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::Also, why did you change the capitalization of the article title to different than that that ''Variety'' uses? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 8.8% of all ].</sub></span> 09:51, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
::Also, why did you change the capitalization of the article title to different than that that ''Variety'' uses? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 8.8% of all ].</sub></span> 09:51, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
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::I've already acknolwedged my error and shortened my proposed addition so I'm not sure why your response is towards only my prior (very lengthy) error on my part.
::I've already acknolwedged my error and shortened my proposed addition so I'm not sure why your response is towards only my prior (very lengthy) error on my part.
::The Telegraph article gives direct quotes to the original tweet and her response quesioning it. What claim am I giving undue weight by noting what happened? Comments relating the whether or not a person deny the recorded actions of Nazis are a thing that should be mentioned. ] (]) 00:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
::The Telegraph article gives direct quotes to the original tweet and her response quesioning it. What claim am I giving undue weight by noting what happened? Comments relating the whether or not a person deny the recorded actions of Nazis are a thing that should be mentioned. ] (]) 00:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
== Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2025 ==
{{edit semi-protected|J. K. Rowling|answered=1}}
change "...is a British author and philanthropist." to "...is a British author, anti-LGBT+ rights activist and philanthropist." ] (]) 10:37, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
:This has been the subject of a lot of discussions recently, and there is no consensus for adding this label. Given the short period of time between the last discussion and now (a matter of days; see the Barbra Banda section for example), I don't think it's worth starting another one for the moment. ] (]) 11:59, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
h] '''Not done for now''': please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> (]) | (PS: Have a good day) (acer was here) 12:12, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
== Move phrase "which left transgender people feeling betrayed" ==
Currently, in the Views --> Transgender People section, the final paragraph contains the sentence "In an essay posted on her website in June 2020 – which left transgender people feeling betrayed – Rowling said her views on women's rights sprang from her experience of domestic abuse and sexual assault."
The phrase "which left transgender people feeling betrayed" feels very out of place in this paragraph, in which her views, and the basis for them, are explained. Personally I find the phrase a little problematic (e.g. nonspecific; which trans people?), but if it is to be included, I think it would fit better in the 2nd or 4th paragraphs, which list the reactions to her statements/views.
Wanted to get opinions on a) if this sounds reasonable and b) if so, how it might best be done. ] (]) 11:56, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
:The current phrasing doesn't allow for her opinion to be presented neutrally. It should be split up as you stated. A quick way to solve this could be to move the reaction to the end of the paragraph, or right before the assertion of Whited? ] (]) 15:01, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
::Yeah, it actually fits quite well with the final sentence regarding Whited. I'd support moving it to the end of the paragraph. ] (]) 15:30, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
::I think it should be made a bit more specific though. I can't access the source unfortunately, but the current wording could mean every trans person in the world or a small group of them. If the source says something like 'transgender fans of her books', that would be a better wording I think. ] (]) 15:34, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
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J. K. Rowling's ethnicity/nationality has been discussed here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here and here. Current consensus is that she is British, and that whether she is also English, Scottish or Welsh has no bearing on her work or her biography, and is best not discussed.
The topic of her middle name has been discussed here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. Her full name is simply Joanne Rowling; she contracted the first name and chose the middle initial K from her grandmother's name, Kathleen, in order to remove the gender association from her own name.
Her married name has been discussed here, here, here, here, here and here. She uses her married name, Murray, for private business, but her maiden name, "Rowling", is used here, as it is the one by which she is most widely known.
The pronunciation of her name has been discussed here, here, here, here and here. She has commented that her name is pronounced like bowling and not like howling.
Allegations that she supports communism in the series have been discussed here, here, here, here, here and here. She has not publicly espoused any such views; attempts to describe such views in her works have been rejected as original research of published material.
If you have a question relating to the spelling in this article (such as "instalment"/"installment") remember that this article is written in British English.
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Putting aside the misrepresentation of Rowling's issue here, and the fact that her comments on Banda are not even related to trans issues, the article does not classify Rowling as an 'anti-transgender activist', meaning it is not appropriate to put the article in such a category.Daff22 (talk) 15:20, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Per Daff22. Arbeiten8, please have a look at a broader sampling of unbiased sources, along with the scores of times the same discussion has been had on this talk page, and in particular, the high quality sources required for a Featured article. And I believe we have the same situation with this. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:32, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Rowling is the textbook definition of what is transphobia. She has
#Misgendered trans people
#Misgendered cis people who she perceived as the wrong gender like India Willoughby
#Authored the book Troubled Blood & The Silkworm claiming that trans women are supervillains wanting to rape women casting "trans women as a threat" according to GLAAD
Rowling, meanwhile, has made her campaign against trans identity the central focus of her online persona. On Sept. 10, she posted the U.K. open casting call for the roles of Harry Potter, Hermione Granger and Ron Weasley to her 14.2 million followers on X. That was an exception: Over the next two months, Rowling posted or reposted more than 200 times (excluding replies) about trans-related issues to support her conviction, as she posted on Oct. 7, that gender identity “is defined by little more than a person’s subjective feelings, or (more accurately) their claim to feel those feelings.” Within the same time frame, she posted or reposted about Harry Potter just eight more times, [...[
The industry has never quite faced a scenario in which the sole creator of a beloved, multibillion-dollar global franchise has plunged so unabashedly into one of the culture’s most contentious social issues. She’s effectively made herself toxic to many within the core fandom, whose devotion began 25 years ago when they were children and has sustained the franchise long after the books and the film series concluded. It’s placed those fans in a vexing dilemma: How can they engage with the new show, or any other iteration of the franchise, if they vehemently disagree with Rowling’s views on gender identity?
This debate has been had a number of times now, and it has become abundantly clear that there is no consensus for adding that label. TBicks (talk) 00:30, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
I know we've had this discussion multiple times before and the consensus prior is that, despite Rowling's actions over the past few years, it doesn't relate much to her overall career and ongoing notability. As of yet. And the latter sentence was noted in those discussions as well. I do wonder, though, at where that line is and how long is needed of her continuing this ongoing bigotry that had been all she's gotten reporting on for years now before we can actually change or add to the article about this being a new main part of her ongoing notability. There is a time amount and line where that would be true, right? Silverseren00:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Probably? Assuming reliable sources start commonly calling/alluding to her being an anti-transgender activist, I don't see why not.
The problem in past discussions seems to have boiled down not to whether she is anti-transgender (I think she's made her gender critical views clear by this point), but to if she is an activist. Few of the RSs previously discussed actually describe her that way, and there's no consensus thusfar as to if simple speech on Twitter constitutes activism (especially given the absence of campaigning elsewhere).
Anyhow, it's only been a couple of months since the last time this was discussed, and in the absence of new developments, we can't keep reigniting this every time someone wants to link some poor quality sources (LGBTQ Nation is hardly unbiased on this issue). TBicks (talk) 01:17, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Rowling also indicated that Trump's 2024 electoral win is because of the triumph of transphobia (Kamala is for they/them): According to her, the only reason that she couldn't positively declare ""Trump's win was down to the gender stuff" is because she isn't an American voter
Also, would I be wrong in stating that if Rowling were a WP user engaging in this unrepentant rhetoric, then she' be banned?
We have articles like ] claiming that the subject is a white supremacist in spite of Fuentes's denial. On the other hand, when Rowling is accused of transphobia, she retorts that she doesn't care and is "indifferent to your disapproval."
I think people can common sense. We don't need a hundreds sources to run a headline to the effect "Rowling is the great transphobic author of all time in human history" to decide that 2+2=4 Arbeiten8 (talk) 02:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
I think the goalposts keep moving. We have reliable sources directly talking about it now. But they'll probably insist on peer-reviewed papers, and if those are presented, will say they're not as good as ones from 10 years ago, which don't mention her transphobia. Adam CuerdenHas about 8.8% of all FPs.15:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
A little more AGF, please, Adam Cuerden. At least a few of us insist on good sourcing because we believe in enforcing FA standards - please look through the FAR archives, if you believe I am doing so out of some loyalty to Rowling. I note that we last exhaustively revised the relevant section five months ago. Has Rowling done enough since then to merit another revision? I'm inclined to think not. Also: the splashiest headlines of the last few months have been ostensibly unrelated to trans people: she has criticized Imane Khelif and Barbra Banda for not appearing feminine enough, despite them being cis-women, as far as the world knows. This could arguably be worked into her views, but it would really be stretching a point to use this as justification for "anti-transgender activist". Vanamonde93 (talk) 16:54, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
No, @Adam Cuerden... although featured articles should have a higher quality requirement for sources, as long as the preponderance of reliable sources (of any variety) suggest something, there is no reason not to add it. The goalposts have remained firmly in the same place.
As already mentioned, there is little mention of her being an activist in reliable sources. I don't think people are seriously suggesting that she isn't anti-trans any more, but to label her an activist requires more than just RSs pointing out that she says mean stuff on twitter. TBicks (talk) 16:56, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
Like, the Variety piece says anti-trans activity is the central focus of her online persona. I don't think that's particularly ambiguous, and if the only objection is exact wording, we could literally quote theirs. "In 2024, Variety wrote that Rowling 'has made her campaign against trans identity the central focus of her online persona.'" Adam CuerdenHas about 8.8% of all FPs.15:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm not opposed to adding that sentence into the relevant paragraph on her trans views.
That's different to actually labelling her an "Anti-trans Activist" in wikivoice, which is what was suggested by Arbeiten8. As I mentioned, simply quoting a single RS like Variety would be insufficient for that change - it would require much more significant usage in RSs than has been presented thusfar. TBicks (talk) 16:20, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm not actually opposed to inserting that quote in the body, because it is summarizing what the popular press has to say about her online presence in a way that most sources don't do. It remains insufficient for the "anti-trans activist" label, though. Vanamonde93 (talk) 16:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
Separately from not seeing consensus for this edit to the lead (there was some support for adding it to the body), it takes the transgender portion of the lead to 72 words of readable prose out of a total lead size of 450 words (16% of the lead). In an article of 8,861 words of readable prose, the transgender section is 488 words, which is less than 6% of the article. The lead is giving undue weight to the transgender content, and if that quote (which I believe to be excessive) is to be included, some trimming of the overall lead content about the transgender issue is needed. The edit also adds content to the lead that is not mentioned in the body. I have moved the quote to the body, removed content that was mentioned twice in the body (?!), and repaired the citation to respect WP:CITEVAR and WP:WIAFA 2c. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 07:19, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I think that it massively improves the lead. We can cut other parts of it, but compare:
The sentences that are the problem are all the other ones, because they say exeedingly little. "her opinions on transgender people and related civil rights" says basically nothing. The way it's phrased, she could be a huge trans ally. And then "Her comments, described as transphobic by critics and LGBT rights organisations, have divided feminists, fuelled debates on freedom of speech and cancel culture, and prompted declarations of support for transgender people from the culture sector." - again, a lot of talk, of questionable weight, (did she really "divide feminists", or was there an extant division she highlighted. The phrasing of "prompted declarations of support for transgender people from the culture sector." is also odd.
The whole transgender section, without the Variety quote, is written in this weird passive voice, where it's stated that Rowling said... something about transgender people, no comment whatsoever about what, and the rest of that section is solely about the reactions to it, again written in vagueness.
The Variety quote, however, makes it clear why talking about her views on transgender people is important enough to be in the lead in the first place. We can trim down the reaction to her statements sentences far more profitably. Adam CuerdenHas about 8.8% of all FPs. 09:12, 15 January 2025 (UTC) Adam CuerdenHas about 8.8% of all FPs.09:12, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Cmon, there was no consensus for adding this to the lead. A few of us were okay with adding it to the body, but there certainly wasn't any suggestion of the lead changing in the talk page.
As for "her opinions on transgender people and related civil rights" not being clear, I think the fact that it's immediately followed by "Her comments, described as transphobic by critics" pretty much clears up which way her comments lean. TBicks (talk) 16:18, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
Also, why did you change the capitalization of the article title to different than that that Variety uses? Adam CuerdenHas about 8.8% of all FPs.09:51, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
I have moved this comment to its own section, so the substantive discussion isn't derailed, and so I can reply at length when I next get a free moment. This is standard WP:WIAFA 2c, and WP:CITEVAR; Misplaced Pages, like most outlets, has its own manual of style. I have a very busy day, will reply at more length over the weekend. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:31, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
I believe a general overview of her comment on this topic should be added to the main page. It garnered considerable attention from both the general public and media. This holds as much relevance as other inclusions, like her disaproval of the phrase "people who menstrate." My suggestion would be to add the following statment, including the Telegraph article as a source as it lacks bias against Joanne. Although, it does contain some mischaracterising of events about the reasonings of Brown to defend Rowling's comments so I would be open to an improved source as it does bias towards Joanne.
I don't know what that sentence even means. She 'questioned it'? The Nazis were a pretty questionable bunch! I think I see what you're getting at but even so, she didn't explicitly say "That Nazi book burning of the research into transgender healthcare at the Institut für Sexualwissenschaftevent was a fever dream", neither does your source say that's what she meant, to read that into it is WP:OR. JeffUK23:08, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
"Rowling had last month questioned a claim made by one social media user who said: “The Nazis burnt books on trans healthcare and research, why are you so desperate to uphold their ideology around gender?”"
It uses the term "questioned" in the article and refers to the Nazi book burning. The only thing being "read into" is that it's only about the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft. We should make the statment more general then as needed. We should then add a new source to show the connection between trans research and the Nazi book burnings. The Misplaced Pages article for the institue should have a source that would suffice (not the article itself as that doesn't suffice) as it has sourced that one of the focuses of the institute included trangender healthcare.
Also, I am still open to a better source as the telegraph is biased towards Rowling. Open to suggestions.
-
In March 2024, Rowling questioned whether or not the Nazis practised book burning in regards to research into transgender healthcare as a "fever dream" in reply to a user on Twitter, officially known as X. The Nazis did burn the research of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, which had a focus on transgender healthcare. Pink Pyra (talk) 23:39, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
In March 2024, Rowling questioned the claim that Nazis burnt research on transgender healthcare, referring to the claim as being a "fever dream" in response to a user on Twitter, officially known as X. The Nazis did burn the research of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, which had a focus on transgender healthcare. Pink Pyra (talk) 23:46, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
At first glance this strikes me like "nothing burger" and misrepresentation of the given source (being primarily about false holocaust denial claims). So presumably she was not aware that that transliterture/research was burned at the book burning as well and due to her antitrans bias assumed it was not the case and dismissed an according claim offhand without checking? Is that the core issue here? I neither really observed much of "considerable attention" (outside a social media bubble maybe) nor do i see any eny encyclopedic value. This article needs to shortly summarize her antitrans views and not collect any individual antitrans remark she makes.--Kmhkmh (talk) 23:59, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
I disagree that denying recorded Nazi crimes is a "nothing burger" just because she may have actually believed she was in the right due to ignorance. We potentially shouldn't assume the motive behind her action, but if we do assume that, the core issue would be her non-retraction and continued rebuttal of criticism. This would show pertinent "antitrans" views in her unwilligness to admit error when trans people are concerned which I believe would still warrent mention. Pink Pyra (talk) 00:15, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
A discussion was already underway at the sub-article, and already mentioned on this talk page in the section just above this one. This article is a broad overview of JKR, and conforms to Featured article standards in terms of summary style and high-quality sources. Due weight is given according to reliable sources. In an article with 8,800 words of readable prose, of which 250 words total were dedicated to JKR's politics (due weight in accordance with high-quality and scholarly sources), 117 to her relationship with the press, and 488 in the transgender issues section, these edits added 209 words on a subject that is mostly absent in mainstream sources, and not treated at all in scholarly sources as far as I can tell. Due weight for the sub-article-- much less this article-- has not been established. Pink Pyra when you have been reverted once -- and particularly on a contentious topic which is also a BLP and also a Featured article -- you should avoid edit warring and not reinstate without consensus. It will take much more than a few reliable sources to establish due weight in this broad overview article; you should first work on whether the content belongs at the sub-article, where even there it appears UNDUE in terms of the number of sources that mention it. You were reverted once, yet reinstated content without gaining consensus on talk. Please take greater care when editing a Featured article; I suggest pursuing the discussion already underway at the sub-article before continuing here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:52, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
I've already acknolwedged my error and shortened my proposed addition so I'm not sure why your response is towards only my prior (very lengthy) error on my part.
The Telegraph article gives direct quotes to the original tweet and her response quesioning it. What claim am I giving undue weight by noting what happened? Comments relating the whether or not a person deny the recorded actions of Nazis are a thing that should be mentioned. Pink Pyra (talk) 00:06, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2025
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This has been the subject of a lot of discussions recently, and there is no consensus for adding this label. Given the short period of time between the last discussion and now (a matter of days; see the Barbra Banda section for example), I don't think it's worth starting another one for the moment. TBicks (talk) 11:59, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
Move phrase "which left transgender people feeling betrayed"
Currently, in the Views --> Transgender People section, the final paragraph contains the sentence "In an essay posted on her website in June 2020 – which left transgender people feeling betrayed – Rowling said her views on women's rights sprang from her experience of domestic abuse and sexual assault."
The phrase "which left transgender people feeling betrayed" feels very out of place in this paragraph, in which her views, and the basis for them, are explained. Personally I find the phrase a little problematic (e.g. nonspecific; which trans people?), but if it is to be included, I think it would fit better in the 2nd or 4th paragraphs, which list the reactions to her statements/views.
The current phrasing doesn't allow for her opinion to be presented neutrally. It should be split up as you stated. A quick way to solve this could be to move the reaction to the end of the paragraph, or right before the assertion of Whited? Vestigium Leonis (talk) 15:01, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
Yeah, it actually fits quite well with the final sentence regarding Whited. I'd support moving it to the end of the paragraph. TBicks (talk) 15:30, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
I think it should be made a bit more specific though. I can't access the source unfortunately, but the current wording could mean every trans person in the world or a small group of them. If the source says something like 'transgender fans of her books', that would be a better wording I think. TBicks (talk) 15:34, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
level-5 vital article is rated FA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the