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Revision as of 14:22, 1 January 2021 editAmirahBreen (talk | contribs)7,961 edits →Sourcing Siad Barre as uncle: removed my commentsTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile edit← Previous edit Revision as of 14:31, 1 January 2021 edit undoAmirahBreen (talk | contribs)7,961 edits →Neutrality: removed my commentsTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit Advanced mobile editNext edit →
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== Neutrality == == Neutrality ==
There is a tag on this article about disputed neutrality. If any editor has doubts about the neutrality of any section of the article please discuss here. ] (]) 00:34, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
: Yes, largely because you've removed anything positive about the subject and added nothing by criticism, creating a decidedly unbalanced article. Looking at the edit history, most of the article's current content under ] has been , and is entirely negative. At the same time, you've removed (first large tracts of text with canned edit summaries that included positive information. Examples of improper removal of positive content: : Yes, largely because you've removed anything positive about the subject and added nothing by criticism, creating a decidedly unbalanced article. Looking at the edit history, most of the article's current content under ] has been , and is entirely negative. At the same time, you've removed (first large tracts of text with canned edit summaries that included positive information. Examples of improper removal of positive content:
:* with the edit summary "Immediate removal of unsourced contentious material about a living person according to Misplaced Pages guidelines." That's a complete misapplication of BLP policy; that section was reasonably sourced, and had absolutely no BLP violations. :* with the edit summary "Immediate removal of unsourced contentious material about a living person according to Misplaced Pages guidelines." That's a complete misapplication of BLP policy; that section was reasonably sourced, and had absolutely no BLP violations.
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:: I restored most of this content to the article. The ] section is still heavily weighted towards negative material, so I think the disputed neutrality tag should stay on until someone can revise it to present a more balanced view. ] (]) 19:25, 30 December 2020 (UTC) :: I restored most of this content to the article. The ] section is still heavily weighted towards negative material, so I think the disputed neutrality tag should stay on until someone can revise it to present a more balanced view. ] (]) 19:25, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
::: Agreed; that section still feels rather lopsided in terms of criticism. <b>] ]</b> 19:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC) ::: Agreed; that section still feels rather lopsided in terms of criticism. <b>] ]</b> 19:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

The material I removed did not have citations, it was contentious because there are elections coming up and it is unfair on opposition candidates and undemocratic for politicians to have uncited material in their favour which puts them at an unfair advantage. If you re-instate any of the material which I removed please do at least make sure it is properly cited. ] (]) 13:13, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:31, 1 January 2021

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 19:29, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Mohamed Abdullahi Farmajo → Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed – The subject's real name and the page's original title. This is also the WP:COMMONNAME (c.f. Ewumiqf.&channel=fe&fp=4abcb7c7e98f1287&hl=en&q=%22Mohamed+Abdullahi+Mohamed%22, ). Middayexpress (talk) 15:45, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified (February 2018)

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Date discrepancies

{{Help}} Is his birthday on the 12 or 11 of March? Because in the Somali language Misplaced Pages it has 5 of March. Farmajo also has two birth years which one is his correct birthday ? Please fix it for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.148.100 (talk) 19:47, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

We don't use the help template for normal content discussions. You didn't note the discrepancy on the date he assumed office, for which the source is unclear. Better sources need to be provided or these details will have to be removed from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 19:52, 3 March 2020‎ Jmcgnh (talk • contribs)
I see that you made changes to the article but neither the before nor after version of the article contain suitable references that support the dates you have given. We have a good source for the date of election, no good source for the specific date of inauguration (just saying "Wednesday" leaves enough ambiguity to fail), and, when I looked, the sources given do not support even the birth year, much less a date of birth. The article on Somali Misplaced Pages is unsourced, so gives no hints as to where to look for better sources. — jmcgnh 06:58, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Sourcing Siad Barre as uncle

Template:BLP noticeboard There is currently a disagreement on whether the statement " The deposed Somali dictator Siad Barre was Farmaajo's uncle." in the opening paragraph. There are a few issues with this: (1) "Dictator" seems to be pushing POV a bit; yes, there are good sources that describe Barre's governance as "increasingly dictatorial," but it seems more neutral to simply describe him as "President"; the article about him has more details. (2) There are only a few Somali sources that describe uncle/nephew relationship. Most sources that mention both men do not describe any familial connection (e.g. , , ). None of the sources that do use the word "uncle" describe exactly how they are related (via his father or mother?); every source that uses the term "uncle" uses it in the context of criticism. It seems possible that "uncle" is being used here in a more loose sense (i.e., Fictive kinship? (3) we have a mixed precedent for mentioning notable relations in the first paragraph, e.g. George W. Bush (yes), Bam Aquino (no), Arthur Balfour (no). Google search note: complicating efforts to track down sources are the spelling variations here: Farmajo/Farmaajo, Said/Syed, Bare/Baare/Barre. OhNoitsJamie 15:20, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I already acknowledged that Siad Barre used the term "dictatorial" to describe his role; I don't think it's necessary to mention that in the sentence describing the relationship. Can you point me to the source that describes them as "relatives"? All of the sources that mention the word "uncle" are Somali-based critical articles about him; I have yet to see any international sources that mention such a relationship. OhNoitsJamie 17:56, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
Somali Dispatch is questionable in terms of being a reliable source; while purporting to be neutral, it doesn't appear to be connected to any sort of news agency, and is rather a self-published opinion website out of Canada (all of the articles are either attributed to "Admin" or a "MOHAMED ADAN"). I also find it odd that this article from Africanews nor this one from AllAfrica (both sources that more easily meets WP:RS guidelines) cover Farmaajo's admissions of the excesses of the Barre regime without mentioning any familial connection. There's certainly a lot of opposition and challenges to Farmaajo, which leads me to believe that the limited sources describing the "uncle" relationship are attempts to discredit him by linking him to Barre. If Barre was indeed his uncle, why does it seem like only opposition articles are mentioning it? OhNoitsJamie 20:44, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
I didn't add the neutrality tag regarding the last few edits; I added it regarding additions to the article in the last month. I'm concerned that it's heavily weighted on criticism of the subject; it reads like a running tally of every criticism ever leveled against him. Obviously any elected official is going to have criticism leveled at them, but I'd like others to weigh in on the overall balance of this article, especially editors with more knowledge of Horn of Africa politics. OhNoitsJamie 23:49, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Neutrality

Yes, largely because you've removed anything positive about the subject and added nothing by criticism, creating a decidedly unbalanced article. Looking at the edit history, most of the article's current content under Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed#Presidential_term_(2017–present) has been added by you, and is entirely negative. At the same time, you've removed (first large tracts of text with canned edit summaries that included positive information. Examples of improper removal of positive content:
  • Here, you removed the entire "Reforms" section with the edit summary "Immediate removal of unsourced contentious material about a living person according to Misplaced Pages guidelines." That's a complete misapplication of BLP policy; that section was reasonably sourced, and had absolutely no BLP violations.
  • Here is another example of the same; you've removed a sourced quote from an Italian politician supporting Mohamed's position on the Kampala agreement. Please explain to me how that violates WP:BLP.
The entirety of the material you improperly gutted from the article can be seen here. OhNoitsJamie 15:14, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
I restored most of this content to the article. The Mohamed_Abdullahi_Mohamed#Presidential_term_(2017–present) section is still heavily weighted towards negative material, so I think the disputed neutrality tag should stay on until someone can revise it to present a more balanced view. Rublov (talk) 19:25, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
Agreed; that section still feels rather lopsided in terms of criticism. OhNoitsJamie 19:51, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
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