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Linguist List link

Hello there buddy. Why do you want that Linguist list link in there? The links are dead, they don't work. I'm reasonable, I'll listen.Dave (talk) 00:25, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

The link does work. It takes you to a page where you can choose a variety of different family tree graphics (depending on the author of the classification). It's a very useful link. I've tested that link a dozen times and it always works. Do you have Java enabled on your computer? That may be why the link doesn't work for you. (Taivo (talk) 00:29, 15 December 2009 (UTC))

Hello Taivo, you seem to be interested in the Linguist List Link site itself rather than the subpage actually addressed. That seems to work OK and seems to belong there. What I am doing is moving these link formats to the recommended Misplaced Pages "cite" templates, which provide a uniform look and allow the user enough information so he can see what it is without having to click on every link. One relies on the information in the template rather than on the editor's description, which is apt to be opinionated and often is wrong. Here it is wrong. The subpage actually linked gives no description. Don't you think it would be a better idea to link your preferred site rather than this subpage? Then the user can look up any IE language. Right now I'm called away. In a few moments I will set up a "cite web" to the LL search site and you can take a look. If you don't want to use it then please set the link up in "cite template format" without the incorrect summary. Oh, I could not help noticing the "edit war" comments on your discussion site. I find that most "edit wars" can be avoided by discussion, but it's you call there.Dave (talk) 00:54, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a programming type, so my references and links look more like a written paper than the techno stuff you were describing. I'll look to see what you're talking about. And concerning discussions, it takes two to discuss. Edit wars often happen when only one party is talking and the other party is not. (Taivo (talk) 05:47, 15 December 2009 (UTC))

The link wasn't pointing to the right place. I fixed it so that it points to the portal for the family trees. (Taivo (talk) 05:52, 15 December 2009 (UTC))

Thanks

I appreciate your recent edits Taivo and I'm glad we can always work together towards conciliation. Thankyou. 14:29, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Why do you keep changing your mind Taivo? Izzedine 15:06, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

I haven't changed my mind. I have always opposed the addition of "Ancient Iraq" in the article on Mesopotamia. But when it was just you and me discussing, then in the absence of consensus against it, I let it ride. Now there is a clear consensus against it. (Taivo (talk) 15:11, 25 December 2009 (UTC))

Do you think we can find some conciliation? Izzedine 15:21, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The generally accepted boundaries of Mesopotamia are not the same as the boundaries of modern Iraq, so the use of the term "Ancient Iraq" does not equal "Mesopotamia" and they are not synonyms. Write a separate article on Ancient Iraq if you see fit, but it's not the same as Mesopotamia (which includes several sites in Syria and Turkey). No one doubts that "Ancient Iraq" is a valid title for a book or Misplaced Pages article. But Mesopotamia is larger than Iraq. The two are not equal, so they are not synonyms. (Taivo (talk) 15:26, 25 December 2009 (UTC))

While I agree with you, there are only a couple of noted Mesopotamian sites outside Iraq's actual borders, and not very far outside too. It's worth remembering that there were Ancient Greek sites all over the southern Balkans and Anatolia, there were Ancient Egyptian sites in Sudan, Libya and up the levant coast. Another fact to be considered is that *there are* etymologies tracing the name "Iraq" to the Akkadian name for Uruk - this is verifiable, and may mean the name "Iraq" is far older than "Mesopotamia" - more than twice as old in fact. I'm absolutely not at all trying to supplant the established name "Mesopotamia" though, I just want the alternative to be included. Izzedine 16:48, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The etymologies linking "Iraq" to "Uruk" are 100% political crap invented by the cronies of Iraq's former dictator. As such, they are not verifiable by reliable linguists. "Ancient Iraq" is not an alternative for "Mesopotamia". I have posted a request for comment on the history and geography page. Now we just wait and see what the community thinks. (Taivo (talk) 16:53, 25 December 2009 (UTC))

This is demonstrating a strong negative POV Taivo, which is a breach of one of Misplaced Pages's three core policies. What about the rest of what I said too? Misplaced Pages is not a democracy you can't just count hands in the audience Taivo, if things were that way there would be systemic bias everywhere. Izzedine 17:24, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

First, WP:NPOV only applies to the text of the articles. You also have a strong POV. On Talk Pages and during discussions, POV doesn't matter unless it is focused personally, which I have not done (unless you are one of the former dictator's linguistic cronies). The goal is to take all those POVs and determine what is the most NPOV wording in the article. That doesn't always mean "a little for everyone". Second, Misplaced Pages doesn't "count hands", it works on WP:CONSENSUS. That means that the community works not on counting hands in a vote, but on determining what the great (very clear) majority of editors think is best. "Democracy" says that 5 beats 4. "Consensus" says that 8 beats 1, but 5 doesn't beat 4. "Consensus" does not mean that 1 beats 3. If you actually have reliable sources (and you have not yet proven that you do), then you can sway consensus in your favor. It happens all the time here. But you have no real proof yet. You throw out "evidence" that you have not evaluated at all. That's what the other editors do on a regular basis, but you have not apparently learned how to do at this point. (Taivo (talk) 17:36, 25 December 2009 (UTC))

Mentorship Committee

I'm contacting you because your name is listed at Misplaced Pages:Meetup/Utah.

Please consider reviewing my edit at Misplaced Pages:Mentorship#Unintended consequences. In the search for a mentor deemed acceptable by ArbCom, I view this as a useful context for discussing what I have in mind.

There is no obvious congruence between your editing interests and mine, but perhaps the disjunction presents a novel opportunity.

Will you consider looking into whether you might agree to join others in a Mentorship Committee which advises me?

In any case -- even if you are disinclined to pursue the primary thrust of this diff, I wonder if I might be able to tweak your curiosity with an article about 95-year-old Patrick Lennox Tierney? He is a Japanologist academic in the field of art history, an emeritus professor of the University of Utah, a former Curator of Japanese Art at the Utah Museum of Fine Arts, and a former Commissioner of Art and Monuments during the Allied Occupation of Japan (1945-1952). I think this elderly man still lives near the University. Tierney came to my attention because the Japanese government conferred the Order of the Rising Sun, Gold Rays with Neck Ribbon in 2007.

Perhaps the most intriguing aspect of Tierney's life concerns his work for the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers (SCAP), Gen. Douglas MacArthur. Tierney's office was near MacArthur's suite in SCAP headquarters. Tierney was an eyewitness on the day Emperor Hirohito came to offer a formal apology; but when the emperor arrived, MacArthur refused to admit him or acknowledge him. Issues which might have been addressed were allowed to remain open, with consequences which unfolded across the decades which followed. In 2006, Tierney made an effort to explain his understanding of what he had personally observed: "Apology is a very important thing in Japan. With us, we don't apologize unless we get caught with our hand in the cookie jar, but for the Japanese, there is a very strong sense of what an apology means." According to popular historian Herbert Bix in Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan, "MacArthur's truly extraordinary measures to save Hirohito from trial as a war criminal had a lasting and profoundly distorting impact on Japanese understanding of the lost war."

Among a prospective mentor's many burdens, the most difficult would involve (a) helping me discern why or when I should apologize or (b) helping me to explain why or when I will not apologize in a wiki-context. --Tenmei (talk) 02:27, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

I would be willing to participate in a mentorship committee if ArbCom deems me acceptable. I would not be willing to be a solo mentor, but as part of a committee I would be willing. While I am sometimes passionate about the subject matter I follow, I do feel that I know the difference between personal attack and polite disagreement. I read the notice about getting a committee and, if I read correctly, John Carter has volunteered to be a part. He is a very good editor and will be a good member of the mentorship committee. (Taivo (talk) 04:07, 26 December 2009 (UTC))