| Revision as of 18:58, 10 December 2021 editBarecode (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,445 edits →Greenwald: thanks← Previous edit | Revision as of 19:38, 10 December 2021 edit undoSpringee (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users18,484 edits →GreenwaldNext edit → | ||
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| : {{u|Springee}} - Thanks for your concern. Really, I am not trying to achieve anything else than making the existing ''de facto'' ban official. He is practically banned at this moment and the way the ban was done leaves room for interpretations, ambiguity and misunderstandings. NYP is considered to be an unreliable source. Ok, but that was decided using the right procedure - using a RfC. And so deserves Greenwald too. I am not delusional so I'm not trying to change his status. Also I am not trying to raise his status above the status of other SPS, and to try to use his work as RS. There is something else. Misplaced Pages considers Greenwald to be dishonest, having no credibility etc. And that's something totally different than being unreliable because he is a SPS. At this moment, the conclusion is that Greenwald is essentially a bad journalist. That's the issue that I want to debate. I know what the result will be and I have no hope to change it. I just want to make it official, that's all. I hope I made myself understood. | : {{u|Springee}} - Thanks for your concern. Really, I am not trying to achieve anything else than making the existing ''de facto'' ban official. He is practically banned at this moment and the way the ban was done leaves room for interpretations, ambiguity and misunderstandings. NYP is considered to be an unreliable source. Ok, but that was decided using the right procedure - using a RfC. And so deserves Greenwald too. I am not delusional so I'm not trying to change his status. Also I am not trying to raise his status above the status of other SPS, and to try to use his work as RS. There is something else. Misplaced Pages considers Greenwald to be dishonest, having no credibility etc. And that's something totally different than being unreliable because he is a SPS. At this moment, the conclusion is that Greenwald is essentially a bad journalist. That's the issue that I want to debate. I know what the result will be and I have no hope to change it. I just want to make it official, that's all. I hope I made myself understood. | ||
| : By the way, I never started any RfC, maybe you can help? :D - I tried ] and failed already. -- ] (]) 18:57, 10 December 2021 (UTC) | : By the way, I never started any RfC, maybe you can help? :D - I tried ] and failed already. -- ] (]) 18:57, 10 December 2021 (UTC) | ||
| ::The problem is based on the way Misplaced Pages works he shouldn't be a usable source in most cases. Yes, it's crappy that a lot of good journalist have decided to go self published and thus Misplaced Pages can't cite their work. But if that door were to be opened then a lot of really crappy reporters would also be allowed in. This isn't a case of "Misplaced Pages thinks". Misplaced Pages the encycolpedia makes not statement one way or another. Some Misplaced Pages editors think X. When I first started editing I was involved in an article about automobile suspension. This is a subject that I understand and where I happen to know some real experts on the subject. A big issue I ran into was editors citing car magazine where the writers were clearly out of their depth. They were wrong and I could explain why but at the time I didn't understand that, for better and worse, Misplaced Pages is going to stick to "reliable" sources. I found that really frustrating because my personal knowledge and understanding and ability to explain why the sources were wrong, meant very little since I didn't have sources on my side. That is where you are with the material you want to source to Greenwald. {{pb}}You mentioned the NYT as a reliable source. That is true but it didn't come about because of a RfC. The NYT has all the elements that people want to see in a good media source. Thus the NYT is presumed good until shown otherwise. I do agree it seems odd that we would be OK with Greenwald's reports when they were published by the Intercept where he had an editorial freedom agreement . But in the end Misplaced Pages has it's own rules and that means we are stuck needed sources that check certain boxes if we are to use them to make certain claims. Greenwald as a self published source doesn't check those boxes. I mean if I were to start such a RfC I would vote "not reliable" even though I personally think his work is still good if more on the analysis vs factual reporting side of things. ] (]) 19:38, 10 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Psychic painting (May 17)
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Psychic painting (May 18)
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Sulfurboy (talk) 03:36, 18 May 2020 (UTC)Nomination of Sex Island for deletion
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Deep Blue Aerospace moved to draftspace
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Galactic Energy moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Galactic Energy, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Misplaced Pages). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Misplaced Pages's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Celestina007 (talk) 21:24, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Galactic Energy (June 14)
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Speedy deletion nomination of Tidepool (company)
Hello Barecode,
I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Tidepool (company) for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly indicate why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.
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SamHolt6 (talk) 21:32, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Project Sauron moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Project Sauron, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Misplaced Pages). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Misplaced Pages's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Megan Barris (Lets talk📧) 11:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Project Sauron has been accepted
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~ Amkgp 💬 18:15, 10 August 2020 (UTC)Supply Chain Resilience Initiative
Good day, When reviewing a new page created by you, I noticed that it is very closely paraphrased from one of its sources. This is a copyright violation. Please re-write the article using unique, non-copyrighted sentences. Since the page is so new- I wanted to give you a little time to fix this before I submitted the article to be deleted. THank you. Nightenbelle (talk) 21:42, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Speedy deletion nomination of Supply Chain Resilience Initiative
Hello Barecode,
I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Supply Chain Resilience Initiative for deletion, because it seems to be copied from another source, probably infringing copyright.
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Nightenbelle (talk) 13:21, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Proposed deletion of Car-centric city
The article Car-centric city has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:
Dictionary definition of a Neologism. None of the sources given use the term. WP:NOTDICT
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Speedy deletion nomination of Suez Economic and Trade Cooperation Zone
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A tag has been placed on Suez Economic and Trade Cooperation Zone, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Misplaced Pages:FAQ/Organizations for more information.
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Isar Aerospace moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Isar Aerospace, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Misplaced Pages). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Misplaced Pages's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. John B123 (talk) 18:20, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
- @John B123: - now it has 5 citation. How many citations it needs in total to be accepted?
Speedy deletion nomination of Aphelion Orbitals
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I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Aphelion Orbitals for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly indicate why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.
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John B123 (talk) 18:52, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
Your submission at Articles for creation: Isar Aerospace (September 10)
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List of orbital launches by year moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, List of orbital launches by year, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Misplaced Pages). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Misplaced Pages's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. John B123 (talk) 22:23, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Adding 'Expected maiden flights' in the Timeline of spaceflight pages
Hi, I have something to comment about the section Expected maiden flights, which you added to 2020 in spaceflight and 2021 in spaceflight. The section currently fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE and potentially WP:NOTCRYSTAL. Furthermore, the 2020 version currently lacks any references. Unless the section is improved considerably (such as adding refs, clarifying what gets listed and what doesn't get listed, requesting improvement in the talk pages), it will probably get removed. For your information, a list of future launch systems is already given at Comparison of orbital launch systems (To view as a list of future launch vehicles, click on the box First located on the second row). I suggest what you added in the 'Expected maiden flights' to be moved to this page, or perhaps start a new page covering the specific topic. Kind regards, Hms1103 (talk) 14:33, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
Your draft article, Draft:Psychic painting
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Thanks for your submission to Misplaced Pages, and happy editing. Liz 03:35, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
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Bimodal reproduction moved to draftspace
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Zoozaz1 talk 22:20, 7 December 2020 (UTC)Your draft article, Draft:Deep Blue Aerospace
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Thank you for your submission to Misplaced Pages! UnitedStatesian (talk) 22:38, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Copying within Misplaced Pages requires attribution
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Speedy deletion nomination of Lucas Silverio Mendoza
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Your draft article, Draft:Isar Aerospace
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Your draft article, Draft:List of orbital launches by year
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Isar Aerospace has been accepted
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Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory
Just a friendly reminder of WP:NOTFORUM... —PaleoNeonate – 22:50, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
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Greenwald
I wouldn't bother with a RfC. I disagree that people are likely to call Greenwald an unreliable source and personally would refute such a characterization or conclusion. However, as a self published source I can't see any way to use Greenwald's self published work as if it were a typical RS. I simply can't see how one gets around WP:SPS in this context. I understand your concerns but this is not a winning plan. If Greenwald is correct in the end I think others will eventually see the same thing even if they don't credit Greenwald for seeing it. Springee (talk) 18:36, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
- Springee - Thanks for your concern. Really, I am not trying to achieve anything else than making the existing de facto ban official. He is practically banned at this moment and the way the ban was done leaves room for interpretations, ambiguity and misunderstandings. NYP is considered to be an unreliable source. Ok, but that was decided using the right procedure - using a RfC. And so deserves Greenwald too. I am not delusional so I'm not trying to change his status. Also I am not trying to raise his status above the status of other SPS, and to try to use his work as RS. There is something else. Misplaced Pages considers Greenwald to be dishonest, having no credibility etc. And that's something totally different than being unreliable because he is a SPS. At this moment, the conclusion is that Greenwald is essentially a bad journalist. That's the issue that I want to debate. I know what the result will be and I have no hope to change it. I just want to make it official, that's all. I hope I made myself understood.
- By the way, I never started any RfC, maybe you can help? :D - I tried Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#RfC_on_Glenn_Greenwald and failed already. -- Barecode (talk) 18:57, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
- The problem is based on the way Misplaced Pages works he shouldn't be a usable source in most cases. Yes, it's crappy that a lot of good journalist have decided to go self published and thus Misplaced Pages can't cite their work. But if that door were to be opened then a lot of really crappy reporters would also be allowed in. This isn't a case of "Misplaced Pages thinks". Misplaced Pages the encycolpedia makes not statement one way or another. Some Misplaced Pages editors think X. When I first started editing I was involved in an article about automobile suspension. This is a subject that I understand and where I happen to know some real experts on the subject. A big issue I ran into was editors citing car magazine where the writers were clearly out of their depth. They were wrong and I could explain why but at the time I didn't understand that, for better and worse, Misplaced Pages is going to stick to "reliable" sources. I found that really frustrating because my personal knowledge and understanding and ability to explain why the sources were wrong, meant very little since I didn't have sources on my side. That is where you are with the material you want to source to Greenwald. You mentioned the NYT as a reliable source. That is true but it didn't come about because of a RfC. The NYT has all the elements that people want to see in a good media source. Thus the NYT is presumed good until shown otherwise. I do agree it seems odd that we would be OK with Greenwald's reports when they were published by the Intercept where he had an editorial freedom agreement . But in the end Misplaced Pages has it's own rules and that means we are stuck needed sources that check certain boxes if we are to use them to make certain claims. Greenwald as a self published source doesn't check those boxes. I mean if I were to start such a RfC I would vote "not reliable" even though I personally think his work is still good if more on the analysis vs factual reporting side of things. Springee (talk) 19:38, 10 December 2021 (UTC)