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WikiProject Anatomy Talk Page
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Wikidata and anatomy articles

Ping to Tobias1984, Was a bee, DePiep and possibly other users who are technologically adept and know what's going on with Misplaced Pages's innards. We have more than 5,000 articles under our scope. Many of these articles have information in their infobox (a number relating to Gray's Anatomy, Foundational model of anatomy and so on). Many of our WP:NAVBOXes as mentioned above also have a Terminologia anatomica, Terminologia Embryologica and Terminologia Histologica numbers attached. I was wondering if we could:

1. See which properties are available in Wikidata, and which need to be added
2. When properties aren't in Wikidata, add them
3. For these properties, use a bot to transfer data from articles and navboxes to Wikidata

For properties, there are those:

1. Already added. That information is here: . Four properties: "anatomical location", "part of", "Terminologia Anatomica 98" and "Foundational Model of Anatomy ID"
2. Currently being requested. That information is here: . As of today (2nd Jan 2015) that's the TE and TH numbers
3. Not yet requested. That includes:
   1. Gray's Anatomy number
   2. Neurolex ID

This relates to a previous discussion about Gray's Anatomy above and on the main navboxes page, but I think that's putting the cart before the horse and we should get Wikidata going first. Have I missed anything above so far? --Tom (LT) (talk) 06:33, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Pages which I know are..

• Existing properties which related to anatomy can be found here (wikidata:Wikidata:WikiProject_Medicine/Properties#Anatomy).
• Although I haven't read all of them, some anatomy related discussions can be found here (wikidata:Wikidata talk:WikiProject Medicine).
• Bot requests are done at this page (wikidata:Wikidata:Bot requests).

--Was a bee (talk) 08:30, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, they're some very helpful links. --Tom (LT) (talk) 11:05, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Some preliminary notes.

Useful links: {{Infobox anatomy}}, what links to (~4500) (did or will the dozen-merge happen, eg {{Infobox bone}} → {{Infobox anatomy}}?)

These templates are all instances of "Infobox anatomy" (if you look at the code), so they're likely included in the 4,500 --Tom (LT) (talk) 11:05, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

What is the relationship between medicine navboxes (600) and anatomy navboxes (mentioned above, #Notification -- anatomy navboxes have changed)? Are all anatomy navboxes included in those 600? I think we need the complete set of anatomy navigation listed somehow, without medicine. In other words, Anatomy should be independent of medicine (stand alone, as WP:ANATOMY is). Would be a good start to work from (that's a todo list).

No relation. They're both separate infoboxes. Anatomy ones have a lot of unique identifiers in them (TA, TE, TH, GA, NeuroLex ID). There is sometimes some crossover (MeSH) but they're distinct. --Tom (LT) (talk) 11:05, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Misunderstanding: not infoboxes, but navboxes. The 600 Med navs are flooded with anatomy topics. What is the navigation system for anatomy? Would be very helpful. Next to a list (category?) of all 10,000 articles. -DePiep (talk) 12:09, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

The data structure in wikidata (d:) is (outdated by now):

d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Medicine/Properties#Anatomy (wikidata, as of 09:45, 2 January 2015 (UTC))
Title	ID	Data type	Description	Example	Inverse
anatomical location	P927	Item	where in the body does this anatomical feature lie	(retina bipolar cell) anatomical location (Inner nuclear layer)	–
part of	P361	Item	subject is a part of that object	(Hypothalamus) part of (Diencephalon)	–
Terminologia Anatomica 98	P1323	String	Terminologia Anatomica (1998 edition) human anatomical terminology identifier	(tibia) Terminologia Anatomica 98 (A02.5.06.001)	–
Foundational Model of Anatomy ID	P1402	String	unique identifier for human anatomical terminology	(parietal lobe) Foundational Model of Anatomy ID (61826)	–

One can improve the table and add links here, but this table must be a copy of the wikidata model.

So the aim is to copy/move data from enwiki into wikidata (not the other way around). I think we need to develop a more precise process description.

-DePiep (talk) 09:45, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

• Approach. Before moving data into wikidata, we must get the structures right & complete. That is:

1. {{infobox anatomy}} should be the one, see Archive:#11_different_infobox-templates. Variants like {{Infobox bone}} must be merged into this one (maybe use |type=bone).

2. We should only use data that is in {{infobox anatomy}}. eg, if part of is wikidata, it should be in the infobox; one can not expect a bot or an editor to search & find that in the article text.

3. The data model for anatomy (table above) must be complete. No use to add some data, and in a year having to revisit eachj article to add another few properties.

4. Maybe contact other language wikis who are active in this? Or do we meet those exactly at wikidata?

5. We need some friends at wikidata. Getting the model right requires quite some knowledge of d:, including the proposal/development process.

-DePiep (talk) 09:58, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Great to have the discussion going already! I won't be able to respond intensively in the next week or so but I'll try and respond once every day or two. One thing I have to mention is both infobox and navbox data are capable of being transferred (not just infobox). And I completely agree with what you state. Infoboxes -- easy, we will be grabbing from parameters and replcing with reference to the wikidata, presumably. Navboxes, like you state maybe we can use a parameter like 'above' to display them. Some responses below: --Tom (LT) (talk) 11:23, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

1. All these are instances of infobox anatomy, so I think this is already taken care of.

2. Agree. One need only skim through Infobox anatomy to find missing parameters (TA, TH, TE, NeuroLex, GA subject, GA page). I believe "Part of" can be used to represent eg the parent of nerve and arterial branches and brain structures.

4. Interwiki language communication sounds quite complex. The TA, TH and TE numbers are international standards, but not for GA. I don't think there are active Anatomy WPs like our one in other languages, at least not in my sporadic travels through the interwikis.

sign Tom (LT), 11:23.

re re 1: those 12 anatomy infoboxes must be guaranteed be the same. Also in coming years. A maintenance job added.

re re 2: OK, but not 'skim through', but 'make it an absolutely good data value, corresponding unambiguously with the wikidata definition'. If that is not safe before, we'll regret it for the rest of wikipedia's life. Flesh out issues before, not when encountered.

re re 4: I only noticed an italian addition by accident. Anyway, be prepared to spend a lot of talking over there. We'll have to convince say frwiki's there, cannot impose.

re (minor) "in the next week or so" - week? lol? Think 'year or so' for this. It's a process, and a lot of stuff needs to be developed in talking.

Note that I am not familiar with this into-wikidata process. But I say, getting the data model right is the main & first job. -DePiep (talk) 12:09, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

• {{List of anatomy templates}} is what I was looking for: anatomy navigation overview. -DePiep (talk) 13:58, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

{{Infobox anatomy}}

Useful links:

Template:Infobox anatomy(edit talk links history)

d: data model

Useful links:

d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Medicine/Properties#Anatomy

Hi all! I just created some more anatomy properties at d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Medicine/Properties#Anatomy. Neurolex-ID is in the table "Neurology" below. - Also: It would be good if all of you sign up at d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Medicine#Participants. If you sign up I can use "ping project" to alert members of important discussions (e.g. new properties, bot requests). - In case you are interested how data can be used on Misplaced Pages you can look at e.g. this edit to the disease infobox (). - Let me know if I can help with anything else. --Tobias1984 (talk) 12:32, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

lol that does not take a proposal process? If we have to change that when data is in there, I'll never look at you again. I note that in there too, anatomy is considerend a subtopic of medicine. -DePiep (talk) 12:50, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Shall we list some five or ten anatomy articles as pilot? -DePiep (talk) 12:57, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

@DePiep: The proposals go into an archive (in this case: d:Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/28#ICD-10-PCS). String-datatype properties are pretty simple and we have a lot of experience with them, so the creation goes pretty fast. - I don't understand your second comment about changing data. - I think your third comment is about the current organization of Wikidata Wikiprojects? The tables are just arbitrary and mostly made by me. But I encourage anybody who wants to fork anything into a new page. --Tobias1984 (talk) 13:00, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

It's all fine with me, it's just I expected that a proposal process was required at d: (consistency, definition, ...). My 2nd remark is that, once the data model is filled with data (individual anatomy article data), it is nigh impossible to change (correct) the data model. I meant to say: be sure that the data structure in wikidata is perfect before filling/using it. My 3rd: yes Wikidata Wikiprojects versus {{Medicine navs}}, (anatomy being independent versus being a sub-set of medicine). I fear that every once and a while a medical issue enters this anatomy topic (here in navigation & listings, at d: in data definitions in med and anatomy already related). Such an intrusion can be about a similar-defined/overlapping/ambiguous property. (maybe that can be solved by 'asking' the d:Medicine properties level: "any objection or issue with defining the property Q123 for anatomy this way?"). Note that I am from the outside, guess you can trust your own judgement (& don't spend all your time answering me). I think the proposal to list 10 pilot articles here is clear. -DePiep (talk) 13:12, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

That is a good point. But Wikidata is also a lot more flexible than normal databases when changing the data model. Each property is independent of the others and can be modified at any time. - Test articles would be a good idea. For example the infobox at Subclavius muscle also contains things like the origin and connecting nerves, which could easily be stored in Wikidata as item-datatype properties. --Tobias1984 (talk) 14:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Sounds OK. Since the d:model is getting robust, I expect our {{Infobox anatomy}} should follow (=have the same data elements; ie parameter+definition). Now I'll stop keeping you from doing all this ;-). -DePiep (talk) 14:22, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

@DePiep: No problem. The best thing for Wikidata is, if many people understand it and know where it might be helpful. --Tobias1984 (talk) 19:53, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Tobias1984, for me to get d:involved: can you give a good example of a (scientific) topic that is quite far in wikidata-ification? (properties complete, data in, data out even; discussions, process, ... to be studied). -DePiep (talk) 20:55, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

@DePiep: I don't think that there is a topic that fulfils all the things you listed. Wikidata is developing quickly, but even today anybody using it, is somewhat of an early adopter. The best Wikidata can do at the moment is store identifiers (such as TA) and those can be displayed in Misplaced Pages (with limitations). But I think that that is good. If we move slow, we don't make too many mistakes and people can get used to the idea of Wikidata. So we reduce maintenance tasks step by step and editors can spend more time writing and editing. As I said above the inclusion of TA () works well and we could do that for more identifiers. The best way to get a feeling for Wikidata is probably to look at the items of some of your favourite topics. You can also use the alternative interface Reasonator (e.g. https://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=190564). --Tobias1984 (talk) 22:16, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Got it. Enough in there to browse, for me. -DePiep (talk) 23:08, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Is there any way we can do this in piecemeal? I don't think I have the mental energy to grasp the entire system at once (or the time, soon). But I think I can certainly grasp eg. Get TH done, ask for importing all TH data, and so forth. --Tom (LT) (talk) 21:38, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

@Tobias1984 I can't help but notice in the Wikidata "Neurology" section a list of things that actually relate to anatomical structures of the brain, not the practice of neurology, so I've renamed it. Secondly "neurological function" is probably just an instance of "Anatomical function" which all anatomical structures have (as attachments, blood supply, nerves to this or that part, and so on). --Tom (LT) (talk) 21:38, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

@LT910001: Thanks for fixing that. The page is not super-organized because there is currently just too much going on at Wikidata. - I also think its a good idea to work on the existing properties first before we request any more. The next thing would be making a list of all the places where the data of the new properties is used, so a bot can import them. Requests are made at d:Wikidata:Bot_requests and you can use {{Ping project|Medicine}} on Wikidata to alert the members of a new bot request. --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:53, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Great, I agree we can try and work on the current definitions / properties and import them, with one exception. The only 'major' properties missing are the Gray's anatomy subject and page number, which are on a significant number of infoboxes. Once that's done we'll mostly have things that are inconsistently entered or localised to infobox variants (eg things relating to muscles, embryology etc.)--Tom (LT) (talk) 22:46, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Update: I have proposed the subject number in Gray's Anatomy 1918 be stored in Wikidata here: . I've updated the discussion above (#Removal_of_Gray.27s_Anatomy_numbers_from_Anatomy_navboxes) accordingly. --Tom (LT) (talk) 22:55, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Properties

I'm creating a subtopic to keep track of proposed properties and their status, and to discuss eg. their names or worthiness as Wikidata properties relating to infoboxes:--Tom (LT) (talk) 22:46, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

• {{Infobox muscle}} and {{Infobox ligament}}:
  • "Attachment" (for muscle, ligament) and "Destination/Origin" (for muscle, ligament)
• {{Infobox embryology}}:
  • Embryological "Descendant" (for embryological things), perhaps by another name.
  • Embryological carnegie stage (not sure about the worthiness here)

Wikidata progress

• • Existing properties on Wikidata: d:Wikidata:WikiProject_Medicine/Properties#Anatomy
  •  Done d:Wikidata:Bot_requests#Request_for_EN_Anatomy_bot_to_grab_infobox_data

• TA (3047 statements: Can we estimate if that is all of them on en-wiki?; Also: Isn't this transcluded already?)
  • Query: http://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/autolist1.html?q=CLAIM
  •  Properties in Wikidata  Imported to Wikidata  Property transcluded in infobox
• Gray's Anatomy subject (2820 statements)
  • Query: http://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/autolist1.html?q=CLAIM
  •  Wikidata property  Imported to Wikidata  Property not transcluded in infobox
• Gray's Anatomy page (0 statements)
  • Query: N/A
  •  Wikidata property  Imported to Wikidata  Property not transcluded in infobox
• TH (6 statements)
  • Query: http://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/autolist1.html?q=CLAIM
  •  Properties in Wikidata  Imported to Wikidata...  Property transcluded in infobox
• TE (1 statement)

• • Query: http://tools.wmflabs.org/autolist/autolist1.html?q=CLAIM
  •  Properties in Wikidata  Imported to Wikidata...  Property transcluded in infobox

Also known as property

Hi. I am a little late to the party here and got a little confused reading the above thread since I know very little about Wikidata, so forgive me if my question is out of place. When importing TA, TH, TE or the infobox parameter "Latin" is it possible to automatically also move them to the "also known as"-?property?/field on Wikidata so people will be apple to search using these terms? Kind regards JakobSteenberg (talk) 01:09, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

@JakobSteenberg: At least for some items and some languages this has already been done, for example : WD item for adrenal gland has the latin name in German and some other languages. We could request for a bot to do the same for English. But searching should already work, because the search looks through all the languages. --Tobias1984 (talk) 11:57, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I did not know that. Thank you @Tobias1984:. That is a great step in the right direction but I still think a bot would be a good idea for a couple of reasons:

• Male intuition tells me that there the English Misplaced Pages contains more anatomy articles that any other Misplaced Pages. After four failed attempts I found Auricular branch of posterior auricular artery which does not have a corresponding article in a different language and hence can not be found searing on the Latin term.
• There could be cases where all non-English articles use a different name e.g. an article about the heart is properly name "heart" in German, Italian and Chinese and not the Latin "cor" (not the best example in the world but I hope it does the trick).
• There are also structures with multiple Latin terms e.g. femur where one could imagine that there would be a Italian, French etc. article by the "femur" and some named "thigh bone" in other languages but none named "os femoris" or "os longissimum", which are far more obscure terms.

As I pointed out before I know more or less nothing about Wikidata and even less about bots, but I would be willing to help out where ever I can is I can find a way to move forward with this. Kind regards JakobSteenberg (talk) 00:47, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

@JakobSteenberg: I usually just look through the item history to see which bot has made similar edits. It seems d:User:MerlIwBot has experience with parsing these names and adding them to the Wikidata item. You could ask the user to do the same for the English infoboxes. --Tobias1984 (talk) 10:52, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Again, thank you very much. I will try talking to him or her. JakobSteenberg (talk) 12:36, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

About TA property and FMA IDs addition

(I don't know where should I put information, so I put here. If this place is inappropriate, please move this to somewhere.)

I added TA98 and FMA IDs at Wikidata manually. I didn't use automatic processes. I opened this TA98 tree, and searched English Misplaced Pages articles one by one with English, Latin and other synonyms, through from top to down of this TA tree. As a result, there are differences in numbers on each websites. As follows.

• TA has about 7500 entries. (Terminologia Anatomica)
• English Misplaced Pages has 4500 anatomy articles. (Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Anatomy articles by quality statistics)
• And IDs I added at Wikidata is about 3000. (d:Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P1323)

The main reason why TA has 7500 entries but Wikidata has only 3000 IDs is...

• TA is very detailed, than Misplaced Pages. Substructures (e.g. very small branches of nerves or blood vessels and so on) have its own entries in TA, but in Misplaced Pages, these terms are generally described in its parent structure articles.
• TA is human anatomy terminology. So TA doesn't treat anatomists (e.g. Johannes Sobotta), animal anatomy (e.g. tail) and so on.

As far as I think, these two are main reasons of number differences.

TA Property transclusion in {{infobox anatomy}} is already working. Formerly I asked at Module_talk:Wikidata, and User:RexxS had wrote code for our project at Module:Sandbox/RexxS/TA98. This code is working now smoothly (thank you RexxS).

I added FMA ID (Foundational Model of Anatomy ID) when I added TA ID at Wikidata. However FMA is not international standard terminology. But in data processing realm (means treating human anatomical concepts on computers as data), FMA is more popular than TA. Because FMA is more detailed and the most importantly FMA is structurized as ontology. FMA defines many relations between each entries (e.g. "is part of" or "is developed from" or "is nerve supplied by" or "muscle attaches to" and so on). Thank you. --Was a bee (talk) 06:40, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Was a bee, thanks, that's some amazing work and very useful. Almost daily I click on the TA to cross-reference an article, and the future possibilities for research and wikidata are many and varied. --Tom (LT) (talk) 09:26, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Presentation of parameters in infobox

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am here because I responded to a request on Template:Infobox anatomy. A few comments:

• TE and TH parameters are not currently linked to anything.
• FMA parameter is linked, but has a duplicate FMA: prefix caused by the {{FMA}} template. I think this should be removed. (Perhaps an option when {{FMA}} is called.
• FA parameter is linked, using a call to Module:Wikidata. I think, for consistency and simplicity, it might be better to use {{TA98}} here.

— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:39, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Update: I have just seen the discussion at Module talk:Wikidata#Is it possible to call single value from the property which has multiple values? about the possibility of multiple TA values. Does this apply to the other parameters that use wikidata? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:52, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

@MSGJ I don't understand much of the technical coding, but Frietjes spent a lot of time and effort simplifying the structure (it was even worse before) and may be able to help here. --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:28, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

if the property has multiple values, you should use invoke:Wikidata rather than property directly (per the linked thread). Frietjes (talk) 14:09, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Thank you @MSGJ:, Sorry for not quick response. I response each questions one by one.

TH links: Setting links is nice and important. Currently, there is only one website which contains full list of Terminologia Histologica entries. (here) This is official website. But is not good quality, because is just a scan of the published book and low resolution. Anyway, I feel it is better to link there than no links. I checked URLs and I figured out that we can get links to TH by the code following.

Here I use {{Str mid}} to get first three digits from TH code, and {{Str rep}} to remove ". (dot)" from string. --Was a bee (talk) 07:22, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

TE links: Terminologia Embryologica also has same condition. But TE URLs need bit complex conditional branch. As far as I checked this page, conditional branch should be as follows. I think this is bit complicated to handle. So I think it is better to leave this to a later time (to say, let us leave TE IDs with no links, because making link-URL from TE identifiers seems very difficult). --Was a bee (talk) 10:37, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

FMA link style: Some sources treat "Prefix + digits" as identifier, So I put that as it be. But I don't have clear position about this. In my feeling, removing "FMA:" prefix seems better. Because official FMA website treats only digits as identifier.--Was a bee (talk) 07:22, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

I summarized the part of the discussion, at Template talk:Infobox anatomy as code request. Please see that. Thank you.--Was a bee (talk) 13:54, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Autofilling parameters

There are a number of neglected fields in the "Infobox anatomy", eg "System", "Precursor", "Part of" and so forth. Now that TA has been uploaded to Wikidata, I wonder whether it would be possible to autofill some parameters based on the TA value? EG:

• All "TA06.01" can be set to "Part of = Nose",
• All "TA06.04" can be set to "Part of = Bronchi" and "System = Respiratory", "Exam = Respiratory"
• All "TA06.06" can be set to "Part of = Lung" and "System = Respiratory", "Exam = Respiratory" and "Precursor = "Respiratory bud" and "Foregut" and "Mesenchyme"

I think this would be possible if we set our minds to it. We could rapidly work through a great deal of infoboxes using this model, and it would add a lot of basic information that I think users may need. Especially interesting would be if we can link some terms to other wikidata entries. Then someday we could click on "Mesenchyme" and see all things that are derived from it (and so forth). --Tom (LT) (talk) 21:23, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

(Am using this link to access TA). --Tom (LT) (talk) 21:28, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Three confusing templates

I've been working through our template group and come upon these:

• {{Human cell types derived primarily from ectoderm}}
• {{Human cell types derived primarily from endoderm}}
• {{Human cell types derived primarily from mesoderm}}

Can any users enlighten me as to (1) why these are relevant? and (2) propose a better name, one that might better convey their scope and purpose to lay readers? --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:32, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello Tom (LT) - thanks for finding these, I think they are really relevant and have added them to Human embryogenesis and Germ layer and Cellular differentiation. There was a 'same' template for cell types from mesoderm listed on Germ layer page with the template -Germ layer-. Thank you muchly--Iztwoz (talk) 08:15, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome. But would you be able to think of a better title? I do not think "Human cell types derived primarily from mesoderm" conveys the purpose of the boys (ie. why couldn't it just be contained within 'mesoderm'? Why does every article need to be linked?) moreover (2) what title would be more accessible to lay readers? --Tom (LT) (talk) 10:21, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi Tom. I think these are nice templates to have, not for their ability to classify types of cells but to provide an insight into human embryogenesis, which is not all well covered in the encyclopedia. They need some rearrangement, as there are cells that don't belong in some templates but that can be fixed. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be a clear substitute of words like ectoderm—they are not really used in everyday talk, altough the name can use some rewording, off the top of my head I guess 'Ectoderm derivatives' or just taking 'Human' and 'primarly' out (as in Cells derived from ectoderm) are ok, if I can think of something better I'll tell you. --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 13:22, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Or what about 'Germ layer cells from ectoderm' --Iztwoz (talk) 18:07, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I've retitled the cells something I hope is mostly accurate that lay readers can also read. --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:24, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

I guess my underlying question is, what navigable value do these have? Perhaps they should be converted to tables? I just don't think many users will go to, for example, C cell or D cell and want to navigate to the next ecto/endo/mesodermally derived cell. In my mind this should already be mentioned in three places: Firstly, on the articles about mesoderm, endoderm and so on. Secondly, within the "Development" section on each article, and thirdly, within the "Precursor" box within the infobox. So is it necessary to have this as a navbox (ie something which users will choose to navigate Misplaced Pages by?) --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:24, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

While I find it unlikely anyone will find it useful at C cell (which is a fully developed/differentiated cell) I can see the benefit of having it on articles on developing cell/tissue types such as Interstitial cell or Endoderm, Ectoderm, Mesoderm etc. -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 11:00, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

I guess you make a good point, it is useful to some extent to have these. --Tom (LT) (talk) 07:29, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Looking more in depth I would like to remove some of the indexes at the bottom of the templates. The connection to various diseases/cancers are relevant, but linking to anatomy is less so. Any suggestion on what would be a good replacement? Even worse some of the links such as the one for Bone Procedures go to templates, not article. -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 09:25, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Please have a look and contribute on the talk page. I fully support removing any irrelevant embedded navboxes from templates, but I think when you see the talk page you'll understand why I'm asking you to centralise there :P. --Tom (LT) (talk) 10:05, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

I've been sort of avoiding delving in too deep with this because I thought, "they're good editors, they'll come up with a good solution", but seeing the extent of the work I realize I could just help out. I'll try to make room in my shedule to read up on it. :) -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 12:20, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, we could use some extra eyes. --Tom (LT) (talk) 23:51, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Bad templates

The following templates are severely deficient: Linked from {{Human_cell_types_derived_primarily_from_mesoderm}}

• {{Bone and cartilage navs}}
• {{Urinary system navs}}
• {{Vascular navs}}

-- -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 09:30, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Wow, there are like 30 more linked in the documenation and none of them link to articles, only to more templates.

Are these being used, and is there any reason they link to more templates instead of articles? Are they not meant for use in articles, in which case we need to remove them from the endo-, ecto-, mesoderm templates? -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 09:34, 22 January 2015 (UTC):

• Template:Medicine navs(edit talk links history) - Overview page

I've been involved in discussions with other users regarding these templates for the last two months, Template talk:Medicine navs here. A short summary is that these replaced the unreadable bottom bars previously. Have a look and comment at the page itself, discussions are still ongoing and more eyes are always appreciated. We're also slowly going through existing templates to clean them up (a list is on the page). Cheers, --Tom (LT) (talk) 09:55, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

It's breathtaking to see how these templates evolved from something somewhat readable at their start to the state they were before you guys took this over. I haven't started to read the talk page yet but let me ask something Tom, has it ever been proposed that the index nav linked to articles in summary style or lists pages instead of templates? --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 21:49, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

There was a user who suggested it. I think the navs do offer an interesting overview of a topic. The benefit of linking to templates is that it is more maintainable and that there is a limited set. If we were to link to summary style articles there would be a lot more links, or if we created them the effort required to create and maintain such a set would be substantial. Have a look + read and then contribute on the page, I hope we can centralise discussion there so it doesn't get too branched. --Tom (LT) (talk) 23:51, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for answering. I'll take a look and see if I can catch up. --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 13:41, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Commons:Category:Files from Wellcome Images

Large number of significant historical anatomy images uploaded here recently. --Tom (LT) (talk) 23:42, 23 January 2015 (UTC)

Wow. 100,000 over images! Tom, Thank you notification. --Was a bee (talk) 12:42, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

category:Human mouth anatomy

FYI: I have just added this new category and noticed many pages with unanswered comments on talk pages belonging to this categry. For example:Talk:Maxillary canine. Ottawahitech (talk) 20:27, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

While these certainly belong in WP:ANAT, I think you may find WP:DENTAL more helpful when it comes to oral anatomy. -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 22:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

FGM on main page: monitoring needed

This Friday, Female genital mutilation will be featured on the main page. From 00:00 6 February 2015 and for about three days after, there will be a dramatic increase in traffic to the page. The TFA blurb is here. The date coincides with the International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation and the UN will be doing what it can to raise interest in FGM, and that will direct even more traffic to the article.

Would participants here please do extra monitoring of articles linked from FGM. The following is from the lead: clitoral hood ∙ clitoris ∙ labia majora ∙ labia minora ∙ vagina ∙ vulva. Thanks. Johnuniq (talk) 04:14, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I would love to help. I already have the page for Labia Minora on my watch list. Forgive me for what may seem like a silly question, but what exactly does "monitoring" entail? I imagine essentially keeping abreast of page changes to prevent vandalism? Fetters of ennui (talk) 04:30, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Since you know what a WP:Watchlist is, I'm certain that you know what Johnuniq means. Yes, it means what you stated in your "04:30, 5 February 2015 (UTC)" post, except that it also means keeping a lookout for WP:Disruptive editing in general. Flyer22 (talk) 04:42, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations to Misplaced Pages for allowing this to be featured on the main page. I still remember (vaguely) creating category relating to the topic and having the category deleted. So looks like we are making some progress!!! Ottawahitech (talk) 16:22, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

I entered the scary parts of Misplaced Pages

These articles even state they are synonymous, but...

• Waist
• Midriff

... also see Navel's history for the past month.
-- CFCF 🍌 (email) 20:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Yikes. Agree those articles are in need of cleanup, but I'm not sure how they should be merged unless some information is lost... at least in my part of the word, in wiki terms the midriff is of enough sociocultural importance to justify it's own wiki page. One day I will add information about the history of Navel gazing, which is quite interesting. --Tom (LT) (talk) 21:06, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm almost tempted to simply leave it, and there are a whole lot of articles there I want nothing to do with, but these seem important enough to be worthy of consideration. -- CFCF 🍌 (email) 21:44, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, these seem like good examples of those articles that have such a wide overlapping in terms of Anatomy and social significance that is difficult for us (as WP:Anatomy) to edit with the same consistency of other articles. Maybe Waist and Abdomen can be merged without loss of content, but Waist-hip ratio confuses me in the sense that waist may have a narrower definition (why no Abdomen-hip ratio?), and a redirect to Abdomen doesn't look right in that case. Anyway, I'll see if I can give a hand on these articles, I'm already grouping the text on Waist under headers we see more often. --Tilifa Ocaufa (talk) 23:45, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Male body shape article needed

Back-round: Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Countering systemic bias/Gender gap task force#Female body shape

The article is already requested in articles for creation but it would be nice to have this done sooner rather than later. Please if anyone would be willing to help out. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)