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Revision as of 20:23, 11 June 2007 editH (talk | contribs)23,582 edits →Break 3← Previous edit Revision as of 20:23, 11 June 2007 edit undoChrislk02 (talk | contribs)29,820 edits →ChicagoPimp: closing the rfcnNext edit →
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{{#if:{{{1|}}}|The result was: {{{1}}}}} '''Allow''' - There was a heated debate but it appears that the consensus that there are more recent definitions of the term meaning, "extravagent" such as in the television show . THis name also does not promote the profession of pimping, however just states pimp. If it said, "pimps are great", or "pimping is the best", that would be a different story. Also, this particular editor has explained his name and has no ill intentions from this name. ] 20:23, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
===ChicagoPimp=== ===ChicagoPimp===
{{user|ChicagoPimp}} {{user|ChicagoPimp}}
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::KP You are the one seeing this the statement about women, it is not actually there in the name. Unless there are more than false dichotomies to present this needs to be closed as allow. This isn't about gender it is about the fact that the name does not say what you are saying it says. ]<!-- Was HighInBC --> 20:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC) ::KP You are the one seeing this the statement about women, it is not actually there in the name. Unless there are more than false dichotomies to present this needs to be closed as allow. This isn't about gender it is about the fact that the name does not say what you are saying it says. ]<!-- Was HighInBC --> 20:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:Red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page. <!--Template:RFCN bottom--></div>

Revision as of 20:23, 11 June 2007

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This page is for bringing attention to usernames which may be in violation of Misplaced Pages's username policy. Before listing a username here, consider if it should be more appropriately reported elsewhere, or if it needs to be reported at all:

Do NOT post here if:

Before adding a name here you MUST ensure that the user in question:

  • has been warned about their username (with e.g. {{subst:uw-username}}) and has been allowed time to address the concern on their user talk page.
  • has disagreed with the concern, refused to change their username and/or continued to edit without replying to the warning.
  • is not already blocked.

If, after having followed all the steps above, you still believe the username violates Misplaced Pages's username policy, you may list it here with an explanation of which part of the username policy you think has been violated. After posting, please alert the user of the discussion (with e.g. {{subst:UsernameDiscussion}}). You may also invite others who have expressed concern about the username to comment on the discussion by use of this template.

Add new requests below, using the syntax {{subst:rfcn1|username|2=reason ~~~~}}.

Tools: Special:ListUsers, Special:BlockList

Reports

だってばよ

The following discussion is an archived debate of the username below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/User names). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result was: allow such that the user alters his signature and proves the change.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 23:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

だってばよ (talk · contribs)

I asked, very politely, if this user would please change their user name because of the non-Latin characters, and have received in reply nothing but anti-American abuse, even though I never once mentioned anything about America. It's obvious that the user has no interest in changing the name so that it could be read by people who haven't downloaded a font which makes the characters legible, so I come here. Corvus cornix 20:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
  • From what I've read here before users are allowed to use non-latin character sets for their names, but are strongly encouraged to pick a sensible sig. You need someone who can read that language (if it is a language and not just random chars) to say if the username violates any other part of the policy. Dan Beale 20:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Firstly, it probably wouldn't have inflamed the situation if you had not asked the user to change their name. Users with non-Latin characters are allowed to keep their names, but are advised to pick a transliteration for their name in Latin characters as a signature. Leebo /C 21:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
  • True, the user's behavior after being asked to come up with a different username is indefensible, but the request was inconsistent with username policy if well-intentioned. Leebo /C 21:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It was merely a request, and I did comment that he could use the non-Latin characters in his signature. Corvus cornix 21:32, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It is Japanese charachters. GDonato (talk) 21:55, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
It appears to be Japanese Hiragana. I think a phonetic spelling is "da tsu te bo yo" - but I could be wrong. I have no idea what that means. Dan Beale 22:08, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
And the first part means "but; because; even; also; too" or something. Checked it here (copy-paste it in the box). NikoSilver 22:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
  • It might be that this user is trying to make a point, but what point? This is the English Misplaced Pages, and he should make concessions needed to communicate with English speakers who have typical Western keyboards. It's reasonable we should expect everyone to provide a Latin form of their signature that we can use in referring to them. Suppose you are trying to compose a comment in an offline text file, and you have no idea how to type their name? I'd suggest that we disallow the name unless a Latin alternative is provided. EdJohnston 22:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
  • That would set a precedent that is inconsistent with current policy. If you want to change the policy, please discuss it at the relevant talk page, but at this page we need only discuss how the name relates to policy as it was when the user registered. Leebo /C 23:16, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

It would be as simple as changing it to "Dattebayo." Exploding Boy 22:45, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

According to present username policy,
"Misplaced Pages does not allow usernames that are confusing, misleading, disruptive, promotional or offensive. In borderline cases, you will be asked to choose a new username; in egregious cases, your account will simply be permanently blocked.
The line between acceptable and unacceptable user names is based on the opinions of other editors, not by the creator of the name. You should not create new usernames for the purpose of trying to find this line. If your real name appears to be inappropriate but you wish to use it anyway, you can e-mail an administrator to work out a solution. Note that the examples below are also inappropriate for your signature.
Confusing usernames that make it unduly difficult to identify users by their username" are not allowed. Not everyone here can read kana.
Seem pretty clear to me. Exploding Boy 23:21, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

This request was closed prematurely. Please review the above. Exploding Boy 23:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:UN clearly says be careful to avoid names which may be offensive, confusing or unintelligible to English-speaking users. Corvus cornix 23:38, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, and while it's true that it also says non-latin characters are allowed, the above clearly supercedes that. Exploding Boy 23:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
There is no consensus to disallow non-latin usernames. You can't circumvent that by applying another part of the policy. -Amarkov moo! 23:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Please stop editwarring and reverting each other. And for Corvus, WP:U explicitly states: "Non-Latin usernames are allowed, but if you have one you are encouraged to customize your signature to include a transliteration." Aecis 23:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I suggested that he create a Latin name and use the non-Latin characters for his signature. But shouldn't the policy nutshell supercede anything else in the policy? I also expressly reject the contention of Ryan Postlethwaite that I was biting him. Corvus cornix 23:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

The policy clearly states that confusing usernames are not allowed. All this user needs to do is change his signature, and everything will be fine. This would not be the first time someone with a non-latin (only) character user name/signature has been required to change it. Exploding Boy 23:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why this is hard. There is no consensus to disallow non-latin usernames. An attempt to amend the policy page to disallow them was rejected. That takes precedence over what other parts of the policy might imply. -Amarkov moo! 23:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you're asking for, Exploding Boy. It sounds like you are asking for the name to be disallowed, but then you suggest just the signature change. Leebo /C 23:49, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Amarkov is right. No matter what other points of the policy might imply, the only explicit mention of non-Latin usernames explicitly allows it. Aecis 23:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page.

Jameswsperman

The following discussion is an archived debate of the username below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/User names). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result was: identity confirmed. GDonato (talk) 21:22, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Jameswsperman (talk · contribs)

was reported on the noticeboard Violation of username policy because: Matches the name of a well-known living or recently deceased person; Editing articles on James W. Sperman and related endeavors. Request block unless/until identify can be verified. I am not sure myself. -- lucasbfr 08:09, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
  • See contributions and talk-page. I'd say it is obviously him (but not sure about "verifiably" him -yet). BTW, there's a serious WP:COI discussion over there (which is definitely outside the scope of this page). I also note that the user has not been notified. NikoSilver 12:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page.

You Know What My Favorite Number Is!

You Know What My Favorite Number Is! (talk · contribs)

Not sure if you can vote for yourself. Anyways, the name is explained on my talk page, so I don't see the problem here. Should I just give up seeking approval and keep the name I have now?

--You Know What My Favorite Number Is! 03:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

My original name, the one I want to keep is MY FAVORITE NUMBER =***666***. I couldn't figure out how to post it here correctly. The name below was originally mine, but it was too long.You Know What My Favorite Number Is! 16:32, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Unless the name is made to offend others, which it doesn't seem to be, I'd have to say allow. I'm sure there's plenty of people who think the number 13 is bad, but if I were to change my user name to Feba13, would that be bannable? As long as the user isn't vandalizing or making offensive edits -- Phoeba Wright 14:23, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
In the past we have not restricted the use of "bad" numbers. The name seems withing policy. 15:47, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
What possible purpose could that name have other than to offend? (And yes, that name is highly offensive to Christians.) Personally, I think all names involving 666 should be blocked simply because I have never seen anyone anywhere at any time who wants to be a serious contributor use such a name. It only serves a trolling purpose. But regardless of whether a name like "Bob666" should be blocked, user:My Favorite Number Is 666! 666, Yeah, Baby! is unquestionably a trolling name that can serve no legitimate purpose. --BigDT 16:56, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Again though, how is it anymore offensive than 616, 676, 13, 4, 9, or any other number? Numbers are *numbers*. If someone proclaims that the number 112 is a personal attack against their grandmother, are we going to ban anyone with the number 112 in their name? Are we going to ban people with '42' in their name for offending members of the Dianetic Orthodox Native Tree Population And Normally In Control society? Any number can be interpreted as offensive, blocking it would be as silly as blocking the letter q -- Phoeba Wright 20:09, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
AGF? besides, it's not relevant, the name "My Favorite Number Is 666! 666, Yeah, Baby!" was blocked. The current name is better. Dan Beale 18:21, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
I was referring to user:My Favorite Number Is 666! 666, Yeah, Baby!. I don't care about the current name other than it is distracting ... but that hasn't stopped anyone before. (Although $5 says that this is a repeat customer.) --BigDT 18:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Diepauldie

The following discussion is an archived debate of the username below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/User names). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result was: disallowed and hard-blocked by H for attacking/harassing Paul. GDonato (talk) 14:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Diepauldie (talk · contribs)

WP:UN violation as it promotes violent actions, as in murder. Leuko 05:31, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page.


The following discussion is an archived debate of the username below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/User names). No further edits should be made to this section. 
Allow - There was a heated debate but it appears that the consensus that there are more recent definitions of the term meaning, "extravagent" such as in the television show .  THis name also does not promote the profession of pimping, however just states pimp.  If it said, "pimps are great", or "pimping is the best", that would be a different story.    Also, this particular editor has explained his name and has no ill intentions from this name.  -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 20:23, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

ChicagoPimp

ChicagoPimp (talk · contribs)

Contains the word "pimp"; also see discussion below, copied from WP:UFA.Chaser - T 17:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Violation of username policy because: promote a controversial or potentially inflammatory point of view namely that sexual slavery is appropriate; insulting to women as most pimps are male and sell access rights to women's bodies; and is therefor sexist and insulting. KP Botany 16:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • "Pimp" is also American slang for a male who is "cool". Its colloquial usage is probably much more common these days. The user is also a regular contributor, so this is probably too complex and not blatant enough for a username block. Leebo /C 16:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Nice avoidance of the plenty of other slang terms that are accepted in some parts of the popular vernacular, but are not taken up as Misplaced Pages user names. I'd be glad to create an account with any one of them and bet you that it would take less than five minutes for my user name to be deleted. I bet Ho would be deleted as a user name, also. KP Botany 17:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I've been blocking names with pimp in them. The user should be made aware that there is a potential problem. --Fire Star 火星 16:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
    • At least notify the user first, then remove from UAA SGGH 16:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
      • There are all sorts of names that are used to mean cool in American slang that should not be acceptable, like offensive racial slurs which are on the radio, calling women Ho's. I bet if I signed on with any of these names, my user name would be blocked. Even before it was "cool" plenty of men thought pimping was "cool." This is disgusting. Thanks, Fire Star, for seeing the issue. KP Botany 17:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry if you're offended by my explanation. Please realize that I'm not condoning or opposing the name. I provided a wider context and a reason why a simple username block on a regular contributor is inappropriate. I have never heard "ho" used to mean "cool" though. Leebo /C 17:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
This seems a bit extreme to me, in pop culture pimp doesn't mean sexual slavery, take Pimp My Ride, for example. I seriously doubt that User:ChicagoPimp is condoning or participating in sexual slavery. IvoShandor 17:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, with reference to "Pimp My Ride", it can be used to describe a generally extravagent lifestyle that may or may not have anything to do with the traditional occupation of a pimp. Leebo /C 17:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Break 1

  • The name does not put forth any view much less the view that "sexual slavery is appropriate". I am not sure what part of the policy this is in violation of, if any. 17:42, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
    • Presumably that on offensive usernames, particularly those inflamatory or insulting to groups, or those that refer or include allusions to sexism?--Chaser - T 17:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • That is a stretch. Simply stating one has an illegal occupation does not mean that the worst qualities of that occupation can be assumed to be implied. 17:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Pimp Since the Misplaced Pages article lists it as selling humans for prostitution, the exchange of money for sexual intercourse, according to Misplaced Pages what exactly should I think but that a user using the name is promoting pimping? Maybe it's a gender issue, if you're male you're not as offended by the thought of selling other people's bodies for your personal profit. Many slave owners weren't offended by slavery--although some still were. So, thinking that pimp means what the Misplaced Pages article says is a stretch? Interesting. KP Botany 17:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • You seriously believe that is the reference this editor was making? That seems like a lack of an assumption of good faith. I fail to see how this would be the first conclusion one would come to when running across ChicagoPimp of the Aquarium fishes wikiproject. Also, please don't speculate about what thoughts I may have on sexual slavery and prostitution, or bring this back to some "gender issue." Again, a lack of an assumption of good faith, to me this is over-zealous political correctness, but of course you are entitled to your opinion as well. IvoShandor 18:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • The gender of those contributing to the discussion really shouldn't be of any import. I realize some, such as myself, make their gender apparent, but it would be optimal if it was not used to stereotype comments. Leebo /C 18:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not using it to stereotype comments, simply suggesting that pimping may be looked at differently from a male perspective as for adult prostitution, the most innocuous level, most pimps are male and most prostitutes are female--this may lead to different ways of looking at pimping. So, again, thinking that anyone would mean what the Misplaced Pages article says about pimping is beyond serious belief? How is it assuming bad faith that I assume that someone used a name to mean what the Misplaced Pages article about it says? Considering gender bias IS my issue with the name, so I'll stick to bringing up the issue that it may be a case of looking at it differently for the different genders. And, please, what does the fish project have to do with Pimp? What about fishes should I know has to do with fishing? Pimp doesn't offer clues. KP Botany 18:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, then as a male, I can say that I do not look at pimping (the occupation) as something that should be condoned or promoted at Misplaced Pages. As an editor, I don't feel the name ChicagoPimp necessarily promotes the occupation of pimping, because I'm most familiar with its colloquial usage, which has nothing to do with the job of pimping. Leebo /C 18:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I still think KP Botany is failing to assume good faith on all accounts. As for the last question, I am not sure what that means. The second to last question, ChicagoPimp is a member of that project, I was merely using it to describe the user in question and his activities on Misplaced Pages. I would say that being offended by his name because you construe it as a direct reference to sexual slavery (which I don't think this user's intention is that meaning) is a bit of an over reaction. Maybe if the user's main contributions were to 2 Pac articles or pimping articles then I would see that meaning in this user's name. I don't think blanket elimination of the word pimp from the user name vocabulary is the way to go here, especially if we are to assume good faith. This is simply my opinion. IvoShandor 18:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Awesome, ChicagoPimp gets to use "college newspaper" but I don't, and now, the whole issue has boiled to my "over reaction." In other words, the name would be offensive according to you, if he wasn't a friend. Which makes your viewpoint on the matter somewhat biased, which brings back the issue of bias. In other words, if a woman is offended by being treated like a sexual object, she's over reacting. Awesome. KP Botany 19:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
First off, nobody is accusing you of over re-acting. second of all, it is obvious that the community does not interpret the mass meaning of the word in the context you do. This is why RFCN is here for. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 20:02, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Also, a month away doesn't mean the user is inactive, maybe their cable got shut off, or they're on vacation, or they're sick, who knows. IvoShandor 17:49, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

From the page on usernames: Offensive usernames that may make harmonious editing difficult or impossible, including but not limited to:

  1. Usernames that promote a controversial or potentially inflammatory point of view.
  2. Usernames that are defamatory or insulting to other people, groups, articles or processes.
  3. Usernames that invoke the name of a religious figure or religion in a distasteful, disrespectful, or provocative way, or promote one religion over another. (Note that simple expressions of faith are allowed unless they are disruptive, but are discouraged.)
  4. Usernames that refer to real-world violent actions.
  5. Usernames that refer or include allusions to racism, sexism, hate speech, et cetera.
  6. Usernames that refer to a medical condition or disability, especially in a belittling way.
  7. Usernames that include slurs, or references to reproductive or excretory bodily functions.

I contend that this user name makes harmonious editing difficult for me because:

  • 1. Promoting pimpin is inflammatory.
  • 2. Pimping is insulting to women as a group.
  • 5. Pimping is sexist, especiall in promoting the sexual exploitation of prostitutes who are usually women for the monetary gain of the pimp who is often male is sexist.

KP Botany 18:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Keep in mine that everything can be offensive to somebody what may be a niche offense to somebody may be seen as no problem to the greater community. In this situation, that is what RFCN is for is to determine if the community finds a consensus that a name violates the policy. Keep in mind that there have also been counter points that this name is most likley not promoting "pimpin" in the sense you may believe it to be. Let this discussion pan out please. Thanks! -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 18:40, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Comments from ChicagoPimp

  • Comments from ChicagoPimp - per the comments of IvoShandor and Leebo, among others, my username is a direct reference to current pop culture and current popular vernacular. that said, here are some individual points for reflection and discussion:
  1. the intention of my username is not to denigrate or disparage any individual or group. it is a reflection of an urban lifestyle, of things that are "over the top" or cool. please maintain good faith of my efforts and intentions.
  2. popular culture and language has changed significantly with time. in the 1600's, the term pimp only meant to be well dressed. over time, the term has also been used to refer to criminals and fish salesman. clearly, the name needs to be taken in the context of the situation...in this case the modern pop culture usage.
  3. encyclopedia.com has a significant seciton on the word, including the modern usage of "overly decorated and tacky." per the encyclopedia, it has been reclaimed as an American slang term for being unique, "cool" or socially desirable. this is evidenced by the mtv television show "pimp my ride" having nothing to do with exploitation of any group but everything to do with transforming an automobile from tacky to desirable.
  4. the term pimp is now commonly accepted to reflect the above point and is used by major media publications such as the april 17 2007 article in the chicago tribune entitled "Pimp my Wienermobile" about the transformation of Kraft Foods marketing efforts. the chicago sun times published an article on march 16 2006 entitles "Stardock lets you pimp out your PC desktop". in no way did either article allude to repression or objectification of an individual or group. rather, the articles used the word purely in the modern context.
  5. family centric publications such as chicagoparent are using the word in restaurant reviews. educational institutions such as the university of chicago used the term in the 2006 orientation newsletter, specifically "Pimp my (two-wheel) ride; pedaling the Windy City". again, these usages reflect the accepted modern meaning in the urban environment.
  6. i have no history of contributing to any controversial topics, and certainly have no history of making controversial changes to any article. i have never been involved in edit wars or any questionable behavior. i do have a history of making vandalism reverts, thus a history of making wikipedia a better place through activities other than article contribution.
  7. i have been a longtime contributor and editor under this username. my contributions to WPChi, Arch, and NRHP are known to be credible and significant and have been awarded barnstars. changing my username essentially destroys this credibility.
  8. i am not inactive, but rather taking an extended wikibreak due to having major ISP issues. i am still a daily reader, but have not been a daily contributor.
  9. only one user has ever raised a question about my username, and i fully respect the concerns of the user and assume good faith in bringing this issue to a group discussion forum. hopefully, i have provided the context for my username with enough examples to support allowing this username to remain.
  10. i am open to continuing this discussion, answering any questions, and providing additional supporting context for this username. ChicagoPimp 19:02, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Break 2

Except when I asked you if you meant something other than its offensive intentions you ignored my question. Why? Because you didn't care if I was offended? But only care now that it's up for discussion? You wanted the attention? I don't care who uses the word. I hear songs on the radio all of the time with racial slurs in them--does that make it an acceptable user name on Misplaced Pages? I bet not. The Misplaced Pages article doesn't describe this usage, you chose not to offer this up to me when I asked you directly, before this became a user name for discusion. I'm going to pass on this acceptable usage, and I just read a college newspaper that had a picture of women's genitals in it--will this be pasted on the front page of Misplaced Pages? Nope. KP Botany 19:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Please make discussion here about the username, not the user. This is an discussion to determine the whether this name is innaprorpaite, not whether he addressed you the first time. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 19:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Also, the article does address the usage in American pop culture, which is what you asked for in your initial request. Leebo /C 19:20, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd have to say that we toss this out. The word pimp has many uses, only accepting one definition is ignorance. Consider the name "SmokingFags". In American English, yes, it might be offensive, but in British English it's just bad for your health. Telling someone that they're "acting like an ass" might mean that they're behaving like a mule, or they're coming up with a bunch of crap, depending on your definition of the word 'ass'. Pimp is much more commonly used to describe something as being extravagant or a person as being hip (No, not a person literally being that part of the body connected to the pelvis and knee.) nowadays than it is to describe a solicitor. -- Phoeba Wright 19:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, basing things on the "modern colloquial usage" is dumb and irrelevant. The word "Nigga" is colloquially used far different than the mainstream usage (and is acceptable in the "reflection of an urban lifestyle"), but we certainly would block User:ChicagoNigga. Just something for discussion. --Ali'i 19:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
The word "Nigga" is still widely considered offensive, though. It is a disparaging term, not a complement. Not to mention, it has racist tones (yes, this includes when black people use it), which pimp does not -- Phoeba Wright
"Pimp" certainly has disparaging tones. And is still offensive to a portion of the population. I do not have a strong feeling one way or another on the username, but you cannot just say that (royal) you are basing the discussion on the fact that in some cultures, "pimp" means "cool". That's just a stupid argument. --Ali'i 19:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Is it necessary to use terms like "stupid" and "dumb?" Your point may be more clear if you use a less vague word that doesn't sound like an attack on the users in the discussion. I understand that it's most likely not your intention for it to be interpreted that way, but it's entirely possible. Leebo /C 19:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
E kala mai, Leebo. I suppose I should have said that basing a decision about the appropriateness of a user name on one, neologistic usage of a term is injudicious and unwise as it opens the door to a wide host of problems that should be forseen going down this path. As I've stated, I have no strong opinion on this specific name, but was rather challenging those of you (like yourself, Leebo) to look at the basis of your argument (that Pimp does not mean to sell/pander women) as a faulty one. Mahalo nui loa. --Ali'i 19:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying your stance (and expanding my knowledge of Hawaiian expressions). The original context of my argument that it has American slang usages came from Misplaced Pages:Usernames for administrator attention where the greater concern was whether or not it should be blocked outright. I argued that it's not blatant for the reason I gave, and I carried over that mindset to this discussion without resetting my thoughts on the matter. You make a valid point, that to ignore a definition, or only employ one, is not satisfactory. Leebo /C 20:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I see. I couldn't tell where the discussion from Misplaced Pages:Usernames for administrator attention stopped and discussion from Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User names began. As to the Hawaiian expressions, ʻaʻole pilikia! :-) --Ali'i 20:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

(EDIT CONFLICT)::::KP Botany: Your points about songs on the radio and a college newspaper are essentially tangents that have nothing to do with this discussion. What makes you think that this user has nefarious intention in the meaning of his user name? Is it because you believe there is no other usage for the term pimp? I don't think ChicagoPimp's name is going to "be pasted on the front page of Misplaced Pages" anyway. IvoShandor 19:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

If bringing up college newspapers is a tangent that has nothing to do with this, why only tell me that, instead of telling User:ChicagoPimp that when he used it? I asked the user what his intentions were and he didn't answer. I waited about a month for his answer. I should have waited longer? How long? No matter how many people use pimp to mean something cool, it still means something extremely offensive. KP Botany 19:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Nobody is questioning you bringing this here. However, please make the discussion about the name in itself, not the editors behavior. This is about the appropriateness of this name in and of itself, not wheter he di dnto reply to you. Thanks! -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 19:44, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it is about whether or not he replied to me, as I asked him directly if the name "some non-sexist, non-misogynist, use of the term in American English that I am unaware of, one that doesn't objectify an entire gender, in which case feel free to enlighten me, and, in which case, please use your signature for clarification to prevent future misunderstandings." I asked, just in case there was some other meaning, now, after I asked and was ignored I get told, AGF, it has other meanings, blah, blah, blah. I get told not to bring up college newspapers, but apparently that's a solid argument for ChicagoPimp. Yes, it is about not being told up front that it meant something else. It's about having the name "Pimp" come up on articles I watch--without any knowledge or communication that it means something else. It's about bias. And the editor himself offered up his behaviour in support of his being allowed to keep the user name. KP Botany 19:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
(EC)No, this is where the community is supposed to determine if they feel this is a violation of the username policy. Not whether you have an issue with him not replying to you. Also, he gave an explanation as to why he did not reply. Assuming any other reason for a no-reply is an extreme assumption of bad faith. About college newspaper, you used a poor argument, an argument that did not correlate to this discussion. I ask again, make your arguments based on the username, not the users actions. Thanks! -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 19:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
The discussion of newspapers, in ChicagoPimp's explanation, has to do with the way the word is generally accepted in mainstream American media. It's not "some people who use it." It's major television networks and newspapers with thousands of readers. He's trying to demonstrate the fact that the general population does not regard the term as offensive in the context of improving or decorating something. Leebo /C 19:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Unindent And my example of a college newspaper is that it is not an example of mainstream America--there are things that will never make it to mainstream America media that are found in college newspapers. KP Botany 19:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

KP: Speaking of ignoring, you aren't really reading any of my points. It isn't about bias, it's about over reaction, regardless we should give this discussion time to mature and gain more input. IvoShandor 19:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
He also brought up the conservative Chicago Tribune, but you have chosen to ignore that, his explanation for his absence and many of the points raised here. I can understand your view but cannot agree with it in this case. IvoShandor 20:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

(EDIT CONFLICT)::The RFC was a good idea, we can determine consensus this way, I didn't say anything about you waiting for anythig. The user explained the absence, I am sure that is why you had no answer. Your college newspaper example, women's genitals, is tangential because in this case what do women's gentials have to do with this discussion about his user name, ChicagoPimp's examples related directly to usage of the word pimp. IvoShandor 19:46, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

(EC x 2) - I agree with Shandor who just ec'ed me. 2nd of all, there is a big difference between the n word and pimp. Pimp is not generally considered an innapropriate word in media contexts. THe most popular comparison is pimp my ride. You would not find a tv show with N word in it, or shit or fuck or any other words that may have more modern usages. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 19:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Break 3

(EDIT CONFLICT)As for Ali's point. I think this comes back to what the community has deemed as acceptable. With the term pimp we see a broad application throughout mainstream culture of all types. The word "nigga" is used by specific groups and has not gained a broad consensus as acceptable by the culture at large. This is the main difference here. You would never see an article in a newspaper with "nigga" in the headline, it's absolutely unacceptable. The word pimp has had a different etymology and has come to have a broadly accepted meaning and use. So far accepted that it's use as sexual slavery and taboo meaning have essentially been supplanted, with the example above the word still has a mainly derogatory use. IvoShandor 19:35, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Meaning, yes Pimp has derogatory meaning but the broader culture has given a different more widely used meaning. IvoShandor 20:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Pimp is not a derogatory word to a racial group so comparing it to the N word does not follow. It is not profanity, it does not endorse or proclaim anything about women. It is a profession, illegal in many areas. Without attributing qualities to the name that simply are not there this cannot be seen as a violation. 19:58, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with H. Chances are, he's not, but he could be an actual pimp, where it's legal... and was born and raised in Chicago. If it's not wrong to use NewYorkAttorney or TaiwanMagician, it shouldn't be wrong to have ChicagoPimp. hmwith 20:07, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
It should be clear from the length of the discussion here alone that the name is controversial. Exploding Boy 20:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
What gave it away? -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 20:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


A name can be controversial, the rule is against putting forth a controversial point of view. It makes no statement whatsoever about any point of view. If it was "Pimpin is good" or "Go out and pimp" or "PimpsAreTheDope" then it would be a violation of policy, but this name makes no claim. 20:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
actually, it just means the interpreation of the word is controversial. It could also be the Color of the bikeshed effect. THe length of discussion is not directly correlated to the difficulty of the subject matter. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 20:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
(EDIT CONFLICT x3 - how is this possible?) The point is that is shouldn't be. hmwith 20:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • (exceprt form article on pimpiung removed)
On the other hand, I guess if you think women belong in a "stable" selling their bodies to pay for your fancy car and threads isn't all that bad. KP Botany 20:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
That is innapropriate for this diacussion. It has been repeatedly argued that is not the most common interpretation. Please do not paste exceprts from the article to this page as it makes it exceptionally lengthy. You have made your point over and over again, reitterating over and over and trying to mnake a point with it is not helping this argument., -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 20:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
(EC)I would note that much of the discussion has concerned why this is an acceptable username as explanation to the one editor who seems to be ardently opposed to allowing such a name. IvoShandor 20:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Awesome, now pimping is so offensive that Chrislk02 calls me a troll for pasting from the Misplaced Pages article and deletes my comment. And my comments are too long, and I'm over reacting, and my examples are all wrong. And no one ever says, stop attacking me, or that anyone else's arguments are too long, or their examples are wrong.

In other words, women don't get a voice on Misplaced Pages in how they are treated. Everyone can quote whatever they want to support their contention the word is not offensive, but quoting the Misplaced Pages article is trolling. Outrageous. KP Botany 20:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

KP You are the one seeing this the statement about women, it is not actually there in the name. Unless there are more than false dichotomies to present this needs to be closed as allow. This isn't about gender it is about the fact that the name does not say what you are saying it says. 20:21, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page.
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