Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:28, 30 November 2014

removing aircrash investigation additions and calling them spam en third class publications

Someone (AndyTheGrump)is accusing me of putting information about aircraft investigations as third class spam mail on wikipedia. This is outrageous and completely ridiculous. I am a aviation specialist, I was general manager of large airports (among others Schiphol International Airport Amsterdam), a professor in economics (graduated Erasmus University, Rotterdam, Netherlands in 1973) and a consultant for many governments world wide (a.o. Netherlands, Indonesia, Chad, Philippines) on issues regarding aviation. I can proof that on every account. The problem with aviation accidents is that every country makes it own report of the accident, many are not in English, not everybody uses the metric system, there are problems in terminology, etc. Many reports are not easy to obtain, some governments simply refuse to make reports available for international students and/or mechanics in aviation. This is very frustrating for people working in this field. Not everybody is American, there are also Asians, Africans, Russians, etc. who are entitled to the same knowledge as you and me. For this reason we publish these reports all in the same style and the same format and all in English. This makes comparison easy. Because we (a number of retired pilots) are talking over small series and the information has to be available for many years we found the solution in publishing them as print in demand by lulu.com. I do not see what is wrong with this. Publishing via a normal publisher means that the series are too large and after a certain time the publication is no more available, they also become too expensive for people in countries that are not so "blessed" as Americans. You should appreciate what we do instead of insulting us, we are simply acting on requests of the industry. You are apparently some kind of Johnny the Selfkicker.

Dr. Dirk J. Barreveld, Netherlands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orientaldecorations (talk • contribs) 13:40, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Please see Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest - it is entirely contrary to Misplaced Pages guidelines for you to be adding books you are responsible for to articles. As for your claims to be an 'aviation specialist', I don't give two hoots - the information in the books you publish is freely available to anyone, and I see no reason whatsoever why Misplaced Pages should assist you in scamming readers. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Johnny the Selfkicker, incidentally, would be this chap.. Britmax (talk) 21:11, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Good faith

Poisoning the well

Please read Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment#Statement_should_be_neutral_and_brief - if you feel that your comment belongs in the filing after that, then so be it. Zambelo; talk 03:52, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

My post was a response to the RfC, not part of the filing. And stay off my talk page - any further posts from you (except for obligatory notifications) will be deleted without further response. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:58, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

ANI

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Zambelo; talk 04:46, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

List of deprogrammers

Hello! Please note that I have restructured the layout of the RfC at List of deprogrammers. Please review and make certain your comments are in the intended section(s). Thank you, Tgeairn (talk) 21:00, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

• On that note, please have a look at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Sfacets. It will be decided on behavioral evidence alone; perhaps you can strengthen the case. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 19:51, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
• Did you see List of Ebola patients? Seemed incredible to me, and on a whim I typed in List of AIDS patients--well, you know about that one. Drmies (talk) 20:02, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Arbitration

Thanks for reminding me of the rules. I notified everyone I named, but you were very fast in writing a reply to the Arb (thanks for staying involved, it is an important issue in either case, I assure you I have been harsh/candid with Carrie as well.) If you want I can put this as a link in the arb article, but it seems pretty obvious to me that you already knew what I had done.

I really am sorry if it looked like I was having a dispute against you. I think you have been fine in the process, like everyone on Misplaced Pages you do use rhetorical diversion, but I genuinely get that you thought Carrie was a troll, and I thought carrie was over fixated on one paid editor. I am fixated on paid editing too, but only because I thought insurance companies were screwing up medical articles. I am not sure that anything can be done about it, and I wish there was a more sympathetic example of righteous indignation than Carrie, but in my dealings with her - and her faults - I do think that the issue is exactly as I am presenting it. I have no problem with her being blocked indef. But I am trying to do a small part in raising an important issue, and I thought it was important for someone like you to argue the other side, which you are doing well. I have to call you out (and you me) on debate points for it to be a legitimate debate, but I assure you that I am asserting exactly what I believe, and am going to quietly go away soon because I have done as much as I can to raise an important question that probably does not have a good answer.

My respect to you. Keep up the good argument. And thanks for you efforts on behalf of the project. Bob the goodwin (talk) 04:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

The Ecologist

Needs to be merged with Resurgence & Ecologist - take a look at the edit at that article I just reverted - couldn't have been more promotional. I wonder if he has a COI. Dougweller (talk) 20:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Not sure - but he certainly seems to have an agenda. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:41, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Cathisophobia for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Cathisophobia is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Cathisophobia until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Srleffler (talk) 21:11, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Arbcom evidence

A warning to both Andy and Zambelo; while almost by definition, we do not get to an Arbcom case without some issues between editors, the evidence page is for the documentation of evidence, it isn't a forum for back and forth sniping.

Some of what has been posted is not in the spirit desired, whether it rises to the level that it requires removal is something I need to look into, but future additions by both should be evidence—factual assertions about behavior backed up by diffs, not pot shots or unsubstantiated inferences about motives. For the arbitration committee --S Philbrick(Talk) 21:30, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

I posted evidence regarding Zambelo's behaviour, complete with links. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:36, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Lia Olguța Vasilescu

The article on this person is curiously resilient. Please see this at WP:AN (yes, the section is still present within the article, or was a couple of minutes ago). -- Hoary (talk) 01:40, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for the minor complication, but as it seemed an "incident" I moved the matter here in WP:AN/I. -- Hoary (talk) 03:48, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

William Shurtleff

I write scholarly books about soybeans and soyfoods then publish them on the Web free of charge. I have absolutely NO interest in promoting my name or my free digital books. However when I believe that one of those books would be of interest to Misplaced Pages readers I post a link to the book. It seems to be that I am enriching Misplaced Pages by doing this and quite a few people have thanked me for these helpful and well documented books. I am not selling anything and am not promoting anything. I can under your point of view - as a machine ~~BillShurts — Preceding unsigned comment added by BillShurts (talk • contribs) 16:35, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages guideline concerning conflict of interest is entirely clear and unambiguous on this point - you have a conflict of interest, and should not be posting links to your own books in articles. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:17, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected

Hi Andy. Sorry to trouble you. I took the liberty of semi-protecting your user talk page. Let me know if you want it unprotected or if there is anything else I can do for you. --John (talk) 20:26, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Probably a good idea for now - Jim-Siduri seems to have returned. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:42, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

RM notification

Since you have participated in at least one Requested Move or Move Review discussion, either as participant or closer, regarding the title of the article currently at Sarah Jane Brown, you are being notified that there is another discussion about that going on now, at Talk:Sarah Jane Brown#Requested move #10. We hope we can finally achieve consensus among all participating about which title best meets policy and guidelines, and is not too objectionable. --В²C ☎ 16:46, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

MMS

Rest assured you're not the only person watching the article... Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:53, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

leave this to you

Hi, This edit https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Hop_on_-_Hop_off_cruising makes a very long editorial statement about how cruise lines should run their business with no question asked. I'd hat it myself, but if I do it will immediately be unhatted just because of my name, so I and dropping this baby on your doorstep. μηδείς (talk) 02:17, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Hatted per WP:NOTFORUM. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:24, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Yet another flaming bag of

For your doorstep: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Miscellaneous#Necklaces

User's a known troll, I suspect he's posted multiple problematic posts recently under different names. This one asks us to help him with his mental health worker's assignement, if I read it right. History is such I'd ask Nil to block him. μηδείς (talk) 05:42, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

we don't need 4 almost identical images

Because no images at all are better then four images depicting the basic training of drawing a firearm and shooting for self-defense. Obviously, right? Cimmerian praetor (talk) 21:40, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Please discuss on the article talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:45, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Hispanics ?

The real problem with that comment at the WP:Help Desk that Columbus thought Hispanics were Chinese is that he is imposing a twentieth-century category on the fifteenth century. There was no concept of "Hispanics" at the time. Anyway, he didn't think that he had actually reached China, or we would have a different confusing name for native Americans. He thought that he had reached the (East) Indies, which is why they are called (American) Indians. Anyway, I don't know what that editor wants. (The Scott to whom that editor refers is a fringe archeologist.) Robert McClenon (talk) 22:56, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

What Columbus argued with King Ferdinand's wise men about was not the shape of the Earth. Scholars and sailors agreed that it was round. (Peasants may have thought it was flat.) They argued about the size of the Earth. The wise men said its circumference was approximately 24000 miles, based on Greek astronomy. They cautioned that Columbus would either run out of food and water or run into unknown land. Columbus said its circumference was approximately 15000 miles. The Earth's circumference is approximately 24800 miles, so that the wise men were right as to the size, and were right in that he ran into unknown land. The question is why Columbus had such an extreme (small) estimate for the size of the Earth. My own guess (and I can't say this in Misplaced Pages because it is original research) is that he knew something that the wise men probably didn't know, and misinterpreted it. He knew the width of the Atlantic, because he knew that the Vikings had crossed it. However, he evidently then adjusted the size of the Earth because he concluded that the Vikings had reached Siberia, rather than Canada. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:56, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Poor Sources

Since when torrentfreak and other news articles are poor sources? --Robin WH (talk) 23:07, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Any source which doesn't say what it is being cited for is a poor source. And Misplaced Pages is not a platform for semi-literate unsourced opinions. This is an encyclopaedia, not your personal blog. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:14, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Well show me how YOU can do it better, smartass, instead of just deleting it. --Robin WH (talk) 23:20, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Show me some sources that actually support what you are saying, halfwit - and the next time you add this crap, you will be reported for edit warring and being a complete jerk. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:23, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Shows only you haven´t read those referenced pages at all. Torrentfreak is regular source for many article on wikipedia and for SOPA you can also find article on BBC pages about his attack on google during SOPA campaign. Robin WH (talk) 23:30, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Evidently you haven't even read the Misplaced Pages article - it already discusses Murdoch's support for SOPA. As for the techdirt piece, it says nothing about Murdoch, News Corp, or the 'internet community' (whatever that is supposed to mean). We don't cite sources for things we'd like them to have said but didn't. And please at least try to write in coherent grammatical English... AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:39, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Evidently, one sentence that he also supports SOPA is not enough since he has targeted online piracy and IT companies quite often in last few years. As for english, I don´t see what I have written wrong, but I am not native english speaker, so please tell me what is not coherent. A too long sentence?Robin WH (talk) 23:46, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

If you are incapable of writing in coherent English, I suggest you find a more appropriate version of Misplaced Pages to contribute to. And if you insist on contributing to this one, please familiarise yourself with policy before wasting any more of other people's time. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:50, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Well I could write some coherent obscenities on your adress, but I would never even dream to descend to YOUR level. I think from their use it is certain you haven´t seen that policy. Calling someone a smartass maybe not polite, but certainly is not as pejorative like names you are calling me. So I will refrain from editing on article, for now. Though I plan to return. Good night.Robin WH (talk) 00:05, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

If you are under the misapprehension that calling someone a 'smartass' isn't pejorative, I can only suggest that once more it indicates the inappropriateness of your contributing to an English-language encyclopaedia - complaining when someone responds in kind does little to enhance your credibility. And before you return, find some sources that actually support the material you propose to contribute. You will generally find it makes editing a much more satisfactory process. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:20, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

1. http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16574977

See this

I guess every editor who is even remotely involved is inputting HERE. That would include you too.VictoriaGrayson 01:07, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Regarding our new mutual acquaintance at Talk:Illuminati

See Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Conspiracy_theorist_at_Talk:Illuminati. Ian.thomson (talk) 04:44, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Gravitation Relativity Cosmology

What is happening with the topic ?

What is happenning is that I have closed it, because you have been removing other peoples comments from the thread. If you act like this in future I will call for you to be blocked from editing. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:32, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

OK Sorrrrry I didn't know it. But let it close. They deleted the whole topic on French wiki.

What is a valid 3rd party source for Creativity Testing...

I am at a loss. Here is a good piece of research a team has conducted. There is a company behind the work, SparcIt. The work has been blessed by NSF - the grant is cited. Participants are leaders in the industry and academia - they are in Misplaced Pages. The company is on the radar of Bolis Forum, a 3rd party. Andy, I do not want to squabble, I deem this useful information worthy of sharing.

What is your definition of 3rd party? Bolis Forum LLC of California provides consulting and training services in strategic product and business planning. It also covers up and coming companies with cutting edge research. Would you have had more respect for Bolis Forum if it were called Bolis Inc? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aleksgollu (talk • contribs) 01:50, 22 November 2014 (UTC)‎

You need to find an independent source that discusses the research in detail and/or provide evidence that the research has been widely cited in relevant journals etc. As it stands, the only sources saying anything meaningful about the research are those involved in it - and they clearly aren't independent. Articles are intended to provide an overview of subject matter, rather than describing every single detail, and inclusion of this material requires evidence that qualified outsiders consider it significant. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:58, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt answer. The work is young, as such a broad list of citations are not available. Would the involvement of NSF not lend credibility? I was not involved until recently. I have looked at the work in some detail and as a 3rd party I chose to talk about them. You can google me if you want, my username is quite a singularity. Would my opinion not count? By definition, anyone who talks about the topic is "involved" and is no longer independent... I purposefully limited my comments to the feasibility of a computer being able to mimic a human in this domain, since that was the most unexpected achievement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aleksgollu (talk • contribs) 02:13, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

If 'the work is young' and as yet uncommented on, it doesn't belong in Misplaced Pages. We aren't experts, and rely on published evidence that something is significant before including it in an article. This is an encyclopaedia, not a news service, and we can afford to let others provide evidence of lasting significance. As for your expertise in the subject, I have no reason to doubt it - but as I say we rely on published sources, and they need to be unconnected (in this case) with those conducting the research in order for us to assess its significance. If you are involved in any way with this, you need to read the Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest guidelines - which state that persons with a conflict of interest should not (with certain exceptions) edit articles directly at all. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:31, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Understood. I will rewrite the section and include references to published articles that explore the potential of humans mimicking computers in creativity assessment - I had focused on the most recent concrete results. As computers beating humans in chess has become a lasting reality, this might (will?) too. P.S. I presume you meant "we can NOT afford to let others provide evidence."

Based on your feedback I have provided a broader background. Constructive feedback is more than welcomed to make this a valuable contribution! --Aleksgollu (talk) 00:06, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Calling an IP editor "a moron"

I understand your frustration but lease don't call IP editors morons, although feel free to revert the advertising that the IP is sprawling all over his/her talk page. It just seems blatantly rude, so please, don't do it. I have reverted the IP, and I recommend you report him. Thank you! --George.Edward.C – Talk – Contributions 09:15, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I have reported the IP - three times (this is the third IP he's used). As for the 'moron' statement, I'll gladly defend it anywhere, as objective fact, though my intent was to try to persuade the IP to actually look at the page he was spamming, and the note I'd left about how it wasn't going to show up in searches, so he realised the pointlessness of the exercise. This isn't the first time we've had this individual spamming this nonsense in inappropriate places either - you'll find past instances in the Talk:Main page history, if I remember correctly, and probably elsewhere too. Clearly blocking the IP isn't going to stop him, but maybe if we can get him to realise he is wasting his own time he'll stop. AndyTheGrump (talk) 09:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I understand your intent. I have reported the IP again for good measure. Maybe a temporary range block would be in order for this instance? George.Edward.C – Talk – Contributions 09:25, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Yeah - a range block might work, for a time at least. I thought I'd asked for one, but it seems that I didn't (in fact I seem not to have reported the last IP at all - I probably forgot to hit 'save' after posting at WP:AIV). AndyTheGrump (talk) 09:27, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

IP seems to have stopped now, will continue monitoring the page just in case. --George.Edward.C – Talk – Contributions 09:36, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Penguins, etc.

I doubt there are many who would disagree that Pablo's silliness about Chuck E. Cheese should be reverted on-sight, and if he persists, a block for disruption could be requested. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:25, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Will be requested. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:29, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Thy will hath been done. Meanwhile, someday when someone has nothing to do, it would be interesting to find out how many editors with words like "truth" in their ID's have lasted longer than a few days here. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:26, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

neutral RfC notification

Template_talk:Succession_box#RfC has a discussion on succession box usage. You had previously noted or opined at Template_talk:Infobox_officeholder/Archive_18#RfC_on_successor.2Fpredecessor_where_a_district_is_not_reasonably_viewed_as_the_same_after_redistricting thanks. Collect (talk) 21:30, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

So..

...you're keeping up with this nonsense? Stop being a dumbass and discuss this shit on the talk page. --Diego Grez (talk) 18:28, 30 November 2014 (UTC)