| Revision as of 01:27, 26 July 2023 editGalehautt (talk | contribs)427 edits →Materials by Nazi ministry of propaganda: ReplyTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Reply← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 22:47, 2 January 2025 edit undo2a02:a472:12a6:0:81bd:1ed5:3c90:c0ce (talk) →maps: new sectionTag: New topic |
| (15 intermediate revisions by 12 users not shown) |
| Line 1: |
Line 1: |
|
{{Skip to talk}} |
|
{{Skip to talk}} |
|
⚫ |
{{Talk header}} |
|
{{On this day|date1=2004-06-26|oldid1=5150581|date2=2005-06-26|oldid2=16335270|date3=2005-08-23|oldid3=21616042|date4=2006-06-26|oldid4=60744893|date5=2006-08-23|oldid5=71483276|date6=2007-08-23|oldid6=153079591|date7=2008-08-23|oldid7=233685337|date8=2009-08-23|oldid8=309510874|date9=2010-08-23|oldid9=380512030|date10=2015-08-23|oldid10=677129501|date11=2019-08-23|oldid11=912058007}} |
|
{{On this day|date1=2004-06-26|oldid1=5150581|date2=2005-06-26|oldid2=16335270|date3=2005-08-23|oldid3=21616042|date4=2006-06-26|oldid4=60744893|date5=2006-08-23|oldid5=71483276|date6=2007-08-23|oldid6=153079591|date7=2008-08-23|oldid7=233685337|date8=2009-08-23|oldid8=309510874|date9=2010-08-23|oldid9=380512030|date10=2015-08-23|oldid10=677129501|date11=2019-08-23|oldid11=912058007|date12=2024-08-23|oldid12=1241613205}} |
| ⚫ |
{{WikiProject banner shell|1 = |
|
|
{{WikiProject Estonia |
|
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1 = |
|
⚫ |
{{WikiProject Estonia |importance = Mid }} |
|
|class = B |
|
|
|importance = Mid |
|
{{WikiProject Lithuania|importance=Mid|comments=}} |
|
⚫ |
{{WikiProject Latvia|importance=Mid|comments=}} |
|
|b1 <!--Referencing & citations--> = no |
|
|
|
{{WikiProject Moldova |importance = Mid |comments = }} |
|
|b2 <!--Coverage and accuracy --> = yes |
|
|
⚫ |
{{WikiProject Poland| importance = Mid}} |
|
|b3 <!--Structure --> = yes |
|
|
⚫ |
{{WikiProject Germany |importance = High |comments = }} |
|
|b4 <!--Grammar and style --> = yes |
|
|
|
{{WikiProject Soviet Union|importance=High}} |
|
|b5 <!--Supporting materials --> = yes |
|
|
|b6 <!--Accessible --> = yes |
|
|
}} |
|
| ⚫ |
{{WikiProject Lithuania|class=B|importance=Mid|comments=}} |
|
| ⚫ |
{{WikiProject Latvia|class=B|importance=Mid|comments=}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Moldova |
|
|
|class = B |
|
|
|importance = Mid |
|
|
|comments = |
|
|
|b1 <!--Referencing & citations--> = no |
|
|
|b2 <!--Coverage and accuracy --> = yes |
|
|
|b3 <!--Structure --> = yes |
|
|
|b4 <!--Grammar and style --> = yes |
|
|
|b5 <!--Supporting materials --> = yes |
|
|
|b6 <!--Accessible --> = yes}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Poland |
|
|
| class = B |
|
|
| importance = Mid |
|
|
| b1 <!--Referencing & citations--> = no |
|
|
| b2 <!--Coverage & accuracy --> = yes |
|
|
| b3 <!--Structure --> = yes |
|
|
| b4 <!--Grammar & style --> = yes |
|
|
| b5 <!--Supporting materials --> = yes |
|
|
| b6 <!--Accessibility --> = yes}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Germany |
|
|
|class = B |
|
|
|importance = High |
|
|
|comments = |
|
|
|b1 <!--Referencing & citations--> = no |
|
|
|b2 <!--Coverage and accuracy --> = yes |
|
|
|b3 <!--Structure --> = yes |
|
|
|b4 <!--Grammar and style --> = yes |
|
|
|b5 <!--Supporting materials --> = yes |
|
|
|b6 <!--Accessible --> = yes}} |
|
| ⚫ |
{{WikiProject Soviet Union|class=B|importance=High}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Military history |
|
{{WikiProject Military history |
|
|class= B |
|
|class= B |
| Line 61: |
Line 27: |
|
|Baltic= y |
|
|Baltic= y |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
{{WikiProject Russia|class=B|importance=High|hist=yes|mil=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject Russia|importance=High|hist=yes|mil=yes}} |
|
{{WikiProject International relations|class=B|importance=Low}} |
|
{{WikiProject International relations|importance=Low}} |
|
{{WikiProject Finland |class=B |importance=Mid}} |
|
{{WikiProject Finland|importance=Mid}} |
|
|
{{WikiProject Ukraine|importance=high}} |
|
}} |
|
}} |
| ⚫ |
{{Talk page header}} |
|
|
|
|
|
|
{{archives |bot=MiszaBot I |age=2 |units=months |auto=long |
|
{{archives |bot=MiszaBot I |age=2 |units=months |auto=long |
| Line 78: |
Line 44: |
|
|archive = Talk:Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact/Archive %(counter)d |
|
|archive = Talk:Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact/Archive %(counter)d |
|
}} |
|
}} |
|
|
|
|
==President Roosevelt and Winston Churchill== |
|
|
Of high relevance is that US President Theodore Roosevelt died after the Yalta Conference with Winston Churchill (and Joseph Stalin), and we believe the accounts of post World War II are highly inaccurate due to that fact. Documents from that period in Polish history in native language which are startling given Polish lands considered as frontiers in Europe! Julia Centka Bien of Poland WWI immigration to US already had five children as veterans from WWII! |
|
|
] (]) 19:33, 17 May 2022 (UTC)JARacino] (]) 19:33, 17 May 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
Can you rephrase that or something, I am struggling to see the relevance of your statements to the topic of the Pact. Theodore Roosevelt died in 1919, just FYI. As far as FDR (the wheelchair polio duy), how is him dying after the pact lost all relevance supposed to affect this article? ] (]) 10:05, 5 July 2022 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== Materials by Nazi ministry of propaganda == |
|
== Materials by Nazi ministry of propaganda == |
| Line 106: |
Line 66: |
|
|
|
|
|
:It turns out that the USSR was an ally of Germany, and Great Britain and the USA were allies of the USSR, which means they were all in the Axis ? Or let's talk about how the Central Bank of England admitted that before World War II it helped the Third Reich sell gold that was stolen in Czechoslovakia on the European market? https://www.bbc.com/news/business-23513654 . Or how Poland, in alliance with Hitler, took away the territories of Czechoslovakia and Lithuania? Or how did neutral European countries, like Sweden, supply resources to the Third Reich until the end of World War II? It becomes very uncomfortable when you start to learn uncomfortable facts. Regarding the trade between the USSR and Germany, let me remind you that the USSR was a state that on its shoulders bore the burden of the deprivations of the First World War, the Civil War, and monstrous devastation, the USSR needed to increase the number of machine tools, technologies and equipment on the eve of the inevitable war with Germany, but reading the opinions of modern sofa historians, it seems that you all would like the USSR to lose that terrible war, but then there would be no one here to write your perverted history ... ] (]) 17:20, 15 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
:It turns out that the USSR was an ally of Germany, and Great Britain and the USA were allies of the USSR, which means they were all in the Axis ? Or let's talk about how the Central Bank of England admitted that before World War II it helped the Third Reich sell gold that was stolen in Czechoslovakia on the European market? https://www.bbc.com/news/business-23513654 . Or how Poland, in alliance with Hitler, took away the territories of Czechoslovakia and Lithuania? Or how did neutral European countries, like Sweden, supply resources to the Third Reich until the end of World War II? It becomes very uncomfortable when you start to learn uncomfortable facts. Regarding the trade between the USSR and Germany, let me remind you that the USSR was a state that on its shoulders bore the burden of the deprivations of the First World War, the Civil War, and monstrous devastation, the USSR needed to increase the number of machine tools, technologies and equipment on the eve of the inevitable war with Germany, but reading the opinions of modern sofa historians, it seems that you all would like the USSR to lose that terrible war, but then there would be no one here to write your perverted history ... ] (]) 17:20, 15 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
::There's no need to be insulting; Misplaced Pages editors (and professional historians) are far from a monolith, politically or otherwise. It's unclear from your comments if you feel there are changes needed to this article; if so, some specifics would be helpful. -- ] (]) 00:24, 24 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
::Which country invaded Poland in September 1939 along with Nazi Germany? Was it the US, UK, or Germany? Oh that's right, it was the USSR. Funny how countries that are involved in an invasion of a third country are generally considered allies. ] (]) 22:13, 25 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
:I'm not sure there was any particular political agenda behind the article describing the pact as not an alliance. That assertion was sourced to a journal article. It's entirely possible someone read that article, found it interesting, and added details from it to this article. It's certainly true that opinions may differ about what are the best words to describe the pact. It would be more helpful to find sources that ''do'' call the pact an alliance and note the difference of opinion, than to insult the entire community of Misplaced Pages editors and call them biased for an addition by one editor presumably made in good faith. Another editor has since removed the assertion from the intro, so it seems there's no further action to be taken. -- ] (]) 00:22, 24 February 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
== Soviet - Nazi Germany non-aggression pact time line == |
|
== Soviet troops in Poland == |
|
|
|
|
|
⚫ |
@] Regardin this edit I think it's still worth having this information in the article, possibly more clearly described - it's now a permanent trope in Russian propaganda that "Poland refused Soviet help and this is why it was invaded by Hitler". The fact that "Soviet help" was equivalent to Soviet occupation is conveniently skipped in these narratives. ] (]) 08:27, 14 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
The timeline in this page of treaty negotiations starting on 22 August and concluded the day after, after factually incorrect and constitute Russian propaganda. It contradicts other parts of this page. The preparation negotiations were done by Nazi Germany’s Ambassador to Russia Graf Von der Schulenberg and started with a invitation by Molotov to Schulenberg on May 20th 1939 and a draft version exists from August 19th. The treaty was finalized between August 14th - august 23th 1939. Source translated German documents https://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/nazsov.asp |
|
|
⚫ |
:Agree the Poles blocked any crossing of their border by Soviet armies. HOWEVER what I deleted was a misleading news story to the effect that Stalin was "prepared to move more than a million Soviet troops" against Germany. There was a draft memo to that effect in the Russian archives. BUT the news story quotes historian Donald Cameron Watt showing that the Soviets never told the British or French that. So the "million troops" offer never happened. ] (]) 10:27, 14 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== The entire second paragraph of 'Beginning of secret talks' is at best superfluous == |
|
During that periode the negotiations with the Allied forces were still ongoing but became pointless after ratification of treaty by the Duma a week later followed the next day by the invasion of Poland by Nazi Germany. ] (]) 08:54, 18 May 2023 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The pomp and circumstance of the diplomatic meeting is not relevant. The fourth paragraph is also irrelevant to the topic. I recommend complete removal of the 4th paragraph, and rewriting the 2nd paragraph in a less florid, more simple 'stating the facts' manner, as is done for e.g.: |
|
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/Minsk_agreements ] (]) 11:49, 29 April 2024 (UTC) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
== maps == |
|
|
|
|
|
|
I suggest to add maps that show the division of territories under the pact and the division as it turned our after Gergmany conquered Poland. ] (]) 22:47, 2 January 2025 (UTC) |
|
== Soviet troops in Poland == |
|
|
|
|
| ⚫ |
@] Regardin this edit I think it's still worth having this information in the article, possibly more clearly described - it's now a permanent trope in Russian propaganda that "Poland refused Soviet help and this is why it was invaded by Hitler". The fact that "Soviet help" was equivalent to Soviet occupation is conveniently skipped in these narratives. ] (]) 08:27, 14 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
| ⚫ |
:Agree the Poles blocked any crossing of their border by Soviet armies. HOWEVER what I deleted was a misleading news story to the effect that Stalin was "prepared to move more than a million Soviet troops" against Germany. There was a draft memo to that effect in the Russian archives. BUT the news story quotes historian Donald Cameron Watt showing that the Soviets never told the British or French that. So the "million troops" offer never happened. ] (]) 10:27, 14 July 2023 (UTC) |
|
The article includes statements by Nazi ministry of propaganda, e.g. accusing USSR of agression which makes Nazi & their allies invasion a preventive action. These claims were found false in Nuremberg trials with a lot of evidence to support this ruling. The trial materials are open. No word of that. Also critical details are omitted. For example, the territories USSR took from Poland were Russian territories occupied by Poland 20 years prior, right after Soviet Russia granted intependance to Poland. Also what was the official state ideology in Poland of the time? It was Nazism. Poland was the first coutry in Europe to sign a pact with Nazi Germany. Any word of that? No. That's your typical Misplaced Pages "freedom": whitewashing Nazi is all fine, telling truth about USSR is a no-no. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.104.199.51 (talk) 15:34, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
I love how many lies there are in this article solely for left wing political reasons. For example, this article falsely claims the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact did not result in an alliance. It provably did, evidenced by the immediate and massive increase in war materiel sent to the Nazis by the Soviets after the pact signed. Why do we lie that they weren’t in alliance, and cite random personal novels to support this claim?
Do editors here think that people, not far right conservatives or far leftists, don’t see what you’re all doing? It’s overwhelmingly clear that you always tilt the narrative towards left wing interpretations that are almost invariably factually incorrect. 2600:1700:FC80:1CC0:40F8:72C:CF4B:C797 (talk) 19:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=small}
Referencing and citation: criterion not met
Coverage and accuracy: criterion met
.svg)
