| "If silence be good for the wise, how much better for fools"
Local Date/Time (AKDT)
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January 2025
15
Wednesday
4:21 pm
    ¡A note about languages!   
I can read (at least reasonably well) the languages listed in my babel box, including those at level one. If you feel more comfortable writing to me in a language other than English, go for it. However, unless it is French try not to be disappointed if I cannot reply in that language. : )
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Hopiakuta
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Hi - I think Hopiakuta is asking to have a phone consultation - several of his comments have obliquely talked about that, and I think that's what he's referring to when he points to your sig - the "talk to me" part. I saw him saying something similar somewhere else, and I'm finally adding it up. It's all very bizarre. I don't have the time, nor the needed background, to sort through his technical issues, but I wonder if someone might be able to step up for this. He has something to say - it's just not getting to us. Nice to meet you, by the way. Tvoz |talk 22:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hi, it's nice to meet you too. I would agree that he is asking for a phone conversation... but I'm young and not all that well spoken, and I don't feel comfortable with talking to someone I don't know over the phone. Add that to the fact that I don't really feel qualified. I have experience w/ autistic and developmentally disabled people but this is, well it's very different. Parts of it do seem autistic, the problem with taking things out of context is almost aspergers-like... but I'm not getting that vibe otherwise. I just don't think I could do it justice, but I don't really know anyone who could. Maybe someone at the accessibility project? It seems that the person he connected with the most is Graham, but he seems to have stopped paying attention to the page. Maybe if we brought this back to his attention he could lend some ideas. Frankly, I'm at a loss, but I don't want to give up on this guy yet. L'Aquatique 05:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- That's how I feel too - you probably saw I brought this to AN/I initially because I just couldn't make any sense out of it and had a feeling it wasn't garden-variety vandalism, although it looked like it. I really am not the right person either - I don't have any experience and wouldn't know how to approach it - but there must be people here who can. Graham is a good idea - maybe he knows people at the accessibility project. Tvoz |talk 06:03, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Oooh - how come the color continued? Looks nice! Tvoz |talk 06:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- It's pretty! Okay, I'm going to bop over to Graham's talk page and tell him there's a party going on over at L'Aquatique's talk page and he better get in on it before I get too goofy (as often happens at parties, particularly Christmas ones). I am kidding of course. I just finished a six page paper for a sociology class and I'm feeling QUITE goofy already! 'Nee way... L'Aquatique
- Done! I think I managed to keep the goofiness to a minimum. I try hard not to freak out people I am just meeting! : ) 'Kay, we'll see if he responds. (By the way, your signature matches this odd purpleness that has engulfed our conversation quite nicely.) L'Aquatique 06:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- (After edit conflict): Hmmm - I'm not sure how well I'd do at this - I'm a bit shy in voice communication and one of the reasons I like this place is that communication is all in text. I've been able to talk to other blind people who others considered really hard to talk to ... just saying "yep", "uh-huh", and so on did the trick as well as providing some good advice. But I'm not sure how I'd go with Hopiakuta ... he/she seems very talkative. The only person from Misplaced Pages:accessibility who I think might be able to do this is User:Rick Block. User:Theresa knott is a teacher assistant at a school who I find always has a knack of explaining things well - perhaps some of the editors at Talk:Autism maybe? I know people in RL who are good at that sort of thing but don't edit here... I wouldn't give the duty to any of them otherwise they probably wouldn't be my friends. In summary I could do it, but I'd prefer someone who is more quallified in working with developmentally disabled people. I have this page on my watchlist so reply here to keep the conversation in one place. Graham87 06:57, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Holy cow, that was fast. Superhero fast... hey you're not a superhero are you? That would be cool. I could tell people I met a superhero on Misplaced Pages! But alas... they would never believe me! Anyway; I hope that you have not misinterpreted my original message- in no way am I asking you to telephone him yourself! I would not ask you to do something I wouldn't do- and I know how you feel. I'm horrible at telephone conversations... I stutter all over the place and can never think of the right thing to say! (until an hour or so afterward, that is) I am much better at typing out my thoughts. Anyway, I was just hoping you might have some insight that we are missing, since he seemed to react in more a positive manner to you than others. It's late where I am and I'm just up working on this and writing to blow off steam, so I'll try to get in touch with Rick tomorrow morning and try to get his advice on the subject. Thanks for the quick reply! L'Aquatique 07:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- LOL no I was browsing WP:ANI and followed a link ... then I found I had new messages. I'd love to be a superhero ... 'twould be cool to be able to fly around. Anyways, as a last idea, have a look at my advice about a similar situation at User talk:SandyGeorgia/arch19 #AnnieTigerChucky - I was probably a bit pesamistic in that message but it is true, unless someone reaches out to him and teaches him about Misplaced Pages, he will eventually be banned. I don't want that to happen. And I always think of a comeback far too late - what in French is called L'esprit de l'escalier (stairway wit) - I wish there was a concise English term for that. Graham87 07:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, flying would definitely rock muchly. However, I think I'd prefer to be able to breathe underwater. Still, being a superhero would be scary. I don't think I have to guts to go fighting evildoers... I have trouble enough on vandal patrol! Then again, you can't move as fast underwater, so any epic battles would be pretty boring. Hee hee... 'Nee way, back to the subject at hand. I am not sure about this- I haven't been able to decipher a lot from his admittedly cryptic talk page (can't imagine what that page must sound like... maybe a very poorly tuned orchestra!) but I think he actually was banned at one point for a short time. Perhaps as an administrator you could confirm this? Frankly, while I see how it could work, I think that he may just react with the "handicappist, racist, etc" line. I'm afraid if we tried that we might push him away too far. Hmmm... By the way- love that phrase! It does seem to capture the sentiment perfectly, doesn't it? Je pense que les français comprendent l'idée de langue plus, plus mieux que nous... : ) L'Aquatique 07:42, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- This is his block log, which is accessible by everyone - it shows he was blocked for 24 hours and then unblocked. A link to a user's block log can be found at the top of their contributions, next to the talk page link; admins also get a block button. A block is not the same thing as a ban ... a ban is something given by the arbitration committee or by the whole community - see the banning policy. I don't actually know any French - I learnt that phrase from Chuck Palahniuk's short story "Guts", which is, um, interesting ... let's just say that the ability to breathe underwater would not have helped the main character at all to get out of his messy predicament! Graham87 08:20, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... It says he was blocked at around ten then unblocked at 16:00... that's only six hours, unless I'm reading it wrong. (which is completely possible- the whole 24 hour clock screws with my brain) Plus it happened almost a year ago. Looks like this guy's been a Wikipedian longer than me! Nevertheless, it seems like if he was going to learn from a block he would have learned his lesson a year ago. A ban on the other hand... I don't know. I'm not sure he would understand. Many editors have already asked him to "knock it off", making it formal probably isn't going to change things. The idea of a ban, in and of itself, isn't very concrete and I think that we need to be very clear with him or else more misunderstandings are likely to ensue. On the less serious side of this conversation, I've decided that in addition to being able to hold my breath under water and fly, I want to have a little usb port installed in my brain. Need to learn about Geological Oceanography? Easy! I just plug in this flash drive and BAM! Instant expertise! The practical applications are endless!! L'Aquatique 08:38, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Yup he was blocked for only six hours then unblocked by the same admin. I think the problem is that everyone has been kinda afraid to deal with him ... and to be honest I don't blame them. If he is banned he will probably start creating sockpuppets - but they will be easily recognisable because of his distinct writing style and mannerisms. I'd love a USB port in my brain ... you could find out so much info so quickly. I would only like it if only *I* could decide what gets plugged in there ... I wouldn't like someone walking by and randomly plugging a USB vacuum cleaner into my brain. Graham87 09:02, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, I agree. I'm not afraid of him, but I'm a little intimidated. I'm a writer and I'm used to what I write making sense to people. He obviously isn't getting what I'm trying to tell him, and that really... I don't know what to word is. Frustrates me, I guess. Maybe that's why I don't want to give up on him. It irks me that there are so many idiots out there that will destroy without a though something other people have spent so much time working on, but here's someone who seems to have good faith, and some good ideas (if you can read past all the weirdness, he has a very dry with an is almost... poetic) and we cannot get him to understand. *Sigh*. The problem is, he will take any block or ban as an insult. Hmmm... Tvoz was talking earlier about him writing down everything that he wants to contribute in a subpage and then having that be translated into usable text by some volunteer. That's actually not a bad idea, but I'm not sure how I'd communicate that to him. Plus, we'd have to find someone to do it.
- Vacuum cleaner usb ports. Who knew? I cannot help wondering who sits at their desk all day and thinks these things up. Nevertheless, if someone did walk by and plug a vacuum into your head, you could just yank it out and...retaliate...hee hee... This reminds me of when I was a kid, I programmed my computer to "scream in pain" (I just recorded myself screaming) everytime someone unplugged something from it. Ahh, the memories! L'Aquatique 18:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hmmm - look at his his userpage on Anarchopedia where he seems to make a little more sense. I suspect he is autistic because of his perseveration on minor things - like the number of characters in his screen name. He seems to be unwilling to use the phone to talk to anyone outside the US - and I, personally, wouldn't call if I had to pay for it because the cost of international calls in Aussieland is ridiculous. Unless one of us could Skype him or something ... wasn't he using an ancient computer though? Hmmm ... on one level he makes no sense at all but on another he makes perfect sense in his own world, if you know what I mean. And lol at the USB missile launcher! Weapon of mass-distraction indeed ... Graham87 04:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I've read through some of his posts and nearly all of them could be considered disruptive. His account history goes back to June 2006 (which is a continuation of earlier postings from an IP address). He seems to be the same user at http://eng.anarchopedia.org/index.php/User:hopiakuta, and may not be fully comprehending the difference between wikipedia and anarchopedia. He's been tolerated here quite a long time, despite being nearly obviously disruptive. I don't have any particularly good suggestions. I've seen much less disruptive folks end up banned. He seems to at least think he has a disability of some kind, but I don't have much of clue what it might be. Harsh though it may sound, if he can't communicate through writing this might not be the best place for him.
BTW - can you fix your sig? Each "start font" (font) needs a matching "close font" (/font). This is why the font color continues after your sig. -- Rick Block (talk) 05:02, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Fixed. That's never been a problem before... Anyway, I'm disappointed to hear your response, but unfortunately I have to admit that you are probably right. Both of my parents are autism specialists and I spent my childhood dealing with this stuff. I guess I was just pushing for a victory here because they are so rare with this disease.
- I do think it's interesting that he seems so much more coherant at Anarchopedia. I don't have any good explanations for this. Perhaps it is just a better environment for him and we should encourage him to remain there instead?
- As for weapons of mass
destruction distraction, I know that I would be distracted all day by that! I'd be sitting here, twiddling my thumbs and considering working... then someone would walk by I would bomb the daylights out of them! The good news is, if they were carrying something I could vacuum any messes up ASAP! : ) L'Aquatique 17:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- It seems a shame, because it would appear that disruption may not be his intent, and he has made positive contributions, if you can sort through the maze. I do think it might work in a partnering arrangement, but I don't know why anyone would volunteer for such a task. From a practical standpoint, do we just sit back and put up with it? Mentoring might be an answer - at least a mentor (or adopt-a-user, whatever it's called) might talk to him by phone and maybe get some insight into what the problem is, and perhaps recommend that this isn't the best place for him to get satisfaction from his work. This may indeed not be the best place for him, but are we going to just wait until someone blocks him for disruption? Doesn't feel right to me, but I don't have any answers either. Tvoz |talk 19:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Well, I suppose a next step could be to contact the folks over at Adopt a User and see if we could find someone with experience in these situations. There are a lot of mentors out there, I'd bet there's a least one who would be willing to take it on. L'Aquatique 19:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- I wish I was able to contribute more here than I really can. I do note that we do have two editors, User:Smartyshoe and User:Gameguider, who have both expressed interest in a proposed Autism project and who both use the {{User aspie}}. One of them, or maybe one of the other editors who use that template here might be able to help. I would have no objections to trying maybe to do some work on this editor's contributions, but am more than a bit awkward on the phone myself. By the way, any way to bring back the violet print above? I wish I saw that color a lot more often around here. John Carter 20:08, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, perhaps we could create some sort of network of people who could sift through his contributions and make them more "wikipropriate" (<- new word!). Of course we'd need to run this by him first or he'll see it as being followed around by people intent on changing his edits! I'm going to pop over to Smartyshoe and Gameguiders' talk pages and ask them to join this conversation and lend some first hand experience and advice. L'Aquatique 21:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
- Please see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Accessibility. John Carter 14:51, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hmmm... too bad you are the only person on the list. : ( L'Aquatique 20:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hey, I only added that section at 14:50 today. It'll take awhile for people to even know it's there. John Carter 20:12, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, I didn't know that! Hee hee... I'll have to go add my name. L'Aquatique 21:37, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
- I don't feel comfortable talking to strangers on the phone. Sorry. Smartyllama 23:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC) (formerly smartyshoe)
- I know how you feel! But would you be willing to perhaps examine the case and lend some advice? Also, you may be interested in User:Warlordjohncarter/WikiProject Accessibility... Thanks, L'Aquatique 00:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
- Sure, I will look into it. Smartyllama 00:10, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
- Good deal. Welcome to the Wikiproject! L'Aquatique 00:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
- Hi - I just saw your "talkback" was put on my user page again on Oct 9 - I saw it once that day - didn't see that it went back up (not sure why you put it back actually) - would probably be more useful, at least for me, if you put it on User Talk instead, so the "new message" announcement would be delivered. My watchlist is too huge and I'd prefer not having things put on my user page - I don't always notice them. Anyway - I did see the discussion continuing here, and wish you all well with the project - this is not my expertise, but I saw an editor who seemed to be struggling, and tried to make some sense out of it. Unfortunately it seems there are no real resources for this type of thing, and there continues to be a communication problem with this user. It may be beyond our ability to address - if anyone has any contacts at the Foundation, perhaps they would be interested in this. I'm overbooked as it is and can't do much more than an occasional interpretation if I happen to see one of his edits being misunderstood. I'll keep him on my watchlist, but can't promise more than that. Tvoz |talk 05:21, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
(unindent)Whoa, sorry I didn't notice your post until now. God, I'm such a space cadet at times. 'Nee way , thanks for your help and input. I understand being overbooked! Been there, done that, keep doing it. --(L'Aquatique: Bringing chaos & to the Wiki for One Year!) 08:54, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
- Absolutely no problem!! All best Tvoz |talk 16:45, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
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Undelivered
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Thanks! §hep • ¡Talk to me! 04:42, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
- Aaww, shucks! Thanks for the star. I hope those pages didn't cause you any inconvenience. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 05:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
- No, the two protected ones were indef blocked users, so I just removed them from the list. The other one I just delivered myself. Thanks- L'Aquatique 05:08, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
WP:Judaism newsletter
Very, very nice. Thanks for taking the initiative on this. — ] (] · ]) 04:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
- Hey. If this was your idea, thanks. The project has needed a newsletter for some time! Happy Independence Day! Tomer 04:45, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Request for help
Hi L'Aquatique. You wrote on Talk:Shituf "perhaps you would like to open an informal case with the Mediation Cabal?" Can you please give me some information about this? -LisaLiel (talk) 02:44, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
- Shalom, Lisa! In the dispute resolution process, a medcab case would be the next step past RFC in the dispute resolution chain of events. Basically, medcab is an informal version of arbcom- we try to help the parties find a common ground so we can work more effectively. Generally, we deal with content issues but, and this is at least my take on it, underlaying content issues are usually conflicts between editors and that is what needs to be addressed during an medcab preceding. I think the conflict over at Shituf is ideal for a medcab case because there are basically two parties involved- you and Tim, and you both have clear-cut ideas about what the article is supposed to be like. What we would do is try to foster a civil discussion between you two, and any other interested parties, and forge a compromise. Technically speaking, how it would go down is the mediator- who can be me if you desire or you can post the case and someone else can come along and mediate, would give both you and Tim an opportunity to explain your position, and then we would try to find a way to meet both of your needs. If I mediate, I believe what I would do is create two copies of the article in userspace and ask you each make it exactly how you think it should be. Then, we will work to merge the two versions.
- A medcab decision is not binding- I cannot block or ban you and I cannot enforce what we decide upon. Like the rest of the 'pedia, it's based on consensus and the idea that we can find a solution that both parties are happy with. That being said, there are a few ground rules- both you and Tim must explicitly agree that you want to take part in the case, and you have to agree to be civil and make no personal attacks.
- More information can be found here: Mediation Cabal. Let me know if you would be interested in opening a case. L'Aquatique 08:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
ArbCom
Yeah, I'm just putting together a document now to be honest. Not hugely worried by the idea but it seems a complete waste of everybody's time. -Rushyo (talk) 19:56, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
- I'm pretty sure it's just my neck on the line :) Can't do any better than being honest if you get involved though. Showing them you had good intentions is probably the most important aspect.
Thanks :) I was hoping you could review User:Rushyo/Regarding Alastair Haines for me and point out anything that might be undiplomatic or inaccurate. -Rushyo (talk) 20:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
To be honest, it's tempting to bring Alastair before ArbCom if he doesn't start a case himself... if only as a response to the emotional distress of threatening to do it. He shouldn't be allowed to get away with that kind of behaviour. I suffer from various forms of depression and this is really pushing me over the edge. I certainly won't be sleeping any tonight! (and I'm supposed to be going to a lecture on AI in video games tomorrow) -Rushyo (talk) 21:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
- If either of you get grilled, I will speak in your defence. You both did a LOT of things well.
- I still need an apology, but as far as I'm concerned, you just got sucked in by all the bad-mouthing of me that was floating around.
- I will be starting a case against Ilkali at ArbCom. He has wasted a bit of your time, and a LOT of mine.
- "It will be a cold day in hell before I apologize for being honest" — L'Aquatique.
- I am more gentle than you are, L'Aquatique. But were you to apply that principle to me, you could not condemn me.
- On the other hand, I am not only honest, I have been patient, delivering the truth only when it becomes necessary, and withholding my opinions altogether.
- I thank you both for something you did not see. Ilkali was forced, by your presence, to take content issues I'd raised seriously at last. I also thank you both for volunteering your time, and I do not doubt you both were 100% genuine in seeking to help everyone and to help Wiki and good luck to you both in future cases.
- This matter is not about content (neither Ilkali nor Alynna have provided any), nor is it about me (I didn't ask for mediation regarding my behaviour). It is about unresolved slander against a user who works from his real life name. Someone, other than me simply must address this. It is time consuming to ensure this is done on the basis of real evidence.
- I have tried every means to spare others time in this, but the bottom line is that I have given a lot of time to Wiki, and intend to give more. Also, in the end, someone simply needs to say "I am not Alastair, but I have checked what he says and it is consistent. He really has been discredited, and without any basis but heresay, not itself based on fact."
- Consider this, at the very first point I challenged your opinions, you both accused me of being uncivil. Over a period of months I've ignored slights and attacks and attempted to get issues addressed, resorting to "honesty" only when it became absolutely necessary, delivering it as warnings, usually specifying ways in which things could be changed positively.
- It is regarding your countering challenges to your opinions by accusations of incivility at the very first instance that means I would love to hear an apology from you. It ought to be the easiest thing in the world. For as long as I am at Wiki, I will welcome such an apology from either of you, and esteem you all the more for it.
- Regards Alastair Haines (talk) 21:29, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
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