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Competence and civility issues with Koala15

• Koala15 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

My latest encounter with Koala15 was on the Ted 2 page, where I fixed a fairly simple grammatical error and was blankly reverted on sight . I reverted back with the summary "Unexplained" and he kept edit warring with the summary "Go home, your drunk" . This happened again, until General Ization issued an EW warning on my talk page, and a civility warning on Koala15's page. Koala15 repeatedly refused to apologize or even acknowledge that he was edit warring, dismissing General Ization with sentences such as "Have a sense of humor" and "There is no need for you to get so worked up over this", assuring him that he matter had been resolved, when in fact, it was not - and still is not. I explained very clearly on my talk page why I performed said edit, which prompted Koala15 to respond with a guideline that directly contradicts his edit - which I also explained. However, he refuses to "get it", while writing replies on the grammar level of a twelve year old - which I extensively tried to explain within the same discussion, examples being seeing him "use patently incorrect expressions like "more clearer", open a sentence with "hence", miss punctuation, or consistently not capitalize "I" as in first person", not to mention his first reply to me via edit summary: "Go home, your drunk".

A quick look on Koala15's talk page will reveal that he has been taunting other editors for a while, in an abrasive and unapologetic manner. A few select examples: User talk:Koala15#Reversions... , User talk:Koala15#July 2015 , User talk:Koala15#No , User talk:Koala15#Redirecting . Another example of insisting on edit warring and being rude is here. I would like to finish this nuisance on the Ted 2 page and move on, but I would like to ensure that he doesn't spite revert me again. Please take care of this matter. Misplaced Pages isn't supposed to be about this at all. Thank you very much. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 20:38, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Well i tried to work with you, but you don't seem to wanna work with me. Most of the things you are linking from my talk page are simple misunderstandings. And i don't think you can report anyone for a 'lack of competence". Koala15 (talk) 21:19, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

How ironic... you have just given another dismissive and offensive reply. You are either not realizing it or deliberately insulting me, and neither case is welcome on Misplaced Pages. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 21:24, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

I have had my own run-ins with Koala15, which can be seen at Talk:Penguins of Madagascar and Penguins of Madagascar. Koala15 had initially participated in WP:OWNBEHAVIOR over a copyedit tag about the article with a reason saying "And i do think an IP's suggestion is less valid, cause the majority of them are vandals.". Not all IPs are vandals. Some contribute with no issues at all. I find that comment uncivil and rather a POV statement. They persistently removed the tag until they reached 3 reverts. They stayed quiet on the article, but they removed it again but this time with reasons but not valid ones. There was still WP:Consensus going on in the talk page, which Koala15 dismissed. Instead of participating in WP:Discussion and ask for opinions, they removed the template again. I reverted them, stating that they weren't the user who added the template and to remove it from a user who disagreed with it in the beginning is very questionable. They started edit warring, making 5 reverts within a span of 12 hours, I believe. If they reached the 6th revert, I was going to report them. My warnings can be seen on the user's talk page and PfM's talk page. In terms of Koala15, I do think they make good edits and they help the community, but my only concern is the way they act. Upon disagreements they edit war and so on, it seems. I do agree that saying a user is drunk is uncivil as much as saying to a user they need help. It seems they have had run-ins with other people, excluding me, EauZenCashHaveIt and General Ization. I would suggest a warning about continuing disruptive editing but I'm not sure. Callmemirela (Talk) ♑ 21:34, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Well i apologize, i shouldn't have removed those maintenance templates without asking. And i don't think its fair to say i participated in WP:OWNBEHAVIOR. Koala15 (talk) 21:40, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Per one of the bullets, "An editor reverts a change simply because the editor finds it "unnecessary" without claiming that the change is detrimental." You removed the template with this reasoning: "Uhm, yeah no." which certainly counts as you saying it's unnecessary without valid reasons and follows on of the statements "I can see nothing wrong with the article and there is no need to change anything at all." which you've given the impression (not even at this point) since the beginning and on the talk page. Callmemirela (Talk) ♑ 22:10, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• Note for reviewing admins: here's the last "clean" version of Koala15's talk page, before he panicked and blanked it in order to invalidate the links I brought up earlier: . EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 21:57, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

To be fair, it was time they cleaned their talk page (no offense, Koala15). It was so long, over 200 posts. They kept some stuff, so I don't think it would really matter since it's their talk page. Callmemirela (Talk) ♑ 22:10, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

The timing though... anyway, I've said too much already. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 22:18, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• First, 200 posts going all the way back to 2012 probably needs archiving (and no, archiving isn't just blanking all the warnings) but that's not the issue here. Second, Misplaced Pages:Competence is required which includes social competency. Koala15's edits are problematic. Insulting and being uncivil is a concern. Individuals who cannot corroborate effectively have been shown the door before. I'd say there's civility here but I'll let some others chime on what they think should be done. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 09:50, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
• Having had run-ins with Koala15 before, some of which have been referenced in this post, I thought I'd also chime in. While their edits themselves are not disruptive or problematic, aside from a lack of edit summary usage, Koala15's conduct towards other users is condescending, patronizing and downright rude in some cases. On multiple occasions I have been told by the user that I don't understand Misplaced Pages, ("You don't understand the guidelines") and that I'm a newbie who interprets policies wrong ("I understand that you are new here, but you seem to lack a simple understanding of the rules of Misplaced Pages."), which if anyone else has been on the receiving end of, would know that it's incredibly frustrating. Initially I thought I was the only one to be scolded as deluded by Koala15, but apparently I'm not the only one. A quick CNTRL+F searching for the word "understand" on an old revision of their talk page shows three distinct immediate instances where Koala15 downplayed other editors, brushing them off as not understanding some aspect of the project: I'm not even gonna bother responding to this nonsense, cause you clearly don't even have a basic understanding of Misplaced Pages., "Once again you show that you don't understand the guidelines." and "It sounds like you don't understand Misplaced Pages." and "You are possibly the most clueless editor i have ever met.". While Koala15's talk page only showed a few instances of their incivility, I imagine I wasn't the first to be insulted on their talk page or via edit summaries. A block doesn't seem appropriate to me, and would quite possibly chase Koala15 away, given how bitter and angry they already come off with a near-clean block log, but an assurance from the user that the'll try and be more civil and get off their high horse would be nice. Azealia911 _talk 10:36, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Koala15 care to respond? Azealia911 _talk 10:13, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Well its easy to take my quotes out of context and try to me make me look bad, but in the context of the conversation they were more or less facts. Either way you seem like a good editor, it just took you a while to fully understand the guidelines. Which is fine, it took me a while when i first joined Misplaced Pages. Koala15 (talk) 15:03, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh Koala15, you really are being serious aren't you? You're not even trolling, sigh. I guess that means no chance of an apology for being rude and condescending? (the latter of which is ironically displayed in your most recent reply). Azealia911 _talk 17:21, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Well its definitely not my intention to be "rude and condescending" that's just how I talk. I think its really a matter of how you choose to interpret my words. In the future, i will try to be more thoughtful with my reply's since it bothers everyone so much. Now hopefully we can put this whole thing behind us and move on. Koala15 (talk) 18:12, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

No, we can't... at least not while you maintain these dismissive and unapologetic replies. Each and every one of those reinforces the incompetence claim. You've been told the same thing by everyone here: apologize, show genuine regret, and we will move on. Your telling everyone to move on while sarcastically dismissing every concern raised on this page is nothing short of offensive. Notice that it's you who keeps brushing off every opportunity to make things right. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 23:54, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

I second EauZenCashHaveIt's comments, completely accurate. Koala15, your replies just demonstrate what everyone here is trying to tell you, you just seem to not be hearing us, replying with the behavior and tone that landed you here. Back handed comments like "Either way you seem like a good editor, it just took you a while to fully understand the guidelines" don't do anything but frustrate me, and "I think its really a matter of how you choose to interpret my words" is absurd, so it's our fault for getting offended at what you say? "i will try to be more thoughtful with my reply's since it bothers everyone so much" you say, acting as if we're burdening you with actually being...nice?! Maybe take responsibility for your actions, genuinely apologize (which you have yet to do) and maybe then we can move on. Azealia911 _talk 18:48, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

I thought i did apologize. But yes i apologize if i offended anyone, that was definitely not my intention. Hopefully we can move on now. Koala15 (talk) 18:55, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for apologising Koala15, yep, that's all I needed, take care. Azealia911 _talk 19:06, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

• EauZenCashHaveIt, what exactly are you looking to happen? Koala15 has apologized and said that they will be more thoughtful with their conduct. I say leave it, we've given them the rope, its their choice to hang themselves with more rudeness, land back here, and ultimately be blocked, or lasso their next edits with both hands (yes, that is literally the only analogy I could think of for positive things to do with rope). What else would you propose? Azealia911 _talk 19:14, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

@Azealia911: I am looking for a more permanent solution than an obviously insincere apology with no indication of any behavioral change. But hey, if there are no takers then I guess we both have better things to do than bark up that tree. If you are satisfied then I won't say anything, at least until something new happens. Sadly, I have a feeling I am not mistaken. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 19:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

EauZenCashHaveIt I can also see us returning here, but that's up to Koala15. If required, bring it back here and I'll be the first to recommend implications. Azealia911 _talk 16:31, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

• To me, Koala15's contribution to this new discussion on their Talk page suggests that Koala15 has learned nothing from this process. Still arbitrarily removing maintenance templates from articles without participating in the discussions they reference, a behavior just recently discussed with them here. General Ization 18:34, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Christ, didn't take them long, I really did think they'd be more considerate. General Ization what do you suggest doing? Azealia911 _talk 18:51, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

I really don't know. I know I spent more time than I could really afford to trying to explain to them why this is a problem on their Talk page and here, and what mostly comes back is from the editor is I didn't hear that. I really think it's a competence issue. General Ization 18:57, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Definitely seems like the case, considering their edits aren't specific to one or one set of pages, perhaps a short term block would be appropriate. Azealia911 _talk 19:15, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes, i make mistakes like everyone else, Jeez, i didn't realize my every edit would be under a microscope. Its also strange that you have my talk page watchlisted. Koala15 (talk) 21:25, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Everyone whose edits cause them to be brought to this page will find their subsequent edits to be "under a microscope" for some period of time, especially while the case is unresolved. Most at least make an effort to not engage in the same behaviors during that time. And it's not strange at all – your Talk page was placed on my watch list when you and I discussed the matter above. General Ization 21:29, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

It was my bad, i didn't know what the statute of limitations was on page a split discussion that had no responses. I realized it was a mistake after i did it. I will refrain from making edits like that in the future. I go on Misplaced Pages for fun, and i'm not here to start trouble or anything like that. I'm gonna try to stay out of things like this and mind my own business. Koala15 (talk) 21:42, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Since the template was just placed this month (and says so within the template as any reader sees it), you might reasonably have assumed it had not expired; if you were unsure, you could click the Discuss link and ask. Your "No need for a discussion" comment linked above shows either a lack of understanding or contempt for editing processes here, not confusion over an expiration date. General Ization 21:58, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Since Koala15 has decided to play possum, I am asking the patrolling admins to make the appropriate decision here. This discussion cannot simply vanish as stale. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 20:38, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm definitely seeing Koala15's edits as problematic after going through the diffs. No specific action has been proposed yet, but there may be some lingering hope Koala can improve. My first thought was to just close this with the closer stating that if this kind of issue happens again, that would expedite a block by linking back to that decision. A short term block could be used instead of essentially a warning, but both would take a WP:ROPE approach. Kingofaces43 (talk) 03:16, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Kingofaces43 EauZenCashHaveIt, I'd be more lenient to go with a short-block, maybe as short as two weeks. Earlier on this post, I urged nothing to happen, giving Koala15 the rope, and within two days they were removing merger notices and playing the old apologetic "I'll never do it again" card, when it had been discussed with them before. I'm not sure how many times Koala15 expects us to take their fake apologies before doing anything. The block may be the wake-up call they need to understand their attitude and actions won't be at all tolerated. Azealia911 _talk 17:28, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Agree with Azealia911. In fairness, Koala15 has in fact seemed to "stay out of things like this and mind own business" (as they put it above) for the past week or so, but without a real understanding by Koala15 of why their (past) behavior is a problem, all it will take is one editor to object to/revert one of their edits (rightly or wrongly) and I expect we'll be right back here again. I haven't heard or seen anything here that makes me think that understanding exists as yet. General Ization 20:51, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 23:03, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

My experience with Koala15 at Penguins of Madagascar was similar to User:Tokyogirl79's in February. This wasn't a controversial topic or sensitive BLP. The article's about a movie that features talking commando penguins. After copyediting and cleanup edits, I later added a tag regarding prose issues and a thousand-word quotefarm plus explained the tag on the Talk page. Koala15 reverted with a derisory summary. Days later I restore the tag due to the encyclopedic text and non-free content concerns, and post on his talkpage. He responded dismissively and immediately undid my edit as vandalism. Only after multiple other editors become involved did he finally visit the Talk page.

He then engages in IDHT--continuing to say he doesn't see the problem ("as far as I know this is how the majority of reception sections are written") and asking for suggestions on to how to fix it--despite multiple editors having already provided them, edit-wars over the tag, plus adds quoteboxes making the quotefarm even more glaring. We all assume good faith and spend time explaining. ...Only later to discover it's all happened before. –146.200.32.196 (talk) 14:38, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Proposed short-term block for Koala15

I'll repeat a comment I made above, earlier in this post, I urged nothing to happen to Koala15, giving them the "rope", and within two days they were removing merger notices and playing the old apologetic "I'll never do it again" card, when the same issue had been discussed with them before. I'm not sure how many times Koala15 expects us to take their fake apologies before doing anything. A block may be the wake-up call they need to understand their attitude and actions won't be at all tolerated. The amount of said block can be determined by whoever closes the post.

Pinging all past contributors who may not keep track of the post: EauZenCashHaveIt, General Ization, Callmemirela, Ricky81682, Kingofaces43, Politoed89, and most importantly Koala15.

• Support as proposer – recommending a 2-4 week block. Azealia911 _talk 01:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Striking my support, may sound odd considering I'm the proposer. I've decided to give Koala15 one last chance, their recent behavior has seemed less aggressive and more open to discussion. Weather that lasts is up to them, but I firmly believe they'll reduce their negativity on the site for the foreseeable future. But this isn't an oppose, I'm staying neutral, I think comments from both sides are equally valid. Azealia911 _talk 22:25, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Support Anddd I switch again. As a result of IP 146's overwhelming evidence, showcasing that Koala15 not only breaks rules over and over after being warned, but doesn't seem to care about the ramifications (apparent from the fact he's hardly contributed to the discussion even trying to defend himself and given that the only response to 146.200.32.196's CCI report was whining that he's a victim and trying to get him blocked is a "trend") A six-month block at the least seems appropriate in my eyes. Azealia911 _talk 02:37, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support per preceding thread. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 01:28, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
• Support per proposer's comments (thanks) and my comments above. General Ization 01:32, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
• Comment I don't see why you guys are so against giving me another chance to redeem myself. I admit I made a few mistakes, but I don't think we should overlook all of the good work I have done on here in the past few years. I genuinely promise to have a better attitude when communicating with other editors. I look forward to working with you all again in a positive way. Koala15 (talk) 02:44, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

No one's against your having, or denying you, a chance to redeem yourself. If we were, we would be proposing an indefinite block (which none of us think is appropriate at this time). You will hopefully redeem yourself in any case. But it's precisely because you're thinking of this matter as so trivial that a block is appropriate. Many editors who produce good edits but cannot collaborate constructively with other editors have been blocked before you and many will be blocked after you. Assuming our proposal is implemented, please spend at least some of the time actually reading the many Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines we have tried over several weeks to get you to consider carefully. General Ization 02:52, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't see why a block is necessary, I'm not gonna learn anything that i already haven't. I am gonna make a change in my behavior on here from this day on. And if you catch me breaking any rules, than block me. Take me at my word on this one. Koala15 (talk) 03:02, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

To me, this attitude right here is the epitome of your problem. You don't get to tell us what is necessary and what is not necessary. You can ask, you can argue your case, or anything else that is genuinely collaborative. You are still trying to take the lead and dictate the outcome. This is why the block is proposed. Azealia911, General Ization and others - I am not sure how else I can put it. @Chillum: this should address your concern. Nothing has changed. Literally, nothing. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 06:51, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

• Neutral. I have no preference on a short term block either way. It's clear that this editor will be back to editing in awhile even if they were blocked, so the the important thing for this conversation is to show that they are sitting on their last chance per WP:ROPE if the issue comes up again. Sometimes ANI closures aren't clear on this, so as long as that point gets across, I'm content with just closing this as such. A block will demonstrate that as much as a well-worded close (and may be warranted given the continued behavior that popped up, but I'm not digging further into this to evaluate that), so I'm fine either way. Kingofaces43 (talk) 03:07, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose The block would not be preventative at this point in my opinion. If anyone can explain how it would be preventative I will gladly reconsider. Chillum 03:13, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

My hope is that it will give the editor some (enforced) time, if they are so inclined, to actually learn how to be a better and more collaborative editor, rather than just editing in a vacuum. A "time out" if you will. We've been hearing a lot of I didn't hear that from Koala15, and my personal opinion is that it's because they won't stop editing long enough to actually read policies and guidelines and learn how to and why they should avoid this kind of issue. If they were not so inclined, then indeed all it would do is give them a reason to remember that incivility and disruptive editing have consequences. General Ization 03:23, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose per Chillum, it sounds more a punitive than a preventive block. Also, while Koala certainly had been sometimes rude, most of the differences above just document talk page discussions, but not the actual "incidents", or at least not the whole picture, so it is hard to judge who is really innocent here. Eg, it was linked at least three times (if I have not missed some other links) this talk page discussion as a proof of Koala's problematic behavior, yet it all started by an editor boldly redirecting a Koala's article a few hours after it had been created and then edit warring with Koala to have it redirected without any community discussion. The dispute eventually ended in an AfD, where the article was kept with no votes for deletion outside the nominator. The same with the Ted 2 incident, where the opener of this ANI discussion just showed some incompetence (he, not Koala), first battling to add a bizarre and non-standard "Elsewhere in the United States" in the infobox-date of release , then, after being explained why he was wrong, still trying to remove the premiere date with a poor rationale . Rudeness is not excusable, and Koala should be more collaborative and use the edit summaries to immediately explain his actions and not to attack other editors, but the context is important, and so far the "incidents" do not rise to a level requiring a block IMO. Cavarrone 07:56, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment: it's a shame that the devil's advocate sometimes wears an admin's hat. In their opposing statement, Cavarrone seems to have turned the wheel around and accused me, Koala15's victim, of incompetence, having completely ignored a discussion which I cited earlier. There is a considerable difference between sheer unprovoked rudeness and a stern reaction to sheer unprovoked rudeness, but apparently, to them the two are one and the same. This doesn't look very neutral to me, but I will be more than happy to be proven wrong. EauZenCashHaveIt (I'm All Ears) 23:33, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
• Neutral, as stated in my intial comment above. Whilst I do believe Koala15 has good editing-related intentions, discussion-wise is a mess. I do believe that they are aware of the issue of civility and so on. They are being watched and if any further comments that are deemed uncivil, inappropriate, and so on, they will be reported once more and consequently blocked as they were given chances. And I will take their above comment "If I break the rules, block me." (not exact) seriously. I expect them to learn their mistakes and choose their words carefully instead of being rude and uncalled for. I choose to believe they will stop edit warring and stop engaging in OWNBEHAVIOR and start discussing in good matters. And that their competence here will improve. The way they type and what they say are supporting that issue. Thank you for the ping, Eau (I really don't know your username that easily) Callmemirela {Talk} ♑ 20:50, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
• Support short term block up to a month (uninvolved non admin) Clearly preventive block to stop the ongoing problems that resurface in no time. Perhaps the time off will also bring about a change for the better and prevent this from happening again. AlbinoFerret 19:53, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support a block, oppose short-term. I don't think a short-term block would do anything a previous block and about 85 warnings & interventions did not. Then there's a further 15 or so copyright etc. notices. How many warnings does he get? His response to the CCI notification was typical: brushed off as "old news" (I'm positive the blatant copyvios hadn't been mentioned on his talkpage) and a "trend" of trying to get him blocked. The usual way we deal with those who create long-term copyright problems and refuse to mend their ways despite warnings is an indefinite vacation from editing. In this case I think an indef block is necessary. –146.200.32.196 (talk) 22:39, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
• Strong oppose (uninvolved non admin) A suitable warning is sufficient. If this is Koala15's first ANI report after three years of editing, 75,000 edits and creating an incredible 1,713 new articles (the only one that was deleted has since been recreated), this is NOT a competency issue. With those numbers, 15 copyright warnings are really not indicative of a real pattern of violation. If there is a long-term plagiarizing or copyright issue then that needs to be examined as such with actual diffs. Koala15 has genuinely shown good faith by admitting mistakes were made and asked for another chance. "Go home, you're drunk" is a common Internet meme and only shows humour that should not have been used in this case. Additionally, reporter proposer has graciously accepted apology and opposes is neutral on block. —Мандичка 😜 16:24, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Note: I'm not the actual original reporter, if you were referencing me with "reporter has graciously accepted apology and opposes block" which I have a inkling you were per the civility barnstar you kindly just awarded me with (thanks for that by the way!). I also don't oppose the block, just as I don't support it, staying neutral, however 146.200.32.196's slew of evidence isn't pushing me in the opposing direction to be frank. It should also be noted that you reference their article creations, however most are blank film stubs that list a cast list and minor details, with Koala15 even leaving the plot blank with a "section expansion" tag, leaving someone else to do the work after he's quickly filled in the blanks. I may be mistaken but I swear I'd read somewhere that they'd been warned for this in the past under WP:MASSCREATION grounds. Azealia911 _talk 16:45, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh, oops, hah. Struck through. You still very graciously accepted the apology and went neutral, which is still very nice to see. I don't think this is really a blank stub, just a stub lacking plot, as it's referenced and has a good introduction and everything. Mass creation of blank stubs to me is like that obnoxious sock puppeteer who created hundreds of fish stubs that consisted entirely of the species infobox only and an external link to a Thailand university database in order to linkspam. —Мандичка 😜 20:33, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support a block, oppose short-term. This editor refuses to abide by WP:COPYRIGHT despite warnings stretching back years. This calls for an indef block. Thanks to 146.xx for compiling such a detailed history. Lagrange613 01:47, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Long term disruption and copyvios

Мандичка, I think we're at crossed purposes on one point. The 15 or so (ineffectual) copyright cautions he received isn't the extent of the copyright problems. There're more; here's just one, from February. Better yet, let's look at a fresh example:

 · Pixels (2015 film) (+6,390) at 05:16, 26 July 2015 UTC

 · Source: http://themoviespoiler.com/2015Spoilers/Pixels.html | comparison

 · Lets see who copied whom. Go to the source's page on Facebook, linked on the review

 · It shows the publication time: 10:39, 24 July 2015 – that's in PDT (notice the matching text as well)

 · To be absolutely sure, view source of that bit to get the precise posting time: data-utime="1437759592"

 · Lastly, convert those numbers to human-readable GMT/UTC: 17:39:52, 24 July 2015. TWO DAYS BEFORE HIS EDITING THE ARTICLE.

This was done after this thread began! In short, Koala15 continues to post copyvios and he will NOT stop of his own accord. –146.200.32.196 22:01, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

_{originally posted further up. mv'd for readability}

It's been nearly four days since somebody commented on this, and nobody else seems interested to comment, what's been said seems to be all that'll be said, can this be closed please? With the closer doing what they see fit? Azealia911 _talk 21:06, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Final note to closer: An IP who commented on this post has seemingly been working on an account of Koala15's disruptive behavior, a very detailed account of it to be exact. After checking on it every couple days, work on it seems to have stopped. It may be worth giving it a full read through before making a formal decision on how to proceed with actions upon closure. The account of their behavior can be found here. Azealia911 _talk 23:26, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

That is a very interesting and very detailed log. It hasn't been worked on in two days, and the penultimate edit summary is "kinda done with this", so I hope he or she posts it here in the next few days. Especially since this ANI has been here for going on one month at this point, and the IP said a week ago s/he could have it for us "within 24 hrs". Softlavender (talk) 02:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Softlavender, although I didn't say quite say that. I said I hoped to add additional info and did post a comment (on their recidivist edit-warring). I overran by a day or so on that and apologised for the delay. I do agree the thread's gone on a while, though I only came across it more recently. –146.200.32.196 (talk) 19:27, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

(←) Koala15's behaviour has been tendentious and disruptive for as long as he's edited here. There's a long history of problem reverts, edit warring, refusal to collaborate and accept consensus, and copyvios.

Unfortunately a prior block plenty of polite engagement and warnings all had little effect. He's had warnings and reminders every month since 2012, over 100 of them.() According to User:Cryptic in April, he's a prolific edit-warrer on non-free images, too. Edit summary use in mainspace remains minimal at around 7%, and, when he does use them, they're often uncollegial or deceptive. He refuses to take responsibility for his actions and has made insincere apologies and empty promises.

Those who bring concerns to him are fobbed off on a string of pretexts or he downplays the matter to others as "misunderstandings" or "simple disagreement", ignoring his refusal to discuss it. This was exactly my experience. In content disputes or otherwise he engages in disruptive behavior with edit warring and personal attacks to get what he wants, and shows absolutely no sign he will stop. On at least two occasions it's significantly likely that his hostility drove editors off Misplaced Pages altogether.

On top of this there are attempts to conceal his behaviour and game the system. He'll caution others over conduct he persistently engages in or, say, try to excuse an unexplained revert afterwards saying the edit would've pushed an already long plot over 700 words (when it did so barely or not at all) yet'll copypaste 1200+ word plots from websites and pass them off as his own. He also 1) outright lies that he wrote copyrighted content 2) cherrypicks from guidelines, ignoring clear admonitions against lengthy and excessive quotations plus 3) edit-wars to keep it in, while accusing editors who try to address it of vandalism and, perhaps to evade detection, 4) copypastes from sources close to when published or whose publication times are less obvious.

The community's granted him substantial good faith because it appeared he was also doing good content work. It's now clear this comprises serial copyright violations, quotefarming, close paraphrasing, and plagiarism. It'll likely require a lengthy CCI case. Due to the long-term and recidivist nature of the disruption and copyright violations, in my view an indef-block is appropriate. –146.200.32.196 (talk) 19:28, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

 • Note: Report added at CCI here. -146.200.32.196 21:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Well I admit I'm not a perfect editor, I don't think its fair to take edits from 2-3 years ago out of context to fit the narrative that I'm only here to be disruptive. They are from a time when I was less experienced. I know we got started of wrong but I hope you guys can forgive me. I have good intentions and from now on I'm gonna try to follow guidelines more closely. Koala15 (talk) 15:29, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

The narrative is not that you are only here to be disruptive. The narrative is that you have continued to engage in unconstructive and/or prohibited behaviors that you engaged in 2-3 years ago and have been warned about multiple times since then, and that you either are unable to or don't care to learn, despite two to three years of OJT, what is and isn't appropriate under Misplaced Pages policies. As you yourself put it earlier, " not gonna learn anything that already haven't", which is what's causing us to look at this from the standpoint of competence, not just arrogance. General Ization 23:49, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Topic Ban violation by User:TripWire

TripWire was topic banned by Future Perfect at Sunrise for 6 Months from all edits related to Pakistani politics and Indian/Pakistani conflicts, for a period of 6 months.

His block still exists. Still he violates ban and defend himself with comments like this

1, 2, 3, 4, 5.112.79.39.220 (talk) 11:56, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

First Sir, have the courage to use your actual ID to report me. I dont think, a sock should be allowed to report registered users. Anyways, I have explained this earlier and will try it again; my topic ban relates to Pakistani politics and Indian/Pakistani conflicts. Now, I dont understand how does editing a page regarding a terrorist organization Lashkar-e-Taiba falls under Pakistani politics and how does a terror attack in India 2015 Gurdaspur attack which (initially) had nothing to do with Pakistan has to do with Indo-Pak conflict? From what I understand is banned from Indo-Pak Conflicts means is that I cannot edit articles like Siachen Conflict, Kargil Conflict, 1965 Indo-Pak War etc where actual war/conflict is taking place.

The edit I made at Gurdaspur Attack was 'As per MHA sources, 2 x GPS, 3 x AK-47, 10 x magazines and 2 x China-made grenades were recovered from the terrorists' i.e. added just the basic info which was non-controversial. I was reported to Admin FPAS talk page by showing only one edit to made it look like as if I am doing something wrong. FPAS being busy responded quickly without actually confirming that I was violating my topic ban as he did not review the entire issue as he was committed elsewhere. Resultantly, I asked him a simple question:

So what you want to say is that in future ANY terrorist attack on Indian soil (which is condemnable), even like that carried out in Manipur by rebels in Mayanmar, will automatically fall within the scope of Indo-Pak conflict, because it ultimately will end up being supposedly supported by some terror group linked to Pakistan? This sir is a huge statement. Since when did Admins at Misplaced Pages have started speaking the language of Indian External Affairs Ministry?

As FPAS is still busy, he hasnt responded to the comment. So, I ask here again, will any future terror attack taking place in India be taken as a conflict between India and Pakistan? Or may be till the time India does not accuse Pakistan for orchestrating the attack, I could edit the page as till then it would not have become a conflict between the two countries, because the time between a terror attack in India and India accusing Pakistan for the same is with hours? Please explain? If it is the former, so what editors at Misplaced Pages want to say is that even before pakistan's hand is established behind an attack, all terror attacks in India will by default be assumed to be supported by Pakistan and thus by this definition, all such pages will fall under the purview of Indo-Pak Conflict, and thus within my topic-ban?

As for LeT, how does a page related to a terror org, like LeT, like the LTTE in Sri Lanka, ISIS in Yemen, Sikh Seperatists and numerous others in India etc are all linked to the politics of the respective countries. I am confused and seek advice. If I am told and clarified by the respected Admins that by the edits being quoted against me, I was infact violating by ban, I'll happily admit to my mistake as I did not consider doing so was wrong, and will refrain from such edits in future. Thanks.

Lastly, or the Indian socks and tag-teamers who wants to show that I cant live with my topic ban, my edit history, post my topic ban begs to disagree:

• Territorial claims in the Arctic
• My Trip Back to the Dark Side (film)
• Kim Yo-jong
• Chappie (film)
• Frequencies (film)
• Sabeen Mahmud
• Benjamin Sisters
• Javed Iqbal Ramday
• Central Superior Services of Pakistan—TripWire  12:21, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: This needs admins attention. This user has been blatantly violated topic ban several times even after several warnings. One can read latest advice by admin FPAS User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise#Topic ban violation. He is busy. --Human3015  12:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Thankyou sir, for repeating the 'same' words as by the IP one more time. You think repeating it will make it true? BTW, you claimed that I have "been blatantly violated topic ban several times", so please why dont you tell the admins when was the last time I have edited a topic which you for now presumingly believe falls within my topic ban? As I have requested you earlier, that you need to stop lying and exaggerating the 'facts'—TripWire  13:00, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

You mentioned it itself, sir. You think that India thinks that all terrorist attacks in India are related to Pakistan, and because of that, it is part of an India-Pakistan conflict, and this means your topic ban applies. Besides, topic bans are broadly construed. Violating topic bans may result in an extension of that ban, a block, including an indefinite block... If you think a topic ban is unjustified, don't violate it, or try to circumvent it, but appeal it.--Müdigkeit (talk) 14:00, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

So sir, what you are trying to say is that because any attack in India, will automatically, by default, without any investigation, without any proof, without any recourse to any legal proceedings will have to be understood (internationally and among ALL editors of Misplaced Pages and Admins) to be orchestrated by Pakistan, so it falls under Indo-Pak Conflict? WOW! I will say that same thing what i said to FPAS, ' that's a huge statement sir', not to mention a clear violation of WP:NPOV and numerous other wiki polices. BTW, would the attack carried out by Manipur Rebels in Manipur, India recently by the rebels operation from the Indo-Mayanmar Border, to which India responded by carryingout a hot pursuit operation inside Mayanmar, also included in the definition of topic-ban provided by you? Thanks —TripWire  14:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Important Question to Admins (and sock IP)

I am being accused of violating by Topic Ban related to Indo-Pak Conflict pages by editing 2015 Gurdaspur attack page. But please consider:

• 2015 Gurdaspur attack occurred at 5:30am on 27 July 2015.
• The 2015 Gurdaspur attack was created on same day at 08:44 am
• Till then it was an unfortunate attack on Indian soil, no terror group claimed responsibility, no one knew who was behind the attacks.
• Later it was known that one of the attackers seemed like a Sikh, and thus the possibility of Khalistan Movement surfaced.
• I made my first edit at the page at 02:28, 28 July 2015, approximately 24 hrs after the attack.
• Till then Pakistan had not been brought into the mix, so the question, how and when did this page started falling withing the purview of Indo-Pak Conflict, a topic I am banned to edit?
• The first mention of Pakistan at the page was made at 21:44, 28 July 2015. This was usual Indian rehtoric of accusing Pakistan everytime a terror attack happens in India. This time it was a shot in the dark as unlike let's say Mumbai Attacks where India had a confession of Ajmal Kasb, thereby giving credence to the Indian claim, this time the accusation was blank, vague and to date unproven. So the second question: Did this ACCUSATION make 2015 Gurdaspur attack page an Indo-Pak Conflict topic, may be? If so, then I would respectfully ask the Admins the same question I asked from FPAS at his talk page, but I am not going to repeat it here.
• Please, I request, help me understand how (and when) does a terror attack in India becomes a topic of Indo-Pak Conflict? What's the criteria, how should I gauge that a page I am editing is a Conflict page, because the line is quite thin here and personal vendettas quite high. Thanks.—TripWire  14:03, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Read above comment, you disagree on "Pakistan is behind Gurudaspur bomb blasts" thats why it is part of India-Pakistan conflict. And what about your edits on NGO Lashkar-e-Taiba? I demand strict action on this user. --Human3015  14:10, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

You, as been highlighted numerous times, are an exaggerator and a manipulator. You are again lying by saying that I "disagree on Pakistan is behind Gurudaspur bomb blasts", can you prove it sir? Which edit of mine made you think that I am against it? Did I remove ANY info related to this? Did I challenge this accusation by India? The only thing I changed in the line quoted by you is that India 'alleged' that Pakistan is behind the attacks, what's wrong with that? Isnt it an accusation as of now or you as per habitual WP:NPOV pusher wants to state this as a FACT? The other edit I made was to add the fact that Indian authorities mistakenly thought one of the attackers to be a Sikh, is that wrong to? Is it not factual or supported by Indian sources? Or by highlighting that India retracted a mistake well in time and instead accused Pakistan, didnt I actually support the Indian POV as opposed to your accusation that I am against "Pakistan is behind Gurudaspur bomb blasts"? Wake up Sir! You in your frustration against me, have crossed all bounds of morality.—TripWire  14:34, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Lashkar-e-Taibar is clearly related to Pakistan, so it is a forbidden article. A topic ban is a topic ban. Not from an article, but from everything related to that topic, broadly construed.--Müdigkeit (talk) 14:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Related to Pakistan, not Pakistani Politics. Broadly construed is OK, but making it so broad that anything which has a word Pakistan in it is banned for me is not. If that had been the case, FPAS could have very easily said in by Ban that I am not allowed to edit ANY topic related to Pakistan (alone). Infact, that's the clarification I am trying to seek here from respected Admins. I can be wrong, and I dont mind if I am corrected by Admins.—TripWire  14:37, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Immediately after his ban, TripWire filed a request to lift his ban, which was not even replied and ultimately rejected. You were banned for India-Pakistan conflicts which includes Lashkar e taiba as this terror group launches attack against India every week.112.79.39.111 (talk) 14:40, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Funny. Ref: as this terror group launches attack against India every week: and this far-fetched accusation makes it a topic of Pakistani Politics/Conflict? Sir, excellent attempt at pushing a WP:NPOV. BTW, did you muster the courage to login? Admins sirs, is it fair to be reported by a sock/SPA? —TripWire  14:51, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

While I will defer to admins more familiar with the India-Pakistan area and topic bans more generally, this does appear to me to be a violation of the topic ban. Edits such as this and this are clearly on topics related to India-Pakistan conflicts. It doesn't really matter, in my opinion, whether it had yet been confirmed that the attacks were carried out by people from Pakistan; I think the fact that a link was being considered brings the topic within the India-Pakistan conflicts topic. Sam Walton (talk) 14:47, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

@TripWire: If an article mentions both Pakistan and India and covers violence or religious strife or political or military wranglings you are topic-banned from that article. Lashkar-e-Taiba emphatically falls under your topic ban. --NeilN 14:49, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm...So sir I have been wrong all along?? Darn! May be I was taking the ban wording too literally. —TripWire  14:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

@TripWire: It's not a good idea to test the boundaries of a topic ban. If there's any doubt, ask an admin familiar with the matter before you start editing. But these queries should be reserved for non-obvious cases. Lashkar-e-Taiba is an obvious case. --NeilN 15:05, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

I do find it hard to believe that you would think your topic ban didn't cover articles like Lashkar-e-Taiba or in conflict-related articles where a link between India and Pakistan is being discussed. Sam Walton (talk) 15:13, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Sir, all along my argument regarding LeT had been that it did not fell under "Pakistani Politics", now it seems that it is connected to Indo-pak Conflict?! Ouch!—TripWire  15:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Problems with the ban appeal

I noticed someone mentioned a denied ban appeal.(https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive177#Result_of_the_appeal_by_TripWire Ban Appeal) And then I noticed the following: Future Perfect at Sunrise didn't answer or explain his actions in the appeal despite notice, and the appeal was automatically archived after 7 days. This is disappointing. Future Perfect at Sunrise was active during that time. This behaviour seems to be contrary to WP:ADMINACCT.--Müdigkeit (talk) 15:17, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Sir, thanks for saying what I couldnt. I am being continoulsy mocked that I didnt even worth a reply on my ban appeal and thus (ironically) my ban was justified. Sir Neil has suggested that I should have asked an Admin if I was in doubt 9which I was). Seriously, I may be wrong in saying so, but I will not fall down to a level where I approach the same admin who did not even bother to reply to my appeal. On a seond thought, I should have approached FPAS, but whereas I do enjoy my edits at Misplaced Pages, but it is not a matter of life or death to me. I exercised my right of appeal, it went unanswered, which in itself was insulting, if taken in that sense, I am sorry, if resultantly I didnt feel comfortable to interact with the same Admin. I could have also approached another admin, but for the same reason, I found it rather belittling that I am knocking at a door, only to find out that it remains unopened. The only reason behind my latest interaction with FPAS at his talk page was because I was forced by Human3015 to respond there when he reported me to FPAS. BTW, FPAS didnt even then respond to me, but made a hasty reply to Human3015 alone, which again was taken with a heavy heart by me. But still, I understand that being an Admin is a thankless job, and I hold no grudges. We are all here to improve this website, will try to do that, till I am permitted to do that. Thanks —TripWire  15:31, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

• @TripWire: If someone has not replied to your ban appeal then it doesn't mean that you are allowed to violate your topic ban. That can be different discussion and should not be discussed on this thread, @Müdigkeit: this is the issue of WP:AE. Here we are discussing current topic ban violations by TripWire. --Human3015  16:44, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Actually I think this is related to that. TripWire had the right to appeal, and it is obvious that right was not fully exercised or granted as no one even replied on the thread. I think we all ought to sit back and re-visit the original ban. It would be good if the previous appeal could be de-archived and the involved admin/editors could add in their thoughts. After all, it's meant to be preventable, not punitive. And to be honest, TripWire isn't really doing anything different than what the POV pushers on the other side of the fence are doing. Perhaps sanctions should be applied equally. Mar4d (talk) 23:25, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mar4d: It is not just you who thinks in that way, even I wanted that his appeal should have been replied, I said this in my long advice on TripWire's talk page see last line. But apparently his appeal could have been refused. His behaviour is such that even you yourself describing his behaviour as "POV Pusher". He has done many mistakes even after his topic ban. Even if we de-archive or re-open his case still again no one will comment on his appeal. Or even if someone comment on it still it will end up in deny. It will hurt TripWire again. And I agree on you that "POV pushers" of "both" sides should be banned. These POV pushers are ruining Misplaced Pages. When we are busy in any project these POV pushers and Socks unnecessarily attracts our attention and we end up in wasting our time and we also lose our interest in that topic. --Human3015  02:16, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Human3015, please stop patronizing me. What you call advice was more of a mockery whereby you showed your true colors. You were the first one to 'enjoy' that my ban appeal went out without a discussion. Stop lying for once!—TripWire  06:19, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Two cents (uninvolved editor)

This is my personal take on the issue, perhaps a bit biased. I just wanted to see if the latest had been added to the article and went there today. I have not edited the article in any way which may show bias towards anyone. I am assuming here that that the reporter is human3015 as there is almost no chance that a person who has not edited Misplaced Pages knows about our ANI and reporting process.

As far as Human is concerned I would like to say that perhaps he could have waited for a couple of more reverts before reporting, but having said that he is quite within his rights to report and if he follows the law to the letter no one should blame him, even though I personally would have given tripwire some "rope".

On the other hand the total meltdownesque tirade from Tripwire seems to be such a huge huge huge amount of overkill I cannot even describe it in words. Had he just come here and apologized for editing during the TB, i am sure this would have ended in a nice "Ok, no harm no foul dude" and a cool wiki thread. but alas, such escalation! I'd like to recommend that an admin takes just one minute from his time and tell Tripwire that his TB includes everything that has even a tiny bit of connection with Pak-India Politics. That is what the term "broadly" means. And that another incident of violation will "upgrade" the TB to 9 months. I think that should end this for the time being. FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 05:45, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Human3015 and Sock IPs

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

While we are at it, I'd like to make few observations:

• Human3015 has a weiered habit of showing emphathy with established socks and vice versa.
• I wonder why is it that whenever I have been in discussion with Human3015, a sock or a SPA appears from nowhere and attempts at disrupting my contributions. The fact that I have been reported by a (sock) IP for topic-ban vio here is a point to note. Especially, when Human3015 falsely and in pure bad-faith reported me for 3RR vio, and when it was seen in the discussion there that it is not going to yield results as per Human's wishes, this socks appears and reports me here.
• Point to note is that the last edit I made at LeT page was at 00:23, 3 August 2015 and the last edit made by me on 2015 Gurdaspur attack was at 20:30, 2 August 2015. Thereafter when I was told that I might be violating my topic-ban, I stopped from editing both the topics. But, still I get reported by the sock IP today on 5 August (after it was seen that the false report against me for 3RR was likely to backfire, with a likelihood of some action against Human as he used a 2-days-old edit by me to force compile 3RR volition)??

• This is not the first time this has happened. I was reported by Human for SPI upon 'suggestion' by an established sockmaster. Human, instead of ignoring the sock, gladly acknowledged the Sock's suggestion and obliged by reporting me for SPI. The result of SPI was also not as per Human's wishes, but no action was taken against Human for accusing me of socking that too upon suggestion by a sock - fathom the irony!

• Just yesterday, when Human and I were having a discussion at Talk:Desi daru, and when Human was unable to prove his point, another sock/SPA appeared from nowhere and vandalized my talk page twice while I was amidst the discussion with Human.

• I wonder why is it that established socks/sockmaster always approach Human for help? Is it just a coincidence that socks are in communication with Human, that socks recommend to him to report me for false SPI, that I get reported by a sock IP again here on the eve of sanctions on Human for falsely reporting me for 3RR? Food for thought.—TripWire  18:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
  • If you want to allege that another user is a sockpuppet then file an SPI. Sam Walton (talk) 18:58, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: I don't know from where these IPs appear whenever I have discussion with TripWire. My talk page has always been attacked by both Pro-Indian and Pro-Pakistani IPs. And both of these group of IPs are socks of different sockmasters. As usual TripWire told you half story, now I will tell you another story, , , Here one IP is abusing me in local language saying "What conspiracy you did to get me topic banned for 6 months?, did you e-mail admin FPAS to provoke him to get me topic banned?. Don't touch Pakistan related articles for 6 months till my ban is over". I will not translate abusive words. I have never even thought that it is sock of TripWire, I have not even complained or discussed it with anyone. I just left this matter. --Human3015  21:24, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

My take on this

As an uninvolved editor, it appears to me that there is some dispute over whether an incident is considered India/Pakistani conflict, and therefore covered by the TB, or not. There is a reason that the AE/DS motion is worded "all pages related to India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, broadly construed" and it is to avoid this type of confusion. And yes, I'm prepared to accept that there was some confusion, or at least controversy, over whether the Gurdaspur attack constitutes India/Pakistani conflict or is in fact Indian domestic terrorism. I have no opinion on that matter, but I would suggest that the wording of the topic ban is changed to include "all pages related to India and/or Pakistan, both broadly construed" so that TripWire, and all other editors, are clear he is to stay aware from this area for at least six months. Unfortunately, this paints with a broad brush but I believe doing so is necessary for the avoidance of doubt and to prevent this type of dispute in future. Djonesuk (talk) 11:01, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

IP edits to New Jersey Devils related articles

Look at this history. We have several IPs making changes and several established editors reverting them.

The IP edits look cack-handed at best, but not really vandalism. I see no attempt to discuss it... although I get the impression that the established users have been here before and think this may be socks of people who have been causing problems before.

Anyone familiar with the history and want to intervene?

Yaris678 (talk) 13:28, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

For relevant history, see this previous incident report which led to an editor block, Talk:1994–95 New Jersey Devils season and the discussion threads to which the last two sections link, and Talk:1993–94 New York Rangers season to see many attempts at discussion and the stream of edit requests that have been made which lack specific details (the talk page history contains more edit requests that have been deleted). isaacl (talk) 17:38, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Block evading user who has been at it for years. It has been pretty much wack-a-mole with him. -DJSasso (talk) 23:50, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:Topic ban for Aubmn

Whether here or WP:AN is the best place for this, I propose a topic ban for Aubmn (talk · contribs) with regard to the Marie Antoinette article. Aubmn's problematic editing at that article has been documented by various editors. For a WP:Diff-link to the evidence, see here and keep scrolling downward. Each section following that is one about Aubmn's problematic editing. And that problematic editing includes WP:Copyright violations, falsifying text, hard-to-read text, WP:Edit warring, WP:Socking and WP:IDIDN'THEARTHAT behavior. NebY and I, especially NebY, first tried to deal with all of it. Then more editors took notice and tried to deal with all of it. Eventually, Saddhiyama brought the matter to WP:ANI earlier this year; see Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive880#User:Aubmn and sockpuppetry. Since then, Blue Indigo (talk · contribs) has been trying to help out with the article and deal with Aubmn's problematic editing; he brought the matter to my talk page, as seen jhere and here, and I eventually suggested that he bring the case here to WP:ANI himself. Seeing that NeilN has WP:Full protected the article (see this link), and that Blue Indigo is understandably stressed because of Aubmn's problematic editing and that NeilN has been clear that he will block either of them for WP:Edit warring, I decided to follow through with reporting this case here. From Aubmn (talk) 11:45, 7 August 2015 (UTC)what I have seen of Aubmn's behavior, I don't think he should be editing Misplaced Pages at all. Flyer22 (talk) 01:23, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Unfortunately Flyer22 has a very negative attitude from the first with me, more than a year ago I began editing Marie Antoinette article who was on the watchlist of Flyer and who was left incomplete since 2012 and relying on one source Fraser, I was still an editor who didn't know about copyright s rules or a lot of rules in Wikepedia, I removed myself all the copyright violations and began editing by counting first on Fraser and completing the article specially the revolutionary period who was largely left unfinished since 2012. After that many editors came to work on the article , unfortunately the negative behaviour of Neb and Flyer22 let many of these editors to feel empowered and they wanted me completely out of the article after first proposing to work with me; krobison 13 was the first one, he himself acknowledge that he knew little about the subject , yet flyer and Neb wanted to give him complete control over the article, when we were left alone without the negativity and harrasment of Flyer and Neb, I was able to work with krobison who made hundred of edits in the article without interference from me, we have your differences who where solved when Krobison wanted to remove the 14 of July the most important event of that period. Blue Indigo refused to work with me from the beginning although I proposed to him twice on his talk page , he reverted 90% of my edits, I accepted 90 % of his edits (see per talk page). Aubmn (talk) 02:03, 7 August 2015 (UTC) I will talk of the last edit about the necklace scandal, Blue Indigo removed my contribution completely while I kept his contribution who was not based on the role of MA and when I tried to add my contribution without removing his, he removed it again as he felt empowered by Flyer22 (see SoS, SoS 2) on Flyer talk page, in addition to all that Blue Indigo compared me to a panzer division on Flyer22 talk page with it reference to Nazism without any reaction from Flyer22, know Flyer is saying Blue Indigo is stressed. Aubmn (talk) 02:14, 7 August 2015‎ (UTC) I welcomed the involvement of NeilN who is an objective person trying to find solutions in the Talk Page; not behaving and taking a negative attitude like Flyer22. Finally I want to say I committed mistakes sometimes out of ignorance of the rules sometimes because of anger but the fact remained , I completed a major article on a major personality which was left incomplete since 2012 and second I listened to many editors including Neb who told me the main weakness of this article is on it reliance on one source Fraser, I provided a solution to this problem by adding dozen of references to this article using the most important historians of MA like Castelot, Lever, Zweig and many others. I m not stressed like Blue Indigo because edit warring was mainly from his side and I believe in talking, cooperation and compromise ,,as an example I opened a new section in Napoleon article about education and I reached compromises with the editors there who were behaving in a positive way. Finally yes I committed some mistakes,I panicked sometimes not knowing about the rules but my intentions were good and positive, in the end I provided information's for a major article unfinished since 2012 and I removed its main weakness by giving it many sources instead of one. Know I trust NeilN and I m ready to follow any arbitration decided by him or her on MA talk page.Thank you.Aubmn (talk) 03:18, 7 August 2015 (UTC) Aubmn (talk) 02:45, 7 August 2015‎ (UTC)

Note: Anyone wanting to know how I initially addressed Aubmn can see User talk:Flyer22/Archive 17#Aubmn: Marie Antoinette article. Judge whether or not that matches up with his assertion that "Flyer22 has a very negative attitude from the first with me." As seen there, I asked him clearly about copyright violations, and he was dishonest. Unless he didn't know what copyright violations are, he should have known what I meant. The WP:Copyright violations policy is just adhering to what the law does. Yes, there are very likely WP:Copyright violations still in that article because of Aubmn. And any negative attitude I've had toward Aubmn has concerned his WP:Disruptive editing. Feel free to look for any way that I have been inappropriate with Aubmn. I will ignore his mischaracterization of me and others in this thread from here on out. I'll leave the rest of this to the community to handle. Flyer22 (talk) 02:49, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support. The talk page shows a long history of problematic edits including copyright violations, and strong evidence of WP:OWN. The claim that text is "information" and therefore sacrosanct, is a hallmark of POV-pushers. I think a topic ban is in order. Guy (Help!) 08:54, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

First about copyright violations,when I knew the law, I removed not only those I put which Flyer and Neby acknowledged they couldn't find them, I also removed hundred of copyright violations and paraphrasing from the test which were present before my contributions.

Second what is called ownership is first simply the absence of many editors for years to deal with this article, krobison 13 made hundred of edits without any interruption from me, Blue Indigo made hundred of edits who were left unchanged, the problem is like the diamont necklace show he removed my contribution, I kept his.

Third, I added many references to an article who was counting on one reference.

Fourth, frankly I 'm tired, I have a very beautiful life outside Misplaced Pages, if 'm banned I'll stop my work as an editor and concentrate more on my real life which is the cornstone of my existense, because I never spent more than one hour or two on Wikepedia everyday; perhaps that is the best for me, anyway whatever happen I want to thank NeilN and all who have shown objectivity.Thank you all Aubmn (talk) 10:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Seriously? You have such a single purpose here than if you can't edit that singular article, you'd quit? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 10:57, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support. From the MA Talk page, this appears to be an ongoing problem that should have ended months ago. Lucky he isn't getting proposed for another block, which apparently would have been well warranted. Softlavender (talk) 11:02, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

My friend Ricky I 'm tired, what do you expect, I finished a major article who was incomplete and depending on one source; I was lucky that I was able to complete it and also to provide many sources so the article don't 'depend on one source. I 'm not very interested in adding a few lines to other articles who are almost complete and to face the same scenarios. Unfortunately this is the kind of policy that is driving editors away from Misplaced Pages which is also losing a lot of readers. I' m going to Monte Carlo with my beautiful girlfriend and I don't need all of this. Thank you for all,a last notice NeilN said on MA talk page flyer22 put words from her mouth, I think that resume the person.Aubmn (talk) 11:45, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support topic ban as proposed, per WP:CIR and WP:DISRUPTSIGNS.- MrX 16:29, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

OK making the decision easier and making you not loose more time, first I want to thank all people of good faith who collaborated with me, second unfortunately Misplaced Pages is losing it appeal and all studies are showing that the reading of its articles is going down in a very dramatic way ; I 'm logging myself out of Misplaced Pages as an editor, I m not like Blue indigo afraid of being quicked out., I have a life better outside Gentlemen and Ladies, anyway wish you luck. Aubmn (talk) 17:24, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support up to 6 month topic ban (uninvolved non admin) There is some problematic behaviour. Suggest 6 months is long enough for this relatively inexperienced editor to try and learn more about WP and to stay out of trouble. I would also suggest that they learn not to focus on one specific article. AlbinoFerret 19:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support _{(was involved)} Whenever an editor tries to do any sort of substantial and badly needed work on the article (and not just if they tamper with the repeated and embarassingly banal descriptions of Marie Antoinette's feelings and suffering), Aubmn returns and reverts them edit by edit, then inserts more text that further obscures the subject. NebY (talk) 21:11, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support For reasons already described by the editors above. But I particularly agree with Guy, article ownership and POV pushing is troublesome here. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 08:05, 10 August 2015 (UTC

• Support_{(was involved)} for the reason that it is impossible to work with Aubmn or have a sensible conversation with him - (although I ignore if the fact that my last contributions of 7 August, which provoked the protection of the article, should keep me from voting in this case.) Aubmn automatically rejects the work of others, also uses the 3-revert rule in a calculated manner to accomplish his goal of the day: the elimination of others. He has set up his own censorship over the Marie Antoinette article, allowing the contribution of others only after he has put his stamp of approval on it, or reworded it beyond recognition, sometimes contradicting the very reference he is bringing to prove his point. It is not necessary to go into any further details: the article talk page and revision history speak for themselves. I also want to answer Aubmn here as to his accusation (above) of my calling him a *N*: I never used the word, only compared his removal of huge blocks of vital information from the Napoleon article to the tactics of a Panzerdivision, using military terminology to describe his elimination of military actions - mention of battles - from an article concerning a military man, his accomplishments, his victories and his defeats. --Blue Indigo (talk) 12:20, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Disruption and harassment by 8.39.228.13

8.39.228.13 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

This IP made their first edit to Shooting of Samuel DuBose on 30 July. They had 25 total edits prior to that, going back to September of last year (assuming they are all the same person). Everything was cool for awhile after they joined the DuBose article. Then, around 3 August, their editing became very disruptive, with a lot of aggressive reverting and without waiting to build consensus for disputed changes. In article talk, I asked them to "Slow ... down. Please." When they continued, I issued a template warning for DE on 3 August, and another 12 hours later, referring to their then-current style as "steamrolling the article". I am not providing diffs for the events up to this point because they are not relevant to this report. Even if my handling of the situation was incorrect, and I don't feel it was, that would not justify or even mitigate what has followed.

The IP's editing style then became less aggressive, and I have had no complaints about it since then. However, the IP started an article talk thread about biased editing by other editors, specifically me, and was advised by another editor to observe WP:AGF. Their tone in discussion has often been confrontational, with comments like, You've been proven wrong. Care to edit the article to reflect the truth, or should I? I won't say the IP is WP:NOTHERE, but they are not here to collaborate peacefully and cooperatively.

But the main reason I'm making this report is that the IP has continued their article talk criticisms of me, which are both unfounded and inappropriate, amounting to harassment. They have accused me in article talk of "dominating" discussion and POV-pushing, of "whitewashing". They started a second thread in article talk specifically about me, presenting statistics that apparently show that I have the highest edit count for that article and its talk page, as if that's something to be ashamed of (I'll take their word for it, as I didn't even bother to look at the statistics due to the patently ridiculous nature of the assertion). The thread was promptly closed as inappropriate use of article talk. As far as I know there is no limit on discussion on an article talk page, nor does the community recognize a concept of over-participation. I certainly do not exhibit any WP:OWN behavior in that article or any other, and I have never had any complaints about POV-pushing. The IP has repeatedly been advised by me and others to take any misconduct complaints about me to this page or user talk, but they have not done so. As far as I know, they are completely alone in their opinions about my participation, and that includes multiple experienced editors actively involved with the article, including MrX, Gaijin42, and Cwobeel. In any case, I'm not here to defend myself, this report is not about me, and any user is free to open a separate thread about my behavior.

Yesterday I posted on the IP's user talk page about the harassment, and also about WP:NOTFORUM after they took an RfC into off-topic discussion about bias in Misplaced Pages editing. I suggested that they consult an uninvolved third party about the whole issue. The response was more angry accusations and this threat: If you do not cease your whitewashing, I plan on compiling a list of specific instances of whitewashing in that article, publishing it in a separate Talk section in that article, and inviting others whose edits you have repeatedly reverted in other similar articles that you have disproportionately dominated (for example, in Shooting of Michael Brown), to weigh in with their feedback.

The IP's behavior is completely inappropriate, they have been an overall disruptive presence at an article that enjoyed relative peace before they arrived, warnings have not had any effect, and I don't see this situation getting any better by itself. So I am requesting a short block.

1 - Article talk: Starting a talk thread: "Biased application of 'alleged'" naming me as the main culprit

2 - Article talk: "You've been proven wrong. Care to edit the article to reflect the truth, or should I?"

3 - Article talk: Starting a talk thread: "Disproportionate number of edits made by Mandruss"

4 - Addition to the above thread: "I should note that your editing of this Talk page is even more disproportionate."

5 - Article talk: Direct accusation of biased editing against me, in the RfC

User talk:8.39.228.13 ―Mandruss ☎ 04:31, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

If not a block, the IP should at least receive a final warning to stop personalizing content disputes, and to use to proper channels for addressing alleged conduct issues. Secondary concerns are Original research and WP:NOTAFORUM, which the IP has been previously warned about as well. - MrX 15:23, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Mandruss is one of these editors that always collaborate and engage in useful discussions, we should have more like them. This IP editor, on the other hand, arrived to that article with an aggressive and un-compromising lack of good faith. The IP editor needs a super strong warning, with the hope they reconsider their approach. - Cwobeel (talk) 14:27, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

MrX, Cwobeel - can any of you provide diffs to substantiate the claim that my editing was "very disruptive, with a lot of aggressive reverting and without waiting to build consensus for disputed changes." - 8.39.228.13 (talk) 15:51, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Why are you asking me? I never made any such claims.- MrX 16:10, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I see that, thank you. In response to your question, I'm asking you because those claims are central to this dispute, and you have commented on this dispute in support of Mandruss's position that I be disciplined. - 8.39.228.13 (talk) 16:19, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

WTF? Who is saying that your editing was disruptive. What I said that your interventions at that article talk page show a WP:BATTLE behavior and total lack of good faith. Maybe time for you to listen and heed the advice. - Cwobeel (talk) 19:46, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

And I have already clearly explained why there are no diffs for that. I'll try one more time, since the IP apparently has a hearing problem. First, that DE is not a basis for this complaint; I am not seeking a sanction as a result of that. The DE ceased roughly four days ago and sanctions are preventative not punitive. There is no question that I issued the template warnings, I don't need diffs to show that I did, and the only reason I mentioned that was that I believe it explains why the IP has been preoccupied with me since then. Second, even if my template warnings were inappropriate under those circumstances, that does not justify or excuse the IP's subsequent behavior. There is no justifiable repeated misuse of article talk, no justifiable repeated WP:FORUM discussion, no justifiable repeated confrontational talk behavior, and no justifiable harassment. That's my last attempt, if the IP still doesn't hear me, they never will. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:21, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Mandruss, you have claimed that my "editing became very disruptive, with a lot of aggressive reverting and without waiting to build consensus for disputed changes." This is a falsehood. Not only did I not commit "a lot" of aggressive reverting, I didn't commit any. In fact, I intentionally refused to become involved in an edit war, instead taking my concerns to the Talk page. When I added a relevant, sufficiently-sourced phrase to the article about one of its subjects committing a violent crime, you whitewashed it. Now you want discussion of that sentence whitewashed from Talk, and you want me whitewashed from Misplaced Pages. Please either substantiate your claim that I have made disruptive editing or aggressive reverting, or edit your comment above to remove it. - 8.39.228.13 (talk) 16:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I am accountable to the community, not to you. You seem to harbor the mistaken impression that no sanction can occur unless I satisfy your endless demands for more information, responding to your every obtuse point or argument, while you repeatedly fail to hear what I have said. That's not how it works here. As I said earlier, below (more hearing problem), others are free to ping me if more information is required from me. Your arguments are unimpressive and this is my last comment to you in this report. ―Mandruss ☎ 16:51, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

You are bullying me, in direct violation of WP:BULLY. Specifically, you have made a no-edit order contrary to policy , and you have attempted to unjustifiably use the Misplaced Pages system (in this case, an ANI) to block me from editing. Also, you have claimed that my "editing became very disruptive, with a lot of aggressive reverting and without waiting to build consensus for disputed changes", a complete falsehood. By lying, you have violated Misplaced Pages guidelines on civility (WP:IDENTIFYUNCIVIL). - 8.39.228.13 (talk) 20:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

For an editor with about 50 edits, you surely can wikilawyer. Go do something useful, for Pete's sake, and stop wasting everybody's time. - Cwobeel (talk) 23:58, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I have every right to defend myself, no matter how many edits I have. Had such a baseless claim not been made against me, in an attempt to have me blocked, perhaps I wouldn't feel the need to so diligently make sure that my position was fairly represented. - 8.39.228.13 (talk) 00:19, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Response

Zero evidence of disruptive editing to the article has been provided. Mandruss claims that "they are not relevant to this report", but nothing could be more relevant. Accusations of disruptive article editing should be accompanied by links to article edit diffs. If no such links can be provided, then such an accusation should be retracted.

Mandruss has pursued an agenda of whitewashing the Shooting of Samuel DuBose article, repeatedly reverting well sourced claims that present one of the article subjects in a negative light. He has even stated about one of the article subjects: ""Frankly his history looks terrible, especially juxtaposed with Tensing's (aside from being indicted for murder, that is), and the more we say the worse that gets."" . Our job is to honestly report on the events that the article covers, and not conceal relevant information because "the more we say the worse it gets". I am not completely alone in my concern. For example, Gaijin42, who is mentioned above, said: ""Presenting information that looks poorly on DuBose is not an attempt to shift blame, it is honest reporting, and hiding it makes it look like we are trying to whitewash him/bandwagon on Tensing"".

Mandruss was the first to personally call me out by username/ip in the article's Talk section, under the "8.39.228.13 edit" section . When I mentioned in a talk section that a disproportionate number of the edits were made by him, I also used it as an opportunity to repeatedly praise Mandruss, and encourage others to increase their editing activity to balance out the voice in the article.. Mandruss characterized this as a "spurious attack thread" on my Talk page.. When I asked him to substantiate this claim by pointing out what in that section was spurious, he didn't respond.

Mandruss has participated in WikiBullying by accusing me of steamrolling the article with zero substantiation, and threatening me with having my edit privileges revoked, while himself making a disproportionate number of edits on both the article and the talk page (29% of the edits to the article, and 46% of the edits to the Talk page). I have refused to participate in aggressively editing or reverting the article, instead choosing to state my concerns on the Talk page.

I would be happy to compile a list of diffs documenting the whitewashing of this article.

Finally, I again request that diffs evidencing disruptive editing to the article by me be provided to substantiate the claim that I have participated in such activity. Thank you for considering my position. - 8.39.228.13 (talk) 19:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

As I said above, any issues about my behavior should be discussed separately and independently from those about yours. Even if you had any valid reason for complaint, one does not justify or excuse the other, and, as my parents taught me, two wrongs don't make a right. You steadfastly refused to come here with your complaints until you needed them to defend yourself here, to divert discussion from the issue at hand in this thread. I refuse to defend myself in this report, beyond what I have already said. ―Mandruss ☎ 19:29, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

As your behavior is relevant to this conflict, and specifically to the accusations you have made against me, I feel it is fair and appropriate to mention that behavior here. Again, I encourage you to provide diffs to substantiate your claim that I have made disruptive edits to the article. - 8.39.228.13 (talk) 19:45, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Again, I decline, for the reasons stated. As I'm well aware that far too many of these ANI threads devolve into unproductive and extended pissing matches, I'll now leave this with the community and trust that the right thing will be done. Others are welcome to ping me if further input from me is required. ―Mandruss ☎ 19:48, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mandruss: both sides of this argument have WP:BURDEN, as well as WP:BOOMERANG. Not saying that you've done anything wrong, but "it takes two to tango" as the public says. Might not be my place to say this but it needs saying, though the same goes for @8.39.228.13:. However, I'm not sure if this has now calmed down and been resolved and is no longer relevant.

Dr Crazy 102 (talk) 10:09, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Ideloctober refuses to read or learn about Misplaced Pages Policy over on the Frankfurt School talk page.

Once again there's an obtrusive editor over on the Frankfurt School talk page causing problems. The user is Ideloctober (talk) - all the usual symptoms are present: Brand new account. Demands the article be changed without providing any sources for their arguments or referring to any Misplaced Pages policies. Refuses to even visit the talk page guidelines. Has decided Misplaced Pages is part of a Marxist conspiracy, and is now putting in repeated edit requests and generally refusing to work with others (resistant to all attempts at explaining the purpose of Misplaced Pages's policies, even from editors more sympathetic to their personal viewpoint). Any aid in restricting this uncooperative editor from further disrupting the talk page would be appreciated. --Jobrot (talk) 08:29, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh, cool, you went here too. I never said Misplaced Pages was a "Marxist conspiracy", I said that you being given sole editing privileges on the article, while being an outspoken pro-Marxist Liberal who stated that Capitalism would not be permitted to be discussed in a positive way, is extremely biased and unfair. Calling the article a conspiracy theory has caused mass amounts of mockery and jeering by other groups and forums, as it's one of the most blatantly biased and skewed viewpoints I've ever seen on this website in my 10+ years of anonymous or accounted editing here. You, a Marxist, are the only one allowed to make changes to a section about Cultural Marxism, and forbid anyone from calling it more than an anti-semitic racist conspiracy theory. Your bias is sickening, and I suggest your editing privileges on said article be revoked, and that you be required to follow by the same rules you preach to the others. Your personal attacks (calling me and another anti-Semites for requesting a title edit?????) as well as your overt bias are both not permitted on Misplaced Pages. You are accomplishing nothing by attacking me and making fraudulent edits other than proving Leftist-Marxists as yourself are entirely opposed to free, unbiased speech and, as Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol, Che, Castro, Sung, Jong-il, Jong-un, and every other Communist leader in history did, you too prefer censorship and false sources in order to promote your own agenda. That much is obvious. Ideloctober (talk) 09:16, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I remind you that On the Internet, nobody knows you're a Marxist and you're not helping yourself attacking other editor's alleged bias. For both sides, diffs would be helpful. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 09:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Ideloctober, without citing any sources, your arguments on the Frankfurt School talk page simply come across as whining. You say you have been on Misplaced Pages for years, so one would hope you're familiar with the concept of verifiability. And you use the phrase "neutral", so one would hope you understand that neutrality means reflecting what is written in reliable sources. Since you have provided no sources of your own, and given no serious comment on sources currently used, all you've done is expressed your personal displeasure with the viewpoints present in the article. Continuing in this manner will inevitably lead to your being blocked or banned from Misplaced Pages, although continuing to assail Jobrot on a personal level may lead to that even sooner. Someguy1221 (talk) 10:00, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I never called you an anti-semite. I have in fact explicitly stated that the conspiracy theory doesn't always boil down to anti-semitism (diff of that). Also I've said specifically that I don't have any special privileges here on Misplaced Pages (diff of that). I was certainly never given "sole editing privileges on the article" and that's not something likely to happen on Misplaced Pages. Please learn to respect Misplaced Pages's policies and processes if you wish to contribute.

As for Misplaced Pages inhibiting your free speech - Misplaced Pages is not a SOAPBOX for your free speech. Speech on Misplaced Pages is restricted to what adheres to Misplaced Pages's policies and sourcing requirements... which are there to ensure accuracy and verifiability. NOT to facilitate your personal opinions - or for that matter, MY personal opinions. --Jobrot (talk) 10:16, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Someguy1221 and Ricky81682 hit the nail on the head. The rhetoric and unsubstantiated claims made by Ideloctober here on this page are troubling. When you accuse someone of making racist (or other types of slurs) comments, you should really provide the links to back that up. I personally could not find that. And when incredibly incorrect statements like an editor being given "sole editing privileges on the article" are made, that really hurts your credibility. Onel5969 17:22, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• I was contemplating coming here too about "Ideloctober"(who probably also edits logged out with 74.129.76.107. The edits at the George Lincoln Rockwell(An American Nazi) are also problematic. The sources used and edits there are definitely not compatible with Wiki policies. I don't believe any amount of discussion will persuade this editor. Dave Dial (talk) 14:47, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Problematic? Are we on Tumblr now? Never use the phrase 'problematic' unless you want to appear as a stereotypical eFeminist. My edits to Rockwell following a friend editing on the same local IP are sourced with one influential blog and two books both published by Universities. I know how to cite, I know how to source, and I've used them. There are articles with claims far less sourced than mine, and with all this evident Liberal backlash I'm beginning to doubt Misplaced Pages's true neutrality. There is no solid source that Cultural Marxism is nothing more than a conspiracy theory, considering many other sources from the Right or Radical Right back it up. But you won't use those sources, will you? No. It's laden with Left, Marxist, and Progressive sources, which are all fine, but the Right is "too biased". Again, with the Liberal bias you allow to run rampant, perhaps this is why thatm ore than ever people don't take Misplaced Pages seriously. Sure, I think your "Progressive" agenda is the definition of backwards and wrong, but I'm not arguing to attack your ideas or include sources or comments attacking you, I just want neutrality, and you know as well as I do that passing Cultural Marxism off as a pure conspiracy theory by virtue of pro-Marxist sources alone is extremely biased, and it's befitting the agenda you're attempting to impose, Jobrot.

"Base and Sperstructure in the Marxist cultural Theory", Raymond Williams http://www.marylandthursdaymeeting.com/Archives/SpecialWebDocuments/Cultural.Marxism.htm The Free Congress also has many discourses on the topic.

But those are probably much too unfavoring of Marx for you to accept, Jobrot. Ideloctober (talk) 22:29, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:NOTHERE. The accusations of bias and personal attacks are out of control. GAB 22:48, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Stop focusing on Jobrot, start confining your comments to content and sources. You can do this, or abandon the topic area, or you can leave Misplaced Pages. Someguy1221 (talk) 22:47, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll abandon the topic area. Please wipe this section out whenever possible. I didn't mean to cause such a fight. Ideloctober (talk) 23:18, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

This user has continued to take it upon themselves to make personal commentary/attacks against me elsewhere (specifically on their talk page). --Jobrot (talk) 00:41, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• The editor continues to use blogs(anthonyflood.com) for sources on the George Lincoln Rockwell article. Using blogs to claim that the US Government assassinated the American Nazi leader here(noncounterproductive.blogspot.com), same here, adds more conspiracy claims with another blog here(anthonyflood.com) and keeps adding again and again. Claiming that JFK and MLK get conspiracy theories, why not an American Nazi(edit summary). This editor is not here to build an encyclopedia or not competent. Dave Dial (talk) 03:00, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• The sources were from two University press books. If you believe Rockwell being a Nazi means he shouldn't have the same treatment other assassinated politicians and political activists do, then that does seem a bit biased. However, I've stated I'll cease editing the articles in question and have said nothing else on the matter. I'm not entirely sure what the continued ganging-up will accomplish here. I'd be lying if I said I didn't suspect this is due to my anti-Liberal views on a site where Liberal bias has been accused for over a decade. Quite like going to a baking convention and stating you despise bakers. That's not to say it's the reason or only reason, but I do have a feeling anti-Liberals aren't looked too highly upon here. That being said my edits and wished changes have had nothing to do with politics, but simply establishing neutrality where I feel it isn't present. It's very hard to collaborate in good faith when off the bat it seems you're being told your opinions on a subject are wrong, and when you're outnumbered as I am now. Lastly, I have indeed stated I won't make any more edits to these articles, and apologized to Jobrot for making him feel I was personally attacking him. This really has no further purpose. I didn't intend on being disruptive or causing conflict, and admittedly I got a bit heated on the topic. Ideloctober (talk) 10:00, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: In addition to Ideloctober's problematic editing, he is clearly a WP:Sock. I support indefinitely blocking the Ideloctober account. Flyer22 (talk) 11:28, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• • I've apologized and stated that I will let it go. I think this has been resolved. Ideloctober (talk) 01:14, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• • • Comments like this do not lead one to believe that you are letting it go. Rather the opposite. --‖ Ebyabe - Health and Welfare ‖ 02:56, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• • • Am I not allowed to talk to other users? Am I not allowed to tell someone to not let people get them down? It didn't even pertain at all to this situation. I deleted my comment, if that fixes things. Ideloctober (talk) 03:53, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a place for you to conduct a personal political witch-hunt. You've been brought here for accusing others of promoting a political bias (whatever the bias may be, but in this case for having a Marxist and/or Liberal bias) your response to this has been to accuse others of calling you antisemitic which you've absolutely failed to prove. You've been warned several times in several places and claim to have changed your ways - yet you are still conducting an anti-marxist witch-hunt and making accusations of political bias. Misplaced Pages is not a battleground WP:BATTLEGROUND - yet you continue to use it as one despite the best efforts of your fellow wikipedians to coach you against this behaviour. I believe you will continue to have difficulty understanding what the problem is with YOUR actions in favour of perceiving a Marxist bias everywhere and editing for political interests rather than for the interests of creating neutral encyclopedic content. I think a ban would be appropriate. Please keep your political views OFF Misplaced Pages. --Jobrot (talk) 05:14, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I did. I already apologized to you and have several times stated I will refrain from editing the article any further. This is the only time I've ever gotten political on an issue, and it's only because it is indeed a hot-button topic for some, and I shouldn't have let that get the best of me. I'm sorry, really, although I just don't see why this has to continue. Ideloctober (talk) 05:30, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, a Non-apology apology (in that you apologized for my perceptions rather than your actions), and as of today (the 9th of August) you're still using Misplaced Pages for political purposes WP:BATTLEGROUND, as exampled in the comments Ebyabe has brought up. This process will end when the admins make their decision. --Jobrot (talk) 13:07, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

By the way are you ever going to produce evidence that I called you antisemitic? --Jobrot (talk) 13:25, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, if you have really learned your lesson, please edit some different articles so you can demonstrate this. Actions speak louder. --‖ Ebyabe - General Health ‖ 14:54, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Still fighting the good fight. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 20:02, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I deleted any and all politically charged comments. I don't have to apologize for calling you a Liberal, because that isn't an insult. I thought you were one, and whether you are or not, it isn't meant to be an insult whatsoever. I would appreciate it if people could stop nitpicking comments I removed on my own accord as ammunition here. Whether or not I think the site has a Marxist-Liberal bias or not is just that, thinking, my opinion, and you have no right to dictate what I'm allowed to think and not allowed to think. I apologized for bringing in political bias, I removed my comments, and now I'm quite curious as to what else I've apparently done wrong that requires this report to be kept open while snarky contributors come in with jabs and comments unrelated to anything else that's going on. Ideloctober (talk) 20:40, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

If you don't understand why personal politics and ideological accusations of your fellow editors should be kept away from Misplaced Pages and out of the editorial process (hint: WP:GOODFAITH exists for a reason) - then perhaps Misplaced Pages is not the place for you? I hope level heads (and policy) prevail, and that the WP:DEADHORSE of explaining WP:SOAPBOX to you can be given a rest. --Jobrot (talk) 03:43, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support block - WP:NOTHERE and WP:CIR seem to be serious issues here. Ian.thomson (talk) 03:54, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support block - Given the issue stems across multiple pages and the editor claims to have been editing anonymously for 10+ years now, yet still hasn't learnt the basics of Misplaced Pages policy and conduct (let alone how to perform citations diff) - I'd say a ban of both the user and their IP is in order. WP:NOTHERE WP:LISTEN WP:SOAPBOX WP:BATTLEGROUND. --Jobrot (talk) 05:08, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

As stated before, I will no longer edit said political articles nor make any contact with said users that have been involved with this. From what I read in the guidelines this is the best way to let it go and move on, and it's what I'll do. Ideloctober (talk) 06:09, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Given that you've edited a couple of Nazis pages (adding your own positive spin that didn't meet WP:RS and has brought you up for edit warring), the Administrators notice board, and the Cultural Marxism/Conspiracy section of The Frankfurt School page... I'd say the bulk of your edits are political articles... the only other edit you've made was for McClintic Wildlife Management Area. Even though the sample size is small - it still suggests you'll gravitate back to your interests here - which are political in nature. --Jobrot (talk) 21:33, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support block - Editor seems to think wikipedia is a ideological WP:BATTLEGROUND and not certain as to why that is an issue in creating an encyclopedia. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 07:48, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose block - Seems wrong to silence certain voices. Isn't freedom of speech preferable?Jimjilin (talk) 18:09, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

As stated earlier, Misplaced Pages is not a loud speaker for personal views. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia of facts, not opinions. Free speech here is, and should be limited, held captive by policy. Particularly WP:RS. --Jobrot (talk) 03:37, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages contains many opinions. And who decides which facts are valid, which facts are included? Misplaced Pages needs a variety of viewpoints, don't you think? Not everybody in the world is a white male atheist pretending to be neutral. lolJimjilin (talk) 18:13, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Comment - It indeed does. However, core content policies should be always followed by editors. Similar to laws and regulations implemented by a government of a country, here on Misplaced Pages policies govern what's appropriate for an encyclopedia. WP:RS is the specific policy which helps us decide which sources are valid. -- Chamith (talk) 18:50, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Comment - There is a hierarchy of sources with peer reviewed academic sources being at the top, then credible journalistic sources with good quality verified editorial oversight, then experts and institutions, then the wider web. By now you should have known this, and the fact that you don't speaks to your incompetence as an editor and the importance of WP:CIR in deciding your case. --Jobrot (talk) 21:33, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I linked to many quality sources. And don't forget, bias and conflict of interest can undermine even the most august sources: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/Jimjilin (talk) 02:42, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I would argue that the site you've linked to is known to conduct "post-publication peer review" and for that reason can't be considered a high quality source in of it's self (although any papers that appear on that site AND have other peer reviewed credentials may be quality sources, but that website alone - due to the nature of post-publication peer review - isn't necessarily indicative of quality). Post-publication peer review differs from standard peer review as it entails the academic findings being uploaded (published) FIRST, and then "reviewed" on a web 2.0 user generated content basis... compare this to the traditional academic peer review system (of reviewers being verified anonymous experts in their fields), and it's pretty obvious why post-publication peer review has come up for question: . Anyways, Post-publication peer review has all the problems of Misplaced Pages essentially. Take this example of a "researcher" who is solely targeted at having an anti-gay agenda (and even goes to the irrational lengths of reviewing news stories for some reason and claiming that has some sort of scientific validity): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Cameron%20P&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=14723445

However this is all fairly irrelevant to your consistent failure to meet Misplaced Pages policy (note: you don't get to pick and choose which policies you follow). If you want to attempt to dismantle wikipedia's WP:RS standards, you won't find any help here.

Also, please visit the Talk Page Guidelines and format your comments on talk pages properly by indenting your comments. You have been here too long for basic formatting issues like the nesting of replies to STILL be an issue. I believe this demonstrates your consistent failure to WP:LISTEN. --Jobrot (talk) 05:17, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Cotap Spamming

I would like a couple of more eyes on an article if you can, the Cotap article. Over the last six months or so a series of IPs and low time registered accounts have been adding information on a "controversy" around this company spamming emails to people and using either no sources or completely unreliable sources to support this position. I feel this is over A) Undue weight and B) completely badly sourced. Since I've been reverting these additions, and my "connection" to the company (i.e. none) is now being questioned, I believe should bow out of the article to avoid drama and any possibility of edit warring in case I'm viewing it wrong. Could someone else give it a drive by and maybe chime in with their view? I did protect the article a couple of times due to the roving IP edits, and it is currently protected against non-approved users. Canterbury Tail talk 11:53, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

My advice is not to abandon the article unless you want the spammers/disruptors to win. If the information has merit, they are welcome to find WP:RS that reports it. If not, it's not appropriate. Misplaced Pages isn't Google or a newspaper, and doesn't report every claim that shows up on Google. These IPs and whatnot (and even the reports on forums and Google) could also be competitors looking to slander the company. Softlavender (talk) 12:07, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm the one who wrote the "Spamming controversy" section on the Cotap page. As I've stated in the article's "Talk" page, I have no connection to the company, except as a sysadmin of an email domain which they have targeted with their UCE (Unsolicited Commercial Email, aka SPAM). Additionally, I want to state that I have absolutely no relation to any of the company's competitors, and also that I have no axe to grind with the company; my motivation for writing the aforementioned section is that I find it worthwhile (and enhancing to Misplaced Pages as a whole) to report on the company's current affairs and practices, as it's the case with the issue at hand. All the edits I did to the page was while logged in with my Misplaced Pages id, so I do not understand what you mean by "roving IP edits". I also want to note that I have a long story as a Misplaced Pages contributor (since 2006, please check my contributions page), and I want what is best for Misplaced Pages; I think it's unfair to imply that I'm a disruptor/slanderer/spammer. Regarding adherence to WP:RS, please note that it offers (as of necessity) only general advice on what is permissible or not, to quote: "Internet forum postings, or tweets—are largely not acceptable" (emphasis mine); the only part of the WP:RS that mentions forums is regarding material on living persons, which is not the case here, and I also took care to list other references which are not forums; please see the paragraph I just added to the article's talk page further explaining my reasoning in this regard. As a final (for now) note, I ask that you please refrain from deleting the section I've added while we are discussing it. Thanks for your time and consideration. Durval (talk) 13:58, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

(Point of note, according to WP:BRD once you've added content and it's been removed (by several users) you should not add it in again until agreement has been reached, not continue to add it and tell others not to remove it.) According to the history there are many IP addresses adding in the same content and now 5 different users have removed this content. In order for this material to be included in Misplaced Pages you need to have reliable sources for A) the fact it is happening, B) that it is widespread and C) that it is considered a controversy that is discussed by independent third party sources and D) something more than trivia. Canterbury Tail talk 14:25, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I see only two other users (besides yourself) removing the section, and those other two only happened in the last few minutes/hours after you asked other editors for help here. So I'm refraining from undoing the removals now as per WP:BRD, but I ask other editors who are reading this to please add it on my behalf. On a final (for now) note, I point that you (and the other editors helping you) have not answered my defense of the sources used, which I posted in the article's talk page, and just went on and removed it again. I think this is undue censorship, and that the right thing to do is to keep the section up while it's still being discussed. Again, thanks for yout time and consideration. Durval (talk) 14:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

That isn't how things work here, Durval. We need a solid source for information like that, not to mention that, as you've been told, continuing to re-add the section after it has been removed is edit-warring, which can and does regularly result in a block. Also, I suggest reading WP:Sock puppetry#Meatpuppetry before you continue your canvassing off-wiki; at this point all you're going to do is waste admins' time and get the article semi-protected to stop your little power-play. —Jeremy v^_^v 16:54, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

<procedural note. User:Durval has solicited offsite encouragement for people to edit war on this topic. See the thread here.> Canterbury Tail talk 15:29, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

I will note that two SPAs showed up on the newly-minted AfD discussion. One is an IP; the other is a registered user; both have only ever made edits related to Cotap. —Jeremy v^_^v 17:05, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm interested to hear what other admins think of the off-wiki canvassing signaled by Canterbury Tail. I consider that blockable. Drmies (talk) 17:20, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

While Durval has been here more than long enough to know the rules, I wouldn't call for a block on it (despite the fact that they mention I've been calling to have them blocked, which hasn't happened.) I think that was a heat of the moment and can assume good faith. Canterbury Tail talk 17:34, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm of the old school, I suppose. Durval, it might be interesting to hear your comment. In my opinion, such canvassing has the potential of leading to great disruption. Drmies (talk) 17:38, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

The canvassing can be handled by the closing admin on the AfD, but as relates to the non-RS material repeatedly being reinserted into the article, I agree this is going to cause great disruption. My view would be to warn Durval that he needs to either delete that canvassing post or, if that's not possible, retract the canvassing in that thread and tell the people in that thread to stay completely away from the article, or else he faces a block. By the way, here is a more direct link that goes right to the canvassing and does not require any scrolling: . Softlavender (talk) 21:58, 7 August 2015 (UTC); edited 10:15, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Note from a non-admin involved person: given that the canvassing was in response to an edit-war warning, its clear intent was to continue the edit war through meatpuppetry, while denying that it was an edit war (

Long term pattern of POV edits and edit warring by User:Jimjilin

Jimjilin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I started to post this to a current thread about Jimjilin at 3RR (opened by David Gerard), but it's really more appropriate for ANI.

Jimjilin and I have some overlapping interests it seems, because I keep coming across a reliable pattern of POV edits followed by edit warring over those edits, sometimes over the course of many months. Though he's been blocked for edit warring in the past, he's a relatively experienced Wikipedian and rarely breaches 3RR. Airborne84 opened an ANI thread about him in December, but other than a comment from Xcuref1endx it did not attract attention or result in any action.

The current 3RR report concerns Jerry Coyne. Here are some other examples:

• At Promiscuity: sustaining multiple edit wars. One is over adding a statement about promiscuity and health: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Another (related) is edit warring to downplay a source which that says the opposite of the claim he wants to press, adding poor sources to contradict one that passes WP:MEDRS, and alleging it's other people mischaracterizing the source: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
• There are other examples in many, many articles Jimjilin has edited: Paul Singer (businessman), Thomas Piketty, Criticisms of Marxism, Michel Foucault, Moral panic, Cecile Richards...
• An edit war at Michael Kempner led Mosmof to open this thread at RSN a couple months ago. In that article Jimjilin added the same thing 12 times between October 2014 and June 2015: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

I believe Jimjilin has some productive contributions to some articles, and I truly hate bringing people here (it's only happened a couple times before), but POV and edit warring constitute a shockingly high percentage of his edits and, judging by past blocks and the long, long list of warnings/comments at his user talk page, there does not look to be any indication of the behavior stopping. — Rhododendrites \\ 20:43, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

That...are a lot of warnings. Copyright violation, edit wars, POV edits...

The diffs and contributions show extensive disruptive editing, and the talk page shows a complete ignorance of warnings.

How did that user get so many warnings without being blocked?

I'd say infinite siteban for long-term disruptive editing, including copyright infringements, ignoring a total number of fourty warnings...--Müdigkeit (talk) 20:56, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

As mentioned above, I've had limited interaction with Jimjilin because of a content dispute. I think what complicates things is that the user is actually operating in good faith and doesn't seem to see a distinction between POV and fact, so like Rhododendrites, I don't want to see a long-term block. That said, Jimjilin has been blocked before and all the warnings and friendly links to guideline pages are obviously not making a difference. Mosmof (talk) 21:24, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mosmof: No, I no longer believe he is acting in good faith. He has made some productive contributions, yes, but the reason I brought the issue here is because of an egregious extent of edit warring despite being warned/advised many times; persistent WP:IDHT as displayed through editing, edit summaries, and talk page posts; misrepresentation of other people's arguments or ignorance as an excuse to continue edit warring (e.g. ~"this satisfies your concern" or ~"let's just go by what the source says" while changing the text to a POV interpretation of the source); clear POV nature of a large percentage of his edits (often tacking on a line of "criticism" based on a single/poor source after well-sourced content); and having to be told everything repeatedly every time, just for him to do the same thing months later. As I said, I hate bringing people to ANI, largely because I can usually find cause to assume good faith on some level or because the issues are compartmentalized in some way, but after months/years of the same, Jimjilin has exhausted that AGF. It's possible something like a 0RR could solve the biggest problems (not 1RR as he's shown a willingness to continue an edit war over long, long periods of time), but I think that would just delay the inevitable. — Rhododendrites \\ 21:44, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Rhododendrites: I've come around and support a long-term block precisely because I think he's editing in good faith (no really, work with me here. There are obvious blindspots when it comes to partisan topics, and there's simply no awareness that he's doing anything wrong. If the user was willfully pushing POV and trying to get around policy, then I think there's a chance for change in behavior. But with all the warnings and friendly advice he's received and he still doesn't get it, then there's no hope. Mosmof (talk) 19:28, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I am an uninvolved editor. See: GAB 22:21, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

... or this.--Müdigkeit (talk) 22:26, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

A quarter of the warnings received would still be grounds for sanctions. GAB 22:39, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• I don't know what you are proposing, Rhododendrites, but I support whatever block or ban that will stop this editor from editing WP:Disruptively. He is a prime example of a WP:Edit warrior and someone who disregards WP:Policies and guidelines too often; if he had valid WP:Ignore all rules reasons for acting the way he does, things would be different. And even if he were to have valid WP:Ignore all rules reasons, that is not a policy to invoke on every whim or in most cases. For the record here in this thread, I'm one of the editors who has dealt with Jimjilin's problematic editing at the Promiscuity article. Flyer22 (talk) 23:53, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

• @Flyer22: The main reason I didn't explicitly propose a block/ban is because I'm involved and wanted to bring it up here to see what other people thought the best way forward would be. Maybe it's better to be specific about a suggested course of action, though. So for the record, I see no indication whatsoever that Jimjilin is WP:HERE. Countless warnings and words of advice over the course of years has made no apparent difference in his editing patterns, so barring a credible expression of a radical change in perspective, I think that if we're thinking about preventative rather than punitive measures, an indefinite block is the only option. — Rhododendrites \\ 00:22, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh, yes indeed. Support. GAB 00:56, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support whatever it takes to stop the misuse of Misplaced Pages for POV pushing—I saw the five virtually identical edits (1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5) at Jerry Coyne and it is clear this editor will continue for months. Those five edits occurred on 6 and 7 August 2015. Adding WP:DUE encyclopedic information is fine, but adding fluff criticisms is not helpful. I picked another article from Jimjilin's contributions and saw two virtually identical edits to again add fluff criticism (1 + 2). Something like WP:1RR could be tried, but that may just draw the process out because it can be used to repeat an edit once a day or once a week. Johnuniq (talk) 01:21, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Rhododendrites seems to follow me around constantly deleting my additions. It appears he wants to silence opinions that he doesn't like. In the Kempner article Rhododendrites claims I "added the same thing". He is mistaken. I made many changes to my additions. I usually respond to comments from other editors even when these comments (in my opinion) lack merit. I did disagree with Rhododendrites in the Promiscuity article, but disagreeing with Rhododendrites does not = disruptive editing. Rhododendrites seems to be breaking Misplaced Pages policy, he was not honest in his criticism of me, he is not treating other editors respectfully.Jimjilin (talk) 01:31, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Johnuniq, a thoughtful article by two Phds is "fluff criticism"?! This seem absurd! Here are the authors: Dr. Alex B. Berezow is the founding editor of RealClearScience and co-author of Science Left Behind. He holds a PhD in microbiology from the University of Washington. Dr. James Hannam is the author of The Genesis of Science: How the Christian Middle Ages Launched the Scientific Revolution. He holds a PhD in the history and philosophy of science from the University of Cambridge. Looks like great qualifications.Jimjilin (talk) 01:34, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

My contributions at Paul Singer (businessman), Thomas Piketty, and Criticisms of Marxism I think were well-sourced and they eventually were accepted. In the Paul Singer article I linked to a NYT article amongst other sources. In the Piketty article I linked to another NYT article and a study Piketty wrote with Emmanuel Saez. In the Criticisms of Marxism article I linked to books by Thomas Sowell and Bertrand Russell and an article by Mikhail Bakunin. Can Rhododendrites tell me why he feels these sources are inadequate? Perhaps Rhododendrites is POV pushing and he doesn't like my well-sourced additions because they conflict with his agenda.Jimjilin (talk) 01:56, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Laughably, Jimjilin just got blocked 5 minutes ago for exceeding 3RR. The block is just a routine 24 hours. Meanwhile, based on the overwhelming evidence above and the incredibly long rap sheet of warnings, I Support a block, length to be determined by community consensus or closing admin. Could be anywhere from two weeks (escalating in length if problems continue after it expires) to indefinite. Most folks here, and those who have dealt with him all these years, appear to favor indefinite. Softlavender (talk) 02:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC); edited 02:28, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment I checked the user's talkpage and saw our past discussion regarding his POV-push on an article. I was struck by the fact that he wouldn't budge from his POV despite evidence to the contrary from reliable sources that I provided to him. The sources were easy to find but he refused to check further once he had made up his mind. This rigid stance coupled with longterm POV editing and edit-warring is very disruptive to a collaborative project. Δρ.Κ.  03:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment An assumption of good faith isn't applicable, and if for some reason it is, the other issue then is an incurable competence issue. Evidence of this: Here Jimjilin attempts to add a POV and decontextualized Piketty paragraph in the Karl Marx article. Here an editor puts the Piketty comment into context, pointing out that Jimjilin ignored or missed the context of Piketty's opinion and was decidedly POV pushing. One month later Jimjilin then moves on to Marxism and attempts to add this, the same exact thing, proceeding as if his attempts to pull the comment out of context in the other article never happened. The same editor essentially had to repeat what they wrote before. Jimjilin responds as if this was the first time this came to his attention. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 05:25, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support block. Enough is enough. Indef seems suitable as they have not improved with warnings. They continuely add poor quality sources that support a specific POV and they have tried to remove high quality sources that don't. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:36, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment Honestly, it seems several of you are more upset about Jimjilin's personal views rather than his conduct. I haven't been involved enough to comment fully, but it's just an outsider's observation. Ideloctober (talk) 10:09, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I think the level of cluelessness and disruption displayed in that statement says a lot more about the reason you should be sanctioned in the above ANI about you than it says anything at all worthwhile about this case. Softlavender (talk) 10:25, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I think you don't really know what you or he is talking about. Ideloctober (talk) 01:04, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support any increase in block length. Jimjilin has contributed good content before, but he seems to have a serious ideological ax to grind here. The fact he spent nearly a year at Michael Kempner adding the same disputed content over and over again I think shows a complete disregard for dispute resolution and consensus building. Given this sort of behavior is very old, and still occurring, I think it may be time to show Jimjilin the door. Though I would support his continued presence under strict conditions. Someguy1221 (talk) 10:33, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• I propose this: An indefinite topic ban from political ideologies, broadly construed, an indefinite 1RR restriction, as well as an indefinite allowance for uninvolved adminstrators to use blocks or bans of any necessary length or type for further violations, including indefinite blocks or bans, warnings about copyright as last warning from the community, and a block of sufficient length to ensure that this user reads the warning, this time.--Müdigkeit (talk) 10:52, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• The problem with this is, admins don't have time to babysit individual editors, and the problem/pattern is intransigent, years-long, resistant to a multitude of warnings, and completely unheeding. At this point, it's a NOTHERE situation, and the only remedy is a long long block or a site ban. Softlavender (talk) 11:04, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• @Müdigkeit: I hope you don't mind; I've added a bulletpoint and unbolded your post above. I did so just for clarity, because by not indenting and bolding everything it could give the impression that people below are specifically supporting what you've framed as a "proposal". If you would really like to propose something specific like that, it may be most clear to open a sub-section. — Rhododendrites \\ 21:39, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Actually it occurs to me that since I'm not sure which "this editor" Xcuref1endx means, he/she may indeed have been supporting what Müdigkeit proposed. Pinging to make sure I didn't make this more confusing rather than less :) — Rhododendrites \\ 21:41, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support What this editor has said. I believe competence to be a serious issue here as to which I am not certain what a temporary ban will achieve. Despite the constant warning over and over again, the editor is still under the idea that if "someone wrote something somewhere" it is a valid secondary source and its existence provides it with enough weight for inclusion. Those that suggest otherwise he interprets as having some sort of conspiratorial tendency to censor information or trying to "suppress information". The editor probably suspects that is what this ANI is about, note how he chose to defend himself here above, he still is working under the assumption he is doing things correct and Rhododendrites is attempting to "silence opinions" he doesn't like. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 18:50, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

The first idea I had was also "siteban". However, the user has not been blocked since 2012(ignoring the recent block that is still in effect). Most of the warnings came later. The user has probably ignored further warnings because no action was taken. I also mentioned a block of sufficient length, that doesn't have to be a short block. Probably at least a month.--Müdigkeit (talk) 11:12, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support long-term block. I recommend at least six months. I would hate to see someone permanently blocked, but conversely a block of a few weeks or a month or two doesn't send a strong enough message of "change your behavior to align better with Misplaced Pages's policies". I spent some time on Jimjilin's talk page suggesting better ways to get results at Misplaced Pages, but it appears that he or she is fairly intractable. Jimjilin could potentially contribute in the future, but without a strong message, his or her actions will not change. Jimjilin's talk page shows that clearly enough. --Airborne84 (talk) 14:03, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Xcuref1endx writes: "the editor is still under the idea that if "someone wrote something somewhere" it is a valid secondary source and its existence provides it with enough weight for inclusion." This kind of vague blanket criticism is of course silly and unhelpful. Xcuref1endx and I have differed many times in the past and he is anything but neutral, see my Talk page. Xcuref1endx has made many accusations against me, most of which lack any merit. At times, for example in the Criticisms of Marxism article and the Piketty article, I think Xcuref1endx has been less than cooperative - he has engaged in what appears to be disruptive editing, deleting well-sourced facts which did not suit his agenda.Jimjilin (talk) 04:18, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Ideloctober, I think the extreme hostility of a few editors is driven by their eagerness to cover up facts which fail to buttress their ideology.Jimjilin (talk) 04:18, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry I broke the 3RR rule in the Jerry Coyne article. Editor David Gerard kept insisting on a point for which he offered no proof. I should have been more careful.Jimjilin (talk) 04:18, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I think we are past the stage of trying to determine if there is a problem or not, however, since Jimjilin has claimed that I have made many meritless accusations against him and points to his Talk section as proof, for clarity, here are my edits there: 1, 2, 3, 4,5, 6. These have all been responses to the editor ignoring conversation in article talk sections about controversial additions, engaging in edit-warring over contributions that consensus was clearly against, and many instances of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT (see my post above for an example). The editor often interprets demands to proceed along the lines of wikipedia guidelines (such as gaining consensus) as ad hominem attacks against him or attempts to "suppress information" along ideological lines. Though, other editors already pointed that out. Being an involved editor, I will not participate in determining what the appropriate way forward is, the evidence has been put forth, some uninvolved editors should take a look and determine the best course action. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 19:42, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• support long term block i looked at Jimjilin's edit history - their focus here is politics (including social conservative politics) - a topic ban from politics is essentially all of WP for them. Politics is hard enough without this kind of non-collaborative POV-pushing. Jytdog (talk) 23:05, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Xcuref1endx: "Jimjilin and I have some overlapping interests it seems, because I keep coming across a reliable pattern of POV edits followed by edit warring over those edits, sometimes over the course of many months." Note Xcuref1endx's dishonesty at the start of this discussion. He tries to cover up the fact that we have argued for a long time. He didn't "come across" edit warring he constantly made inappropriate accusations of edit warring against me. Please note our discussion (https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Thomas_Piketty) where Xcuref1endx proclaims an addition is "cherrypicked" and then refuses to say why he feels that way or provide evidence for his belief. I think he has been less than cooperative. As always Xcuref1endx accuses others at the drop of a hat of starting an "edit war". lol In this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Criticisms_of_Marxism Xcuref1endx again refuses to answer straightforward questions, proclaims without evidence that well-sourced additions are "cherrypicked", accuses others of engaging in an edit war. In this same discussion Xcuref1endx dishonestly claimed I "responded to no concerns of any editors". He also resorted to ad hominems. Perhaps Xcuref1endx should be honest, seek consensus, stop making baseless accusations, and stop POV-pushing. In both the Piketty article and Criticisms_of_Marxism article I listened to other editors and changed my additions which were eventually accepted.Jimjilin (talk) 14:12, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

So...If anyone wanted a prime example of the WP:CIR and WP:DISRUPT that is at play here, the above response is typical. Editor attributes a quote to me, that was really someone else. Has completely ignored the concerns of EVERY editor here. Still doesn't get the fact that accusations of edit warring against them are in fact legitimate. Forces editors to repeat themselves over and over again. Misinterprets being told to comply with wikipedia standards as ad hominem attacks against him. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 18:55, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Additionally, when jimjilin says I accuse others at the drop of a hat of starting an "edit war". Here is the hat dropping: 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 02:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support indefinite block this user clearly doesn't understand the purpose of Misplaced Pages (to expound on whatever THE SOURCES say) nor the method (collaboration with OTHER EDITORS) and I'd say they're abusing the site and the goodwill of fellow editors. In my opinion they should be banned permanently. WP:CIR WP:NOTHERE WP:SOAPBOX WP:BATTLEGROUND --Jobrot (talk) 08:03, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Move to close and enact the consensus. There's a clear consensus that this years'-long intractable behavior pattern despite numerous warnings merits a long-term block. Move for an admin to close this thread and enact the consensus, if their perception agrees with this summation. Softlavender (talk) 12:21, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Xcuref1endx doesn't seem able to understand that I made many changes to my additions in the Piketty article. I responded again and again to the concerns of editors. Xcuref1endx's dishonesty, as when he claimed I "responded to no concerns of any editors" in the Criticisms_of_Marxism article and his constant inappropriate accusations of edit warring are only part of his hostility towards those who fail to push his agenda.Jimjilin (talk) 18:02, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I have made some valuable contributions to Misplaced Pages and I haven't violated the 3RR rule in some time (since 2012). I hope Misplaced Pages is hospitable to editors who have a point of view not shared by the majority of Misplaced Pages editors.Jimjilin (talk) 18:02, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Indefinite block I know I said I wouldn't vote but I kind of had to. However, it should be noted that I am an involved editor. I say indefinite because there is a WP:CIR issue that I do not think an extended amount of time away will fix. I second Softlavender's move to close and enact consensus. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 19:01, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Jimjilin is not getting the purpose of this encyclopedia. Are there any admins there that can wrap this up? -Xcuref1endx (talk) 21:30, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Disruptive editing and advocacy by 2602:306:b8bf:c0:a17b:1dc4:f754:7974/199.116.169.39/199.116.175.123

2602:306:b8bf:c0:a17b:1dc4:f754:7974 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (who used 199.116.175.39 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and 199.116.175.123 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) recently as well) is engaged in long-term disruptive editing and advocacy on numerous Chinese military hardware articles, in addition to engaging in personal attacks. (See the list of other IPs used by the editor below.) The editor does not seek resolutions through talk pages (even when invited to do so) and edit warring is frequent. The editor frequently falls back on any Chinese-language sources; these sources have few if any credentials demonstrating expert knowledge on the subject or give sources for their information (the Chinese web has so many enthusiast writers that there's always some "source" that the editor can fall back on and claim to be "accurate" and "official".)

I have (to my discredit) edit-warred with this editor, both currently and in the past.

Some more recent examples:

CJ-10 (missile)

• 119.116.175.123 adds () "sources" which the editor claims supports adding a ship to the box.
  • The claim rests on a Chinese-language article which extrapolates the fact that the ship carries the missile (which given the secrecy of Chinese military developments, such claims coming from a non-expert source is suspect).
  • A personal attack is issued in another edit.
  • Finally, the editor defends his sources not by addressing matters of its reliability by saying "If you argue that my source is not reliable, then back up with reliable source to prove them wrong"; in other words, the unreliable source must stand unless a reliable source can be found to replace it, rather than removing the unreliable source and its claims.
  • A talk page section is ignored.
  • Only the threat of possible admin action stops the editor from reintroducing the claims.
• 2602:306:b8bf:c0:a17b:1dc4:f754 reintroduces claims from an unreliable source (PopSci) and misinterpreted source (Janes.)
  • The readdition of the Janes article is particularly blatant, since it really does not mention the article subject (the missile's designation has been subject to confusion over the years, so without supporting sources the Janes article should not be used in the CJ-10 article.)
  • I suspect the editor has not bothered to read the article, and is only adding it because I had reverted that same edit made by a different user (who may or may not be a sockpuppet of the editor in question.)
  • The relevant talk page section is ignored.
• Throughout, the editor makes reverts with the comment "removal of sourced content", evidently continuing to lack understanding that not all sources are created equal as per WP:RS and WP:VERIFY
• Similar thing happened on the , again concerning the PopSci source; again, no interaction on the talk page, and the editor seems to be intervening on behalf of another editor (the same one as on the CJ-10 page)

Type 054A frigate

• 199.116.175.123 marks all ships as "active" simply on the strength that the infobox says 20 are active (the number at the time is completely unsupported by the article)
  • I update the "active" and "building" numbers by sourcing US DoD (17 active, 5 building)
  • 199.116.175.123 interprets the Janes article to say that since the 20th ship under construction has been commissioned, that all previous 19 seen under construction have been commissioned, and uses the Janes article as the "source" for each of the ships.
  • I dispute this on the talk page
    • The editor insists his interpretation of the Janes article is correct, and "backs it up" using a Chinese-language source. As far as I can tell, the Chinese source does say the same thing as the Janes article, that the 20th ship spotted under construction has now commissioned, not that 20 ships have been commissioned. The editor thus misinterprets the Chinese source too. This misinterpretation underlies the editor's argument, and the editor refuses to be budged from it. As an additional defence the editor says that since it's all on Baike Baidu (Chinese-language wiki) and supposedly sourced there, everything the editor has done in the article should stand, regardless.
    • Pointing out that the Chinese-language source has no indication of being more authoritative than Janes are ignored (in editor's words, the Chinese-language source: "It is official source, you just can not argue with it.") Also pointing out that saying it's on Baike Baidu is no substitute for proper sourcing and referencing on Misplaced Pages is ignored; essentially the editor attempts to use Baike Baidu to WP:PROVEIT. ()
    • I suggest that if the editor thinks the Baike Baidu sources are good, then the editor should transfer them to Misplaced Pages. This would make the interpretation of the Janes article irrelevant. As far as I can tell, my suggestion has been ignored.

Type 093 submarine

• 2602:306:b8bf:c0:a17b:1dc4:f754:7974 adds a 43 min Chinese-language video as a source. I revert it, ultimately arguing that it is incomprehensible to an English audience (no subtitles, no English summary)
  • The video is readded by 199.116.169.39/199.116.175.123; re-addition is justified by "The source is BETTER than English, it is from official Chinese news media, CCTV 7. Just watch the video as it clearly describes the propeller portion !" and "Does it matter? The source is from Chinese news site, which is more accurate than English version, 093 SSN is a Chinese military product !!!"
  • I start a topic on the talk page; editor refuses to show even after being explicitly invited on the editor's own talk page User talk:199.116.175.123#Talk pages.
• 199.116.175.123 uses a non-expert Chinese-language source to support a change to the "active" number, and claims over the submarines capabilities.
  • I dispute that the article says that the 3 093Gs have entered service, and say so on the talk page. (If you run the article through Google translate, it says the yard has completed construction, not that they have been commissioned.) I point out that contemporary sources support the assertion that the subs were completed, but not yet commissioned. No rebuttal by the editor.
  • The editor claims the Chinese-language source is "newer" than it actually is ("5 As of 8/5/2015 according to official Chinese source", when it was actually written on 29 Mar 2015) and again claims it is "official" and implies it is more authoritative than the other sources (ignoring, of course, how the editor has misinterpreted the source already as stated in the previous point)
  • Editor switches to 2602:306:b8bf:c0:a17b:1dc4:f754:7974 and re-adds the claims, which also highlights the editors ignorance concerning the dates
  • A personal attack is thrown in for good measure.
  • Throughout the editor uses "Removal of sourced content." to justify re-additions, clearly not understanding why they were removed, and of course, avoiding the talk page and deeper discussion.

Shenyang WS-10

• A minor example of the lack of due care on the part of the editor
  • Removes info using the edit comment that "it's not in the source", or "removal of sourced content" (, , ) when what was in the article was indeed in the source (as I explain on the talk page.)
  • Finally, the editor explicitly demonstrates ignorance of the source article's contents, first by elaborating on why the editor thinks the reversions are justified ("The source did not even mention AL-31FM1, where did you get the idea that the latest WS-10 has less thrust than AL-31FM1? You troll !!!!") and almost immediately afterwards realizes that it the information is in the source ("Ok, I read the source. It clearly says approaching. Let us use this word instead of "less". This is more accurate and neutral tone.")
  • In the editors final revision (and the current one), note how any negative connotations toward the WS-10 have been removed to be "neutral". The source article does support the range of a lower bound of 13 t thrust, and an upper bound of the thrust of the Russian engine (this is explained on the talk page.)

Other IPs this editor has used in the past include (all with similar behaviour):

• 199.116.175.27 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 199.116.175.51 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 199.116.175.83 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 199.116.175.94 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 2602:306:B8BF:C0:9104:96F8:421:1AE7 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 2602:306:B8BF:C0:A40B:3EC8:EBC1:5351 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I was unsure whether or not to take this to content disputes, since talk page interaction seems to be a prerequisite for that and this editor seems to make it a point to avoid interacting on talk pages altogether. This is in addition to editor's general uncivilness and lack of comprehension. - RovingPersonalityConstruct (talk, contribs) 03:00, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

• I've looked at the first three. This is a lot of words. I reverted on and semi-protected the missile and the submarine. I can't do the same for the frigate since a major edit happened in between. Your IP editor, whom I hope you've notified all over the place on as many of their talk page as you can, can get back to those two articles two weeks from now, and if they continue in the same vein, without getting talk page consensus, they will be blocked and, if need be, semi-protection will be extended.

  As for you, RovingEtc., consider taking the reliable source issue to WP:RSN. If you get a consensus that this or that source is not to be used, then you have a good argument for reverting and placing warning templates, etc. And then an admin can block and protect. I also suggest you post a note on the MILHIST project talk page, to get some expert input--since much of this may rely on source reading and interpretation. Good luck. Drmies (talk) 02:16, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Refusal to lift WP:BURDEN by User:Mhhossein

Mhhossein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is repeatedly inserting material from a disputed source in Quds Day without lifting his burden to demonstrate its reliability on either the talk page or anywhere else. The source is a partisan Muslim organisation with no reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. I have explained the same user numerous times before that such sources aren't usable per WP:V and he is not likely to stop disrupting the project before action is taken against him.--Anders Feder (talk) 07:35, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Why is this not on WP:RSN? Kingsindian ♝♚ 14:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Because WP:RSN is the place where editors not failing to follow WP:BURDEN can ask about the suitability of sources they wish to add or restore, "not the place to discuss other issues, such as editor conduct", as it says in the leading text on the board itself.--Anders Feder (talk) 15:21, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Neither of you have opened a discussion at RSN, while both have been edit-warring over this. It is not permissible to edit war even if you are right. Why are people here? To build an encyclopaedia, not create drama. I count 0 talk page comments by either side, both are arguing through edit summaries. A simple post to RSN would have solved this without any drama. A word to the wise: there are no victors at WP:ANI, only survivors. Kingsindian ♝♚ 15:55, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

@Kingsindian: What would RSN solve given that it almost never responds? You're obviously a bit of an amateur and mistakenly think RSN is "the ANI-equivalent for sources".--Anders Feder (talk) 16:57, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

@Anders Feder: I have posted many times at WP:RSN, as you can check here. You could use WP:RfC, WP:3O (another underused and very useful tool), or a hundred other things. Posting at WP:ANI before posting on the talk page is really weird. Kingsindian ♝♚ 17:14, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Easy for you to say given that you have zero interest in resolving the issue. Moralizing lectures dismissing everybody else's concerns as "drama" are a dime a dozen on Misplaced Pages.--Anders Feder (talk) 17:37, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

To me, you would not take it here if you had interest in resolving the issue. Mhhossein (talk) 12:05, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: Your repeated attempts to shift your own WP:BURDEN onto others across multiple articles is not an issue that belongs on the Quds Day talk page. It is a user conduct issue that belongs here.--Anders Feder (talk) 12:18, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm passionately waiting for you to show the cases in which I have not respected a consensus. Mhhossein (talk) 12:29, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Why? What does your refusal to lift your burden to form consensus have to do with whether you have respected the consensus you have failed to form? Are you attempting to shift the topic even here?--Anders Feder (talk) 12:38, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I would stop questions after questions. Mhhossein (talk) 13:34, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

What does that even mean? If you want to "stop questions", you should answer them.--Anders Feder (talk) 13:37, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• @Kingsindian: Sorry for the delay, I was on a trip. Any way, why not saying Anders Feder is repeatedly removing a challenging material from a possible reliable source from Quds Day without starting a talk page discussion? He could easily open a topic in WP:RSN instead of repeatedly reverting the edit at the very beginning. In fact, he acted so that he is the only one who determines whether a source is reliable or not. Of course, I didn't say that he was wrong for sure (for he was expressing his respected opinion), but his unidirectional reverts was really disturbing. I will certainly respect any consensus over this issue. Mhhossein (talk) 12:03, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

@Mhhossein: I will respond on the talk page. Kingsindian ♝♚ 12:09, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Sakimonk

Sakimonk has been previously been warned repeatedly, once for edit-warring by Melanie here and once again by myself here. The user continues to edit-war on a number of pages. See for example histories of Qadiani, Ahmadiyya or Template:Islam.

The reason why I am writing here is because I have been subject to uncivil behaviour by Sakimonk here. The user refers to me as a "treacherous qadiani", , "who allies with the enemies of Islam to make war against Muslims". The user continues calling me, "plain enemies of Islam" and "kuffar". I don't think the user is here to improve Misplaced Pages.--Peaceworld 10:00, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I should probably add that this is not the first time the user has been uncivil. The user appears to claim that I have an hidden agenda here.--Peaceworld 10:13, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

actually I deleted that message left on your wall because I realised it was not nice and I wrote something different.

Also I stopped editing those pages and I only put the bit regarding the phrase qadiani - all I wanted to say was that it is the official government term in Pakistan (which it is).

Also the only reason I said those things is because you were harassing me and stalking my edits, going into the Israel talk page and siding against me JUST because I was disputing with you is very unfair.

I actually listened to your suggestions on template Islam so I don't one why you're saying I edit warred there.

Sakimonk 13:15, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

could you find evidence evidence where I have harassed you? If not, that may constitute a personal attack.--Peaceworld 14:22, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Sakimonk is also going around labeling muslim groups he doesn't like as Sects. Namely the Barelvi movement Misdemenor (talk) 19:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Loool what!? One minute I have Peaceworld who is attacking me because I'm NOT calling ahmadis a "sect" of Islam and then i have Misdemenor attacking me because I AM calling Barelvis a sect :O, look I haven't bothered you guys so please just leave me alone I'm just trying to get along here but I keep running into you two whereever I go. Peaceworld, I was talking about your talk on israel, you sided against me even though you weren't involved in the convo at all whatsoever, and I got angry and left a message on your talk page which I promptly deleted and replaced with something else after I gave your comments some thought. Sakimonk 04:29, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

In your opinion I "sided against" you, even though I don't see it that way. My comment was (in my opinion) a closing response to the never-ending discussion. Nevertheless, I don't see how that counts as harassment. Secondly I don't see where I have been "attacking" you.--Peaceworld 09:08, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm trying to work with you not against you, these are teething problems but ultimately we're all trying to create a representative picture that accurately captures the essence of a topic. A few reverts here and there are to be expected. I've even revamped my edits drastically to align them with WP:NOV guidelines. Sakimonk 22:06, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• Sakimonk, settle down. Misdemor, if you're referring to this edit with your "sect" comment, then you're being silly--the lead already called it a sect. And I don't know how far along you are in your religious studies, but from where I stand "sect" is not a bad word. Drmies (talk) 02:22, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Harrassment, Race-Baiting Personal Attacks, Edit-Warring and NPOV Violations

• Binksternet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Roscelese (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User:Binksternet and User:Roscelese are tag-teaming me, as retaliation for an edit I made at SPLC that they hate.

After I added a one-sentence, NPOV edit to SPLC, “In a 2010 book-length issue of exposés devoted entirely to the SPLC, the journal The Social Contract dubbed the SPLC, “Profiteers of Hate” (https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Southern_Poverty_Law_Center&oldid=675227514), User:Roscelese immediately reverted me, with the highly POV explanation, “The fact that this is the journal of a white supremacist group is just a coincidence, of course.” (Roscelese, while vandalizing SPLC.)

I undid his revert, whereupon he got his crony User:Binksternet to threaten and intimidate me on my talk page.

“Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, as you did at Southern Poverty Law Center, you may be blocked from editing. Binksternet (talk) 05:27, 9 August 2015 (UTC)”

I responded,

“(Warning: Not adhering to neutral point of view on Southern Poverty Law Center.)” (Binksternet)

“The fact that this is the journal of a white supremacist group is just a coincidence, of course.” (Roscelese, while vandalizing SPLC.) https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Southern_Poverty_Law_Center&oldid=675227077 https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Roscelese

“The foregoing is an example of blatant, POV editing. I did nothing of the sort. I also added no ‘personal analysis’ whatsoever. I simply added NPOV material that contradicted the SPLC advertisement that you and your cronies seek to maintain. You are clearly bullying and threatening me (not to mention projecting like crazy!), in violation of numerous WP rules, on behalf of your political ally, Roscelese. How many times have you already been blocked, for just such unethical behavior?2604:2000:9061:3800:F4C4:E64B:61B1:60B4 (talk) 05:51, 9 August 2015 (UTC)” https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Log/block&page=User%3ABinksternet

User:Roscelese also insinuated that I am somehow a “white supremacist.”

I would appreciate if User:Binksternet and User:Roscelese would be ordered to cease and desist in their harrassment, edit-warring, vicious, personal attacks and blatant NPOV violations.2604:2000:9061:3800:F4C4:E64B:61B1:60B4 (talk) 07:04, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, IS it a white supremacist journal? You left us hanging. Parabolist (talk) 07:46, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

No. But don't take my word for it--read it yourself.2604:2000:9061:3800:F4C4:E64B:61B1:60B4 (talk) 10:37, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• See this post by Doug Weller at WP:AE. That confirms that a very banned user is currently active, and it is likely that throw-away IPs will post rants at various articles and noticeboards for a few days (example). Johnuniq (talk) 07:48, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
  • I do not appreciate your insinuation that I am a banned user’s sockpuppet. Either say it openly, or retract your insinuation.2604:2000:9061:3800:F4C4:E64B:61B1:60B4 (talk) 10:48, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I've just deleted the IP's personal attacks at Talk:Southern Poverty Law Center with an edit summary saying that it is ok to mention, in an impartial manner, that an issue has been raised here. Roscelese's removal of content was of course not vandalism. Doug Weller (talk) 08:45, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I've reverted race-baiting soapboxing on Talk:John Derbyshire by the complainant which has little to do with the article , and the IP has restored it . I don't, however, think this is a sock account, it should be judged by its own actions and should probably be subject to AE sanctions. Acroterion (talk) 12:01, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

We have The Social Contract Press which includes the sentence "In response, the Social Contract Press devoted its Spring 2010 issue criticizing the SPLC, calling them "profiteers of hate"." added as a 1-off edit by an IP 4 years ago. Searches for this publication only pull up a very small number of hits, suggesting it is WP:UNDUE even in its own article and obviously in the SPLC article. Doug Weller (talk) 13:20, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

• The fact that this IP took Bink and me to ANI after one revert each strongly supports the idea that this is a sock, actually. I didn't think it before, but I'm thinking it now. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 14:27, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
• Sock or not, this guy is hateful and WP:NOTHERE. Nothing to do but block him. Binksternet (talk) 15:38, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support NOTHERE block for the IP. BMK (talk) 01:54, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

It is a white supremacist group, according to the SPLC. The SPLC describes hundreds of such groups. Recommend this request be closed and the IP be blocked. TFD (talk) 08:09, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• The IP has reverted again at Talk:John Derbyshire. I'm about to leave on travel and don't have time to take action or do the necessary follow-up. Acroterion (talk) 08:18, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Edit request of SummerSlam (2015)

Could an administrator please place the following matches to SummerSlam (2015)

Bray Wyatt & Luke Harper vs. Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns - Source: and Intercontinental Champion Ryback vs. Big Show vs. The Miz (Triple Threat Match) - Source:

Thanks! TheGRVOfLightning (talk) 09:20, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

@TheGRVOfLightning: Please make your request at Talk:SummerSlam (2015). Sam Walton (talk) 10:55, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

@Samwalton9: Many have tried this. The page has not been edited however. TheGRVOfLightning (talk) 11:04, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Qualified eyes needed at Bhakt

I have no idea what this term means, however this edit got my attention real quick. Anyone out there able to verify this information given? If its a POV or OR related then it needs to be reverted (or perhaps redacted), but as I said that depends on whether or not the info is in fact correct (which is beyond my ability to judge). TomStar81 (Talk) 10:38, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) I reverted the edit, since it (more or less) duplicated the lede with added POV. I considered this link to be a "dead giveaway". Kleuske (talk) 11:32, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Everyday someone comes up wit a new term, this is one of those. It's not OR, just that one writer wrote an article using the term, a few newspapers picked it up and the rest is history as we cover everything in this place. WP:NOTNEWS should be retired soon. I'll post at WT:INB and anyone interested can edit the article. —SpacemanSpiff 14:20, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

CIR at Bhumihar

Please can someone review the efforts of Chrishitch (talk · contribs), in particular at Talk:Bhumihar. While this is underpinned by a content dispute, the real problem seems to be one of competence and tendentiousness. They seem unable to comprehend what our article says regarding the various theories of origin for that caste. We're getting long screeds and after Bgwhite closed the first discussion, Chrishitch began all over again. They still do not understand what our article says and seem to think that the source is giving one theory when in fact it is examining several.

They've had an explanatory note from Bgwhite on their talk page and also formal notification of WP:GS/Caste. They're the latest in a long line of people who have tried to change this reliably sourced article, most apparently being members of the caste in question and several being socks.

We're well into WP:CIR territory and I'm likely to lose my temper sooner rather than later, having kept a lid on it thus far. - Sitush (talk) 20:20, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, there are certainly problems of competence, and at the same time some indications that they're not a new user. I've asked about those indications on their page. Just take it easy, please, Sitush. Sit on the lid. Bishonen | talk 22:28, 9 August 2015 (UTC).

Oh, the indications were there from an early stage and I am gratified to see that someone else has spotted that they might exist. But even without those, this is something that probably should not have required me to raise the issue here. By my standards, which I realise some people think are not that high, I'm sitting remarkably firmly on the lid. It does look like I need yet another break, during which the rubbish will continue to flood umpteen caste-related articles and be accepted by experienced contributors who tinker round the edges with gnomish edits etc, making it harder to spot the real issues that underlie their well-intentioned efforts. They mean well but we really do need to clamp down in this area, especially regarding WP:V - if an addition is not reliably sourced then bin it.

We've lost several of the few admins who take an interest in that area and I'm afraid that it means WP:GS/Caste will lack the support that it should have, sans frequent referrals here. - Sitush (talk) 23:49, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Be more specific than "please review his efforts." The talk page is over 100k, incomprehensible in many places and there's IP addresses, and numerous unsigned comments. Please do a little more than say "look at the talk page" and pointing to a discussion that was closed (without a single link in the discussion to the source in question) and reopened again. Did you ask User:Bgwhite (an administrator who seemed to have forgotten a signature to the close) about it? I still have no idea in all the edits all over the place what is the problematic article edit at issue here (if any). I have zero idea of its a legitimate issue with both sources or just nonsense all around or what. The editor's conduct at Patna seems fine so I don't know what's going on and what sort of ban or block or protection if any is appropriate. As someone who deals with plenty of this caste idiocy, other admins aren't going to jump in if you don't make the discussion easier enough to follow than "here's an editor editing an caste issue, please help." It may be obvious to you what are reliable sources and what are people spouting unsourced dogma about every caste being kings and whatever nonsense de jour but ANI is basically fly-by-screen admins requests. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:23, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for that useless commentary, Ricky81682. You clearly cannot see the wood for the trees; for example, the incomprehensibility is a part of the CIR problem with their edits. Please don't bother responding to me in future. - Sitush (talk) 06:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Don't be a dick to your fellow contributors. Someone asked you for some helpful followup information and you told them to piss up a rope. How does that help resolve anything? Protonk (talk) 16:23, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Edit warring, violation of sanctions, BLP violations

User:JudgeJason has been involved in edit warring at the BLP of British politician Jeremy Corbyn, by repeatedly inserting statements without consensus, using excuses such as " no reason given to exclude". The information is not relevant as it relates to unsubstantiated claims that Corbyn has received financial benefits from a legal charity. I have not reverted his most recent change to avoid a permanent edit war. I have repeatedly asked the editor to take the matter to talk. User:JudgeJason has already been warned by User:John over his edit warring and also advised of the WP:ARBPIA sanctions.

• User:JudgeJason is repeatedly inserting disputed material without consensus, such as here and here, despite this matter having been taken to talk with no consensus to include.
• These matters relate to WP:ARBPIA, and his conduct is in violation of those sanctions
• The information being inserted is a possibly violation of WP:BLP. The High Court has found claims that the legal charity support Hamas are seriously libellous. The Court found the Sunday Express guilty of libel for the same allegations now being made in a BLP.
• User:JudgeJason has used edit summaries such as "stop censoring inconvenient facts" and "and supports Hezbollah. don't censor", in further violation of BLP, when refusing to discuss this matter with other editors
• User:JudgeJason has a history of edit warring and politically-motivated edits, as his recent edits prove
• In addition, despite the High Court judgement, User:JudgeJason initially sought to link the charity, and Corbyn by association, to Hamas in Corbyn's BLP. AusLondonder (talk) 23:58, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, I have already sought to discuss this with JudgeJason on his talk page, however he has refused to revert his edits. AusLondonder (talk) 00:02, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks for the ping. I have warned the user for continued aggressive editing. If he continues there will be a sanction. Should it be a topic ban or just escalating blocks? I lean towards the latter but I am open to others' opinions. --John (talk) 20:14, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm not so sure. As far as I can see, AusLondonder is on a whitewashing exercise, repeatedly removing negative but well-sourced content (, , , , , ) and adding unsourced positive statements (, , (source doesn't support most of the added sentence), , (not supported by the source), , (all apparently to a primary source, may be okay for this use I guess but RS would be much better), (first part of sentence), (UNDUE, and the Islington Gazette is, at best, on the very border of RS), (last para unsourced), , (marked as minor!), (several portions not supported by the source, though probably all true enough)), not to mention one of those really, really WP:LAME slow-motion edit wars over whether it is necessary to mention that England is in the United Kingdom. I'd suggest that, at the very least, this complaint is brought with unclean hands, if not grounds for an outright WP:BOOMERANG. GoldenRing (talk) 10:38, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

User:GoldenRing, what an extraordinarily dishonest and disingenuous exercise in abuse.

• The first four of six items you mention as "repeatedly removing negative but well-sourced content" relate to this very issue being raised! No consensus had been found to include. With regards to the last two issues of "repeatedly removing negative but well-sourced content", that related to sensationalist wording taking the source out of context.
• Regarding "unsourced positive statements" I fail to see how #83 is unsourced - it is an article written by Corbyn himself! #84 was a reinstatement of removed content that I did not originally post, and not unsourced. #85 was, as my edit summary made clear, simply a revert of unexplained removal of content that I did not post
• With regards to #88 and #89 they are sourced per WP:ABOUTSELF and come from Corbyn's website. I cannot understand how #90 would need a direct source, as it is a summing-up of existing content.
• The Islington Gazette is a reliable source, and the local newspaper for Corbyn. Many MP articles have commentary on their expenses. The "parsimonious " comment was widely used in other sources. #92 is not unsourced, it comes from the interview cited in the paragraph directly above.
• Regarding #94, I think that was an encylopedic sentence putting the views into context. Not every single word needs a source directly next to it.
• I'm wondering whether #95 is a mistake, all the issues are clearly sourced. The "lame war" regarding England/UK relates to the repeated unexplained removal of UK birthplace without consensus and against convention
• Your personal attacks on me are very disappointing, given your misleading statements here. Other editors have clearly supported my position. I am not seeking to whitewash anything, the article contains details of his support for Sinn Fein and Argentine sovereignty over the Falklands. I'm seeking to ensure the article remains neutral and meets the policies of WP:UNDUE, WP:NPOV and WP:BLP. I have commented regarding this on the Corbyn talkpage.
• The issue here is not about inclusion or not - it's an editor violating sanctions to push for the inclusion of material AGAINST talkpage consensus. AusLondonder (talk) 10:57, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• I'm glad you brought that up. What talkpage consensus? I see two editors (including yourself) arguing against inclusion and three (including myself) arguing for inclusion, but that discussion is a loooong way from 'consensus'. Or did you have something else in mind?
• To respond to your specific points:

• Since when did we need to seek consensus before including material? |This is what WP:BOLD is about, and reverting on the sole grounds that it lacks consensus is disruptive.
• 83 was a copy-paste error - should have been . "however Corbyn opposes nuclear weapons in all circumstances" is unsourced. 84 ("Corbyn opposes segregation at such a young age") is not supported by the source cited, whether you inserted it originally or not.
• 88 and 89, well I think we more or less agree on this, though a secondary source would be better for someone who is going to be contentious.
• I'll cede the Islington Gazette, I'm not going to get into an argument here about whether it meets WP:RS. 92 - fair enough. It looks unsourced, my apologies.
• 94 - it seems a pointlessly positive addition to me. If it was on its own, I'd say meh, but as part of a pattern it's worrying.
• Your defence of 95 is a doosy - the source cited does not call him a socialist, does not mention poverty, does not state that he voted against introducing tuition fees, does not mention railways, and does not discuss taxation. What's left in your insertion that is supported by the cited source is that he voted against increases in tuition fees and supports nationalisation of some sort. If this is your approach to sourcing BLPs, we have a problem! Whether to mention that England is in the UK is one of those issues that has me saying, "Why do either of you care about this???" but I'm sure it has its place.
• I'm sure you are very disappointed - pointing it out here wasn't enough, apparently, and you felt the need to repeat your disappointment at my talk page - but, given the above, I'm happy to disappoint. Criticising your approach to sourcing is not a personal attack. GoldenRing (talk) 11:22, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Another deliberately misleading series of statements. "What talkpage consensus? I see two editors (including yourself) arguing against inclusion" - you didn't come until after I posted this issue at ANI!

• Consensus is required when a change is opposed by other editors - several editors including myself opposed the addition of this material. That is not disruptive.
• "Corbyn opposes nuclear weapons in all circumstance" is paraphrased from his article and his stance is well documented anyway in other sources at his BLP.
• Regarding 95, all the statements are important and factual and discussed in other sources. Most importantly, it is not libellous or in violation oof sanctions. AusLondonder (talk) 08:13, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Eik Corell blocking TALK PAGE discussion by repeatedly erasing it

This member is involved in a revert war on List of Internet forums and has erased the entire discussion to resolve it on the talk page three times. In erasing the talk page he refers to a call to arms on a messageboard to war with wikipedia.

Removing irrelevant blahblahlah courtesy of this tribalwar.com/forums/archive/t-680335.html thread

72.181.218.181 (talk) 00:14, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I asked the editor. However, the problem is that the "categories" column is entirely made-up WP:OR so I've removed the entire column. I opened it up on the talk page. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I saw the user forcing their edits through and threatening to get admins involved against anyone stopping them. Combined with the meatpuppetry here, it seemed logical to just remove the entry since pretty much any time video game forum members flood to a Misplaced Pages article, it usually only serves as a space to rant and rave at each other, especially when the thread above was what brought them here. Eik Corell (talk) 13:01, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm a long time contributor to that thread and not part of the meatpuppetry. I was not involved in the article edit war. I don't know of anything in the dispute resolution process that recommends erasing a lengthy discussion among many editors on a talk page - three times - regardless of who is participating and what side of the dispute they are on. 72.181.218.181 (talk) 13:49, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Legal Threat by Craxd1

The following post by User:Craxd1 appears to be a legal threat. It says that the legal action will may be by others, not by the poster, but it appears to be intended nonetheless to have a chilling effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk%3AAbel_Clarin_de_la_Rive&type=revision&diff=675322010&oldid=675151351

Recommend a block at least until original poster understands the threat policy and reconsiders.

By the way, the original poster also has a frivolous request for arbitration, but appears to be about to withdraw it.  Done

Changing wording in a way that doesn't make a difference. NLT is NLT. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:23, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Robert McClenon (talk) 00:18, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

First, has the legal threat been resolved or not? Your done checkmark is more confusing than helpful. Third, next time, can you quote the actual threat instead of this vagueness? There's no actual words "legal action" used there and I'm not generally in the mood to read hundred-word screeds of round-about language like that but you aren't helping and are being equally if not more vague here. Don't mis-quote with words that aren't there and ignore what the editor actually says expecting others to read your mind. The editor says "I catch you at it again, and you'll be before the Arbitration Committee as fast as you can say Jesus" which is not a legal threat per se but a Misplaced Pages threat (which sounds ominously like a legal threat to some people). The editor goes on and on and I don't care but fine, the "libelous" bullshit is enough for me to block for now. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:35, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Improper revert by User:Calidum

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Since 2005, the infobox at Hillary Clinton has used the full name, Hillary Rodham Clinton, which was also the title of the article until a move request earlier this year. Following that move, it was proposed that the infobox name should be changed, and the infobox was in fact changed back and forth several times until User:Bearian randomly locked the article at a stage where the infobox included the proposed change. After a long discussion on the matter at Talk:Hillary Clinton, User:Sandstein closed the discussion, finding that there was no consensus for a change. In accordance with WP:NO CONSENSUS, which states that "n discussions of proposals to add, modify or remove material in articles, a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit", I restored the status quo ante. This was immediately reverted by Calidum with the assertion that the closer apparently intended something other than the "no consensus" finding in the close. I request that Calidum's improper revert of my policy-based restoration of the status quo ante be reversed, and that he be advised against further edit-warring on the matter. bd2412 T 00:25, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I neither took part in the discussion nor !voted in the RFC, but I can see that your interpretation is wrong and you are misrepresenting some facts. The closer's intent is obvious: "That means we have a majority for "HC", but not consensus, but even less of a consensus to change the current (as of this writing) status of "HC"" (my bolding for emphasis). Calidum's revert was in line with the closing. If you have an issue with the closer's version of what the proper status quo is, you should ask him to review his closure.--William Thweatt 00:50, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't see that bd2412 has misrepresented anything. What do you feel was misrepresented? Omnedon (talk) 01:01, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

@WilliamThweatt: I did ask the closing admin to review the prior status of the page, but he has lost interest and washed his hands of it. The fact that he referenced the "as of this writing" status indicates that he was unaware that this was not the status of the article before the dispute arose. Editors should not be able to game the system by edit warring until an article gets stuck on their preferred version, and use that to effect a disputed change without consensus. bd2412 T 01:04, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

For some background I would like to point out a previous ANI thread on the matter and the successful move request that proceeded it. Back to the matter at hand, the name parameter of an article's infobox almost always matches the title. To deny that a move request would also affect parts of the article (infobox included) is WP:WIKILAWYERING and a violation of WP:NOTBURO. The title parameter of the infobox matched the article's title for the past decade and a no consensus close reinforces that that should continue -- in this case meaning the infobox should say "Hillary Clinton." That was how I interpreted Sandstein's closure. I have also already asked about this on Sandstein's talk page. A simple solution would be to have another admin or panel of admins review the relevant RFC, provided Sandstein does not object. Calidum T|C 01:03, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Anyone who thought that was the case should have brought it up during the move request. There is no policy stating that an absence of consensus ties the infobox name to the page title. There is a status quo ante visible throughout the article history, and that is all that "the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal" has ever meant. bd2412 T 01:12, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Please don't obfuscate the actual issue here, Calidum, by re-arguing the RFC. There was no consensus. We're all agreed on that.

The status quo ante was HRC. Calidium and colleagues were edit-warring to impose HC when the article was protected and an RFC was raised. The wording of Sandstein's close is ambiguous, and will just draw this thing out even more. User:Sandstein, clarify what you mean. Your present wording is being used by Calidium and colleagues to push their bold change onto the article, despite no consensus. Is that what you intended? Be clear.

I really don't see how there can be no consensus for a change from HRC to HC but "even less consensus" to retain HRC, unless you are just referring to the numbers (15 !votes vs. 20 !votes). If you intend to sit on your hands here and just let this thing fester and consume more and more ordinarily-productive editors' time, I consider that to be grossly irresponsible.

It looks very much like you didn't notice what the status quo ante was when you made your decision. That's fine. I don't think it was mentioned in the RFC. But if that's the reason for your odd comment in the close, please explain that and clarify your meaning and save us all a lot of time. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 01:22, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

We might agree it was closed as no consensus, but we clearly disagree on what no consensus means in this instance since the closer said " less of a consensus to change the current (as of this writing) status of 'HC.'" Given that, it's hardly irrelevant to provide background on the dispute since BD's real issue here seems to be the RFC itself and not my single revert. Calidum T|C 01:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Your "single revert" imposed the change for which there was no consensus. If you would like to create a rule requiring the infobox to match the article title, go ahead and propose that somewhere. This dispute is not the vehicle to create a new rule. bd2412 T 02:09, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Rereading this, it's now beginning to look to me like you acknowledge there is no consensus and you are aware of the status quo ante but, because there is a majority in favour of HC, you think the article should be changed from the status quo ante (HRC to HC). Is that what's going on here, User:Sandstein? All very confusing. Please clarify. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 02:19, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

As the RfC closer, I did not take into account any status quo ante, but only attempted to determine what, if any, consensus, emerged from the RfC itself. The position of RfC closer gives me no particular authority beyond that, so I don't see why I should have any determinations to make regarding the past or future of the article. How to proceed, and what if any weight to give my opinion, is now a matter for interested editors to determine through the editorial process, which last I checked does not involve this noticeboard. If it helps, I don't object to other admins re-examining the RfC.  Sandstein  04:48, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. So, since the closer finds no consensus for the change, we continue with the status quo ante until such time as a consensus to change becomes evident, per WP:NO CONSENSUS. I'll go and restore the status quo ante now. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 07:21, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Done. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 07:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I am no longer a sysop, so I don't have the magic buttons any more. Also, at the time, I was not supporting the subject, but now I am a proud supporter of Hillary Rodham Clinton for President. That being said, the clear consensus has been that HRC is her name and initials. Bearian (talk) 12:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

User:Gob Lofa disruptive editing on Troubles related articles

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles to do with the Troubles are subject to arbitration remedies due to the sensitive nature of the subject matter. User:Gob Lofa has been intent on pushing subtle or blatant bias, misusing sources and using personal opinion as justification, mixed with occasional edit-warring. They may also have breached the 1RR Troubles restriction in regards to the Kingsmill massacre article, which I detail below.

What follows is not an exhaustive list of troublesome edits/behaviour by Gob Lofa, and is a selection of the main instances that highlight Gob Lofa's issues that affect the Troubles arena. There is other issues that other editors are better able to detail, and one of them I know is preparing their own AN/I report on Gob Lofa, so I will leave that to them, however I am getting weary of policing Gob Lofa's edits. Whilst there are instances where I have worked with Gob Lofa no problem, even recently, I have to admit that I have no good faith left in regards to this editor, and my own attitude to them on talk pages is not always as diplomatic and AGF as it should be.

McGurk's Bar bombing

• Here Gob Lofa removes a statement and adds in a context changing piece of OR, "launched armed campaigns" to "retaliated". , providing no sourcing whatsoever.
• I reverted and that was it for 9 days until they decided to repeat the edit using personal opinion as their vindication, personal opinion that only makes mention of one of the two groups mentioned in the statement, yet still applying it to them both:
• I once again inform them of WP:BRD, add a source for the sentence they keep removing and remove the OR. Likewise pointing out the obvious
• A month later Gob Lofa decides to return and push his edit again with the edit summary of "See talk" . As anyone can see, there is no consensus or anything at the talk page for Gob Lofa to even get the impression that they can go ahead with their contentious edit.

Ulster Defence Regiment

• Here Gob Lofa adds in personal opinion citing "well documented" as their justification . User:Gavin Lisburn reverts them asking them to take it to talk .
• Gob Lofa restores it claiming that it is referenced . This they are reverted by User:Flexdream .
• Next Gob Lofa decides to take the personal opinion and OR furhter . Reverted again by Gavin Lisburn .
• Nearly two months and 15 intermediate revisions later Gob Lofa decides to revert Gavin Lisburn again and still providing no evidence for their claims. Once again Gob Lofa is reverted .
• Gob Lofa returns with sources but these do not bac up their claim and they are reverted by Flexdream .
• Regardless Gob Lofa tries to force it again . Gavin Lisburn removes one as it didn't even mention the UDR specifically. They then restore "some" per the talk discussion . Flexdream removes the other of Gob Lofa's dubious sources as it doesn't substantiate the claims Gob Lofa is making.
• Gob Lofa then lets the issue lie, however decides to embark upon an unsourced weasel-worded rewrite , which I amend as Gob Lofa added in very subjective wording that is not backed up the sources they provided.

Chronology of Provisional Irish Republican Army actions (1970–79)

• Here Gob Lofa changes a sourced statement to add in contentious OR so that the sentence states that the army looted hundreds of houses. I remove the "and looted" telling Gob Lofa to provide a direct quote from the source .
• Gob Lofa then provides a source , however I have to reword the statement as the source Gob Lofa provided did not state that hundreds of homes were looted but that the army admitted that their were "incidents" of looting. This is outrageous and disruptive POV pushing.
• The next issue on this article is Gob Lofa removing wording from a sourced sentence stating that it is speculation . I revert asking them do they have the source to know it's not in it .
• Gob Lofa removes it again stating that it is not in one of the sources , however I have to revert again as there are two sources given. Just because it is not in one does not mean the other does not have it .
• After reverting, I decide to show Gob Lofa what they should do in such circumstances by adding a request quote tag to the statement .

Curragh incident

• Gob Lofa decides to make minor changes to this article citing that its awkward etc. I revert it stating that the wording is fine. Regardless Gob Lofa in a clear act of "I am right, everyone else is wrong" restores the edit .

Billy Fox (politician)

• I myself perform no reverts one this article, however this article is littered with reversions of Gob Lofa edits . Also Gob Lofa has been slow-edit warring on this article since 8th September 2013.
• Despite opening a talk page discussion back in February 2014 on the issue which was still going on till the 28th July 2015, Gob Lofa has garnered not one bit of support for their edit with the other five editors (including me) who have commented on the discussion requesting he provide sources.
• Gob Lofa has provided two sources, however neither back up their claim that Billy Fox identified as an "Ulster Protestant". One source doesn't even mention Billy Fox, whilst the other one makes mention of Protestant in one part of it and Ulster in another, but not as an ethnic term, meaning Gob Lofa is using synthesis.
• Gob Lofa has been slow edit-warring over this issue since they first tried the edit on 8th Septmeber 2013 with their latest being 12th July 2015: , , , , , , , - that's eight times.

Kingsmill massacre

• Adding unsourced original research and POV (the very last addition)
• - again adding further OR
• These edits are OR and opinion, evidenced by Flexdream challenging them as not being in the source quoted
• After this Gob Lofa adds a reference however it does not back up their statement as my revert clearly points out
• Gob Lofa then restores their edit within 4 hours of making it regardless of issues raised . This may be a breach of 1RR. They were notified of 1RR in regards to Trouble articles on 1st August 2015, this breach was done on the 8th August 2015. It could be argued that it was not technically an exact revert as they changed the tense of a word, however that could simply be a case of gaming the system considering there is still an issue with the edit. Also consider that they still hit revert (or rollback) as it does state "Undid revision" despite making an alteration.
• I again reverted back to the citation needed version informing Gob to stop adding sources that do not back up their claims to which they decide to revert me whilst making a change to the edit that still does not solve one of the core issues raised about the source . Why they needed to do a revert here I don't know and I can only see it as antagonism.

Gob Lofa's edit is biased and flawed because they are stating that the case is "regarding UDR involvement", despite the direct quote he provides in the edit summary stating "because of strong indications that Ulster Defence Regiment colluded with the UVF". Gob Lofa is presenting speculation as fact. The edit also doesn't state that Reavey took out the case, so a source is still needed for that or a rewording.

Civil_Authorities_(Special_Powers)_Act_(Northern_Ireland)_1922

• Here Gob Lofa tries to enforce their viewpoint on Northern Ireland's status by pushing their edit into the article four times between 30th July and 6th August despite being reverted by three different editors (me, User:Snowded and User:Ebonelm) , , , .
• The second last is the most ironic because despite making the initial edit that was reverted he demands that Ebonelm argues their case on the talk page whilst they don't even go near the talk page until after Snowded reverts him and even then he didn't even argue a case. The result of the talk page discussion shows that Gob Lofa doesn't even accept or is unwilling to admit and accept that they were edit-warring.

RUC Special Branch

• An article created by Gob Lofa.
• Here I revert a clear misuse of a source where Gob Lofa simply is presenting speculation as fact. The source clearly states "perceived". Also the subjective term "infiltration" is likewise not in the source, so I amend the statement to be more accurate .
• Despite the irony of Gob Lofa's edit summary they revert back to their OR and bias .
• After this I take it to talk and then notify the UK and Ireland WikiProjects so that more input can be sought. Having done that Gob Lofa is quick to restore the amendments to their contentious edit despite their assertions that it itself was OR. As far as I am concerned they were intent to push their POV until it was put up to a wider audience and they realised that no other editor would agree with their edit.

Bloody Sunday (1972)

• A highly sensitive article.
• I come across highly contentious categories in this article whilst checking up on Gob Lofa's edits to the categories . These categories state that Bloody Sunday was an act of British terrorism despite the article itself not making this statement anywhere in it.
• Gob Lofa decides to re-add the terrorist category but this time amended . I revert stating that Gob needs to provide reliable sourcing that it was indeed terrorism .
• On 20th July an IP suddenly appears to add in the claim that Bloody Sunday was a terrorist incident . Maybe it is related, maybe not.
• Despite not once discussing the issue on the talk page Gob Lofa decides to reinsert the terrorist category citing a source . Another issue with this edit is that Gob Lofa "reverts" my edit I made on the 14th July, which is 20 days and 12 intermediate edits later . The fact the only thing that seems to have changed despite reverting 12 intermediate edits is the addition of the category, meaning Gob Lofa is intentionally clicking revert whilst keeping any intermediate edits. What is the point of this other than being provocative?
• Snowded reverts Gob Lofa's addition requesting a direct quote, to which Gob Lofa does take to talk, to which I provide the rationale to the problem.
• It also turns out that Gob Lofa was the editor who introduced the contentious terrorist categories I originally removed into this article back on 8th January 2015 , changed it a bit on 5th February 2015 and n same day added the other .

This article is sensitive enough without such contentious content being added.

Birmingham pub bombings

• Here Gob Lofa changes "terrorism" to "violence" , to which Snowded reverted .
• Just over a day later Gob Lofa restores their edit regardless . User:Kieronoldham restores "terrorism" adding two references .
• The articles talk page shows Gob Lofa's unreasonable attitude trying to argue what is the sources definition of terrorism .

What this shows is Gob Lofa's blatant bias where it is OK for actions by the British Army (Bloody Sunday) to be classified as terrorism however actions by the IRA to not be so.

Democratic Unionist Party

• Here an IP removed two infobox ideaology terms . Gob Lofa restored them (note they didn't do a revert for the IP). Snowded then reverts Gob Lofa citing OR and synthesis.
• Gob Lofa agrees with Snowded about one of the sources so omits it but restores the rest. I revert as the sources do not explicitly say that the DUP are what is claimed and that it is synthesis .

This helps show the issue Gob Lofa has with sources and being able to interpret or use them properly. Despite the fact none of the sources backed up the claims, they were happy enough to include two of them.

1971 Balmoral Furniture Company bombing

• Alters the position John White held within the UDA despite no evidence to state that he was the leader of the organisation . His own article states that he was a leading member of it, not the leader. Instead his article states that he was the leader of a cover-name branch of the organisation called the UFF, which is what the Balmoral article states, but Gob Lofa for some reason seems to object to that. I revert clearly stating why .
• Gob Lofa reverts anyway regardless. I restore and tell them to take it to talk . Four days on still no talk page discussion from Gob Lofa to argue their case.

Ulster

• Here Gob Lofa alters a statement, provides two sources, yet despite claiming "Remove Irish nationalist rot" in their edit summary, they keep the original source. Having put that edit into the article myself I can categorically state that it is not Irish nationalist rot, and the original source that Gob Lofa didn't even bother removing despite it not backing up their amended statement (which on its own gives false backing to a statement) is from a well-respected historian who is definitely not of an Irish nationalist persuasion. Thus Gob Lofa is using his own personal opinion as justification for making changes to sourced information.

Protestants of Ulster

• A very minor issue, but one none-the-less that typifies Gob Lofa's inability to accurately source statements.
• Alters a sourced statement to backup "Ethnoreligious" , which I alter to actually match what the source states which is "Ethnonational", which is obviously not the same the thing.
• I also have to reword to better match the source this piece of subjective and slanted wording .

End notes

I must also make mention of administrator User:JamesBWatson. They blocked Gob Lofa for their behaviour on 10th July 2015, however decided to unblock Gob Lofa two days later, which I contested.

A week later I raised a few issues, not too indepth, on Gob Lofa's page tagging JamesBWatson seeing as they have experience with Gob Lofa. All that did was, for me anyways, call JamesBWatson's judgment as an administrator into question as they did nothing but defend Gob Lofa, to which I issued a refute. Though it was my fault for not providing JamesBWatson with more indepth evidence of the issues I mentioned at the time before and after his response. Though Gob Lofa has decided to help provide many new examples since his 2 day block. JamesBWatson's quick unblock and defence of Gob Lofa may have only served to embolden Gob Lofa to continue as they are despite their block log and recent let off.

The above is not an exhaustive list of Gob Lofa's issues and I have not even gone into their history beyond July unless it is at a particular article where there have been issues recently or have been involved in beforehand. No doubt there are many more examples in the history records.

Personally I believe Gob Lofa should be topic-banned from Troubles articles, or be made to request an edit to a Troubles article on the talk page just like IPs have to do on semi-protected articles. Whilst they do do many minor edits that are not troublesome, even if not needed, their attitude in the area is disruptive and problematic and has antagonised several editors, all from different political bias'/viewpoints. Like in all my time on Misplaced Pages I can't ever remember me and Snowded actually agreeing on something! I haven't even looked at their articles to do with things outside the Troubles and UK, so there could well be further issues, however the Troubles area is an incredibly sensitive area and quite a few of Gob Lofa's edits in that area are not beneficial to the project or its integrity and sanctions are merited to try to encourage them to edit more responsibly in that arena or elsewhere. They may also still be guilty of breaching 1RR on a Troubles restricted article despite knowing of the restriction. I also believe that Gob Lofa may be abusing their rollback privilege with their reverts, especially the ones that seem to not affect intermediate revisions of articles, but still result in me getting notifications that my edits have been reverted.

The one thing for sure is that failure to do so something only further emboldens Gob Lofa's attitude. Mabuska 00:41, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Wow, I understand by this you have an issue you absolutely want resolved, this is probably not the place with that amount of evidence. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 01:29, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

The original poster acknowledges that ArbCom discretionary sanctions are in effect. So why is this filed here, rather than at Arbitration Enforcement? Maybe because ANI doesn't have explicit word limits. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the reference above linke dto my name. --Gavin Lisburn (talk) 01:40, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

As Mabuska says we are normally on opposite sides of the fence on NI issues but we clearly have a disruptive editor here. I think its better at Arbitration Enforcement. The problem is 80% of the edits are gnome like improvements and very useful, but they seem to be a cover for ideological changes and it is exhausting tracking through them. I've been trying to think of a way to word a proposed sanction that would cover the case. ----Snowded 05:02, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Mabuska has mentioned me above, and also posted to my talk page calling my attention to this report, so I will make a brief response. Mabuska says that my judgement is questionable, because I "defended" Gob Lofa. Indeed, Mabuska goes so far as to specifically say that I "did nothing but defend Gob Lofa" (my emphasis). Perhaps Mabuska did not notice my final sentence in the discussion in question: "None of this means that I think nothing in Gob Lofa's editing might reasonably be criticised, but I do think that the way that Mabuska goes about making criticisms is very unhelpful." That is not doing "nothing but defending Gob Lofa": it is mainly criticising Mabuska, and in the course of doing so also limiting the degree of any "defence" of Gob Lofa, by making it explicit that I did think that there are problems with Gob Lofa's editing. Also, when I lifted the block that I had placed, I did not say that I thought there were no problems with Gob Lofa's editing: I merely said that on reflection my block was disproportionate to the problems for which I had placed the block. Further, in answer to an accusation by Mabuska that Gob Lofa had made a personal attack, I wrote "the wording used by Gob Lofa may not have been ideal, but to call it a 'personal attack' seems a bit extreme." Both "may not have been ideal" and "seems a bit extreme" were attempts to use minimal language, in the interests of keeping things as cool as possible, but I was indicating that I thought both editors in question were deserving of criticism. I was not "defending" Gob Lofa's comment: I was criticising Mabuska's handling of the matter. Anyone interested in reading the whole of my response to Mabuska in that discussion can do so at User talk:Gob Lofa#July 2015 again, but I think I have said enough to demonstrate the following two facts: (1) it is certainly not true that I "did nothing but defend Gob Lofa"; I also criticised Mabuska, and (2) my "defence" of Gob Lofa was at the level of attempting to keep the problems with his editing (or at least, those I was aware of) in proportion, and more than once I specifically stated that did not mean I thought there were no problems.

I have no intention whatever of becoming heavily involved in any of the numerous controversies among Misplaced Pages editors about Northern Ireland, any more than in the controversies about India/Pakistan, Israel/Plaestine, The Balkans, etc etc. However, I will just say that, while what I have seen of Gob Lofa's editing suggests there are some problems, what I have seen of Mabuska's editing suggests to me that there are problems there too, and all editors contributing to this discussion should take into account all relevant facts, no matter what editor is concerned. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:16, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I posted this here because other than the subject matter, which is covered by ArbCom, there are problems such as possible abuse of rollback privleges, source misuse and disruptive editing that I believed was more applicable to here. I will however take this to ArbCom instead. User:JamesBWatson you are more than entitled to, in fact I insist, that you provide evidence of your claims at my talkpage. Mabuska 13:29, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I request this AN/I be closed having taken it to ArbCom: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Request_concerning_Gob_Lofa. Mabuska 15:28, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

User constantly revert my edits...

Dear Administrators,

Recently I took care of few wikipages. I started to edit information on Mad Max (band) and Roland Bergmann (draft) pages. Unfortunately, constant interruptions and re-editing page by Walter Görlitz, is not allowing me to keep the pages valuable. I wrote in a comment of editing that a source provided by the user is not reliable, contains wrong and incomplete information. However, the user is keep putting the reference to the page. Please, do something with this!

https://en.wikipedia.org/Mad_Max_(band)

Kind regards, WikiSilv

This is a request that's best made at the edit warring noticeboard. --w 05:21, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Not really. The issue is that the editor insists on removing what I believe to be a RS for a specific fact, the band's date of establishment. I have taken that up at WP:RSN as I requested of the other editor. WikiSilv has been drafting an article and put it up for acceptance, but the sources are poor and I have been notating the errors, and the article has improved, but the subject still fails WP:GNG. It appears that the other editor doesn't want help so I'll stay away from the draft article, but the other article, which was unsourced until recently, when I added sources, is a different problem. If I interpret correctly, WikiSilv wants to own the pages and not accept help from others. Not likely fodder for ANI, but the editor isn't a native English-speaker either. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Seems like a normal ANI discussion. The solution may be full protection so that the editor has to work out sourcing things properly via talk page edit requests. Sounds more like a situation where the article should have been started in draftspace (doesn't solve WP:OWN but does keep it downplayed for now) and then brought here. Perhaps suggest that to User:WikiSilv? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:16, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I think the editor has tired of my suggestions and notices. Feel free to try. Might be a better case for WP:DRN? Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:RFPP may be better. Is the band notable? Only this one seems like a reliable source. I was thinking AFD. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:47, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

I would support an AfD there. A polite decline of Draft:Roland Bergmann might also be appropriate at this point. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:52, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Userpage vandalism on my talk page

Hello, could someone please semi-protect my talkpage for a while, revdel the latest changes and handle the IP-editor(s) involved? Many thanks. GermanJoe (talk) 08:10, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, the trolling has stopped for now (I am so glad, that we follow the dogma of free IP-editing with zero actual proof of its advantages). GermanJoe (talk) 08:41, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:COP-related CfD closure review

Per WP:CLOSECHALLENGE I'd like a closure review on Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 May 25#1st to 5th century BC births:

1. Trying to sort it out with the closer, to no avail: User talk:MER-C#Problem with closure of Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 May 25#1st to 5th century BC births
2. Prior to that I had attempted to stop the bot implementing the closure, but the bot already had completed the task

Problem with the CfD as closed: overrides WP:COPDEF and WP:SEPARATE by adding categories like Category:15 BC to biographical articles. I'm OK with merging BC "birth by year" categories in BC "birth by decade" categories, and recategorizing the affected biographical articles along these lines, not with the "dual upmerge" of "birth by year" categories in biographical articles to both a "birth by decade" and a "by year" category (e.g. ) while this is undesirable overcategorization ("birth by date" categories are covered by WP:COPDEF, "by year" categories are not), and makes the BC by year categories mixed people/non-people categories (not allowed by WP:SEPARATE).

I started removing "by year" categories (diff), which is uncontroversial per WP:COP, but there are too many and any cooperation of bot operators seems to be impossible as long as there's no apparent consensus this is indeed what should be done. Also Misplaced Pages:Bot policy#Categorization of people proved to be ineffective in this case (see Misplaced Pages talk:Bots/Requests for approval#ArmbrustBot 4)

@Marcocapelle: pinging initiator of the CfD to know their view whether they were aware about the COPDEF/SEPARATE issues when submitting the CfD, and if not, whether it would have made any difference when being aware? Same question to the others participating in the CfD: Peterkingiron, Vegaswikian and Ricky81682.

Tx for considering this. --Francis Schonken (talk) 16:43, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Agreed that "dual upmerge" of "birth by year" categories in biographical articles to both a "birth by decade" and a "by year" category, would be highly undesirable. The non-birth year categories would be flooded with birth trivia, when they're suppose to contain other events, and have the births in a subcat.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  13:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
• I wasn't aware of any issues, for what it's worth in this stage. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:43, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Similar

The closure at Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 May 30#1st to 6th century BC deaths has the same problem, I notified bot operator and closing admin of the topic being discussed here. --Francis Schonken (talk) 15:25, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Too late – contents already merged, see WP:CFDWM. At least we can hold off deletion of the old categories. – Fayenatic London 17:58, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Forward

Are we in agreement about these points:

1. The closures of MER-C on Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 May 25#1st to 5th century BC births and of Fayenatic london on Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 May 30#1st to 6th century BC deaths are undone, in view of the WP:COP incompatibility;
2. The recategorizations and (partial) category deletions resulting from the now suspended closures are undone by bot
3. Marcocapelle or whoever thinks this a good idea are of course at liberty to resubmit a similar CfD that keeps within the provisions of WP:COP.

I'd agree with a simple removal of "year" categories on biographical articles by bot, but as this may lead to other issues, I think it best to fully retract our steps to the situation "ante", and take it from there. --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:42, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• I would have no objection against removing them from "year" categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:52, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Subtropical-man

I propose that Subtropical-man be topic-banned from all matters concerning deletion of pages concerning pornography, including in particular the removal of PROD nominations.
Subtropical-man rather volubly disagrees with the revisions to WP:PORNBIO enacted early last year, despite their being supported by an "overwhelming consensus among experienced editors." He has, for more than a year, expressed his disagreement by objecting to virtually all proposed deletion nominations of porn performer articles, without regard to the merits of the nominations, with uncommunicative edit summaries. (Examples: , , , , . A full listing would require significant work by an administrator, because most of the deprodded articles have gone to AFD and been deleted uncontroversially, removing the relevant edit history from public view.) This indiscriminate PROD removal has led to scores of unnecessary AFDs, leading to complaints about the volume. See comments on @Spartaz:'s talk page here . Subtropical-man's behavior in the resulting and related AFDs has also been disruptive, in recent months including:

• False accusations of personal attacks for criticism of his arguments Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Katrina Kraven
• Striking comments by other editors (in this case, @Tarc:)
• Ridiculously tendentious arguments ("how do I know if current WP:PORNBIO is not prank by some IP?")
• False (and rather obviously false) accusation of topic ban violations Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Shane Diesel (this AFD is messy, but see my comment here
• Harassing an editor he disagreed with by refiling an SPI claim without providing any new evidence, after the initial claim was rejected "in the absence of actual evidence". (original); (refile)

The length and range of misbehaviour is striking, but the indiscriminate, WP:POINTY deprodding is itself enough to justify the topic ban. Subtropical-man has pretty clearly acknowledged that his PROD removals are not made in any good faith dispute over the subject's notability under the applicable guidelines, but to force interminable rearguments about the applicable SNG every time an effort is made to enforce it . And "arguments" like "how do I know if current WP:PORNBIO is not prank by some IP?" would never be made by a reasonable, good faith user. Eighteen months of this has proved far too disruptive and wasted far too much of the community's time, and it's time for it to stop. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 16:51, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support topic ban Subtropical man !votes indiscriminately "keep" at all discussions without checking out, pondering and evaluating the actual merit of any particular subject, and thus doesn't add anything of value to the discussion. Kraxler (talk) 17:01, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support Borderline WP:DE - editor should take this as a warning a think themselves lucky it's not going to harsher terms, such as a block. Lugnuts 17:26, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
• Please see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Pornography/Deletion, see links to AfD pages from 2014. I voted only in part, not in all AfD about pornography. In many Afd pages I don't vote, if the article was weak or person are not notable. If a person are notable, in my opinion, I voting for keep. Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) wrote: "This indiscriminate PROD removal has led to scores of unnecessary AFDs" - solution of problem: please stop try removed very many pornography articles. My WP:DEPRODs are problem? I did it only a dozen times. AfD is necessary for many articles, instead speedy delection (without discussion), for example: Dee (actress). Why deprod ? Please see article, this article is extensive, has a sources, image, 5x interwiki. And speedy delection? No, should be discussion. Please Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Pornography/Deletion, almost always vote for delete the same users: The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo), Spartaz, Gene93k, Davey2010, Tarc; other users very rarely vote. Now they're trying do topic banned for opposition. Subtropical-man talk
  (en-2) 18:05, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose topic ban - I'm not at all a fan of "Sub-tropicalman's" dePRODing of articles without improvement (I've tried to treat PRODs in the past like actual AfDs without needed the discussion), but the actual PROD guidelines technically allow for that kind of editing behavior: "Any editor may object to the deletion by simply removing the tag" and "To object to and therefore permanently prevent a proposed deletion, remove the 'proposed deletion/dated' tag from the article. You are encouraged, but not required, to" (emphasis mine).

Not all of the above evidence actually shows disruptive behavior either IMO, since Jennifer Luv & Babysitters (film) both won some likely major awards, the Shane Diesel AfD (and resulting DRV) was a huge mess that was mostly caused by a voluminous sockpuppet ("Redban"), and those supposed "bogus" SPI reports yielded some actual, needed results on that front.

What's mostly, really going on here at this time is that some are trying to engage in some (rapid?) "trimming of the fat" from many of the pornography-related BLPs on Misplaced Pages, which pleases some & possibly upsets some others. In any event, it is what it is... Guy1890 (talk) 02:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment - If I see one more thread here about conduct issues involving pornography, I will propose that pornography be placed under community general sanctions to get a few of the pro-porn and a few of the anti-porn editors topic-banned. For now, try being civil about pornography, even though some of you love it and some of you hate it. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:21, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support topic ban - The deprodding although annoying isn't really that bad, It's the !voting that I'm concerned with, Sub Man has a habit of simply putting "Notable" or "per above" and or on occasions will Keep "per nominations" (Despite being told nominations don't count inregards to PORNBIO), It's simply distruptive and despite being guided more than once he's simply ignored everyone and continued regardless so personally feel Topic banning is the right move here. –Davey2010 19:33, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: generally, opinion by opposition of Subtropical-man i.e: The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo), Spartaz, Gene93k, Davey2010, Tarc (who always vote differently than Subtropical-man) is clear. The opposition is opposition. Welcome are the opinions of other users, neutral users. Subtropical-man talk
  (en-2) 21:07, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment. Since you are bringing me in, that "opposition" to your keep votes is the application of consensus guidelines that you reject wholesale and challenging of arguments not supported by facts. • Gene93k (talk) 22:22, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support topic ban for The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) and Davey2010. I agree with opinion by user Robert McClenon (above), there are two sides in case: pro-porn and anti-porn editors, if topic-banned for pro-porn side, must to be also for anti-porn side. Anti-porn editors are responsible for remove hundreds of articles, they vote for the removal in all AfD pages about pornography in the last period. The length and range of misbehaviour is striking (see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Pornography/Deletion#Closed) and their actions can be considered as destructive to Misplaced Pages. Previously, user Раціональне анархіст (Pax) and earlier user Redban who very many porn-articles marked to deletion got topic-ban (in AN/I). These users doing the same thing, so. Subtropical-man talk
  (en-2) 21:07, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
• Comment I am not seeing the type or depth of disruption that justifies community sanctions here. Without a whole lot more diffs on actionable misbehavior this does not seems like something that should be up for proposal. Proponents, please add more specific history about earlier issues, diffs, interventions, earlier admin actions, etc. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 02:47, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose There doesn't seem to be a great deal of disruptive behavior going on. Simply objecting to an AfD, even a poorly thought out objection, isn't worthy of a topic ban. Looking at his contribution log doesn't show any sort of edit warring or other. His English seems fairly broken so some of his replies come off strangely. I don't see anything on WP:DRN (which would seem a more appropriate venue for this) and no one has apparently tried talking to him (all I see on his talk page is a nomination for a userspace deletion Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Subtropical-man/Catfight by the same person who brought this ANI). According to WP:DDE ANI is one of the last resorts, not the first.--Savonneux (talk) 11:03, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

childish personal attacks in edit summary - can some administrator remove it?

I have been subjected to a rather childish personal attack in an edit summary - see . Can some administrator strike out that offensive edit summary comment? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brad Dyer (talk • contribs) 17:54, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

@Malik Shabazz: ? General Ization 18:18, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying me, General Ization. I suppose it's okay in Brad's book to say that an editor's messages and edit summaries are false, they are a wikilawyer, and their editing is pointy and disruptive—but heaven forbid you say it in an edit summary. Talk about chutzpah! I'll strike the edit summary if it makes him happy, but it won't erase his WP:COPYVIO from the record. That's the real issue here. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 01:42, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, please strike out that edit summary. but not because it will make me happy , but because it is a violation of wikipedia policy, and all editors need to follow policy, including you. Brad Dyer (talk) 17:12, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Best to avoid calling editors sick in the head, if at all possible, when they misrepresent a source.

Malik, do you know if this editor makes a habit of misrepresenting sources? That is, is Brad Dyer an egregiously tendentious editor, or is this just a one-off error on his behalf? I see a fair bit of Jew/Muslim editing in his history. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 04:35, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I think you are bit confused here. Malik's complaint was that I followed the source too closely, to the point of copyright violation, not that I misrepresented a source. Something I have not done (ever, to the best of my knowledge).

You said something was current, based on a 7-year-old (?) source. I've been sampling your article edits and, although you have a clear personal bias, I haven't found any serious problems. You both need to work on your interaction style, though. Hard to do in such a hot-button arena I know, but in the long run it'll serve you well. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 07:27, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Malik has indicated he is willing to strike the edit summary, but has so far failed to do so. Is there any administrator who can step up and remove this childish personal attack? Brad Dyer (talk) 20:30, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Help with COI-SPA sock/meat farm (Spanish-speaking admin a plus)

I have been playing Whack-a-mole across enWP and esWP with a COI-SPA sock/meat farm for about 3 weeks now over articles and content related to Daniel Múgica. There was a round of blocks after an SPI in enWP, and similar blocks and protections in esWP based off of the same SPI, but they keep coming back for more. There is an ongoing conversation at Talk:Generation X with 81.39.202.52 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) who is the admitted owner of indef-blocked account (on both esWP and enWP) DMDHA1967 (talk · contribs). I could use some help from an admin, preferably one who speaks Spanish, and has cross-wiki powers if such a thing exists. If not I can coordinate again with esWP to take care of the newer accounts over there, but need some help here on enWP.

The whole story, with diffs and links to SPI, is documented here.

Thanks, Vrac (talk) 21:02, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Protection on Daniel Múgica expired last night, today a new ip 83.41.209.191 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) re-made here a bunch of edits previous made by blocked users DMDHA1967 (talk · contribs), Alejandriya (talk · contribs), etc.... Vrac (talk) 21:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Another new account: Mundoviejoycansado (talk · contribs) appeared today making the same edits as 83.41.209.191 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) that were reverted by another editor yesterday. Can someone please re-protect the Daniel Múgica article? Vrac (talk) 14:46, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Now there's another one: Mikel nieto (talk · contribs) and we're in a revert war, someone, anyone give a little help here? Vrac (talk) 19:42, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Legal Threat over at File talk:Ffmovie1994.jpg

An IP address has popped up over at File talk:Ffmovie1994.jpg claiming ownership of the image. Possibly in the heat of the moment, but it looks like a legal threat has been made to try and force a rapid resolution?

All informed. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:45, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Chaheel. I agree that the comment could be construed as a threat, but you'll see from my reply on the file talk page that I have preferred for now to treat it as a "polite complaint". I'm taking into account that it was written by a visitor who may not be expected to have prior knowledge of Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. – Wdchk (talk) 11:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree, which was why I included the caveat of "Possibly in the heat of the moment"... Chaheel Riens (talk) 13:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Repeated removal of properly sourced material by Giantsofnigeria on the Muhammadu Buhari page

• Giantsofnigeria (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) repeatedly suppresses encyclopedic information about the Nigerian government's policy in the early 1960s of sending NMTC cadets to non Nigerian (mostly Commonwealth ) military academies for officer training. When you examine the history of updates to Muhammadu Buhari 's page, you'll see an almost tone deaf and stubborn position that Giantsofnigeria assumes. Giantsofnigeria deleted references to NMTC's upgrade and the government policy of sending cadets abroad until Giantsofnigeria checked the Google books link for one of the references I provided. Unfortunately not all references are on Google Books like Dan Agbese's book (which is also cited and gives the example of Ibrahim Babangida who was sent by the Nigerian government to the Indian Military Academy for his officer training after completing his preliminary NMTC training. India is a Commonwealth country and obviously isn't England so Giantsofnigeria's categorical assertion that NMTC cadets were only sent to England is narrow minded and false. There's also the account from Paul Ogbebor that Giantsofnigeria repeatedly deletes and where Ogbebor clearly notes that NMTC cadets were sent to military academies abroad for officer training. I believe more than sufficient information exists (through the 3 reference notes) to put a stop to Giantsofnigeria's tone deaf position to the presentation of factual information and wrongful removal of relevant and encyclopedic information which is against the Misplaced Pages ethos.

Thank you, Kunkuru (talk) 10:16, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

You misquote footnote 1&2 p235 of the reference book cited (The Nigerian Military a Sociological Analysis of Authority & Revolt 1960-1967 By Robin Luckham), the footnotes on page 235properly states:

footnote 1: The preliminary selection and training courses for officers cadet had been at the African command training school at teshie in ghana. Cadets passing out from this school(and later from the NMTC) were sent to England for further training at sandhurst, Eaton Hall or Mons

footnote2 which I quoted states: The Defence Academy established in 1964 provided a full three years cadet training, unlike NMTC, which only provided preliminary training prior to the sending of cadets to England

Misplaced Pages can personally contact the Nigerian Army or Nigeria Defence Academy for clarification, who will tell them that prior to 1964 cadets where sent to England for training. Prior to 1964 graduate officers were sent for courses worldwide by NMTC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Giantsofnigeria (talk • contribs) 12:28, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

It's not Misplaced Pages's job to contact anyone. It is the job of the user seeking to add material that has been disputed to cite a reliable source to support that material.--ukexpat (talk) 13:07, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• It's not immediately clear why this needs to be in the article. The info is on p232 of the book mentioned above, where it states that in 1961 the first officer was sent to a staff training course outside the UK (at Pakistan Staff College, Quetta), and by 1963, training was carried out in Australia, Canada, Ethiopia, India, Pakistan and the USA, as well as Britain. The NDA, opened in 1964, was "staffed and organised by a military mission from India." West Germany provided training and planes for the newly established air force after 1964. I would oppose the vague wording "mostly Commonwealth", unless of course it is used by sources. Before adding this to the article, perhaps you should elaborate on the significance to Buhari. zzz (talk) 16:11, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Threats, aspersion-casting, etc. by Doc9871

I don't mind a spirited debate, but this is way across the WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA line, and has been for some time. I and others have tried to dissuade Doc9871 (talk · contribs) from making an action like this necessary, and my skin is very thick, but this behavior can't go on. I shudder to think if this is habitual across his other editing. Kind of a afraid to look.

• Threat/intimidation, followed by an explicit promise to engage in WP:WIKILAWYERing:

  "Ask around if I am one to quarrel with. I will "Wikilawyer" you, and really good. You don't have to like me: you have to reckon with me."

  (while obviously not a threat on my life or anything, it's clearly a threat to WP:HARASS.
• Followed immediately by a veiled threat to attempt to use my having a block log to pursue action against me: . He did this in response to my observation that he was making threats and promises to disrupt; this is strong evidence of self-righteous recalcitrance. He's also done it before to others; diffs below.
• This was all after third parties had asked him to stop, e.g.
• Previous vow to WP:BATTLEGROUND "until the bitter end" (a promise he is keeping, to date):
• Personal attacks (among many others going back through this entire debate, against multiple parties, both at the WP:MR discussion and at the WP:RM, and earlier at same essay talk page):
• Absurd accusation of abuse of my admin status (I'm not an admin):
• Assumption and accusation of bad faith:
• Assumption and accusation of bad faith and conspiracy:
• False accusation of "repeatedly" and "against consensus" engaging in "edit-warring" to restore the version of the essay that resulted from the decision of the closer of the move discussion ; in actual fact, I put it back one time, for procedural reasons: , as did someone else later , after multiple admins (and a non-admin) at the MR commented that such actions are counterproductive/disruptive, both before and after he started revertwarring:
• False accusations of personal attacks by others: ; another observes that this tactic is being used in an attempt to WP:WIN a content dispute, not just with regard to this RM/MR: .
• False accusation of WP:GAMING to get the page deleted: ; it's actually Doc971 who keeps agitating for deletion (see below).
• Proud, uncivil insistence that these tactics are justified because he got a convert in the MR discussion:
• The attack-and-threat pattern by Doc9871 pre-dates this debate, but seems to surround his involvement with this essay (no opinion about other editing areas; I'm not contribs-stalking him): , as does his repeatedly-expressed feeling that he's essentially immune from any repercussions as long as the other party has a block log: . The cure for this is pretty obvious, especially since he's keeping right at it despite requests to stop, while I was writing this: , and his responses to the requests to stop were a flippant "See WP:CON" and escalation of his intimidation tactics .

For my part:

In Doc's defense:

• His was not the only incivility in this discussion, as I pointed out and as Alakzi hatted later:
• I've also defended Doc's refusal to provide examples of editors he thinks "are divas", despite someone else's requests for "proof", since providing them would be uncivil at best.
• Update: He appears to have logged off by the time I posted this, so a block would just be punitive instead of preventative, unless similar behavior resumes when he returns. These actions should not go unaddressed, though. And if does resume, I'm asking for a one-way interaction ban, given the intimidation/harassment threats. 14:50, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I will notify the subject and the other editors whose diffs I've included, immediately after saving this post, but no other parties connected to the background dispute in question. This about behavior, not content, titles, or bureaucracy.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  12:06, 11 August 2015 (UTC) Updated: 14:50, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

An unbelievable waste of time. I've done SPI's that are more detailed, but that was for the actually "disruptive" types. RFC/U, perhaps? Drafted. Doc talk 08:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

WP:RFC/U doesn't exist any more except as {{Historical}}.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  09:43, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

• I saw a comment a while ago that any time you see the phrase "political correctness" you should replace it with "treating people with respect" and see what that does to the sense of the comment. Thus we see:

I will fight this PC nonsense until the bitter end. Doc talk 05:21, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Which, applying my rule, gives us:

I will fight this treating people with respect nonsense until the bitter end.

I think that tells us all we need to know. If someone wants to defend essays that don't treat people with respect, that's fine, just not on Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages essays are designed to help epople avoid problematic behaviour, not to attack people, still less attack them on the basis of any specific attribute.

That is why there was, to my reading, absolutely clear consensus that a title based on "diva" was inappropriate for the essay under debate. Other admins should certainly wander along and look at Misplaced Pages:Move review/Log/2015 August#WP:Don't feed the divas and look at the comments, many of whihc are less than stellar examples of Wikipedian behaviour. Guy (Help!) 12:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Addendum: I have no opinion at all on whether those who commented in the move debate were right or not - I didn't read the old version, I simply judged the discussion, and, as noted at the move review, once you discount the obvious WP:ILIKEIT and other such non-policy-based support, the consensus against the previous title is clear. Guy (Help!) 12:46, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• (Full disclosure: I was notified of this discussion by SMc, I participated in the RM in an administrative capacity, I voted at the MRV.) Having had the MRV on my watchlist since it began, I would agree with the assessment that Doc's comments there have gone beyond what could be considered spirited debate. That said, I think a block would probably be overkill for this. Doc has had more than his fair say at the MRV, so what probably needs to happen is for an uninvolved admin to tell him to lay off and let others have their say without being badgered. If he persists after that then either block or (better, probably) implement a very narrow topic ban from WP:DIVA-related pages. Jenks24 (talk) 12:25, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• I agree with Jenks24 and have implemented his suggestion. I also agree with JzG. --John (talk) 13:18, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Comment: Doc is definitely being his own worst enemy. He seems not to understand that civility, and letting the discussion proceed without his constant commentary and interference, would quickly gain his desired outcome, whereas his behaviors are rapidly decreasing the likelihood of that happening. That said, I very strongly do not think Doc's actions should impede the calculation of the consensus, either on the RM or the MVR. The consensus seems to be that the RM result was closed inaccurately. And I also see that, above, JzG is equating "PC nonsense" with "treating people with respect" (and put it in boldface), which is very worrisome (evidently this is his personal rule), and probably indicative of why he should not have closed the RM. If he is basing his decisions on his personal rules rather than WP:CONSENSUS, he should definitely not be closing RMs, in my opinion. Softlavender (talk) 13:33, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I agree this should not affect the MR. I did not post about this ANI filing at the MR, or the essay page. But we also needn't try to reargue why we think the MR should go this way or that, or what the ultimate consensus there might be. :-)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  15:03, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• I've also voted on both and was notified of this discussion because I was quoted in a diff. That said, I agree with Jenks24. I tried to intervene last night when I saw repeated changes on the DIVA page and some personal attacks in the edits summaries. It seemed to have worked a bit but the edit warring continued. Hopefully my RPP was fulfilled (have yet to check). That said, I'd also encourage SMcCandlish to step back from the rmv at this point. In my opinion, both Candlish and Doc were engaging in BLUDGEON. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 14:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough. I have no particular objection to a "reopen" result, anyway.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  15:03, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• One-way interaction ban? "Narrow" topic ban? You want to muzzle me because I am going against this politically correct bunch of utter nonsense? Predictable as heck. This has needlessly been turned into an issue that cannot be defended without being painted as a villain. It's ridiculous. I'm a big boy, and I can voluntarily stop "badgering" the endorsers (whose ranks are swelling with my haters thanks to this attempt at punishing me for standing up for the CON policy). My first ever AN/I thread. I guess I should feel honored. Doc talk 01:49, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
  • No, we want to you stop making harassment threats and personal attacks, obviously, but you just did it again. No one cares what your exact position is about some RM. If you feel that you have "haters", well, cf. previous sentence. Care was taken to insulate the MR from this ANI action. If it's going against your position, it's because the twice-found consensus to rename (even if not about what the final name should be) is being confirmed, and you've been your own cause's worst enemy by consistently attacking people for disagreeing with you about it. See also self-fulfilling prophecy.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  09:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support topic ban: Given that Doc9871 was just administratively warned on his talk page drop this stick or be subject to a topic ban and/or block, but instead came immediately back here to label and denigrate other editors with the same "politically correct bunch of utter nonsense" pointless insults, a topic ban at least is clearly in order. If he does it again, at least a short-term block is called for. There are no WP:VESTED editors who get a free pass for defiant, unrepentent incivility just because they've been around a while.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  09:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Tribscent08 and Universal Medicine

Universal Medicine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is an Australian cult. Tribscent08 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been credibly identified as associated with that cult, but does not acknowledge the COI. 100% of Tribscent08's edits are related to that article, and many of them are endless repetitions of rejected querulous demands. Neutrality requires the involvement of multiple points of view, but it's my view that Tribscent08, one of a series of WP:SPAs involved wiht that article, is not helping. I suggest that a topic ban would be in order. Guy (Help!) 12:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Support topic ban for reasons stated above. 79616gr (talk) 14:36, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
• I would in general prefer to see Pseudoscience and other topics covered by ArbCom discretionary sanctions dealt with at Arbitration Enforcement, a more efficient and less contentious process than here, but since we are here, Support topic ban. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:53, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
• Neutral (procedurally) for now see later post below: oppose action beyond admonition at this time: What's the evidence?  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  19:10, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

  To clarify, I'm not contradicting or supporting the original poster's position on what's happening. I just can't fathom why there's an ANI open making specific allegations without even any diffs to back them up, and yet people are "voting" to take punitive actions based on nothing but an unsupported allegation. Notwithstanding the subject editor's quasi-confessional below, that is not the proper way to do an ANI filing, much less respond to one.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  09:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

  • Seconded; SPA is evident, but not on first inspection the COI. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support DS (preferably) or topic ban. Miniapolis 23:31, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support topic ban. User doggedly refuses to acknowledge the cult's unethical behaviours, and appears determined to manipulate the article to further obscure the organization's convoluted financial structure. Disputed issues are consistent with the cult's public protestations of "media bias" and "trolling" by official complainants and government bodies, so COI/meat puppetry is impossible to rule out. Persistently recycles resolved & archived issues. Disruption appears deliberate. XRii (talk) 23:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
• Support Reviewing Special:Contributions/Tribscent08 shows that the OP is correct. It's one thing for a person to be an SPA on, say, birds because that is their interest, but being an SPA on an alternative medicine and religious organisation providing "esoteric healing" products, music, publications, workshops and courses is not desirable for the encyclopedia. The long posts at Talk:Universal Medicine suck up time and energy from non-SPA editors. Johnuniq (talk) 00:19, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose, as both SMcCandlish and Georgewilliamherbert noted, there is no evidence other than being a SPA is shown. Are there any diffs to support the call for a topic ban? GregJackP Boomer! 08:19, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Evidence is a pattern of Talk page edits pestering with the same grievances as a declared COI editor Choose12. These include repeated requests to remove reference to the cult leader's bankruptcy, and repeating Choose12's claims there's no evidence of unethical behaviour - when the article itself, and the numerous referenced articles from a dozen independent media organizations, plus material on the cult's own websites, indicates a plethora of unethical activity. The editor's inability to distinguish unethical behaviour and repeat attempts to whitewash financial information directly echoes the cult's online propaganda. Tribescent08 refuses to address whether he or she has contributed to the propaganda sites. Those of us who have researched this group have found the cult has at least 30 websites (dozens more Facebook pages etc.), and it relies on a "Facts Team" of propagandists, as well as "investors" to provide the material for a dozen or more blogs. All investors are religious devotees to the leader and most blog contributors have financial or business ties to the organization. Questions or corrections from non followers is prohibited These are examples of edits where Tribescent repeated the insistence there's "no evidence" of unethical behaviour having waited for discussions to be archived. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Universal_Medicine&diff=670252225&oldid=670008491 https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Universal_Medicine&diff=next&oldid=647134493 I could pull out more instances. The following link is an example of one of the propaganda pages attacking an official complainant and a News Ltd journalist http://universalmedicinefacts.com/somewhere-in-a-galaxy-far-far-away-jane-hansen-might-find-her-integrity/ Frankly, anyone who can't see problems with this business is certainly a religious follower/investor. XRii (talk) 09:07, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
    • Thanks. That's helpful.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  09:47, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
    • Reviewing. His main point at is actually valid; dwelling on some WP:BLP subject's bankruptcy 20-ish years ago in the lead of another article raises WP:UNDUE / WP:POV issues. The "no official findings have found Serge Benhayon guilty of any one crime or in breach of any serious misdoings" also has merit, if it's true. His second post at makes the same point more clearly: We're repeating allegations made in the media, but there are no actual convictions or other real-world evidence. These seems to be valid concerns, even if there could be some ulterior motive for raising them. I agree that this is a WP:FRINGE group, but that doesn't magically suspend WP:V and WP:BLP policies with regard to the topic and people associated with it. If there are legal/regulatory findings of fact behind the media allegations, then citing them directly along with the media stuff would appear to be the resolution.

      I agree that this is clearly a single-purpose account, and that it is probably but not demonstrably one with an undeclared connection to the organisation (and perhaps we can assume one at this point per WP:DUCK). Some of the sourcing attempts by this party have been quite poor (local articles about swimming awards?). That said, not every edit to the article or its talk page have been non-constructive. E.g., XRii agreed that one of the funding-related sources that Tribscent08 flagged as unreliable was in fact unreliable. Some of his copyediting suggestions, e.g. to more closely follow the source and say "The cost of Universal Medicine’s treatments, courses and retreats, for some individuals over a period of years, are reported to be in the tens of thousands of Australian dollars", don't appear to be out of line, either. On the other hand, I also saw deletion of sourced material, and am not sure there's a consensus for that.. As much I'm generally in favor of restraining FRINGE COIs, there's insufficient evidence of disruption, and the article is actually being improved in response to the editor's concerns, even if he's being a bit of a pain in the butt to get them, and may have non-neutral motives (several other editors clearly do as well, in the other direction, even beyond WP:FRINGE skepticism and due-weight balancing). The denialism with regard to facts source to the organisation's own materials has to stop.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  10:17, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

      • But this is the problem of Tribescent's disrupts. For the third time I have to point out to Wiki eds News Ltd reported that a patient had spent $35K on treatment from a doctor working at the UM clinic in Goonellabah, who also referred the patient to esoteric "healers". It was confirmed in a second article referenced that News Ltd had viewed the receipts. So the tens of thousands is correct. The bankruptcy is not given undue weight because the cult's current publicity states that the leader was financially successful at the time he started Universal Medicine. News Ltd found he had just come out of bankruptcy. So Tribescent and colleagues are attempting to make Misplaced Pages perpetuate the cult mythology. Benhayon may not have convictions - possibly due to the group's extraordinary bullying of complainants - but there is no dispute that the group's behaviour is unethical. All covered on the Talk page. In terms of real world evidence, they do a good job of incriminating themselves. It can be found with minimal research. For instance their defence of photographs of inappropriate touching they call healing on this page - which another site reveals to be inflicted on sexual abuse victims: http://universalmedicinefacts.com/esther-rockett-byron-bay-acupuncturist-engineering-fear-from-brainwashing-to-false-child-abuse-claims-part-2-lies-about-sexual-abuse-and-incest/ I agree not all of Tribesent's edits have been hostile, but the overall agenda is to disrupt and exasperate. Personally I will be keeping this as a SPA because in the course of my research I've concluded they are highly dangerous. XRii (talk) 12:07, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose strong action at this time (per my above comments). It should be sufficient to issue an administrative admonition to follow the WP:CORE content policies, and to refrain from disruptive editing, including WP:EDITWARring, WP:ICANTHEARYOU, and WP:FILIBUSTERing. Consider it WP:ROPE, and remember that COI editing is not totally forbidden in every way, just "very strongly discouraged". If would probably be more productive for this editor to raise concerns on the talk page and back them up with sources than to directly edit the page; and to use the WP:NOTICEBOARDS for PoV, NOR, etc., if he feels that a bias concern is not being addressed.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ≼  10:17, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm very sorry I thought that as this WP article had 2 sock puppets identified who had contributed greatly to earlier consensus about edits on its page, I could revisit some of those topics. I see I was wrong and I will try to do better. Very happy to continue as a WP editor, to contribute to other articles, and to pull my socks up.Tribscent08 (talk) 08:52, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• This remark is disingenuous as the sock accounts were not the ones who corrected your misconceptions, at times with evidence from UM's own materials. XRii (talk) 09:07, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Sundar Pichai

Going a bit crazy here as Sundar Pichai is apparently going to be the next CEO of Google, but being promoted prematurely and lots of un-sourced edits including BLP vios and vandalism. RFPP already done, but can an Admin please protect the page? 220 of 12:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 DoneProtected by RegentsPark Many thanks! 220 of 12:55, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

User:Philm540

This user User:Philm540 has used multiple 2600:1002 IPs and was blocked for disruption and legal threats, as they continued to use different IPs sometimes more than one a day (refer Misplaced Pages:Long-term abuse/Philm540) a range block 2600:1002:B000::/39 was put in place for a month by User:KrakatoaKatie. A discussion was started on a proposed site ban Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive891#Proposed site ban of Philm540, although supported it was archived before being formally closed. The range block has expired and the user has returned editing the same subjects as User:2600:1002:B02C:A89C:CBEA:4CB:FD93:286C.

Just a few questions and requests:

• The main account User:Philm540 was never blocked altough the IPs being used where, perhaps it is time to block now they have returned.
• Can somebody please set the range block again as the user is clearly intends to continue to edit despite what measures are taken.
• Do we need to start a proposed site ban discussion again?

Thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 17:42, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I concur that we need to set the rangeblock again, this time for a longer period. The Philm540 account is not being used, which is likely why it was not blocked. If there's a vote, count me as supporting a site ban. Binksternet (talk) 18:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Just for information the user has used four different IPs already today and despite the blocks for legal threats and disruption the user continues to claim he cant be blocked or reverted as per https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Nick_Thorne&oldid=675600944 your dangeriously close to violating my rights as a citizen of nation that signature to international aggreements. MilborneOne (talk) 18:10, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I hardblocked the /39 range for six months. I'm about to leave town for a few days and likely won't be able to check in until I reach our destination, so if someone needs to modify the block, go ahead, but we may need to manage this range with IP block exemption. I'm unwilling to tolerate the legal threats and disruption this user causes, so I also support a site ban. KrakatoaKatie 19:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Requesting creation of talk page

I'm not able to create a talk page for Denise Milani since it is creation protected. The article itself was able to be created with the help of a sysop (read this). But she forgot to also create the talk page or didn't know that she had to separately. So I'm requesting that one of you do it. Thanks. Rainbow unicorn (talk) 20:36, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

I believe the correct place to make this request would be at WP:Requests for Page Protection#Current requests for reduction in protection level. However, according to that page your first step should be to attempt to contact the admin who protected the page. General Ization 20:43, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

But since the protection probably occurred 7 years ago, non-admins can't see who protected the page, and of the admins who deleted it I don't personally recognize any who are very active, you could probably put in your request at WP:RFPP. General Ization 20:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Actually, this is the protection:.It can only be found when searching in the logs. The admin is still active.--Müdigkeit (talk) 20:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. Sysop Od Mishehu is indeed active. General Ization 21:04, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Despite all that, it is still OK to take the request for 'unsalting' to WP:RfPP (I've done the same there, twice, recently), as General Ization explained above. It's just that, in doing that, be sure to 'ping' the 'create protecting' Admin (in this case, Od Mishehu) when submitting the request to RfPP. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:06, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

This page should not have been unsalted

@KrakatoaKatie:, were you aware of the 2010 AFD, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Denise Milani (model)? That includes, or at least alludes to, some material that's quite important in determining whether this article should have been recreated.

• Most important, "Denise Milani" isn't a real person. It's a fictitious identity contrived by an agent/producer, who hired a model to play the role. The name and parts of the biography were tweaked to line up in part with the model's real-world life, but nothing that's based on her "official" information qualifies as a reliable source. A few years ago, the model and her agent had a falling out, sued each other, and put court filings online which pretty much put the lie to much that's in the current article. They've apparently resolved their lawsuits, the court docs have apparently been removed from public view, and the model is now holding herself out as a personal trainer under the "Milani" name. But while the model and the agent were wasting their money suing each other, "Denise Milani" was appropriated as a fake identity exploited by scammers in at least one high-profile case. And, to thicken the plot a little more, restoring the Milani article became a cause celebre at Wikipediocracy. Scroll down that page a little to see yours truly, The Big Bad (Hullaballoo) Wolfowitz excoriated for his arguments in the AFD!
• And the sourcing is ghastly, especially for a BLP. It's cerainly unlikely that "Face to Tits with Denise Milani", from the venerable "Boobs News Center", meets RS requirements. I believe the unsalting was at best premature, and that the article should be removed to draftspace and not restored without consensus at DRV. Thed article was deleted twice, after all, by community consensus. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 02:26, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Yes, I am aware of the AFD. I compared the draft version to the version deleted in 2007, and it is substantially different and contains references. On my talk page, I said as much to Rainbow Unicorn, and I also said that I have no opinion on the notability of the subject. I acted entirely in an administrative capacity because I was the one who salted the article in May. If you have an issue with the new version (and it is new and completely different from the 2007 deleted article), take it to AFD again, because CSD#G4 does not apply here. As for Wikipediocracy, I neither care nor can control what is said there. KrakatoaKatie 02:53, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
    • @KrakatoaKatie: I was asking about the 2010 AFD, under a slightly different article title, not the 2007 version. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo) (talk) 03:46, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Please explain

Are the facts presented in the current Denise Milani article about the real person (i.e. the model who had previously been hired to play "Denise Milani"), or are they the fictional backstory created for "Denise Milani", or some combination of the two? If the former, why is there not mention of her real name, no mention of her being hired to play a part, no mention of the person who hired her, no mention of the court cases referenced above? If the latter, why are we presenting a fictional person as a real life person without indicating that it's a character? BMK (talk) 17:14, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Disruptive editing

Hi I'm a physician with experience in biomedical ethics. I have added a part of a scientific paper of one of my colleagues which focused on the importance of including medical ethics in training programs to "Ethics" but Jytdog deleted that post without any explanation and finally mentioned conflicts of interest as the reason even when I suggested adding that part without any citation. I believe that it's really inappropriate that a non-expert user abuse his/her administrative ability to just based on a biased judgement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohammad1985k (talk • contribs) 20:53, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) Note: When creating a thread about a user on ANI, you are supposed to leave a notice on their talk page, as it says at the top of the page. In this case, I have done so for you. However, please keep this in mind. Thank you. -- Orduin 21:02, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Please see No original research and Citing sources, along with Conflict of interest. While I'm sure you are expert in biomedical ethics, you seem to have missed the fact that Misplaced Pages relies on cited, reliable, published sources to ensure that we don't offer an encyclopedia full of misinformation, conjecture and non-expert personal opinion. Your suggestion that the content be posted without any citation was correctly rejected as it does not solve the problem. General Ization 20:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, did you notify Jytdog that you were bringing your objection to his action here, as is required so he can present his side of the dispute? General Ization 21:01, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Attention is brought to this note to jytdog and this note on my talkpage left by M1985k. I think he needs to be brought up to speed on how we do things here. "Take a part in a scientific entry if only and only you know enough to talk about" ain't it. — Brianhe (talk) 21:09, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Multiple accounts

Why is User:83.100.174.82 allowed multiple accounts? I thought that there was 1 account per user - User:Xiiophen, User:Jonathancarroll.hull, User:Prof.Haddock, User:Imgaril, User:Oranjblud etc. Appears to be both here and on commons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.38.139.9 (talk) 21:15, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Please explain why you believe that all of those registered accounts are related to that IP. Sockpuppetry is prohibited, though there are a few permissible reasons to have and use multiple accounts (for constructive purposes). The place to file reports of suspected sockpuppetry is WP:Sockpuppet investigations. General Ization 21:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Block review

I just blocked WP:SPA EDtoHW (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) partly because it seems to be a drama-only account devoted to proselytising homeopathy but also because of a distinct smell of duck, I found the styl reminiscent of a few other banned homeopathy trolls including Khabboos (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and his sock drawer. Guy (Help!) 22:38, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

• Had he edited any real article space at all I would have a problem, but JzG is correct. He's NOTHERE. Good block. GregJackP Boomer! 00:17, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Endorse The WP:NOTHERE assessment is correct. Johnuniq (talk) 00:21, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Endorse, clear SPA with no contributions outside of the subject. Nakon 01:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Endorse, good call. Dbrodbeck (talk) 01:45, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Endorse Nothing else to do with this one. §FreeRangeFrog 03:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Endorse. Quack quack. Good block, this sort of nonsense needs to be diluted off that talk page to the point it's as effective as a homoeopathic remedy. Lankiveil 09:36, 12 August 2015 (UTC).
• Question Is there a way by which a person may be blocked from general editing and still be able to reply to comments made on boards such as AN/I? GregKaye 11:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Convention is that the blocked individual posts to their user talk requesting that it be transcribed to AN/I. Tiderolls 12:25, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Occasionally a blocking admin will unblock for the purpose of responding on ANI, usually with an agreement from the party that is being unblocked that they will only comment at ANI, or they will stay away from an area/topic until the ANI is resolved, etc. It is more normal that it is handled like Tide rolls stated. GregJackP Boomer! 19:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Help needed at CSI Talk page (edit warring over personal attack redaction)

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Talk:CSI: Crime Scene Investigation. Unframboise (talk · contribs) has included language in a discussion that Drmargi (talk · contribs) has taken offense to (which I believe Drmargi's offense is justified), Drmargi has redacted some of the language several times but it has been restored by Unframboise. Drmargi did ask Unframboise to stop, but this user doesn't think the language used is a personal attack. I'd tend to agree with Drmargi here and the fact that Unframboise is edit warring to remove the redactions is a problem, but I would like a second opinion here. --MASEM (t) 00:55, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I would support a block for Unframboise (talk · contribs). This disruptive activity needs to stop. Nakon 01:00, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• Blocked for 31 hours. This particular brand of smug needling sticks in my craw about an order of magnitude more than when people get pissed off and use bad words. Next time he demeans someone like this, let me know and I'll block for a month. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

(EC) While it's true the term "honey" may sometimes be used for either gender and without intending offense when addressing someone you don't know (like at a diner in certain parts of the US), it should be used with care. More importantly, even if it's true the term "honey" would have been used by Unframboise when talking to a male that they were getting along with, once Drmargi had taken offense, there is zero reason to go around calling them "chick". AFAIK, unlike with "honey" using chick as a form of direct address (rather than referring to someone as a "chick") of random people in a completely innocous fashion is rare. In the context of the discussion it seems hard to imagine the editor wasn't being obnoxious by using it. To then follow it up with the third comment which in the context of discussion is even more difficult to imagine was anything but negative sentiment of the editor, and to revert war to keep it, well IMO a block is completely fair. (The third comment is the sort of thing I'd normally be more inclined to let slide, were it not for the earlier comments and appearent need to keep them there.)

Ultimately if you're talking to one person on wikipedia, the best bet is to refer to someone by their public identifier (i.e. wikipedia name or their IP) or a clearly neutral term (like OP, IP). Terms which could be taken as demeaning, derogratory or offensive should be used with care particularly when used with someone you're not getting along with. And even if no offense was meant, once it's clear someone doesn't like being referring to that way your best solution is to at least stop, if not apologise.

Nil Einne (talk) 01:38, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you all. It's been a trying afternoon. --Drmargi (talk) 05:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Page fork issues...

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One of the editors at the Freemasonry Wikiproject pointed out that National Grand Lodge and Prince Hall National Grand Lodge are two different articles about the same subject. We therefore have a content fork. The content fork policy says the older article takes precedence, but "National Grand Lodge" is too vague a title (it could refer to a number of things). The title of the newer article is more correct in usage, but the edit history of the newer article shows editwarring already (as well as a redlink redirect; I'm not sure what happened there, and I don't know how to track it back). Ideally, we need to merge the older article to the newer title (which process needs an admin anyway), but I'm concerned that a merge discussion is going to turn into another mess. I think we also need to salt the old title to prevent a future refork. Does the content fork policy allow an admin merge without discussion? MSJapan (talk) 03:42, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

The better solution would be for protection of the redirect, wouldn't it? But there's a difference between needing to merge the articles and needing to merge the histories. Prince Hall National Grand Lodge looks like it was created/redirected or something and I can't figure out what's going on here but it was moved to National Grand Lodge of 1847 which was soon deleted. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Any suggestions on this sort of edit

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I have not seen

Question: abuse of twinkle

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Does this edit by Human3015 constitute an abuse of Twinkle, the user having knowledge of escalating an edit war? The user claims there is a dead link in the edit, although the source cited evidently isn't a dead link. The user also removed a reference, quote, and sourced text to revert to an earlier version which matches their WP:POV, despite a source cited for the contested content. This article was previously locked due to the user's edit warring, and I can't see any good faith in this edit which removed sources and text, and escalated an edit war. Mar4d (talk) 07:33, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

AfD disruption

• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs

The author of the article, Mr Bill Truth (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is a bringer of The Truth (in the sense of 9/11 Truth) and has created numerous articles on the work of anti-medicine crank Gary Null. We can't work out if this is COI or just a True Believer but either way his behaviuour is disruptive and I'd appreciate some help form an uninvolved admin.

His Talk page contains this gem:

You're either a total idiot Jytdog or you take to the given tasks very seriously. I may find time to reply to this piece of gross stupidity that you have put down here. Whilst considering a possibly .... if it's what I suspect and you're just obeying your masters, I feel the greatest pity for you. I really do. You have no idea of the pity I feel for you. Oh I will say one thing. I work for nobody and I bend over for no body! Oh and one more thing again. Either way, I truly pity you

( diff ) Nice. Guy (Help!) 07:47, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• Reply to JzG/Guy's accusation. Totally false. Personally I believe that JzG/Guy seriously does not even believe the accusations he has thrown at me. I know they're not true! And I think he does too. Yes I have created about 5 articles on Gary Null, all to do with his films which number about 50. Prior to my creating Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs, there were none. I found that highly unusual considering Null has made many more films than Michael Moore and some, at least some would have to be notable. I have created other articles. I would suspect there are other motivations here. Please keep an open mind here. If editors are using a Misplaced Pages process to block, ban another editor because they don't agree with their creations then that is not only immoral and dishonest. That is misconduct. I'm amazed and equally amused that (in the sense of 9/11 Truth) has been thrown in here. And again, for a Misplaced Pages process to be misused is misconduct. ThanksMr Bill Truth (talk) 07:59, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• You have provided exactly one diff. I don't see any problems worthy of ANI. Why is this being brought here? The guy is defending his article at AfD, the same way most article creators do. There's nothing disruptive about it, nothing out of the ordinary, and no one seems to be swayed by his arguments. Softlavender (talk) 08:00, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• • Defending an article at AFD is one thing, describing an editor as a "total idiot", describing contributions that are not unreasonable as "gross stupidity" and what appears to be a serious suggestion that an editor is "obeying" the dictates of some shadowy "masters", is quite another. WP:CIVIL did not have an exemption for AFD or controversial topics last time I checked. I trust that User:Mr Bill Truth will have a read of the policy and choose some less confrontational language next time. Lankiveil 09:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC).

  Well Lankiveil, being harrassed and possibly baited, I may have appeared confrontational. I guess I have to learn to just ignore certain things. I will try hard to just ignore certain things. Thanks for your comment too. Mr Bill Truth (talk) 09:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• @Softlavender: Check Mr Bill Truth's contributions. He is hectoring people at AfD, and he is promoting WP:FRINGE topics with a quite remarkable persistence. And coming to ANI saying that an admin doesn't actually believe the statements they are making? That is a perfect example. Guy (Help!) 09:50, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't see anything disruptive at the AfD, which is what this thread accused him of, without providing a single diff. I have no idea why this is at ANI. It's just normal AfD back and forth, with the article creator being understandably passionate about the merits of the article they spent a lot of time creating. There is no policy against editing in topics one is interested in. Can this thread be closed before we waste any more of everyone's time? Softlavender (talk) 09:59, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• I don't approve of editors promoting fringe crackpot nonsense or writing a lot of smug jerkassery on their own talk page. But what exactly do you want an administrator to do here? Reyk _YO! 10:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Assuming that Mr. Bill Truth has stopped with the personal attacks, we can close this out as is. However, if not, then I'd collapse the attacking sections (the one arguing about consensus isn't attacks and is probably counter-productive but I'd see if the editor has the sense to strike it out himself). The COIN discussion at Misplaced Pages:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#Gary_Null requires more eyes though. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 11:02, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Comment the full thread from which the diff is taken is all on Mr_Bill_Truth's personal tp but display unacceptable incivility on (presumably) his part. I have known Jytdog to have behaviours that I have interpreted to be manipulative and tendentious but this is within an area of editing where others may have similar approaches.

sorry where not relevant but pinging @DASonnenfeld, Jytdog, Wavelength, Shawn in Montreal, DMacks, AndyTheGrump, and Northamerica1000:and @Sjakkalle, Spartaz, BullRangifer, and Winner 42: as editors of the Seeds of Death: Unveiling the Lies of GMOs article.

Not withstanding other potential issues that may be raised I propose at minimum a 48 hour ban on Mr Bill Truth for incivility.

As far as "quack" is concerned, his article presents that Gary Null's "... views on health and nutrition are at odds with scientific consensus; psychiatrist Stephen Barrett, co-founder of the National Council Against Health Fraud and webmaster of Quackwatch, described Null as "one of the nation's leading promoters of dubious treatment for serious disease". This in itself is not meant as a criticism but to both bring JzG's comment back from WP:ASSERT and to set context for discussion.

GregKaye 11:12, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• My proposal for a ban may need to be considered in the context of edits of the appallingly uncivil and bitey example of Andy the Grump earlier on the same talk page. Again this only gives context. GregKaye 11:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

The 'context' begins with Mr Bill Truth repeatedly using the Essiac article and talk page as a platform for the promotion of a herbal tea as a supposed cure for cancer, (e.g. ) despite there being no scientific evidence whatsoever that it cures anything. And dismissing the American Cancer Society as a valid source in doing so, while citing meaningless anecdotal 'evidence' even after repeatedly being told that WP:MEDRS was the relevant criteria for sources. His sole purpose on Misplaced Pages is the promotion of quackery and similar fringe topics, and he has never shown the slightest evidence of being willing to comply with Misplaced Pages policy. He has wasted a great deal of many contributors time with his badly-sourced, weasel-worded, semi-literate 'articles' promoting Null and his films, and it seems self-evident that he will continue as long as he is permitted to do so. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:10, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

That is edging towards a WP:FRINGE ban, when added to his advocacy of Null's claptrap. Guy (Help!) 20:44, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

See also the ANI thread from November last year: . AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:14, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

IP sock evading block

Following on from this SPI, the IP editor was blocked for a week and the "proper" account blocked for two. The IP sock is now back, restoring images that are tagged for deletion on the sockmaster's talkpage. I would follow this up with Bbb23, but his talkpage states he's not around for another day or two, hence why I'm posting it here. Please could the IP address be re-blocked for at least as long as the user's account? There is the other issue of this user uploading lots and lots of non-free images (talkpage has a long history of this too). Thanks. Lugnuts 12:29, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Also IP address 68.5.180.139 is the same user re-adding non-free images. Thanks. Lugnuts 12:47, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I have blocked both IPs for two weeks. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:56, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Lugnuts 13:57, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Largely bogus content

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• King Tiger (Recording Artist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Drastic Universal Records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Bermúdez (rum) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Bookingforkingtiger (talk · contribs)
• Whiskyrum1852 (talk · contribs)

Calling these promotional articles and promotional accounts doesn't do justice. Both the music-related articles, while apparently referring to a real musician and a real record company, are laden with made-up content--the claims on behalf of King Tiger appear to be whole-cloth fiction. Upon researching the songs and the 'sources' provided in the articles, one finds that none of them have actually charted, and claims like 'number one hit single in the world' are painfully false. I'm suggesting deletion and salting of those two articles, with final warnings for the accounts. 2601:188:0:ABE6:F51F:3422:6AAA:30D0 (talk) 13:20, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Please either tag the articles with an appropriate WP:CSD, or send them to WP:AfD with a well formed deletion rationale.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:46, 12 August 2015 (UTC).

Mass creation of blank pages

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User:Michaelbenis (contribs) has created numerous blank articles in the last hour or two. Would be great if someone could delete them all (I've only tagged 2 for speedy deletion) and then try to communicate with the user. Everymorning (talk) 13:27, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I deleted the all the blank pages and User:Kudpung blocked the editor for 12 hours to stop the disruption. -- Ed (Edgar181) 13:36, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Based on his previous history of contribution, I suspect he was creating the titles with the anticipation of filling them in later. bd2412 T 13:37, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

It had crossed my mind, but the spree had to be stopped in case it were vandalism. And if it wasn't it's still disrutive. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• What a poor block. I've unblocked this good faith editor, and left a hand-written message asking for an explanation. Please note that he stopped creating blank pages (there weren't actually that many, "spree" is silly) as soon as he got the first communication about it on his talk page. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Many apologies from me - Michael Benis - I was unaware I could create Draft Blank Pages to complete later. I will anyway delete all those remaining for the time being. Sorry for taking everyone's time up with this. Michaelbenis (talk) 14:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Why create either articlespace or draft space blank pages to fill in later? Why not just make the page at the point where you start to "fill in"? Blanks pages, wherever they are, aren't really helpful to anyone. BMK (talk) 17:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

ROPE renamed without discussion

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A SNOW failure at MFD Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Give 'em enough rope was followed by the nominator Alakzi (talk · contribs) renaming Misplaced Pages:Give 'em enough rope and Misplaced Pages:ROPE. There was no discussion. Choor monster (talk) 15:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• Fixed, I think. Guy (Help!) 15:56, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Revert and WP:TROUT - the moves are pretty clearly against consensus. Alakzi is now reverting some of Guy's reverts. (Non-administrator comment) Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 15:58, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
  • A consensus among spineless, insensitive and domineering admin wanna-bes is no consensus I care about. Alakzi (talk) 16:02, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I hope that vicious personal attack wasn't directed at me, I didn't participate in that discussion at all. Consensus is policy; if you can't follow it, kindly get the fuck out. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 16:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• • • Alakzi is now also changing redirects to include a message from them... Sam Walton (talk) 16:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
    • You don't have to care about it, but you need to follow it, or you'll be blocked. Sergecross73 msg me 16:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• I have no interest in being an admin but I do think we have an editor that should be blocked at this point for disruptive editing. At their request no WP:ROPE should be extended to them Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:12, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• WP:GEER hasn't been fixed yet. Choor monster (talk) 16:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
• Just in case anyone thinks it matters, the essay was originally at Misplaced Pages:Give 'em enough rope, but is now at Misplaced Pages:Give them enough rope. All of the shortcuts seem to point to the right place now though. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 16:20, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) I went through and fixed most of the double redirects. -- Orduin 16:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

  • I rolledback, I am concerned though that this is a possible case of sockpuppetry. The vendetta against this essay seems odd that ] this seemingly random edit was done. It reminds me of the actions of a person smarting over having the essay used on them. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:21, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• (edit conflict) They made that edit because WP:SECONDCHANCE redirects to Template:2nd chance, and they had changed WP:SECONDCHANCE to point to the new ROPE location. Sam Walton (talk) 16:25, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

User:Kitsunelaine and 2601:140:8200:23E5:6074:1FCA:AB9A:3119

These two users, Kitsunelaine (talk · contribs) and 2601:140:8200:23E5:6074:1FCA:AB9A:3119 (talk · contribs · WHOIS); removed Category:Ghosts in television and "Supernatural" in the Kamen Rider Ghost article and Category:Fictional ninja and Category:Martial arts television series in the Shuriken Sentai Ninninger article. These categories and the word is what describes these shows. For the Supernatural genre, take Kamen Rider Kiva for example. The word was included in the article. For the Category:Fictional ninja and Category:Martial arts television series, take Kakuranger and Hurricaneger for example. They included these categories. I edit these articles because I want to describe the shows. These categories helped people on knowing what kind of show it is. That's why I make two reasons for my edits: "Since the show has a ninjutsu motif, it is a martial arts television series" and "Since the show has a ghost motif, it's genre will also be supernatural". She reverted my edits a couple of hours ago. I revert her edits that they are actually helpful. 10 minutes later, Kitsunelaine revert my edits without giving her own reason. These edits I made have a good explanation on why these categories described the shows. Please do something as soon as possible. FrankieL1985 (talk) 16:30, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• UPDATE: I was not vandalizing anything at all, I edit articles in a good fashion. But she thinks I'm vandalizing these two articles when I'm actually making good-faith edits. FrankieL1985 (talk) 17:10, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

User:WilyD and RfD

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I am currently unable to edit WilyD's user talk to inform him of this. WilyD is an administrator. At WP:Redirects for discussion, WilyD states that no rationale has been presented for deleting redirects when a rationale had been presented. He mocked me when I attempted to discuss this with him. WilyD has also bludgeoned the discussion at times, and applies his own take on WP:NOTFAQ as if it is policy. --Rubbish computer 16:32, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

First, WilyD's talk page is not protected. Second, RFD is a big page; can you link to the mocking? The one interaction I saw didn't have any. Third, no one is forcing you to continue discussing this there; if you've said all you have to say, then stop. This is not ANI material. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:43, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

If you're talking about WP:RFD#Vereinigtes Königreich, then it seems to me this complaint is pretty much without merit; I can't see any mocking at all. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:50, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

It's not that his/her talk page is protected, I think my phone is playing up. The mocking is on my user talk page at the section entitled RfD. --Rubbish computer 17:12, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

There have been a few users, myself included, who have taken issue with WilyD's comments at RfD, but I agree that this is probably not ANI material. The admin has taken to dismissing arguments which would be nuanced except for links to shortcuts (which is common practice pretty much everywhere in Misplaced Pages) with their seemingly boilerplate "no rationale has been presented for deletion" (currently 35 instances at WP:RFD), which is particularly aggravating when they are the only keep !vote in an otherwise clear-cut discussion. My take has been to ignore it, because "no rationale has been presented" is itself no rationale, but with other users becoming frustrated with this, it's beginning to attract drama. For example: , , , the lengthy exchange here, plus this here thread. I didn't know that WilyD is an administrator, I would expect an admin to be better able to respond and adjust when the community makes specific complaints about their conduct, rather than just continue on doing the same thing. I also made a comment about this in one of the more recent Rfd threads but it seems to have disappeared. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 17:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC) This is my comment that I was looking for. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 17:43, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Did someone just outright delete this thread while I was typing? that's not very nice. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 17:40, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Cyberbullying from G1234~eswiki sockpuppets

The user G1234~eswiki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was blocked from Spanish Misplaced Pages few months ago but he created a sort of sockpuppets and he persist the harrasment in Spanish Misplaced Pages and here:

List of sockpuppets

• Creador del cielo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Por la justicia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Todos me aman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• I am god and you know (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Also the IP 181.233.197.29 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Here, Por la justicia sended to me, and two other users (Fixertool and Antur) a sort of harrasments in Spanish (, , ) protesting over and over his unblock and the unprotect of a erased article in Spanish Misplaced Pages. Usually I don't enter here but its very disgusting see this harrasment. --Taichi (talk) 17:01, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

@Taichi:, our sockpuppet investigations page is here. I added links to the usernames above; I see that "Creador del cielo" and "I am god and you know" have no edits here, and "Todos me aman" has only edited "I am god"'s talk page. Are you saying that they are confirmed sockpuppets at Spanish Misplaced Pages? If they are harassing users here in Spanish, then I think we should consider their edits here editing around a block, and should block them here too. I don't see strong evidence of sockpuppetry on this wiki, however. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 18:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

@Ivanvector: These users are confirmed sockpuppets from Spanish Misplaced Pages, it's totally inneccesary reconfirming here. --Taichi (talk) 21:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Now, he harrases another Spanish Misplaced Pages sysop here: . --Taichi (talk) 21:07, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• Note: The account I am god and you know is not attached to any other wiki , and does not exist on the spanish wiki . I am not sure about the IP however. The rest should be blocked for cross wiki abuse and sockpuppetry. -- Orduin 21:19, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

User issue....

User:Morrissey1976 is an SPA (also related to User:Morrissey19766) who has only edited on Cornerstone (Austrian band) and their related album articles. I came across the user because he attempted to have Cornerstone (disambiguation) redirected and Cornerstone redirected, in violation of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Upon researching the band and copyediting, I decided that their notability was tenuous, and discussed it here. As a result of the discussion I therefore prodded the band article and the record label . Morrissey removed the endorsed prods, and undid all of my copyediting (much of which was actually to remove puffery and correct "Germlish" ("UK-Tour", etc.).

I would also note that his comment to Fae regarding deletion of a picture on "Somewhere in America", he claimed he created the picture that was deleted, which indicates a potential COI, which seems to be reinforced by a later comment.

As the prods were removed, I therefore sent the band, album, and label articles to AfD. In apparent retaliation, Morrissey has prodded John J. Robinson and Believer (Laura Dawn album) which are both articles I created. To find them, he went to my created articles page, so there is definite retaliatory intent, as he touched nothing else that I've substantially contributed to otherwise, and in fact, the Laura Dawn album was one edit. The prods really need to be removed, but I don't particularly like article creators removing prods on their own articles under any circumstances, so someone else will need to do it.

To specifically address those prods, for the Robinson article, Morrissey said "NN Author- no relevance, no awards for books, doesn't hit Misplaced Pages:Notability (people). This author is maybe important for a small group of people, but non-relevant for Misplaced Pages folks" None of which is even a legitimate basis for prodding. Robinson published a book that is de facto reading for almost every researcher in Masonic history (because it wasn't written by a Mason). It was reviewed by two major reviewers (as cited in the preface) because of its high demand in libraries. Robinson went on to publish two more books. This is clearly stated in the article.

The Laura Dawn album prod has the following statement by Morrissey: "NN Artis- and album is not not relevant. No chart rankings or third party sources of relevance available. No reliable sources or references of relevance of both artist nor artist. No major release, everyone in the musicbiz can do distro via a Major distribution meanwhile. Poor rating on Allmusic, no relevance on WP in my opinion." Now, the album was distributed by Warner Bros., so it was a major release by an artist who also has her own WP article. The deprodder found several sources, including Billboard. Apparently Morrissey didn't even bother to look for them.

Morrissey1976 also indicated the following on the Somewhere in America AfD: "Notice MSJapan "Hitradio Ö3 is one of the nationwide radio stations of Austria's public broadcaster ORF" "Radio Wien is the regional radio for Vienna, and is part of the Österreich 2 group" as cleary is seeable on the pages of the radio stations. Learn to read, or in case you can't, let me know, so I will read it aloud for you. User:Morrissey1976 (talk) 11:51, 12 August 2015 (CET+1)" .

On the Notability page discussion, he also states the following (emphasis mine) "I'm not a periodically contributor to WP, and most of the stuff is music-related, so you're right, there are too many editions happened, which is clearly a mistake of mine. I've requested the movement of the Cornerstone dab page because for me it's sounds like a logical thing, to get a page with the different meanings of the term "Cornerstone", and not one meaning, with a shortlink, that there are more meanings. 'Of course I did this, to get more recognition for my site..." That pretty much sounds like ownership, a conflict of interest, and a single purpose to me.

The user apparently duplicated the Smalltown Boy article at some point in the past: .

According to his response on the Somewhere in America AfD, I'm now an SPA. Guess nobody noticed for ten years:"Regarding the other topics: Requested movements of Cornerstone dab page and Cornerstone happened because of logical point of views and an easier search modus for the several meanings of the term Cornerstone. Probably user is also an SPA for the "Cornerstone dab page” and “Cornerstone” (haven’t checked out yet)." Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Somewhere in America (album)

Also some snide comments on the ATOM AfD: "Notice ATOM Records has one chart-ranking with Cornerstone and noteable musicans Jon Butcher (three albums in the Billboard 200, several singles in various charts) and Leland Sklar in it's rooster, one of the most prominent Bass-players in the music-business. MSJapan, by clicking this blue underlined words on every WP page, you'll redirected to the related pages, where you can check out all of the facts. I'm sorry that you're obviously not know that, but absolutely no problem to help out :-)" User:Morrissey1976 (talk) 12:02, 12 August 2015 (CET+1) (from Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/ATOM_Records)

The user has apparently "contacted Misplaced Pages to have my IP blocked for vandalism." (according to the diff edit comment). Therefore, the WP:OWN is getting out of hand and so is the behavior of the user, who was notified of the discussion. MSJapan (talk) 17:37, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

• I've gone ahead and closed those malformed move requests. I has a disappoint. -- Orduin 19:11, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Since I usually work WP:COIN problems, I did some cleanup on the article. They probably do pass WP:MUSIC, just barely, having two releases on a major label and some awards, and the AfD seems to be headed for "weak keep". They certainly don't get to have the base article for "Cornerstone" even in the band space; there are other bands named "Cornerstone" (Misplaced Pages knows of three, Google turns up at least five, and two of them were in trademark litigation), plus various companies and churches. Closing out their move requests regarding the disambig page was reasonable enough. This looks like a routine new-editor COI problem, from someone who hasn't yet realized that Misplaced Pages is not a vehicle for promotion. (We get these all the time at WP:COIN, and only rarely does someone have to go to AN/I and ask for the use of the big admin hammer. Band self-promotion is almost retro. A few years ago, that was a big thing, but now corporate PR is the big COI problem.) I'd suggest to the involved editor that they edit some articles on subjects with which they are not involved to gain experience with Misplaced Pages, and avoid editing on this subject for a while. We can try assuming good faith for now. Keep watching the article, of course. Thanks. John Nagle (talk) 19:49, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

What major label did you find? The whole basis of the problem was that their releases are on an indie label out of Ohio. The album articles are even tagged with the catalog number from that indie label, and the notability of those albums are predicated on the charting of a single that wasn't even on those albums. Also, this is not a new editor; the edit histories go back sporadically over several years - The two Morrissey accounts only edit those articles; clearly someone simply lost their password in the past. MSJapan (talk) 20:20, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

You're right. I thought ATOM Records was a major label. They're not. Changed my vote at AfD to "Comment". Also noted that the promotional picture of the band they uploaded (File:Cornerstone Promo.jpg) never had its copyright issue resolved properly through ORTS, so I temporarily removed the image from the article until that is resolved, and put a note on the ORTS notice board to get it resolved. Some additional eyes on the AfDs for Cornerstone (Austrian band) and ATOM Records would be appreciated. This may all be deleted, in which case the content and user behaviour issues become moot. Thanks. John Nagle (talk) 20:54, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

MSJapan, maybe my research of the quality of your articles was a direct result to your strong efforts, to remove the pages I've created. There are some users here, who are not regular distributors to WP, or write just about topics, with which they are familiar with. Btw., incorrect research of yours. I've created more pages on the german WP, for the English WP I've worked on the Cornerstone-Pages and did contributions from time to time on other pages. For example, most of your articles are related to the freemasonry-church, so I suppose you are strongly involved with that, which is ok, you are probably familiar with. Every user should write about the topics, he is familiar with.

I CLEARLY pointed out the facts about Cornerstone in the AFD-pages, so it is completely unnecessary to talk about this topic again. I suppose, you personally hate the band for whatever reasons, and it seems like, you construct and try to figure out ways, to remove the pages I've created, and simply ignore reliable facts and references ("Hitradio Ö3" and "Radio Wien" are just local stations, etc -> incorrect). Talking about "behaviour", reading your comments and references on the removement pages, which are full of rejections and subliminal allusions, we could forward the discussion here quite long , I guess. Writing articles and discussions using Special WP-terms and arrogant, incorrect allegations doesn't cause, you are right. My comments and "behaviour" were a direct reaction to your behaviour. Everything comes back in life.

Just for the records, the album "Head Over Heels" was released in Europe via Sony Music Entertainment, and the bands OWNS the trademark rights to the name Cornerstone in the most common music markets (Not "Two of them had a trademark issue, the TRADEMARKED, AUSTRIAN BAND "Cornerstone" had an trademark issue, because they own the trademark), many bands used this name and had to remove their content from Social-Media platforms, Distribution Platforms, etc. ANYWAY, to cut a long story short: I really don't have the time, to reference to sources all day long and do discussions here with you. So, as a gesture of peace, may I suggest, that I'll do better research and reference for the articles I create(d), so I'll leave your pages alone, and you'll leave my pages alone (except it is a constructive contribution)? User:Morrissey1976|Morrissey1976]] (Morrissey1976|talk) 00:15, 13 August 2015 (CET+1)

The barrelling editor from IP 72.229.40.94

It seems IP 72.229.40.94 is being used by a barrelling editor, i.e. one who edits with absolutely no communication on talk pages or through edit summaries. I didn't bring this to WP:AIV because many edits look constructive, though some are dubious or just plain wrong. The issue came to the forefront for me because on the article for Sage the Gemini, three recent edits assert September 2015 , then December 2015 , then November 2015 as a release date, none of which have actually transpired yet. From this, it seems as though the editor is just making things up as they go.

The IP talk page gives a pretty good picture of the community's concerns, ending with a couple of templates I used along with personalized comments. I can see the good faith, but it can't be good for an editor to unilaterally plough through Misplaced Pages with absolutely no discussion or accountability. I trust that an administrator reading this will have the tools and wisdom to effect a solution to prevent further risk of damage. Willondon (talk) 19:02, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Spamming IP and their persistence in adding a non-used source into articles

This source is being continually added to articles, including FA's, where it is not being used. The IP appears to be one of many sock puppets and is adding the source into articles for no other reason other than to promote and spam. 90.201.206.155, 90.193.120.97, 86.5.179.88, 84.92.105.164 are just four of the many IP address' being used. Cassianto 19:17, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

A source does not need to be used as an inline citation to be useful. However, I agree this wholesale introduction to every article on silent film actors seems suspicious, and should be in a Further reading section rather than shown as a reference. General Ization 19:24, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

That view is purely subjective as the articles I write omit sources which are not used. Otherwise where would one stop when it comes to adding books that aren't used? If we were to have a featured article on, say cookery, the "Further reading" section would run into thousands. A line has to be drawn and the earlier the better, as far as I'm concerned. Cassianto 19:37, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

No, not really purely subjective. See WP:GENREF. "A general reference is a citation to a reliable source that supports content, but is not linked to any particular piece of material in the article through an inline citation. General references are usually listed at the end of the article in a 'References' section, and are usually sorted by the last name of the author or the editor." This assumes, though, that the cited reference is actually used as a reference by the article's creator and/or a later contributor in the production of the current article. That does not seem to be the case here. General Ization 19:41, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

FWIW: If you Google the author, he's a major contributor to IMBD silent film articles, and the book does come up on Amazon. However, as it is already out of print, and the listed publisher on Amazon (Anchor Print Group, Ltd.) is a copy shop, this is reasonably certain to be the author adding his own work, especially if it's not being used in the article. considering he embellished his own IMDB bio with trivia on his grandkids only he would know, I'm not surprised. MSJapan (talk) 19:43, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

It should be noted also that this activity has been going on since early 2013, perhaps even longer, and affects nearly 160 articles. I haven't confirmed but have the sense that none of the edits are recent. General Ization 19:46, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

And I have a sneaking suspicion that the author's work may be at least substantially based on data gleaned from Misplaced Pages articles, so a bit of a circular phenomenon has occurred here. General Ization 19:50, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

All the more reason why something should be done. Cassianto 19:55, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Look here this IP added the book to over two hundred articles. Amazon.uk says the book covers 3,700 actors in 470 pages, so that's about 8 actors per page. Hardly the level of in-depth coverage that would be useful to a Misplaced Pages editor. I think it would be a good idea to remove the book from the 15 150 or so articles where it's currently extant. Perhaps this is a candidate for an edit filter? -- Diannaa (talk) 20:02, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I was mistaken. 84.92.105.164, for one, is quite prolifically active, and doing nothing but adding this ref book title to articles as recently as today. General Ization 20:05, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I suggest that this "source" be removed from all articles. See this. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

 Done (by numerous editors), except two cases one case where actually cited as an inline ref. General Ization 21:03, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

If this source has been written based on information taken from Misplaced Pages, then I would question its reliability per WP:RS, so I'd be inclined to to remove that one too. Cassianto 21:13, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

That was pure speculation on my part (though I'd be willing to wager it's correct). General Ization 21:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

@Diannaa: The edit filter idea makes sense to deal with this seeming abuse going forward. How does one request one be created, and what would you propose as the rationale for it? The author has (hypothetically) written several books, so what would be used as a reliable filter expression? General Ization 21:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Not sure how to get the ball rolling on creating an edit filter. Edit filter mavens include @Reaper Eternal:, @Ponyo:, @Nyttend: Pinging these three as potential helpers. -- Diannaa (talk) 21:23, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not at all technically savvy: I haven't the slightest clue on what to do. My interests with edit filters involve identifying false positives; I don't know how to prevent them or how to write filters in the first place. But Reaper Eternal should be able to help, as he's demonstrated in the past :-) Nyttend (talk) 21:31, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't be of help either. The only reason I have the edit filter manager box ticked is to view private filters in relation to SPIs. --Jezebel's Ponyo 21:33, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Copyvio

AMMAR19UL93ISLAM (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has added a bunch of copyvios, much of it also being rambling, vulgarly religious POV.--Anders Feder (talk) 20:39, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

I've gotten rid of the copy vio and given a final warning. I will watch -- Diannaa (talk) 20:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

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