Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:06, 5 December 2005

(Old stuff cleared out.)

Wikicities.com | My Website

Did you come here looking for something fun to do? Ok, now would be a good time to go speedy delete some images from "Images with unknown source" and "Images with unknown copyright status". According to the new speedy deletion criterion (I just changed it), these can be deleted on sight when they have been on the site for at least 7 days.

A "Request for Release of Information"

Jimbo, I would like to direct your attention to a legal matter over at Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Thank_You_.26_Request_for_Release_of_Information. Thanks, Func( t, c, @, ) 04:34, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Coolcat, Davenbelle and Stereotek

Hi, this arbcom case was filed against User:Davenbelle and User:Stereotek by User:Tony Sideaway

I strongly believe there is a strong disconnect between the evidence presented (/Evidence /Coolcat) and arbitrators desicions (/Proposed decision).

In a nutshell I claim to have been subject to behavior explained on Misplaced Pages:Harassment as wiki-stalking. I have 6 admins (at least) backing me up for this. Regardless of this it has been proposed that I be prohibited from editing wikipedia for a year.

Whilst I appreciate that you have an immense workload, and that you prefer not to get involved in arbitration cases, I would be most grateful if you would do me the kindness of looking over the case in its present state and, if you wish to do so, intervene to point out these additional matters which have not been taken into account. The reason that I am appealing to you is that I am not satisfied that all evidentiary matters have been taken into account by the arbitrators, and I would appreciate it if you would provide your opinion on the matter to the Arbitration Committee.

Thanks --Cool Cat 01:52, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Jimbo, I am, of course, more than willing to discuss this matter if you like. I have confidence that the arbitration process will reach an appropriate conclusion. — Davenbelle 03:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

• P.S. Great project! (have a cookie) — Davenbelle 03:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Initial thoughts: I am not familiar with your case, but here and here, it appears that you are intelligent and dedicated to fixing the "references" section, using the right HTML code. However, here, you use incorrect English grammar: "The opinions towards abortion is mixed." However, here and here you exhibit GOOD English grammar -and some inappropriate language. I do not know what to make of it?? Kate's Tool here says that First edit 2005-02-04 08:07:12 and Total edits 11663 and Distinct pages edited 2537 and Edits/page (avg) 4.60 ...very impressive! Also, I know Tony Sidaway somewhat, and I think he is level-headed and mature. I would trust whatever he says. Also, here is a random diff, which leads me to believe that you really do want to contribute to the Wiki-Encyclopaedia in a positive way. Well, that's what I can see on the surface.--GordonWatts 03:18, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Miscelaneous thoughts:

cool cat reverts vandalism = good--GordonWatts 03:39, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Ibid. Good for cool cat--GordonWatts 03:43, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Adding links is good.--GordonWatts 03:46, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Ibid. = good--GordonWatts 03:47, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

WE looked at edits - now, let's look at "talk" & social skills: Cool cat admitted he made a mistake --good. --GordonWatts 03:49, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

More talk page diffs: Looks level-headed and mature--GordonWatts 03:51, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Initial Conclusions: Cool Cat looks a little bit excitable, and human, but I don't fully trust the ArbCom's Fascist restrictions placed on him. I have no knowledge of any ArbCom members except Neutrality, who is intelligent and hardworking -but also a little bit (in my opinion) selfish, thus, when I look at numerous talk and project page edits of Cool Cat and add that with what little I know about ArbCom (not really enough, sorry), I think that they are somewhat justified in doing what they did, but I would be willing to be my reputation that a thorough inquiry would find at least some overstep or abuse of power. I did not "capriciously" or "arbitrarily" come to this decision, and I have no conflict of interest; Neither ArbCom nor Neutrality has done anything against me at all. If I am shown to be wrong later, I will admit an error in analysis -and be quite surprised. Since the diffs right above are all "positive," please see my paragraph immediately above it for a few "negative" diffs about the cool cat -to be fair to ArbCom, that is.--GordonWatts 03:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

This is particularily disturbung; look at the restrictions they laid upon cool cat. Unreasonable. If he is that bad, ban him from editing for a year -period.--GordonWatts 04:02, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Davenbelle also makes good edits.--GordonWatts 04:07, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

He also is not afraid to get reviewed, hinting that he has nothing to hide.--GordonWatts 04:08, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Davenbelle also has social skills to debate without yelling. Good so far.--GordonWatts 04:10, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

However, Dave also made a very unusual deletion here??--GordonWatts 04:12, 24 September 2005 (UTC) Mistake -that was his own page: He has a right to do so.

He is polite, even when disagreeing here also. I see nothing odd here about Dave.--GordonWatts 04:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

But here and here Dave labels things vandalism, even when they are clearly edits of differeing interpretations. That is quite odd!--GordonWatts 04:15, 24 September 2005 (UTC) CORRECTION: Dave reverts things that are merely a difference of opinion; Sorry about that -I misread. However, did you have consensus or policy or some other good reason for reverting? Still looks odd, lol.--GordonWatts 21:11, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Dave looks like he is doing a good job here in helping shape the article. OK, folks, you will have to sort this out yourself, here, as "UNcle Gordon" doesn't get paid enough to settle disputes between Martians and Venusians, and Cats and Dogs, lol -even Kool Kats, OK?--GordonWatts 04:18, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Any thoughs from our lovely Stewardess?(no puns impied)...this is a serious matter though.Voice of All 15:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

:I think Inherently funny word is (usually) a model article for this sort of thing. Once upon a time the page had degenerated into a random assortment of anything that anyone felt was funny, and then some helpful and brave person came along and said "Look here, everything has to have a reference, period, and that's that." This was so obviously sensible that the page was immediately much improved and now (usually) is a wonderful article.

I'd say the exact same standard should apply here. Some terms are so commonly known that people may not feel that they need a reference, but then again, these are so common that finding references is trivial. Maybe you could set an arbitrary rule that any term with at least 100,000 hits in google doesn't actually need a cite, but anything less than that has to be backed up.

I hope this is a helpful idea.--Jimbo Wales 06:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Am I the only one who is uncomfortable with User:Voice of All(MTG)'s activism in this matter? Surely the process of closing an AFD should be simply one of weighing up the valid votes as fairly as possible? Regardless of the merit of the arguments, and of the page in question (and frankly, I would have voted "delete" on this page myself), comments like " get all this ... nonsense off Misplaced Pages" do not convey the level of impartiality that one would expect from an admin going about his or her duties. GeorgeStepanek\ 20:50, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps Jimbo is on to something here. I already cleaned up Sexual slang after its AfD(which I also closed) before I noticed that you responded. It looks MUCH better know. And 60%+ with policy vio is not "activisim"; besides consensus=/=strict vote tallying.Voice of All(MTG) 06:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

one laptop per child project synergy with wiki?

Heard of the one laptop per child project yet?

How best to synergize? Be a great way to bootstrap a language's wikipedia, to be sure, though surely much more could be realized.

Each one of them there laptops'll have a passable digital camera. Could be a neat part wikifying peace and equality in our time.

Anyhoo, betcha the folks at the OLPC project would receive well some official interest from the folks at Misplaced Pages.

-:)Ozzyslovechild 00:48, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Nicholas Negroponte is a big fan of Misplaced Pages and often mentions us in conjunction with his talks about one laptop per child. He quite properly regards Misplaced Pages as a great use for such devices. :-) --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

NOR policy update needed

I think that photos, which are intended to make a specific point, should not be uploaded to Misplaced Pages unless they have been previously published by a disinterested, reputable 3rd party.

Flikr.com, weblogs, partisan political web sites (dailykos, freerepublic, etc) and such are not acceptable, but commercial news organizations and commericial publishers and to a lesser extent, non-profits would be ok. There is simply too much opportunity out there to stage photos, for example:

Supporters of Candidate A take Candidate B's signs and make a big mess in a parking lot with them and leave also a lot of trash like water bottles and sandwich wrappers.... the Wiki caption for this reads, "trash left behind after local rally for B".

Clearly it's a staged photo intended to make a point. If the control parameter of "intended to make a point" is not enforced, the excuse regarding the above scenario would be "I found the trash & signs in the parking lot and merely snapped the photo". Such assertions could not be disproved, opening a pandora's box of scheming opporunities.

Rex071404 06:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

The list of examples of this problem is not long, surely? Pcb21| Pete

Why does that matter? This is a loophole which should be closed - see talk on this subject at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy) and Talk:John Kerry. Rex071404 13:37, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Y'all are trying to create a new policy where one isn't needed. All of this falls under Misplaced Pages:Verifiability. If a credible source hasn't identified or reported on the subject of the photograph, then any caption beyond, "This is a pile of trash someone took a picture of" is unverifiable. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I think that's exactly right. It is a legitimate thing to think about, but we have a longstanding tradition of not making up new policies to solve hypothetical problems. If this gets to be a real problem, we can address it then. :-) --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

(I deleted a few other thoughtful comments just because I'm in a major housecleaning mode.)

Fair-use images in templates

Adam Carr has informed me that you've approved the use of certain non-free images in templates. Is this correct? --Carnildo 20:32, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't know. I don't remember ever thinking about it. :-) --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Enough already...

Yo, dude. We get it. You're a popular fellow. Everyone likes you. People like to talk to you about "important" stuff. But hows about you clean up your talk page some? :-) Being a wiki, I would do it, but didn't know whether you kept an archive of any kind or if you simply blanked old discussion. It is getting rather long and starting to get slow to load for some of us slower users. Well, users with slower connections, not necessarily "slower users". Thanks. --LV 20:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Finally I'm doing it now. :-) Your comment provoked me actually. I'm going to be home in December and January (no travel!) and plan to spend a ton of time camping out on the Wiki.

Wiki-meta associations

Some have stated that an Association known as the Association of "Moral" Wikipedians is valid for deletion. Can a Wiki-association, even with some beliefs against the NPOV, be valid for Deletion?

Canadianism 02:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Popularity

How popular are you as a person? Misplaced Pages has been increasing in popularity. By the way, I saw you on Attack of the Show on G4.

I would highly doubt Jimmy is a celebrity, getting strangers saying hi to him on the streets of St. Petersburg. -- user:zanimum

I'm almost completely unknown to the general public. To my knowledge, no one has ever recognized me randomly. I do get recognized at tech conferences at which I am a speaker and in which my picture is in the program, but I don't think this means much. :-) --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Watch

An article posted at Misplaced Pages Watch declares itself to be an open letter to you. So I have moved it to User talk:Jimbo Wales/Wikipedia Watch. -- RHaworth 09:42, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#DreamGuy

Hi. This week I raised an objection to the Arbitration Committee's closure of Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/DreamGuy without attempting to form a decision; at this point the objection has been removed once by Raul654, who made the original motion to close. It seems there is no recourse for users involved in a request that has simply been ignored by the arbitrators, and I currently have no confidence in the arbitration process. A problem exists, it has not been addressed, and there is a strong indication it will continue. Could you please comment on this? ‣ᓛᖁ♀ᑐ 15:30, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Ivan Gundulić

Administrator help: Ivan Gundulić article. Whether he should be concidered Serbian or not. This: (in English) and these, which writes perfectly about his entire Serbian ancestry and this: which states his life's works and Serbian commemoration. However, the newer version of Britannica (the upper-mentioned is older) claims that he is Croatian; although, it has been proven unreliable as it claims that Rudjer Boskovic was also a Croat, yet he was a Serb. What should we do? HolyRomanEmperor 18:20, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

State the facts, as you did above. Let the reader judge the reliability/validity of the sources. If conclusive evidence emerges, future editors can update the article accordingly. My 2 c. — David Remahl 21:08, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

That's exactly the answer I would have given. On any point of legitimate controversy, Misplaced Pages ought not to take a stand. Now, having said this, I would begin to wonder what caused Britannica to change their minds during the intervening decades. Quite possibly, there is some definitive research in this area which ought to be cited as well? I know nothing about it of course. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikisource, copyrights, guidance?

At Wikisource, we could really use some help from Wikimedia on copyright. The most urgent question is whether we can archive United Nations Security Council Resolutions under "fair use", see the debate here. However, the impact goes far beyond UNSRC. The same logic disallowing those would also apply to U.S. state laws, the Iraqi constitution, international treaties, etc. So, we very much need some guidance on fair use, which is very complicated. While "fair use" is mostly determined under U.S. common law, Section 107 of the copyright code codifies (quite unclearly) a part of this, but 107 is neither mandatory nor exclusive nor limiting on common law. Does Wikimedia have access to an attorney competent in this area who could provide some guidance?

Thanks very much,

Wolfman 15:40, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom ruling

Jimbo, have you taken the time to look over Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Everyking 3 and consider the issues surrounding it? Basically, the case concluded with a decision to ban an administrator from communicating on the administrators' noticeboard, and also restricted my communication elsewhere by limiting what I can say about other admins. Mainly I criticize the decision for two reasons: 1) I was not given proper time to present evidence (I had a month, and admittedly did not use it, but I feel there should've been no rush, and I shouldn't be blamed for using my Misplaced Pages time primarily for actual editing instead of litigation—note that the ArbCom is always careful to acknowledge that my editing is good even if they think I have a horrible personality. I feel a temporary injunction could have alleviated any concerns about my allegedly problematic behavior while giving me time to gather evidence and discuss matters in detail with the arbitrators.) 2) I was contrite about my incivility on the AN pages, and I had clearly stopped making the kinds of comments the ArbCom objected to (partially for several months, completely for the most recent few weeks). I do maintain that the things I was complaining about were worse than my reactions to them (deeds being more harmful than words), but I fully acknowledge that I was excessive in the criticism and it would've been more constructive if it had been toned down. Part of the reason why I often reacted so bitterly was because I saw in the mistreatment of others the same mistreatment that was done to me early in the year, and wanted them to be treated fairly by our more aggressive admins. But this contrition was disregarded entirely by the arbitrators. I'm not sure why. Possibly they thought I was being insincere; possibly they felt that a case that had progressed so far had to reach the normal conclusion (a punitive ruling); possibly other reasons.

As far as other reasons go, one of them was stated by Raul in an IRC conversation I had with him: basically, my views are illogical and crazy and therefore aren't acceptable even if I am perfectly civil about them. So it's irrelevant if I apologize for the incivility; the views still need to be kept quiet. How do you, personally, feel about this notion? Another reason was more overt: they said that my comments were "ignorant" and I needed to research situations before commenting on them. I deny that they were uninformed in general, and could have offered a mountain of proof of my comments being obviously informed by the evidence of the cases I was considering; furthermore, the ArbCom is itself guilty of ignoring the evidence in three cases against me (there are numerous comments on the cases' various talk pages illustrating blatant ignorance of the matters they were arbitrating), so even if I was guilty here they'd be in no position to judge me.

I would like to hear your thoughts about the situation? This is something short of an outright appeal, just a request for an opinion from someone whose opinion counts. Everyking 07:06, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I think you need to delegate or something, Jimbo. I mean, you don't respond, no matter how long I wait. I understand if you're busy, but maybe your role on the project needs to be filled by multiple people. Everyking 14:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to butt-in, but this must be the most hilarious thing I've seen all month.

James F. (talk) 15:09, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm confused, but didn't Jimbo already delegate his dispute resolution role in this project? Kelly Martin (talk) 15:12, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

That's my understanding. Jimbo already has delegated the handling of user conduct disputes—to the Arbitration Committee. To be fair, I also understand that Jimbo retains an ultimate authority (backed in principle by the support of the Board) over Misplaced Pages. He serves as a final avenue for appeal with the authority to overturn ArbCom decisions. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh no, arbitrators are beating up on me. Fortunately I'm used to it. Everyking 19:15, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Per the note I made above, I suspect that Jimbo may be reluctant to comment on this request–'something short of an outright appeal'though it may be–because his words do carry a significant weight. A casual statement by Jimbo on the issue would be taken by many to be a firm and direct endorsement or rejection of the ArbCom's decision; such a statement shouldn't be made lightly.

As an aside, Jimbo has only made 11 edits so far this month on the English Misplaced Pages. Out of 34 sections added to his talk page in the month of November, he has responded to only two. One was a direct response to a question about an admin action taken by Jimbo, the other dealt with a project that could spread Misplaced Pages to a new and broader audience. Unless Everyking does want to lodge a formal appeal, Jimbo seems to be taking a pretty light hand at en:. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

OK, I changed my mind; yes I do want to lodge a formal appeal. I want the whole ruling thrown out and the ArbCom formally reprimanded for so blatantly abusing the trust the community has placed in it. Let's see if that gets me a response any quicker. Everyking 05:10, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I accept your formal appeal. This didn't actually cause my quicker response, it's just that I've finally gotten around to cleaning up my user talk page. It will take me 'at least 1 week, and likely 3 weeks, to be able to respond properly to you though. I am still in extreme travel mode until December 3, and after that I will not be travelling at all (if I can help it) until February.

Good, I will try to keep my mouth shut and not complain anymore, then. Everyking 18:55, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Health of Mice

Hello, this is my first time contacting you. User:103749 attempted to create the article mouse health, not as vandalism, but as a forum page where people can come and ask other users questions about the specific topic (in this case, the health of mice). After I deleted the article, the user asked me if there is a way to create an article that can be dedicated just for the purpose of asking a question and having anyone answer it, similar to a forum but on Misplaced Pages. I told him that Misplaced Pages isn't that sort of project, but was wondering if there was a project like that on Wikimedia so I could give him a definite answer. Thanks! -- PRueda29 23:37, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Jimbo rarely shows up, so I'd recommend asking these questions elsewhere. That forum is at Misplaced Pages:Reference Desk, it's one of the best parts about wikipdia. Redwolf24 (talk) 00:10, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I would imagine that 'mouse health' might make for a great Wikicities site, actually. It's a legitimate topic for discussion and community knowledge-base building, but that isn't the same thing as an encyclopedia article. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Can this .............

Can the article "Contact Consequences" be looked at to determine if this article should be terminated, if time permits ? Just found out that you're THE Boss of Misplaced Pages. The article is being cleaned up by the Clean-up Task Force. I'm new to Misplaced Pages, looking for a guide, so that I do'nt end up in trouble unwittingly.Martial Law 06:15, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Me again...

What is the deal with Wikibooks? You said only textbooks should be there, but currently most of WB is not textbooks. What about self-help, how-to-do-whatever, books? There are a lot of issues surrounding the new enforcement of policy there. Should we just start tagging modules with the speedy tag? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --LV 16:49, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Jimbo please provide some input. Misplaced Pages Fiction states that:

Wikibooks, Misplaced Pages's sibling project, contains instructional and educational texts. These include annotated works of fiction (on the Wikibooks:annotated texts bookshelf) for classroom or private study use.

So works of fiction are allowed at Wikibooks? Even the Misplaced Pages Wikibooks article states:

The project is a collection of free textbooks, manuals, and other texts, with supporting book-based texts, that is written collaboratively on this website.

Quite a bit of stuff is in line to be transwikied from WP to WB that does not fit under the "textbook provision". Either there is a ton of misinformation about what Wikibooks is and it has strayed from it's original intention, or you are vastly trying to change Wikibooks a long time into the development. Please let us know what we should do. Should we go around changing all the Wikibooks information, or should we go around changing all the Wikibooks? Thanks. --LV 18:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to keep pestering you, and appearing impatient, but we over at WB are awaiting an answer to know what direction to go. --LV 18:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

$100 computer

I suspect you're already aware of this project. I wasn't, until reading they'd rejected Steve Jobs' offer of free OS X in favor of open source software. I imagine it would be good for Misplaced Pages to see whether there is a role for us in this initiative. - Nunh-huh 03:26, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I've met Nicholas Negroponte, and he's a big fan of Misplaced Pages. He's on record stating that he'd like to see Misplaced Pages on the $100 laptop. My own opinion is that Misplaced Pages is one of the 'killer apps' for this device. --Jimbo Wales 06:17, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Glad you're on top of it. I can't figure out how that would work (memory and storage-wise), but as long as someone can! - Nunh-huh 06:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is abysmal at covering the places that this fabled laptop is aimed at — see here. All the other major encyclopedias have better coverage. - Xed 00:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Given every Misplaced Pages user is a potential contributor, an influx of new users from these underserved regions will probably improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of them. - Counterpoint, 19 November 2005

I agree with Xed on this point -- our coverage of the less developed world could be a lot better. On the other hand, take just about any article in this area, and compare it to what it looked like a year ago, and significant progress has already been made. This is no reason for complacency, of course. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Personal opinion and concern

Hello Jimbo I am sorry to disturb you, as I know that you are busy and I am not a registered user. But since a while I look how an article about the Salvation Army develops. After writing in the "talk" without receiving an answer please let me tell you, that I regret deeply, that the quality in parts of the article is not very good. It's also a question what is needed in an encyclopedia article about the Salvation Army. If you like to write everything they do or have done, you can scan libraries! Less quantity but more quality would be asked in such an article. Would it not be possible that you try to get experts on such a theme? (I am not paied by the Salvation Army but have a private museum about it therefore I believe that I am allowed to give a comment.) Perhaps you wonder why I do not make the changes which are needed? Because I fear the "edit-war" from people, who think that their opinion is more important. If I do correct and try to improve the article then.... What could be done, that someone who knows a lot about such a theme does not need to fear an edit war and perhaps endless discussions? I know it will never be possible to write such an article in way, that everybody is satisfied but it should be possible to really improve an article. kindest regards C.F. PS the quality of the German version is better, this I have checked

GFDL and deleted content

Hello Jimbo, how does the GFDL handle deleted content? It seems to me that all GFDL contributions to wikipedia that aren't copyright violations themselves (or obvious vandalism too perhaps) would have to be saved and delivered by wikipedia somehow? What happens if an article exists for a few months and then for one reason or another it is deleted, doesn't the GFDL require wikipedia to in some way deliver that content to users? Just wondering. zen master T 19:03, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The basic answer is no. The GFDL does not impose an obligation to continue distributing any material. It simply requires that whatever content is distributed must comply with the terms of the license. --Michael Snow 20:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Are you prepared?

Greetings, Jimbo, its Master Jay. I was wondering if you, or perhaps the core of sysops, have a plan in the event of a fresh wave of attacks. In other words, is there a troll-prevention plan, or something along the lines of that. Thanks for your time. You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you vandalize Misplaced Pages. (You must be thinking "it must be a bad joke.) - Don't block me.--Master Jay 00:23, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Malware

The Willy on Wheels stole the password of my previous account. I think he has trojan malware to fish out passwords with.

Suspiciously, WoW is trying to use legitimate accounts to circumvent the security against his Willy-style usernames. My old username is SuperDude115. --Nintendude 02:38, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Have you emailed this to wikitech-l? They would be well placed to look into it. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Polygamy "Decision" was a "Summary Judgment & Execution" made without ever hearing all the facts

On 02:52, 15 November 2005, the Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Polygamy "decision" was made to push out a rare proven topic expert on polygamy, while giving free reign to a hostile proven anti-polygamy editor to misinform Misplaced Pages readers with propaganda POV. Unfortunately, their anti-expert "Decision" was made completely without any consideraton of the facts or fairness whatsoever. Truly, the evidence testifies (to any honest observer) against the making of this "Summary Judgment and Execution" where considering the facts had never been allowed or performed.

Could you please take a look?

Sure, I'll take a look sometime in the next 3 weeks. I deleted the rest of what you posted here, but I'll read that too. --Jimbo Wales 16:53, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Poll regarding ArbComm member selection process

Jim:

Hello! I hope you're well. I want to inform you of a 'straw' poll currently underway regarding possible alternatives to selecting arbitrators (The Strawman Cometh :)). There appears to be a clear majority – a consensus, if you will – for electing ArbComm members. Let me know if you've any questions. Anyhow, enjoy, and thanks for your consideration! E Pluribus Anthony 17:30, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I will be very surprised—pleasantly surprised, of course—if Jimbo pays any attention to this. He must have a good reason to have decided to override the community's wishes and established practice—I suppose he finds the idea of the community expressing its wishes on this matter worrying for some reason. For my part, I find it worrying that he would find that worrying. Everyking 10:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Polls are evil. Given the pathetic state of RfA, I do not think its wise to "elect arbcom" at this point. Even if there is a vote, I think it should have a jimbo approval. --Cool Cat 17:45, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

• I for one would at least like to hear what Jimbo's reasoning actually is - especially as the previously elected ArbCom turned out very well (even if the elections were unpleasant, but that unpleasantness can be resolved in other ways than by not having elections). Radiant_>|< 18:39, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Jimbo, please...

There is a lot of turmoil over at Wikibooks. Please see the above post of mine if it got passed over. If not you, some other member of the Board. Thanks. --LV 19:21, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Señor Wales

Hey, I'm looking forward to meeting you in January down in St. Pete. So what else do you guys do when you go to these places? Molotov (talk) 23:52, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Jimbo, from Edward G. Nilges (spinoza1111)

Spinoza1111 05:43, 25 November 2005 (UTC)For my further comments on your phenomenon, Mr. Wales, see my blogs at http://www.developerdotstar.com/community/node/295 or at www.apress.com. Thanks for the space to introduce myself and say hello.

Spinoza1111 04:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)I learned of wikipedia a year ago and have made some contributions, most of which survived: see the Adorno page. I find your essay on NPOV one of the most moving and intelligent things I have ever read.

I am no "libertarian". Instead, my explanation for your success is that it confirms Marx's view that the source of knowledge is the people. In a dialectic, what seemed initially to be the worst idea in the world becomes the best idea in the world.

I have long learned to look for knowledge in ignorance and love in hate for that is the way the world works in my experience. At the level of human affairs, the dialectic may work because you're talking not about atoms in a gas but intelligent and emotive agents whose mathematics is not yet fully explored or known. Thus your discovery of the wisdom of the crowd can logically coexist with our knowledge of its madness and is itself redemptive.

As a published computer author (Build Your Own .Net Language and Compiler) I suppose that I should resent and fear this form of Adorno's "Nightmare of Childhood": for my fat and it must be admitted, prolix pal Theodore Adorno, the Nazi mob was the crystallization of all the old fears of the Parzival, the upper middle class child protected from birth by Herzelied against what Wagner called "the clangor" and the mob.

I have to remind myself. These were my father's fears, from the era of WWII. I need to sort out what I fear and do not fear.

I have learned through experiences which cannot be shared when ladies are present that there are moments when the nightmare has to be taken to the crisis and Misplaced Pages is the crisis I have been searching for all my life, one with a theme in a major key (NPOV).

It has the nightmare potential of slavery at some future date in which people are forced to maintain wikipedia as slaves. But of course one joins today from freedom of the will.

So keep up the work you do.

I find it rather difficult to imagine a future scenario in which "people are forced to maintain wikipedia as slaves". Do you mean that you expect the Wikimedia Foundation to one day become part of a world government that conscripts workers to maintain its sites? I guess one could come up with a dystopian science-fiction story with such a plotline, but it seems rather unlikely for the real world. Anyway, a Misplaced Pages maintained by slaves would likely be extremely poor in quality, as it's better to have the work be done by a small group who cares about what they do than a large group who's forced to do it.

Looking at your other contributions and comments, I see that you're prone to writing lengthy essays stemming from some sort of leftist/Marxist/deconstructionist sociopolitical agenda of yours, which hasn't gone over very well especially when you try to apply it to everything from comic strips to programming languages. You'll do better here if you tone down your attitude a bit. *Dan T.* 19:50, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Spinoza1111 10:09, 20 November 2005 (UTC)I find it useful and have no plan to chill. And, having an agenda is part of being a grownup with beliefs and goals so you bet your sweet patootie, assuming you have some sort of a sweet patootie, I have an agenda. I read computer programs "deconstructively" since there is no other way to read them. As to comic strips which manufacture consent to unacceptable lives, it's high time.

Gee, I hope this place is not some fucking cult...in which new entrants are supposed to be some sort of *tabula rasa* and in which we're all supposed to be worried about making a good impression on the Maximum Leader.

The fact is that Jimbo is on to something which is going to be fucked up bigtime if it becomes "reified" in the sense of stopping thought. I'm a person and not a POV and thus I have no need to be N.

For example, the Dilbert article is today not an ad for Dilbert junk as it was before I moseyed in, and it contains a well-balancing section today, with references, which shows that there are people, like Norman Solomon, who find the Dilbert sends a conformist message. This makes the article more truly NPOV, but I had the energy to do the homework demanded by other participants because I have a POV about Dilbert.

That old stinker Marx actually believed that capitalism is one big fat POV which as a POV systematically erases any other POV, such as the POV of indigneous tribes eradicated in primitive accumulation, or the POV of the working stiff. He believed that we'd only be "objective" after the Revolution.

He may have been wrong, but basically he was interested in NPOV same as anyone else. If he had believed in the POV of the stronger, he would not have been able to criticise capitalism at all.

What Jimbo is on to is that NPOV exists and we need it. However, it is easily confused with being a dull fellow or a tabula rasa.

However, you may have a rational fear that I might be The Great Soviet Encyclopedia type of person. All I can say is that Wales' essay seems to distinguish between people and views.

As to my science fiction story, the potential for slavery exists all over the entire open source movement. As I said, the potential is in a dialectic relationship with freedom as regards wikipedia and open source.

I'm not saying "Freedom is Slavery" in Orwell's sense, or, if I am, it depends on what the meaning of "is", is, as it did for Clinton.

I am saying that information isn't "produced", it is something that comes to be known. A society in which information production is no longer a matter of paid authorship is one that has relieved itself of one more onerous task, and that's a good thing. The devil is in the details and in the treatment of people who did not contract to work for free.

Protection Tool Update

I really like the idea of multiple layers of protection. We could have:

Open(no protection)

1. No Moves
2. Logged in Only
3. Logged in with edit count 25+
4. Logged in with edit count 100+(pretty much like protection, but non-admins can edit)
5. Protected

Numbers 2-4 are "semiprotection". This would VASTLY cut down on vandalism and would be no where NEAR as restrictive and anti-wiki as page protection. Can you get this implemented somehow? What developers could do this? Thank you.Voice of All 05:25, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Even if a time-limited protection of an article could be imposed to stop IP editing of an individual article or page, where a vandal is jumping between IPs to target a page for continuous vandalism, it would cut vandalism while avoiding full protection which stops genuine users editing an article. Most articles are not being continually edited by IPs. Often the vandal is the only one. So an ability to say protect this page for four hours from IP edits when this page was being targeted by one vandal jumping between IPs would not inconvenience many users (in that four hour spell no other IPs might want to edit this page) but it would close off the opportunity for the vandal. (While they could create user accounts to dodge the ban, I suspect most wouldn't, because they'd be afraid that 'going public' with a name would mean that they could be caught and dealt with more easily than when hiding under an anonymous IP. FearÉIREANN 21:26, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Request for Semi-Protection, Vandalism, Future of Misplaced Pages discussion on IRC

What's up Jimbo, I just wanted to ask if you could arrange and meet on IRC sometime with as many users from the mailing list, hopefully some developers, and many editors who have become involved in the discussion about what to do to combat rising vandalism. Several options have been discussed in both the Village Pump, Bugzilla, and highly vandalized pages such as George W. Bush, but it seems always to hit a wall. Let me know if you're available for such a meeting and I will spread the word to the extensive amount of editors currently involved in the discussion. --kizzle 01:39, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Did you get my previous note about semi-protect? I left it on this talk page...and it vanished with everyhing else. I agree with Kizzle here...its time to semi-protect.Voice of All 14:04, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it should be considered but may I suggest on-site. Marskell 14:17, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

If I may, I would like to join Voice of All in favor of a semi-protection function. The overwhelming amount of vandalism that the George W. Bush article receives needs to be preventable, and rolling back using traditional methods is no longer viable. Hall Monitor 19:48, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I'm not sure where I stand on the semi-protection feature, but I do want to have a discussion over what options we have to limit vandalism, especially to such pages as George W. Bush, and to have a serious debate as to balancing what is considered "wiki" versus realistic consequences of massive upscaling. --kizzle 23:36, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I reckon it would be helpful to publish some data on how vandalism is rising (seems easy enough - just publish the total amount of time that a popular article such as GWB has spent in a vandalized state this week, and for the past N weeks). We assume that this amount is rising, and if it is, we pick a threshold (which we may well have already past) and say look we are going to have to have extra protection for this page. Data is really useful here. People have requested semi-protection of one kind of another for years, so it will meet resistance on this round too. Provide data to show what you think is happening and the status quoers will not be able to fiddle whilst our Rome burns. Pcb21 Pete 09:47, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

This has been informally done at GWB Talk a few times. I recall, for instance, checking last 250 and concluding 87% was vandalism or reversions a month ago. At times it will be vandalized 6 to 10 times an hour. Beyond question something must be done about the page and indeed, semi-protection may only really be needed there. Marskell 10:01, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

While the absolute number of reversions is important too, the most important statistics is the proportion of time an article spends vandalized (if the number of vandals increases, it stands to reason that the number of good guys increases too, thus decreasing the amount of time to revert). I haven't seen this statistic around, but maybe I missed it. 10 times an hour, with let's see a mean time to revert of 1min means that the article is vandalized 16% of the time. To me, this is way over the threshold I mentioned above. But you are right GWB is a special case, perhaps even a unique special case, so we need to be careful to avoid a slippery slope (our previous experience shows that on WP if something can be a slippery slope, it will be!) Pcb21 Pete 10:13, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't think a vandalism magnet like GWB would give a particularly good statistical sample. Raul654 19:59, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Of course not, but that does not negate the fact that some additional measures must be taken on these highly vandalized pages. You can put it to an admin vote, run it through arbcom instead of admin discretion, whatever is decided, but something must be done. I think if we had this discussion on IRC it would be much better, as I'm tired of banging my head against a wall talking about this with huge popular support and no consideration even by those who can do something about it. --kizzle 20:26, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

People can provide data for whatever pages they see fit as far as I am concerned. My suggestion was more about finding a way of kizzle stopping having to "bang his/her against a wall". People have been talking about long-term protection for years, so its not surprising that old lags don't jump to attention on this occasion. I am suggesting a way that would convince me to change my otherwise entrenched "wiki-way" views (depending on the results)... I am sure it would others too. Pcb21 Pete 22:19, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I wasn't suggesting GWB gives a good statististical sample. Just the opposite--literally, there is no other page you can compare it to. And I want to emphasize my comment here: George Bush needs semi-protection regardless of activity on other pages. I watch WWIII, Bill Clinton, Hitler, and a gaggle of others--there is no comparison. GWB is an enormous drain on time for those who watch it and "hey, just revert like you normally do" isn't sufficient. Click 500 and you'll see a given admin (or not necessarily an admin--some good faith contributor) who will spend an hour reverting the same vandalism. Why the hell are we wasting that time? Marskell 22:36, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

So. What proportion of the time is the GWB page vandalised? Pcb21 Pete 08:07, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, I remember seeing a comment a day or so ago that every one of the last 270+ edits was a vandalism or a revert of a vandalism. Raul654 08:12, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Funny how three times in a row I ask one question and people answer another. I don't care (so much) about number of vandalisms and reverts - that increases over time is an obvious consequence of increasing number of editors and vandals. The relevant metric is the proportion of time the GWB page is vandalized. If people who want to restrict our wiki freedoms, they should at least have the courtesy to give some data that it is necessary. Pcb21 Pete 09:00, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Whoa there. People are attempting to answer--but necessarily indirectly as it isn't a stat you can generate just like that. You yourself extrapolated 16% of an hour if there are ten. Granted, that would be an exceptional hour but I have seen it. There were apx. 30 reverts yesterday, with two or three admins reverting eachother over the protect tag. Apx. 50 on the 22nd and just over 40 on the 21st. Again, assuming a minute per, say half an hour to an hour vandalized daily. Durin is probably the guy who could get us a more accurate stat. Marskell 10:42, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Let us suppose that a edit that gets reverted is vandalism. Then simply add up the the total time a reverted edit is visible on the site divided by the length of the obervation period... voila, a percentage. Possible problems: i) admins abuse their rollback button by reverting stuff that isn't vandalism, ii) data is rounded to the nearest minute - will quantization errors average out quickly enough. Might do this myself, probably better than me just talking about it :) ... Pcb21 Pete 11:02, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Data

Ok, I did what I should have done before and wrote a script myself.

Arbitarily picking revisions 501-1000 of the George W. Bush article: There were 7988 minutes of time when the GWB was visible in a state that was not later reverted using the rollback button, and 253 minutes of time when it was visible in a state when it was later reverted. Thus, in this period, we estimate that we have 3.1% vandalism. Sounds unacceptably high to me.... Pcb21 Pete 12:09, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

By comparison, Sperm Whale, which I would describe as a typical good article (i.e. featured, been on main page, fairly mainstream topic, some minor differences on which people are likely to take POVs but not too many) has spent 0.7% of its time vandalized. Pcb21 Pete 12:16, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

That's almost exactly 45 minutes in any 24 hour period which checks out with the rougher estimates above. It also does not include non-rollback reverts which would increase the % somewhat.

It is too high. But where to force the issue? This conversation has occured numerous times and then gets dropped because nothing is done about it. The best idea I've heard is to allow editing there with the same limitations we apply to page moves. Marskell 16:54, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Whatever the answer is, it requires developer or Wales' participation in this discussion to actually reach a productive conclusion. --kizzle 07:04, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps we (the community) should introduce a kludge solution - GWB gets protected, and all edits are made to GWB (editable). Our ever-industrious admins transfer all non-vandal edits to the main page manually. Yes it's a kludge but it also solves the problem. Historically the existence of kludges has offended the sensibilities of developers and they are coerced into creating better solutions ;) Pcb21 Pete 08:55, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I guess that's the best we can do until either Wales or a developer steps in to the discussion. We're definetely going to get a lot of "anti-wiki" comments, but oh well. --kizzle 19:11, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I absolutely do not think that a "decision" about this perceived problem must come by decree from Jimbo... I think 3 % downtime isn't a bad price to pay for the incredible dynamism that has made Misplaced Pages the most popular encyclopedia on the web. Besides, the article is usually completely readable in its "vandalized" state, especially when the "vandalism" stays for longer than a couple of minutes. If the whole article is rendered useless (the whole page is replaced with "he sux!!!1!" practically the first person who visits the article will revert it. If less blatant vandalism such as "He is stupid." being added to the end of his bio persists for a couple of hours, that isn't much of a problem.

Expanding the availability of the rollback facility to everyone (but revoking it liberally) would be a wiki-like improvement. — David Remahl 19:28, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Of course it doesn't need to come by decree from Jimbo, but like I said, I've been a part of these discussions for some time, which always receive heavy support for either semi-protection by levels as proposed above, or to a lesser extent the "wedge" solution by Pcb above. Every time, it gets dropped because Village pump has no authority to make such changes, and no developer on Bugzilla wants to get involved. One of the hallmarks of Misplaced Pages is developing a collaborative concensus, and in my experience, there is significantly more of a concensus for some sort of additional measures to be implemented only on certain pages such as GWB. It is irrelevant how "readable" the article is in its vandalized state, it makes us look like fools and validates every naysayer's knee-jerk reaction to the aims of this project. Both the way things are right now and the proposed leveled semi-protection have advantages and disadvantages. I personally can't see how anyone could justify only on GWB maintaining an 87% vandalism rate on 50-100 edits a day is better than letting the one anonymous editor who comes in and correct a spelling error. It's not like they're going to be turned off the project if they can't edit one page for special reasons. --kizzle 20:27, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd like Jimbo to give us his opinion, though, for the following reason: GWB is an article that is difficult, if not impossible, to improve. As a result, the article can only go down, it cannot become better. This was bound to happen at one point or another in Misplaced Pages; as economists say, we've reached the point where diminishing marginal returns become negative marginal returns, and leaving the article open for editing can only hurt us. It might be the time to have a discussion on Misplaced Pages's basic principles, and how to adapt them in the future. Titoxd 05:19, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Jimbo Wales

Hmm.. there currently is somewhat a disagreement between User:Cool Cat (me) and User:Voice of All(MTG). The actual change isnt much.

what I propose, his proposal. Since it is your userpage, I feel you should like it and hence decide how it should look. --Cool Cat 22:02, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

FYI, these last two wiki-links are not working. Or more specifically, they aren't pointing to any type of proposals. Are these semi-protection proposals? If so, I would love to read them. Hall Monitor 23:47, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Oh, no we are "fighting" over how Jimbos user page should look like :) --Cool Cat 12:36, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

This would be the best lamest edit war ever :)!

BTW, I modified the semi-protect tag too...muhahaha!!!Voice of All 13:01, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

ok... you seem to be hyper active... Tonikaku, there is no revert war that I am aware of on jimbos user page. I find revert wars disruptive and I make a great effort to steer clear of them. --Cool Cat 17:34, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Jimbo Che

Whats up with that? Communism vandal would be delighted :P, maybe we need an elaboration of the symbolism. :) --Cool Cat 17:40, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Does telling someone to "fuck off" qualify as a personal attack?

Hello Mr. Wales. I am contacting you regarding a recently filed RFC, Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Duncharris, which was established for the purpose of resolving serious incivility issues between one Dunc Harris and a number of different editors on Misplaced Pages, including other administrators. User:Duncharris, a wiki-en administrator, has been making frequent use of vulgarities in edit summaries as well as profane personal attacks directed at other editors. During the course of the RFC, an argument was made that responding to someone who requests civility during discussion by telling them to "fuck off" is permittable under certain circumstances. Would you agree with this? Please review the discussion as I would greatly value your insight into the matter. Thank you, Silensor 20:42, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I think for an administrator to behave in such a fashion is a terrific disgrace and that he should be desysopped. I'm sure the ArbCom will take care of the matter in due course, of course.--Jimbo Wales 17:23, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

So do you think that those you have personally appointed to the ArbCom should hold themselves to similar standards?

• "Just what the hell are you doing?" "I don't know what shit you're trying to pull here" "GET IT THE HELL OFF THE INTERNET"
• (as justification for the above): "I'm not a diplomat; I'm a sysadmin. You wanted a diplomat, you hired the wrong BOFH."

Under the circumstances, I think the irony of assigning the ArbCom to be the bearer of such standards is evident. --Tabor 16:35, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Not that this is relevant to the actual subject, but, the evidence provided by Tabor above is not convicing: None of the three quotes are personal attacks(although they do use strong language), the third is not even a command - the full quote is: "Either your computer has been compromised, in which case GET IT THE HELL OFF THE INTERNET, or you're feeding us a line of BS.", and the person in question was not acting as an a member of the ArbCom. If that's the best you can find, that's a sign that things are working, not broken. JesseW, the juggling janitor 20:15, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

I didn't say they were personal attacks, but I did find them highly uncivil and vulgar. It's not the worst I could find, it's just something I happened to notice because it was quite recent. If these are the standards for civility for the most trusted members of the community, I find that troubling. If "I don't know what shit you're trying to pull here" is an acceptable way to address contributors, I'm thinking it's time to find another project. (BTW, it was in relation to the use of CheckUser investigation -- how is that not acting as a member of the ArbCom? Isn't that how the priveleges are granted now?) --Tabor 19:51, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Clarification Sought

Please advise where I can find official policies on WikiBOOKS as to what is appropriate and not and the policies regarding deletions and speedy deletions. Also, in Wikibooks, who has final authority, you or the board. This is simply a request for clarification that does not imply any kind of protest or expression of preference. Best place for response is User discussion on WikiBOOKS: Frog One (note caps) Thank you. Frog one 20:31, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

$100 laptop comment

Hi jimmy, I've referenced your talk page on a comment you made regarding the $100 laptop. Specifically, this is the text: "Negroponte has also said he'd like to see Misplaced Pages on the $100 laptop. Jimmy Wales himself feels that Misplaced Pages is one of the 'killer apps' for this device.". I'm not sure whether using your talk page as a reference is ok, if it's not somebody should change this. Jacoplane 16:09, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

The spec for the over-hyped machine states that it has 1GB of Flash memory. To include all of Misplaced Pages and an OS on the laptop would be impossible (without severely pruning Misplaced Pages). Misplaced Pages on the $100 laptop seems to be an illusion. I can't find any source where Negroponte states it's going to be on it. Indeed, one of the designers of the laptop, Alan Kay, has criticized Misplaced Pages . - Xed 17:34, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not debating the facts, I was just asking whether it was allright to use this talk page as a reference in the article. Earlier in this page, Jimmy said "Yes, I've met Nicholas Negroponte, and he's a big fan of Misplaced Pages. He's on record stating that he'd like to see Misplaced Pages on the $100 laptop. My own opinion is that Misplaced Pages is one of the 'killer apps' for this device.", and this is what I was using as a reference. Also, in the very article you link to there is this: "It seemed like an odd swipe to take at Misplaced Pages, ... , and given the extent to which Negroponte has indicated that Misplaced Pages will likely be core to what’s distributed with the machine.". Jacoplane 17:43, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but I can't find a quote from Negroponte saying it's going to be on there - which is not surprising given the lack of room on the laptop. I can just find other peoples opinions. - Xed

Via : "He mentioned Misplaced Pages as an example of a major source of content for the initiative, and asked how many people in the audience use it - about 50%. "It's by far the best encyclopedia on the planet," he said. "It's so fresh, so current, if you go look up yourself, you're probably in it." "It's the Misplaced Pages equivalent (of hardware)," he said, describing the spirit of the laptop initiative. " ("He"==Negroponte). Jacoplane 23:07, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

"He mentioned Misplaced Pages as an example of a major source of content for the initiative" - that's very vague - is it going to be on the laptop or not? It doesn't explain how he's going to fit Misplaced Pages (maybe 18GB) onto the laptop (only 1GB), leaving me to think that the idea is at best wishful thinking, and at worst a hoax. - Xed 23:51, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

complete failure of wikipedia NPOV policy

This article Talk:Palestinian_exodus is a complete failure of wikipedia NPOV policy. Nearly 3 years ago it was anti-Palestinian. Now not a shred of that POV remain and it is completely biased to the other side. I have edited this article for a week, yet every single word i changed there got reverted by a coordinated revert gang which is able to circumvent in this way the 3RR rule. It seems that unless I am able to get a "gang" of my own:-) there is no point trying to get this article to be NPOV. slim and jayjg are involved yet they too do not make any contribution toward NPOV. This is not what Misplaced Pages is all about but it is what wikipedia has become.

I don't have the time or the organized manpower as the other side to go through the usual Misplaced Pages mechanism. These mechanisms have failed in this article. In 3 years not a single Misplaced Pages admin was able to make significant contribution to make this article NPOV. This is a symptom to other anti-Israel systematic bias that is spread all over wikipedia and I suggest you find a way to address it as I can't. Zeq 18:47, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I am still waiting for an action that would either enforce Wikipedai NPOV policy on this article or will change the policy so that this article could become balance. This article is looked upon by several people in Israel. 9or who care about israel) From your recent visit to the country I know this area is important to you and I am sure that if Misplaced Pages will continue to be a platform for anti-Israel one sided propeganda (instead of the neutral independent thought that it is supose tobe) this would refelct badly on your efforts in this area. Please take the time to address the systematic anti_israel bias that have cripped into Misplaced Pages. Zeq 07:23, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikimedia S&M bylaws

The first draft of the translation for the bylaws for Wikimedia Serbia & Montenegro is done. Delphine told me to tell Angela to look at them and make a comment, so I did it. She's going to do so too and Florence already did. The english version is here. You could take a look too. Thanks :) --Dungo (talk) 20:48, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

• Hehe, you said S&M ;-) the wub "?!" 22:43, 24 November 2005 (UTC) (with his mind in the gutter)

Jimbo

Do you agree with semi-protection or not? Do you have an opinion on the matter, is it not better than full protection?Voice of All 22:05, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Seconded. Sorry, but in this case we need a bit of monarchical rule. You should say yay or nay to the general idea of semi-protection. Marskell 22:10, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

A new picture?

Hi Jimbo. You're probably not in the habit of reading Talk:Aetherometry so may have missed http://www.aetherometry.com/antiwikipedia/awp_index.html which I think features you, somewhat photoshopped, off on the right hand side. William M. Connolley 12:25, 25 November 2005 (UTC).

Anti-Misplaced Pages rants seem to be a dime a dozen these days... usually coming from people who get in a huff because this site won't uncritically accept their own (often nutty) viewpoint without challenge. *Dan T.* 15:54, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

But this one is, I must say, particularly entertaining. :-) --Jimbo Wales 19:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Americans are funny!

Here's a good reason why people, especially Americans, should read your site!

http://media.putfile.com/On-The-Streets-Of-America-3

--Anittas 13:46, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Deleting Wikibooks

Please, just as a courtesy to the other admins and people who are trying to make Wikibooks a better place, let the admins on Wikibooks know if you want a Wikibook deleted. Removing an enitre Wikibook is more than simply deleting the first page, as it leaves a lot of "crumbs" behind that currently is not dealt with by Media Wiki software.

If you want b:Jokebook to be deleted, for example, just ask us (the admins) and we will do it for you.

Otherwise, please make sure that all of the sub-modules are also deleted. That is a huge task and can take quite a bit of time just to push through all of the pages on a large Wikibook. Leaving behind the other modules is just going to clutter up Wikibooks and perhaps even recreate the nightmare you are trying to get rid of. Orphaned modules are already a huge problem on Wikibooks that I for one don't want to see the problem get any worse. --Robert Horning 14:49, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

• nod* I understand. I only did it that way to make sure that I wasn't doing anything too non-reversible in case it was in error. I do understand that the full deletion will be more complicated.--Jimbo Wales 18:18, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbcom recusals

Hello - I wanted to alert you to a situation on a current Arbcom case that I feel is very inappropriate. The case was filed by User:Cberlet naming 5 other editors. User:Jayjg, an Arbcom member, has a lengthy personal history with Cberlet on wikipedia and has directly participated in many of the disputes that are involved in Cberlet's case. I posted these with a request that Jayjg recuse himself as the Arbitration policy requires, but he adamantly refuses. I fear as a result of his participation that this case could be skewed to favor Cberlet, who has engaged in many policy violations of his own. Could you please review this matter and advise? Thanks. Rangerdude 20:28, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Category:Images with unknown source count updated

I have updated the count of images in Category:Images with unknown source; it's down to 6576. Thanks for reminding me to do it. JesseW, the juggling janitor 20:29, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for publication

Hello Jimmy Wales, Misplaced Pages:Requests for publication is a proposal that will help implement Misplaced Pages:Pushing to 1.0. It basically involves putting up a protected version of an article, but most importantly the main editable version is there nonetheless. The premise is to give an article the Published status that entails quality - good quality that schools would have no hesitation to use Misplaced Pages rather than Encarta or Britannica. -- Zondor 18:42, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom elections

Given that December is near, would you please inform the community about the process to be used for the upcoming ArbCom formation, and would you please inform the community what your reasons are for not wanting to hold an open election? You may want to look at this page, on which many editors have expressed their preference for open elections. Radiant_>|< 00:22, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

P.S. We need more bandwidth! El_C 11:11, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Hellloooooo founder :) There's a discussion at WP:ANI and I think a relevant discussion (well perhaps not highly relavant, but a little relavant) at Misplaced Pages:Consensus. I kindly (on behalf of myself) request some clarifications about this. Take care! (Hasta la wikitoria siempre :D ) +MATIA ☎ 18:45, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

When was the last time one of those British monarchs whose constitutional role you say you model your Misplaced Pages role on exercised this kind of power? It's been a while. Quit making that comparison if you want to override consensus and convention. That's a highly autocratic thing to do, and to top it off the community hasn't even gotten an explanation about it so far, much less a dialogue. Everyking 06:01, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

For those interested in possible struggles between heads of state and government, there's an interesting article regarding the Australian constitutional crisis of 1975. Enjoy! E Pluribus Anthony 06:28, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

We must know...POLL

What is your opinion on semiprotect. Please stop avoiding discussion :-(. We just want to know what you think. Many other users want Semi-Protection too. We have yet to have a serious place of discussion for this new tool to actually get implemented.

All in favor/against the semiprotection proposal listed above(Not necessarily the exact numbers 25 and 100):

Support:

1. Voice of All 05:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
2. Personally, I think Jimbo is just busy. But I support the creation of a semi-protect proposal of some sort. Titoxd 05:56, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
3. Support either full-protection akin to how we protect the Main Page or this "semi-protect" idea. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 06:08, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
4. --kizzle 06:23, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
5. Support in some form. E Pluribus Anthony 07:16, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• • • Comment: This doesn't belong on Jimbo's talk page. He is not the king of wikipedia. These things must be decided by community consensus.--Ewok Slayer 21:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Oppose:

1. Wrong place... --Cool Cat 13:41, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

How to create policy

Might I suggest a more productive option? Misplaced Pages:How to create policy has some helpful suggestions, and Jimbo's input doesn't have much to do with it, particularly in the beginning phases—though he might offer his opinion all the same. This is really a community issue. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 07:26, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Yikes...doesn't look like a very good chance that a semiprotection or similar policy proposal has much hope of success. Thanks for the link though!--MONGO 19:20, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Yet I don't think there will be a problem reaching a supermajority on the matter. All it takes is enough advertising and for someone to create a proposal page. --kizzle 19:22, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Mindspillage, this is just to get the ball rolling. There has been substantial discussion already, and we want Jimbo's opinion now so we can do a full-fledged policy proposal. Titoxd 21:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Shall we create a proposal page at Misplaced Pages:Semi-protection or a meta page, perhaps? I'd love to contribute. -Mysekurity 02:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Do it. Flesh out a section for arguments both for and against then setup a vote tally. --kizzle 03:48, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

No voting! Kim Bruning 04:20, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Uhh, the page says we need to reach a supermajority of 70%, so I don't know how we're going to accomplish that if we can't vote. --kizzle 08:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that's worked just about ... twice... it's not so handy. I put a comment up about that on the talk page. Y'know: Just write it down, talk about it for a while, edit some more, and when it looks like no one will object to this final perfect product you've got, stick a policy tag on there. and cross fingers and hold your breath ;-) Kim Bruning 10:25, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Someone might want to update that policy page then and take out the supermajority section. There will always be arguments against semi-protection, as it has both its advantages and disadvantages, just like the way things are now. It's just a question of which advantages and disadvantages outweigh the other, thus we need the vote. And informally, with the level of support I've seen in the discussions I've been a part of, I don't think 70% is an unreachable goal.

Come on Jimbo, give these guys some helpful comment and then they'll be able to get on with making articles better ;) Pcb21 Pete 08:38, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Historically Black College and University recruitment

Hi Jimbo, Jmabel and myself have been discussing the merits of actively recruiting students and faculty from Historically Black Colleges and Universities. We have identified Wiley College as an ideal candidate for several reasons: they are the oldest HBCU west of the Mississippi, they have been a pioneer in the usage of computer technology in college education in Texas, and their location allows the outreach to send a representative in person, me. However, I have been putting it off because I realized that it would be odd to walk into Wiley to recruit on behalf of Misplaced Pages just because Joe and I think its a good idea. I thought it would be best if I consulted Anthere, Angela, and you and see what ya'll think before running off and making an appointment to discuss an outreach. Please respond as soon as you can. Thanks. -JCarriker 08:38, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello

Goodness....I can't believe I'm talking to the founder of wikipedia itself...! However, introductions are in order; my name is Megaman Zero, and I've been a part of your excellent community for almost a year now. I was wondering as a aspiring administrator, could you give me tips and some tidbits of advice...? Like I discussed with Mr. Sidaway, its been occupying my mindspace for awhile now... Also, could you take a look at my projects ( at the bottom of my userpage) and contributions and give me your humble opinion on my work..? I'd really like to know how helpful I'm being to my favorite site. Thanks for your time, and....nice to meet you..!-MegamanZero 12:37 28,November 2005 (UTC)

• Umm...okay..I take it you don't want to talk with me.. Sorry for wasting your time then...-MegamanZero 14:37 29,November 2005 (UTC)

It's not that he doesn't want to talk to you, it is just that he might not have had the chance. Jimbo doesn't always respond to everything, especially little things like your request. Instead of asking Jimbo, who is busy with Foundation things, try asking other current Admins. I see you've asked Tony, and that's a good first step. Check out the RfA page to see how you stack up against current nominees. Look at some recent successes and failures as well. --LV 14:54, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee elections, 2005.

Hi Jimbo,

It's been one month since you edited the Arbitration Committee elections page for this December (now just a few days away) to change the procedure, adding some brainstormed thoughts. Those thoughts are still all the information we have on the procedure, and we're almost in December.

A number of potential candidates have said they don't wish to put their name forwards if they don't know the election procedure, yet recently a member of the current Arbitration Committee said that all Wikipedians wishing to become arbitrators should put their name forwards immediately.

Yes, they all should. It would be good to put forward an indication of interest right away, and if anyone chooses afterwards to not participate of course their offer to participate can be withdrawn without any troubles. It will be quite helpful to us in deciding the best way forward to have accurate information about who is interested.--Jimbo Wales 12:51, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

This is really a terrible state of affairs for a number of reasons:

Firstly, we have no idea how the new Arbitration Committee is going to become the new Arbitration Committee at all. Not even the current arbitrators say they know how it's going to be done.

Yes, I am still talking to a lot of different people and gathering ideas to try to have the best possible go at it.--Jimbo Wales 12:51, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Are there reasons why these discussions are being held privately, and not openly on Misplaced Pages? Talrias (t | e | c) 17:41, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

What do you mean? There are public discussions and private discussions. Sometimes people want to email me opinions privately, sometimes people want to talk in public.--Jimbo Wales 18:02, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Is it possible to provide some kind of "general opinion" based on private discussions you've had (without any specifics). Just so we're kept in the loop! :) Talrias (t | e | c) 19:01, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Secondly, it has been almost a year since the last elections, and there has been plenty of community discussion about what was good and bad about the procedure, and action has been taken on this by the community (for example, the deletion of the endorsements/disendorsements page).

The deletion of the endorsements/disendorsements page is a fine concept, but only addresses some of the problems. One problem is best highlighted, in my view, by the non-election of JamesF, despite being to my knowledge universally acknowledged as an excellent arbitrator, tending to the thoughtful and helpful middle ground on matters of importance, and hard working. The reason for him not being elected was not, as far as I can see, any dissatisfaction with his work in the arbcom, but rather a lack of political fame due in part to his quiet way of getting the job done in arbcom while (mostly, and perhaps unfortunately) giving up most editing.

Arbcom is a judicial position, not a popularity contest, and so elections are only a very rough stab at trying to get the right qualities and broad community support. Useful, of course, but by no means dispositive. --Jimbo Wales 12:51, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

makeing policy based on single cases is a really really bad idea.Geni 13:04, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, of course. But on the other hand, we've only ever had one case of an ArbCom election, and it went rather poorly in some ways, and I see no reason not to strive for a sensible improvement promptly. :-) --Jimbo Wales 17:34, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

You're right that good candidates who aren't as prominent as others are less likely to become elected, but the counter-argument is easily made that selection could miss plenty of candidates who would be equally as good, and possibly better, who you haven't heard of. A solution to both of these problems would be to encourage people to put their names forward but not have a seat limit so preventing tactical voting. Talrias (t | e | c) 17:41, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Thirdly, you've been deathly quiet. These are probably the most important positions in the Misplaced Pages community and the process deserves to be discussed openly. Yet all we've seen are some brief thoughts! You haven't responded to other suggestions or to criticism of his thinking.

I apologize for that. My period of extensive travel is finished as of this Saturday and I intend to spend 2 months simply working.--Jimbo Wales 12:51, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

That's good news. I hope you understand why I have made this comment. Talrias (t | e | c) 17:41, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Come on Jimbo, sort it out! It's been almost a year since the last elections, there has been plenty of discussion from the community (including the current arbitrators) on reform of the system, but all we've heard from you is a "current line of thinking". Yes, we know you have other things to do, such as the incredibly important role of getting funding. However, the encyclopaedia project relies on its community to exist and we have to get this right. Please join in the discussion and make your thoughts clear.

Talrias (t | e | c) 18:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers! Oh and for the record, there has been quite some discussion about this at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2005/Straw_poll. Radiant_>|< 18:24, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Small note of thanks

I know this may not be as important as ArbCom elections or other pressing matters at hand, but thank you for your input over at Wikibooks. I am sorry to have missed you over there, but look forward to helping keep WB serious. Now if we could just get some of those policies passed we could move ahead. I have started a list of missing policies that you might want to have a look at. (It's on my Wikibooks user page, and not nearly complete). Thanks again. --LV 19:15, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Classic Rock

Hello. I was wondering if you would like to participate in my classic rock survey. I'm trying to find the most like classic rock song. There is more information on my user page. If you participate people would actually really want to be apart of it. Thanks a lot! RENTASTRAWBERRY röck 02:45, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Just letting you know

I'm one of your hard workin' admins. Just letting you know that both Essjay and User:Doc_glasgow left us today...2 very helpful admins. Doc in particular was a good vandalism stopped. Doc makes some good points on his userpage...just thought you'd like to know. We have to find a better way to stop vandalism. --Woohookitty 12:18, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

It's true that many Wikipedians don't stick around. There's a frustration factor that easily breaks many people here, it seems. But the sources of the frustration vary so much, and sometimes they contradict, so if you fixed one source you'd create another (to compare here, I fight vandalism quite a bit, but it is a very minimal annoyance for me, not something I would ever consider leaving over—but there are other things that make me truly furious, which others passionately support, and would leave if they were ever changed)...I've come to feel like the tendency of Wikipedians to come and go is not due to any big error we have as a project, but simply due to the temperaments of the people we tend to attract (magnified by the decreased emphathy and effective communication that comes with the Internet), and the high level of frustration that is, for most people, naturally going to come with intense involvement in something like this. In practical terms, I'm not really sure we could do anything to make it better. I can think of minor things that could possibly improve the situation, but nothing fundamental. Regardless, we keep thriving even though people are always leaving, so it shouldn't concern us too much. I remember last December when I came very close to leaving, I think I even announced it on my user page...and another time a few months later I did something similar...but for me, it just didn't stick. I never really even decreased my rate of editing, much less left the project. And after all that terrible stuff, I feel like I've kind of crossed some barrier of frustration where my negative frustration has transformed and given me a renewed energy for the project, and become almost constructive and helpful for me, and I haven't thought about leaving in a long time. Everyking 12:57, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Cabal ?

I didn't believe in such a stupid thing. Then I witnessed a VfA being closed out early after Brian asked Raul to personally take charge of Hamster's nomination. At first I thought it a joke but no, Hamster was plucked out early in a marginal election that could have gone either way if left for the required time. I've been totally disillusioned by the blatant and seemingly open and prejudicial influence with this promotion. Hamster may indeed be well qualified to be an admin, that's not the point. It's the discussion between Brian and Raul with Brian asking Raul to "personally" deal with the nomination and Raul gleefully responding "I did it (I'll leave out the smiley)" that I don't understand. The nomination was pulled early and before others had a chance to Oppose. That stinks of cabal. If you're allowed to read this then take a peek. I deliberately left out the diffs so that you can go through what we all have to do.
I also realize that I will be Persona non grata after this posting and with all my heart I wish that it wouldn't be so but, realistically I know that I will be marginalized after this; the price I pay for this expression. I'm not a wonderful contributor anyway so no great loss to the project, just a disillusioned one. (Heidi and Joe) -- hydnjo talk 02:32, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship#Hamster_Sandwich_RFA. If you have good reason to think the promotion was unfair, please post there.-gadfium 03:32, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

hydnjo - regardless of this posting I think you are (collectively) a great editor. Thanks for your contributions and for speaking your mind(s). Cheers, -Willmcw 04:20, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations

What you have made here is great. That some of human knowledge thing occured to me before i found out about that qoute. I atribute it 49% to google, 50% to wikipedia and its sister projects. About a third of googles share of that is because it auto corrects spellings on searches so lots of people use it to search wiki.Dolive21 22:36, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Semi-protection taken off your page

Just letting you know there is an important discussion ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:Semi-protection_policy, that you are invited to. It is clearly a major change in the way Misplaced Pages operates, so while you are not obligated to voice your opinion, it certainly would be helpful. Also, any other developers reading Jimbo's page are extremely encouraged to join the discussion. --kizzle 01:51, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I saw that!

That was nice how you editted your own page . Ha ha! Poor Larry Sanger. εγκυκλοπαίδεια* (talk) 22:40, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

It is a minor point, but important to get the history right.--Jimbo Wales 22:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

• That was somewhat cruel... Shoudn't Larry get at least some credit..?-MegamanZero 0:59 2,December 2005 (UTC)

• • Of course! He deserves a lot of credit. Simply point out that he did not "set up" the site is in no way intended to take away from his legitimate contributions. He was, like many many many other people, very important to the early days of Misplaced Pages.--Jimbo Wales 00:09, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Very understandle, see you in January at the Tampa meetup! If it is true that you live in St. Pete, I am minutes away. Don't want to sound weird, but that is the truth. εγκυκλοπαίδεια* (talk) 22:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Jimmy_Wales#Larry_Sanger_and_the_creation_of_Wikipedia. — David Remahl 00:46, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Seigenthaler Sr. issue

Perhaps it's a good idea for the Wikimedia Foundation to make a public statement regarding the USA Today article. Not an apology, mind you, but rather a statement of regret. Also, this could be used to publicise the new article validation tools and the so-called Misplaced Pages 1.0 we are working towards. The statement should state that except for featured articles, no article on wikipedia has really been vetted for authenticity, but that we're working on changing this. I feel this would go a long way to silencing many of Misplaced Pages's critics. Jacoplane 23:30, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll be going on CNN on Monday to talk about it. --Jimbo Wales 00:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey Jimbo, what do you think about Talk:John_Seigenthaler_Sr.#Undeletion? Melchoir 02:16, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! Melchoir 18:06, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

• I see you are a extremely busy person Mr. Jimbo. My apologies for my post above, I see why you hadn't time to do what I requested. Anyway, good luck. -MegamanZero 8:10 1,December 2005 (UTC)

Is it possible for us to have the transcript of this? Will this be on CNN international or CNN.com ? --Cool Cat 20:23, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Me again on arbcom ;)

Hey Jimbo,

I've added my own thoughts on how it should be done to the straw poll, and I've asked you a couple of questions on the talk page. Cheers, Talrias (t | e | c) 12:34, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom

Hi

I hate to disturb you, but I really would like clarification of "Hybrid approach: Jimbo can put forward candidates for community approval, 50% majority is enough. And also the community can put forward candidates for Jimbo's approval, with the same 50% majority being enough."

Do you mean that you will only consider approving community-proposed candidates if they have gained 50% approval in a poll to select them? If so, how would this poll work? Would there be a single poll, covering both your candidates and the community's? No hurry answering, as I'll be leaving for the weekend in a few minutes. Thanks for reading this. Filiocht | The kettle's on 15:08, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

FYI

Essjay's departure from the project in my view requires your interference. After all he was admited in medcom showing he is fair and he was an administrator showing he is more than trusted. Please assist us in our quest to guide him to his senses. I do not believe he is expendable and I feel you would agree.

Thats all I got for now.--Cool Cat 20:21, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

• I concur. Voyager640 07:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• I agree, although I didn't know him that well. — Rickyrab | Talk 01:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank You, Jimmy

I am crazy about encyclopedias and read them almost exclusively. I only discovered Misplaced Pages the past summer. If I had known about it earlier I would have been here earlier. So, since its the holidays coming up, I thought I would write you a thank you note for the wonderful, exciting gift you have given to me this year. Misplaced Pages. Its always nice when you get exactly what you want. So from my heart, Jimmy Wales, all the best to you and your loved ones, I wish you all happy holidays and that we all get exactly what we deserve in the new year. See you 'round the wiki! Hamster Sandwich 17:05, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Your very own Magic: The Gathering card

Hello Mr. Wales. I don't know if you've ever played, but I hope you will find your very own collectible card amusing all the same. If not, I hope someone reading this will find it funny. Thanks for this great encyclopedia. (Feedback from any user appreciated!) --JiFish(/_Contrib) 22:35, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

• I remember this card! I heard they banned it from tournaments for its overwhelming destrctive capabilities and cheapness. Furthurmore, its very hard to find- they can only be found in MTG: Misplaced Pages Edition booster packs, which don't exist. -MegamanZero 1:38 4,December 2005 (UTC)

• Ah! Excellent! --Topaz 23:23, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

• Ahh...another cheap legend, like Isamura!Voice of All 05:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Problem with Editing Expired Versions of Current Pages

When I log in, I find a problem with expired versions of current pages. If a page gets vandalized, and I try to revert, when I go to the old version, the current version still appears in the edit blank! But this doesn't happen when I'm not logged in! What's going on? — Rickyrab | Talk 00:47, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I found the problem. I use a Nostalgia style interface. Sometime in the past few weeks, the "Edit this page" link somehow dropped the ability to display the oldid number in the URL on old edits in the Nostalgia style of interface. I don't know how it came about, but it DID, and THAT change ought to be reverted. — Rickyrab | Talk 01:00, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Appeal of Arbcom case

Hello. I'm appealing for your intervention and input into an arbcom case here. I feel very strongly that this case has been handled inappropriately from the beginning, and that the main Arbcom participants are not reviewing this case in an impartial or balanced manner. This case originally began at my request when I filed Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Willmcw and SlimVirgin. Several days later, Willmcw - one of the users I named in my case - responded by filing a second case against me Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Rangerdude. The Arbcom originally voted to accept my case and merge Willmcw's complaints into it, but when Fred Bauder opened the case he did the exact opposite. Ever since then Fred's attention has been almost entirely on Willmcw's complaints against me. Fred is the only Arbcom member who has put forth voting principles at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Rangerdude/Proposed_decision and as a result virtually none of the items in my original complaint are even being considered except for a single minor warning against Willmcw, and nothing from the dispute with SlimVirgin is being considered. I've raised a few of Willmcw's policy violations on the workshop and talk pages and Fred seems to agree that they happened, yet he won't consider them in the formal part of the case and words the current findings on Willmcw in ways that intentionally downplay their severity. Meanwhile, Fred has accomodated nearly all of Willmcw's accusations against me and is currently proposing a one year probation against me for charges that neither transparent nor properly evidenced with diffs.

In addition to my concern that this case has been handled unfairly from my own perspective, I am very concerned about the precedent it may be setting and the incidents it is ignoring. One of the things Willmcw did that caused me to request this case is using white supremacist and other bigotted sources and terminology to insert guilt-by-association smears and other POV attacks on conservative and libertarian groups in political articles (see ). He has also behaved in an extremely harassing manner toward me and has wikistalked my edits since the day I signed up here, largely based on his now-admitted mistaken identification of another anon IP user with me last December (see ). Both of these charges have been documented and discussed thoroughly, yet they've been virtually ignored and excluded from the case by Fred Bauder. Since Fred is the only one proposing votes on this case the other Arbcom members are simply voting on whatever he puts up there and so far none of the major issues in my original case have even been addressed. Your help, advice, or impartial review of this case would be much appreciated. Rangerdude 20:57, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Proposal to fix Wikipedias most serious issues

Jimbo, I have come to conclusion that Misplaced Pages has a serious quality problem as you know, as I devoted Wikipedian I have been trying to improve the most important topics to featured article standard since I got here a year ago. The process is slow, and the truth is that there are not enough devoted Wikipedians who are actually working to get articles to a state in which they can be used as sources of research and valuable information. The Wikimedia foundation often do fund raises to raise money for new servers and equipment to help run Misplaced Pages, but with the new recent image server installed, and most of Misplaced Pages's speed problems solved, there are better uses of the profit made from these donations.

I propose a system where the Wikimedia foundation pays journalists, copy-editors and writers to work for Misplaced Pages for a pay per article. This would ensure that we have hundreds of articles becoming featured every month, not 30 or 40. What the encyclopedia really needs at the moment is lots of motivation, because at the moment the devoted Wikipedians are wasting their times wikifying articles or fixing disambiguation links. By doing this, not only would you fix the article quality issue, but also the references/verifiable sources issuse, and the Misplaced Pages reputation issue. Most recently the site has been attacked dozens of times by magazines, newspaper articles and journalists who are unhappy about the way Misplaced Pages is run, the way it works, and the quality and uses of it.

Misplaced Pages doesn't need time to make every article great, it needs the motivation to do so.

I hope you consider what I've said, thanks for reading!

— Wackymacs 07:07, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

The problem is this idea of paying people undermines the volunteer basis of the whole thing. And I think the motivation is there. I'm not convinced you'd get substantially more work out of people for a salary, and you risk turning off everybody who's not getting paid. The press criticism ought to just be ignored. It's simply foolish, or possibly malicious. Our system works, and it works brilliantly, as anybody can see by looking at the product. I think the encyclopedia is much better than it was a year ago—maybe twice as good, quite truthfully. And a year is actually not very long—look forward to a day five or ten years down the road. Moreover, the growth accelerates with fame. Misplaced Pages has its problems, but they aren't fundamental ones that need to be fixed with a fundamental change in the system—this is going after the wrong problem with the wrong solution. What we are doing in this respect is working. Everyking 08:20, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Ummm...

... is ZDNet correct? Are you planning on stopping anons from creating new articles? If so, I'm not against it, though:

1. Were you planning on telling us somewhere?!
2. What the reasoning behind this? The number of new users is going to shoot up, and we won't be able to track them by IP addresses anymore. After all, it's trivial to create a new account - as I'm fairly sure you know as I suspect you may have a sockpuppet.

If the news report is wrong, well, my apologies! And please be aware that even if it's correct, I'm not attacking you. It must have been a tough week :(

Ta bu shi da yu 13:32, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

You can read about it here: post on wikien-l

I agree. This dude should interact with his community a lot more. Wiki is becoming an institution, with an over-sized admin section that enforce the Wiki policy to the letter. In fact, why not reform the Wiki policy to a more liberal one? I'm tired of these forum fascists! A bit off-topic, but it spared me from making a new topic. --Anittas 13:48, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I spend all day every day interacting with the community. :-) --Jimbo Wales 14:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)