| Revision as of 07:49, 14 July 2009 editFranamax (talk | contribs)18,113 edits →Advise me medically please :): new section← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 07:02, 30 December 2024 edit undo46.154.92.71 (talk) →Türkce: new sectionTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit New topic | ||
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| == Cheer == | |||
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| {{Template:Cardiologytaskforce/invitation}} ] (]) 12:27, 2 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| An amazing diff and the fact that you're still being pointed to should cheer you up. | |||
| <p> | |||
| We still don't have ] and I need to either put ]/] on the list (]) or get around to submitting it at ]. | |||
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| ] (]) 14:41, 30 April 2021 (UTC) | |||
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| It seems to me that she wrote "can anyone put in simple terms what osseous stucurs and soft tissue uptake, and osteo blasic lesions mean", she was asking for clarification, not advice. I fear that the medical advice discussion in talk may be causing us to see medical advice requests where none may be. – ]] 04:33, 5 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| You must be well aware of the guideline this violates, yet you intentionally continue to violate it. Why ? ] (]) 04:49, 5 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| :<small>Hope you guys don't mind the intrusion.</small> Stu, I'd like to know why you think it's so important that this guideline be maintained on the reference desk talk page. How will it improve the refdesk? I've left a message before on your talk page regarding this and I still don't know how the reference desk is harmed when the thread discussing a medremoval has a title saying that the question seeks "medical advice". Your continued editting and debating regarding this inconsequential matter is ''far'' more disruptive and gets close to a violation of ]. ] (]) 10:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| ::Don't you find editors, like Ten, intentionally choosing biased titles to be "disruptive and close to a violation of ]" ? It's very much the same reason we don't say things like "the murderer is going on trial today". There should be no presumption of guilt. Wouldn't you consider it disruptive if we posted titles like "Improper removal by Ten of non-medical advice Q" ? ] (]) 17:42, 5 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| :::I find editors who fiddle with, whine about, lecture over, and argue incessantly on minor semantics in section headers to be "disruptive and close to a violation of ]", really. Scoot. ](]) 17:52, 5 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| :::I would not find it disruptive. When someone posts a new section on a talk page, the title is part of their post, and it is entirely reasonable that their post express their opinions. You've even been known to do this yourself on occasion, as for example. Do you think that the refdesk talkpage operates by different rules on this? ] 17:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| ::StuRat's continued insistence on owning section headers strikes me as petulant. I've asked him to stop that before, with no useful results. ] ] 17:50, 5 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| :::I don't own it. Anyone who wants to change a heading to be neutral can do so. Or, even better, the authors of the titles can actually attempt to make them neutral to begin with, rather than intentionally pushing their own opinions. ] (]) 05:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| :Ten, you haven't answered me. Why do you insist on putting your own opinion is talk page section titles ? ] (]) 05:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| == Medical advice and First aid == | |||
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| First off, thank you for your thoughtful message; I appreciate the time taken, and the gesture. I guess the sticking point for me is that when I started on the RDs, the prohibition was on ''regulated'' advice of any kind, be it legal, medical, or animal-related (veterinarial?) and that's always been my rule of thumb. First aid, by its very nature, is not regulated advice; it's designed to be taught by and used by ordinary laypeople. When we switched the header information at the top of the desks a few months ago, that phrasing changed as part of an attempt to make the header a bit more inviting, but the old rule of thumb has stuck with me because it seems pointless to worry about advice that's not regulated in any way in the real world. For example, we do not hesitate to give advice pertaining to replacing computer hardware or high-pressure lighting fixtures (despite the possibility of shock), or on social/dating advice (despite the various ugly possibilities, however unlikely) and I've never had a problem with any of them because none of that knowledge is regulated. FWIW, I find this situation doubly-puzzling because I tend to favour a liberal interpretation of the removal procedure, though I don't bother to raise the subject much because it's all been hashed over so many times before. Anyway, thanks again for your input; I'll abide by whatever we end up deciding, though if history tells me anything, it's that nothing will actually get decided. :-/ ] (]) 23:38, 23 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| == Loomis == | |||
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| Hello Ten. I received a short, and very to the point, email from {{user5|Loomis51}} requesting his talk page be unprotected (for reasons unspecified). Since you protected his page, I figured I would refer it to you. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 00:17, 24 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| 22:53, 15 April 2022 (UTC) | |||
| : Yes, mine was equally abrupt. I'll leave it to your judgment. ]<font color="black">e</font>] 05:16, 24 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| My information on the use of this mercury compound in zinc-air hearing aid button cells came to me by an electrochemical engineer at RayOVac, and the Chief Engineer at Phonak USA, the largest hearing aid mfr in the world and largest buyer of VARTA hearing aid batteries (private labeled Phonak in many countries), as when the ban went into effect in 5 states, they pushed it on everybody as the EU also banned it. This caused energy storage capacity to drop about 20% at first as the battery mfr's scrambled to find a substitute (to the detriment of hearing aid, CI, and BAHA users worldwide; and VARTA was the first to solve the riddle in late 2017, gaining back what was lost, per the testing performed at Phonak USA and also at their Stäfa HQ. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span> | |||
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| I can no longer cope with your, and you cronies', deliberate and persistent harassment of editors who disagree with your highly idiosyncratic interpretation of guidelines, and with your ownership of the RefDesks. I have therefore removed the desks from my watchlist, and shall not be contributing to them for until I feel better able to cope. I shall not be watchlisting this page, as your insolent and abusive responses to other editors who question your disruptive behaviour are too upsetting to me. I do not expect, nor do I want, any reply. ] (]) 01:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| == Medical questions on the refdesk == | |||
| The Wikimedia Foundation Inc. Board of Trustees election ends soon, ''']'''. At least one of ] is worthy of support. --] (]) 14:46, 5 September 2022 (UTC) | |||
| Hello Kainaw, TenOfAllTrades and Scray, | |||
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| Please take a look at ], along with my response ] , and my response and Tango's answer on ]. I'm asking the three of you directly instead of raising the issue directly on the refdesk's talk page, because I feel the discussions there on such matters lately have been rather predictable and unproductive. Your opinions would be greatly valued. If two of the three of you feel that the OP is asking for medical advice, I'll remove it myself, with a note on the refdesk talk page. Please reply on ]. Thanks, --]<sup>]</sup> 07:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :It was naïve of me not to move this to the talk page in the first place, the meta-discussion started building up on the refdesk itself. I've moved the meta-discussion now. Your opinion will be greatly appreciated ], instead of on mine as I initially suggested. Thanks. --]<sup>]</sup> 20:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| <div class="ivmbox " style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #AAA; background-color: ivory; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center; "> | |||
| <small> Delivered by ]]] at 20:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC) for the Village pump. ]. </small> | |||
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| See ]. I am asking for your advice, as you spent (or wasted?) I don't know how many hours and cups of coffee collecting and categorizing puppets of another refdesk friend. Is it worth the effort? If so, I don't <s>care</s> mind doing this, but it will take some time. On the one hand I prefer ignoring, on the other hand I'm tired of seeing excellent contributors fall for his faux-naiveté, sophistry, and general mean-spiritedness. Thoughts? (Either here or at WT:RD, whichever you find more appropriate). ---] ] 00:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| == I apologise for my actions. I will apologise to Arthur Rubin and say yes he was right to call my contribution that Inflation is always bad for the economy nonsense. == | |||
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| Here are the facts of this silly matter: | |||
| == Hi! == | |||
| 1. I changed the Inflation article to read that inflation IS and not only CAN BE bad for the economy. Arthur Rubin reverted that and stated it is NONSENSE. | |||
| 2. I left this message on his talk page: '''Sir, I would appreciate it very much if you would be so kind as not to use insulting language like nonsense as you recently did on the Inflation | |||
| article.''' | |||
| Hi! Friends. ] (]) 11:32, 1 May 2023 (UTC) | |||
| 3. He responded that the truth is sometimes insulting. | |||
| 4. I deleted my first comment on his talk page and left a second that I will call him Mr Nonsense from now on. | |||
| == ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message == | |||
| I was being polite to Arthur Rubin. He carried on insulting me. I do not see you reprimanding him. Then I tried to put an end to the event with a joke. You do not accept that. Now show us that you are fair: Go and threaten Arthur Rubin with a banning order for stating that my contribution is NONSENSE. Or is fairness not a Misplaced Pages value. Or can I now freely tell contributors here on Misplaced Pages their contributions are NONSENSE when I do not agree with them? | |||
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| You are right in your defense of Arthur Rubin: It is better for me to be insulted here on Misplaced Pages than to try and stop the effects of an insult by means of a joke. You are 100% right: I should just have taken the insult quietly. | |||
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| I apologise for my actions. I will apologise to Arthur Rubin and say yes he was right to call my contribution that Inflation is always bad for the economy NONSENSE.] (]) 08:33, 7 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| I made this change as there's suggestion I'm aware of that the editor was a friend of Seigenthaler. You may have been confused by the fact that 1) The editor did it as a prank on a friend of his (I'm not sure if the details were ever revealed) 2) A friend of Seigenthaler discovered the vandalism and made Seigenthaler aware of it. Read the article for further details. Normally I wouldn't edit an essay in userspace without permission but I felt this serious enough to correct on the spot per ] (yes I appreciate the irony in this case but I'm serious here and not trying to be ironic or joking) ] (]) 18:08, 8 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| TOAT, I sent you an email in an attempt to suggest that you mediate a dispute with ], in the hope that, as someone I expected would be sympathetic to him, you might be able to approach him to help resolve the dispute. Your response was less than satisfactory, and accused me of trying to "manipulate Misplaced Pages processes." I am copying my mail to you here; you requested that further communications with you be on your Talk page; I request permission to reply to your mail here, which would necessitate quoting it. Thanks. My mail to you follows. --] (]) 01:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| {{collapse top|Abd's email}} | |||
| Thanks for your comment at http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:William_M._Connolley#GoRight.27s_Follow-up_Questions . I'm looking for someone whom WMC might trust who would, upon becoming informed more fully about the situation, intercede to prevent him from being take to ArbComm over this. The situation is quite as clear to me as was the situation in January with JzG, but there is a difference now: ArbComm advised me to proceed more quickly up the ladder of DR. | |||
| == Invitation to participate in a research == | |||
| I follow DR using minimal disruption, and this is why I acted to close the AN/I discussion over the alleged vote alterations, instead of turning it into a complaint about WMC. That discussion wasn't relevant to this ban. And I'm not planning on taking this to a noticeboard, because it will generate much heat and little light. There is now a basis for an RfC, but there are factions aligned, and RfC is unlikely to resolve the issue, so this might be a straight-to-ArbComm case. I don't think I'll lose, ToAT, but you are certainly free to disagree. Many expected me to be banned as a result of RfAr/Abd and Jzg, but I was more commended than even troutslapped, as I read it. Maybe I'm biased. | |||
| Hello, | |||
| There is some background you might not be aware of. I don't want to distract you from your work, so I'm not sending it to you now, but I could. I'm trying to confine discussion to a few people who might be able to resolve this, most of it is off-wiki. A few words from the right editor to WMC might resolve this whole thing with no more fuss. WMC's action had the appearance of improving things, but, if you were to look at the full evidence, I think you would conclude otherwise. If you think you might be able to help, let me know. | |||
| The Wikimedia Foundation is conducting a survey of Wikipedians to better understand what draws administrators to contribute to Misplaced Pages, and what affects administrator retention. We will use this research to improve experiences for Wikipedians, and address common problems and needs. We have identified you as a good candidate for this research, and would greatly appreciate your participation in this ''''''. | |||
| I tried to do this with JzG, though possibly less effectively. He didn't get desysopped, but that's because he played his last get-out-of-jail-free card, and was put on a short leash, as one admin said to me, and he's completely stopped editing, unfortunately. I have no personal opinion as to whether or not WMC's admin bit is a net asset or net liability to the project, I've seen evidence for both, though, and, fortunately, the decision will not be up to me. But the hazard to his bit could be quickly averted, and if the feared disruption appears at Talk Cold fusion, and I were the cause of it, any admin could restore the ban or block me if necessary. Thanks for considering the situation. | |||
| You do not have to be an Administrator to participate. | |||
| One more note: I'm not suggesting that any admin attempt to reverse WMC's ban, that would be wheel-warring. There is process that could be used to establish -- or reject -- the ban, with a proper close, but my judgment is that outcome would be quirky and the process would cause more disruption than it's worth. Misplaced Pages will not fall because I can't edit Cold fusion or Talk cold fusion for a while. The best way for this matter to be resolved with minimal fuss is for WMC to recuse, which, with an unlogged ban, as it stands, effectively undoes it until it's confirmed by another admin. That's my interpretation, anyway. To guarantee minimal fuss, he should lift the ban without prejudice. He can look generous, if he likes. "Okay, I've decided that there is no more need for this ban, and if Abd behaves himself in the future, I won't reinstate it." Thus postponing any need for escalation. I don't escalate moot points. Thanks again. --] (]) 01:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| :Frankly, no. I do not give you permission to use my talk page as yet another forum for your interminable wikilawyering, soapboxing, and rambling. In your confrontation with JzG, you wasted six months of dozens of editors' time, including members of ArbCom who have better things to do. In the remedies in that case, the ArbCom did not overturn any of JzG's actions, and they did not choose to desysop JzG: ]. Further, they didn't come ''close'' to it. The lone Arbitrator who commented on your overblown and ridiculous proposal that he be desysopped (]) noted that it was "Excessive and unwarranted". For some reason, you've chosen to repeatedly refer to this case as evidence that JzG escaped desysopping by the skin of his teeth. | |||
| :Worse still, you've attempted to use this misinterpreted case as a blunt (and broken) tool to try to badger WMC into lifting your well-deserved ban from ] and ]. You've alternately attempted to bully and cajole other editors on and off wiki into getting WMC to overturn his call here, because apparently "the process that could be used to establish -- or reject -- the ban...would cause more disruption than it's worth." I'm sorry, but I can't help but read that as, "because it won't give you the outcome that you want". You're threatening to skip straight to Arbitration - based on a non-precedent - because you don't trust any of the proper community venues not to tell you to quit the lawyerly walls of text. Your oh-so-generous offers to WMC to let him keep his bit if he lets you resume your WP:OWNership of ] demonstrates a painful lack of self-awareness. | |||
| :This is now the third time I've given you the same advice — put down the rulebook, and demonstrate through successful mediation (mediation which you had already agreed would be worthwhile!) that you can work effectively with other editors. With that evidence in hand, there's little doubt in my mind that WMC would be willing to lift your ban. | |||
| :Stop wasting my time now, please. You are not welcome to use my talk page as yet another forum to repeat your threats and distortions. If you have any issues about my conduct, please proceed to the next step at ]; don't raise this topic again here. You're not resolving a dispute by continuing to contact me; you're simply playing to the crowd. ](]) 02:51, 10 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::Sure. But you suggested I contact you here, and you made serious charges in your response to me. I've notified ] that I no longer consent to the ban and consider it void. Do with that what you like, but please stay within guidelines and policy. Thanks. --] (]) 04:29, 10 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| ==Ramu50 Again/ANI Post== | |||
| Since you are one of two blocking admins on the Ramu50 account, I bring an ANI post about Ramu50 to your attention. You can see it ]. Thanks...<small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;">] • ] • 02:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)</small> | |||
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| == Plagiarism blocks == | |||
| ] | |||
| I find your comment at ] quite profoundly worrying. Are you seriously suggesting that editors should be blocked for violation of what is only a guideline, and a hotly disputed guideline at that? Please reply either here or at the talk page, otherwise I will be forced to take the entire discussion to ]. Best wishes. ] ] 13:36, 16 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">] (]) 19:22, 23 October 2024 (UTC) </bdi> | |||
| :Responded at the talk page. Afterwards, I did a bit of poking around; I hadn't realized you had such a strong opinion on plagiarism. | |||
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| ::''"Misplaced Pages is not a class assignment, "plagiarism" which does not violate copyright is a meaningless concept...more resources wasted which could have been used to improve the encyclopedia."'' | |||
| :We're obviously gazing across a broad ethical divide, here. If you've been unconvinced so far that plagiarism (''even'' in the absence of copyvio) is harmful to the project, I shan't browbeat you; you've heard it all already. ](]) 14:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| I don't think the divide is ethical, more practical. Hundreds of convicted criminals edit Misplaced Pages every day, I am not obliged to share their ethics to respect them as editors. A small group of editors has shouted loudly that Misplaced Pages should have the same ethics as a class assignment, that is to test the individual author. I reject this completely. Misplaced Pages is not a test for the author of an article, it is a collaborative mechanism to diffuse knowledge. The proposed guideline would have no practical effect, but would approach article writing more to the "class assignment" model: "you can't write this if it's been written somewhere before". As the guideline is useless, and would pull Misplaced Pages away from it's central principles, I must oppose it, and strongly. ] ] 14:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :We don't care about their personal ethics, as long as editors follow Misplaced Pages policies. If they tried to operate an ongoing criminal enterprise using Misplaced Pages, I imagine that they'd be blocked pretty quickly. | |||
| :It's unfortunate indeed if you only had teachers who believed citing sources was an exercise in "test the individual author". In academia especially (though also in other areas to a lesser extent: politics, economics, corporate management, etc.) ideas are the coin of the realm. One doesn't have to pay cash on the barrelhead for powerful words and concepts, for elegant turns of phrase. The payment, instead, is attribution. It's not a legal contract, it's a social one. | |||
| :On a personal level, how would you feel if a coworker (or supervisor) took credit for your work without acknowledging your contribution? Plagiarism on Misplaced Pages is the identical problem, writ large. If we choose to ignore plagiarism as a victimless (non-)crime, then we also choose to forever reject the participation of the subject matter experts, the old hands, the academics who could so greatly enrich this project. We can choose to appear as lazy teenagers copying assignments from the Internet, or we can treat with thinkers, writers, researchers, scientists, leaders, and historians as equals. The author who is ''cited'' in Misplaced Pages is predisposed to think well of us, and to endorse us to colleagues. The writer whose work is ''plagiarized'' in Misplaced Pages writes us off as sloppy at best, thieves at worst. | |||
| :The fact that ] ''does'' (in part) overlap with so many other Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines (], ], ], ], ], ], etc.) should suggest to you not that this guideline is superfluous or redundant, but that it touches very close to the core of this project's standards and collective values. ](]) 15:13, 16 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ::TenOfAllTrades, I think you may be misunderstanding Physchim62's argument. I don't believe anyone here is saying that sources should not be cited, that content should not be attributed. I am certainly not saying that – I believe there should be at least one cited source at the end of each sentence in every WP article's body text. What I am less sure about is the notion that no sentence in the Misplaced Pages article must have a substantial similarity to the source wording. That everything needs to be reformulated to look completely different from the source wording, even if the amount of similarity fall short of raising any copyright concern. I believe this is what the debate is about. Or as Physchim62 wrote above, "you can't write this if it's been written somewhere before". '''<font color="#0000FF">]</font><font color=" #FFBF00">]</font>''' 17:06, 17 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| *Sorry 'bout that, your led me to believe it was. –<font face="verdana" color="black">]</font>] 15:34, 18 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
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| ]. Enjoy. ] (]) 00:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC) | |||
| :I almost posted that in the thread. How do we know the stress of editing didn't drive him to drink. Damned funny! :) - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;">] • ] • 00:49, 25 June 2009 (UTC)</small> | |||
| <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">] (]) 00:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC) </bdi> | |||
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| == Türkce == | |||
| Hi ToaT, I'm pretty sure there's no dispute here and the IP editor and I are cool with things, but I'd still appreciate your scrutiny and comment on my actions and justifications thereto. Basically, I removed comments from an article talk page , which discussed poking a red-hot safety pin into your fingernail. I'm pretty sure this ia a time-honoured folk remedy, nevertheless, I removed it, from an article talk page no less. My reasoning is pretty much all laid out in ] on my talk page. | |||
| türkce ] (]) 07:02, 30 December 2024 (UTC) | |||
| I'm pretty sure I violated multiple policies when I removed the thread, but I did it anyway. Your critique on this will be helpful. We have some well-established (and much argued) criteria on the RefDesks about medical advice, how far do they extend into the article and article-talk space? Thanks for any guidance you can supply! ] (]) 07:49, 14 July 2009 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 07:02, 30 December 2024
Cheer
An amazing diff and the fact that you're still being pointed to should cheer you up.
We still don't have immersion boiler and I need to either put double town/town couple on the list (Special:Whatlinkshere/double town) or get around to submitting it at User talk:Drmies.
Uncle G (talk) 14:41, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
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Thimerosal
My information on the use of this mercury compound in zinc-air hearing aid button cells came to me by an electrochemical engineer at RayOVac, and the Chief Engineer at Phonak USA, the largest hearing aid mfr in the world and largest buyer of VARTA hearing aid batteries (private labeled Phonak in many countries), as when the ban went into effect in 5 states, they pushed it on everybody as the EU also banned it. This caused energy storage capacity to drop about 20% at first as the battery mfr's scrambled to find a substitute (to the detriment of hearing aid, CI, and BAHA users worldwide; and VARTA was the first to solve the riddle in late 2017, gaining back what was lost, per the testing performed at Phonak USA and also at their Stäfa HQ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Discpad (talk • contribs)
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Hi!
Hi! Friends. Lovepreet1m9 (talk) 11:32, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
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