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Revision as of 20:20, 21 May 2015 view sourceMontanabw (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Event coordinators, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers105,500 edits →Bit fed up: Heh, wise.← Previous edit Revision as of 20:26, 21 May 2015 view source Montanabw (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Event coordinators, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, File movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers105,500 edits →A borderline "difficult" editor: Me.Next edit →
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:::Ah, that's it! ] ] 19:15, 21 May 2015 (UTC) :::Ah, that's it! ] ] 19:15, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

::::I don't worry too much about "hounding" where there is a clear problem and pattern that can be documented with diffs, though sometimes I save the diffs in case they try to drag me to ANI. But that's me. ]<sup>]</sup> 20:26, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

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Molon labe!

Time for me to beg for help again...

BUt it's not a female, not even a female horse. Long dead American, actually, but still a bad boy. If you and/or your talk page watchers could look over Monroe Edwards, he's going to head towards FAC soonish, I hope. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:50, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

bump? Ealdgyth - Talk 13:25, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
How's he looking to you? Ealdgyth - Talk 13:51, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
It looks pretty good to me, good enough for a shot at FAC I think. Eric Corbett 13:57, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Forbidden topics

I'm forbidden to comment on RfA or the GGTF, but nevertheless I want to sign off by commenting on both.

RfA is a vicious travesty that ought to have been stopped long ago.
The GGTF is also a travesty, fuelled by comments made by the terminally dim Sue Gardner, and which will cost the WMF lots of money in funding daft projects that will not make the slightest difference to anything.

Now block/ban me, and see if I care. Eric Corbett 20:18, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Anyway, since I'm here, I might as well make a point: if you observe recent (in)activity at WT:GGTF, you can conclude that it's being slowly abandoned because people just don't care about the sort of activism not justified by any demonstrable problem, so it will only die its natural death by abandonment. On the other hand, Eric, you fell victim of a quite similar fallacy of your own: you spotted a piece of unjustified activism and immediately took the bait of opposing it by all means available, which eventually attracted (already too high) attention of trolls, admins, Arbcom and His Majesty to your case.
Morale: Don't feed the trolls. While largely undervalued, silence and ignoring by the wise are quite powerful weapons against losers whose sole purpose on this planet is to be paid attention, the more of it the better. And you sinned by givin' it all too much to them.
Go, and sin no more, my son. Let your sins be forgiven in the spirit of the Easter. No such user (talk) 22:08, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Whack!

You've been whacked with a wet trout.

Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.

Montanabw 22:18, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Interesting also to notice that after all the palaver about a women-only space there is virtually no activity at the Kaffeeklatsch, as far as I can see (just one topic which wasn't about the Klatsch itself), and in 2 1/2 months just six editors have signed its pledge. Most of us are too busy building the encyclopedia. PamD 23:10, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
But No, Eric, please don't reply to this post! PamD 23:12, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Time wounds all heels.Two kinds of porkBacon 16:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
No wonder my feet hurt... --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 01:58, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Still got my popcorn. Hope all is well for your folks, I'm a lot less active but i hope things are improving. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 14:15, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Always good to know ... that a church's 1510 spiral of justice (pictured) declares: "Justice suffered in great need. Truth is slain dead. Faith has lost the battle"? Things seem not have improved too much since that was carved in wood, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:39, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Did you know ... that a church's 1510 spiral of justice declares: "Justice suffered in great need. Truth is slain dead. Faith has lost the battle"?
The poem ends with "Praise the right thing".
From the church where Andreas Scholl began his career ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:06, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
No such user and PamD: Maybe there's less activity and interest in GGTF and the Klatsch because people who are or might be interested in them are tired of trying to get through the virtual picket lines of protesters who surround it? All to make the WP jocks and cheerleaders, so to speak, feel better about themselves? Or to save Misplaced Pages from some community "disaster"? We can only guess, because those places weren't allowed to grow or die naturally; they were actively bullied by those who saw no value in them (and therefore must have no value) or were even threatened by their very existence. Meanwhile, the marginalized remain marginalized, and are still talked about behind their backs. Lightbreather (talk) 18:04, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
LB, are you hallucinating? Perhaps the pain meds for the broken elbow? You are one of the primary obstacles to any improvement(s) that may be required. You were told from the get-go that your methods were all wrong, and so it seems to have proven thus far. - Sitush (talk)
I am no longer on anything stronger than ibuprofen. Thanks for expressing your concern. Oh wait! You didn't. (Eric's kitten dies - and being a pet lover, I agree that was sad - and Wikipedians put on black armbands. My best friend's kidneys fail and I break my elbow while visiting her, and it becomes a joke.)
But I digress. What are you on? Because your comment hardly addresses what I wrote. The protests at GGTF and the Klatsch weren't about me, they were about (at GGTF) evidence that there is a diversity problem and probably is a sexism problem on Misplaced Pages. Anyone could have brought up such topics, I was just one of the unlucky ones who did. At the Klatsch, it wasn't about me, it was about having a women-only area - and how that would destroy Misplaced Pages. Again, anyone might have proposed such a space, and there were dozens of people at the IdeaLab who supported that idea. I was just the one vilified for having the ovaries to speak it. Lightbreather (talk) 18:26, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) You're making a lot of fuss over a broken elbow, hardly a life-threatening or even particularly debilitating condition. I broke my arm after slipping on icy steps about five or six years ago. It wasn't unusually painful and it didn't prevent me from typing once the cast was put on my pinned arm the following day. The only real inconvenience was that the cast made it impossible for me to put my arm through the sleeve of a coat. Eric Corbett 18:40, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Mine was very painful, almost up there with back labor (that I experienced almost four decades ago and still remember vividly) and the bursitis I had in my shoulder a few years go. It did prevent me from typing with my dominant hand for about two weeks. I'm out of the cast but now have to wear this thing that looks like a torture device - to me anyway. Maybe you're one of those lucky people who have a higher pain threshold? Maybe you were younger when you broke your elbow than I am now? Does it matter? Yes, it's been a big deal for me. Lightbreather (talk) 19:07, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Or maybe I just don't make such a public fuss about a minor injury? Eric Corbett 19:28, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Eric Corbett: What is your purpose when you start discussions like this? Lightbreather (talk) 18:12, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
What discussion? I was simply making a comment about the absolute dishonesty of forbidding anyone to express an opinion. But as it happens I have no intentions of ever discussing anything with the supporters of either RfA or the GGTF, as both have blocked up their ears and closed their eyes to the reality. Eric Corbett 18:29, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Misplaced Pages is not a blog. When you start discussions here - which is what we call these things with headers on talk pages - you know full well that your watchers are gonna come along and stroke your ego and you'll all lift your virtual pints and say "Hurrah!" or "Good on ya!" or whatever the hell you say, and speak poorly of your enemies (or the insects or rejects or however you think of us).
A lot of people hang on your words, Eric Corbett, and defend you, and follow your lead. So you have a beef with Misplaced Pages and Jimmy Wales and I don't know who-all else that pre-dates my knowledge of your existence. You could do a lot to help restore peace to this community by not starting such discussions.
I don't believe my ears are blocked or that my eyes are closed "to the reality," and since you're not allowed to discuss these things here, you can email me, if you wish, and we can talk privately. I'd like to start about what you mean when you say "the reality" - if you're interested. If you're not interested in that, maybe you could answer the original question: What was your PURPOSE in making the comment at the top of this thing that isn't a discussion? Lightbreather (talk) 18:47, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
What is it that leads you to believe you have any right to come to my talk page and demand anything of me? Added to which I'm not interested in any private conversation. The reality is plain for anyone to see; millions of dollars will be thrown away to address a problem that nobody really has any evidence is a problem at all. Eric Corbett 18:57, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
That is an interesting reply from someone who regularly demands, but since this is your talk page, I'll bow out for now... unless the discussion takes a turn about me, in which case I might reply. That, or maybe close it? (A suggestion, not a demand.)
That you misread the situation once again is really no surprise. The non-discussion was never about you, and I never close discussions anyway, I simply let them be archived once they go stale. I call that "transparency". Eric Corbett 19:25, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Lightbreather, what exactly are you doing here? I suspect it's looking for trouble. You say: you have "the ovaries to speak it." Well good for you, and we'll take your word on that. You know very well that Eric has the balls to be very blunt, but he is showing extreme restraint. So I suggest that you pack up your ovaries and go away. Giano (talk) 18:37, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
We may each draw our own conclusions Giano, and I've certainly drawn mine. Eric Corbett 18:46, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Florence Nagle

I was thinking of gunning for FA for this, that would be quite some achievement to see her featured. What do you think folks? Open a peer review? It's definitely comprehensive anyway.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:10, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I think Florence would make a plausible FAC, so I'd say go for it! Eric Corbett 14:20, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
It's certainly been very well researched. Amazing really what all of us found and discovered on her together. I feel quite confident that it's a worthy candidate. I've just nommed Castell Coch though, perhaps we could wait a few weeks? We could open a peer review on the weekend and keep it open a few weeks and then nom?♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:53, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure that a peer review would add much of value at this stage. I'd suggest that Sagaciousphil make the nomination, as in my mind it's largely down to her that it's in the state that it is today. Eric Corbett 21:11, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, Sagacious should be the one to nom it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:54, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
She'd prefer not to, so she's asked me to do it. Eric Corbett 10:58, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
... which I've now done. Eric Corbett 19:32, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
And I supported, though I think I was too involved with the editing to be a neutral reviewer. But I'll watchlist and be glad to clarify any matters equestrian that may arise. Montanabw 21:09, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Turn of the Screw (2009 film)

I'm happy to defer to your judgement, but I'm not so keen on starting sentences with "But" (with the exception of "But for"). Is that something which is OK? Josh Milburn (talk) 20:54, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

It's a myth propagated by primary/elementary school teachers that starting sentences with conjunctions ist verboten. Eric Corbett 21:04, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Great, thanks. I'll leave it for now, but it may end up getting reworked come FAC. Josh Milburn (talk) 21:31, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
I doubt it. Eric Corbett 23:21, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
Speaking of grammar myths, so goes the one about ending sentences in prepositions. Two kinds of porkBacon 18:38, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
For whatever reasons, I think that Americans are more susceptible to these myths. Eric Corbett 18:42, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
And while I'm at it, here's one of my pet hates: "In 1986, X did Y". What is the point of that comma, other than to placate a long-forgotten elementary school teacher who didn't understand English grammar and just wanted an easy life? Eric Corbett 18:48, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Eric, I'm pretty surprised to hear you say that. "In 1986" is an adverbial clause. I was taught that an adverbial clause preceding a main clause needs a comma, whereas one following a main clause does not. So it'd be "In 1986, X did Y." or "X did Y in 1986." The article on About.com agrees with me: "When an adverb clause begins the sentence, use a comma to separate the two clauses. Example: As soon as he arrives, we will have some lunch. When the adverb clause finishes the sentence, there is no need for a comma. Example: He gave me a call when he arrived in town." Are you of the view that an adverbial clause preceding a main clause never needs a comma, or do you think dates are a special case? Josh Milburn (talk) 20:42, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
"In 1986" isn't a clause by any reasonable definition of that term. Unless you live in America of course. Eric Corbett 22:13, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
"X did Y" makes perfect sense without the date; if "In 1986" isn't an adverbial clause, what is it? "X did Y" is the main clause. "In 1986" is an adverbial clause, as it gives us information about when the happenings of the main clause took place. Josh Milburn (talk) 08:20, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Only in America. Eric Corbett 10:29, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Prose woes (?)

my last buff, Corona Borealis...stalled at FAC (Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Corona Borealis/archive1)...maybe because the prose could be snappier (?) - anyone wanna look at the prose ...or even just the lead might help...cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:51, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm thoroughly confused by the last two paragraphs of the Mythology section. Why would the natives of New Zealand and Australia have names for a constellation they couldn't see in the southern sky? Eric Corbett 18:02, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
They can see it, but it is low in the northern sky. Some of these constellations that only appear for a short time seem to have significance because of their novelty. The big dipper can be seen from northern Australia too. The aborigines also held more significance in distinctive patterns of fainter stars sometimes than the brighter stars. Makes for fascinating reading. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:22, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
That's not at all clear from the article, although I see there's a brief explanation in the linked Northern Celestial Hemisphere. Presumably the explanation lies in the Earth's wobbly rotation? Whatever, even a note to explain what's going on would prevent another non-astronomer from that WTF moment. Eric Corbett 21:29, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, thankfully for all constellations I've found an online source so that all have the latitudes they are visible from, and it is listed in the Characteristics section (currently second sentence in). With some, if I come across a source that really spells it out (like best visible in autumn in the northern sky from Oz) I try to get them in as well - it sounds like it'd be good to find some from what you're saying. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:03, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm just speaking as someone with rather little interest in astronomy who lives in a big city often covered by cloud, so I rarely see stars anyway. But maybe I'm not the only one who might pop at the thought of a constellation in the northern hemisphere being visible in the southern hemisphere as well, when I've never seen the Southern Cross for instance. Or maybe I have, but just didn't notice? Eric Corbett 22:54, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Aaah, no. that's much too far south, as is Alpha Centauri. Anyway, this is why having laypeople is good for reading these. some of this didn't seem obvious to me. cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:09, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Varagavank

Evening Eric, any chance you could give this a read/copyedit? I passed the other one a week or two ago but I'm reviewed this one and it doesn't quite seem there. The dates I find repetitive and I think it should really have more on architecture. Additional comments at the GAR by you or anybody here will be appreciated.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:13, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

@Dr. Blofeld: Tell you what, I'll look at this if you look at Corona Borealis (see above) as I think I need someone not familiar with astronomy to take a look....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:42, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
@Casliber: Thanks. I was about to comment at the FAC but I see it's been archived?♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:19, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes - this being the problem - I've had a bunch of astronomy editors look at it, but not a layperson, so need this to happen as preamble before next FAC, which will be in about 10 days....mainly the lead. It got no comments in a month and was archived. I generally find this happens when some article I've buffed is a bit on the dry side....sigh. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:26, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
No comments whatsoever? Crikey. I'll give it a read now. Let me know when you nominate it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:33, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
You're absolutely right, there are far too many sentences/paragraphs beginning with "In XXX ...". Eric Corbett 18:25, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm not at all convinced by Varagavank as a GA, I think it needs more work before it meets the GA criteria. Eric Corbett 21:34, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Mattisse as a GA reviewer

Hi, I believe that you have experience of Mattisse and their vast drawer of socks. It turns out that they were the GA reviewer for Herbert Hope Risley, an article that I pretty much rewrote some time ago before sending to GAN. Should I be concerned about this? I am working it up for a possible FA run but if Mattisse is that problematic then it may not even be GA. - Sitush (talk) 08:01, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

(watching) I experienced the reviewer on the strict side, failing Unionskirche, Idstein, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:44, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
She could be a good reviewer, unless she felt slighted, in which case she could be difficult. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:03, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I think she was generally a good reviewer, so I wouldn't be too concerned Sitush. Eric Corbett 09:06, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I concur. The issues with Mattisse were all in relation to her interactions with other people; I don't think anyone has ever raised an issue with the actual content either of her or of any members of her sockfarm. – iridescent 10:09, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Aren't some people convinced Matisse is Rational observer here?♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:58, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Mattisse has never stopped socking, but RO is not Mattisse. She had the capacity for doing good (albeit superficial) review work, unless her knickers were in a bunch (which they were whenever another editor had even a trivial disagreement with her or questioned her knowledge or edits), in which case she became unhinged and her work became erratic to the point of introducing more errors than she fixed. In short, Sitush, just because she was once involved in a GA means little at this point; when she got fussed and introduced prose and citation errors, they were easily noticed and fixed. Since she continues to sock (and follows Eric closely), discussing how her socks are recognized is not wise ... she does continue to edit. PS, Iri, there were numerous issues with actual content; as FAC delegate, it was most frustrating to watch nominators have to deal with issues introduced by her copyedits. Of course, I couldn't always say that on or during the FAC review ... and just had to wait for the issues to be fixed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:42, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
The worst types of editor are those who go through articles introducing errors on purpose and disguising them with references. I don't know why anybody would waste their time doing that!♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:17, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I don't think she ever did it on purpose; it happened when she got rattled (which was not infrequent). Once she tagged a lot of citations as "Failed verification" because she didn't seem to realize she had to access and read the full journal article instead of just the journal abstract. And then trying to point out her error rattled her even further ... after something as minor as that, where she didn't accept correction, her work would just fall apart.

But, Sitush, back to the question ... I don't think whether an article is or isn't a GA is that relevant at FAC anyway. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:15, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) OK, thanks to everyone for their thoughts. I see that Eric has also wielded his special brand of polish. I have got one or two things to add to the article and, ideally, I'd like to reduce the number of quotations a little without losing impact. I will take the thing to FAC in the near future. - Sitush (talk) 14:17, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Ladies vs. women

Women's football is starting to become big business here in England, but I'm struck by the difference in team names. Arsenal Ladies vs. Manchester City Women: Charlton Ladies vs. Durham Women. Maybe parity in team names is a project the WMF could be persuaded to sink another few million dollars of donors' money into? Eric Corbett 20:12, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Is there any correlation to how old the teams are? Once upon a time, when sports were deemed "unladylike," I can see using the name "Ladies" for good PR so as to avoid, well, the opposite term for certain women. Today, that is not an issue, so "women's" is simply descriptive, if rather obvious vis-a-vis its opposite. We have the "Lady Griz" here in Montana, and as anyone knows, the mama bears are far more fierce than the males... who have an unfortunate tendency to eat their own young... Montanabw 23:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
I don't think so. Arsenal Ladies were formed in 1987, but Manchester City Women were formed the following year, and I don't think attitudes changed much between 1987 and 1988. But hopefully the WMF's millions of dollars will be able to address the discrepancy. Eric Corbett 01:10, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Maybe it's a north-south thing - as there is Tottenham Hotspur L.F.C....oh, but there is Blackburn Rovers L.F.C. and Brighton & Hove Albion Women & Girls Football Club so that doesn't follow...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:45, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

No one is using the "ettes" suffix? While it's somewhat outdated, for some names it has a nice ring. Glad to hear the women's leagues are gaining momentum. China and the U.S. needs the competition. FIFA should consider making the pitch smaller to put more emphasis on skill instead of endurance. Two kinds of porkBacon 04:11, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Eric Corbett

You are invited to join the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Eric Corbett. Thanks. gobonobo 20:28, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't think I'll bother, thanks all the same. Eric Corbett 20:30, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
And here's a curious thing. I don't give a flying fuck whether I'm blocked/banned from Misplaced Pages or not; the loss would be Misplaced Pages's, not mine. Eric Corbett 01:18, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Eric, can you do everyone a favor and tell LB not to post on your page? It would alleviate a source of friction.Two kinds of porkBacon 04:01, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
She can't, at least until her current block is lifted or expires on 25 May. --Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 04:40, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

William Thomas Arnold

Hi, don't know if you or anybody else interested in Manchester here wants to clean this up and improve it. Seems to have been a notable figure in the development of the Manchester Guardian. Just started, it should be updated with the ODNB and further sources and rewritten in part of course but it's better than nothing anyway!♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, but I absolutely hate those articles copy and pasted from an ancient edition of the DNB, and rarely touch them. Eric Corbett 13:38, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Fair enough, but I think it's better than nothing at all. That's a point actually, I wonder if it would be worth having a separate article for the older period when The Guardian was known as The Manchester Guardian and Manchester based?♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:39, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Might be worth it, never really thought about it to be honest. Eric Corbett 13:43, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
The main Guardian article focuses largely on post 1959. Very little on 1821-1959. I think The Manchester Guardian should probably cover that period and then a hatnote explaining that it became The Guardian in 1959. Not sure what could be found on it though. Perhaps Sitush would be interested. No worries if not, just an idea.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:54, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
I think you might be right. I'd be very surprised if there isn't quite a bit of material on The Manchester Guardian. Eric Corbett 13:59, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Almost certainly, one of the best independent sources will be the stuff by the late lamented Stephen Koss. I've got a copy somewhere but it is well over 1000 pages. I'm sure there have been writings by connected people also, about both Arnold and the old Guardian. - Sitush (talk) 14:03, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
You'd certainly expect a major newspaper like that to have a detailed historical account of it. I think it would be interesting actually what could turn up in researching it related to the history of Manchester. Let me know if you ever make a start on it and I'll try to help.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:08, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
Yesterday I finally moved Census of India prior to independence out of my userspace. Today, I'm trying at long last to wrap up User:Sitush/whitehead, which has a lot of citations of the Guardian and has just led me down a short byway. Maybe by this weekend I will have cleared the decks and can settle down with Koss. I might need some spinach before dragging it off the bookshelf. - Sitush (talk) 15:55, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

note:

I may well get my head handed to me for this, but I do want to note it. It's possible you don't follow along with the various "get Eric" threads, and I can understand that. But a comment was made I think you should be aware of. this one

And actually it's a comment I fully endorse. I know we disagree on a great many things (from religion to actors), but one thing I don't want to loose is your work here. Yes - that sounds like you are a disposable commodity, but a great many people want you here, want your input on encyclopedic articles, and it really is more that just "your work". A great many people here not only like you, but more importantly respect you Eric. (myself included) To be blunt, I think you really do enjoy crafting great pieces of encyclopedic material. I know you claim "I don't care if I'm blocked", but I honestly think you'd miss contributing here. Defend yourself here on your talk, but stick to the high road. I'm asking this as a favor. Please. Don't let them drag you down with the ship. — Ched :  ?  04:24, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

How pompous & patronizing. (And it's "lose" not "loose". ) IHTS (talk) 07:36, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
  • IHTS, FTLofG, can you please just STFU every now and then? Ched is a lot of things, but this isn't pompous or patronizing, and his intent is a hell of a lot better than yours appears to be. (Your correction is patronizing, and your correction of Montana's "more fierce" is not a correction--unless you're a pedantic prick. Which I am sure you're not.)

    Eric! How's it going! I just read the Arb Enforcement page, or whatever it's called--that was a shitty thread and it's over, and that's all there is to it. Just stay away from LB: it goes away. I just read her talk page, and I don't think I'm among the 5,000 others who were pinged (A+ for talk page contributions after block), so my ignoring that editor seems to be working. Also, I have been reading lots of books and lots of poems, and doing lots of really poor teaching; my drop in edits on This Valuable Project is not bad for the soul. Happy days to you; I hope the ferrets are well. The chickens (we have two now!) send your carnivorous creatures a big fat "fuck you", all in the expectation that those critters will never discover my home address. Be well, dear friend. Drmies (talk) 03:26, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

  • Thanks. We have two cats as well now to go with our eight ferrets, so we're pretty much a carnivorous household. Except for my wife of course, who hardly ever eats meat. Eric Corbett 12:17, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Holy moly. When you run out of food for those animals you're in real trouble. Which reminds me I need to get both chicken and cat food. If I don't, the cat will end up as chicken food, no doubt. Those bitches (Poppy and Pigeon) totally run the joint; even the dog is scared of them. Drmies (talk) 14:22, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
My coworkers laugh because I eat chicken for lunch almost every day. We raised some when I was a kid, and *I* was scared of them too. I eat them now for revenge :) Karanacs (talk) 14:39, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
User:Drmies are your chickens for eating? I am curious how hard it was to get set up with them..I'm interested in the nest 1-3 years to getting a few chickens for that purpose and I have worked with other animals but not chickens. Do you have any good websites you can point to? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 14:47, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
As unlikely as it is for a human to love feathered reptiles, I do. I could never kill or eat them. Poppy makes relatively small but delicious eggs for us, one every day--she turns cat food and bugs and all kinds of disgusting things into a thing of beauty and I thank her for it. It's not hard, though when you get chicks there is a certain...attrition. One chicken got hauled off by (probably) a raccoon. We got the second when she was maybe two months old; my wife's school has chickens, a great experiment from their biology teacher. I don't have any websites to point to though I'm sure they're all over the place. If I come up with simple tips, I'll give you some. I find it very rewarding and calming, and the kids love playing with them. Drmies (talk) 14:51, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
One of my sisters-in-law keeps chickens; my brother is forbidden to even think about putting them in a pot. They roam around during the day and, for some weird reason, are happy to return to the coop at night provided that they get a grape as a reward. The other sister-in-law keeps rescue (!) pigs. They're big 'uns, not Vietnamese pot-bellied types, they too roam during the day and that brother is also not allowed to muse on cooking the livestock. I bet they wouldn't last ten minutes Chez Drmies. - Sitush (talk) 15:11, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh this is all too charming. Yes, chickens eat bacon! Drmies (talk) 17:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
One of the lesser-known facts about chickens is that they make good journalists. Hence, Pullet Surprise. - Sitush (talk) 11:33, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

When I'm not goofing off on wikipedia, in the real world I am a computer programmer using Scrum methodology. Scrum has a joke/philosophy about levels of involvement in a process and therefore who holds power/responsibility in certain aspects. Between the recent drama, and the barnyard discussion above it seems appropriate : http://www.implementingscrum.com/images/060911-scrumtoon.jpg Gaijin42 (talk) 15:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you

Just to say thanks for undertaking the GA review of Thomas Charles Lethbridge. Best, Midnightblueowl (talk) 09:46, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Interaction ban between yourself and Lightbreather

Eric, per the result of the discussion here at WP:AE, you and User:Lightbreather are indefinitely prohibited from interacting with, or, directly or indirectly, commenting on each other, broadly construed, per WP:IBAN. Although this discussion was held at WP:AE this is to be considered a Community sanction and any clarification requests or appeals should be made at WP:AN. Struck to replace with: This is a Discretionary Sanction that is an Arbitration Enforcement action under The GGTF decision as amended February 2015. You may appeal this sanction using the process described here. I recommend that you use the arbitration enforcement appeals template if you wish to submit an appeal to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. Even if you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful. You are also free to contact me on my talk page if anything of the above is unclear to you. Zad68 01:43, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

I don't believe that your IBAN has any legitimacy, so I shall ignore it. Eric Corbett 03:02, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
I've had a self-imposed interaction ban with Lightbreather for quite some time. I can't imagine any possible good from interacting with her, and it's been a great aid to what's left of my sanity. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:34, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Very wise I think. Eric Corbett 12:13, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

A beer for you!

I would prefer a good English cider like Blackthorn but alas it's hard to get here. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 03:23, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Book offer

I saw "British Cars of the SIXTIES" by Doug Nye. Would you like me to pick that up for you? — Ched :  ?  16:14, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Where did you see it? You're in the US aren't you? Eric Corbett 16:18, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
It's at a local used book store - yes, I'm in the US. They had two copies, both in very good shape, and very inexpensive. — Ched :  ?  16:24, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
this one, and under $10. — Ched :  ?  16:27, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Tempting, but the shipping would probably be prohibitive. Eric Corbett 16:38, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
FWIW, I have books shipped to me from the UK all the time. Cost depends on weight, of course, but it's seldom more than a couple of quid if you're not in a hurry (i.e. willing to wait for the Slow Boat to China to dock). I'm assuming that rates are comparable going back the other way. DoctorJoeE /talk to me! 17:00, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
  • FUCK I had a damned novel written here and lost it over an edit conflict. Bottom line: I got the book. Cost me less than a case of beer to send it. I don't contribute to "almighty foundation" anymore - rather spend it to get good articles. Cost you nothing - but you'd have to email me some mailing address. If you'd rather not - we'll figure some other way. — Ched :  ?  22:01, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
sent — Ched :  ?  22:33, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Every day I get treated like shit

Welcome to Jimbo's wonderful world of Misplaced Pages. Eric Corbett 21:53, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Ah, happiness. Also plays well with bacon and roasted tomatoes and tortellini. Drmies (talk) 23:47, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
...and here is the bacon. Mmmmm...bacon and beer.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:36, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Snake Pass

Updated DYK queryOn 30 April 2015, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Snake Pass, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Snake Pass. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Allen3  12:10, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

I know beer and bacon goes down well, but personally I find giving credit for article work that I think is due is nicer. Ritchie333 12:44, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

That's because it is...;-)--Mark Miller (talk) 20:30, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

A project of mine

Hi Eric,

After becoming a little bored writing near-stub articles on galaxies/fish/etc., for which little information is available, I'm going to start seriously working on more articles where my true interest lies; namely, history and art. (Trust me, I'm a perfectly awful painter, but I'm still interested nonetheless.) My first project will be to improve articles on early English monarchs, in which I've always been intensely interested, and perhaps even help get the list itself promoted to FL status. Since you've done quite a bit of work on good and featured content, do you know of any resources, such as advice pages, that might be useful to me? I've never written anything of featured quality, or even a 1,000+ word GA, so the content field is still relatively new to me. Thanks, --Biblioworm 15:44, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Yay for a new history writers!! You are in luck that there are already a few FAs on early English nobility that can serve as examples. Ealdgyth and Mike Christie are fairly active in this area, and they could be great resources for you on where to find appropriate sources. Karanacs (talk) 15:53, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping, Karen. There's also Dudley Miles and Amitchell125, who've both done work in this area, and some other editors now inactive. Good places to start for the period up to about 850 are Yorke's Kings and Kingdoms of Early Anglo-Saxon England, and Kirby's The Earliest English Kings. For after that period a good source that can be picked up relatively cheaply with good overview coverage is Campbell's The Anglo-Saxons, which is beautifully illustrated -- it's a coffee-table book, but a very good one, written by scholars. WP:FA has a royalty section that will give you the names of the kings that are already at FA; quite a few are done but there are plenty more! Dudley and I are currently working on Æthelwulf of Wessex -- or more accurately he's working on it and I'm hoping to get something done in the next couple of weeks. Feel free to post any questions or requests for help or review on my talk page. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:08, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
My advice? Read a lot of the standard works before you dig in. Most of them can be found used as references for the Anglo-Saxon monarch articles Mike and Dudley have worked on. I tend to work on more ecclesiastical stuff from before the Conquest, but I broaden out after the Conquest and write on nobles and monarchs as well as clergy. Hell, I've even written on taxes... Ealdgyth - Talk 16:11, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
Would it be good to thoroughly read the The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle? I have a copy of that. --Biblioworm 16:16, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
It really needs to be read in context; if you have a good edition (I have Swanton) then going through it and reading the notes will give you a good start, sure. I should add that I haven't read it all the way through; I've read it up to about 900 and I dip into it as the secondary sources indicate for dates later than that. And while we're on primary sources, you'll also want a copy of Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English People, which is actually a pretty good read except when he's going on about the date of Easter. The Penguin Classics edition shouldn't cost you more than a dollar plus postage. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:26, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm particularly interested to learn more about the English capture of Manchester and the surrounding area, apparently under Edward the Elder, or maybe Æthelstan in the early 900s. If anyone knows of any good sources.--Trappedinburnley (talk) 18:21, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
So, it appears that I already have The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, Ecclesiastical History of the English People, and Kings and Kingdoms of Early Anglo-Saxon England. The Earliest English Kings, which seems to cost around 100 dollars, is out of my price range. I'll probably get a copy of The Anglo-Saxons in the near future. --Biblioworm 18:59, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
I would generally advise avoiding too much primary source reading if you're wanting to work on Wiki - you'll get into too much chance of OR that way. On Edward the Elder - Dudley Miles would be a better source to pump - I don't know what is the current scholarly "go-to" biography for him. If you can't afford a book, play scholar and ... get it ILL and copy the bits you need. All medievalists end up with lots of photocopies .. it's a failing of the occupation. Ealdgyth - Talk 19:24, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
I don't think I need to do that. I'm already finding several secondary sources on English history that can be downloaded from the Gutenberg Project or the Internet Archive (Great Britain to 1688: A Modern History, for instance). I'll continue searching for more. --Biblioworm 19:34, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
The Earliest English Kings is available on used.addall.com for $1.33, or if you're in the UK it looks like about five pounds for the cheapest I see on that side of the pond. But if you're more focused on Edward the Elder Kirby's a little too early for you. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:26, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm mostly interested in English history starting around 850 (when Alfred the Great was born), so as you mentioned, I'm not sure if that book would be too useful anyway. --Biblioworm 22:34, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • You know I don't like anything past the Reformation! Early English TB history is ... blech. I do have a friend on FB I can refer you to if you'd like, she's more into the TB history than I am, especially the English bits....Ealdgyth - Talk 19:24, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
I think the conquest of the north west was largely carried through by Edward and his sister Æthelflæd in the 910s. The crucial source on Edward is Edward the Elder, ed. Higham and Hill. On Æthelflæd see the bibliography in her article. Stenton's Anglo-Saxon England is dated but still the best general history, and DNB articles such as on Æthelflæd at are also helpful. There is probably useful information in some books about the Vikings but I would need to check which ones. Dudley Miles (talk) 21:47, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Biblioworm, that really is an interesting subject and one I also have some interest in as well. Would love to participate in collaborating with you and others. Another editor with some good experience raising early English monarch articles to FA is DrKiernan. We collaborated during the GA review I did of Charles I of England and was a very civil and patient editor. He has since raised the article to FA. Some of my main interest include Early English Monarchs, heraldry, Coat of Arms and the genealogy aspects of the serving lines to the crown such as standard bearers and other closely associated positions, titles etc..--Mark Miller (talk) 22:39, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

GA?

You're the expert on GAs, do you think this is anywhere close? Giano (talk) 10:59, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

It shows promise but no, it shouldn't have been listed, far too many rough edges. Eric Corbett 14:08, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
It's far better than Jama Masjid, Delhi, which showed up on the main page 2 days ago - between start & C if you ask me (start at best on the architecture). But I've never been able to understand what the GA standard actually is. Johnbod (talk) 16:42, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Mendip Hills and other old FAs

There is a massive initiative going on to review "old" Featured articles and ensure they meet current standards. I have received a request to review several that I nominated years ago. As a result I have spent the last couple of days on Mendip Hills (which you copy-edited years ago) updating info (population data etc), fixing deadlinks, dealing with overlinking etc and have expanded the lead. I wondered if you would be kind enough to take another look at the prose before I respond saying that this article is still OK?— Rod 14:49, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

I'll try and get to that this evening, once I've had another read through your Dunkery Hill article. Eric Corbett 15:13, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Social reform in Postwar Britain

Looking at Brian's FAC and am amazed to see no article on this. Postwar Britain coverage on this is very scant. I'm not sure you'd be interested in such an article but I was wondering if a page stalker here would be interested in producing a half decent article on such an important topic. Social reform in Postwar Britain ought to have a very decent article by now.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:04, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Surprised given the number of baby boomers here that nobody is interested in even commenting about it. Oh well, hopefully Aymatth will show an interest.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:40, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Arghhh

Another favor to ask: Could you take a look at a paragraph for me? User:Drmies/Ched and me. The "Life" section just really sucks.

  • He was the musical director in several churches and eventually became an evangelist for more than a dozen years, afterwards he became a music teacher at the Moody Bible Institute in 1939, where he worked until his death. He adopted the middle name of "Dixon" as an homage to the former pastor of the Moody Church, Dr. A. C. Dixon.

Gerda, Drmies and I have been been working on this .. but that one paragraph just absolutely doesn't work. I know you're off on Monday ... but when you get a chance, I'd appreciate it if you could help. — Ched :  ?  04:26, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

How about:
  • He was the musical director for several churches and became an evangelist for more than a dozen years. In 1939 he took on the post of music teacher at the Moody Bible Institute, adopting the middle name of "Dixon" as an homage to the former pastor of the Moody Church, Dr. A. C. Dixon. - Richerman (talk) 09:18, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
I linked to Evangelism, - better read the article than copies here ;) - If that's wrong, please change, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:55, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Evangelistic work- could mean anything; buttonholing, handing out leaflets, wearing billboards saying "Repent, the end is nigh". Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 11:12, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
I know, but I would not say someone is an evangelist if all he does is hand out leaflets. I am guilty of an evangelist article myself, but not in question here, - and I fight the name Evangelical for "Evangelisch" as misleading (s. talk of Evangelical Church) ;)
In Evangelical circles I think you would "say someone is an evangelist if all he does is hand out leaflets", and no doubt talk a bit. Johnbod (talk) 11:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
They never get beyond "Hello, are you interes ..." or "Hello, I am from ..." when they appear at my door. The leaflet stays firmly in their hand. This assumes I even bother opening the door, which I don't if I have spotted them coming down the street. I'm sure I've seen people evangelising things that are not religious beliefs, although maybe that is an appropriation of the word to indicate zealotry? Manchester United supporters spring to mind, hey Eric? Although doubtless that is a religion to many. - Sitush (talk) 12:06, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
I well remember one knocking on the door of our student house in Leeds right at the climax of the famous Liverpool-Palace FA Cup semi-final. Our housemate answered the door, and was greeted with "Would you like to hear about the Kingdom of Our Lord?" (or similar) to which he responded "Would you like this TV remote control shoved up your arse?". I feel sorry for them sometimes. Black Kite (talk) 23:38, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 11

The Misplaced Pages Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 11, March-April 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

  • New donations - MIT Press Journals, Sage Stats, Hein Online and more
  • New TWL coordinators, conference news, and new reference projects
  • Spotlight: Two metadata librarians talk about how library professionals can work with Misplaced Pages

Read the full newsletter



MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:20, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Private Apartments of the Winter Palace

I'd be very grateful if you could give this a copyedit for me; not one of the best pages, but it's been finished in rather a hurry. Sad because interiors have never been my favourite or strongest point, but it completes the category or main rooms off. Just give me a few minutes to add some cats, and then I'm done with it. Thanks. Giano (talk) 12:09, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

It's the very least I can do, after all the help you've given me. Eric Corbett 14:46, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
Miss him, - sad, this "done with it". He could have joined the cabal of the outcasts. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:57, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
I think he was the founder member Gerda. Eric Corbett 15:11, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, but you and I can take it and stay. I remember. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:25, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
There's no real guarantee he's actually done with it, either. One way to make a statement here is to retire and then unretire, after all. Intothatdarkness 15:34, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
I would love if you were right. - Usually I wait a week (Hafspajen, Adam Cuerden) before mourning (bring flowers, dedicate an article, translate one to German). Belly feeling, you know? - I was ready to leave myself but stubbornly decided not to provide the pleasure of seeing me gone to those who may want it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:59, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Pause for thought

I've just come across a comment made by Jimbo on his talk page "Misplaced Pages is a moral statement about the kind of world we would like to live in."

I didn't come here to make moral statements about anything, I came to help write an online encyclopedia. And if Jimbo's vision is the reality, then I've been wasting my time on a project the aims of which I fundamentally disagree with. No doubt any news of my retirement would be music to Jimbo's ears though, which is largely why I haven't yet done it. Eric Corbett 16:30, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I can kinda buy into that if the moral is free and neutral access to knowledge. I strongly believe that information and critical thinking are the keys to, well, just about everything. Can't do much about the critical thinking part, but we're all doing our share towards the information part. The WMF? Meh. Karanacs (talk) 16:33, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
If that is his vision then it is a damn dysfunctional utopia. Not that he has any control over it, so I'm not sure who the "we" is unless he is in delusions of grandeur mode. There are certainly delusions of some description. - Sitush (talk) 16:36, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
And if the morality is that nobody should ever use words considered to be naughty in backwoods America? Eric Corbett 16:38, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
Try phrasing that as "words considered to be naughty by narrow-minded individuals" and you might be on to something. Trying to tie that behavior to national origin is, to me, counterproductive. Intothatdarkness 16:49, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
I think I'll stick with my original statement if it's all the same to you. If Americans want to use a bowdlerised and watered-down version of the English language then let them set up their own fork and leave the rest of us in peace. Eric Corbett 16:52, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
I grew up in a small town in the Bible Belt. It's a different culture (and one in which I never quite managed to fit. Likely because I never really tried.). If the WMF intends to use us as an experiment on creating an online utopia then they are going to be sadly disappointed. We can give a one-fingered wave to the polite POV-pushers (who may or may not have the ability to write a coherent sentence) as the rest of us exit stage left. Karanacs (talk) 17:49, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
My feelings exactly. Eric Corbett 18:01, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
At the risk of getting virtual rotten tomatoes hurled at me, I have this emblazoned at the top of my User page...

My overall viewpoint towards Misplaced Pages is that is it a place of learning and a means to counteract ignorance and bigotry. My reason for this belief is that the lack of knowledge is the seed of bigotry. The more knowledgeable and enlightened people there are, in my opinion, the less ignorance and bigotry we will have in the world.

--Scalhotrod (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 18:04, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
Seems like a much worthier goal than Jimbo's empty words. Eric Corbett 18:26, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

With respect, I think you're reading more into those words than need be. Simply the fact that people from all over the world are coming together to build not just an encyclopedia, but the largest encyclopedia in history, editable by anyone, for everyone to read, for free, for no compensation other than the joy of doing it, is, in itself, a strong moral statement about the kind of world that we would like to live in. We don't need to add anything about utopias or naughty words for just that to be a strong moral statement. --GRuban (talk) 18:24, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

As long as essays like WP:NOJUSTICE exist and favored admins like Dennis go around spouting "No justice, only solutions", and contributors get banned, chastised, disgraced, ridiculed, name-called, attacked, humiliated, and strung-up by lynch mobs, or unilaterally blocked by abusive admins with personal grudges ... it is exactly the "kind of world" I want no part of, duh. IHTS (talk) 09:09, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
@GRuban. I might be more convinced by that argument if Jimbo Wales hadn't made it so abundantly clear that the only thing he's really concerned about is what he risibly calls civility. Eric Corbett 17:53, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Kings Hall, Manchester

Eric, I am loathe to bother you having just spent some time reading about the latest episode of the ongoing drama but I don't really know what to do about Kings Hall, Manchester. It is a virtual unattributed copy and paste from the Belle Vue article that you wrote with little contributions from me. I have been reverted, not for the first time, and am not willing to waste my time on an editor who keeps recreating it against advice. Perhaps someone, page stalker, anyone with clue could suggest a way forward because as it stands it adds nothing of value to what's in the featured article. J3Mrs (talk) 15:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Am I imagining it, or was that article created and subsequently deleted maybe a couple of years ago? In any event, it needs to be got rid of again. Eric Corbett 15:18, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
You have remembered correctly, same editor. Shall I turn it into a redirect again or is there a better solution? J3Mrs (talk) 15:21, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
I'd go for the redirect, and I'll keep a watch on it as well. Eric Corbett 15:31, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
... and if it's not an unattributed copy and paste job, as the editor claims, it's rather difficult to explain why the Bibliography section contains so many unused sources. Eric Corbett 15:35, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Done. The sources were obviously copied too, I expect he'll be back, he's somewhat persistent. J3Mrs (talk) 15:38, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
I can be persistent too, and so can you. I worked hard on that Belle Vue article to honour a fallen comrade – a fellow member of the infamous Manchester Mafia – who was denied the opportunity to complete it, so I'll not sit idly by and watch anyone take the piss. Eric Corbett 15:51, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
I'll add both the Belle Vue article and the redirect to my watchlist, if either of you need help with that editor, ping me. No sense anyone getting into 3RR trouble. Montanabw 19:43, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
On behalf of the Manchester Mafia I thank you. Eric Corbett 19:51, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Interaction bans and the Lightbreather ArbCom case

Editors banned from interacting with Lightbreather are reminded that the banning policy states that:

"if editor X is banned from interacting with editor Y, editor X is not permitted to:reply to editor Y in discussions or make reference to or comment on editor Y anywhere onWikipedia, whether directly or indirectly".

This includes case talk pages. However, while the Committee allows editors some leeway to respond to statements about them on the evidence and workshop case pages, they may not participate in the case except to respond with statements about allegations that have been made about them and may not make direct communication. Such statements that they do make must be brief, to the point, and civil. Editors with interaction bans who fail to comply with the letter or spirit of this very limited exemption will be treated as though they breached the interaction ban.

Lightbreather has been also informed that this applies to her. Dougweller (talk) 08:58, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

But she will simply ignore it, and beg for immunity to continue writing her essays, which she will be granted. Meanwhile, what are the rest of us supposed to do? Just wait to be shafted by ArbCom? Eric Corbett 19:57, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Watchlist. Sigh. And buy popcorn to watch the show. Hell, buy stock in Jiffy Pop. Montanabw 22:42, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
She seems to be doing a pretty good job of displaying her true self on the Arbcom pages .. I'm considering not even adding my evidence. — Ched :  ?  23:06, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure it will matter. She never seems to have really hidden her true self and still gets away with her passive-aggressive bully tactics. Intothatdarkness 14:19, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

George Meany

Apologizing in advance for bringing another American topic to your attention. Thanks again for your help with Harry Yount. I have been working on and off on the biography of U.S. labor union leader George Meany for several years. Two weeks ago, I put it forward for a GA review and so far, crickets are chirping. If you or anyone else here would take a look and make any improvements whatsoever, I would be grateful. If there are any glaring faults, please let me know. Is a two week plus wait expected, or am I being too impatient? Cullen Let's discuss it 06:17, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

No disrespect, but complaining that something at GAN hasn't been picked up for two weeks is ridiculous. Even the most cursory glance at WP:GAN will show you that (a) that there are a number of unreviewed articles going back to last year, let alone last month; (b) that even within the tiny WP:GAN#ECON subsection, this is one of the most recent nominations and there are seven entries ahead of you in the queue, and (c) that you have "Reviews: zero" which means the regulars aren't going to be inclined to do you a favour and let you jump the queue. – iridescent 07:57, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
If you will take another look at what I wrote, Iridescent, I hope that you will notice that I was asking for information and for comments, not complaining or asking for special favors or jumping of queues. Now I know that it may take months before someone looks at the article, and that I should consider becoming a GA reviewer myself. Any tips you might have for a first time reviewer would be appreciated. Thank you very much for your frank comments. Cullen Let's discuss it 23:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Cullen, on a quick look I would say the article seems a bit newspaper-heavy for my taste - there's at least one dissertation about this man, and several journal articles that could be used for sourcing (though I haven't examined their content closely). If you'd like to email me, I could share a few PDFs with you? As for reviewing, I would suggest WP:RGA as a good resource, and WP:Good article help has a list of potential reviewing mentors if you're interested. I sympathize with the impatience - I've got an article in the queue myself at the moment - but as Iri says, 2+ weeks (even 2+ months) is the norm. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:41, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for emailing those PDFs, Nikkimaria. I need to do a lot of reading now, which is a good thing. You might want to check out the Port Chicago disaster, which took place about 25 miles from where I live. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:15, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Lightbreather arbitration case: special arangements

Because of the unusual number of potential participants with interaction bans in the Lightbreather case, the committee has made special arrangements to enable i-banned editors to post and respond evidence about each other. These are as follows:

1. All i-bans and associated restrictions are suspended for the purpose of participating on the /Evidence page. This suspension extends solely and exclusively to the /Evidence page but some tolerance will be given on the /Evidence talk page to link to material on the /Evidence page.

2. For simplicity, and for the purposes of this case only, one-way i-bans are regarded as two-way i-bans.

3. Threaded interactions of any description between participants are prohibited on both the /Evidence and the /Evidence talk pages.

4. Similar arrangements apply to /Workshop page and the /Workshop talk page.

The original announcement can be found here. For the Arbitration Committee, --L235 (t / c / ping in reply) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:58, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

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Thanks! Delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk), on behalf of National Names 2000 10:39, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

A dubious copyeditor

Eric and fellow FA/GA writers: would someone please check out contributions of 108.221.18.208 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)? He "copy-edits" articles, but to my non-native eyes, his contributions only degrade the wording for the most part. He seems to have a general dislike for passive voice, relative clauses, and generally follows some quite old-fashioned (or just idiosyncratic) style. At best, he replaces some just fine constructs with another, equally fine, but for example I feel that this round of "copy-editing", getting rid of some just fine "in order to"s deserved a revert. I'd be interested in an analysis and, if I'm right, someone having a word with him, or, if I'm wrong, a trout whack on my head. No such user (talk) 21:05, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

And his selective editing of his talk page to remove all criticism raises further concerns. No such user (talk) 21:15, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not permitted to be critical of other editors, or at least in the current climate it would be unwise of me to do so. Eric Corbett 21:21, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
While I have not yet proven my editing chops here, I do see some of these edits as acceptable. The Bay of Pigs Invasion changes are solid, as are the Lycoming XR-7755 changes, from an American english perspective. The Cognitive dissonance edits are not an improvement; rather they seem rather heavy-handed and actually make the article less clear. I will take a look at some of them, they seem to be extensive. Scr★pIron 21:34, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Association for Promoting the Extension of the Contagious Diseases Acts

Thanks for editing the above, but I don't think that the word "acts" on its own, as used in the article, should be capitalized (I'll check other articles on this). BTW the article is still at a very early stage, I'll be adding to it next week. Hohenloh 19:14, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Whichever you choose the article ought to be consistent. I merely copied the first usage, I didn't introduce the capitalization. Eric Corbett 19:20, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Bill Cosby in advertising/archive2

Hey talkpage stalkers and all, was reading Bill Cosby in advertising...which I didn't think read too badly. Now that I've gone through it, be interested if someone else does to see what they think. Has been very slow to attract reviewers at FAC. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:36, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

I've posted some comments at that FAC, trying to be helpful... Anyone up for a GA review should I nominate something? Or should I nominate it?! Nortonius (talk) 17:48, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
If you feel reasonably confident then go for it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:02, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
On a very quick read through it looks fine, so if you stick it up I'll review it. Eric Corbett 21:31, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Ah thanks both! Eric I'll stick it up right after I save this, you're very kind! Nortonius (talk) 22:38, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I am. ;-) Eric Corbett 22:41, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
You are indeed! I thought Monday was your day off?! Posted under Art and architecture. Nortonius (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Bit fed up

Hi Eric, I see you are still plodding on. I know you have much more to be brassed off about but I'm very discouraged, I haven't looked in much recently but now that I've had a bit of time I've discovered, looking through my watchlist, that what I thought I knew about citations has changed. I've not had a lot of enthusiasm for a while and I wonder if I ever will have again while there are so many tinkerers and so little writing. J3Mrs (talk) 14:58, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Plodding on is about right. And you're not the only one who's been complaining to me about all the tinkering with citation templates that's been going on recently. Still, much easier to do that than to actually write something I suppose. Eric Corbett 15:06, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
I've always tried to do the right thing (with varying degrees of success) with citations, but my little system for getting them (nearly) right has gone to pot and, well honestly, I can't be bothered. J3Mrs (talk) 15:13, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
{{#tag:ref| in raw wikicode always sucked. {{efn-lr}} fixes the failure of roman numerals in footnotes. What's not to like? Andy Dingley (talk) 15:43, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
There have been a lot of other changes recently, some of which certainly are not an improvement from the point of view of content creators and none of which have been widely advertised. Go to the CS1/2 talk pages and they are practically owned by the very few people who actually code these things: they seem not to listen much, instead dabbling in their own little hobby without much thought for how it affects the core mission of this project, ie: what happens in the edit window.
As with Eric and J3Mrs, I am out of sorts. I'm having occasional blasts where I do a phenomenal number of edits (mostly fairly repetitive) in a short period but I'm also both spending less time here and, critically, spending less time researching stuff off-wiki. I am being asked to look at more and more things but feel increasingly unwilling to do so. - Sitush (talk) 16:16, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

When it comes to coding stuff, I freely admit my ignorance and simply attempt to make my citations consistent within the article. If someone else doesn't like it, they can change all of them to a different consistency within the article. I don't even attempt to understand it, I just copy and paste whatever form I am told is proper. I have other dramas to face and am willing to freely admit my complete ignorance on this topic. As for the rest, I think we all are getting a little twitchy - I just snapped at Sitush a week or so ago, he had snapped at someone else, and probably was on edge due to the situation. Montanabw 03:13, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Montanabw, Just ignore the mean, nasty, vindictive stuff. If someone is talking "at" you, instead of "to" you - ignore it. Some people don't know how to really communicate - they "listen" in order to "respond"; instead of listening to understand. If someone is pissing with an article you care about - walk away for a week or two, then come back and fix it later. Life is short, and it's damned sure not worth getting high BP or heart problems over a freakin website. Relax - enjoy the good things in life. — Ched :  ?  04:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
What Ched said. There's a few million articles that need work on, and not enough editors to fix them, so you can always find something to improve. It's just some website, your next employer won't care who moaned about you on ANI. Ritchie333 16:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Heh, good advice. I sometimes suck at taking good advice, though (eep!) Very, very hard for me to ever walk away... always worried what happens in my absence. That said, taking deep breaths is always an excellent approach and even if I can't walk away, I can take a lot of deep breaths and keep breathing for calming effect until my mastodon settles back down. Montanabw 20:20, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

A borderline "difficult" editor

Have any of you come across an editor called Haldraper? He or she often returns to articles and under often fake edit summaries (like "tighten a bit") omits large amounts of content. He or she has been tackled by myself before (in my case, for edit-warring an article, then, waiting until a 2 week protection had lapsed and then starting again). He or she has been blocked for doing this before, and they have been blocked for edit-warring. Their latest shenanigans is on Wincle where they come up with many spurious reasons, but just in edit-summaries, and they do this to many articles about places in or around Cheshire or Manchester. They never engage in talk page discussions about contentious editing and seem to ignore the WP:BRD notion. They also generally ignore messages on their talk page about the style and content of their editing. Anyone come across them before? I'm wondering what, if anything, should be done about them.  DDStretch  (talk) 17:37, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I have looked at some of this editor's contributions, and found that sourced data has been removed from multiple articles with no explanation during the rewrite. I have reverted a few, as the wording was not necessarily an improvement. I will keep an eye open to see what response I get, but do not wish to change more for for fear of being accused of hounding. Scr★pIron 18:03, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for at least confirming that I am not completely deluded about some of the edits this person makes. I, too, find myself in a tricky position, also because I don't want to appear to be hounding, but many of the edits I find remove far too much.  DDStretch  (talk) 18:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
That name rings a bell, let me think. Eric Corbett 18:06, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Old Trafford, Greater Manchester, see User talk:J3Mrs/Archive 9 J3Mrs (talk) 19:05, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Ah, that's it! Eric Corbett 19:15, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I don't worry too much about "hounding" where there is a clear problem and pattern that can be documented with diffs, though sometimes I save the diffs in case they try to drag me to ANI. But that's me. Montanabw 20:26, 21 May 2015 (UTC)