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*RM, 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests → 2019 Hong Kong protests, '''Not moved''', 10 June 2019, ] |
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*RM, 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests → 2019 Hong Kong crisis, '''Not moved''', 2 September 2019, ] |
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*RM, 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests → 2019 Hong Kong protests, '''Moved''', 4 September 2019, ] |
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*RM, 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests → 2019–20 Hong Kong protests, '''Moved''', 1 January 2020, ] |
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*RM, 2019–20 Hong Kong protests → 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests, '''No consensus''', 2 May 2020, ] |
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*RM, 2019–2021 Hong Kong protests → 2019–21 Hong Kong protests, '''Procedural close and moved back to 2019–20 Hong Kong protests''', 31 December 2020, ] |
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| quote4 = A Reuters analysis found a seven-fold surge in edits of the Hong Kong Police Force page over the 10 months to October, compared with a year earlier. Similar spikes occurred in articles about the protests and Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam. |
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*RM, 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests → 2019 Hong Kong protests, '''Not moved''', 10 June 2019, ] |
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*RM, 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests → 2019 Hong Kong protests, '''Moved''', 4 September 2019, ] |
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*RM, 2019–2021 Hong Kong protests → 2019–21 Hong Kong protests, '''Procedural close and moved back to 2019–20 Hong Kong protests''', 31 December 2020, ] |
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*RM, 2019–20 Hong Kong protests → 2019–2021 Hong Kong protests, '''Moved to 2019–2020 Hong Kong protests''', 4 April 2021, ] |
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* <nowiki>]</nowiki> The anchor (#Controversy) is no longer available because it was ] before. <!-- {"title":"Controversy","appear":{"revid":867554580,"parentid":857852028,"timestamp":"2018-11-06T13:35:16Z","removed_section_titles":,"added_section_titles":},"disappear":{"revid":956495747,"parentid":956485034,"timestamp":"2020-05-13T17:45:59Z","removed_section_titles":,"added_section_titles":}} --> |
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== US funding == |
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== The protest are still going on. == |
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The protest are still happening and for the same reasons plus more under CCP China. A correction on the title and some limelight towards their struggle would be nice ] (]) 15:38, 21 July 2021 (UTC) |
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: Do you have any source? ''']''' (]) 22:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC) |
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::I would say ] or even ] may be better article title to cover the post National Security Law Hong Kong. Just one thing i am pretty sure mass scale protest does not exist in Hong Kong now. You want to reflect the real world , create wiki article to cover the mass scale arrest and dissolution of political parties , citing news article should be the real thing to do. ] (]) 18:51, 11 August 2021 (UTC) |
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::: Ok but do you have a reliable source for this? ] (]) 04:51, 24 Aug 2021 (UTC) |
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::::{{ping|TypeKnight03}} Sorry for late reply, but in 2021, some HK people (or most but no action yet) is emigration. https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/09/23/britains-newest-immigrant-group-is-unlike-any-that-came-before |
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::::Or which "you" you want to talk to? Me or Citobun or the ip? ] (]) 04:45, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::: Agree Matthew. As you suggested elsewhere too there are still some protests but they are not mass ones. Whether they are notable and whether they are related to the 2019 and the 2020 ones are another question. ] (]) 13:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC) |
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: There are some very small scale ones. Yes they are small scale (in groups as little as four or even two) but that doesn't mean they don't exist. ] (]) 13:40, 22 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::The problem is people keep want to revive this article to change it to ] or try to RM again and again to Anti-Extradition Law Amendment Bill Movement. Yes, probably media will have mix view on it is the extension of 2019 protests or not, ''if'' there is large scale protest in 2021, but so far nothing really happened and it is November 2021 already. ''If'' large scale protest do exists (say, 1000 people and have media reporting?), just create ]. ] (]) 05:57, 7 November 2021 (UTC) |
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::: Let them eat cake. ] (]) 10:47, 7 November 2021 (UTC) |
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== Article size split == |
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*''' Support split '''- To follow up on ], since there is consensus to split, I suggest reducing the "Reactions", "Impact", "Local media coverage", "Police misconduct", "Online confrontations", "Background", "History" as well as the "Clashes between protesters and counter-protesters" sections to ONE paragraph each, and having the rest covered in the sub articles. Obviously, I am open to suggestions. --] (]) 18:34, 1 August 2021 (UTC) |
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* Why are we having this discussion every other month... Reducing the sections to ONE paragraph is an absurd idea. For instance, the article for ] has way more than just six paragraphs. We probably need a short overview on the changes in Hong Kong one year after the NSL was enacted, but other than, this article is completed and shouldn't be changed significantly. ] (]) 13:38, 2 August 2021 (UTC) |
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:It is How to split need to be discuss. Or noone bold enough to throw out the details and leave the real essence to actually summarize the protest and the impact. ] (]) 18:47, 11 August 2021 (UTC) |
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:*''' Reply '''- {{yo|Matthew hk}}, agreed! --] (]) 22:13, 15 August 2021 (UTC) |
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*'''Strong Support''':This article is far too long, and that topic actually needs and deserves an article. You have my full support on this one.! ] (]) 22:56, 15 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:{{reply|Dunutubble}} we don't need another vote.....the previous discussion has concluded that the article need to be trim . Rather we need discussion on how. ] (]) 00:14, 16 October 2021 (UTC) |
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* '''Comment'''. Agree with Matthew. It's all about how. I saw his message on an online forum and I agree with his reasoning. ] (]) 13:50, 20 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::{{ping|210.6.10.118}} (i know the ping does not work for ip, i just want the layout) Dude...I don't use online forum to discuss en-wikipedia matter (i do use discord and github to discuss POE wiki matter). Or did someone impersonating me? Or did someone just quote me? I am an old guy that CD-rom at LIHKG , as i don't have email to register there. I do have hkgolden.com account ] (]) 23:52, 20 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::{{reply| OceanHok}}, And World War 2 is a bad comparison. World War 2, is world war, it involve many battle, many countries. If you want to be more impactful for this ], dude........can you even do it like 400 words at least in lead? It is way too long as a summary article that people has lost interest to read it. I do read forum that this is new kind of misinfo war by bumping the article with junk or not so important info and detail so that discourage people to actually read it. This article has way many subarticles to place details. ] (]) 01:48, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::And for people in forum . Please create account. DONT use sock. I will submit anyone to ]. Learn to cite newspaper especially wiki widely acceptable source eg. WSJ, FT, The Economist, NYT. Some western media may be bad, some pro-Beijing newspaper may be bad (e.g. HKEJ), but it is necessary evil to use them. (unless they are discussed in ] to not use them) Buy book or borrow it from public library and drop down points (or scanner? pirating the whole book is not recommended btw), even they are published by ], again necessary evil. (Of course on apolitical topic as the company is the mouthpiece of Central Gov) or check the author. I read a book that literally challenged the works by 劉智鵬. You can only add the version that other author rebutting 劉智鵬, or add both versions in articles, as it is harder for wiki editors to act as a professional to judge which version of geo history is right. But some are really common sense that you can easily reject and don't need to mention in wiki article. Also, use talk page more often, please leave discussion of HK topic in ] page. Misplaced Pages is not that accepting the reasoning of we have discussed off-site and don't show the discussion to the public. I.e. Telegram group and discord. You can gossip there but "serious" matter such as which news articles should be used should leave it on wiki article talk page. ] (]) 02:00, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:::No, I am not comparing the protests to the war itself. What I am trying to say is that I have never seen an article documenting history that has one paragraph per session. This is a stupid and absurd proposal. I agree with further trim (I have been involved with efforts to trim the article last year), but I definitely ''disagree'' with trimming the article at such a ''massive'' scale. ] (]) 11:17, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:::: Well said. And that's precisely also what Matthew hk pointed out above on<em> how</em> to split. (And thank you for bringing this up in the forum.) ] (]) 13:35, 22 October 2021 (UTC) |
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* Concur with Matthew hk. Thanks for the notice in the private group. ] (]) 10:51, 28 October 2021 (UTC) |
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{{reply|124.217.189.132}}, {{reply| 219.76.18.205 }} You show up as troll for a block too? ]. ] (]) 15:25, 4 November 2021 (UTC) |
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: What~!? ] (]) 10:53, 7 November 2021 (UTC) |
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:: {{Ping|Matthew hk}}? ] (]) 11:40, 11 November 2021 (UTC) |
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== New session about the Criticism of protesters is needed == |
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The article only mentions police violence, but as far as I know, the protesters also engaged in violent acts such as assaulting police, vandalizing public property, abducting passers-by, and so on. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 02:36, 14 October 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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: The information you need is on https://en.wikipedia.org/Reactions_to_the_2019%E2%80%932020_Hong_Kong_protests. ] (]) 2:16, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::I've seen this page before. However, I believe it is preferable to include this column on the page in order to make the content appear balanced on both sides.] (]) 02:59, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:::We need to fairly represent reliable reference, which seldom means all sides of an argument equally. The ] section does not pull any punches. What exactly do you have in mind? ] (]) 04:04, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::::The information is already adequately included in the radical group subsection/domestic response. I don't think any more elaboration is needed. ] (]) 11:05, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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== October 2021: Lead == |
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The lead was recently changed unilaterally by ] as if the article was moved, and as such it no longer conforms to ]. I do not see any real opposition though aside from myself and I am uninterested in a discussion between just me and them. I think the discussion regarding the title of this article should be revived, and my thoughts are as follows: |
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* A source using the term "2019–2020 Hong Kong protests" or "2019–2021 Hong Kong protests" is not sufficient justification for its inclusion in the lead. The goal is to ] (i.e. avoid, "The 2019–2021 Hong Kong protests are a series of demonstrations since 15 March 2019{{nbsp}}...") |
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* This article is about the Anti-Extradition Law Amendment Bill Movement and the aftermath of its suppression. This article does not cover any protests or demonstrations that occurred in 2021, only the subsequent crackdown. The that uses the term "2019–2021 Hong Kong protests" makes the same mistake. |
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All the best, ] ] 06:42, 14 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:It is to keep pages from contradicting each other. You can also leave comments on the pages that discuss criticism of protesters and about the protests/suppression in 2021 if necessary.<br> All the best☺,] (]) 07:31, 14 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:The title "Anti-Extradition Law Amendment Bill Movement" is kind of a common name in Cantonese, but not really in English. I think we need to accept the fact that there is no more actual act of protest in Hong Kong since July 2020. There is only resentment against the government, but little to no actions to actually defy it in 2021. ] (]) 07:35, 14 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::I doubt ''hrichina'' is deemed a reliable source or not. ] (]) 17:07, 19 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::: Why? But yes they are western. ] (]) 10:52, 7 November 2021 (UTC) |
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== List of updated relevant sites. == |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Timeline_of_reactions_to_the_Hong_Kong_national_security_law_(August_2021)<br> |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Timeline_of_reactions_to_the_Hong_Kong_national_security_law_(September_2021)<br> |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Reactions_to_the_2019%E2%80%932020_Hong_Kong_protests<br> |
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One can leave both negative/positive comments for the protests on the third page.<br> |
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This is a flexible page. ] (]) 2:46, 20 October 2021 (UTC) |
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:This article is way too long. Probably just add a hatnote that ask reader to read another article for post-protest clamp down of Hong Kong freedom and democracy? Feel free to create ] or ], or just ask reader to read ] and the effect of literally nuke the pro-democracy political parties into dust? ] (]) 09:26, 20 October 2021 (UTC) |
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no offense... (no canvassing please.., Matthew.) ] (]) 4:19, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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::Well, now play a game that accuse me canvassing? ] (]) 04:31, 21 October 2021 (UTC) |
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== Protesters violence == |
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While the article has a section about Police misconduct, it is missing a section about Protesters violence. The "Radical group" subsection is created only for violent tactics, and it's not a good place for adding acts of violence which are not part of a tactic. |
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The violence of the protesters is a reality and the topic deserves to be mentioned in the article. At this moment, ] is presented like being part of the event and the article tries to hide the fact that she was killed by a protester, while describing in detail whatever the government and police did wrong. At this moment, protester violence is presented as a somehow heroic tactics of resistance against oppression, tactics that include violence. |
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* The protesters set on fire a construction worker, identified as Mr. Lee, who survived.<ref>https://www.todayonline.com/world/hong-kong-man-set-fire-protesters-november-says-he-will-continue-fight-injustice</ref><ref>https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-and-crime/article/3092549/hong-kong-protests-man-set-fire-says-he-was-standing</ref> |
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* ], a 70-year-old cleaner, died from head injuries sustained after he was hit by a brick thrown by a Hong Kong protester |
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* Journalist beaten in airport, Hong Kong officer mutilated in acid attack and more - |
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] (]) 06:47, 7 December 2021 (UTC) |
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<br>This would be the page you need: |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Reactions_to_the_2019%E2%80%932020_Hong_Kong_protests |
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One can leave both negative/positive comments for the protests on this page.] (]) 06:23, 08 December 2021 (UTC) |
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There was an article from Time that noted US funding of various initiatives associated with the protests. (The article's ostensible topic is the freezing of these funds by the Trump administration.) Some excerpts: |
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:: There is no need for a separate section when these events are mentioned elsewhere in the article. Nor is wanting to specifically highlight "protesters violence" a great reason for creating a separate, redundant subsection. ''']''' (]) 09:21, 9 December 2021 (UTC) |
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* The freeze affected several contracts—estimated by two sources with knowledge of them to be worth around $2 million—that would have directly benefited the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong. |
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* Another initiative hamstrung by the freeze was the OTF’s approximately $500,000 rapid response fund, designed to provide fast relief for civil society groups, protesters, journalists and human rights defenders who have come under digital attack. The fund is open to applicants from around the world, but has made several payouts to groups in Hong Kong since unrest began there in June 2019. |
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* The OTF is little-known outside the world of open source technology, but its funding has contributed to the development of secure communications tools used by protesters in Hong Kong and around the world. It was a key early funder of Signal, the encrypted messaging app of choice for many Hong Kong protesters. Between 2012 and 2016, it donated nearly $3 million to the development of the encryption protocol the app is built on. |
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* Assistance so far, when it has come, has come from bodies at arm’s length from the U.S. government like the OTF and the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), another non-profit predominantly funded by Congress, which spent about $643,000 on Hong Kong programs in 2019. |
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This report was referenced in an editorial for the Hong Kong based paper SCMP which acknowledged its implications. Another potentially usable source on the topic of US involvement (which I don't have access to) is the book "The Other Side of the Story: A Secret War in Hong Kong". ] (]) 00:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC) |
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== Fatalities and injuries chapter needed == |
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::: {{u|Citobun}} {{u|Dgtdddsx123}} - So you agree such incidents of violence can be mentioned in the "Radical group" subsection? ] (]) 09:48, 9 December 2021 (UTC) |
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Nowadays, media is full of news of protests. It reminded me of infamous Tiananmen and Yellow Vest. Visited both and noticed both articles have dedicated chapters for deaths and injuries. I was curious to compare with the infamous Hk protest and the number of deaths and injuries but there's no dedicated chapter in this article and very difficult to find info on the deaths. I think for such an important protest, deaths and injuries are significant enough to deserve a dedicated chapter yet it's surprising to me that nobody created one. Perhaps it's lack of interest but I think one should be created. But is there a particular reason on why there shouldn't be one? If there's no reason, may I request Misplaced Pages to do consider to create one and fill in the info? ] (]) 03:18, 3 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:::: One can leave both negative/positive comments/own feelings for the protests on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/Reactions_to_the_2019%E2%80%932020_Hong_Kong_protests. Of course, don't be too aggressive:) ] (]) 11:39, 09 December 2021 (UTC) |
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:::::I concur with Citobun that this shouldn't be a section. Luo and the guy who was lit on fire were already discussed in the article and there is no point repeating again. We tried to avoid discussing singlular incident unless it was very important and notable. This page is not meant to be an exhaustive list of violent actions. I don't see any problem with mentioning violence against police in the radical section. ] (]) 12:30, 9 December 2021 (UTC) |
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{{unindent}} I haven't noticed that those things were mentioned in the article already. I apologize. ] (]) 13:50, 9 December 2021 (UTC) |
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This report was referenced in an editorial for the Hong Kong based paper SCMP which acknowledged its implications. Another potentially usable source on the topic of US involvement (which I don't have access to) is the book "The Other Side of the Story: A Secret War in Hong Kong". Ham Pastrami (talk) 00:37, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
Nowadays, media is full of news of protests. It reminded me of infamous Tiananmen and Yellow Vest. Visited both and noticed both articles have dedicated chapters for deaths and injuries. I was curious to compare with the infamous Hk protest and the number of deaths and injuries but there's no dedicated chapter in this article and very difficult to find info on the deaths. I think for such an important protest, deaths and injuries are significant enough to deserve a dedicated chapter yet it's surprising to me that nobody created one. Perhaps it's lack of interest but I think one should be created. But is there a particular reason on why there shouldn't be one? If there's no reason, may I request Misplaced Pages to do consider to create one and fill in the info? 49.195.45.133 (talk) 03:18, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
