| Revision as of 16:03, 11 August 2020 editAlanscottwalker (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers74,847 edits OneClickArchiver archived Thai Connection and US Values to Talk:Tammy Duckworth/Archive 1← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 08:27, 11 November 2024 edit undoTom.Reding (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Template editors3,905,061 editsm →top: merge blp/living/activepol params into blp=activepol; cleanupTag: AWB |
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{{FailedGA|02:49, 13 January 2013 (UTC)|topic=Politics and government|page=1}} |
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{{WikiProject Military history |class=B |B-Class-1=yes<!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes<!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes<!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes<!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes |US-task-force=yes |Aviation-task-force=yes}} |
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# ] |
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== Audit == |
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Re. this text: "The Department's lack of controls and record keeping was in place before Duckworth came into office," I'm still not finding that in the . The source says "And then-Illinois Auditor General Bill Holland in 2009 released a fairly critical audit of the department, mostly during Duckworth's tenure, saying that it lacked internal financial controls and records and generally was run in a somewhat sloppy fashion." Where in the source does it say the issues were in place before Duckworth's tenure? ] (]) 18:24, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:The source mentions, "flaws in financial controls that surfaced under both Duckworth and her predecessor" -- ] (]) 18:53, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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::The article says "Despite flaws in financial controls that surfaced under both Duckworth and her predecessor, no action was taken, Crump said." This seems to be an opinion attributed to Crump, who was <s>suing</s> criticizing Duckworth. Regardless, the sentence "The Department's lack of controls and record keeping was in place before Duckworth came into office" is much stronger than what the article says, which is just that there were problems with the predecessor and with Duckworth. Besides, the article says "And then-Illinois Auditor General Bill Holland in 2009 released a fairly critical audit of the department, '''mostly during Duckworth's tenure''', saying that it lacked internal financial controls and records and generally was run in a somewhat sloppy fashion." It seems clear the article (and the audit) are saying the majority of issues were during Duckworth's tenure. I don't think our article as it stands neutrally describes the sourcing, and it should be changed. ] (]) 18:59, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::"Mostly" - it's of course too bad we don't cover the report apart from that quote you give (that "mostly" quote is barely informative let alone NPOV) but "mostly" definitely means not all under Duckworth, and the source goes on to say it was under her predecessor, also, so it is precisely NPOV which requires us to relate that information to give the full context, if we use that source. ] (]) 19:21, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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:::Also, because it is a BLP issue as to Crump, Crump at least as far as that source is concerned did not sue anyone, so you should probably redact that. ] (]) 19:28, 16 August 2016 (UTC) |
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== Official Senate Portrait == |
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Senator Duckworth's official Senate portrait has been released. |
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https://www.duckworth.senate.gov/imo/media/image/Official_Portrait_2017.jpg |
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I'm not good at the image uploading process. Could someone else take the wheel? That way we won't have to use her old House portrait anymore (been over a year now). |
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Cheers! ] (]) 21:57, 3 January 2018 (UTC) |
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== This article violates Misplaced Pages policy. == |
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"Reflecting the strength of the arguments that the subject is a public figure whose personal details are already widely available and reported in high quality sources including those of the government, the consensus weighs heavily toward the fact that while the subject does not desire her DoB to be mentioned in Misplaced Pages, it should be cited in the article. Reflecting the strength of the arguments that the subject is a public figure whose personal details are already widely available and reported in high quality sources including those of the government, the consensus weighs heavily toward the fact that while the subject does not desire her DoB to be mentioned in Misplaced Pages, it should be cited in the article." |
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This is so much bullshit, and highlights a serious problem with Misplaced Pages's enforcement of its policies. Misplaced Pages '''policy''' explicitly states that the date of birth shall not be published if the living subject of the article asks for it not to be published. No "arguments" by editors or "consensus" can override policy. Nothing in the above quoted drivel is relevant. -- ] (]) 11:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:No Misplaced Pages policy requires what you claim. She is a well known public figure and her birth date is public and well established in reliable biography sources. ] (]) 16:25, 21 January 2018 (UTC) |
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::Huh... I just stumbled across this page again, after hearing that Sen. Duckworth is expecting! I participated in the RfC over 4 years ago, and I'm surprised to see that it's still somewhat discussed today! ] (]) 04:52, 24 January 2018 (UTC) |
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:::Well, I think this is the first-time its been resurrected and someone may try to include her children's birth dates, which, no, should not be included. ] (]) 13:59, 24 January 2018 (UTC) |
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::::Yes, I agree with you. ] (]) 05:30, 30 January 2018 (UTC) |
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== BLP policy on minors == |
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Maine has the notability but does it really make sense to remove Abigail’s identity from the prose?--] (]) 04:52, 30 January 2019 (UTC) |
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== Name == |
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Article seems to lack subjects actual name...Ladda Duckworth. (sources:all of them. google it.) ] (]) 17:13, 11 July 2020 (UTC) |
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:Agreed. From a cursory Google search, it looks like her full name is '''Ladda Tammy Duckworth'''. If that's the case, that's what should be used in the lead sentence per ]. ] (]) 22:37, 11 July 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{done}} ] (]) 00:22, 9 August 2020 (UTC) |
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== Natural born US Citizen == |
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There is no dispute that Sen. Duckworth, like many other Americans who have 1 or more American citizen parents when born abroad, is a US citizen. ], ], and ] among others were all born abroad, but the ] of the US Constitution is not explained on the their pages. Many Americans, like a friend of mine who's father was a USAF officer were born on foreign military bases or embassies, or other just when the parents were overseas for some other reason. There is no reason to have the "Under long standing US law, she is a natural-born citizen because her father is American" sentence in the "Early life and education" section. --] (]) 22:09, 10 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Concurring opinion with Rogerd: was passed in 2008 declaring John McCain a "natural-born citizen." which officially (as per the State of Hawaii) as born in the USA. but SCOTUS declined to get involved. for fear it would become a problem. |
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:There are two likely explanations for the "natural-born citizen" clause in the Constitution: 1) to prohibit "high-born" Royals from seizing the US Presidency or 2) to require the president, after ratification of the Constitution, to be a "native-born" American. If the former, Tammy Duckworth is elgible; if the latter, Tammy Duckworth is ineligible. Until a court hears the case against Tammy Duckworth, it is a matter of dispute and not suitable for encyclopedic content. If she doesn't actually end up on the ballot for Vice President or President of the United States, it's not relevant at all to her. I strongly suggest omitting any reference to the issue until it has some legal context attributed to it. Opinion of Congressional Research which makes no mention of the circumstances of Tammy Duckworth nor an article that tongue-in-cheek references the aforementioned opinion is adequate for encyclopedic reference. --] (]) 22:47, 10 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::I disagree about #2. Cruz's, McCain's and George Romney's eligibility were never seriously questioned, despite the fact they were born in Canada, Panama Canal Zone, and Mexico, respectively. McCain was the nominee of a major party. --] (]) 23:23, 10 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{ping|User:Rogerd}}, {{ping|User:FordGT90Concept}} I disagree with Rogerd because of the "Where's the birth certificate?" fake controversy of the Obama years. (Note they don't apply to Cruz the standard they applied to Obama.) The facts ought to be clearly stated before someone attempts to again resurrect this non-issue. But if there's a consensus otherwise, then the consensus should prevail. |
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::] (]) 22:53, 10 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::Huh? Obama was born in the US (although some disputed it), and Duckworth (and the others I cited) were not. BTW, even if Obama had been born outside of the US, (which he clearly wasn't), he would be a natural born citizen because of his mother's citizenship. However, the two situations are unrelated. My point is this is not a big deal and not worth even mentioning in the article, anymore than it is Cruz's, George Romney's, or McCain's. --] (]) 23:23, 10 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::It is a significant enough issue to mention in this article if the reliable sources we use have deemed it a significant enough issue to mention. Otherwise, I agree we should leave it out. After all, if Biden doesn't pick her as veep, the whole convo is moot. – ] (]) 00:07, 11 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:::::What reliable sources? You cite one article by National Review, which is ok, but that it hardly overwhelming evidence that many people are questioning her qualifications. Again, she isn't the first person to potentially be in the running for the top 2 jobs to have been born overseas. --] (]) 14:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::::{{u|Rogerd}}, I think you missed my point. If the reliable sources aren't questioning Duckworth's eligibility, then we shouldn't say anything about it. – ] (]) 15:19, 11 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::::{{ping|User:Rogerd}} Obama's critics falsely claim he's not a natural born citizen because he was born in a foreign country (Kenya) to an American mother. But they do not raise the same issue against Cruz, who was born in a foreign country (Canada) to an American mother. If they argued consistently, Obama being disqualified for a supposedly foreign birth to an American mother would also DQ Cruz, who was born in a foreign country to an American mother. That's my point - inconsistent argumentation. |
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::::] (]) 00:39, 11 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:I suggest removing the sentence about Senator Duckworth being a natural-born citizen from the body of the article and making it an ]. (Also, ''long standing'' ought to be changed to '']'' or ''longstanding''.) —] (]) 04:23, 11 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::I could live with that. --] (]) 14:47, 11 August 2020 (UTC) |
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Referencing and citation: criterion met
