rumpelstiltskin223

User:Hkelkar was banned for one year by the ArbCom as part of the Hkelar ArbCom case. I believe that Hkelkar is evading his ban using the account User:Rumpelstiltskin223. As I was party to the case, I will not take unilateral action against the user. I would like other admins to look at the evidence I have collected.

• If you look at the user creation log, the account was created on 15 November, around the time when the case was going on. The user started to edit on the same day with the first edit being a revert with the edit summary "rv".
• After some edits here and there, Rumpelstiltskin223 became completely active from 10th December (the day Hkelkar got banned).
• Since then, Rumpelstiltskin223 has made close to 1400 edits in the mainspace. He has already shown the same pro-hindu and anti-muslim bias that hkelkar had and has already been blocked 4 times for edit-warring.
• Most of the articles edited by Rumpel were frequented by Hkelkar too.:
  1. 2002 Gujarat violence - This was Hkelkar's 2nd most edited article. Rumpel has 24 edits to it already.
  2. Dalit Buddhist movement - Another article frequented by Hkelkar, and now frequented by Rumpel.
  3. Dalit -
  4. Islam in India -
  5. Hindutva - (This one edited by Hkelkar in both his avatars - Shiva's trident and Hkelkar)
  6. Lashkar-e-Toiba -
• Though Rumpelstiltskin223 hasn't uploaded many images yet, he shows the same style there too by uploading images from websites having a cc-by-sa license. His last upload is from flickr, from which Hkelkar used to upload a lot of pics. See and
• Also see where it is said that Rumpelstiltskin223 is pursuing a PhD in physics. Hkelkar/Shiva's trident was also pursuing a PhD in physics.

Thus I feel that Rumpelstiltskin223 is no one but Hkelkar using a new name and probably editing from a different geographical location and I seek an indef-block on Rumpelstiltskin223 and a reset on Hkelkar's ban. - Aksi_great (talk) 12:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

What makes you think this user is necessarily editing from a new location? Would a checkuser help? Grandmasterka 12:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

We knew all the IPs that Hkelkar edited from and the college he went too. He is too clever to use an IP from the same town. I have a feeling that a checkuser on Rumpel will not prove (or disprove) anything. - Aksi_great (talk) 12:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

see Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Hkelkar. does that discount the use of proxies? ITAQALLAH 12:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The checkusers will note the use of proxies if they identify them as such at the time. Also, the checkuser was run over winter break, making it possible that Hkelkar was editing from another location but is now back at uni. Asking for a recheck couldn't hurt. Finally, checkuser can be defeated by a number of technical means both simple and complex, so sockpuppetry is always determined primarily by contributions and behavior. Thatcher131 15:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Quite unlikely. If the only source you have for "physics" is some hallucination DaGizza experienced then that's hardly proof. Hkelkar's blocks were mainly for incivility not WP:3RR. Since when does a user go from careful on wp:3RR to getting blocked for it frequently? The "facts" dont add up. If you didnt know aksi, there are way more users than rumpel that hold pro-Hindu biases (anti-Muslim is incorrect). Oh no a user of "rv", something every user uses as an edit summary, and anyone that has even viewed a page history on wiki has seen.Bakaman 21:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I have seen this accusation being bandied around on wikipedia before and sockpuppetry accusations abused and misused.I am not anybody's sockpuppet, and please feel free to do any checkuser that is needed. This accusation is largely based on the rants of an anonymous ip, who has been evading blocks using multiple ips from the same domain, making insults and slurs in my user page, and trying to recruit people against me. See Rumpelstiltskin223 23:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I have been accused of "anti-muslim" bias, an accusation I find highly offensive and insulting, particularly in the light of my edits ,. I am not against any religion. In addition, if you will notice the 6 articles itemized by aksi_great, you will see that my edits have primarily been of a technical nature and maintainance-type edits. I expanded the article on Dalit considerably with information that was lacking and I consider myself to have done the article a service. Rumpelstiltskin223 23:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It is quite irrelevant if Rumpelstiltskin223 is or is not a sockpuppet. Also, I advice everybody to ignore his/her complaints about other editors. Fact is, this user is disruptive to Misplaced Pages and shows absolutely no desire to improve him/herself. When he/she was blocked and asked how to avoid such situations, I sympathized with him/her and took his/her question for real. I offered some advice, but he consistently refused to even look at it. Even his "thank you" was mostly a complaint about other users. When I finally announced that I was giving up AGF on him/her, he/she deleted our last conversation. It seems to me that this user is intent on having problems with other editors. Much as I believe in the good in people, I'm at the end of my wisdom with that user. I am really no fan of punitive measures, but I don't see any use for Misplaced Pages in further allowing this user to edit. — Sebastian 00:14, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, so he's here as well, protesting my protestations of an anonymous user calling me a "Madarchod" (that's Indian slang for "low-caste motherfucker") and declaring that I am "disruptive" and should have "punitive measures" imposed on me, for reverting vandalisms by anon ips to dozens of articles today itself,starting several articles on Hindi films,

and dispelling the ongoing wikipedia-myth that Indians constitute some sort of "race" (the ignorance here boggles my mind) Given your indefensible behaviour against the verifiable truth on Decline of Buddhism in India, your consistent support for a User:Iwazaki, who has said that he intends to undo the "rape of his country on wikipedia" together with increasing incivility and ethnic attacks on Tamil people from this guy with no protestations of neutrality and tendentiousness from you, and your sudden declaration of hostility against me, one wonders what your intentions here really are.Rumpelstiltskin223 00:36, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

IP User:24.47.79.127

I have just noticed that the above user has made a legal threat to RHaworth on his user talk page, could someone look into it? RyanPostlethwaite 13:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to relate to a post RHaworth made here. While I agree with Roger's critical assessment of the writing style, it may be that such undiplomatic language invites trouble. None of this is meant to excuse the legal threat of course, which is unacceptable. --Guinnog 14:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Great Fire of Smyrna

On RC patrol, I reverted an edit on this page, with the edit summary "Modified previous version to include objective historical research and exclude recent postings by Turkish government agents.", then I got a message:

Instead of flouting your bias why dont you stop supporting Turkish propaganda and let other opinions be heard. What gives you the right to allow the Turkish user Mustafa to post three consecutive edits while deleting my previous additions? Are you aware of the concept of litigation? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tedblack (talk • contribs) 13:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

I ask for help in the matter, is it vandalism, content dispute, or paranoia? _→AzaToth 13:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

My vote is for "paranoia", given the comment left me:

Yes thanks for your advise to "discuss" modifications with Misplaced Pages editors. Strange that most of them are Turkish and paid agents of the Turkish government.

Thanks for your objectivity Misplaced Pages! This story is bound to generate interest in newspapers in Britain and the US. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tedblack (talk • contribs) 13:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

It appears this editor also signed out to duck 3RR , after receiving a 3RR warning . Seraphimblade 13:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks like a bit of WP:LEGAL there... I'll add the page to my watchlist and leave a note on the editor.--Isotope23 14:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

It's definitely a legal threat, and looking at his talk page, he seems to be quite the edit warrior. I don't see why he shouldn't be sternly warned. I've been bold and tagged his essay Option on the product of two asset prices for speedy deletion. I think bringing this to AfD would be a waste of everyone's time, and he's already removed someone's prod. yandman 14:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I've left him a message on his talk page, I'm watching the article, and I've also speedied that article as an original research essay (or more correctly a math problem) and apparent Neologism.--Isotope23 14:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Al-Kindi#Article renaming

I'm not sure what the policy/guideline is with regard to renaming discussions on Talk pages, so I thought that I'd asked here.

I made a proposal to change the name of the article to what I take to be the most common form. Anas Salloum (talk · contribs) opposed the change, on the basis in large part of Internet searches. Once I'd demonstrated that Internet search engines present "Al-Kindī" as "Al-Kindi", and so can't be relied upon, another editor – hitherto uninvolved on the Talk page so far as I can tell – suddenly turned up to support Anas. When I checked, I found that Anas has been asking editors to join the discussion. That might not be in itself a bad thing, though there's a strong suspicion that he's been canvassing editors whom he takes to agree with him in such cases.

Is this acceptable in such cases? --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, no-one seems to know or be interested, but Anas has said that he was merely approaching people whom he knew to be knowledgeable in Arabic. As that is irrelevant to the discussion, I still don't understand, but I'll assume good faith.

I'd still like to know the answer in principle, though. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Are you looking for the Misplaced Pages:Canvassing guideline? Jkelly 18:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Disruptive self-tagging with warnings

King Lopez (talk · contribs) keeps tagging his own talk pages with warning templates, making it look very confusing as to what is real and what is fake. Also has problems with images being used without fair use, and also awards himself barnstars using two sockpuppets Dolphiner (talk · contribs) and Lioner (talk · contribs). Possibly related to Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Cyber Lopez. Currently changing various performers infoboxes and adding what appears to be unsubstantiated info, such as height.

--ArmadilloFromHellGateBridge 14:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean. I've removed the confusion, with a request that he tests (if testing is necessary — I don't see why it is) in a sandbox. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Reporting User: 82.23.36.174

This user received a final warning for repeated vandalism on November 26, 2006. I noticed new vandalism in January 2007, removed it, reported it on the User's talk page, and am reporting this user now, recommending he/she be banned if possible.NYDCSP 15:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Please use WP:AIV for reporting vandalism. Thanks for helping fight vandalism, by the way. yandman 15:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Ongoing vandalism from Special:Contributions/66.151.224.254

Continuing to vandalize despite warning. Short term block (so I can at least clean up the latest vandalism)? Nposs 17:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Now blocked by someone else. It's usually better to report such cases at WP:AIV. Sandstein 18:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Block-evading sockpuppet?

I think HalfOfElement29 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) may be the indefinitely blocked user GoodCop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log).

After I reverted some of his edits to Atlantis, HalfOfElement29 accused me of incivility in a rather bizarre thread on User:Dbachmann's talk page (see also User talk:HalfOfElement29). Despite several requests HOE29 hasn't explained why he thinks I've been uncivil, and has accused me of being part of "a deliberate attack campaign" against him.

At the risk of justifying HOE29's feelings of persecution, I looked at his user contribs. In GoodCop's third edit, he adds what could be called an "enemies list" to his user page, naming User:ScienceApologist as the leader of a "religious pseudoscience cult" that includes several editors/admins. In the next edit, he blanks his user page, with the summary "protection from the cultists". These edits occur on 31 May 2006; the account then remains inactive until 2 December 2006, after which it's in regular use. Anyone who puts up a list of allegedly-misbehaving editors on their third edit has probably edited under another account. In this case, I think it's the indefinitely blocked user GoodCop.

This Statement by GoodCop in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience asserts the existence of a "wikiclique" that includes several of the users on HOE29's "enemies list", with ScienceApologist as their leader. The similarity of these two lists is pretty conclusive, in my opinion, but it's also worth noting that several of GoodCop's edits exhibit what could be labeled paranoia--this oppose vote on Saxifrage's RFA, for example (and be sure to look at the discussion that kicks off), and two posts to WP:ANI (here and here). The misguided accusations of incivility in those posts seem similar to HOE29's present accusations of incivility (though at least in his ANI posts GoodCop was specific about what he thought the offenders had done wrong). In addition, GoodCop and HOE29 edit similar articles--they have a common interest in genetics and race, editing Haplogroup and related articles, and both have edited Iraq War.

By the way, if I have been uncivil during this incident, I will certainly apologize; but I would appreciate being told how I have been uncivil. --Akhilleus (talk) 17:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• To the evidence can be added an odd edit summary "tick". Both GoodCop and HalfOfElement29 typically add material with the phrase "added fact/ " (with a detail to follow after the space). That is unlikely to be coincidental. Bucketsofg 19:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• Both edit the article Haplogroup and Iraq War . Bucketsofg 19:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
• This edit of GoodCop should be compared to this one of HalfOfElement29 from six weeks later. Note the lack of capitalization and spelling of "aboriginies". Bucketsofg 00:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

• I'm convinced that HalfOfElement29 is a sock of GoodCop. Anyone think otherwise? Bucketsofg 01:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Birdie b23

This user is creating articles on numerous non-notable community colleges. I deleted one, which apparantly makes me an absolute idiot and nosey moron. I'd do something but obviously I'm involved in the dispute. Can someone do something? Here's a diff, anyway: Luigi30 (Taλk) 17:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Hm, according to the contribs he insulted you once, and childishly so. Someone gave him a civility warning. There's not much more to be done at this point that I can see. Do drop me a note if he keeps being disruptive. Sandstein 18:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

143.254.63.xxx

3 or 4 ip's in the 143.254.63.xxx range have been vandalizing the Marisol Escobar page.--CWY2190 17:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Reporting User:68.45.73.66

He has spammed the Asperger's Syndrome article inserting profanity and derisive comments into the article. Here is the link:

1. 10:34, January 22, 2007 (hist) (diff) Asperger syndrome
2. 10:30, January 22, 2007 (hist) (diff) Asperger syndrome

Please delete or block user please... Alex Jackl 17:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Vandalism reports belong at WP:AIV. Anyway, this user vandalized the article in question once, and it's already been reverted. We don't block users for a first offense. | Mr. Darcy talk 19:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • ... Unless it's really serious (such as blatantly and maliciously posting personal information et cetera). This, however, isn't serious. Yuser31415 19:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Okay thanks! I will direct that kind of complaint to WP:AIV from now on. I guess I thought it was more serious because of the insertion of profanity and CLEAR vandalistic aspect to it. Thanks for your attention. Do I need to do anything to close this issue on this page? Alex Jackl 20:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
      • No, it's fine, thanks! Yuser31415 21:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Scatter (Tennis) disruptions

A number of users, at least two of whom are the same person, are playing games with this article, which I nominated for deletion. They are User:Bobfuji, User:Qwerty12321, User:ScatterTennis, and User:69.118.112.119, the latter of whom posted a message on the talk page that was signed by User:Bobfuji, indicating they are the same person and that Bobfuji used the IP to edit while he was blocked. Given the pattern of edits, it seems likely there is sock/meat puppetry going on, but not certain. Can an admin keep an eye on this? Thanks-Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 18:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Treaty of Nöteborg

The trouble caused by User:Jaakko Sivonen might have served to distract attention from the other side in his conflict. The article on the Treaty of Nöteborg, which is about a treaty concerning the division of part of what is now Finland, doesn't mention Finland anywhere. Any attempt to introduce such a reference, including the Finnish name for the treaty, is reverted (indeed, a correction to the English and a request for a citation were twice included in a general revert when I tried to amend thengs). There's a "poll" currently in which a number of people are offering specious reasons not to allow the inclusion of the Finnish name (it's apparently "revisionist" and "counterhistorical"). It seems to me that ownership has been taken of the article by people who have their own politico-nationalist position every bit as unacceptable as Sivonen's. Could other admins take a look? If you think that I'm wrong about it, OK, but if I'm right then it needs sorting out and dealing with. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:38, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Anshe Chung

I've been cleaning up the article intermittently, and rewrote the section on the griefing incident to take out some slanted language and add facts. AndreasZander (talk · contribs) and Valery42 (talk · contribs) have reverted me without saying what's wrong with my version. Andreas left an edit summary saying an admin's intervention was needed, so I'm posting it here. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 19:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I restored your version and put a note on the article's talk page that the article needs more reliable sources. Your edits appeared to be completely valid at a quick look. | Mr. Darcy talk 20:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Milo H Minderbinder "editing" my talkpage

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Can someone please ask Milo to stop. Thanks,-Cindery 20:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

These are the edits in question: & . Milo, your actions are out of line. (wrong+wrong = right?)---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Here's the situation: Cindery's talk page contains a section that is entirely about me. User talk:Cindery#Stop it. In this section, she makes the false statement that I restored material that she repeatedly blanked (ironically, on this very page). When I asked her to clarify or responded with a correction, she deleted my response. When I deleted the false statement, she restored it and filed this complaint. JS, if you go back a couple more diffs on the history of her page, you will see where she deleted my response to her false comment. My actions were merely a response made necessary by her insistence on editing the discussion into a biased and false state.

I have a very simple request for any admins who read this and may take action - either allow me one sentence of response to correct the false statement, or remove the false statement, I'd be fine with either. Obviously, I realize that users have the right to blank their talk page, however I find it deceptive to blank selective parts of a discussion instead of the whole thing.

I'd be more than happy to supply diffs if there's any doubt that the statement is false (on the history of this page, Cindery removed a comment of mine several times and it was restored each time by editors other than myself). Thanks. --Milo H Minderbinder 20:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that you are fixated on trying to revive and escalate a dead argument. You should be dropping the issue. You have absolutely no right to "edit" my talkpage, and you are in high-escalation mode, blanking a section of my talkpage, and inserting phony npa tags. It's harassment. Post a screed giving "your side" or something on your own talkpage, and leave me alone.-Cindery 20:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm perfectly willing to drop the issue once the false statement about me is removed, or if I am allowed to respond to it. You insist on "leave me alone" but you refuse a request to remove a false statement about me (leave me alone)? If you're truly interested in "disengaging" as you put it in your edit summaries, simply remove the false statement about me. --Milo H Minderbinder 21:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

For starters... this is not the Misplaced Pages complaints department. Unless someone is arguing there is a policy violation in all this sniping, this is the wrong place to bring this. It should probably be pointed out that you don't own your userpage Cindery. Removing a response to a thread is not the best idea, even if you feel you are done with the conversation. That said, I don't think this constitutes a personal attack. The bottom line: you both need to chill out.--Isotope23 21:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict):::::::For me, it has absolutely nothing to do with Milo, and everything to do with ending on a nice note between Spartaz and I, since we have not always seen eye to eye. But--that's completely irrelevant. The issue is that no matter what Milo thinks, he absolutely cannot blank a whole section of my talkpage, edit war to blank my talkpage, insert phony npa warnings etc--that's disruptive, and it's harassment.-Cindery 21:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not so sure that Milo H Minderbinder wanting to respond to your allegations that he blanked content goes so far as being "disruptive" or harrasment, though I think he went a bit far in wiping out the whole thread twice. At this point I don't see any reason to take any action against anyone here and I suggest you both drop it.--Isotope23 21:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Would the Mediation cabal be of any help? (typically you contact them early, while they can still sort stuff out, rather than late :-) ) --Kim Bruning 21:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Kim, unless I miss the mark this appears to be more a behavioural dispute than a content one, and I don't think it's in MedCab's remit to address behaviour problems (though I may be wrong). Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 21:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Medcab is mostly when people are disagreeing with each other or fighting, whatever the reason might be. :-) --Kim Bruning 22:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

(Edit conflict):If Cindery considers the blanking disruptive, I'll simply add my response to your false comment and ask that she not delete it.

Considering the whole reason that section of the talk page exists is because you deleted my comment here on ANI many times (I'll provide the diffs if anyone would like to see them), for which I did not request admin action, I think I have been incredibly understanding and tolerant. But I will not accept you lying about the situation you created and refusing me the opportunity to correct your flat-out lies. I think my simple request to have my side remain a part of that discussion is perfectly reasonable and modest. One comment on a talk page correcting a falsehood. Please let my comment remain and let this situation end. --Milo H Minderbinder 21:43, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I request that Milo be briefly blocked to cool down, for the above personal attack ("flat-out lies" etc.) and for continuing his disruption by editing my talkpage while this discussion was ongoing.-Cindery 21:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

You both are about 1 edit away from a cool down block. Seriously... you both need to let it go.--Isotope23 21:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you find it acceptable for editors to make false statements about other editors on talk pages? Do you find it acceptable to selectively delete individual comments in a thread? Heck, is it acceptable for a user to delete someone else's comments here on ANI (five times , all of which I let slide)? I can see why you want to cool things down, it's a reasonable call and makes perfect sense. But with all due respect, I think Cindery's actions have been disruptive, and I think letting them continue sends the wrong message. --Milo H Minderbinder 22:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Blocks are not punitive. Yuser31415 22:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought blocks were intended to stop disruptive behaviour? She was deleting my talk posts yesterday, and she's still continuing to do it now. I'd like to believe that she won't do it again, but that remains to be seen. --Milo H Minderbinder 22:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Note: I deleted Milo's posts after politely requesting that he rewrite them with care not to violate anonymity/ WP:BLP (and more to make him stop and consider what he was doing/could be about to do. He was clearly upset and I didn't think he was in the frame of mind to consider his actions carefully, and I don't think he was fully aware of the BLP/anonymity issues he could violate if he wasn't more careful. The order of events is: first he ignored my polite request not to blank a section at Barrington Hall, and responded by blanking the section again. . After I reported it here, he ignored my polite request re anonymity and BLP --so I did what I felt I had to do to make him stop and think, and it worked. People noticed; Milo slowed down; someone else told him to rewrite it, the upshot is that he was more careful. It protected him from maybe accidentally doing things I think he would have regretted as much as it protected me.) Now he has returned long enough after-the-fact re the ANI report that it should be over/no one else has anything to say about it anymore, to add argumentative comments to my talkpage, blank my talkpage, post phony warnings, call me names, etc. I just ask that he stop.-Cindery 22:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

After numerous edit conflicts, allow me to say thank you for bringing your complaints to the attention of the administrators, they have been noted and the situation will be monitored. For future reference, dispute resolution is down the hall. Happy editing. Steve block Talk 22:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict, this is in response to Cindery's last comment) Wow, that's just bizarre, I'm not why you've chosen to re-open this whole can of worms. The blanked section had consensus to delete (that's hardly "ignoring a request not to blank") and was also removed by at least three other editors. I'm not sure how I could have possibly "ignored' your request for BLP (which a number of admins agreed didn't apply since I was just repeating info you had posted yourself) since your request to rewrite them came after you deleted it for the first time . It wasn't really possible to edit my comments, even if I wanted to, with you revert warring over them. I'll agree that people noticed, they restored my comment that you deleted and warned you on your talk page not to do it again, and you only stopped deleting it when threatened with a block. I'm not sure why you keep attacking me like this, could you please stop and let this thing end? --Milo H Minderbinder 23:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

No please, that's enough. Step two in the dispute resolution is to walk away for a bit. Please do that now, thank you. Steve block Talk 23:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Abusive sock puppet

of noted sock puppet User:Shran and User:CantStandYa. Stalking, personal attacks and editing my comments (all this morning). No doubt exists about who this is. Someone please block. User:Sacrificial Ram--for some reason I think he is expecting it. I have to go and wont be available for comment for awhile. Jasper23 20:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Reveals himself here Jasper23 20:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

BlakeCS' user page

There something strange about his user page that makes me unsettled. He has a list of students he knows at some high school he attends, which makes me wonder if that is at all appropriate and a possible invasion of privacy. Now, I would remove the list myself from the page, but I have already gone after him for several AfDs and other silly edit conflicts. What should be done about this? Can somebody please step in? :: Colin Keigher (Talk) 21:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Asked him to remove them. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 21:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed the info, since it appears to violate some policy (I don't wish to appear dense, but it didn't seem appropriate). What's our policy on posting personal information? Yuser31415 22:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Personal information is typically oversighted ASAP, but that doesn't really qualify as personal information in the oversight-removal sense, as that tends to be phone numbers posted without permission, etc. Either way, it's probably not appropriate information for a userpage anyway. --Deskana (request backup) 22:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

• Pardon me for butting in but this guy claims on his user page to be an administrator and yet he has a very short talkpage and no archives whatsoever. You'd have thought he'd also have known better than to place private information on his page. Is there any way of checking the verifiability of his claim?--Edchilvers 22:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I removed the userbox (check his log, no admin promotion seen). Something odd is going on here. Yuser31415 22:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Block evasion by Mitsos?

This: 85.74.136.142 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and this: 85.74.148.10 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) seems to be Mitsos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), evading his current two-week block and continuing to add OR material to Hrisi Avgi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), the article about the Greek fascist party with which he sympathises and on which he has edit-warred on and off for a long time.

My guess is based on the edit pattern alone. Note that the similarity of the IPs to earlier known Mitsos IPs is not a strong argument in this case, since this is a well known dynamic DSL range of Greece's largest ISP; there's an awful lot of Greek users coming in from these IPs.

Just wanted other admins to have a look first. Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

IP address in history

Would it be a huge effort to delete the last 3 versions of my talk page (autoblock unblock request, unblock notice, self-revert for privacy). I'd rather not have my IP address in my history. Chovain 23:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

To clarify, this is the last version without my IP adress in it: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Chovain&curid=5595977&oldid=102537803

From what I can see, you are looking for Misplaced Pages:Oversight. Cheers, Yuser31415 01:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Frank Lofaro Jr.

I have issued a test4 warning to Frank Lofaro Jr. (talk • contribs) for having created, just a few minutes apart, Talk Page censorship of Encyclopedia Dramatica is wrong and Misplaced Pages is so worried about spammers it will hurt Google and legitimate sites it links to by using nofollow to prevent sites from gaining Page Rank. A sudden burst of trolling from what appears to be a good user. User:Zoe|(talk)

User seems to be in fear of his/her life

SATELLITEXP (talk · contribs), who edits from the IP 209.233.252.24 (talk · contribs), created the article Sarzana (gang) about a year ago. He or she now desperately wants the article to be speedied. The first given reasons were "to protect identities and ensure safety of editors and authors" and "Protection of authors and editors" . User:SATELLITEXP then said "I am the original author of this article, please delete to protect my identity and safety" . I have pointed out why this is not a criterion for speedy deletion, and suggested the m:Right to vanish. But is there anything else that we can/should do? Note that this author has requested a (granted) username change a year ago saying "I am avoiding evidence of my old screenname anywhere on wiki." Aecis 23:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps this qualifies as a {{db-bio}}? HighInBC 00:06, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Kill it, it looks non-notable to me anyway, I doubt we'd lose anything by deleting it and the only other edits seem to be vandalism and some categorizing so it's nearly db-author territory. --tjstrf talk 00:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Deleted per WP:CSD#A7. HighInBC 00:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Crustaceanguy

I have indef. blocked Crustaceanguy (talk · contribs) for a sudden burst of vandalism, consisting of making nonsense redirects over and over again. The redirects are all removed from his contributions, so you can't see what he was doing, but there were about eight of them that I deleted. Another compromised account? User:Zoe|(talk) 00:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

No, this guy's only been here a week, few actual article edits. Name is just similar. Fan-1967 00:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

In fact, now that I look more closely, he has zero edits to article space. User:Zoe|(talk) 00:45, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I take it back. one. User:Zoe|(talk) 00:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Persistant disruption with fanfic fodder

Due to my watchlisting of several pages (and the WikiProject I started), I have been persistantly dealing with the edits of Prmax (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). There has not been a 'single verifiable addition to the encyclopedia by this user, and he has solely contributed to other articles by adding his fan-made stuff to lists on pre-existing pages () or overwriting pre-existing pages with his false information.

Not only that, but he has repeatedly created his fan fic pages in the main space. This list includes Power Rangers Rescue Hunters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (AFD'd, WP:SALTed), Dairyuu Sentai Acceleranger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), and just today Power Rangers Relic Force (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). I also have a strong feeling that this user is the same as Solarmax (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who also performed similar edits with Power Rangers Delta Hunters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and was the first to create the Rescue Hunters article, and has been blocked. I have assumed good faith with this user (Prmax), but he has worn my patience thin with his creation of another hoax article and has ignored any and all contact with him on his talk page due to the intermittent contributions by the user (he does not seem to know what he doing is wrong, as he created a new account to do the same things with it after the first was blocked).

There is nothing that we have done that has stopped him. Under a week after the four day block on Prmax expired, he continued to work on the fanfics, and I only managed to find it today because of the edits he introduced into established series' articles.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 01:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

User:SimonRebbsell1

This user has put edits on various stars (Kelly Clarkson and Hilary Duff child abuse scandal) suggesting that they're in legal trouble for sex with underage people. Wonder if an admin could take a look and deal with him? Thanks. Philippe Beaudette 01:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

User:NuclearUmpf posting identifying information

Somehow he has obtained my name. He has posted it numerous times and I've asked him to stop. I believe this is a blatant policy violation and he is using it as a form of intimidation. Please delete the post (not revert it). Tbeatty 01:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

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