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Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator or clerk, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behaviour during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.

Questions to frame the proposed decision

I'd like to suggest some questions that I feel would help frame the proposed decision. alanyst 22:50, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Effect of the dispute on articles

Note: To avoid the problem of the committee ruling on content, the first three questions are perhaps best addressed by noting whether there has been a consensus of uninvolved editors, either generally stated or in the context of specific articles or edits, regarding compliance with the content policies in question.

Compared to the state of the topic area prior to the dispute, what effect has the dispute had on:

1. the articles' compliance with WP:BLP?
2. the articles' compliance with WP:RS, WP:V, and WP:NOTABLE?
3. the articles' compliance with WP:NPOV?
4. the participation by non-parties in editing articles in the topic area?

Effect of the dispute on the community

1. How have disputants properly used the community's time and attention to resolve disputes?
2. How have disputants misused the community's time and attention regarding the dispute?
3. Has the dispute metastasized into other areas of the encyclopedia or spawned disputes between otherwise uninvolved editors?

Individual editor behavior

1. What specific patterns of behavior of each of the parties have been constructive and ought to be encouraged?
2. What specific patterns of behavior of each of the parties have tended to inflame, prolong, revive, confuse, or unduly personalize the dispute?
3. Which of the parties have (not) exhibited efforts to collaborate, understand opponents' concerns, make reasonable concessions, and seek consensus?
4. Which of the parties have (not) endeavored to comply with content policies WP:BLP, WP:NPOV, WP:RS, WP:V, and WP:NOTABLE?
5. Which of the parties have (not) ignored or dismissed constructive feedback?

Possible remedies

1. How might it benefit (harm) the topic area to have editors sympathetic (antagonistic) to the Mises faction editing it?
2. Which of the parties have been more (less) disruptive than constructive in the topic area? in the project generally?
3. Going forward, which of the parties are (un)likely to be able to collaborate in good faith with their opponents within the topic area? in unrelated areas?

I have my own views on each of these questions but I will not share them until the case is closed, in order not to interfere with the committee's independent deliberations. alanyst 22:50, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Dispute continues

I realize that technical issues and other demands on the Committee, especially the drafting arbitrators, have made for very excusable delays in the posting of the proposed decision. I thought I'd point out, in case it has not been noticed by the Committee, that the core parties (Carolmooredc, Srich32977, Steeletrap, SPECIFICO, and Binksternet) have continued the dispute in the topic area since this proceeding began and, indeed, since the evidence and workshop phases ended. (I can provide a list of pages showing the recent interactions upon request.) The longer this goes the greater the chance, I fear, that it may metastasize into unrelated areas and draw other editors into the dispute, complicating the work of the Committee. Perhaps a temporary injunction is in order to restrict all parties named above from editing in the topic area or interacting with or commenting on each other until this case concludes. alanyst 15:36, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree with this proposal. I voluntarily agree to refrain from editing LvMI pages provided that the other parties named above do as well. Steeletrap (talk) 15:43, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Alanyst is quite correct. The following is a set of diffs I drafted anticipating a need to post on the WP:AN3:

This is regarding edits, reverts, tagging, and detagging of Thomas DiLorenzo taking place 17/18 March. This article is subject to Talk:Austrian economics/General sanctions. The involved editors (User:Steeletrap, User:SPECIFICO, User:Carolmooredc, and myself included), have been notified of the sanctions. The following are the pertinent diffs:

1. 1 December: User:Steeletrap makes a change to use the word "examined" in a sentence.
2. 17 March: Steeletrap changes "examined" to "defended". No edit summary is done.
3. 17 March: S.Rich restores to read "examined criticism of". Edit summary given to justify change as using a neutral term.
4. 17 March: Specifico restores "defended".
5. 18 March: Steeletrap changes "defended" to "endorsed".
6. 18 March: S.Rich tags sentence as SYNTH. A BRD has been opened
7. 18 March: Steeletrap removes SYNTH tag.
8. 18 March: S.Rich restores SYNTH tag. Edit summary points out BRD is underway.
9. 18 March: Steeletrap removes SYNTH tag. Edit summary says "Please follow BRD."
10. 18 March: Carolmooredc restores SYNTH tag.

In the meantime, an article talk page section on the particular edits has been opened. See: Talk:Thomas_DiLorenzo#BRD_on_DiLorenzo_.26_League_of_the_South. Steeletrap and Specifico have not commented so far.

Also, User_talk:Steeletrap#DiLorenzo is opened, requesting Steeletrap to restore the SYNTH tag.

But the prohibition should not be restricted to Ludwig von Mises Institute pages as Steeletrap suggests. Per Alanyst's recommendation, go for the whole gamut. – S. Rich (talk) 15:54, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

On February 10th under Workshop/Proposed temporary injunctions I recommended/asked for injunctions on editing in Austrian economics and libertarian biographies areas and still support that. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 16:05, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Bink and SPECIFICO have voluntarily stayed out of these recent squabbles. I would welcome the same from Srich32977, Carolmooredc, and Steeletrap so that Admins, Arbcom and editors do not feel it necessary to keep watching these articles. I would hope that Admins would now not hesitate to hand out blocks under current Community Sanctions if voluntarism fails. SPECIFICO talk 16:08, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Alright. I agree not to post on LvMI/libertarian/Austrian related pages prior to the Commitee's decision. I encourage other users to do the same. Steeletrap (talk) 16:38, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

The responses here seem to typify the battleground personality trait of at least some of the case participants. It doesn't need the agreement of everyone else for any one person to stop meddling with these articles: you are all responsible for what you do and should not impose any conditional requirements. I did this months ago in this very subject area and, really, it is shocking that this sort of behaviour is still going on, and it is even worse that Carolmooredc (and perhaps others) even recognised the issues by making earlier proposals but then continued to act out the same behavioural problems. - Sitush (talk) 17:47, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

• (edit conflict)I had been contemplating the possibility of doling out temporary topic bans pending the arbcom decision (under the community sanctions) and I'd definitely welcome a voluntary edit restriction. I would like to see firm commitments from CarolMooreDC, SPECIFICO, SRich, and Steeletrap, along the lines of "I agree not to edit articles related to Austrian economics, or to interact with other parties in the AE arbitration case until the arbitration committee reaches a decision." ~Adjwilley (talk) 17:57, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

• I agree. My agreement includes the IBAN, AE, LvMI, & libertarian topics. – S. Rich (talk) 18:16, 19 March 2014 (UTC)18:21, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
• I agree not to edit Austrian economics/LvMI/libertarian pages, unconditionally, prior to the decision of the committee. Steeletrap (talk) 18:18, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

I endorse the statement of @Sitush:. Admins are empowered to issue bans under existing Community Sanctions and each editor is responsible for behaving in accordance with WP norms and policies. I've stated previously that if Admins had enforced the Community Sanctions enacted last year we could have saved much editor, Admin, and Arbcom time and attention and would not find ourselves here today. SPECIFICO talk 18:59, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

• First, considering mostly BLPs and one bio are the subject of the probelms, and editors kept editing against BLP policy, you'll have to excuse a couple of us from having to keep editing to deal with continuing violations, as well as all the old unresolved ones. I'm quite happy not to edit for now. SPECIFICO's response seems ambiguous and I hope he is agreeing as well. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 20:07, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

• No, Carolmooredc, you don't have to do anything with the alleged BLP issues and nor should you speak for anyone else ("a couple of us"). It is entirely within your hands to leave these things well alone and let others deal with them. You just seem to choose not to do so because you are inherently a combative contributor. You could have walked away from this entire farrago many months ago had you chosen, and indeed I think you've mentioned some relief about possibly being able to do that at various times but instead you've stuck around and become perhaps the central character in it. Sure, WP:BLP is important but it is not your sole responsibility.

That said, if everyone has now stopped being little kids in a playground fight then great. - Sitush (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

So far SRich is the only one who has agreed to everything. Steeletrap is close behind (agreed to everything but the voluntary IBAN). Carolmooredc said she's happy not to edit for now, but hasn't given a commitment that I can see. SPECIFICO? ~Adjwilley (talk) 23:39, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

If the other editors have reservations, perhaps the exceptions allowed to IBANs & TBANs will assuage their concerns. But I (and other observers, I'm sure) encourage Specifico, Carolmooredc, and Steeletrap to accept "everything" as I have. – S. Rich (talk) 05:22, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I had forgotten to mention the exceptions, but certainly intended for them to apply here. ~Adjwilley (talk) 05:35, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree with voluntarily ceasing to edit articles and talk pages. I disagree with an Iban. People should have to right to, e.g., defend themselves against charges leveled by another user, even though that technically constitutes 'interaction.' Steeletrap (talk) 11:35, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd encourage you to rethink and accept the WP:IBAN. By now, Carolmooredc has so thoroughly shredded her WP credibility that whatever her latest forum-shopped charge-du-jour against you is, it's not going to be accepted widely considering its source, and each attack becomes one more layer in her well-documented pattern of Wiki abuse -- WP:HARASS, WP:BATTLE, WP:OWN, etc., all ripe and ready for WP:ANI at the time of your choosing. She can't help it (although I sincerely hope the arbs will, recognizing her pattern, STRONGLY HELP her help it). She is now at the point where she can no longer pour enough sugar to fully sugar over her wiki-behavior problems, and I think she knows it. Goodwinsands (talk) 13:32, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

This is partially my fault for such a slow slog to a proposed decision (sorry again). But so many people continuing behavior that led to an ArbCom case during the ArbCom case is infinitely depressing. Remember that any uninvolved admin can act now under the existing community discretionary sanctions. The fact that there is an active ArbCom case doesn't alter that, and no uninvolved admin should be concerned that their reasonable good-faith attempt to impose some sort of order, whether it is a topic ban, or an IBAN, or both, widely applied or narrowly targetted - just until the case is resolved - will be considered out of process or unfairly affect the case. I was tempted to do it myself, but since I'm writing/voting on the case, that would open up a can of worms. Any particular editor being subject to any DS for the rest of the case will not be interpreted as evidence of guilt or innocence. I would strongly urge any editor affected by any community DS not to appeal to WP:AE, but just wait for the conclusion of the case. I am now making progress again, really.

Also, @Goodwinsands: shut up, or I will block you indefinitely, can of worms or not. Resurrecting an account after a 2 year hiatus solely to attack another editor is not acceptable. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:38, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm a bit cynical about this process. If the Arbcom folks needed more time, they should have set a later date to begin with. Changing the date multiple times with no notice is really not the way to go about it. While continuing to squabble over the pages in question with an open Arbcom case was very poor judgment on our part, it wouldn't have happened (or at least, wouldn't have happened to nearly the same extent) if the process was resolved when the committee said it would be. Also: I don't see why Goodwinsands motives and whether he bears a grudge against Carol are relevant; what's relevant is whether his allegations about Carol's conduct are right or wrong. (same with my critical comment here: it should be completely irrelevant as to whether I'm guilty of misconduct on the Austrian economics issue.)

That said, I agree with you that we should stop editing these pages and interacting with each other. That was inappropriate to say the least. Hence I previously agreed to not edit Austrian/libertarian/LvMI pages, and now agree to the Iban User:Adjwilley proposed. Steeletrap (talk) 14:58, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

"I'm quite happy not to edit for now." defined: "For now" means during the Arbitration, and to be more specific on articles that have Austrian economics templates on them ; obviously afterward if I am topic banned. And I certainly am all for an IBAN if it means SPECIFICO and STEELETRAP will stop wikihounding me outside the topic area. As for why the dispute continues, a number of individuals in evidence expressed a most definitive opinion on that and it was not that it was all Carolmooredc's fault. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 01:19, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Huh? I don't think anyone has said that anything in this case is all your fault, Carol. I certainly haven't, and I'm not even sure that "fault" is a choice of word anyway. There's no need to create yet another sideshow with sweeping generalisations. And that's me done here, you'll doubtless be pleased to read: it appears that a temporary peace, of a sort, has broken out. - Sitush (talk) 02:10, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Carolmooredc, for the clarification. That's 3 of 4. I'll keep an eye out for Specifico, though he hasn't edited much recently, and I don't expect he'll cause any problems by himself. (I haven't included Binksternet in the count because I haven't seen him involved in any of the recent disputes, and I don't expect he'll be doing much on the AE front in the next few weeks either.) ~Adjwilley (talk) 02:29, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

I actually added above the following that I will not edit: , AKA broadly construed; A search indicates there probably at least 400 articles in that category. However, not all of them rate Austrian Economics Sanctions" templates.

Now I usually don't edit those myself, even when I see others have been busy at it, unless there is some annoying BLP/bio problem. However, I know that throughout his time at Misplaced Pages SPECIFICO has been busy purging such articles of even well-sourced material mentioning Austrian economics and various of its theorists. And of course he has and will continue to have conflicts with others who object to it, a couple of whom got banned after several past run-ins with him on ANI. So any decision regarding parties to this arbitration should specify any content regarding Austrian economics or its adherents, whether or not the article is tagged as such. @Floquenbeam:

In the interim I'll assume we all, including SPECIFICO, is agreeing to that. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 13:30, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

By questioning me specifically here, I guess SPECIFICO isn't going by the voluntary IBAN. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 15:14, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

That seems to relate to non-Austrian Economnics stuff. I thought that voluntary IBAN only extended to that topic area.. - Sitush (talk) 15:26, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Ah, are you referring to "or to interact with other parties in the AE arbitration case"? Kind of got lost in the haze of qualifying statements. - Sitush (talk) 15:28, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

I have requested an IBAN on all interaction with SPECIFICO so obviously have been thinking in those terms, though I think Arbitrators could and may impose a complete IBAN on all topics for other parties as well. If I do not get an IBAN on all topics, and there is continued following of and harassing of me by SPECIFICO (and/or Steeletrap), I will request one where ever is best, ANI or regarding this Arbitration. Only since the voluntary IBAN started have I dared to start editing again in articles of interest to me. I see both Steeletrap and SPECIFICO followed me to an article they had not edited before, though they did not address me or my edits. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 15:52, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Since I've been called out, I'm entitled to respond. I have edited Bill Clinton-related pages such as Bill Clinton, Defense of Marriage Act, and Clinton's section on LGBT rights in the United States, repeatedly, for nearly a year. It is absurd to suggest that I was "following Carol" to the page when I am a longstanding contributor to Clinton-related pages and made no edits that conflicted with hers. I think Carol went to the page in response to me, since I was editing an accompanying Clinton page a day before. She has no prior history of editing Clinton pages except -- back in August, in response to my expression of support for some of Clinton's achievements -- adding sensationalist and BLP-violating characterizations of dismissed sexual harassment/assault allegations. It is possible I followed SPECIFICO to the page (I don't recall this, but I do think he has a keen eye for detecting and rectifying vandalism and BLP-violating content) but the IBAN I agree to doesn't apply to him because our relationship is fine.

Carol has broken the IBAN through her above criticism of me. SPECIFICO never agreed to it (it was not a creation of the committee, but a proposal by Adjwilley). Steeletrap (talk) 16:50, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Point of information - The edit I made on the Clinton article was to remove text that predated Caorlmooredc's only edit in that article. I hope this will put the matter to rest. SPECIFICO talk 17:23, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Steeletrap: I doubt IBAN applies here. SPECIFICO: Both of you editing same article - which neither had edited before - within 24 hours of my doing so, if practised repeatedly, easily could be seen as a way of harassing an editor without technically violating an IBAN. So I'm just making that point clear the first time it happens as opposed to waiting til the 5th or 6th time. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 17:42, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

There has been a blatant violation of our agreement by Srich. Earlier in this thread he stated that "My agreement includes the IBAN, AE, LvMI, & libertarian topics", yet edited the Ludwig von Mises article today. Steeletrap (talk) 17:47, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Regrettably Specifico has not signed on to the voluntary TBAN. If he had, he would not have edited the article, and might have brought up the topic on the talkpage. In any event, I've opened Talk:Ludwig_von_Mises_Institute#Recent_edits on the particular edits, so if anyone thinks my edit is improper, they should please feel free to discuss at that point. – S. Rich (talk) 18:03, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Since all the other parties to the IBAN have repeatedly broken it, I no longer feel obligated to abide by it. Srich's reversion of my edit to an economics page was the last straw. (yesterday, he edited the page of Ludwig von Mises Institute.) Steeletrap (talk) 04:52, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Good. Maybe a renewal of contentious editing will prompt the drafting arbitrator to post a decision (or proposed decision). – S. Rich (talk) 04:55, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm certainly not going to edit the Mises/libertarian-related pages, even though you and Carol continue to do so. And I have no idea why you'd hope for "contentious editing." An IBAN, however, makes no logical sense when only one party abides by it. Since you both broke your word, I am no longer bound by the IBAN. Steeletrap (talk) 05:07, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

No. I don't hope for contentious editing. I hope the arbitrators can craft a decision that will end the contentious editing. I said "Good" because you no longer feel obligated to abide by an IBAN. We (i.e, all of us) can certainly interact civilly even if there are disagreements about content. – S. Rich (talk) 16:24, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Tick, Tock

Instead of brown-nosing "the Committee", I'm going to say what everyone's thinking: this process is not credible. The massive delays and the Committee's total disregard for its (self-imposed) deadlines, fairly or not, make its members look lazy and unconcerned with stopping alleged violations of policy. The Committee's vague assurances that "progress" is being made actually undermine its credibility, because it (glaringly) fails to specify what "progress" means (the repeated apologies for the supposedly justified delays also evince a sense of personal guilt characteristic of an individual making a 'dog ate my homework' type excuse.) That the Gun Control Arbitration also features extravagant delays along with vague excuses and assurances that 'progress is being made' provide more reason for cynicism.

All of that being said, I have to ask the Committee-members: What specifically have you been up to for the past month? And, why must it be kept more secretive than the Manhattan Project was?

I understand that resolving this issue would take several hours. But if you aren't the sort of people who over the course of two months are able to take an afternoon or two off (and the vast, vast majority of Misplaced Pages editors are those sorts), this isn't a role you should volunteer for. Either apologize for taking on a commitment you don't have time for and delegate it to other users, or (if laziness rather than necessity is driving the delay) quit being couch potatoes and get this done by the end of the week. Steeletrap (talk) 05:40, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

@Steeletrap: I must say, in defense of the arbitrators, that this delay is extremely unusual. In my time as clerk, this is the first time I see this. → Call me Hahc21 06:04, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I followed the Tea Party Case last year which opened 5 March and was closed 6 September. Several arbitrators recognized that the handling of that case wasn't optimal so hopefully both this case and the gun control case will be soundly rounded up before summer starts. Regards, Iselilja (talk) 08:18, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I do feel we have to cut volunteers slack, especially since I note most of them probably keep busy putting out constant but tiring minor fires in their roles as admins. One more argument for the Foundation figuring out a legal way to hire a couple hundred paid part-time admins so that important jobs like this could be taken on by volunteers. Of course, with more admins willing to be tougher, there might not be as much need for as many arbitrations and problems could be solved quicker; and fewer better editors would quite because they get fed up with the antics of disruptive editors. A girl can dream.... Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 14:38, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

That's quite a shift in tone from your complaint about arbitrations going on "forever" on your page. But I can appreciate the strategic insight that makes you say this now.

If you volunteer to do two pretty important things, miss the self-imposed deadlines for getting them done by a month, and provide no clear reason as to why you screwed up, you're being irresponsible. They are volunteers, but they assumed responsibilities that they are unable to live up to.

The sloppy reasoning employed by one member of Arbcom here also makes me doubt whether we will have a just (and frankly, competent) resolution to this problem. One of many anti-Carol editors here (Goodwin) is having all of her/his carefully presented arguments dismissed without consideration by Arbcom because of his alleged motives in making them. That is not cogent reasoning. Goodwin's arguments about her behavior are either correct or incorrect, policy-wise. The fact that the Arbcom fellow (Floquen) has to augment his fallacious ad hominem criticism of Goodwin with over-the-top threats of "indefinite blocks" is also discouraging. Here and elsewhere, you can see that the Commitee wields its power a little too enthusiastically, and demands over-the-top deference and personal respect/admiration rather than mere respect for procedure. Steeletrap (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

'Smatter, you got a hot date? You afraid Misplaced Pages will be finished and written in stone before the case is decided? Is a bomb going to go off if the Committee slows down too much, as in Speed?

Yes, sooner is better than later, but that in itself doesn't justify your claim that the "process is not credible". The process will be credible if it ends in a credible result (not necessarily the result you want, but a result that the general community can accept). So relax, take a chill pill, your attitude is probably part of the reason there's a ArbCom case in the first place. BMK (talk) 17:07, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Status updates here

Could one of the drafting arbitrators (Floquenbeam or Newyorkbrad) please update this section each week, starting now, with an indication of how things are progressing toward a draft decision being posted? Thanks, alanyst 14:22, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I will consult and post an update by the end of the day today. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:35, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

The proposed decision will be posted no later than one week from today, and hopefully much sooner. Newyorkbrad (talk) 15:52, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposed decision imminent

I will be posting the proposed decision within the next 48 hours. Further posts to this or the other case pages, until it is posted, are unlikely to be helpful. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:12, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Still having to deal with blanking and other tag-team nonsense

In case they missed it, I want to bring this set of WP:ANI issues, in line with the evidence I submitted, to the Committee's attention as they consider the decision. EllenCT (talk) 11:22, 13 April 2014 (UTC)