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	<big>''']'''</big>
			==Talk page header==
			===General===
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	== A barnstar for you! ==
			]
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
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	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For continuing to try to bring some reason to chaos. Enjoy your vacation, all the best! <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 01:11, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
	|}
			]
	Thank you so much! Just got back, and haven't gotten my head screwed on yet, but wanted to say thanks. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
			]
	== "an alternate universe." ==
			but you can use to download it as a CSV file. Just copy and paste the URL of the table page, then click on the send button.(By DreamRimmer)
	Hi. Did you mistakenly put a typo "an alternate universe" after my signature? Thank you. Regards, ] (]) 16:46, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
	:Never intended to do anything like that, so it sounds like I screwed up. Sorry. I'll go fix it. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:58, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
			]
	:: My guess is that it was meant for your edit summary but glitched. Regards, ] (]) 17:27, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
			https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:New_pages_patrol/Reviewers
	== August 2011 ==
	] Please do not ] legitimate talk page comments, as you did at ]. Such edits are disruptive and appear to be ]. If you would like to experiment, please use the ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:uw-tpv2 --> ] (]) 19:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
	:I didn't delete any comments. Splashing dead horse pictures all over the talk page and trying to unilaterally close multiple discussions, including brand new ones is a much better candidate to be called vandalism. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:16, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
	::There is an agreed upon consensus on the correct place to have this discussion. I am not acting unilaterally, I am enforcing that consensus. I hope you can productively raise your issues without reverting other's work. You might not like the consensus, but it doesn't cease to exist because you chose to. Please use the correct venue (the "first sentence" sub-talk page), as per consensus.--] (]) 19:24, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
	:::There was NO consensus to exclude these discussions from the main talk page. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:27, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
	::::There is, and you supported it: ] You can change your mind, but not unilaterally.--] (]) 19:44, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
	:::::I just went through it. I count '''TWO''' people who said move it, plus a third (me) who said have the main discussion there but explicitly NOT exclude it from the main talk page. So I am not changing my mind. Where is this alleged consensus that you are speaking for this huge and extreme action? Please self-revert. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:50, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
	::::::Stawpolls are not the sole way to gauge consensus. The wide-spread participation of many editors on those discussions, demonstrates the broadness of the consensus. Only you stand alone against it as it stands, beating a dead horse to obtain horsemeat.--] (]) 20:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::So you're saying the criteria for being counted as against what you are doing is only by reverting you? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (])
			]
	== A request ==
			]
	I ask that you consider taking time away from posting on ] or the subpage. Your posts there, particularly the multiple polls, became disruptive several weeks ago, and the page has basically ground to a halt because of it. I took six weeks off from editing either the policy or the talk page—from around June 20 until August 7—just to make sure other people's voices were heard equally, so I hope you'll consider doing the same. If your proposals are truly supported, they won't be affected by your absence. <font color="black">]</font> <small><sup><font color="gold">]</font><font color="lime">]</font></sup></small> 21:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
			https://www.mediawiki.org/Extension:PageTriage
	:I agree that the main talk page needs a breather from this whole topic. And I'm ready for quiet work on it in an obscure place for a while. If you want that to not be the subpage, that's fine with me but I just said there that I went along with the subpage idea. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:16, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
			https://www.mediawiki.org/Page_Curation
	::The main talk page needs a long, long breather. But I think you need a breather too from this topic, partly for your own sake, but also to see whether it has legs without you. At things stand, you're doing two things simultaneously (and in something of a contradiction): keeping it going, and strengthening opposition to it because of the overkill. If you would let it be, you would see whether it has legs of its own. Anyway, just a request. <font color="black">]</font> <small><sup><font color="gold">]</font><font color="lime">]</font></sup></small> 21:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
			]
	:::I'm ready to slip into low key "homework" on this, even without a request. Me suggesting that we adopt the first sentence just proposed/suggested by Jimbo Wales was a sort of special departure from that, I saw that as acting more as a facilitator. I noticed that somebody tried to hide the fact that it was HIS suggestion by changing the section title. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:38, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
			]
	::::But not before reverting and continuing to disrupt. You are posting an inherently POV poll; RfCs are supposed to be '''neutrally worded'''. I give up on you because it is pointless. <font color="black">]</font> <small><sup><font color="gold">]</font><font color="lime">]</font></sup></small> 21:47, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
			https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:NewPages
	::::: I don't think that it is POV to say who wrote the proposed wording. That was the original title of the section, it's the title that people commented under, and it provides the information of who wrote it. Since when in Misplaced Pages does saying the source of something get called "POV'ing" it? And don't forget there is a second dimension to this. I put up HIS suggestion, and people are removing the fact that it was HIS suggestion simultaneously with villianizing me for putting (it) up a suggestion on the first sentence. I call that dirty pool. But, as I said, I put it it up as a facilitator, and don't plan to further advocate it. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:03, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
			]
	==Merge discussion for ]==
	] An article that you have been involved in editing, ], has been proposed for a ] with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going {{ #if:Talk:List of The Price Is Right pricing games |]|to the article and clicking on the (Discuss) link at the top of the article}}, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. ] (]) 20:23, 1 September 2011 (UTC) <!-- Template:mergenote -->
	:Thanks. I did the merge. The article was a 95% copy of it's section in the target/parent article so it was easy. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:00, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
			https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:PrefixIndex/
	== ] ==
			Process for wp:AFC accept when the target is a redirect?
	* I think you should reconsider, based on the newly added sources. ] (]) 09:29, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
	::Thanks for pinging me. I have not been watching the article and I agree with you. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 09:38, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
	:::I went there and said that. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:44, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
			What is the process for accepting an article when the the target is currently a redirect? Tag the redirect with ] and move the AfC draft to mainspace after the redirect has been deleted under G6.
	==Barnstar==
			Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Xxxx
	{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|]|]}}
			===Essays===
	|rowspan="2" |
			====>90% by me====
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Half Barnstar'''
	|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your work with Blueboar, seems appropriate somehow even though I dropped one on you recently. <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 00:34, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
	|}
	Thanks! I'll have to let Blueboar know that we're sharing one. :-). You certainly also have one coming but I have to figure out how to do it right. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:42, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
			]
	== Political Views Discrimination ==
			]
	I have added to the talk page of discrimination why I believe your section should be removed I will give you three days to respond before I will attempt to remove it again.-] (]) 08:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
			]
	::Thanks for the heads up. Actually, it's not my section, I just reverted the removal of it. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:18, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
			] (just started)
	== ] ==
			] Major rework in progress
	Since you participated in ] you might be interested in ].] (]) 14:41, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
			====>50% by me====
	:Thanks for the heads up. That outcome surprises me, but I was just weighing in as an uninvolved person, so that result is fine with me even though it's not what I recommended. Thanks again. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:48, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
			]
	== A beer for you! ==
			==Topic of the Day==
	{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | It is a long rationale, but you've spent time on this. Good on ya! Have a Friday night beer. ] (]) 17:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
	|}
			{{totd}} wherever you want it to appear.
	Thanks! I'm sending one your way too. When this is over, some bigger ones will be due and I've already got yours named. :-) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:20, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
	== Two sentences of proposal ==		== ] Award for 2022 ==
	What do you think of my comments in the section ]? --] (]) 00:45, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
	:I think that it's good. Maybe not perfect (IMHO "a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion would be logically perfect) or realistic to be able to to have a bold out-of-the-blue edit stick on the first sentence, but a good addition. Kudos to you. :-) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:18, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
	::Thanks. Re "Maybe not perfect (IMHO "a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion would be logically perfect) or realistic to be able to to have a bold out-of-the-blue edit stick on the first sentence, but a good addition." - I didn't understand these comments since the mentioned items were not part of the edit. This edit concerns adding to the current policy just the two sentences, which were taken from the main proposal. It is not meant to replace the current proposal.
	::Please note that the more parts that the main proposal has, the more difficult it it will be for the proposal to gain a consensus. By getting this part into policy in advance, it will reduce the parts of the main proposal. And if this less-controversial or non-controversial part is not accepted, that information may be useful. If it is accepted, then at least part of the main proposal will have been successful and improved the policy page. Do you think it would be a good idea to put these two sentences into policy before the main proposal is put to a consensus poll? --] (]) 03:27, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::Hello Bob. That wording is wording which I made up; I was just saying what I would consider to be ideal on that phrase. Everything that you said is good points & thoughts. I'm kind of focused on the main proposal and its rationale. I think that the fact that it has emerged from an extensive process and that it is a compromise are important things for making it fly. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:40, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
	== "not truth" ==
	::Thanks for being understanding... My main complaint is your use of "not truth" without the word "verifiability" attached. The intent of the proposal is to return us to the original intent of a very specific phrase: "''Verifiability, not truth''"... not the phrase "not truth" which means something completely different. ] (]) 00:15, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::Still not sure what I think, (I was thinking that those two words most accurately describe the topic of debate) but I decided when in doubt to quickly take it completely out as you suggested while there was still an option to cleanly take it out of that prominent place. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:22, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
	==Anyone reading this, please give your input==
	Anyone reading this, please give your input at an RFC at ]
	Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:23, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
	== ] ==
	Hi North8000. You participated in ], which was snowball closed. A subsection of the discussion has been created. Titled ], it pertains to {{tl|Request close}} and ], which were created after a discussion at ]. I have posed several questions there and am interested in your thoughts. ] (]) 06:06, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the invite. I'd be happy to. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:43, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
	==I nominated the ] article to be the Featured Article of the Day for November 10th ==
	I nominated the ] article to be the Featured Article of the Day for November 10th, the anniversary of her sinking. Of course I'm biased. :-) Interested persons should please comment at ]. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:12, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
	==Office Hours==
	Hey {{PAGENAME}}! I'm just dropping you a message because you've commented on (or expressed an interest in) the ] in the past. If you don't have any interest in it any more, ignore the rest of this message :).
	If you ''do'' still have an interest or an opinion, good or bad, we're holding an ] session tomorrow at 19:00 GMT/UTC in #wikimedia-office to discuss completely changing the system. In attendance will be myself, ] and ]. All perspectives, opinions and comments are welcome :).
	I appreciate that not everyone can make it to that session - it's in work hours for most of North and South America, for example - so if you're interested in having another session at a more America-friendly time of day, leave me a message on my talkpage. I hope to see you there :). Regards, ] (]) 14:30, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the invitation. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:08, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
	::No problem. Sorry not to see you at the session; the logs are ]. In the meantime, the Foundation has started developing a new version of the tool which dispenses with the idea of "ratings", amongst other things. Take a look at ] and drop any comments, criticisms or suggestions you have on the talkpage - I'd be very grateful to hear your opinions. ] (]) 21:35, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
	:::Thanks! I will do that. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:04, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
	::::Awesome! Hope to see you soon :). ] (]) 22:08, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
	:We've started a discussion ] on access issues for some of the features - I'd love to hear your thoughts :). ] (]) 19:43, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
	::Happy to. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:54, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
	*Thanks, dude! :). Oh - and the next Office Hours session will be held on Thursday at 19:00 UTC in #wikimedia-office. Give me a poke if you can't make it but want me to send you the logs when they're released - we'll be holding sessions timed for East Coast editors and Australasian/Asian editors next week. ] (]) 22:49, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
	:Hey; once again, office hours for the ]! These will be held at this evening; logs from the last session can be found ]. Hope to see you there :). Do drop me a note if you're not familiar with IRC and would like the cliff's notes, or if you can't attend but would like the logs/have some questions for me to pass on to the devs :). ] (]) 05:28, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
	Hello Okeyes,
	Thanks for the heads up. Answering your one question, I only vaguely know what IRC is about and have no idea how to use it or how it works. I have a pretty hard time adding involvement on anything that is on a schedule. Misplaced Pages works for me because I can work on it whenever I get random moments. Thanks again.
	Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:48, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
	== Political Discrimination. ==
	I have added more information on the discrimination page about political discrimination. I still think we need to cover liberals but you can probably think of quite a few more political ideologies which have been oppressed. I added information about Anti-Zionism/Anti-Israeli actions in the United States as well as Anti-Communism and Anti-Freemasonry in the United States and during the Holocaust in Europe. Please help me make this a worthwhile section.-] (]) 08:22, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
	:I'd be happy to help in any way that I can. Sincerely. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:13, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
	==Occupy Ashland article==
	Since you voted on the first AfD for ], just a note that it's up for a '''second deletion nomination ]'''. <small><font face="arial"><strong>]</strong><sup>]</sup></font></small> 14:22, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the heads up. I'll have a look. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:05, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
	==Can you help?==
	My name is Austin Gaines and I am a freshman at Clemson University, making a page about a lake in my state. I have seen that you have made my edits to the Lake Superior page, and was wondering if you could give me some suggestions as to what I could add to my page.
	Thanks. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 18:50, 7 November 2011 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:I posted the following on their talk page. I saw them at both Lake Superior and my talk page. I answered at Lake Superior and at my talk page. BTW, the practice is to put new posts on the bottom of talk pages. I moved your Lake Superior one to the bottom and will move the one on my talk page to the bottom. Otherwise nobody will see them. So, stay tuned and I'll have an answer on my talk page (at the bottom) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:09, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
	::The best place to start is to find some sources (ideally secondary sources) that cover it and start putting in important material based on those sources. Size, depth, geology, history, flora and fauna, and current uses are a few good ones for most lakes. Let me know if I can help further. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:34, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
	== Main page appearance: SS Edmund Fitzgerald ==
	This is a note to let the main editors of ] know that the article will be appearing as ] on November 10, 2011. You can view the TFA blurb at ]. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director {{user|Raul654}} or his delegate {{user|Dabomb87}}, or start a discussion at ]. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at ]. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:
	<blockquote>
	<div style="float:left;margin:0.5em 0.9em 0.4em 0;">]</div>
	The ''']''' was a {{convert|729|ft|adj=on}} ] that made headlines after sinking in ] in a massive storm on November&nbsp;10, 1975 with near hurricane-force winds and {{convert|35|ft|adj=on}} waves. The ''Fitzgerald'' suddenly sank approximately {{convert|17|mi}} from the entrance to ], at a depth of {{convert|530|ft}}. Her crew of 29 perished without sending any distress signals, and no bodies were recovered; she is the largest boat to have sunk in the Great Lakes. The ''Fitzgerald'' carried ] from mines near ], to iron works in ], ] and other ports. Her size, record-breaking performance, and "dee jay captain" endeared the ''Fitzgerald'' to boat watchers. Many theories, books, studies and expeditions have examined the cause of the sinking. Her sinking is one of the most well-known disasters in the history of Great Lakes shipping and is the subject of ]'s 1976 hit song, "]". (])
	</blockquote>
	] (]) 00:02, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
	:Cool. A year ago it wasn't GA yet and WPWatchdog and I decided to shoot for GA, FA and then getting up as today's feature article 11/10/11, anniversary of the sinking. With the immense help of WPWatchdog and many others along the way we did it. Cool! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:07, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
	::As a FAC editor who may have frustrated you, congrats. ] (]) 04:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::Thanks! And you never frustrated us. At each stage we wanted nothing less than a thorough, tough review to make the article better. And your expertise, which is immense, doubly so in the areas of sourcing and referencing, was very much appreciated. Thank you for that and your efforts. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:26, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	::::Thank you so much for carrying it over the goal line. You were a great partner!--] (]) 14:27, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	::::::Well, WPwatchdog, we did it! What an immense amount of excellent work you did on this, and what a pleasure you have been to work with on this! Sincerely,<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:53, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	I thought the report at ERRORS was a bit of a kerfuffle, but when dealing with the TFA ERRORS page, the best approach is usually the one taken by Nikkimaria :) ] (]) 16:39, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the note. Not sure what you meant because I did not see any post by Nikkimaria there. When I saw it it struck me that that extra info should pretty simply clear it up. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:06, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	:: Nikkimaria didn't post there-- she just removed the sentence from the TFA blurb, so that ended that-- it didn't seem to be going anywhere, and the objection to a reliable reference to a dee jay struck me as pedantry. Some FAC reviewers (myself included) hate reading ship articles that are numbers, numbers, and more numbers that never tell the story of the ship-- I thought the "dee jay captain" provided nice relief from all the stats we typically see in ship articles, but if the folks who populate the ERROR page disagree, it's best not to get into a tussle, which is why I think Nikkimaria's action was wise. ] (]) 17:24, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::I'm cool with it. On the topic, the person who thought it was wrong missed something pretty obvious....the source was saying what people were calling the captain, not an attempt by the article or even the source to characterize what the captain was doing. But it's no biggee whether or not that is in the blurb. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:48, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::: Yep :) ] (]) 18:28, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	== ] ==
	Hello North8000, regarding , the image did not have a specific ] for that particular article. I have rationale to the image. Per the ] criteria 10c, a fair use rationale is needed for ''every'' instance where the unfree image is used. Thank you, ] ] 15:50, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks. I thought that that was a single image, so when I clicked on "it" and saw the fair use rationale already there I thought mistakenly "it" was for it. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:01, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
	== RMS Titanic ==
	Is that project still on-going to get the article to FA in time for the centennial? If so, let me know when things are falling into place so I can do some citation cleanup and comments. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;" >''']&nbsp;]'''</span> 22:20, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the reminder and nudge. Both WPWatchdog and I did some work on it. From my end then I started working on reading and absorbing two large technical reports on it and then I kind of slipped into low gear, though I monitor it and the most heavy-duty of the sub-articles. (the time line one, which is really a more detailed account of the collision and sinking) and do some things. I think WPWatchdog (to a dramatic extent we make sort of a good yang and yang team....we did very different things at the Edmund Fitzgerald article) is willing to work on it, but due to those dynamics, if I don't get off my butt on this......... There is also additional complexity of there being a lot more material available than the Fitz article (stories from 1,511 survivors vs. zero from the Fritz, movies, etc.) and many sub articles so there are decisions as to what goes in the top level article and to what depth. But I think that that is all manageable. Me, I'm motivated to get it to be a very high quality, interesting, accurate and informative article.....to go beyond that to wiki-perfection will need other folks on the team. Sincerely,<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:50, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
	::I don't think that we have the team and intensity that we had at the Fitz article. Me, I'm motivated to get it to be a very high quality, interesting, accurate and informative article.....to go beyond that to wiki-perfection will need other folks on the team. I think that WPWatchdog, who did an immense amount of work on the Fitz article is willing to help but not quite as revved as on the Fitz article. I floated the idea at the talk page but so far no others have responded. So I plan to work more on the article (more than I have been), and I'm not sure where that leaves your thoughts. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:05, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::Seems to me that subject might be too popular for the article to become stable enough for FA. Every time someone makes a movie that shows space aliens landing somewhere in 1912, there will be a clamoring for the article to reflect this "fact." And then there is the constant drizzle of more mundane what "really" happened type stuff. Even keeping it stable while the FA process runs its course might be problematic. Am I being too pessimistic? ] (]) 16:32, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
	::::I think that THAT aspect would be doable with a core of editors who are focused / committed to that and who who stick around. 2-4 people would do it. I think that the bigger challenge is getting a team to do all of the needed work. I think that me and Imzadi1979 would do similar things that we did at the Fitz article. What we're missing is person/persons to do the immense amount of researching, sourcing and detailed work as WPwatchdog did at the Fitz article. My impression is that they may be willing to do some here but not to do a repeat of that Herculean job they did on the Fitz article. Long story short, I think we'd need 1-2 additional people willing to really jump in deep on this. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:28, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
	== Comment on talk:Verifiability ==
	You asked whether a post I made was a comment or a support 'vote'. It is not numbered, is tabbed, does not start with or contain the word 'support' and clearly relates to the preceding comment. Am I missing something? I cannot see any particular technique other than those I used to indicate a comment rather than a 'vote'. ] (]) 11:04, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
	:The way to do that would be to change the indent on your first comment from ":" to "#:", the indent on the person who responded to you from "::" to "#::", and the indent on your second comment from ":::" to "#:::". This shows them to be all underneath the previous comment as you intended. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:30, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
	== Thanks ==
	Thank you for your thoughtful post on the NPOV talk page. I need some time to think about all of that.--] (]) 02:09, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks, I'm flattered. I've been working on it; it still needs to have its writing tightened up (repetitions etc) and to have the the proposals made more specific, but with your question it seemed like a good time to put it in there anyway. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:40, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
	== Homophobia ==
	I actually partially agree with you in certain aspects. Homophobia is a term that I don't think should be used for many reasons. A)uneducated people don't realize that phobia can mean discrimination. B) it is limited to homosexual people often times ignoring bisexual, asexual, pansexual, polysexual people. C)it should be more consistent with words like racism and sexism. For these reasons I more appropriately use the term Sexualism. Technically sexualism would apply to heterosexual people as well.
	On another one of your comments. Reverse discrimination of homophobia would not be againist those who oppose homosexuality and the normalization of it. It would be those who do to heterosexuals the discriminatory measures that they do to homosexuals. Ex. Beating up a heterosexual couple or not allowing them in your store because they are heterosexual. This is known as heterophobia and is also covered under the term Sexualism. -] (]) 02:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
	:Agree with you on all counts, except reverse discrimination can take forms outside of what you describe. For example,I remember a news story.... of all of the dozens of insulting rant notes pinned to a bulletin board at a Wisconsin University, only the one where the rant was anti-gay got the poster charged with anything for doing so, and with a ''felony'' to boot. But on your last paragraph, I never used it in that fashion. I just made that comment to the effect that in the USA, legal anti-discrimination measures inevitably are reverse discrimination measures. What this also means is the the US tends to flip from discrimination directly to reverse discrimination, skipping the middle ground. I gave this as "back-story" info, but causing concerns about this actually happening or resentment to it having happened is counterproductive to the original cause, and this is a common phenomena. As indicated I'm bowing out at the article due to my self-imposed wiki-sanity policy, but wishing you and others there the best. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:39, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
	::You are misusing the word reverse discrimination no offense. Reverse discrimination is discrimination towards a majority group not towards a group which opposes a minority. Reverse discrimination would include anything that discriminates againist Whites, males, heterosexuals, cisgender people etc. It has nothing do with whether or not say a heterosexual who dosn't agree with homosexuality. In order for it to be reverse discrimination for example a heterosexual would need to be attacked exclusively FOR being or being percieved as being heterosexual whether they believe homosexuality is okay or not. Now don't get me wrong reverse discrimination towards heterosexuals does exist. About 1/50 hate crimes recorded by the FBI in the United States are towards heterosexuals. But you must use the word properly. -] (]) 13:07, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::I don't agree, but it is a minor point. Certainly there are many definitions/usages for reverse discrimination. And certainly you would acknowledge that many people would call preferential treatment (e.g. affirmative action, "hate crime" legislation) for one minority attribute reverse discrimination. ? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:08, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
	::::Actually affirmative action discriminates againist everyone not just the majority. It limits the amount of people of a certain race or gender and in some cases other things to being allowed in a certain organization. I actually for the most part don't agree with affrimative action however unless there is clear evidence that certain groups are not being represented. On hate crime legislation this actually dosn't discriminate againist anyone. Hate Crime stops crimes based on say religion. Not just hate crimes againist vulnerable groups such as Jews. For example if a Jew attacked and killed a Protestant while yelling epitaphs that are clearly anti-protestant. Or say a gay man beat a heterosexual while yelling the word breeder these would be prosecuted as hate crimes. And just so you know a heterosexual attacking a homosexual dosn't equal a hate crime unless there is clear evidence that the victims sexual orientation played a part in the process of the person being picked to be assaulted. On your other note look up the word reverse discrimination. It is'nt discrimination to say that a KKK member can't attend a festival for Jews, Arabs or People of Color. It is to not allow a White person with no evidence of racial hostility to do the same thing. On another note there has been instances where heterosexual people have been restricted from entering into gay bars. That is clearly reverse discrimination.-] (]) 14:39, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::::The story I spoke of was where someone got charged with a felony (hate crime) for putting a general anti-gay rant on paper to a bulletin board in a dorm hallway. As I remember it was University of Wisconsin in Madison a few/several years ago.<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:58, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
	::::::You can certainly argue that event was many things. Unfortunately discrimination is not one of them. He was prosecuted for what he said. Even the first amendment dosn't protect this. The first amendment gives people the right to say anything however it does not protect them from the reprecussions of what they say.-] (]) 11:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::Agree, but I had brought it up in the context of an anti-discriminaiton measure becoming many would consider to be reverse discrimination. Charged with a felony for pinning a note to a bulletin board, whereas the consequences would be less or non-existent if his note wasn't against a specially protected class.<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:22, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
	::::::::Again you are confusing reverse discrimination which is discrimination against a majority group in this case heterosexuals with anti-discrimination which are completely different things. In order for this to be reverse discrimination they would have had to target the heterosexual because that he/she was heterosexual. Not because of their opinions on homosexuals. Anti-discrimination is NOT always discrimination unless it specifically attacks the majority group.-] (]) 12:35, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::You are giving a particular definition of "reverse discrimination"; my whole point is that others have different definitions. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:40, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
	::::::::::Your definition is not proper however I could personally define biology as being "the state of walking on the moon." But that dosn't mean that it is right. In order to make such claims on the part of reverse discrimination you need sources and you need to show these sources are properly using the word.-] (]) 12:43, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::::You are basically saying that preferential treatment of one class is never legitimately called reverse discrimination. I can't believe that you actually think that, but if you do, we simply disagree. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
	:::::::::::::I am sorry that thats what you got out of the argument. That is not what I said. Giving preferential treatment to one class at the expense of the majority class and ONLY at the expense of the majority class can be considered reverse discrimination. Giving preferential treatment that does make people who are against the class angry does not however. There is a difference between being a heterosexual and being a sexualist. Being discriminative towards a heterosexual is possible and considered reverse discrimination. Being against sexualists is not. That is anti-discrimination.
	{{outdent}}My assertion is that the ''law'' in that example is an example of reverse discrimination, and that many would consider it to be reverse discrimination. I think that you disagree with both of those statements, so I think that we simply disagree in that area. Anything further on this particular item would probably be going in circles, but it's always ''truly'' a pleasure to talk to you, even when we disagree. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
	Hello North, I have dabbled on Wiki off and on for years, but still somewhat of a newbie editor. So I'm not quite what I think about what was done to the recent Talk discussion that was closed/hatted by other editors. I understand that my veering into general discussion was a violation of Wiki guidelines, but I wasn't sure it required such a drastic response. While I'm mostly inclined to drop the matter, I wondered what you thought of how that situation was handled. Regards, --] (]) 09:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
	:That article is still a POV mess. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:49, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
	== SIP ==
	Just to reiterate, it would be a significant gift to the field if WP had an umbrella article on this fascinating topic. :-) It's the kind of concept/phenomenon where there's value in seeing different applications: could even prompt scientists and engineers to apply it to their own area, eventually. ] ] 03:25, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the note and you are probably right,. But despite all of the technical sounding stuff in there, right now the article really doesn't cover specifically what it is. Missing defining the core concepts, and is even missing a definition of specifically what SIP is. (e.g. to say what is covered by the scope of that term, if such a def exists) And this is from a very technical and EE person who has read the article at least 15 times. If I could ever get my hands on those technical papers I think I could improve it and clarify the situation. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:49, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
	::I'll try after I'm out of work jail (14 Dec ... I'm wrecked at the moment). But I was talking more of an article that included selected parts of the welding SIP thing as subsection(s). You mentioned US Navy developments in a quite different area, plus possibly other analogous developments. They probably go under different technical names on google. One could start with a stubby article that at least provides short sections on several of these sig. image applications. I don't know the field well enough to contribute on such a fundamental level, though. What I'm saying is that the welding SIP article could be selectively merged into a new, broad-scope one. ] ] 09:13, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
	::: Not sure what to say. I don't disagree, and would be happy to help, but the questions in my previous post still exist. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:37, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
	::::I did a lot of searching. It appears pretty clear that the SIP term was invented by that individual / company and refers to their specific product. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:01, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
	==Invitation==
	{{WikiProject Conservatism invite|Signature=&ndash; ] <sup>(])</sup> 10:39, 9 December 2011 (UTC)}}
	Thanks, I'm flattered. As discussed, I'm interested in / work articles on libertarianism, which often conflicts with the stereotype of conservatism, but an expanding non-stereotypical tent can include the areas of those conflicts. I signed up. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:42, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
	==Apologies==
	] showed me that these user pages are not actual Misplaced Pages articles. Apologies for the confusion. ] (]) 21:52, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Cool. It just looked like a lot of semi-random comments in a lot of places in short period of time and I got concerned about the possibility of harm being done. Let me know if I can be of help or answer any questions in any other areas.<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:55, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
	::Can you do something so the top of these user page thingies say they aren't Misplaced Pages articles? It was very confusing.~~ <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 22:00, 9 December 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:::You can tell by the page title. Whenever the title starts with "User" it's a user page. The two main prefixes are "User:" and "User talk:" Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:04, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
	:::Couple more notes: You might want to get yourself a user name. And put (exactly) 4 tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) after your post to sign it. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:11, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
	==] article ==
	Brain stem death. North8000 - You showed kind interest and willingness to help the technically inept when I was last concerned with this entry several months ago. I have now revisited it and feel that I have, perhaps, a duty (as one involved from the first) to try to get it into uncontentious historically and scientifically accurate form. The November revision offers a Wiki-approved format to work on but my editing will inevitably upset the referencing and links. Would you be prepared to put them right once we've got the para contents in order?] (]) 14:25, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks. I'm not sure specifically what you are asking or proposing, but I'd be happy to help. Let me know the specifics. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:06, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
	I'm on the way with a revision which will, I hope, be seen as simplifying this unfortunately confused topic. I have cut out some of the references and that requires complete re-listing, of course. As I haven't mastered the system used on this site to cite them and link to them, it's for that I'll particularly need help. ] (]) 16:30, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Happy to help. Your saying "I have cut out some of the references and that requires complete re-listing, of course." sounds like a misunderstanding of how they work. Happy to help there as well. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
	I have now posted my revision in a form which will, I hope, meet Wiki standards of factual statement including mention of criticism without partiality. Since it is the concept of "brain stem death" - as diagnosed clinically - as human death which is the matter of general interest and the likely reason for enquiry, and that is a peculiarly British concept, I have cut out the confusing references to brain death concepts and protocols - in the genesis of which the diagnosis of the vitally important brain stem death element was, of course, necessarily involved. The unscientific Minnesota study - of 25 "moribund" patients, only 9 of whom had EEGs - had much improper influence on the reductionist thought processes of some neurologists some 40 years ago but should not be quoted these days. I have also cut out the US President's Bioethics Council's refusal to accept "the UK standard" in the hope of avoiding confusion with "brain death" (in its various forms the worldwide standard for death diagnosis on neurological grounds).
	Maybe you'll think the title should be more restrictive, as someone suggested a while back, but "Brain stem death in the UK" wouldn't be quite right as the UK lead has been followed by others, particularly its erstwhile colonies. I would therefore prefer to leave the title as is.
	I have resisted adding a very recent reference to Shah, Truog & Miller's very frank admission (in the current J Med Ethics) that all "brain death" and other invented redefinitions of death (for transplant purposes) are but legal fictions but it could be added as a minor edit at a later date if thought appropriate. It's interesting that two of the authors are from the NIH and Truog from Harvard (where the "brain death" notion was first mooted in 1968).
	May I leave you to deal with the references which are now in the simple style preferred by most journals on submission? Many thanks, David ] (]) 16:35, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Happy to. My initial work will be with using the Misplaced Pages tools for them, not in rewriting the reference format. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:20, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
	::I did it. There were a few loose ends ( three unusued references, three cites to reference numbers that do not exist) which I noted on the talk page. I'm assuming that the latter refer to the former but were just misnumbered, but did not want to edit based on that. Let me know if I can be of further help. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:41, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
	Thank you very much - and apologies for missing the renumbering of the last three references. I have now corrected that on the site, taking the opportunity to remove a redundant sentence about apnoea testing generally. I wonder if you think the rather complicated anatomical drawing of the brain stem (etc) should be restored. A simpler, more diagrammatic, picture showing how small the brain stem is would, I think, be more helpful to the lay enquirer but the one we took from the US President's White Paper was thought to be copyright sensitive. Again many thanks for your help - so much appreciated - David] (]) 12:09, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
	:I incorporated those last ones.
	:Not sure about the merits of particular diagrams, but using any image or diagram that has copyright questions is very difficult in Misplaced Pages, so I would avoid that. Mind you this is done not to protect the creators of the works, but to force the creators to release them for unlimited use (including commercial) by others. This is done by refusal to recognize any conditional permission, so it does no good to get permission from the creator of the work. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:43, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
	:If you like an opinion on the article, it is immensely better. One critique is that it still needs the UK context added to statements in several places. There are several statements made where something that is true only for the UK is stated as if it were universal. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:47, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
	Thanks for that North8000. Opinion much appreciated. I will "let it settle" for a while and then have another look to see if I can clarify the specific UK application. Maybe, if I can get that aspect right, we can look forward to the removal of those unsightly and unsettling headers .....] (]) 15:36, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
	:I think that the "Wikify" tag can go now and I'll try removing it.<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:38, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
	Thanks for that. I hope the "undue bias" tag can go too ere long. The "globalize" tag may be more of a problem as the "brain stem death IS death" idea is, as we've noted, essentially and peculiarly, British and Commonwealth. I am seeking expert advice about its wider usage, particularly for legal purposes. ] (]) 14:43, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
	If the significant use of the term were limited to the British Commonwealth, and you said something to that effect, or at least state that context for the info, I think that you're OK. 16:59, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Would you like me to put questions in superscript on IMHO problematic sentences in order to tag them for fixing by you. For example, you have a paragraph where you just say "the Conference" and I would add a question to make it say: the Conference<sup>What conference?</sup>. These would help towards removing those other two tags. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:25, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	Yes please. That would be very helpful. "The Conference" referred to is the Conference of Medical Royal Colleges and their Faculties in the UK, references 3 and 4, so perhaps just adding the reference number would suffice. I'm awaiting formal confirmation that "brain stem death" is recognized as death only in the UK and its former colonies/Commonwealth. When I have it, a short addition to the first section should be enough to make it clear that what follows is specific in that sense - and it would probably be a good idea to restore the US President's Bioethics Council's White Paper reference as evidence that "brain stem death" is not accepted as death in the USA (where whole brain death is required, as in most of the world). That would, of course, require re-numbering of the subsequent references (+1). Would that be a big problem?
	Thanks for your active criticism and real help. It will be good to get this article right soon if we can. ] (]) 16:23, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Here goes. The material should be explained in the article without reliance on material linked by footnotes. Answering your last question, it's not a problem; under the system that it is now in it gets handled automatically. So, here goes!<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:36, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	::Done. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:56, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	I have made some changes in light of your helpful comments North8000 and look forward to hearing what you think of my efforts to deal with them. I thought of putting in a specific statement, in the preamble, to the effect that the article is essentially about the UK concept and practice but deleted it as redundant when I saw how that is emphasized throughout the piece. It's the equation of "brain stem death" - as diagnosed by the official Code - that matters, isn't it? The legal position is, even now, unclear in the UK since it's a matter of case law here and there has never been an established precedent in the context of organ procurement. I still await the advice of my lawyer friends about its status elsewhere in the world - particularly Commonwealth countries - and may be able to "firm up" the legal side of the matter at a later date. Meanwhile I think it best to simply let it be known that it's "established practice" (in the UK) without risking criticism of misunderstanding the true legal position, whatever that may be.
	Perhaps the final mention of the UK Code of Practice needs yet another reference in the closing paragraph, though I guess readers will be tired of going back to that at that stage.
	Happy New Year - and thanks again - ] (]) 13:43, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Nice work. With all of the changes in the article, culminated by your recent changes in response to my notes, I think that the POV tag can go and I'll try taking it off. Regarding the last top level tag, "globalization" would be an issue if the concept is significant elsewhere but not covered in the article. You don't have to "prove a negative" in order for that tag to go, but some due diligence and exploration owuld be good for that purpose and also a good idea for for making a good article. Sincerley, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:52, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
	I have now had the expert legal advice I was awaiting and find that, contrary to what we have been told for many years, the concept of brain stem death as a sufficient basis for declaring death for legal (usually transplant) purposes is not accepted throughout the Commonwealth countries, most of which hold to the concept of whole brain death (however they diagnose it). I have therefore tweaked the preamble minimally in the hope of making it clear that the reductionist concept is peculiar to the UK and a couple of its erstwhile colonies. Do you think that will suffice for removal of the remaining tag or do you think I should add a sentence saying that what follows refers specifically to the UK use of the concept and its diagnostic criteria for the diagnosis and certification of death itself (particularly for orgnan procurement purposes)? That seems a bit cumbersome to me, especially as we keep reminding readers of the special UK use all the way through but I will value your opinion. As regards the proper use (for prognostic purposes) of the syndrome's diagnosis in general - by whatever criteria clinicians may use according to their judgment and local or national hospital standards - I don't think we can or should say anything as there's no evidence of that use to go on. Happy New Year! ] (]) 14:33, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
	:A happy new year to you too! In order to try to provide the best possible answer, I have two questions for you:
	:#Is it also a standard for death in India and Trinidad & Tobago as noted in the article?
	:#Setting aside the "Legal standard for death" topic, is brain stem death significantly a technical / medical topic elsewhere? To let you know where I'm going with this, if it were to be a significant technical / medical topic elsewhere in the world (evene if nto a legal standard for death) and the article only covered brain stem death with respect to places where it is a legal standard, then it would have a globalization or scope-narrowness problem, because it completely excluded coverage of those other significant areas. Conversely, if it is really only significantly a topic in the places where it ''is'' a legal standard, then coverage of those constitutes full coverage of the topic and then IMHO it wouldn't have a globalization/scope problem.
	:Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:02, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
	1. Yes - it is a legal standard for death in India and Trinidad & Tobago.
	2. Setting aside the de facto and basic science aspects - particularly the ongoing debate about the ability of the various tests to diagnose true and total death of the brain stem (however defined) - the only real significance of formally diagnosed "brain stem death", as diagnosed by the procedure laid down in the UK Code of Practice, is its use as a legal standard for death certification.
	Comment and clarification much appreciated. ] (]) 14:48, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
	::I think that you answered my main open question. I just want to double check my understanding. So, "Brain stem death" is a term that is really only used with respect to being a legal definition of death. And so it is not a general scientific or medical topic outside of those countries that we just discussed? Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:29, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
	That is my understanding North8000. ] (]) 12:49, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
	:Cool. I think that it's probably time to take the globalization tag off. I'll expound on this more at the article talk page. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:31, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
	Thank you North8000 - and congratulations on the splendid links - for I expect it was you who dealt with them. They should prove very helpful to the typical lay enquirer. ] (]) 13:32, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
	:Nice work! I can't take credit for any links but hopefully helped a little. Sincerely. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:41, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
	I'm a bit worried North8000. When I went to Wiki this afternoon - before the UK protest shutdown - and keyed in "Brain stem death" I got a page saying there is no such site. The same thing happened on two repeat attempts - and when I tried to 'Log In' I got a page saying there is no contributor named DavidWEvansMD (same response to repeated attempts). What is going on? Have I and the site been removed by "the Thought Police" perhaps?! If so, I suppose there is nothing I can do about it and must accept the way things are. But perhaps I could e-mail you, as a friend, for information. Would you allow me to have your e-mail address for discrete use please? Mine is dwevansmd@ntlworld.com ] (]) 15:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
	Very strange .....! All seems to be well again now, some 10 minutes later. The site comes up promptly, and via Google, and I logged in as normal to add this. Some entirely innocent glitch, maybe. Apologies for worrying you too - if I did. But I'd still like to have your e-mail address, in case of future difficulty, if you wouldn't mind. ] (]) 15:47, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
	:It was probably just temporarily broken. Sure! on the email address. I sent you an email with it. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:40, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
	:: I've just revisited this topic and lo and behold, Dr Evans has reverted it into a polemic in which he himself is the most referenced author, a presentation quite out of keeping with Misplaced Pages guidelines. Admittedly some effort has been made to disguise the distortion. However, any approach which seeks to treat this topic as a British legal matter rather than as an international medical issue remains gravely misleading.
	::The article must give due emphasis to the fact that most countries, including the US, do not impose any mandatory confirmatory tests of whole brain function, but only demand evidence that the brain-stem is dead.
	:: Due emphasis means not only stating that this is so but also explaining why, and placing the evolution of the British criteria in their full historical context - both influenced by and influencing work done elsewhere.
	::So let's hope we can agree a way of bringing this article back up to the standards of international relevance Misplaced Pages requires and which the subject so clearly warrants. ] (]) 17:17, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
	:::If you have sourced material, please add it. And if there are specific statements that you think are wrong, polemical, etc., bring them up on the article talk page. But if you are saying the article is too narrow, I would think that the main focus should be adding sourced material on whatever areas you feel are missing or uncovered. You are saying a lot of things about Dr. Evans's work on the article which are inaccurate, insulting and uncivil, and missed wp:agf by about 2 miles. Like baselessly inventing bad faith. Let's skip the drama and insults and instead build the article. I'll answer this in more detail at the article talk page. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:35, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
	Could you help please North8000? I have been trying to update Reference 11, which is way out of date, but cannot seem to get into the list to edit it.
	It should read : Coimbra CG. Are 'brain dead' (or 'brain stem dead') patients neurologically recoverable? In Finis Vitae - 'brain death' is not true death. Eds. De Mattei R, Byrne PA. Life Guardian Foundation, Oregon, Ohio, 2009, pp. 313-378. ] (]) 12:34, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
	:Happy to. I did it. Let me know if it looks OK. (BTW, that material is in the text where the reference is cited.) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:41, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
	Thank you very much. That's fine. ] (]) 22:04, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
	:Much work later, the article ended up well. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:50, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
	== ANI V ==
	WRT "I saw the initial immediate reversion as kneejerk and wanted to at least get the possibility considered as a possible quick solution"
	I totally, TOTALLY understand. Absolutely do.
	Trouble is... ''everyone'' thinks "It was one revert of a revert" - and when 10 people do, it's a problem :-)
	Take care, <small><span style="border:1px solid;background:#00008B">]]</span></small> 17:08, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Thanks! This seemed like a special case due to those factors, but you are of course right. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
	== RMS Titanic ==
	Hi there, I understand that at the time Ireland was part of the UK, but it is still a bit misleading. A person who might not know much about this topic they could easily assume that Ireland is still in the UK. Today it is very common for people to refer to Ireland as the Republic of Ireland.
	The following is only a suggestion;
	"The largest passenger steamship in the world at the time, the Olympic-class RMS Titanic was owned by the White Star Line. It was constructed at the Harland and Wolff shipyard, which is located in Belfast, Northern Ireland, UK"
	I know that it wasn't built in Northern Ireland but the shipyard is still active and it is in Northern Ireland
	] (]) 00:35, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Is there some version that is accurate both then and now that nobody is going to be angry with? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:01, 16 December 2011 (UTC)
	== Thank You ==
	]<!-- Template:WikiThanks --> Thank you for getting my back. --] (]) 16:03, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
	:::My pleasure, it was well deserved. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
	== You screwed up the move to ] ==
	By removing the redirect at ], your single edit to the page prevented it from being a ]. Now you have to ask an admin to do it at ]. Please do so, and read ]. ] (]) 14:24, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	::No need, now. I tagged the redirect for speedy deletion to make way for the move as noted as a possibility at ]. ] (]) 14:39, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	:::Cool/thanks. I didn't know that that would prevent a move. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:11, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	::::Do you want to do the move? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	{{outdent}}Done. I'll let you update the link at ] since when I tried to change the link there to point to the redirect which is now the article title. ] (]) 16:37, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	:Cool. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:44, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
	== inre ] ==
	I invite you to revisit he article ]. Thanks, ''']''' '']'' 04:22, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
	:Will do. Sincerely <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
	::Changed mine to "keep" Much improved, including sources establishing wp:notability. Nice work! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
	:::Thanks much. ''']''' '']'' 19:41, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
	== IEEE 1394 NPOV ==
	I don't understand why you removed {{t|POV}} from ]. The logo is not the issue. Please have a look at discussion pages before removing the heavier banners. Specifically read ]. --] (]) 20:45, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
	:It was my understanding that the issue was the proprietary and non-representative logo. So, as my edit summary said: I "Remove(d) logo and POV tag as possible resolution. Just trying to help; feel free to revert if you do not agree." What you are pointing me to now is a February 2011 section (which had more recent(August) posts) many many sections back. I did not realize that there was any reason to look that far back (I had looked back all the way until I saw a Feb 2011 date, a post which was newer than the one that you pointed me to.) Further, the top level tag was put on in August 2011 but what you are basically telling me is that the comment on why the tag was there was NOT in the August 2011 sections, but only as an addition to the Feb 2011 section. Either way this falls under, as I said, "...as possible resolution. Just trying to help; feel free to revert if you do not agree.". <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:36, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
	::I have restored {{t|POV}} due to issues identified in ] but removed the logo as per the ]. --] (]) 15:53, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
	:::If the issues are still there, that's the right thing to do. I ''would'' suggest indicating the reasons in the current talk page area. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:52, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
	==FA RFC==
	{{tb|Moonriddengirl|Closing RfC?}}
	:Cool! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
	== Barnstar ==
	{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"		{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|]|]}}		|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ]
	|rowspan="2" |		|rowspan="2" |
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''		|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" |
			'''The New Page Reviewer's Bronze Award'''
	|-		|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | This barnstar is awarded to everyone who - whatever their opinion - contributed to the discussion about Misplaced Pages and SOPA. Thank you for being a part of the discussion. Presented by the Wikimedia Foundation.		|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray; width:100%;" | For over '''1,000''' article reviews during 2022. Well done! Keep up the good work! -] (]) 03:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
	|}		|}
			{{Ping|MPGuy2824}} Thanks! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
	==Recent edit at ] article==
			== Happy New Year, North8000! ==
	Hi North8000 It's a well known fact that The Seekers had their farwell concert July 7 1968 at a BBC-TV studio in London.I can't understand why you are misleading people and writing that it was on the 9 July.I tried to correct it but you wrote the 9th again.Please contact Graham Simpson at Musicoast and he will confirm it.He wrote the book about Judith Durhams life and is in close contact with The Seekers. (by user: Proculled)
			<div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em; height:auto; min-height:173px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);" class="plainlinks">
			]]
			{{Paragraph break}}
			{{Center|{{resize|179%|''''']!'''''}}}}
			'''North8000''',<br />Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable ], and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages.
			<br /><span style="color: blue">—</span> ] <sup><span style="font-size:80%">⋠]⋡</span></sup> 22:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)<br /><br />
			</div>
			&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;''{{resize|88%|Send New Year cheer by adding {{tls|Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.}}''
			{{clear}}<!-- From template:Happy New Year fireworks --> <span style="color: blue">—</span> ] <sup><span style="font-size:80%">⋠]⋡</span></sup> 22:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
			:Sending a lot of these is what I was blocked for. :(
	:To explain. It is a common form of vandalism for folks to change numbers etc. in articles, we usually call that "subtle vandalism" Your change, being while not logged in, and with no edit summary raised a concern that that might be the case. So I reverted your change and wrote the following edit summary: "Don't know if this was subtle vandalism or a correction. Please talk to us if it was the latter. Thanks" So we were looking for you to just touch base on the article talk page (or make your edit with an explanation/edit summary) to indicate that it was a sincere edit and put your edit back in. I'll put your edit back in. Also, it looks like you are new to Misplaced Pages, and are knowledgeable on and have sources on the The Seekers. That article could really use somebody like you there. Please stick around and edit the article and let me know if I can help. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:08, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
			:Anyway, Happy New Year North8000. Keep up the great work. <span style="color: blue">—</span> ] <sup><span style="font-size:80%">⋠]⋡</span></sup> 22:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
			{{ping|Moops}} Thanks for the compliment! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
	Hi North.Thanks for changeing the date.Things here should be correct.Yes I'm new here on Misplaced Pages and find it a bit "hard"to understand how things work here.I have some knowledge about The Seekers and have done some work on the Norwegian page about The Seekers.Did some work on the english page as well but others changed it so I thought why bother.But I will see, maybe I will have a go on The Seekers page.They aere still loved by millions around the world and I know many come here to find info about them.Take care,Proculled <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 17:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:Please do. I'll keep on eye on it and help in any way that I can, or let me know if I can help. You know The Seekers far better than I do, but I know Misplaced Pages stuff. BTW, the routine is after you post on a ''talk'' page, put 4 tilde's (<nowiki>"~~~~")</nowiki> after your post and it will automatically sign your user name and date etc. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:58, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
			== Ping ==
			I forgot to ping you at ].
	== Dispute resolution on Libertarianism ==
			So, this is your ping. &nbsp;;)&nbsp; <span class="nowrap">&nbsp;&nbsp; &mdash; '']''&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> 01:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
	Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "]". Thank you.<!--Template:DRN-notice--> --] (]) 14:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
			:{{ping|The Transhumanist}} Thanks! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 03:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
			== Edit warring ==
	:I responded there. As indicated, my main concern is process...you basically trying to force that into the lead against consensus. That article has a brutal past, and over the last year we have gotten the process to be much more civilized/stable/civil and I'm willing to put myself into the breech / take heat to help maintain that, even if it involves somewhat going against my own preferences. (I'm a proprietarian libertarian, but I don't think that proprietarian is even agreed on by libertarians, much less a central tenet.) Secondarily, I think that the consensus had a good basis. Property rights are note even agreed upon by libertarians, much less it being a central tenet of libertarianism. I think that the best solution is to put your material elsewhere in the article and I'd support that. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:46, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
	Well, I think that after a couple years of effort it is much improved and friendly. And we found a few rosetta stones along the way which helped. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:52, 14 October 2012 (UTC)		Since you cannot decipher the diffs, I'll be happy to do step-by-step edits for your edification. The result will be the same. Just stay out until I'm done. ] (]) 04:14, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
			:{{ping|Grorp}} Not that you can make that demand, but it's fine with me. And stop making false accusations of edit warring. Nobody has crossed that line yet but you are much closer to it. It's a highly contentious article with significant warranted concerns about COI edits by Scientology folks. A massive bundle of individually un-revertable edits is a way to remove scrutiny by making it too time consuming (not the BS "cannot decipher" crap) to review/deal with which is not appropriate in this case. And so a more incremental approach is common practice for these cases, not for my "edification" Please unbundle into individually revertible edits with edit summaries, or take it to talk if you disagree with that approach. I don't know the situation with regards to yourself, but if you are simply NPOV working to improve the article, thank you for your efforts. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 04:29, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
			:: If you have no prior knowledge of my editing work in the Misplaced Pages pages of Scientology, then I invite you to look at my edit history (contributions). FYI, tiny-steps-edits are not my style and don't fit with the way my brain works while trying to update out-of-date articles. When I feel there might be blowback on an edit, I usually have more to say than can fit in an edit summary and direct readers to the talk page. The rest of my edits are pretty recognizable and/or non-controversial. By now, I'm pretty sure you've been able to see that the edits I had made in that article were not controversial at all.
	== Religion and Science ==
			:: Most of the Scientology articles were written in the flush of massive public interest around 2008 when Anonymous came on the scene to protest Scientology. Many of the articles have little "digs" that aren't really appropriate for an encyclopedia, and are not necessary for readers to understand the subject. As such, a lot of the 'see also' and 'external links' sections are bloated with redirection to other (usually negative) articles of Scientology which are unrelated to the topic of the page. Citations have aged and need their URLs updated from current websites or copies gotten from online archives. Many articles suffer from "too many cooks" (including enthusiastic additions by critics and careful excisions by Scientologists) and no longer make any sense when you read them; those need straightening out.
	Hello User:North8000. I hope this message finds you doing well. I noticed that you were interested in lectures that discuss the reconciliation of science and religion, as you mentioned ]. You may find helpful. Cheers, ]<sup>]</sup> 03:14, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:40, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
	::You're welcome! In regards to your original comment there, I made to balance out the information already present. What do you think? I look forward to your response. Respectfully, ]<sup>]</sup> 04:15, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
			:: The article ] has been on my list of things to work on, but ] took me there and one thing led to another. I hope my transfigured incrementals makes sense to you. Don't, however, expect incrementals from me as a custom. It is my hope that you will recognize the style and worth of my edits and see my good faith efforts to improve the encyclopedia and be willing to try to decipher atypical diffs rather than request exhaustive explanations. ] (]) 05:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
	The article continues to have a substantial structural FLAW which leads to POV problems. But I was convinced that the net benefit of a fix is lower than I perceived and decided to not pursue it further. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:55, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|Grorp}}} Thanks for the ping, the explanation and your work. My points remain the same and so I won't repeat them. IMO my comments regarding large bundles of edits on controversial article might be useful to you. It ended up well including your most recent set of edits and so again, thanks for your work. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 22:12, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	== Hey ==
	Hi North. I hope you're ok with my close here ]. Best.] ] 12:25, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
	:Cool. Good close, a bit different than my recommendation, good close. I didn't have a stake in it, I was just trying to help by reviewing some of those. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:31, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
	::Thanks. See you around.] ] 12:59, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 13:30, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
	== Apology ==
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
	I'm genuinely sorry if it sounded like I was scolding you. That wasn't my intention in the slightest. My pointedness was simply to draw attention that our discussions need to progress, to funnel toward some kind of a defensible resolution rather than endlessly repeating itself. This is an article about a controversial topic so its talk pages attract people who like to troll and others who like to soapbox about ID (both/all sides far too eager to do this), but that's not the purpose of the page. The purpose is to nail down content for the mainspace, and in any content dispute it's the entry level requirement, the bare minimum, that sourced content be the focus to settle it. If it's sourced, it qualifies for discussion. If it isn't sourced, remove it from the article until it is.
	That's all I intended from my comment. When "we need to do this's" are neatly spelled out, and each one of these "this's" are obviously non-issues either because they *are* already addressed in the article or that the reasons they *aren't* addressed were just explained mere hours before, I'll say as much because there is no value in any of us wasting time in these wild goose chases over imaginary "problems". Yeah, so I may have sounded sharp toned against you and I'm sorry. That wasn't my intention. My answers were maybe too focused on my own take of how the discussions there go awry, but they were never meant to be against you. ] (]) 07:41, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks and, of course, accepted. I didn't take it as directed at me specifically; my offer to leave the article was more an indication that I was only there to try to help. But to explain my notes there, one strength that I think I have is to see the structure of material/statements and the mechanics on how it affects the overall course of events. When I look at that article I see something that is more promising (more easily remedied) that the usual eternal POV war that most wp:articles on controversial topics are doomed to due to some weaknesses in wp policies / guidelines. In this article that is a fundamental lack of clarity in the area of the main question that I posed. Also that the answer to that question might not be in-dispute. And so getting the answer agreed-upon might be both a realistic possibility and a good foundation for resolving some long-running issues. Sincerely <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:53, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
			== Always precious ==
	==User:Racepacket==
			]
	By consensus of the Arbitration Committee, the request for arbitration enforcement in which you participated has been moved ]. The hearing will take place at the new location, &nbsp;] <sup>]</sup> 14:36, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
			Ten years ago, ] were found precious. That's what you are, always. --] (]) 07:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the heads up. My comments are limited to some narrower areas but might be useful. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:55, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
			:{{ping|Gerda Arendt}} Thanks! I try. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 00:49, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	== appreciate the keep on ] plus need help ==
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 08:30, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
	Thanks for the keep on ] ], if u want it would be awesome if u comment on ], and ] for they are both at stake which took me a while to create friend to the end at worlds end The end hopefully a to be continued for these articles.] (]) 04:47, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
			== Why did you delete my comment... ==
	Sorry I didn't log out of my brothers account I forgot because I asked him to comment on my articles about to be deleted.] (]) 05:55, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
			you deleted a comment I made during a thread on Trickle-down economics at NPOVN. Can you please tell me what was inappropriate about my comment? Thanks! --]] 19:55, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
	:Happy to. A good template for something I've been thinking Misplaced Pages is missing....navigation type list articles. Where categories don't do the job, and the material isn't suitable for a disambig article. IMHO the perfect one would have a nav sentence or phrase by each, but this is good too. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:44, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
			:{{ping|User:Jayron32}} I wanted to give you a quick response. Going into a meeting in 10 minutes and may not be able to fix until about 2 hours from now. It was my screw-up and I don't know how I made that error. Please accept my apologies. I'll fix or else feel free to beat me to it. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:02, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
	== ] revert==
			== Trickle-Down NPOV topic ==
	Hi, this isn't relevant because there's no sign that it's notable enough to be included in this entry. Misplaced Pages isn't a newspaper. ] (]) 18:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
	::Looking further into it, there are even more problems. See my latest edit summary in the entry for more. ] (]) 18:56, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
	:::Well to me that looks like discrimination on the discrimination page. The cite gave the title, date and location of the article. Chicago Tribune, Feb 5th.. Did you check? So you have said both copy vio and that the article doesn't exist (so its copied from a non-existent article?) and that the editor may have been the subject of the Tribune article, with no basis for any of the three accusations. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:55, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
	::In fact there is a basis, based on the name they give on their user page. But I am doing my best not to out the user any more than they have already outed themselves. ] (]) 22:38, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
	:::They explicitly give their name, where they live etc. on their user page. Upon a re-read of the article, I noticed that it has done a pretty good job of staying at the higher/more general level. Something this specialized might start messing that good pattern up, so it's fine (and, in hindsight, even preferable) with me that the material stays out. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:03, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
			Your last addition was fantastic. I've been trying to make this point for awhile and I think your example is the best one so far. We need to be very careful discussing impacts because we are validating the concept in wikivoice. The welfare queen example is perfect. If we say this is the impact, we de facto are calling them welfare queens through synth. Good response! ] (]) 20:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
	==Frustration with deletion==
			:{{ping|Squatch347}} Thanks! I have an interest in this term-related structurally more than NPOV. In this case it has NPOV impact. In other cases it sows eternal confusion at the article even when there is no NPOV issue. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:16, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
	Oakland has 5th highest violent crime rate in the US.. It has paid out more to victims of police misconduct than any other city in CA by far. Its police force may be taken over by the federal government.
	In short, Oakland is a highly notable city. Important things are happening in the city government there. It's frustrating to hear that local leaders aren't "notable enough" when they're the civil authorities responsible for truly life and death decisions.
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	Why are the people of Oakland devalued in this way that their leaders 'don't count'?
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 15:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
	I would write more on the biography if I thought it would help, but I'm not sure what more I could add that would change any minds. People for whatever reason want the article deleted despite a lot of Reliable Sources on the individual.
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 23:16, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	it's hard to write for a project that doesn't seem to value my time. thank you for being an exception. --] (]) 17:29, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 22:30, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
	:Thanks. I'm assuming that that you're talking about the ] article. (?) I think that folks there are being sincere in trying to do the correct thing, but some are making an error. One of introducing a second criteria beyond meeting wp:GNG. If you wanted to bolster it further, my advice would be to find an(other) article or 2 which has some detailed coverage of her specifically and incorporate that as a reference. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:53, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 23:21, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	== ] ==
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	Hey north,
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:54, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	I'm fixing up the article for POV to save it from deletion. Looks notable from the refs. <font color="green">]</font> (] * ]) 05:45, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
	:Cool/nice work taking that on. I've since reinforced that my opinion was and is "keep". The subject is notable, has references, it just needs a lot of work. The latter is technically not relevant to the decision, but a fast start there can't hurt. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:28, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 04:31, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
	== At wp:V ==
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:02, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
	Re *your* latest post: Ah! good summary. But see ] where merging of wp:nor and wp:v was attempted; epic fail, unfortun*later*ly. ] (]) 11:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
	:Yes And then a subsequent effort ran out of gas. A huge undertaking, probably too huge to ever happen. Probably the more realistic possibility is to take the duplicated items out of NOR. The remaining 10% would be the particular points made about OR per the real world meaning of that term. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:57, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
	== Talk page of an deleted article ==
	Hello North. The article ] was deleted. Because of my fault (ignorance, basically), and as was pointed by ], the talk page is lost (I thought that it will remain after deletion, sorry). Is there any way to recover the Talk page of that article, so we can put the whole history/criticism in here ]? I tell you this becuase some people have already commented (they where mentioned in the article) about the "authoritarism" of the deletion. Having the full discussion could help to illustrate them the reasons for the deletion (for example I cited all the policies that were violated). I also noticed that you reviewed the whole article again, thanks.
	Finally, is there a way to get a copy of the wikitext of the article? If that is possible and not too much problems, I would like to get one. Just because I foresee how these comments I am reciving may evolve.
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	Thank you very much and sorry for my mistake. ] (]) 16:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
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	:Something seems confused here. As far as I can see, it was Sandstein who closed the AFD and deleted the article (and its talk page), not you. And to delete an article or to retrieve the contents of a deleted article takes access to administrator tools, which I don't have and assume that Sandstein has. Being both the person who handled it and somebody with access to the tools to fufill your request, I think that it would be best to contact them. Let me know if I can help. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 00:25, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	::I didn't mean to say I deleted the article. what I meant is that when I marked it for deletion, I did not copy the discussion about the article and therefore it got lost when the article was deleted (not by me). I will contact Sandstein. Thank you very much. ] (]) 14:56, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
	:::Sounds good. I hope the whole situation works out well for you. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:20, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 20:30, 26 February 2023 (UTC)
	== inre ] ==
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 00:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
			==Featured Article Save Award==
	I invite you back to the AFD discussion and offer that you take a look and the sources so-far added to the article. As improvement is easily do-able, and has actually begun, perhaps you might be inclined to change your "Weak keep" to something a bit stronger? Best, ''']''' '']'' 22:15, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
			{{ivmbox
			|image = Cscr-featured.svg
			|imagesize=60px
			|extracss=font-size:1.25em; font-family:Georgia;
			|text = On behalf of the ], thank you, {{{user|{{safesubst:<noinclude/>BASEPAGENAME}}}}}! Your work on ''']''' has allowed the article to retain its ], recognizing it as one of the best {{{type|<includeonly>{{Error|Error: No type specified}}</includeonly><noinclude>article</noinclude>}}}s on Misplaced Pages. I hereby award you this ], or FASA. You may display this FA star upon your userpage. {{safesubst:<noinclude/>#switch:<includeonly>{{{type|}}}</includeonly><noinclude>article</noinclude>
			}} Keep up the great work! {{{extra|}}} Cheers, {{{poster|] (]) 16:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)}}}
			}}
	::Happy to take another look. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:30, 18 February 2012 (UTC)		{{Ping|Nikkimaria}} Thanks. It was my pleasure. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:59, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
	:::Took a look. Changed my recommendation to "keep". My original note was "WP:notability not established in the article, but ability to meet wp:notability looks likely". Now sources have been added. Nice work! Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:36, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
	::::Thank you for looking in. Appreciations. ''']''' '']'' 00:39, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	== inre ] ==
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 18:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
	An article lacking sources is always a concern, but does not always call for deletion if the issue is addresable. Perhaps you might revisit the discussion, as numerous sources meeting ] for this topic have been offered. ''']''' '']'' 04:28, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
	:You're right. You showed that they do exist. (but still barely in the article) I put one of the better-looking ones into the article & changed my recommendation to "keep". Thanks for the heads-up. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)		:Done<b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:26, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
	::Thanks for that. I may be able to myself expand the article tomorrow. ''']''' '']'' 13:07, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
	==Unsolicited advice==		== Re: 3RR ==
	Hi, mate. I took too long to realise I'm being trolled; thanks for speaking up but it may be better to leave it alone for the moment.—] <small>]/]</small> 20:42, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks. As you may have noticed, when it comes to differences of opinion I'm pretty low key, but when it comes to threats to having a proper process in place for that debate, I'm quite the opposite. The idea of saying that someone might have to be investigated for investing their time to speak for the view that was the vast majority view from the huge RFC certainly was the latter. It seems that as a result the individual posted a much more civil "prequel". But I'll take your advice. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:14, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
			The relevant text is in the pink box located at the ] hyperlink - {{tq|An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes or manually reverses other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert.}}
	== Some more fun ==
	Hi! One or more of the drafts you posted at WT:VER have been transferred to ], and you can see or edit there, if you are interested. Cheers <small>] (])</small> 16:43, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
			Best. ] (]) 21:29, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
	== Philmont geographic features and Rayado Program merge ==
			:I read that differently. That if a combination of consecutive edits is a revert, it's still a revert even if each one alone is not. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:42, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
			:: I hear what you're saying, but given the very generous way individual edits are interpteted as reverts in general, it isn't clear to me how a revert could emerge in the aggregate from edits that are not themselves reverts, considered separately. But in any event, the "case law" at WP:3RRN is fairly clear that consecutive edits always count as only a single revert. ] (]) 21:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
	Discussion for merging ], ], ], and ] into the ] section as well as ] into the ] subsection of ] is now on ] ] and ]. ]<sup>]]</sup> 14:23, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
	:Sorry for the slow response, I've been gone for a few days. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it out. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:59, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
	== :) ==
			== ]: Arbitration case opened ==
	I don't know whether you actually meant in humor, but the way it's come out is side splitting :):) ] ] 06:06, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the note. I've been gone for several days, sorry for the slow response. Your are certainly right about how it looks. But I was an unintended comedian. I was trying to be graceful. Their post was unintelligible, but it seemed like there might have been a good point behind it. Thanks again. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:58, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
			Hello {{u|North8000}},
	== Misplaced Pages:Verifiability at WP:DR/N ==
	Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "]". Thank you.<!--Template:DRN-notice--> --<small>] (])</small> 23:33, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
			You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at ]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at ]. '''Please add your evidence by April 04, 2023, which is when the first evidence phase closes.''' Submitted evidence will be summarized by Arbitrators and Clerks at ]. Owing to the summary style, editors are encouraged to submit evidence in small chunks sooner rather than more complete evidence later.
	== Libertarianism ==
			Details about the summary page, the two phases of evidence, a timeline and other answers to frequently asked questions can be found at ].
	Could you explain what you find objectionable about my edits to ]? ] (]) 20:15, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
			For a guide to the arbitration process, see ].
	:We should do this at the article talk page rather than splitting. But I don't find it objectionable, just a bad substitution for the first sentence in the lead. Probably would be good as content in the article. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:39, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
			For the Arbitration Committee,<br>] (]) 00:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
	Well, I think that after a couple years of effort it is much improved and friendly. And we found a few rosetta stones along the way which helped. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:47, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
	== Verifiability mediation ==		== COI "gap" ==
			Hello ],
	Hi North8000, and thanks for agreeing to the ] - it's great to have you on board. Seeing your post at the mediation page got me wondering about about the mediation agenda, and whether there could be a way of doing things that is more efficient. Do you have any ideas to get the mediation going even quicker, by any chance? I'm sure that if we pooled our ideas together we could do something really awesome. :) Best — <b style="text-shadow:0.15em 0.15em 0.1em #555; color: #194D00; font-style: oblique; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">] <sup>]</sup></b> 15:09, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
	::Well, the most efficient method (but one which may fail) is what's happening right now on the wp:ver talk page right now. Looks like a reasonable chance that that the whole thing could be tentatively settled by tomorrow, and finalized if the tentative stuff sticks for a couple weeks. If that fails, the I think it more important that your process moves it decisively forward than it is for it to be fast. Towards that end my ideas would be:
	::*Identify and confine it to the contested areas. If you start blending in other general improvement ideas for wp:ver the process would mire down/die under its own weight.
	::*Get the participants to identify their goals/priorities with respect to the items of dispute. I.E. items that they feel most strongly about.
	::*I can do more on this one, but need to develop a set of questions that deals with the mechanics/logical underpinnings of the wording and it's effects, folks feelings in those areas, and how it gets invoked. Most folks are dealing with just the intended meanings and intended uses, but that isn't enough.
	::Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:00, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
			Just a quick note to greet you outside of a noticeboard discussion.
	== ] of ] ==
	]] has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at ].<!--Template:Tfdnotice--> ] (]) 16:34, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
	::Thanks. I'll respond there. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:40, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
			I appreciated your recent comment at the COIN thread that there is something tangible, in certain closely examined cases, between "strongly discouraged" and "forbidden" re COI editing. Part of the community seems to be using the "wikilawyering" charge to shut down any thoughtful exploration of that gap, which I find egregiously unjust.
	== Added 2 books ==
			You make the comment above that "too often Misplaced Pages is a nasty place". I feel this, and may or may not resume editing the encyclopaedia.
	You added two conference proceedings by the article creator ]. Have you verified that waht the proceedings contain is relevant to the article and that it is suitable further reading? ] (]) 23:58, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
			In case it's of interest, I made some general comments re my concerns about the editor experience, and tendentious applications of WP policy, in my statement at my user page.
	They were used as references in the German version of the article. I don't know German to know the sentences that cited them which is why I put them in as further reading rather than as references. IRWolfie, I am just trying help figure out what the outcome should be there. You seem to be making efforts towards a particular outcome, including, it seems, seeking to parry / find issues with anything that would tend to support an outcome contrary to that. When, after a long period of saying I wasn't sure (including through the entire 1st RFD) and I finally decided to weigh in, I clearly noted that one group of links as (only) lots of people are selling product with that technology and that such indicated a likelihood of sources. You "missed" what I said and critiqued those commercial links as not being wp:rs's, something that I clearly never claimed that they were; I never even claimed that they were sources, just what that they showed what I described above. We have an article that is a technology that is clearly in widespread use, is manufactured by many companies, and has a multitude of sources available as evidenced in the German version of the article. (Your core arguments are the very same arguments that I initially made, so, of course, I understand them.) IMHO we would certainly be doing the wrong thing by deciding to delete the article. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
			I found the content and tone of your contribution to that thread refreshing.
	::Sorry, it may have seemed that I am aggressive but it is not my intent. I don't think I've seen reliable sources to establish the topic as notable. I don't think we should keep an article on the suggestion that reliable sources may exist but that we can't locate them. I was establishing (for the closing admin) that the links are not reliable sources on the off chance that they may be interpreted as such. We can't use them in the article and I don't think a specific technology is in widespread use; it seems the methods widely differ from what I've seen to get LEDs between glass. ] (]) 10:35, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
			Sincerely, ] (]) 21:50, 15 March 2023 (UTC)
	:::Well, we're both just trying to do our best to help out there. I would have to spend a few hours on the topic of the article to figure out what to do and be certain of it; I've spent only about a 1/2 hour and am trying to do my best with what I learned in that time. To me it looks like a "sky is blue" situation that the topic is notable and that substantial wp:notable sources exists. You are basically saying that such has not been shown via sources used as cites in the article, and that that particular combination of words/ technologies may not be wp::notable. Those points are not at odds with each other. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:03, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
			:{{ping|Walton22}} Thanks for the post and compliment. I really don't enough about the situation to have an opinion. The universe of Misplaced Pages editing can be a weird alternate universe and often a rough and tumble or nasty one. I don't have the wiki-minutes to take a deep broad dive, but if I can ever advise or help, let me know. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:55, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
	== ] ==
			::{{ping|North8000}} Thank you very much. I was happy to just make broad brush strokes now by way of this introduction, but I do very much appreciate the offer to counsel a little in the future if need be. "Alternate universe" is right! There is great potential for justice here, and indeed I see it happen often. ] (]) 16:23, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
	Sorry about my edit: I was careless while looking at the diff and thought that the anon deleted the item. ] (]) 17:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
	:Cool. Thanks for the note! Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:17, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
	== ] ==		== I think ==
	That seemed redundant to me. I'm wondering, how would s.t. be a single body of water other than hydrologically? — ] (]) 00:29, 8 March 2012 (UTC)		you should check the spelling of Sarah Vaugn's name in your gallery. ] (]) 18:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
	:I think I was reading too much into it i.e. with respect to the other issues with the article rather than looking closely at the exact wording. Good point and I'll revert myself on that. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)		:{{Ping|Carptrash}} Thanks. It looks like I have it (Vaughan) right. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:56, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
	::Yeah, I wouldn't want to make a blanket statement about it being a single "lake", because "lake" has no objective definition. I ''think'' "body of water" is unambiguous, but maybe someone will show that it's not. — ] (]) 01:10, 8 March 2012 (UTC)		::And while I have you here, what do you think of ] & ] as folk singers? I say "No" but it is always nice to meet a bold person who is actually willing to make the edits. ] (]) 19:15, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
	:::Cool! Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 04:35, 8 March 2012 (UTC)		::::{{Ping|Carptrash}} I have no expertise on them but their articles make zero mention of such and so I'd say no. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
	== Misplaced Pages talk:Mediation Cabal/Cases/27 February 2012/Wikipedia:Verifiability ==
	I am sure that I have visited this talk page before, Hi there user:North8000, however I cannot locate any other comments here that I might have made (recently, wasn't it)? It may be time to do some archiving on this talk page?
			== Ping (April 2023)==
	I admire your editing, user, you have a strong heart, and a propensity to stand up for the weak and defenceless and those under attack. Those are desirable traits, if I intuit correctly, I hope I am not speaking out of turn.
			FYI, the ping in your reply at ANI won't work. See the documentation at ] for more info. Cheers. <span style="border:1px solid midnightblue; padding:0 2px">]</span>&nbsp;] 21:56, 6 April 2023 (UTC)
	Now, let me say, I must, I feel under attack from you from your last post at the talk page. I shall have to explain, I can see. Your accusation, that is how I see it, is uncalled for, and inaccurate. You ought to learn and think before you post, sorry.
			:{{Ping|XAM2175}} Thanks. There was one where I did it wrong and then fixed it a few minutes later. Is that the one that you are referring to? or did I make another error. :-) <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
			::It's at {{section link|Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents|Proposal to Indef DBachmann}}. The entire point of my message is that you ''can't'' fix it{{snd}}the ping only works if ''all'' of these conditions are fulfilled in the edit where you place the ping template:
			::*The edit must add new lines of text, not just edit existing lines.
			::*The edit must be signed by adding <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> to the end of the message.
			::*The edit must either be entirely within an existing section (it cannot have new section headers in the middle) or start a new section (starts with a new section header).
			::*The number of users to be pinged must be equal to or less than 50.
			::Thus, if you forget to add a ping, or get it wrong, the easiest thing to do is revert your reply entirely and then add it again with a working ping. Cheers. <span style="border:1px solid midnightblue; padding:0 2px">]</span>&nbsp;] 18:37, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
			:::{{ping|XAM2175}}Thanks much for your post. I learned from it. I thought that you just needed a new signature and a new ping. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 22:58, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
			::::No worries, glad I could help! 🙂 <span style="border:1px solid midnightblue; padding:0 2px">]</span>&nbsp;] 23:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
			==Procedural notification==
	Those diffs, they replace the statements that were there. No-one has "bombed"the page, it ain't a ]!! I don't war!! It is a perfectly adequate means of ], I ought not have to go into it, you could check the links, archiving you see.
			Hi, I and others have proposed additional options at ]. You may wish to review your position in that RfC. ] (]) 02:22, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	I will put this as I must; please don't talk down to me; please don't be tempted to repeat rubbish, (that's what you are doing) that originated with other users; please consider my feelings, if you're that way inclined, I know you are, and believe me I consider your feelings, and post in good faith.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 12:31, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
	Just take a few days to think about it, see where you went wrong this time. There is no hurry, I have withdrawn from proceedings there, I ain't a good drafter of proposals to draft proposals to propose as a draft Rfc, but I wish you, sincerely, the best.
			Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:54, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	In the meantime, I suggest you self-revert that post; it makes you look stupid, and hurts me. Anyway, why address me when I have withdrawn from the page? You are off-topic, and off-beam, as I admit I am sometimes, and that has lead you into misjudging me. The ], it is.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 22:30, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
	If you are unable to comprehend the convoluted way I have to go about communicating under theses circumstances (I was not born with a brain-to-USB interface) bear with me, we shall then have to discuss it at either convenient user talk:page. I don't like to chat as such, I am sure we can have fruitful interactions though, really, but this matter is a dead onion, or a no-way street. Do your Rfc thing, ''that'' I may comment on, when it goes live to the public as it is intended to do. I have no good ]s of that page: I was insulted, and I also insulted some user, to my current shame.
			== Accidental pings?` ==
	It is not up to you to control the page, you spoke needlessly and out of turn, it is the prerogative of the Mediator, user:Mr. Stradivarius to chastise me, if that were required, so you are not really on top of the '''ground rules'''. Believe me, I have as much dedication to seeing the right thing done, in the long run, and to ''all users'', not just those on one side or other of a lame edit conflict.
			Hey, did I accidentally ping you 3 times consecutively in my attempt to edit the Fox News RfC? If so, so sorry. Wait, wouldn't this talk page message make it 4? Oh no. -- ] (]) 03:51, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
	I have said enough, we will work together well in the future, you see. Please stop mis-judging me, in fact please stop judging me at all, we are ] here, and there's more than one way to skin a cat.
			{{Ping|Mebigrouxboy}} I did get a couple of pings and it was bit confusing where they didn't go. Thanks for the pings and the post. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:19, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
	I recommend, if you are still disconcerted here, that you seek sensible advice from the Mediator, user:Mr. Stradivarius, at ]. That is how it ought to go, if you have questions that don't need to be raised at the talk page itself, as in this instance for instance; you will see that ''I have sought such advice from Mr Strad'', a most knowledgable User. Or, if you wish to bumble and stumble through a conversation with myself, if anything would be served by that, then reply here, I will watch, or come to user talk:newbyguesses, we do it there, whatever suits . Best wishes, think hard, take no offence, none is intended. Same, sincerely, ]. <small>] (])</small> 07:11, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	:Newbyguess, I have no quarrel with you, I don't even know your position on the issues there. My complaint is that is the same that others have had, that you are making a mess out of the talk pages with your unusual (to put it nicely) practices. In this particular case you inserted put a bunch of links (with no statements with them and not even your signatures, and the link text was just "link" )into postings which were by other people. But I don't consider it essential that my comment to you be on that page. Per your request I'll move it off of that page to here. I'll do it quickly so that it doesn't start a new thread there. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 09:48, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
	::I have moved it, here it is:
	:::Newbyguesses, could you start putting coherent thoughts onto talk pages instead of what you have been doing, such as what you just did....bombing this page with diff links with no statements with them. Thanks. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:54, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
	:::: Thank you. Could you check those diffs? Unless I got it wrong, they are the exact diffs to replace the words that were previously posted there. So, they ARE signed, they are by user:Newbyguesses, not conflicting with any other user's comments, and there should be no problem with that. If user:Mr. Stradivarius has any problems, he will surely post to User Talk:Newbyguesses, not your problem. (That section could even be archived, none of those posts are relevant to steps 3, 4, 5 etc.) I won't be posting at all any more to the Mediation, very likely. When you say "coherent" do you perhaps mean ??
	:::: Anyway, thanks, but do your own thinking, don't just go along with the mob, and have a go at me when I have stayed cool and out of the picture, and don't want criticism when I did one little post, huh. No, we are fine now, sincerely, it is all good and I wish you the best, and we will meet again , there's 3,000,000+ articles to edit! Have you not noticed that I am not being "disruptive", I was blocked, then unblocked! I have been editing for 5 years, so this trouble I had is distasteful to me, but of course you are in no way involved in that, my thanks, sincerely. My position on any issue(s) at WP:V is ''undecided'', "leaning towards don't care", ''not a member of any special-interest group'', "got better things to do", that is,'' things more in line with my abilities and interests''. Not gonna be taking sides, don't think. My thanks <small>] (])</small> 11:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Thanks. Happy editing! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:19, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 06:31, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
	== Upbound and downbound ==
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:36, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
	The upbound page was recently deleted because Misplaced Pages is not a dictionary. See my talk page for reasons given to delete the downbound page. I created both articles but I have to agree that they really belong in a dictionary.--] (]) 18:07, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 16:30, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
	:I'll go by your thoughts and recommendation on that. I was originally thinking that maybe it should end up as something like a "nautical directions" article and thought thought that it should get sorted out at AFD if it goes further. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:21, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
	::Including let me know if you want me to undo my unprodding. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (])
	:::I'm OK with your change. I just recalled that I already added the terms to the ]. Do you think that is sufficient?--] (]) 21:47, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
	::::I think so. The links from articles could just go to the overall ] page. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:52, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
	== March 2012 ==
	Please stop your ]. If you continue to use talk pages for ], as you did at ], you may be ]. <!-- Template:uw-chat3 --> ] <sup>]</sup> 13:08, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
	::Placing an opinion on a talk page at the article about a wp:npov problem at the article is not by any stretch of the imagination "disruptive editing". Your extensive refactoring and deletion of talk page comments however is clearly improper and a clear violation of guidelines. Please stop. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:14, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
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	Another example of using false accusations as a tactic to try to get one's way. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:58, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	== Response to your possible poll wording ==
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	Ref: ]
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	First of all, it is not an easy question to comprehend.&nbsp; Figures of speech, of which I believe that VNT is an example, are defined as being ambiguous, having both a literal and a diverging meaning.&nbsp; So I guess you are saying that no matter how someone interprets any of the various meanings, the effects should be contained on WP:V.&nbsp; But it still seems to miss a viewpoint that it is WP:V policy that truth is not required for inclusion on Misplaced Pages.&nbsp; So if your proposal is in policy, how do you respond to someone that says, "It doesn't matter to me that you have evidence that the urban legend isn't true, it is verifiable."&nbsp; ] (]) 02:43, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
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	:Of course, excellent thoughts and question. I'll start with the short answer. What you just described covers an immense range of situations and complexities. WP:ver should just "mind its own business".......say that verifiability is one of the requirements for inclusion. .....period, end of story. without saying anything that can be interpreted as weighing in on all of those other topics. Let all of the OTHER mechanisms of Misplaced Pages (policies, guidelines, editor discussions, RFC's etc.) deal with those other topics.
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:51, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
			== ''AlisonW'' case request accepted ==
	:This is an interesting conversation, and I'd be happy to carry it on further in any direction that you care to. To answer your particular question, I'd need more particulars. But let's say that it's something that 99% would say is a false urban legend. And that a wp:RS stated it as being fact. Then my answer would be: OK, you've shown us that wp:ver does not EXCLUDE your material. Now we can start the discussion of whether and how the material should be in the article. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:26, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
			You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at ]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at ]. '''Please add your evidence by June 30, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes.''' For a guide to the arbitration process, see ]. For the Arbitration Committee, ] <sup>'']'' &#124; '']''</sup> 23:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
	==With regards to the Libertarianism page IP troll==
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			== kkk ==
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_assistance#122.60.93.162_Personal_insults.2Fnon-relevant.2Fmaking_assertions_without_any_effort_to_justify
			I think you may be misrepresenting me . I am trying to abide by ], as we all should. I find it troublesome, but perhaps it was just an accident? ] (]) 04:24, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
	] (]) 25 March 2012
			:{{Ping|Darknipples}} I didn't write anything by accident nor did I write anything uncivil. I did civilly take issue with one thing that you said about those who feel opposite that you do but even that was just a sidebar to my post. From your apologetic post I think you are being sincere and so I would like to offer a thought that might be useful. I've familiar with TFD's work (for over a decade) and they are one of the most careful, non-emotional, academic and source-based editors that I've interacted with. Their arguments (and mine) are just trying to sort out / discuss the specific narrow topics that you opened the section with. I think that you are misreading this as being about some broader POV struggle. There's nobody there who likes the KKK. IMO there are people who want to make the KKK article be (just) about the KKK. What reinforced my thought about the possible misreading was that quote that you closed you post with is something the to me looks like excellent relevant material for the article but you seemed to mistakenly thinking that the people who want to exclude that (IMHO irrelevant) material that you opened the section with have some broader exclusion goals which they don't have. In short, you may be imagining a battle that does not exist. And that a good way to sort that out would be to not conflate the narrow topic of your post that started that section with the other topics that you are mentioning, and to use the test of relevance to the article to help sort things out. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:52, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
			::I'll clarify my so-called "absurd argument" for you. It's because ''it is'' excluding him, not entirely, but it's still exclusion. If that's how you want to interpret it, that's up to you. I clarified that I wasn't accusing anyone and that I was talking about under-representation, not disassociation. You seemingly used a misinterpretation as a means to discredit arguments I technically wasn't trying to make, which is a ]. That is not something I get bent out of shape over because it isn't typically uncivil. Where it crossed the line was calling it "absurd" (your word) which adds ] on top of the misrepresentation. Now try to look at it from my perspective. If my response to you was...{{tq|"I didn't write anything by accident nor did I write anything uncivil"}}, what would you do? Would you still take the time to try to clear the air in effort to keep things CIVIL? Think about it, unfortunately I won't be responding on the article talk page until this gets sorted out. Cheers. ] (]) 01:42, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
			::BTW I don't mean to sound condescending, by linking those logical fallacies. I do agree with and respect the rest of your explanation, but I don't feel as though I am being acknowledged or understood properly, so when I respond sometimes I overcompensate. ] (]) 02:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
			{{Ping|Darknipples}} There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding. I NEVER said that you made an absurd argument. Let's let the actual words speak for themselves. Please review the following:
	:Thanks for the heads up. Their lack of specifics certainly does limit the usefulness and weight of what they are saying. And saying it very bluntly without such is an impolite tone. And the one comment to Fifelfoo crossed the line regarding wp:civility. And feel that banning them from Misplaced Pages regarding this is a few levels too far. That's pretty much the extent of my thoughts/knowledge. Not sure if you would want me to weigh in there or not. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:46, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
			* You made the following statement: "While I don't agree with the explanations I've been given as to why excluding David Duke from the KKK article...."
			* And I responded to /referred to that statement saying "you open with saying that somebody made the absurd argument to generally exclude David Duke from the article (which I don't see anyone having said anything like that)"
			It is not abundantly clear that this is NOT calling your argument absurd? My complaint was that you were misstating the arguments of others in a way that makes them / their argument look absurd. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:51, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment ==
	== WP:V mediation compromise drafts ==
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 17:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
	Hello North8000, this is just to let you know that to help find compromise drafts at the ], I would like each mediation participant to submit at least one draft at one work group that includes the best of all the previously submitted drafts of that work group. This will probably make more sense if you look at ] on the mediation page, but if anything is still unclear, just let me know. Best regards — <b style="text-shadow:0.15em 0.15em 0.1em #555; color: #194D00; font-style: oblique; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">] <sup>]</sup></b> 17:35, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks, I'll do that. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:03, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
	== WP:V mediation step five ==
			== ] closed ==
	Hello North8000, this is another update about the ]. We have now started ], in which we will work towards deciding a final draft for each work group. I would like you to submit a statement about this - have a look at the ] to see the details of what you should include. The deadline for this step is 10.00 am on Friday 6th April (UTC), and unlike the other steps I am going to be strict about it. If you don't leave a statement by the deadline, then you won't be able to participate in steps six or seven. If you think you are going to be late turning in your statement, please let me know as soon as possible - I can't promise anything, but it will be much easier to work out alternative arrangements now than it would be after the deadline has passed. Best regards — <b style="text-shadow:0.15em 0.15em 0.1em #555; color: #194D00; font-style: oblique; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">] <sup>]</sup></b> 17:42, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
			The arbitration case ] has been closed, and the final decision is viewable at the case page. The following remedy has been enacted:
	:Thanks, I'll do that. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:45, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
	::Since you have the excellent judgment to agree with me :-) I want to draw your attention to that deadline, lest you be locked out of the next steps. Cheers, --] (]) 18:55, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
	:::(Actually, I'm just hitching a ride for half of that big $$$$$.) Thanks, I needed that nudge. Now I think I have it done. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:01, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
			* For failure to meet the conduct standards expected of an administrator, AlisonW's administrative user rights are removed. She may regain them at any time via a successful request for adminship.
	== inre ] ==
			For the Arbitration Committee, ] <sup>'']'' &#124; '']''</sup> 17:45, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
	I invite you to look at article improvements to see if you might up your support from just "weak". ''']''' '']'' 22:17, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
			: Discuss this at: ''']'''
	:I did that and upgraded my "Weak keep" to "keep". Nice work. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:37, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
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	::All it took was a little research and a few edits. Thanks for checking back. :) ''']''' '']'' 19:24, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
	== Your participation on ID page ==		== ''SmallCat dispute'' case opened ==
			You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at ]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at ]. '''Please add your evidence by August 4, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes.''' You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, ]. For a guide to the arbitration process, see ]. For the Arbitration Committee, ] <sup>'']'' &#124; '']''</sup> 13:04, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
	North8000, first, I want to apologize: I try to be level-headed, but got rather frustrated dealing with what I saw as unjustified editing. If I may be frank, I felt that you were pushing ] by claiming that Intelligent Design Creationism (IDC) is on firmer grounds than it is, due to its origins in the separate topic, the teleological argument. This is why I and others continually asked for sources; we want to ensure no OR gets published. Regardless of all that, I wanted to say that I don't want you to leave. To explain well my position, I'll probably have to give you some background first. And so...
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			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	I am, ], an anarchist. I don't accept power hierarchies and I think there is adequate justification for faith in order without institutionalized power (e.g. ], ], ], etc.). So, when I say, "I don't want you to leave", I mean that no one has the power to remove you from the editing process in any capacity. I'd much prefer that you become a strong editor and continue to improve WP, and I could make some suggestions about how to better argue for changes if you'd like, but I was frustrated with the manner in which you proceeded and felt it necessary to stop aggravating myself by encouraging further discussion. My agitation is my problem and I can fix it by remaining silent; you needn't leave to appease me (or anyone).
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 14:31, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
	All that said, I really do ] and believe you were honestly trying to improve the article. I bear no ill-will toward you and wish you all the best, whether or not you choose to leave the discussion page. Thank you, and have a great day! -- ] (] | ]) 19:09, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
			:done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:31, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service ==
	:Thank you so much for that! I think that you misread me. My argument was strictly on the mechanics of material and organization of articles and terminology. Quite simply, the ID article has non-DI ID material in it, therefore the scope of the article and the term is broader than DI. That sentence sums up the entire core of my argument!....and my argument requires and deals with only the bare-bone mechanics of what is in the article. Som maybe folks are mistakenly thinking that I'm trying to deal in broader topics and then it gets confusing from there.
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	:So, to me it looks this simple: Imagine an article titled "Widgets" Paragraph #2 discusses red widgets. Paragraph #3 is about green widgets. The disambig line for the article says "this article is about Red Widgets. And the lead has a sentence that says "All Widgets are Red". I am arguing to modify or remove those two statements because they do not match what is in the article. Folks are saying "where's your source for that?" And I'm thinking source for WHAT? I'm just noting that those statements conflict with what is in the article!
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:44, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	:I think that you were giving me credit for dealing with high falutin' stuff whereas I was only dealing only in rudimentary mechanics and as a result we may have been speaking two different languages. Either way, thank you very much for the post, I sorry for any grief that I caused, and thank you for your efforts at building Misplaced Pages. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:28, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
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	::I'm fairly certain I understand your position, but I feel you don't understand my response. There are two distinct subjects: the Intelligent design made popular by the DI under the name ''Intelligent design'', which is a form of creationism (IDC); and the teleological argument, which is the common name for any argument for the existence of God based upon apparent design (''argument from design'', ''intelligent design'', etc.). There is already an article on the teleological argument, so first off, we're dealing with the first subject, IDC. That's the scope of the article. Secondly, we needn't limit information within the article to IDC because there are related subjects and these relations, where sourced, ought to be present in the article as well. As prime example, IDC is a contemporary adaptation of the teleological argument, so that subject (the teleological argument) is to be ] in the IDC article and the relationship explained. In this case, we have a ''History'' section which explains that IDC is a teleological argument, but one specifically couched in scientific terms and supported by creationists.
	::Your "Widgets" example seems to indicate a confusion about the subjects' relationship, so allow me to pose a more accurate scenario. Let's say that we have an article called "<font color="red">Red widgets</font>," its hatnote(s) explains that the article is about <font color="red">red widgets</font>, and the lead states that "all <font color="red">red widgets</font> are red." We can still discuss <font color="green">green widgets</font>, or <font color="blue">widgets</font> generally, if either subject has a prominent relationship to <font color="red">red widgets</font>. For example, it may be the case that <font color="red">red widgets</font> is a contemporary adaptation of <font color="blue">widgets</font>, and we might explain some general facts about <font color="blue">widgets</font> within the "<font color="red">Red widgets</font>" article, to showcase the similarities and differences between the two.
	::This is essentially how the ID article is organized, and I think the primary cause of confusion is with the ] policy and the common names of these subjects. In your widget analogy, the prominent names for each subject is the only name given, and there is no ambiguity. However, the prominent name for IDC is "Intelligent design", whereas the prominent name for arguments from design, including the colloquial usage of the phrase ''intelligent design'', is "Teleological argument." This would be like the "<font color="red">Red widgets</font>" article having the prominent name of "<font color="red">Red widgets</font>," though the "<font color="blue">Widgets</font>" article (under its prominent name, "<font color="blue">Widgets</font>") is sometimes referred to as an ''argument from red widgets''. Then, you can see how this colloquial usage of "red widgets," though a distinct subject from the prominently named "<font color="red">Red widgets</font>," can still be in the article about "<font color="red">Red widgets</font>" even if it refers to "<font color="blue">Widgets</font>" generally.
	::I'm trying to make this as clear as possible (hence the novella :P), but please let me know if I need to expound on anything. Or, if you'd prefer I drop this entirely, I can do that as well. Thanks! -- ] (] | ]) 21:30, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
	:::I think that I understand where you're coming from. If I may attempt to recap a few core (to-this-discussion) points:
	:::#The teleological argument article already exists
	:::#"the prominent name for arguments from design, including the colloquial usage of the phrase ''intelligent design'', is "Teleological argument."
	:::#Lets decide to put all ID that is not DI into the TA article, and all ID that is DI related into the ID article.
	:::#Because #2 is true, it's OK to put all ID that is not DI into the TA article.
	:::#Because #2 is true, it's OK to say that ID is only the thing created by DI.
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	:::So I think that your main arguments are dependent on #2 being accurate. I am no expert on this, but to me it appears that #2 is inaccurate and implausible. First the material and sources in the articles seem to indicate that the common name for all non-DI ID ''IS'' ID. Second I find it hard imagine a person with non-DI ID beliefs characterizing their beliefs as "I believe in the teleological argument" rather than "I believe in intelligent design"
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	:::So it looks like your argument relies on #2 being correct, and mine relies on #2 being incorrect. So I guess it all boils down to: Is #2 correct or incorrect?
	:::Thank you for this enjoyable discussion. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:24, 3 April 2012 (UTC)		:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:39, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	::::Yes! Thank you! That is exactly it! Now, ] is the important policy that justifies #2. Make sure to read ], which says to "e precise, but only as precise as necessary." It further states, "f the subject of an article is the primary (or only) topic to which a term refers, then that term can be the title of that article without modification, provided it follows all other applicable policies." "Intelligent design," being the primary topic and most prominent name for IDC, therefore gets to keep the name; the same applies to "Teleological argument." The naming convention also suggests a method of natural disambiguation: "If exists, choose a different, alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English, albeit, not as commonly as the preferred but ambiguous title". So, arguments from design, including those that use the phrase ''intelligent design'', can be naturally disambiguated to another (more) commonly used title: "Teleological argument."
	::::So, what we've done is separated the two subjects by their most prominent titles and placed a hatnote on one to make the distinct subjects clear. This is why we felt understanding the naming policy was important. -- ] (] | ]) 23:26, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Well, (just) to avoid confusion, I must take issue with your second sentence, IMO #2 is a real-world outside-of-Misplaced Pages question, and so IMHO your note that guidelines support #2 is not correct. Aside from that note you did not address what we both agreed is the pivotal question. (#2) Also, although it is not germane at the moment, adding one thing that I neglected to mention is that your argument is one that it is OK to do what you advocate, not an argument that it is preferable to do so. That said, I re-read those guidelines that you linked and also read what you wrote several times and analyzed it. IMHO the result is that your additional arguments are also dependent on #2 being the case / accurate. If #2 is not the case, and the reverse is true (that "ID" is the common name for non-DI ID) then DI ID is ''not'' the primary topic, it is merely the currently-most-common instance of the actual primary topic which is ID overall. So I think it still boils down to: If #2 is accurate, your argument "wins", if #2 is not accurate, my argument "wins". I believe that I have presented ''some'' evidence that #2 is inaccurate (to avoid repetition, I'll just point to it as in the paragraph just after the numerical listings.) I don't believe that you have presented any evidence that #2 is the case / accurate. Thanks again for this interesting and enjoyable discussion. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:51, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
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	::::::Thanks, North8000. I think we've at least come to a better understanding and I'm happy we were able to hash these things out. It really has been a pleasure.
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 00:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
	::::::I'm not sure that it would matter if the prominent name for the teleological argument was intelligent design though. As I said before, policy wants us to be no more specific than we have to, and we can naturally disambiguate "non-DI ID," even were it called ''ID'' prominently by specific ]s, to the teleological argument, due to the prominence of this title and the lack of an alternative title for ID. In this case, we just happen to have two separate, prominent names. Thanks again, and take care! -- ] (] | ]) 14:30, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	== Not trying to insult. ==
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	Hey if i offended you about your knowledge that was not my intention. It was a good discussion. Happy editing! ] (]) 14:16, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 00:13, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
	:Thanks for the post No sweat, no problem. I originally neglected to read the source that you linked and so originally I confused the issue by responding on the topic in general but not to that linked item. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:22, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
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	== Help editing ==
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:18, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	Hey North 8000,
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	I was wondering if there was a way to set the scope of a page, in particular the power electronics page.
			:Done. Active there already. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:33, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
	Thanks,
	] (]) 03:38, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
	:Well, the main thing that nails it down (or is supposed to nail it down) is the article title. BTW, article titles can be changed. When there is potential ambiguity, then a disambiguation statement at the beginning (or in a disambiguation page) also has influence. Another thing would be a sourced definition of "power electronics" early in the article, such as in the lead. When here is a question on what definition to implement via. these mechanisms, or how to implement what is in the mechanisms, that is usually handled via. a discussion on the article's talk page.
	:My first thought at this is semiconductors who's task includes handling power (I.E. not just signal or information) Precursor items that do a similar job could be mentioned as such.
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	:If there is a particular question, I'd be happier to get more deeply involved on that. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:28, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 16:30, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
	== Presidency of Barack Obama ==
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:36, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
			== Carmel Valley Historical Society ==
	Regarding edit that you made to ]: It is good that you put that content back into the article. Unfortunately, for the past three years, there has been an ongoing movement by some editors to remove reliably sourced content from the article, if such content is about things that Obama did that make him look bad. So, for example, while the article is allowed to mention Obama's various, wonderful sounding promises in the areas of "Transparency," "Wall St. Reform," and other subjects, it is not allowed to mention that he broke many of these promises. The fact that this censorship violates wikipedia's NPOV policy is of no concern to the many editors who have repeatedly removed this content over the past three years.
			{{ping|North8000}} We have spoken before about the ] and the ] articles, and I know you are interested in California History. Please check out the ] and add your 2 cents to '''keep''' the article. I think the article has merit and should not be deleted. Any help you can be provide would be appreciated. Thanks! ] (]) 22:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
	I am placing here, in a collapse template, the content in question:
			:Hi {{Ping|Greghenderson2006}} I'd be happy to take a look and see what I think. In your approach to these things I'd suggest reading ] so that your efforts will be in compliance with that guideline. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:59, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
			::Thanks, sorry about my approach, this has been pointed out to me. Just wanted to loop you into the discussion. ] (]) 15:04, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
			== Archiving ==
	{{collapse|
			Hello friend. Your user talk page is lagging my computer a bit. If you ever want me to set up bot archiving for you, just let me know, would be happy to help. Happy editing. –] <small>(])</small> 02:42, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
	Notable non-Cabinet positions
			:Thanks for the reminder. I'll do some housecleaning. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 03:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
			::I whacked over 1/2 of it. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 03:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
			== ] ==
	In February 2009, U.S. Senator ] (D-West Virginia) expressed concern that Obama's dozens of czars might violate the U.S. Constitution, because they were not approved by the U.S. Senate.<ref>, Politico, February 5, 2009</ref> U.S. Senator ] (D-Wisconsin) expressed a similar concern in September 2009.<ref>, thehill.com, September 16, 2009</ref>
			Thanks for the thanks, but it wasn't me who wrote it. It seems the page curation tool needs to be made a bit smarter about identifying who did the work. Yes, my edit is the first, but all I did was make a redirect for a redlink. I didn't flesh it out. The credit lies with Reubot. ] (]) 21:37, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
	In September 2009, Obama's green czar ] resigned after conservatives pointed out that he was a self described "]" and had blamed ] for the ].<ref>, September 6, 2009</ref>
			:{{Ping|Kerry Raymond}} Thanks for the post. I know that sometimes that is the case but it also puts the message on the talk page of the article. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:12, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
	In September 2009, it was reported that ], Obama's Assistant Deputy Secretary for the ], had written about his past frequent illegal drug use in his 2007 autobiography.<ref>, Fox News, September 23, 2009</ref>
	Economic policy
	In 2011, after ] had hired 1,000 new employees to work at its nearly completed new factory in ], the Obama administration ordered Boeing to shut down the factory, because the factory was non-union.<ref>, New York Times, April 20, 2011</ref>
			== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
	Obama fired the CEO of ]<ref>, Chicago Sun Times, March 29, 2009</ref>, and had the government take 60.8% ownership of the company.<ref>, The New York Post, July 11, 2009</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 16:31, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
	During the ] bankruptcy, Obama violated the ] and more than 150 years of ] by illegally treating ] worse than unsecured creditors.<ref>, Human Events, June 1, 2009</ref>
			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	The Obama administration gave $535 million to ], claiming that it would create 4,000 new jobs. However, instead of creating those 4,000 new jobs, the company went bankrupt. It was later revealed that the company's shareholders and executives had made substantial donations to Obama's campaign, and that the company had also spent a large sum of money on lobbying.<ref>, The Daily Caller, September 1, 2011</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 18:30, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
	Obama nominated ], a repeat tax cheater, to head the government agency that enforces the tax laws.<ref>, Washington Post, January 19, 2009</ref>
			== ] ==
	While Senator, Obama had voted for the ],<ref></ref> which included ] for ].<ref> propublica.org</ref> As President, Obama signed a ] that protected AIG bonuses.<ref>, CNN.</ref> Prior to signing this bill, Obama had said, "when I'm president, I will go line by line to make sure that we are not spending money unwisely."<ref>, votesmart.org, September 26, 2008</ref> However, after reading "line by line" and signing the stimulus bill that protected the AIG bonuses, Obama ] to be shocked and outraged at the bonuses, and said, "Under these circumstances, it’s hard to understand how derivative traders at A.I.G. warranted any bonuses at all, much less $165 million in extra pay... How do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat?" and also said that he would "pursue every single legal avenue to block these bonuses."<ref>, The New York Times, March 16, 2009</ref>
			Please be a bit careful when nominating players that have hundreds of top-flight appearances in populous countries, as you did to ]. You need to do a ] search in the respective language of the subject to find the best results. ] (]) 17:27, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
	On September 12, 2008, Obama promised, "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes." However, less than three months into his Presidency, he broke that promise when he raised the cigarette tax. Studies show that poor people are more likely to smoke than rich people.<ref>, Associated Press, April 1, 2009</ref>
			:Z{{Ping|Paul Vaurie}} If the sources exist, why don't you just put them in the article instead of writing posts like this? <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 22:06, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
			:: What in the world are you talking about? You {{tq|nominated the article for deletion}}. I am showing that there are sources, and that the subject passes ]. I don't have to go and add them into the article. We are evaluating the subject's notablity, not the quality of the article. Please review ] and ]. ] (]) 22:11, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
			:::See my previous post. If you think so, then put them into the article and settle it. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 22:14, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
			== Deletion discussion about ] ==
	Obama had armed federal agents raid the Gibson guitar factory, order the employees to leave, and seize guitars and other property from the factory - and all of this happened without any charges being filed.<ref>, Reuters, October 12, 2011</ref>
			:Hello North8800,
	In December 2010, Obama signed a two year extension<ref>, CNN, December 17, 2010</ref> of George W. Bush's "tax cuts for the rich."<ref>, New York Times, January 8, 2007</ref>
			:There a lot of similar pages in Misplaced Pages. i.e. ], ], etc. Could you please explain me why are you thinking of deleting this page?
			:] (])
			The reasons were the ones that I gave at the AFD. If you mean responding to the "similar pages" point that you made, when IMO there is pretty clearly a problem, I don't consider the face that other similar ones exist to be a reason to change that. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 17:59, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
	Obama said that he wanted to simplify the tax code.<ref>, MSNBC, April 15, 2009</ref> However, in the real world, Obama's proposals would actually add thousands of pages to the tax code.<ref>, bloomberg.com, March 13, 2008</ref>
			== Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment ==
	In January 2012, it was reported that 36 Obama aides owed a combined total of $833,000 in back taxes.<ref>, Investors Business Daily, January 26, 2012</ref>
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	Obama sued Citibank to force it to give mortgages to people who could not afford to pay them back.<ref>, mediacircus.com, October 3, 2008</ref>
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:11, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	The Obama administration pressured ] to stop airing a TV ad that criticized Obama's bailouts of General Motors and Chrysler.<ref>, Fox News, September 27, 2011</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 18:31, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
	On September 22, 2008, Obama said, "I am not a Democrat who believes that we can or should defend every government program just because it's there... We will fire government managers who aren't getting results, we will cut funding for programs that are wasting your money and we will use technology and lessons from the private sector to improve efficiency across every level of government... The only way we can do all this without leaving our children with an even larger debt is if Washington starts taking responsibility for every dime that it spends."<ref>, Associated Press, September 22, 2008</ref> However, ] gave Obama a 2007 rating of only 10%, and a lifetime rating of only 18%. <ref>, Citizens Against Government Waste</ref>
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:29, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	The ] increased more during Obama's first three years and two months than it did during all eight years of George W. Bush's presidency.<ref>, CBS News, March 19, 2012</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 12:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
	In February 2012, Obama shut down an ] farm for selling ] across state lines, even though the customers were happy with what they were buying.<ref>, Washington Times, February 13, 2012</ref>
			== Your comments at PragerU ==
	After Obama approved $2.1 billion in loan guarantees for ] so it could build solar power plants, the company filed for bankruptcy.<ref>, Reuters, April 2, 2012</ref>
			Could you please stop with sarcastic comments like these?
	In 2010, Obama gave $16.3 million to ], a company that manufactures solar panels, so the company could sell solar panels to itself.<ref>, Washington Examiner, March 18, 2012</ref>
			They are not helpful. This is inappropriate behavior for a contentious topic area. ––] ] 22:13, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|FormalDude}} I had a purpose in mind, and chose a lighthearted/indirect way to pursue it. <s>(Rather than a direct nasty overreach like accusing of accusing a particular editor of "Making a habit out of" and "disruptive") </s> Either way I don't plan to do any more of those there. Sincerely. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 03:00, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
	Ethics
			::Sorry you felt I was nasty, that was not my intent. I've changed the heading. ––] ] 04:44, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|FormalDude}} Thanks. I Updated with the strike. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 10:49, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
	Although Obama had promised to have "the most sweeping ethics reform in history," and had often criticized the role of money in politics, the truth is that after he was elected, he gave administration jobs to more than half of his 47 biggest fundraisers.<ref>, The Washington Post, March 6, 2012</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 15:30, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
	Lobbying reform
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	While running for President, Obama promised that he would not have any lobbyists working in his administration. However, by February 2010, he had more than 40 lobbyists working in his administration.<ref>, The Washington Examiner, February 3, 2010</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 17:31, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
	In June 2010, the ] reported that Obama administration officials had held hundreds of meetings with lobbyists at coffee houses near the White House, in order to avoid the disclosure requirements for White House visitors, and that these meetings "reveal a disconnect between the Obama administration’s public rhetoric — with Mr. Obama himself frequently thrashing big industries’ 'battalions' of lobbyists as enemies of reform — and the administration’s continuing, private dealings with them."<ref>, New York Times, June 24, 2010</ref>
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	Transparency
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 08:30, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
	In April 2009, antiwar activists who helped elect Obama accused him of using the same "off the books" funding as his predecessor George W. Bush when Obama reqeusted an additional $83.4 billion from Congress for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan - a provision which Obama had voted against when he was a Senator.<ref>, The Telegraph, April 10, 2009</ref>
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:23, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	In May 2010, it was reported that the Obama administration had selected ], a former subsidiary of ], for a ] worth as much as $568 million through 2011 for military support services in ], just hours after the ] said it will pursue a lawsuit accusing the Houston-based company of taking ] from two subcontractors on Iraq-related work.<ref>, liveleak.com, May 6, 2010</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 17:31, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
	Although Obama had promised to wait five days before signing all non-emergency bills, he broke that promise at least 10 times during his first three months in office.<ref>, Cato Institute, April 13, 2009</ref>
			== Update on my status as a wikipedia editor ==
	In December 2010, ] reported that corruption was increasing faster in the U.S. than anywhere else except ], ], and ].<ref>, businessinsider.com, December 11, 2010</ref>
			I just receive a notice on my talk page.
	In June 2009, Obama fired ] Gerald Walpin, after Walpin accused Sacramento mayor ], an Obama supporter, of misuse of ] funding to pay for school-board political activities. In a letter to Congress, the White House said that Walpin was fired because he was "confused, disoriented, unable to answer questions and exhibited other behavior that led the Board to question his capacity to serve."<ref>, Politico, June 17, 2009</ref> A ] group of 145 current and former public officials, attorneys, and legal scholars signed a letter that was sent to the White House, which defended Walpin, said the criticisms of him were not true, and said that his firing was politically motivated.<ref>, thehill.com, June 24, 2009</ref> The letter can be read . Fox News host ] gave Walpin an on-air ], which Walpin passed with a perfect score, meaning that he was not senile.<ref name = "PoliticoJune182010">, Politico, June 18, 2010</ref>
			It seems I've been given a broad, indefinite ban on editing wikipedia articles.
	In July 2009, White House reporter ] criticized the Obama administration for its lack of transparency.<ref>, Breitbart, July 1, 2009</ref>
			No explanation has been given to me as to what I've done wrong.
	In May 2009, the Obama administration dismissed charges that had been filed by the Bush administration against members of the ] who had been videotaped ] and brandishing a police-style baton at a Philadelphia polling station during the November 2008 election.<ref>, CNN, May 28th, 2009</ref><ref>, Fox News, May 29, 2009</ref> In August 2009, the ] demanded that the Justice Department explain why it dismissed the charges.<ref>, The Washington Times, August 4, 2009</ref> In July 2010, J. Christian Adams, a former lawyer for the Justice Department, testified before the Commission on Civil Rights that the case was dropped because the Justice Department did not want to protect the civil rights of white people.<ref>, New York Times, July 6, 2010</ref>
			I don't understand this. At all. Something is very wrong, here.
	During the 2008 campaign, Obama broke his promise to accept public financing and the spending limits that came with it.<ref>, New York Times, June 20, 2008</ref>
			{{Ping|Sbelknap}} You are banned from editing ''certain'' Misplaced Pages articles. I've not looked at the background leading up to this. Regarding degree of culpability maybe there are three possibilities:
	In January 2012, Obama violated the Constitution by making four recess appoints when Congress was not in recess. Recess appointments themselves are constitutional, but only if they are made when Congress is actually in recess.<ref>, The New Republic, January 4, 2012</ref>
			#Your behavior was fine by both Misplaced Pages real world standards and the result was a travesty.
	Although Obama had promised that the website recovery.gov would list all stimulus spending in detail, a 400 page report issued by the ] stated that only 25% of the projects listed on the website provided clear and complete information regarding their cost, schedule, purpose, location and status.<ref>, thehill.com, July 7, 2010</ref>
			#You behavior was fine by real world standards but (possibly in good faith.....ala "take it to talk") not by Wiki standards. With the most likely issue being ]. And some thinking by the crowd that the referred to emerging-science that is overtaking widely accepted folklore widely presumed to be science-based but which has no basis in science.
			#Your behavior was outrageous by Wiki standards .....maybe extreme ] and maybe strongly pushing ideas (aside from the above) which are actually fringier.
			My guess is that #2 is most likely. If so, based on what you said at ANI you've probably learned that and already shifted course. If so, I'd suggest editing the 99% of Misplaced Pages that you are not banned from (and practice that) and then ask to have the ban removed in 6 months or a year. In case it might help and if you wish, I'd agree to watch you for a month after that.
	Foreign policy
			Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:08, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
	In June 2011, U.S Congressman ] (D-Ohio) said that had Obama violated the Constitution when he launched military operations in Libya without Congressional approval.<ref>, thehill.com, June 15, 2011</ref>
			OK, thanks. I'll take you up on that. ] (]) 22:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
	In 2010, Obama supported releasing ] Abdel Baset al-Megrahi (who had been convicted of murdering 270 people) from prison.<ref>, theaustralian.com.au, July 26, 2010</ref>
			== Do you have the authority to review AFC submissions? ==
	In September 2010, it was reported that Obama planned to offer ] the biggest arms deal in the history of the U.S.<ref>, Wall St. Journal, September 12, 2010</ref>
			I notice that you consistently like my new articles but they have a lot of trouble with getting through AFC. Are you an AFC reviewer too? ] ❤️💚💙 ] 18:18, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
	In November 2011, Obama announced that he would send 2,500 Marines to Australia.<ref> New York Times, November 16, 2011</ref>
			:{{ping|Immanuelle}} I think that the short answer is yes, (the long answer is that it is not an explicit authority) but I haven't been doing AFC reviews. I think that the (unintended) standard for getting out of AFC is tougher than passing NPP patrol because the AFC reviewer is sort of saying "this article is overall fine" where in NPP patrol we are sort of saying "it's OK for an article on this topic to exist." If you have one that you'd like me to look at ping me and I'd be happy to and do my first AFC review. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:44, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
			::{{Ping|North8000}} Here is one such page that I have been having trouble with ]] ❤️💚💙 ] 18:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|Immanuelle}} That one has a few things that make it complicated. Let's say that it wasn't already at AFC and I ran across it as a harried NPP'er who has about '''5 minutes or less''' to review the article. (NPP is basicaly a case of about 20 reviewers trying to review about 500 articles per day) . I'd give the article a quick first read and then look at the references. There is (only) one paragraph on line. The other 2 references are to off-line books. ''There is nothing wrong with that''! However that leave me unable to verify suitable GNG coverage. Next I would try to read the article to understand what it is saying / to learn what I can from the topic. I must say that from a typical reader's standpoint, it is rough going. Throughout, your explanations utilize/depend on terms that the reader does not know. Many are linked, but IMO links are to provide ''additional'' info rather than to make the sentence understandable by a typical reader. So my recommendation would be to add a lot more plain English explanations. So I read the article (without reading/learning all of the linked articles) and really didn't get an understanding of the topic from reading it.....if I had, that would have helped me assess. So I'd google the topic. Didn't find any in-depth coverage but found enough to know that it's a real/legit topic and which sounds likely to have more substantial off-line coverage. So I'd take a gamble and give it a NPP pass. And I usually like to send the creator a note with a compliment or thanking them for their work. So, in my hypothetical scenario, I wasn't able to confirm that suitable GNG coverage existed, but took a guess/gamble that it does.
			:::For this particular article, an AFC reviewer has already declined it so me jumping in would be a case of saying that I'm using my guess to override their review.
			:::There are lots of possibilities here, too many to try to cover in my first post. Maybe a good next step is to ask for any thoughts of yours at this point? (as a prelude to discussing further) Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
			:::: Thank you. I’ll work on trying to make that one more comprehensible. What do you think about this one ]?] ❤️💚💙 ] 23:57, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
			:::::{{Ping|Immanuelle}} If I were to run across that article during new page patrol, I would pass it. But IMHO it has the same readability problem that I discussed above. A reader could not learn anything from just reading it unless they first know/learn the specialized terms than nearly every sentence is dependent on. Let me give you an example.
			:::::*'''Sentence dependent on knowledge of the terms:''' The nucleus of the atom holds together because the ] exceeds the ] force.
	Obama sent U.S. troops to ], ], ] and the ].<ref>, CBS News, February 22, 2012</ref>
			:::::*'''More explanatory...a person can learn something from reading it even if they do not know the meanings of the linked terms:''' Since the protons within a nucleus of an atom are positively charged particles, they ] force would make them repel each other, tending to make the nucleus fly apart. But at the close distances within the nucleus, the ] is even stronger, thus holding the nucleus together.
	Antiwar groups criticized Obama for planning to create a very pro-war cabinet. Sam Husseini of the Institute for Public Accuracy stated, "It's astonishing that not one of the 23 senators or 133 House members who voted against the war is in the mix."<ref>, Los Angeles Times, November 20, 2008</ref>
			:::::Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
	As a Senator, Obama voted in favor of funding the Iraq War.<ref>, Boston Globe, March 22, 2007</ref>
			::::::What do you think about this draft ]? Also for some reason the reply function is not working] ❤️💚💙 ] 06:22, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
	In March 2012, when Obama was talking to Russian President ], Obama made a ] when he stated, "On all these issues, but particularly ], this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space... This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."<ref>, ABC News, March 26, 2012</ref>
			:::::::I think your signature might be breaking it ] ❤️💚💙 ] 06:22, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	In December 2011, Obama agreed to sell nearly $30 billion of military ]s to Saudi Arabia.<ref>, New York Times, December 29, 2011</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 09:30, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
	Guantánamo Bay detention camp
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:13, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	Under President Obama, abuse of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay became even worse than it had been under President Bush.<ref>, Reuters, February 25, 2009</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 07:30, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
	Overseas Contingency Operation
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:45, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
			== Nice attempt to hide the truth. ==
	Obama had ], a key ] leader, killed.<ref>, BBC, September 30, 2011.</ref> However, because Awlaki was a U.S. citizen, and he was killed without ], Obama was accused of violating the U.S. Constitution.<ref>, aclu.org, September 30, 2011</ref><ref name = "NY Daily News September 30 2011">, by Ron Paul, New York Daily News, October 2, 2011</ref> U.S. Congessman ] (R-TX) said that Obama's actions might be an ] offense.<ref>, Politico, October 3, 2011</ref> Prior to the killing, ], the country's ], had stated to the ] that "Being a U.S. citizen will not spare an American from getting assassinated by military or intelligence operatives."<ref name = "NY Daily News September 30 2011"/>
			Your removal of the Buffy Sainte Marie update that she is not Indigenous was corrected. Nice try. ] (]) 08:56, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
	Gun control
			:At the time it was an unsourced BLP violation, and that was explained. As sources became available, I supported the addition. However, your making this post with false accusations (even after you saw ptherwise...that I supported putting it in once sourcing was provided) IS a big problem. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 10:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
	In ], the Obama administration ordered gun storeowners to illegally sell thousands of guns to criminals.<ref>, Forbes, September 28, 2011</ref>
			I posted a known fact. You removed it. You should have done your research before removing it...or did you? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:54, 31 October 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	Obama stated, "I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms."<ref>, Time magazine, June 26, 2008</ref> However, the ] gave Obama a rating of 'F' based on his voting record.<ref>, Fox News, September 24, 2008</ref>
			:You have a lot of things backwards. See previous response. Also ] and ] <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:20, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
			You have to admit what I posted was the truth and you removed that. At the time the truth was not available online as Buffy has spent 60 years (and the entire existence of the Internet) weaving her false story. Now Misplaced Pages is one of the only places where researchers can find the truth about Buffy. Encyclopedia Britannica (lies), PBS documentaries (lies), Numerous Major Award sites (lies) and pretty much the rest of the Internet and so called authorities have validated her lies. I am glad that numerous contributors updated her wikipedia page and you came to accept the truth, Buffy is a Pretendian. :( <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:17, 1 November 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			::You are oblivious to what I was saying but we ended up with something that was fine with both of us. So all's well that ends well. Happy editing! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 00:21, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
	Environment
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	After the ], Obama rejected offers of cleanup help from Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, the Republic of Korea, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations.<ref>, businessinsider.com, June 9, 2010</ref>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 11:30, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
	Social policy
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	In May 2008, Obama campaign spokesperson Ben LaBolt said that Obama would end ] raids on ] in states where it's legal.<ref>, San Francisco Chronicle, May 12, 2008</ref> However, in February 2010, DEA agents raided a medical marijuana grower in ] in ], a state where medical marijuana is legal. <ref>, aolnews.com, February 23, 2010</ref> Also in February 2010, DEA agents raided a medical marijuana dispensary in ] in ], a state where medical marijuana is legal.<ref>, Los Angeles Times, February 18, 2010</ref> Furthermore, in July 2010, the DEA raided at least four medical marijuana growers in ], California.<ref>, Associated Press, July 9, 2010</ref><ref>, Reason magazine, July 9, 2010</ref> Also in July 2010, the DEA raided a medical marijuana facility in ], California.<ref>, calpotnews.com, July 28, 2010</ref> Then in September 2010, the DEA conducted raids on at least five medical marijuana dispensaries in ] in ], a state where medical marijuana is legal.<ref>, September 8, 2010</ref> In 2011, the DEA conducted raids on medical marijuana in ], ] and ], all places where it is legal.<ref>, NPR, July 12, 2011</ref> In April 2012, the DEA carried out several raids on medical marijuana in ].<ref>, San Francisco Chronicle, April 3, 2012</ref>
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	Obama expanded the federal government's faith based programs which had been started by President George W. Bush.<ref>, New York Times, February 5, 2009</ref>
			== Request ==
	While Obama was a state Senator in Illinois, he used tax dollars to build 504 units of slum housing, which had mice and backed up sewage. Federal inspectors graded the condition of the housing so bad that the buildings faced demolition.<ref>, Boston Globe, June 27, 2008</ref>
			I've started a revamp of ].
	The Obama administration spent $1.6 million to restore graffiti that glorified communist murderers Che Guevara and Fidel Castro.<ref>, standwitharizona.com, January 17, 2012</ref>
			Please take a look and let me know if there are any essential techniques or must have tools that you think should be included.
	Obama approved putting 7 million pounds of "]" into school lunches - a substance that ] and other ]s have banned.<ref>, CBS News, March 8, 2012</ref>
			Thank you.
	] accused Obama of hypocrisy after he criticized ] for using crude and vulgar language to describe ], but did not criticize ] (who had donated one million to an Obama ]) for using the same kind of crude and vulgar language to describe ].<ref>, ABC News, March 8, 2012</ref>
			Sincerely, <span class="nowrap">&nbsp;&nbsp; &mdash; '']''&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> 06:39, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
	Health care reform
			{{Ping|Transhumanist}} What an interesting/ excellent page! I wouldn't know where to start regarding suggestions. My one thought is that it is written for people who have no knowledge in this specific area but sometimes presumes knowledge in it's explanations. Witness my unsuccessful experimentation (after reading it on that page) with how to make the daily tip appear at the top section. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:18, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
	In March 2007, Obama said of his health care plan, "I don’t think we’re going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There’s going to be, potentially, some transition process..."<ref>, Politico, August 4, 2009</ref><ref>, Breitbart, August 3, 2009</ref>
			: Very good feedback. Thank you. I wrote it to be copy/pasted from the viewed page, not the edit page. Do you think quotation marks would help? <span class="nowrap">&nbsp;&nbsp; &mdash; '']''&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> 07:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
			::{{Ping|Transhumanist}} Thanks! Suggest putting in what you just told me....copy from the viewed page, not the edit page. Also note that it's either one or the other...not both. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:56, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
	In September 2010, some insurance companies announced that in response to Obama's health care plan, they would end the issuance of new child-only policies.<ref>, CBS News, September 22, 2010</ref><ref>, Los Angeles Times, September 21, 2010</ref>
			==Daily tip - trying to figure out how to make this appear at the top ==
	In October 2010, Obama gave ] and 29 other organizations an exemption from some of the requirements of his health care plan.<ref>, CBS News, October 7, 2010</ref> Over time, more than 700 organizations were granted waivers, and the ] website published a list of these waiver recipients which can be read .
			I've added the code to your edit page immediately below. From here you can move it to wherever you want. <span class="nowrap">&nbsp;&nbsp; &mdash; '']''&nbsp;&nbsp; </span> 07:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
	In November 2010, ] announced that it would drop health insurance for the children of more than 30,000 low-wage home attendants. Mitra Behroozi, executive director of benefit and pension funds for 1199SEIU stated, "... new federal health-care reform legislation requires plans with dependent coverage to expand that coverage up to age 26... meeting this new requirement would be financially impossible."<ref>, Wall St. Journal, November 20, 2010</ref>
			{{totd}}
	U.S. Supreme Court Justice ] said that being forced to read Obama's 2,700 page health care reform law would would violate the ]'s prohibition against ].<ref>, Politico, March 28, 2012</ref>
			== Brownsea Island Scout camp Featured article review ==
	In March 2012, the Congressional Budget Office said that over the next decade, Obama's health care reform would cost twice as much as what Obama had promised.<ref>, Fox News, March 14, 2012</ref>
			I have nominated ] for a ]. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the ]. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are ].<!--Template:FARMessage--> ] (]) 20:50, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
	In March 2011, the New York Times reported that many health insurers had stopped issuing child-only policies in response to Obama's health care reform.<ref>, New York Times, March 31, 2011</ref>
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			== Railway station ==
	Despite having taught ] at one of the most ] in the country, in April 2012 Obama falsely claimed that the ] had never overturned any laws that had been passed by Congress.<ref>, Wall St. Journal, April 3, 2012</ref>
			Hi. I'm here to talk about what you did with ]. It's a mess. You cannot just change he name of article (Wierzbno station) and pretend its entirely new article. You didn't write anything about the railway, you didn't change the interlanguage link, and you didn't mention any other railway stations. Not to mention it's not even the first time you took upon yourself to "delete" article about minor railway station without any discussion.] (]) 12:20, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
	Education reform
			:{{Ping|Artemis Andromeda}} I was going to AFD the railway station article during NPP (IMO clearly fails wp:notability) but instead thought of using it to start an article on the rail line. I though another station article (with the same problem which I would have also AFD'd) which I thought was on the same rail line and planned to put material from both articles into the rail line article. I knew that it would temporarily be a mess, which is what you noted. Then I noticed that the second article was not on the same rail line. That is as far as I got. I think that an article on the rail line (including details and images on the stations) would work out excellently and survive. At this point, what would you prefer to do? Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
			:::Recapping, I was going to AFD the railway station article during NPP (IMO clearly fails wp:notability) but instead thought of using it to start an article on the rail line. There was another station article (with the same problem which I would have also AFD'd) which I thought was on the same rail line and planned to put material from both articles into the rail line article. I knew that it would temporarily be a mess, which is what you noted. Then I noticed that the second article was not on the same rail line. That is as far as I got. I think that an article on the rail line (including details and images on the stations) would work out excellently and survive. It turns out that the other station/article is not on this particular rail line. If I receive no response to my question below I plan to circle back and tidy the situation up a bit.<b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
			:: {{Ping|North8000}} Don't start messes you don't intend to fix. Tell me, whose now gonna go and write an entire article about Piaseczno Railway? Me? You? Some third person who will stumble onto it in the next 10 years? You cannot just make messy articles like this and hope somebody else will fix it.] (]) 15:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|Artemis Andromeda}} That's not an answer to my question, which seems a very reasonable one. In light of my response, what would like to happen next? Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC) <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
			:::Also, as a sidebar, you had numerous implied accusations like "don't intend" which are pretty creative, particularly in light of what I wrote. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
			:: If you wanted to delete the article, you should have had just report it for deletion on the notability basis. If you wanted to creat article about the Piaseczno Railway, you should have had just made a new article. Instead, you just changed the name, without changing any content in the article itself. It's now unencyclopedical, contins wrong categories, is still linked to Polish Misplaced Pages article about Wierzbno station, and talks only about this one station, and has basically no information about the railway line itself. You cannot just do that, and hope that somebody else will notice, and ever come to fix that, and write a proper article, because most of the times, nobody does (it's to niche to be notices).] (]) 19:50, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|Artemis Andromeda}} Again no answer to my very reasonable question. This is far simpler and easier to resolve than you seem to think. Again, what would like to happen next? <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:58, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
			== Request for feedback on two drafts ==
	While living in Chicago and Washington D.C., Obama expressed his true opinion of America's public education system by sending his own children to private schools.<ref>, Associated Press, November 21, 2008</ref>
			I have two drafts that I would like your feedback on
	Regarding school vouchers, in February 2008, Obama said, "If there was any argument for vouchers it was, all right, let's see if this experiment works, and then if it does, whatever my preconceptions, my attitude is you do what works for the kids."<ref>, nysun.com, February 15, 2008</ref> However, in March 2009, Obama signed legislation which brought an end to a successful voucher program for nearly 2,000 students in Washington D.C. Although the Washington D.C. public school district spends nearly $13,500 per student, and the vouchers for private schools were only $7,500 per student<ref>, Human Events, March 23, 2009</ref>, a federal study of the voucher program concluded that the voucher program was a significant success at providing students with a better education than that of the city's public schools.<ref>, ies.ed.gov</ref>
			* ]
	Wall Street reform
			* ]
			I feel both are currently in a good state but might need some improvement. I am planning on taking a break rather soon and hope I can get them through quickly before it ] ❤️💚💙 ] 20:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
	Although Obama claims to support the ] movement, in 2011 it was reported that he had raised more money from Wall St. than any other candidate during the last 20 years.<ref>, dailycaller.com October 10, 2011]</ref> In addition, as a Senator he voted in favor of the $700 billion Wall St. bailout.<ref></ref> Also, in October 2011, Obama hired Broderick Johnson, a longtime Wall St. lobbyist, to be his new senior campaign adviser. Johnson had worked as a lobbyist for JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Fannie Mae, Comcast, Microsoft, and the oil industry.<ref>, dailycaller.com, October 25, 2011</ref>
			:{{Ping|Immanuelle}} I was off the grid for a few days and it will be a couple days before I get caught back up in Misplaced Pages. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:18, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
			===Owari clan article===
	In March 2012, Obama announced a new set of ] for ]s who had caused the ].<ref>, Bloomberg News, March 5, 2012</ref>
			====As an experienced NPP reviewer (and more recent AFC reviewer)====
	In early 2012, Obama held a fundraiser where Wall St. investment bankers and hedge fund managers each paid $35,800 to attend.<ref>, Bloomberg News, February 15, 2012</ref>
			{{Ping|Immanuelle}} As an experienced NPP reviewer (and more recent AFC reviewer) I would pass it. The main criteria is "should this exist as a separate article in Misplaced Pages?", with wp:notability being the main question. There are no obvious GNG references to confirm this. However, taking into account the (very old) period and the more obscure topic, the apparent type and quantity of references, the large diversity of footnoted coherent content developed from the references, I would make a judgement call and pass it. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
			====General article notes====
	Civil liberties
			From my limited knowledge of you past article, this looks much more readable and substantial that many of your previous ones. By readable" I've seen previous ones that as basicaly unreadable by a typical reader. In nearly every sentence they rely on knowledge of unfamiliar terms to understand what the sentence says. This article has far fewer of such problems. Alo0s it is more substantial and more content and source that your typical one.<b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
			====As a typical AFC reviewer====
	In December 2011, ] executive director Anthony D. Romero criticized Obama for signing a bill that gave the U.S. government the power to indefinitely detain U.S. citizens without any charges being filed or any trial taking place.<ref>, aclu.org, December 31, 2011</ref>
			As a typical (more cautious) AFC reviewer I might fail it or skip reviewing it. I'd see no clear cut GNG sources; it would take days of research to see if any of those sources confirm GNG compliance, especially since you did not include page numbers and the sources are off-line. And since you've had some troubles at the notice boards, I would be particularly cautious and err on the safe side. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
	In May 2011, Obama signed a renewal of the ].<ref>, Washington Post, May 27, 2011</ref>
			===Yamato no Kuni no Miyatsuko article ===
	In January 2012, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled against the Obama administration for having put a GPS tracking device on someone's car without having a warrant.<ref>, Reuters, January 23, 2012</ref>
			This article is a bit weaker in all of the areas I discussed above in the Owari section. I'll need more looking at it before I could say anything. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
	}}
			:To a typical reader, this article is nearly unreadable. Nearly every sentence relies on knowledge on some obscure term to even know what the sentence says. Having an internal link to a term does not change that, a reader should not have to read another article just to figure out what each sentences says. Internal links are generally more "for further reading". Also, you are creating redlinks for plan English words where the target of the redlink is not even in the sentence. I would not consider these items grounds to reject an article, but having an article with a severe problem in this area is a significant problem. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
			::{{ping|North8000}} I tried to fix the ] article. I see both of them were recently accepted. I noticed somehow the reply function broke so I am unsure what happened (unsigned by Immanuelle)
			:::{{Ping|Immanuelle}} Cool. Hope my comments helped even if they were friendly-blunt. Wish you the best and happy editing! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:42, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
			::::{{Ping|North8000}} Yeah they were helpful. Yamato no Kuni no Miyatsuko is pretty difficult I think to explain and I will want to do further rewriting of it to make it clearer. btw are your pronouns he/him or is wikipedia just not set up weith them? I thought you had a pic and were a girl.] ❤️💚💙 ] 21:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
			:::::{{Ping|Immanuelle}} Cool. I have on my user page "I live in the USA and (to simplify the pronoun question for folks) am male." but beyond that I don't participate in stating pronouns. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:57, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
			]] ❤️💚💙 ] 01:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|Immanuelle}} Nope, just an image that I liked due to a combination of several things. I'm a lot older and uglier than that. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 03:08, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
	] (]) 17:30, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
			:@] I think your signature is broken since I can reply to my comments but not yours ] ❤️💚💙 ] 01:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	:Yes, the article clearly has a POV problem. Rather than try to tackle that whole thing, my comment was that instead of mass removals of materials and references, that those should be reviewed individually. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:50, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 23:30, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
	* I have closed the discussion you started here as unhelpful. You really should not be using an article talk page to make a broadside attack on the editors there. As you probably know as an experienced editor it is up to anyone proposing lots of changes to gather consensus, not up to everyone else to justify every single objection to a mass edit. There are two more issues you may not be aware of that apply to this article in particular. First, the Obama articles were placed on article probably several years ago in connection with a massive amount of problematic behavior. Accusations of bad faith were one of the problems, and people are especially concerned about that here. Second, the edits you are defending are made by a sockpuppet of a banned user, who has been returning every few weeks with a new account to make them again. He's also the editor who visited your page above, and mine recently. He's playing us, in a good natured way. I like the guy and find him quite personable, and wish there were a way he could fit in here. But as things went there's no way his edits will be considered at all, much less incorporated into the article. If you look at the history you'll see that an admin has even deleted them from the article history. Hope that helps. - ] (]) 15:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	::Thanks for the post. Actually, in the last few days alone "controversy" type additions by 2 editors were deleted. And I was commenting on actions of editors, and even that was on what's happening there in general, not on any specific one. I didn't understand your sentence "the Obama articles were placed on article probably several years ago" possibly there was a typo in it? Subject to those few thoughts, thanks for the info on the background there and situaiotn there. I do find the article to have a severe POV problem, but right now I don't intend to spend time there. To keep my sanity, I limit myself to being active on only 1 or 2 controversial articles at a time, and this one would put me over my self-imposed limit. Sincerley, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:16, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 01:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
	::: is a violation of talk page guidelines. It is an attack on fellow Wikipedians, and as such it must be refactored or deleted. -- ] (]) 21:34, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	::::It is a comment on the article. It is NOT an attack on any people. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:36, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Everyone else disagrees with you. -- ] (]) 21:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
	::::::What I see is a couple of people looking for a way to stifle criticism of article CONTENT. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:44, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::What you're seeing, apparently, is ] in any editor that disagrees with you (which is ''every'' editor so far). Sorry, but you just can't leave stuff like that on article talk pages and expect it to last very long. If you have specific changes you want to propose to the article, feel free to do so. But so far you've done nothing but disparage editors, articles and wikipedia in general. --] (]) 22:32, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::You must be looking at material by somebody else. Mine criticized CONTENT of THAT ONE ARTICLE. And later, I indicated the refactoring BEHAVIOR is improper. And suggested improvements. If you assert something beyond that, please be specific. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:55, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
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	== April 2012 ==
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:13, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
	<nowiki>]</nowiki> Your recent editing history at ] shows that you are currently engaged in an ]. '''Being involved in an edit war can result in your being ]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the ], which states that an editor must not perform more than three ] on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
			== ] ==
	To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's ] to work toward making a version that represents ] among editors. You can post a request for help at a relevant ] or seek ]. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary ]. <!-- Template:uw-3rr --> &ndash;&nbsp;] (]) 23:30, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
			FYI this was undeleted at REFUND recently due to it being a soft-deletion. Just a courtesy heads-up given you were the last AfD nominator, and may wish to re-nominate. Cheers, ] (]) 20:31, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
	:That is nonsense. You are improperly refactoring and deleting at the talk page, and you even deleted the notice of such as "vandalism". Also quite silly to use a "please use talk page" template for something that is occurring at the talk page. Please undo what you did or I intend to report. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:53, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
	The typo in my friendly message above should read "article probation", not "article probably". Here's a link: ]. It hasn't been invoked much lately, but if the editing environment on Obama articles devolves as we head into the American general election soon it could come back. And the editor I was referring to had an account, Grundle2000, that he operated a while before getting banned from the project. He keeps a laundry list of derogatory factoids about Obama that's better written every time he posts that wall of text here. I mentioned that I find the guy charming and funny, but others are a lot less charitable. In any event rants, trolling, things that devolve into personal attacks and bickering, etc.., are routinely deleted from Obama-related talk pages although I've come to favor closing / archiving. You appear to be a level-headed good faith editor of some standing, but it's hard to see your post on the talk page as anything but a rant against other editors, and that sort of thing along with trolling, vandalism, and participation from sockpuppets is routinely deleted from the page. I personally prefer closing or archiving discussions that are unproductive or have devolved but others delete things as you can see. I appreciate your friendly response and I'm not going to get involved in any reporting or dispute if I can help it, but if things devolve into a flameout that's likely to result in a block on your account (and perhaps some others too). You have a clean record there so best to keep it that way. I think you may have violated ] by repeatedly inserting an inflammatory talk page heading after others deleted it, in which case the only effective way to avoid a block is to announce clearly that you don't intend any further reverts and just walk away, at least from this exact dispute at this exact moment. They're right on the process, btw. Whereas ] discourages if not prohibits people from altering each other's talk messages, headings are for organizational/navigation and not expressive purposes and are specificlly excluded from that. Whether it's okay to simply delete an entire talk page comment judged to be grossly inappropriate, off topic, unhelpful, is a matter of some disagreement but it happens all the time in practice. Best not to fight to keep a comment you really shouldn't have made in the first place. I'm not going to go in the entire history, but accusing editors of working for the Obama campaign, being Obama fans, and writing a "hagiography" (that word in particular) is the exact style of one of the more prolific and troublesome sockpuppet editors so it hits a nerve. Unless you have a particular wish to push that point, I can't see anything good coming out of it. Please forgive my wall of text, I just hope you don't become the first casualty of a new Misplaced Pages Obama war. Best, - ] (]) 00:55, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
	::Thanks for the post and info. I don't agree with your characterization of my edits there, and there was clearly no 3RR violation. But I think I'll appreciate and take your advice, not report Muboshgu and let this cool down a bit. I came here originally because this article was at a notice board, I think that it was because that a group of editors was by actions saying that wp:npov can be overidden by consensus. And that is sort of how it looks at that article. One point which may be important to you, I did NOT use the word "hagiography". I did say that the article looks like it was written by the re-elect Obama campaign committee, but I didn't say "working for the Obama campaign, being Obama fans,". The latter may be just how you interpreted my comment, but your "hagiography" note seems to clearly indicate you may be mixing up and taking what somebody else wrote as mine. Thanks again. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:48, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
	:::You're right on a few counts there. To continue my war metaphor, jumping into a place like that you can get caught in the crossfire. Sure we do disagree on some things, but as long as editors can get along and stay productive that's what it's all about. Thanks for keeping it courteous. - ] (]) 05:44, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
			{{Ping|Daniel}} Thanks for the post and heads up. My nomination was just under trying to do my NPP job properly. It's still tagged for wp:notability and awaiting another NPP review. I might just let a second set of eyes review it. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
	==Hi==
	How you been? Want help archiving your talk page? ] ] 02:00, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
			== Merry Christmas! ==
	:Thanks and nice to have you back. So far I sort of keep my whole history here (except for two specialty archives) here. But not set in stone, it's just what I've been doing so far. Open to opinions. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:07, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;"
	== Boy Scouts Of America ==
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2024!'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
			----
			'''Hello North8000, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this ]. Spread the ] by wishing another user a ] and a ], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2024. <br />Happy editing,'''<br />
			] (]) 16:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
			''{{resize|96%|Spread the love by adding {{tls|Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.}}''
	Hi ''North8000'' I'd like to discuss the Membership controversies section of the BSA Page. The section seems to be incomplete, and there are recent developments that should be reflected within the page. I don't know the best way to approach this, and any advice would be appreciated. Cheers! ] (]) 04:53, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
			|} ] (]) 16:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
	:Great. Happy to talk about it; any topic, any venue. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 09:54, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
			==Thank you for participating in AfC November 2023 Backlog Drive==
			{| class="barnstar" style="border:1px solid gray; background:#fdffe7;"
			|-
			|rowspan="2" style="padding-right:5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size:1.65em; padding:0; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Working Man's Barnstar'''
	== PLC ==
			|-
			|style="border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thank you for your participation in the Articles for Creation's ]! You made a total of 40 reviews, for a total of 67.5 points. ] (]) 06:50, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks!
	I've blanked this, even on talk - it was a copyvio of
	http://www.engineersgarage.com/articles/plc-programmable-logic-controller?page=4
			== Happy holidays! ==
	] (]) 13:47, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
			<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:red; background-color:#fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">]
	:Cool. Good catch. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:50, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
			] (]) is wishing you ]! This greeting (and season) promotes ] and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user ], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year! <br />
	== Verifiability mediation - choosing final drafts ==
			''Spread the cheer by adding {{tls|Happy holidays}} to their talk page with a friendly message.''
	Hello North. This is a note to let you know about a discussion I have just started at the verifiability mediation. It is aimed at making a final decision about the drafts we use in step 6, so that we can move on to drafting the RfC text in step 7. If possible, I would like everyone to comment over at ]. Thank you! — <b style="text-shadow:0.15em 0.15em 0.1em #555; color: #194D00; font-style: oblique; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">] <sup>]</sup></b> 04:09, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
			</div>
			] (]) 06:50, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
			== Good article reassessment for ] ==
	== Notice of Mediation Request ==
			] has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the ]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ]] 23:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
	Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "]". Thank you.<!--Template:DRN-notice--> <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:21, 30 April 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
			== ] Awards for 2023 ==
	== FYI ==
	] (FYI only, no action required) --] (]) 01:48, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
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	== Wtshymanski ==
	With reference to the ], I note that you have added some content. I also note that you have stated on the talk page that you support what people have said but feel that "... signing on to all of them them seemed a bit heavy for me". Unfortunately, that is the way that the RfCs operate (cumbersome but there you are). When the request is examined, consideration is taken of which editors agree with what observations (doubtless here: more is better!).
	Regards, ] (]) 14:53, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the note. In order for me to weigh in heavy duty on an individual's general conduct (as those do) I require myself to have extensive experience with /review of the individual to be absolutely sure of myself. Doubly so with me not knowing the ramifications of a finding in that forum. This is an usually cautions standard but the one that I live by. I'll see what I can do there which is consistent with this. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:47, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
	::FYI it was my impression that ] is more knowledgeable than I on this situation. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:15, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
	:That sounds like a fair enough attitude to adopt. ] (]) 07:16, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
	== Formal mediation has been requested ==
	{{Ivmbox
	| <!---MedComBot-Do-not-remove-this-line-Notified-SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION--->The ] has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. ] is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the ], the ], and the ], '''please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate.''' Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 14 May 2012.
	Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.<br>
	<small>Message delivered by ] (]) on ] of the Mediation Committee. 13:42, 7 May 2012 (UTC)</small>
	}}
	== Request for mediation rejected ==
	{{Ivmbox
	| The ] concerning SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION, to which you were listed as a party, has been ]. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the ], which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the ] of the Committee, or to the ]. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see ].
	For the Mediation Committee, ] (]) 16:11, 7 May 2012 (UTC)<br>
	<small>(Delivered by ], ] the Mediation Committee.)</small>
	}}
	:Good result. It was immensely inappropriate and an attempted mis-use of that process as well as forum shopping. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:37, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
	== Welcome back! ==
	Welcome back! --] (]) 23:56, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks! I learned a lot while I was gone overseas and am happy to be back. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
	::What Tryptofish said. ;) Glad you got back safely! — ''''']''''' <sup>(])</sup> 14:53, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
	==Starved Rock==
	{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"		{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|]|]}}		|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ]
	|rowspan="2" |		|rowspan="2" |
	|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Photographer's Barnstar'''		|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" |
			'''The New Page Reviewer's Iron Award'''
	|-		|-
	|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | ] is just excellent. ] (]) 06:59, 29 May 2012 (UTC)		|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray; width:100%;" | For over 360 article reviews during 2023. Well done! Keep up the good work and thank you! ''']''' ] 02:50, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
	|}		|}
			== ] ==
			Hello {{u|North8000}}, as described at the , I have removed some examples of unproductive remarks by all mentioned editors in ]. Best regards, ] (]) 20:38, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
	Was the dig site the rock itself? ] (]) 06:59, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
			:I don't agree that "I think it's time for you to mellow out. That would be much more pleasant for everybody, including you. " is an unproductive remark. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
			== 2024 ==
	:Thanks! On your question, yes it was, on the top of the rock. Taken from up in a tree. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 09:46, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
			<div style="margin: auto; max-width: 32em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba( 192, 192, 192, 0.75 ); border-radius: 1em; border: 1px solid #a7d7f9; margin-bottom: 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em 1em; color: black;" class="ui-helper-clearfix">
	::Nice. I assume you worked on the dig, is that fair? Are you an anthropologist or archaeologist? This photo is of great value, in my opinion, to the article and the Misplaced Pages project as a whole. It's exactly the kind of content it was born to collate. Thanks again. ] (]) 02:52, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
			{{User QAIbox
	:::Thanks! I'll answer by email if you have it enabled. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:06, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
			| image = Abel Fest Köthen.jpg
			| image_upright = 0.9
			}}
			<center>
			<br /><br />]
			'''] ] ]'''
	== Badge of shame ==
			]
	Dickish move putting that POV badge of shame on ], particularly as there has been no talk page discussion about it. Basically it's your ] moment. -- ] (]) 20:51, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
			<br /><br />
			</center></div>
			Thank you for your comments on ANI about perspective (while I slept)! As you know, I have a DYK on the Main page, but ] would be different, about ], - . -- ] (]) 22:43, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
	:That characterization applies more to the comment that you just made. I gave a sound basis for restoring the tag in the edit summary. And yes, the HAS been talk page discussion about it. And as I noted, the situation is so bad there that people have been even deleting (and edit warring to do so) raising of concerns on the talk page. As I noted, I originally came there from a notice board where someone indicated that people at the article were saying that voting of the regulars there trumped wp:npov. This is the worst article I've ever seen in that respect. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:49, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|Gerda Arendt}} My pleasure and they were well deserved! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 00:04, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
	== I think you might be interested in this. ==
			:: Thank you! - On the Main page: ] who ] --] (]) 20:33, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
			{{User QAIbox
			| image = Hazel, Ehrenbach.jpg
			| image_upright = 0.8
			| bold = ] · ] · ]
			}}
			:: Yesterday was ], with related music. - I'm on vacation - see places. --] (]) 22:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
			:::{{ping|Gerda Arendt}} Thanks for that interesting note! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:43, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
			== ''Administrator Conduct Case 2024-1: Mzajac'' opened ==
	Hi there! I think you might be interested in . ] (]) 19:32, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
	:I advise you to ignore this editor. I'm 99% certain it's {{userlinks|Grundle2600}} evading his ban again. -- ] (]) 20:11, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
	::And I'm 100% certain that it's Grundle2600. And I suggest that you do read the link. ] (]) 20:39, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
			You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at ]. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at ]. '''Please add your evidence by January 30, 2024, which is when the evidence phase closes.''' You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, ]. For a guide to the arbitration process, see ]. For the Arbitration Committee, ] <sup>'']'' &#124; '']''</sup> 17:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
	== Verifiability mediation - choosing the RfC structure ==
			<!-- Message sent by User:Dreamy Jazz@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Administrator_Conduct_Case_2024-1:_Mzajac/Update_list&oldid=1196172026 -->
			== NPOVN ==
	Hello North8000! You are cordially invited to a ] in which we will be deciding once and for all what combination of drafts and general questions we should have in the RfC. We would love to hear your input, so why not hop over and let us know your views when you next have the chance. Thanks! — ''''']''''' <sup>(])</sup> 16:12, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
			This is turning into quite a little . I was considering a hat, but I think that honor should go to someone else. Do you have any further suggestions? Cheers. ] (]) 02:59, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
	== Presidency of Barack Obama ==
			:{{Ping|Darknipples}} I have some ideas but I'm buried in RL for the next 2 hours. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 17:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
			::No worries, thanks for looking in, I do appreciate it. ] (]) 19:14, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
			:::My pleasure. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:25, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
			== A barnstar for you! ==
	Your edit comment "Thought it has it, '''this does not even require consensus'''...extensive coverage in sources, removing it is a wp:npov violation." is EXACTLY what I said days ago in the Rfc. I would also add that any removal of the content going forward would constitute ]. Good luck! I am getting disgusted with the comments on the page so I am taking it off my watchlist. --] (]) 18:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
	:That article is about the worst I've ever seen regarding POV. There's even been warring to remove talk page contents that note the POV problem! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
	::I know. The problem is that everyone is waiting on a "consensus" that will NEVER be reached. --] (]) 18:40, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
	:::That's a part of the double standard that has been used to keep the article in the bad shape that it's in. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:06, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	== Your incivility and personal attacks against other editors ==
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	::* ''And now you are trying to further engangle it by reinserting the tangled bundel and following that with other edits. North8000 (talk) 17:50, 12 June 2012 (UTC)''
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
	Please cease with the tendentiousness, North ... I'm not in the mood to put up with it. If you are just having a bad day, we can overlook the sniping and unwarranted impugning of a fellow editor's motives, but I'm just one step away from raising your actions on an appropriate noticeboard. Let's not go there. Regards, ] (]) 18:12, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
			|-
	:::Xeno, your "mood" is not relevant, nor is 9000's private life/day. the MASSIVE bold edit you made was undone, which means you are in the "d" phase, which has not produced consensus yet, but i encourage you to continue, perhaps make each edit separately, instead of several at once, lest your wheat be thrown out with the chaff. ] (]) 18:17, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
	::::Everything I've said is relevant, and I've made no such "MASSIVE bold edits", DS1st. If you have something productive to offer, please don't hesitate to do so. ] (]) 20:17, 12 June 2012 (UTC)		|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for your effort and contributions to Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 23:27, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
			|}
	:::Xenophrenic, as you know, what you just wrote here is a complete misrepresentation of what is happening there. I have been commenting on your behavior there. And, as context, I've have gotten to know your approach quite well, after a significant amount of observation and interaction over an extended period of time. Based on who has done what there, what you are threatening would be a near-certian boomerang. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:06, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|HeraTheGoddess}} Thanks! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 17:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
	::::''"I have been commenting on your behavior there."'' --North8000
	::::''"Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Misplaced Pages. Comment on content, not on the contributor." --]
	::::North8000, as you are fully aware, what I wrote above is spot on, and my request to you is reasonable. Impugning an editor's motives is against policy; I'll reiterate my request that you not do so again. I have made several edits consisting of, and with the sole intent of, article improvement. If those same edits made in sequence in some way also hinder your ability to revert-war, I don't see that as a great concern, nor do I see it as avoidable. May I suggest that you instead edit specific sections that you find problematic, or in need of improvement, rather than implement wholesale reverts that inevitibly wipe away the productive efforts of several editors? Having interacted with you extensively over quite some time, I find my patience for the game-playing and tendentiousness has about reached its limits, and noticeboards seem the only recourse. If you plan to persist, based on your misplaced hopes that you can instigate a "boomerang" effect, I think you will be sorely disappointed - and I recommend against it. Why can't we work collaboratively instead? Sincerely, ] (]) 20:17, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
	:::::The other stuff is more of the same misrepresentations and I'll resist commenting on it. And instead I'll respond only to your "Why can't we work collaboratively instead?". If you really mean that, then thank you very much for asking that, and the answer is yes, I'd very much like to do that and get into that mode. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:36, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
			== Group Otte ==
	== Verifiability mediation - to protect, or not to protect ==
			I replaced the notability tags you added to Group Otte with an expand German tag. When I was looking for additional sources I found the de.wikipedia article and the German name for the group. The de.wikipedia article has several German language sources in addition to the 3 or 4 now in the English article. Let me know if you still think it needs the tags. ] (]) 18:05, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
	Hello again North8000. Do you think the upcoming verifiability RfC should use a system of protection and transclusion, as was found in the recent ], or should we just keep the entire RfC unprotected? There are good arguments both for and against, and at the moment we are at a stalemate. Could you give your opinion on the matter? The discussion thread is ]. Best — ''''']''''' <sup>(])</sup> 14:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
	::I'd be happy to do that. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:41, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
			{{Ping|Ben Azura}} Cool. Thanks for your work. I marked it as reviewed. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 23:13, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
	== Fadil Husayn Salih Hintif article ==
			== Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service ==
	This article on ]
	was very heavily vandalized. I encourage you to return in a few days.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ], and &#32;at ], and &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 07:32, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
	When you left your comment you wrote:
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	FWIW I think you are mistaken about that. ] (]) 22:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 16:30, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post and info. I recheck what I said, and also check back in a few days. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:51, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
	::I rechecked, and you're right, although the mistake was easy to make, because the first link in the references was to a Misplaced Pages article. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll revise my comment. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:56, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
	== Just a thought ==		== Consistent reviewing query ==
			Hi, it looks like you are only interested in reviews done after 2023. I've the query to support this. The new query runs much faster (14s vs 325s) and also gives much less results which would make your post-processing easier too. Please fork it. -] (]) 03:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
	Hi, North8000. Re , I'm genuinely sorry if I've said anything on that page or elsewhere that you found objectionable. In making the proposal I posted yesterday, my hope (as I stated explicitly) was to break the cycle of post-and-response that has been plaguing that page and causing friction and bad feeling. Insomnesia promptly shot that to hell by providing a completely unnecessary opinion in an inappropriate place, and you compounded it by responding. We all could use a break from what's been going on, and the only way I know of to make that happen is simply ''not to respond''. By definition, someone always gets the last word, and I think it is a mark of levelheadedness and maturity to let the other guy (whoever he or she may be) have the (dubious) honors.
			:{{Ping|MPGuy2824}} Thanks. I figured that we need to have it start somewhere, and in order to serve it's purpose, where interested people can be in and keep themselves in Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:20, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
			::BTW if we went back farther, there would be only one person in the running. So we're trying to create more folks doing that. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	One related point. Whether you appreciate it or not, I am going to what ''I'' consider extraordinary lengths to assume good faith on your part and to take your concerns seriously. It's clear to me that more than one editor who shares my view about the state of the article is viewing the situation more adversarially than I am and would prefer to pursue formal dispute resolution right away. My position is that we ought to back off and give you some breathing room first, and offer you a chance to make your case without four or five editors piling on to cry "bullshit" every time you add something to the talk page. If you'd like to take advantage of such an opportunity, I think that would be great, and I promise I'd consider whatever you proposed as rationally and fairly as I could. If not, well, you've been around here long enough to know how formal dispute resolution goes: whatever the end result, the process is never pleasant. Do you want that? I do not. ] (]) 23:28, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 20:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
	:Hello Rivertorch. Thanks for the post. I think that a thorough response would take a few thousand words, and would be a useful discussion if you cared to. Until / if then the short answer.....I was already at a place that 90% matches your idea, the only difference being that I might just mostly give up and go away. In my thoughts there have been three possible routes during the last few weeks.
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
	:#The way it really ''should'' happen. ''For the purposes of the talk page discussion'' acknowledge that the other opinion (that "phobia" means phobia) significantly exists, as ''everybody'' there knows. The material to this effect is somewhat already in the article, and could easily be expanded, sourced, even the majority of the dictionaries (those that they have selectively ignored) buttress this. (Incidentally, far more sourcing than the zero given for their assertion (that their view is the only view) that they have built 80% of this article on.) And an immense amount of people have said this on the talk page, continuously since day one of the article's existence. And then decide to fix the article accordingly, bringing the wording in line with wp:npov. It's clear that the group there does not want to have this discussion and are using all of the usual tactics to avoid the discussion and denigrate my effort.
	:#Find and put in sourced material explicitly establishing that that other viewpoint specifically exists. At which point it would become clear that 80% of the article, as worded, is a clear NPOV violation, making it more likely that it would get fixed by me or somebody else.
	:#Give up on this particular effort, and work on the big picture fix instead. Nearly every Misplaced Pages article on a controversial subject ("controversial" meaning when there is a real world tussle going on regarding that subject) is in really bad shape with no near-term hope of recovery. The cause/enabler of this problem is policies and guidelines that #1 are easily mis-used or #2 have significant gaps in them. And so the big picture solution is to get those fixed, and to put my efforts there. ] has some of my thoughts / plans on that.
			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	:I gave up on #1, and so will do #2 or #3 (more likely #3) both of which involve dis-engagement at this point. Again, thank you very much for your post.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 18:30, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
	:Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:45, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
			== Repeat !voting ==
	::If I may say something. I think that we should just add fear to the definition. I think that most editors do agree that fear of homosexuals is definately homophobia. What I don't agree with and other editors seem not to agree with is that you say that discrimination, opposition or stereotypes isn't. So as a meeting halfway resolution I suggest we just add that homophobia includes fear to the lede.-] (]) 11:24, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
			You've now double-voted on at least two proposals at ] (in one case twice for the same position, in another case twice for different positions). --] (]) 22:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
	:::I'm sorry. I didn't realize it already said that (stupid me). But please North8000 try and understand this issue is a controversial one but it isn't the same as say the controversy on evolution or the controversy on whether the president should have to have been born in the United States. This is an issue that affects people. Real people. And whether it is 1% 5% or 10% of the population that is alot of people. I agree that homophobia is the wrong term but what is more important is not the definition but the way it is used. How many people have lost their jobs, friends, families and even their very lives. Here is what I can tell you. I go to a meeting every wednesday. In the last 3 weeks we lost 4 people from our meeting. 3 committed suicide and 1 was murdered. They all died for their gender identity and I've almost lost my life because of it as well. Now tell me, if sexual orientation or gender identity were a choice why would someone choose a culture that put them in so much danger? Why would so many people seek out false treatments to become straight or cisgender? And most importantly why would they kill themselves over it? Thanks for listening. -] (]) 11:35, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|JayBeeEll}} Thanks. I'll go look and fix. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 01:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
	::::Thanks for sharing that. What a horrendous and gut-wrenching situation. I mentor a lot of people, several of that orientation in and out of the closet and with the related challenges. The fact that, in Misplaced Pages, I often, for article quality / neutrality purposes, lock horns with people of my same real-world POV and take the side of people who have an opposite real-world POV to mine probably confused you. I DON'T believe that it is a choice. Stifled research (which neither side likes the results of) indicates that it is generally not a choice. And I am for societal acceptance and normalization of homosexuality. I'm not for the nasty tactics being used, nor for the reverse discrimination that usually comes along with / is coming with governmental action on things, but I am for societal normalization and acceptance. BTW, villainizing folks who feel otherwise and their views (e.g. falsely calling any opposition to what they consider to be bad behavior a "phobia" term or equating opposition to a behavior to "hatred" of the individual) only stokes and prolongs the conflict and works against the cause of folks who use those terms as bludgeons. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:15, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
			::It's hard to keep track with a gigantic page with about 40 proposals.<b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 03:45, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
			::: No kidding! --] (]) 17:57, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
			::::I felt better when I saw that I gave edge case answers ("weak ...." and "Neutral") on the one where I had different positions! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
			::::: Haha, indeed. In one of them it had been fully 3 weeks in between, I think very understandable. It does look to me like you still have two oppose votes in proposal 4 and two supports in 16, though. --] (]) 19:25, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
			::::::Thanks. I fixed. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:32, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	::I wasn't intending to say anything more here, and I particularly didn't want to carry the substance of the dispute over to your talk page, but since you think it would be a "useful discussion" I'm reluctant to close the door on that. Tell you what: based on the "short answer" you laid out above plus some of the comments you made at Talk:Homophobia and your reply here to Rainbowofpeace, let me tell you my thoughts on the matter and then, if you still think further discussion would be useful, I'm willing to give it a go (up to a point—much of my on-wiki time is likely to be otherwise occupied with ] in the near future). In all fairness, I should say up front that, given what appears to be a fundamental difference in understanding between you and me on several key points relating to language and Misplaced Pages policy, I'm a little dubious it will get us anywhere.<p>Most of us Wikipedians are anonymous, so our real-world points of view on can only be inferred from the patterns of our edits or by taking one another at our word when we choose to reveal our convictions. While it's interesting to think about, it doesn't really matter because our real-world points of view shouldn't matter here. I think all of us who try to follow policy have at times found ourselves in the position of defending content we dislike or opposing content we do like. While I found that awkward when I was newbie, I really don't anymore; over time, as I gained more experience with WP:NOR and WP:NPOV and the way they're applied, recognizing original research or non-neutral wording gradually become more or less second nature to me, and I grew to dislike seeing it wherever it cropped up and in whatever context. I don't know what your experience has been, but I think it's odd that your reading of policy is so very different from mine. Make no mistake: if I thought ] violated a core policy in any significant way, I wouldn't hesitate to say so. I ''don't'' see a violation there.<p>You say that "'phobia' means phobia". Of course it does, but the article in question isn't ]—it's '']''], its title a compound word whose principal meaning has little or nothing to do with the word "phobia". The English language is replete with words that don't mean literally what their combined elements might lead one to believe they mean. Consider "butterfly", which isn't a fly and has no easily discerned connection to butter, or "pineapple", which has only the must superficial resemblance to either the pine (cone) or the apple. More to the point, consider the directly analogous "xenophobia" (literally "fear of strangers"), a word in common usage for decades that somehow manages not to arouse outrage despite its generally being used to mean an irrational dislike of foreigners. More than 50 years ago, ] wrote that "the language is perpetually in flux: It is a living stream, shifting, changing, receiving new strength from a thousand tributaries, losing old forms in the backwaters of time." In recent years the language has been changing faster than ever: new terms are coined, neologisms become mainstream, and meanings take and lose precedence or fall entirely by the wayside. That many such changes accompany shifts in cultural norms is inevitable, and it's hardly surprising that some people are bewildered or angered by them: they see linguistic changes as coming to symbolize changes to the status quo to which they object. The word "gay" is an excellent example of this, but that battle was lost long ago, so they've moved on to other words, such as "homophobia". That there are people who think that word is misused isn't in question. However, in order to mention their point of view in the article, it would be necessary to demonstrate that there is something noteworthy about it (e.g., that controversy over the word has received significant coverage in the popular media, that it has been discussed in academic journals, that ] figures have written about it, and so on); otherwise, we are indeed looking at a WP:NPOV violation in the form of undue weight.<p>It seems extraordinarily clear to me (1) that the word "homophobia" is widely used to indicate a negative attitude (i.e., a dislike or antagonism or something similar) towards homosexuality or gay people and (2) that other usages of the word are rare. My view of this is supported by everything from simple Google searches to searches of scholarly materials to six of the seven most common general reference dictionaries (I don't own a copy of the seventh, and it is unavailable online), three of which don't mention fear at all in their entry for the word. (The three that do mention fear also refer to hatred, antipathy, aversion, and discrimination.) Of course, dictionaries do tend to retain older meanings long after they've passed out of common usage. Not every concept contained in dictionaries is worthy of mention in a Misplaced Pages article. <p>You wrote that "there is a battle to try to brand any disdain for, opposition to, or opposition to the societal normalization of homosexuality as a 'phobia'". I have two responses to that. First, it's not being branded a phobia; it's being branded ''homophobia'', which is something quite different. Second, who is engaged in this battle? Where is it taking place? If there is indeed a battle, there must be evidence of it.<p>You also wrote: "the core of my case is simply that that particular definition is ''controversial'' in many places". If it's controversial in many places, this will have been written about; notable controversies always are. I don't doubt that many people don't ''like'' the definition, but that doesn't constitute a controversy.<p>Shifting gears a bit, you wrote: "The core of my argument is that there is an unsourced assertion repeated many times in the article that the view that 'all opposition to homosexuality is homophobia' is the ONLY view". Actually, the article doesn't make that assertion even once. It quite properly doesn't mention other views because no one has added (or proposed adding) any verifiable content to the contrary.<p>You've accused me and others of misstating your objection or sidestepping your point, but in repeatedly looking over what you've said on the talk page again I keep coming to the same conclusion, the gist of it being that you allege variously that the article isn't neutral because it's asserting something it shouldn't or failing to assert something it should. As I explained in the previous paragraph, I don't think it's doing the former. As for the latter, I think you're wrong there too, but I'm still perfectly willing to entertain the thought that you're right—all that's missing is evidence. <small>(Sorry this was so long. I've been multi-tasking while writing it, which tends to widen my focus. Collapse, move, archive or delete at your pleasure—I won't be offended.) </small>] (]) 09:40, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
	::Thank you so much for your post. I'm in a hurry at the moment, and will respond later. But for that purpose, I would like to ask a question. A core assertion of mine is that another viewpoint significantly exists, that it is not correct to define ALL opposition to homosexuality as "homophobia". Would you agree that such a viewpoint significantly exists? This is at the core of the structural/wikipedian side of my argument. If you say "No" then a response would be kind of pointless until if and when I show that it significantly exists because the rest of my wikipedian/structural argument depends on that. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
	:::As I said, I'm sure such a viewpoint exists but have seen no evidence to suggest it is significant. So I guess my answer is no. But as I also said, I don't see an assertion of any such thing in the article. ] (]) 17:28, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
	::::Well, since "the other viewpoint significantly exists" is the foundation of my argument; I was hoping that you might be willing to stipulate that as a "sky is blue" item; if not then my argument can not proceed usefully further until/unless I took the time to clearly establish that (with sources etc.). But to answer your last point, covering every type of opposition in the homophobia article is a statement that all of that is homophobia. Thanks for your post. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:46, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 02:30, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
	== A note of appreciation ==
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	As the WP:V thing prepares to move on to whatever chaos happens next, I just wanted to drop you an appreciative note. As I think back to when I first took an interest in the issue, you and I were on opposite sides of the debate, and even now, we often disagree. But I've got to say that I really enjoy working with you, and I feel that we have, for the most part, really worked well together. Cheers! --] (]) 13:28, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
	:Thank you so much for that. Of course, the same goes in the reverse direction. It has always been a pleasure working with you, even when we disagree. My most enjoyable conversations (even more than talking with people who agree with me) and the ones that I can learn the most from are are conversations on a high plane with people who disagree with me. And you operate on that high plane. Plus you are also fun to work with. Don't forget to share that huge wiki-financial prize our draft gets picked. :-) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:17, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
	::My prediction: that big paycheck is not coming our way, alas! Easy come, easy go! --] (]) 15:44, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
	:::I already ordered the Ferrari banking on the big money from "C" winning, based on it being the compromise. Now I guess I'll have to go to Las Vegas to get the money to pay for it. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:55, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
	::::Well, so much for that financial plan. :-) <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
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	== 4 proposals ==
	In order to stop ] on the ] page, I restored a version of the article from of few days ago, and issued 4 proposals based on changes editors were trying to implement. Feel free to comment. ] ] (]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added 20:52, 6 July 2012 (UTC)</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:Thanks for the heads up. I tried putting in a "middle ground" one. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:42, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
			== RFA2024 update: no longer accepting new proposals in phase I ==
	== Friendly caution ==
			Hey there! This is to let you know that phase I of the ] is now '''no longer accepting new proposals'''. Lots of proposals remain open for discussion, and the current round of review looks to be on a good track towards making significant progress towards improving ]'s structure and environment. I'd like to give my heartfelt thanks to everyone who has given us their idea for change to make RfA better, and the same to everyone who has given the necessary feedback to improve those ideas. The following proposals remain open for discussion:
	I'll try not to be rude or officious about it, but please don't join edit wars on POV material as you do here. This content isn't remotely neutral or appropriate for the article, and has no consensus, as you surely must know. Plus the IP editor you're following is up to 5RR and a likely sock. - ] (]) 23:18, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
	:I don't know anything about the person putting it in, but the material is notable, factual, germane, a subject of extensive coverage and sourced. I can't imagine any reason for including it. 23:20, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
	::Those would include ], ], ], and not misrepresenting the sources, among others. It's a transparently political point scored by opponents in an election year, not a meaningful event in the history of the presidency, and written in a politicized (though poorly proofread) tone to boot. FYI, the editor has just been blocked for hitting ] in a day. There's a discussion is currently at ], because that's where it started. - ] (]) 23:30, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
	::Also, this is not the first time North8000 has joined in an edit war by an obvious ] or anon IP and tried to insert obvious ] material. I believe this is developing into a pattern and might be best suited to bring to ] for a proposed topic ban. ] (]) 23:40, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
	:::DD2K quit the crap. The material is notable, factual, germane, a subject of extensive coverage and sourced. Wikidemon, of the three policies/guidelines, the first was in error (there is no requirement for consensus to add material, in fact wp:npov often dictates otherwise. The second two go to the same place, wp:npov which in fact is the policy basis for ''inclusion'' of the material; the criteria for both of those is prevalence of coverage in sources. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:51, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|HouseBlaster}}, provides for the addition of a text box at ] reminding all editors of our policies and enforcement mechanisms around decorum.
	== Homophobia argument. ==
			* ''']''' and ''']''', initiated by {{noping|Barkeep49}} and {{noping|Usedtobecool}}, respectively, provide for trials of discussion-only periods at RfA. The first would add three extra discussion-only days to the beginning, while the second would convert the first two days to discussion-only.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|SilkTork}}, provides for a trial of RfAs without threaded discussion in the voting sections.
			* ''']''' and ''']''', initiated by {{noping|BilledMammal}}, provide for allowing users to be selected as provisional admins for a limited time through various concrete selection criteria and smaller-scale vetting.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|Lee Vilenski}}, provides for the "General discussion" section being broken up with section headings.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|Reaper Eternal}}, provides for the requirement that allegations of policy violation be substantiated with appropriate links to where the alleged misconduct occured.
			* ''']''', ''']''', and ''']''', initiated by {{noping|City of Silver}}, {{u|Ritchie333}}, and {{u|HouseBlaster}}, respectively, provide for reducing the discretionary zone, which currently extends from 65% to 75%. The first would reduce it 65%–70%, the second would reduce it to 50%–66%, and the third would reduce it to 60%–70%.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|Novem Lingaue}}, provides for periodic, privately balloted admin elections.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|Kusma}}, provides for the creation of some minimum suffrage requirements to cast a vote.
			* ''']''' and ''']''', initiated by {{noping|Thebiguglyalien}} and {{noping|Soni}}, respectively, provide for community-based admin desysop procedures. 16 would desysop where consensus is established in favor at the ]; 16c would allow a petition to force reconfirmation.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|BilledMammal}}, would extend the recall procedures of 16 to bureaucrats.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|SchroCat}}, provides for "on-call" admins and 'crats to monitor RfAs for decorum.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|theleekycauldron}}, provides for lowering the RfB target from 85% to 75%.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|SportingFlyer}}, provides for a more robust alternate version of the ].
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|Femke}}, provides for the requirement that nominees be extended-confirmed in addition to their nominators.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|WereSpielChequers}}, provides for the creation of a training course for admin hopefuls, as well as periodic retraining to keep admins from drifting out of sync with community norms.
			* ''']''', initiated by {{noping|HouseBlaster}}, tightens restrictions on multi-part questions.
			To read proposals that were closed as unsuccessful, please see ]. You are cordially invited once again to participate in the open discussions; when phase I ends, phase II will review the outcomes of trial proposals and refine the implementation details of other proposals. Another notification will be sent out when this phase begins, likely with the first successful close of a major proposal. Happy editing! ] (] • she/her), via:
	Ok listen, No one is arguing that the word homophobia dosn't apply to fear of homosexuals. It does however include more than that. We already cover your definition within the definition already provided. Why do you continue to argue against this. Everyone has tried to be patient with you but it is becoming more and more difficult. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/homophobia clearly states that homophobia is fear of homosexuality ALONG with antipathy. It would be one thing if no reference to homophobia being a fear of homosexuality was mentioned but that isn't what you are arguing for. You are not arguing for the qualification of part of the definition but the disqualification of another part. We can prove through sources that the definition of discrimination, prejudice, antipathy and hatred are homophobia. Once a source can be provided it can't be taken down. You can sometimes source a conflicting view in which case both must be referenced but you cant remove a sourced statement. I think you could get alot more done on another project. Because the fact of the matter is that the definitions are sourced. -] (]) 21:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. Because I know that you write sincerely, it was informative in an unintended way. I thought people were deliberately "mishearing" my point, but seeing (above) that you completely misheard it, it could be that I've failed to communicate it.....it does take a structural / logical analysis of how the article is written to see it. Briefly it is this: Yes, all along I acknowledge that there are two definitions, the "all opposition is phobia" definition, and the "actual phobia" definition. (And, as a secondary point, the former is controversial.) My complaint is that 90% of the article is written as if only the first definition exists. And that it provides no sourcing for that "only one definition" premise, which is understandable, since that "only one definition" premise is clearly false.
			] (]) 10:53, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
	:Not sure what's next. For my own sanity I planned to just make a few occasional comments, usually when someone else has brought the problem up. But then the bogus tactics and maneuvers start and I spend a lot of time and grief in conversations responding to those.
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			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	:Thanks again for the post. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:06, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 03:32, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
	== Thank you ==
			==]==
	That Barnstar was a surprise, but then again, maybe it wasn't. We have some disagreement, but deep down I think we have a lot of common goals. You're a more diplomatic editor than I am, and I respect your approach. ] (]) 23:45, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
			Hello, North8000,
			I just thought I'd let you know that this article, which was just moved to this particular title, had the PROD tag you added last week removed. Editors used to be routinely notified if an article they tagged was de-PROD'd but that habit has kind of died out now that we have more articles being de-PROD'd than in the past. So, I just thought I'd alert you in case you wished to take it to ]. Thank you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 21:49, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
	:It was due. From your overall pattern I can see that you put the mission of building a good encyclopedia above all else. I'd much rather run into someone who disagrees with me with that purpose in mind than many of the other things I run into in wikipedia. And, where there are differences of opinion regarding content, I'd much rather run into someone who is refreshingly blunt and on-topic than the more common tactics of conducting disagreements (mis-using policies, deliberately "mis-hearing" what people said etc., ad hominem tactics etc.)
			:{{ping|Liz}} Thanks for the heads up. It was sitting in the NPP que for almost 4 months and nothing was happening on problems (including a severe one with the title and thus title-defined subject) long noted by others. With the title change it would probably need hours of learning by me or involvement of someone more knowledgeable on the topic than me to figure out what to do next. Either way it still has "waiting for NPP" flag on it. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 22:07, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
	:Not that this needs saying with you (it's more to express my own thoughts) but don't let this change anything, including/especially don't start agreeing with me unless I convinced you. :-) <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:54, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
			==Tokio Hotel's Your Christmas==
	::I suspect, because of you're apparent interest in the matter, that like me you see great value in Scouting. As an Australian I've also seen the very positive impact on Scouting in my country of including females at all levels and at all ages, of reducing the emphasis on a prescribed god (spirituality is still important), and not worrying about whether members are gay. I'm over 60, and saw many people of my age and younger pretty frightened of what the changes would lead to, and who now (the vast majority of them anyway) recognise the huge value in the more open, unified organisation. We all still believe in the core values of enhancing the lives of young people through adventurous, outdoor activities. I suspect you believe in that too. ] (]) 07:53, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
	:::I think the same way that you do, maybe further. I'm for the societal normalization of homosexuality, but am adamantly against the denigrating/polarizing tactics / approaches used by the activists, and also want to avoid reverse-discrimination. (In the US, when we swing on an issue like this we tend to skip the middle ground and go right to reverse-discrimination.) As an atheist with over 5 decades in an organization (BSA) which supposedly bans us, (and which has a similar situation on the homosexuality front) I think that I have a different understanding than you regarding the actual more complex situation here with BSA. But we both want the same end. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 09:42, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
			I have found twice now this article redirected to the band's main article. This was down to "no evidence of notability", despite it charting at 42 on Official German Charts. Please enlighten me on what other evidence of notability is needed, because I thought if a song charted in at least one country, that's enough.
	== Gun policy ==
	I tried creating: ]. It is still alive but others are trying to kill it. I noticed that you had a similar issue with it on in an article talk page.--] (]) 12:35, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
	:One idea, possibly call it an essay for now? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:48, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
	::The definition they used for calling it that was a one editor OWN article. I creating this one from policies, guidelines, and samples from other areas that I thought backed up NPOV. I will edit it to reflect that some may consider that though. It may remain pseudo-essay until consensus is reached to remove that label. It may seem OR as well because of the examples. I just grabbed a few at random and didn't read any yet. The examples could be sorted into good examples and bad ones. We could even work on the bad ones, move them to the good ones, move older good ones out, and then add more bad ones. It is a similar format as other WP pages, using cites to just a few policies for now. We can add more such as POV, OR, RS, STICK, BLP, etc.--] (]) 13:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
	It seems to be viewed as an essay now. Someone just informed me of ] and I linked it to the delete discussion. I have always said that anyone can edit it so you may wish to add your wisdom to it as well. I have added many changes since you may have seen it.--] (]) 03:50, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
			] (]) 12:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
	== About ] ==
			:{{Ping|Bandit5660}} The main idea of wp:notability, including the wording choices at N:Music is having the in depth coverage in sources from which to build an article from. Similarly in the discussions at other policies and guidelines even if one made points such as yours regarding the wp:notability condition. This article has no such coverage and no such content. IMO it should be merged into the band or album article. I'm going to step away from this one from a NPP standpoint (and also I'm not tagging it) and let someone else review it. Either way, happy editing!<b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:56, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
	Hi North8000. This was a ] by ] where there was arguably no consensus to close. You !voted to delete. Your thoughts about this? --] (]) 12:06, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. Between when I weighed in and now the article went from zero references to 8 references. I didn't review them thoroughly but the wp:notability situation looks much better now. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:56, 4 August 2012 (UTC)
			== ] ==
	==Boy Scouts Sexual Abuse==
	I have to partially disagree with your undue weight claim . That section until my edits barely mentioned the scope of the subject of sexual abuse within the organization. I understand there is a main article, but that sub section had 0 specific examples such as the the highly publicized Dykes case. The section was written to sort of mention the possibility of sexual abuse, and then in great detail talks about the purported efforts to address such. No summarized mention was even made, of factual documented incidents. So sir I will see your due and undue weight which I think is relevant as the previous version definitely gave undue weight towards not mentioned the breadth of the sexual abuse and I will raise you a ] and may I advise to take in consideration any possible ]. Lets discuss on the talk page and let me remand WP:3RR as you have already reverted twice. Lets discuss.--] (]) 16:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
			Hello! I am asking you to please review my article to see if it is worthy of being moved to the main page of the English Misplaced Pages. I have replaced some references that were not reliable sources and added careers to the article. If you don't think the article is worthy please feel free to make suggestions on the article's talk page or my user talk page. Thanks and regards ] (]) 07:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
	:Please stop trying to war the material in prior to the discussion. But the "lets discuss" sounds good to me. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:27, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
	::Sorry but 1 revert is not warring sir, you are the one making the majority of reverts, please stop accusing me of warring thank you! And I would advise looking in the mirror before you "Lob" around accusations of edits warring. Also as mentioned previously I have concerns about ] and ]--] (]) 18:01, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Closed-loop geothermal ==
	Another instance of bogus accusations as a tactic to try to achieve a goal. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:08, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
			Hi, Thanks for your note at AfC help desk. Appreciate your review/direct edits/comments on the draft page for closed-loop geothermal here: ] to improve probability of approval at submission. Thanks in advance. ] (]) 19:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
	== Hong Kong ==
			:{{Ping|Nemesia345}} I copied them into the talk page of the draft....is that what you meant? Also, just clarifying, if you wish I could do the AFC review when you resubmit if you pinged me. I'd probably also do the NPP review at the same time. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:58, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
	If refs can be found, this can be saved from FAR, but in its state, it won't. Does Wim work on Scout articles anymore?] ] 01:09, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
	:I think my brain is in low gear. Not sure who Wim is. After my one FA / article of the day experience (]) I decided that my focus is accurate, informative articles rather than worrying about FA. For me FA looks like requiring an immense amount of perfection in details that are secondary to accuracy and informativeness and sometimes trivial. But I'm always always ready to help improve an article! Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
	::] ] ] 01:41, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 08:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
	== Boy Scouts of America edit warring ==
			== A barnstar for you! ==
	<nowiki>]</nowiki> Your recent editing history at ] shows that you are currently engaged in an ]. '''Being involved in an edit war can result in you being ]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the ], which states that an editor must not perform more than three ] on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;'''even if you don't violate the three-revert rule'''&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's ] to work toward making a version that represents ] among editors. See ] for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant ] or seek ]. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary ]. {{Break}}You are at 3RR and ignoring discussion. If you hit 4RR, I will report you, so please talk to us instead. We can compromise.<!-- Template:uw-3rr --> ] (]) 02:14, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
	:Ignore this warning. You were not at 3RR. An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page '''within a 24-hour period.''' Consider this a false warning. 18:54, 6 August 2012‎, 10:40, 7 August 2012‎, 23:02, 7 August 2012. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's more than 24 hours. So you would be at 2RR. ] (]) 03:36, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
	::It's kind of you to offer advice on how to ] the system to successfully edit war without getting blocked, but your advice happens to be wrong. As I said, he's ''at'' 3RR. To violate the bright line rule, he'd have to pass it by hitting 4RR.
			|-
	::I could report him even now and he might or might not get blocked for edit-warring, which he's blatantly guilty of, but I chose to warn. I've also limited myself to 2RR, which means I'm not even ''touching'' the line, much less passing it.
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For being one of the best reviewer. Your work is not going unnoticed. You are doing good work! Keep it up! ] (]) 10:40, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
	::Either way, it's really bad advice to tell him to ignore a valid edit war notice such as this one. But don't worry; others have joined North in edit-warring to keep out all mention of BSA abuse, because any article about conservatives ''must'' be controlled by conservatives, just like Jesus demands. ] (]) 03:43, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
			|}
	:::They are telling you that you claim is in error and bogus. How you get "offering advice to game" out of that illustrates the abusive tactics that you are attempting. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:22, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
			{{ping|Tumbuka Arch}} Thanks! I try! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:14, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
	Still-24-45-42-125's note is botched and bogus at several levels. First , my series of edits WAS to have the material that they are trying to war in go to talk. Second, they have been trying to war it in prior to talk. Next, 3RR concerns 4 edits in one day, not 3 edits over 3 days. And that's just the beginning of the misrepresentations in the above post. Finally, equating taking that highly problematic insertion to talk first is "edit-warring to keep out all mention of BSA abuse, because any article about conservatives ''must'' be controlled by conservatives, just like Jesus demands." (written to me, an atheist) is so baseless and out of line that (to put it mildly) I can see that there is no real conversation going on. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:02, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
	:It's not a conversation, it's an announcement. You can disregard the announcement, but there are consequences to that. ] (]) 17:27, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
	::It's an announcement that you (Still) do not intent to follow Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines. It ''should'' lead to an indefinite block, but probably won't. Yet. — ] ] 18:04, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::It's an announcement that North8000 was edit-warring and was about to get reported. It served its purpose; he stopped edit-warring, allowing other conservatives to continue the war in his place.
	:::You keep threatening me, but you do nothing. Really, you should find some lame excuse to report me already, or just drop the threats. They're getting old. ] (]) 18:07, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::Still-24-45-42-125, your behavior is atrocious. There are about 10 examples of it in this section alone. And I can see that my interactions with you are just the tip of the iceberg in that respect. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:33, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::::I suppose it's time for an RFC/U. Although it serves no direct purpose, it seems required before requesting restrictions at ] or ]. We've established that he doesn't understand simple English or Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines, even after they're explained to him. — ] ] 07:19, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::::Just by random at other articles, noticeboards, block notices I've seen a lot of bad stuff, i.e. more than I've ever seen that way for a single editor. And, of course the interaction here and a couple of articles where I've seen it closer up. But I've not looked deeper & beyond that, it sounds like you have additional info/perspective in that area. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:16, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
			== ] has an ]==
	== Homophobia article ==
			<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">]</div>''']''' has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the ''']'''.<!-- Template:Rfc notice--> Thank you.
	I'm really sorry you felt that you wern't being treated fairly on the homophobia article. I do understand your point and believe it is a valid point although I don't agree with it. If you wish to completely leave the homophobia topic I will understand. If you want to discuss it here where you will not be judged by everybody that is fine too. And by the way thanks for calling me civilized. I do try to see your points and I believe I understand them. I don't think you are a homophobe. In my personal opinion you are misguided but not a homophobe. You probably think I'm misguided too. Thats okay. I just want you to know that I appreciate you and your contributions. I just think its time to let it die on the main page for a while Sincerly your friend-] (]) 07:40, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
			]-- your comment would be greatly appreciated ] (]) 14:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Closed-loop geothermal ==
	:Thanks. Believe it or not in the real world I think that we think mostly alike on this. I'm for the societal normalizaion of homosexuality. I'm not for the nasty tactics used by some folks who feel that way, including branding anybody who feels otherwise as having a phobia. ''And tactics work in reverse by breeding resentment.'' But in a Misplaced Pages sense, such opinions are not relevant. Two definitions of the word exist, and one of them is sky-is-blue obviously controversial. The problem with the article is that, as a part of a POV quest, it pretends that the more controversial "all opposition is phobia" definition is the ONLY definition. That would be just a difference of opinion but the more severe problem there is the nasty tactics used by a certain cadre there against people who do not agree with their quest. I think that they have set the record for the amount of bogus tactics and bogus accusations used against a fellow editor. And when I see people using such tactics against people in Misplaced Pages to further their purposes, I really see red.
			Hi, the ] page has been resubmitted. Sections on Technology and Related Terminology were added to address your comments. Appreciate your AFC and NPP review per prior Talk topic if possible! ] (]) 03:28, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
	:And no I do not think that you are misguided. I think that the real world you and your thoughts and efforts are right on track and admirable. And in Misplaced Pages you are a kind and thoughtful editor. About the worst complaint I could muster is taking real life advocacy a bit too much into Misplaced Pages and having a bit of a hard time understanding my someone abstract analysis of the structure of the article, which is necessary to present the issues in Wiki-terms. But the first in very minor, and the second is somewhere between normal and being a failure of mine to explain better. Your friend.<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:35, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|Nemesia345}} I did it. Nice work! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	Well maybe we will work together on other articles in the social sciences field. Right now on the Islamophobia page there is a huge controversy about whether it is a form of racism. Maybe we could work together there.-] (]) 03:51, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the invite. That one looks like a minefield. I just treat people as individuals without prejudice, and expect others to do the same. The week after 9/11 when nobody was thinking straight and a mid-eastern run gas station near my house received threats, I drove there to to tell the owner I'd help including standing guard or anything. And earlier this this summer I spent 2 hours at an Islam booth at an event learning. Conversely, inventing and promoting words like hompophobia & Islamophobia to vilify people who sincerely feel otherwise (through lack of information or whatever) fuels the flames and only delays the solution. And people IMHO using Misplaced Pages to try to establish or entrench such relabellings is also wrong on Misplaced Pages grounds. So, I'd like to work with you somewhere but might be best if I sit that particular one out. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:37, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 12:30, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
	== Smart meter ==
			== ] ==
	Thanks for your feedback and implementation of my request edit.
			{{ping|North8000}}, thank you for your review. Any chance you could look into ] as well? --] (]) 15:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
	If you're up for it, I made ] on the smart grid article. I hope I'm not nagging, but I only bring it up because it's a tough gig for COIN editors to jump into unfamiliar topics - much easier for editors that are naturally interested in the subject area. ] 06:06, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Happy to take a look at it. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:34, 23 August 2012 (UTC)		:The core question is whether or not there are independent sources that cover him in depth. If you could pick out the two references that best do this and ping me I'd be happy to take a look. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
			:: {{ping|North8000}} Hi again. There is from "Shine News" in Shanghai, and (in Hebrew) in "]", references 32 & 33 respectively on the current draft. There is also on ], reference number 30 in current draft. In addition, Ami Dror is a prominent protest leader who is constantly sought after by television media, and radio. Your help would be greatly appreciated. --] (]) 07:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
	::I'm answering here rather than there because my review has only been superficial at this point and my thoughts not supportive of inclusion. First is not really your issue directly, but with OpenHDR at the core of your insertion....... there is no real explanation of OpenHDR that I could find in Misplaced Pages. The OpenHDR article is about the most worthless 2000 words I have even seen in an article it never really explains what it's subject is or it's place in the scheme of things. I spent a few minutes exploring the references and still didn't find anything, and noted that none seem to be the required in depth coverage by third party sources required for the existence of an article. With regards to the main insertion, at Smart meters the existence of projects alone to me seemed encyclopedic given the current state of affairs (opposition etc.) with smart meters. IMHO it's less so at the smart grid article where the mere existence of projects is not as newsworthy and seems to me to more promotional and less encyclopedic than your proposal at the Smart meter article. And, I'm only putting this at my talk page because it's just based on a fast (not thorough) review by myself. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:42, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
			{{Ping|Omert33}} Those look very solid. My wiki-minutes are limited which is why I'm asking you to do legwork in order for me to help.
	:::Ok. I'll leave it up to impartial editors. Below are some articles on OpenADR (hopefully we will improve that Misplaced Pages article as well eventually). It also occurs to me that we may want to call them implementation examples, rather than OpenADR implementation examples.
			#Are all 3 of those references currently in the article? (please be sure to answer this question even if not)
	:::* GigaOm
			#If not, can you put them in and then confirm to me?
	:::* New Pike Research
			Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
	:::* GreenTechMedia
			:{{ping|North8000}}, the answer is yes. All three references are in the article. --] (]) 08:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
	:::* GigaOm
			::{{Ping|Omert33}} Nice work. I moved it to article space and NPP reviewed.Left a post at talk referencing this thread regarding GNG sourcing. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:22, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
	:::] 14:28, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
			:::{{ping|North8000}}, thank you so much for your help but I now see that it has been nominated for deletion. Why are they doing this? --] (]) 14:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
	::::Thanks for the links! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:26, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
			::::I'm not going to hypothesize. See my comments at the AFD. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
	:::::A random unrelated question I thought of asking you, because you are a contributor to the biofuel article and seem reasonably cautious. One of the ideas that a lot of editors at Wikimania seemed to support was that they want to see more corporations donate images, like the ones Honeywell has donated you can see ]. These images took months to obtain, get permission, etc. and now I just need to give them some better captions.
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	:::::The issue I have is that in submitting them for specific articles, I feel like it becomes this coy game. If I asked to add the image of a refinery to the ] article, should it mention in the caption that it's a Honeywell refinery? The autopilot image is generic enough not to mention Honeywell on an autopilot article, though it naturally would on ]. On the other hand, something like the PrimusApex is more unique. Images of Honeywell products for example have been added to the article on Turbochargers (and labeled as such in the caption) by volunteers, but doing the same as a COI...
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 06:31, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
	:::::I wonder what you might think is the best approach for contributing the images? New ground for me as a COI editor. ] 22:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
			:Done<b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
			== Page Review Request ==
	Here's a quick shoot from the hip; I'd be happy to discuss more or in greater depth. Misplaced Pages sort of conflates two different meanings for "COI"
			Hi ], Thank you for reviewing the page I wrote about ThirumaLi and leaving an appreciation note saying nice work :) Thank you. I was wondering if you would also be able to review a page I wrote about Masala Coffee's founder - ], please? Thanks! ] 15:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
	#IMHO the gold standard one at the beginning of wp:coi which is "When advancing outside interests is more important to an editor than advancing the aims of Misplaced Pages, that editor stands in a conflict of interest."
			:My Wiki minutes are limited, but if you could help a bit..... In your case it needs to have GNG sources, which means published independent sources that cover the ''topic of the article'' (Varun Sunil) In depth. Could you pick out the 2-3 sources in the article that you think best fulfill this requirement? Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
	#Is when there is a strong interest (usually dealing only with commercial or similar) which presents a high risk of #1 occurring.
			::Hi, Definitely. I understand. Sharing few GNG Sources for you to review them easier. Here's (The Hindu Article - Considered a Reliable Source), , Thank you for your time, ]. ] 17:55, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
			:::I did the review. Happy editing! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
			== I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed ==
	In short, #2 is the case with you and you have to keep #1 from happening while you edit. Following the rules (as you admirably are) is a good defense for Misplaced Pages if #1 is occurring, but my advice (and what you should do) is once you enter Misplaced Pages, leave some stuff behind so that #1 does not occur. That doesn't mean that there can't be some mutual benefit for Honeywell for your Wikipedian efforts. And so my general advice is to let that be your guide.
			Hi North8000. Thank you for your work on ]. Another editor, ], has reviewed it as part of ] and left the following comment:
	On the more specific front, I deal heavily in both Misplaced Pages and the real world in industrial automation and heavily technical fields. IMHO saying the name of a company in the caption of an image of a piece of equipment or a facility is useful information for the reader. And, of course, the image should have some value to the reader. The less useful the company name is to the reader, the less I'd say it should be used. And the less useful the image is to the article the less I'd tend to use it.
			{{Bq|1=Hey, Just wanted to let you know, ] (and ] reporting from other Indian news sources) are generally considered fairly unreliable. (See ]).}}
	Again, this was a quick shoot from the hip; I'd be happy to discuss more or in greater depth. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:48, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
			To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{code|<nowiki>{{Re|</nowiki>Sohom Datta<nowiki>}}</nowiki>}}. <small>(Message delivered via the ] tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)</small><!-- Template:Sentnote-NPF -->
	:This is good feedback, thanks. I can reasonably use the guide "when it's informative to the reader" and provide that consultation to clients. I'll do those as COI with a request edit, while the others are non-COI donated images. BTW, you're welcome to comment on the ] request edit. I was rather hoping you would either voice an objection more firmly or update that you felt it was ok. ] 07:35, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
	::Happy to do that. Sincerely <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:21, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
			] (]) 00:44, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
	:::That would be great if you did that. Some of the request edits I'm submitting for Honeywell now I first wrote 6 months ago, before I became 10x a better Wikipedian. At the time I had a regular job and this was a side-project. Boy how quickly things have changed. ] 16:56, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Re|Sohom Datta}} Thanks for the post and info. I'm a bit confused in a couple ways......I didn't work on / edit the article. I left a note but didn't review it and you did. But thanks for the info. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 01:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
	::::I was happy to see someone bold enough to suggest making edits to the COI guideline page. I had written off the time I spent in that discussion. I consider myself to have a COI with the subject of COI. ] 05:21, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Re|Sohom Datta}} Do you have much experience with Times of India. I can understand where they they might not be reliable enough for various purposes (such as sourcing something controversial for BLP). But my most common situation is where `I'm evaluating for GNG coverage in the customary degree of stringency. For example, if they have a substantive article on someone that looks like a real article (not posting a bio supplied by the person). So we're basically looking for puplished independent coverage. Do you think that they fall short for that type of thing? Enough so to not look at Times of India when reviewing for GNG coverage? <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 01:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
	:::::Great to hear from you and nice work that you are doing and how you are handling it. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:38, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
			::(In response to your first question), PageTriage does list you as the reviewer (which is why I sent this note). ] (]) 01:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
			::My approach to looking at ] for notability purposes is to take each and every individual article on a case by case basis. In the case of ] almost all of the articles are short (compare the size of vs or even which is just a fluffy summary of a tweet), do not have an attributed author and are written in the style of a press release which makes me doubt their reliability and neutrality. For most BLPs, companies and TV shows (basically any topic where paid publishing can be a concern) I tend to approach TOI reporting with scepticism from a notability POV. ] (]) 01:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
	==ANI==		== Help ==
	Hello, North8000. I don't know if you saw my note to you on the TPM Talk Page this morning about 2RR concerns . I had no intention of reporting you to WP:AN/EW and still don't, but Collect subsequently made a report at ANI, which I read and commented on, and in the process of the course of the discussion I laid out what happened from my perspective which named you, Ian.thomson, Collect, and CartoonDiablo, and your roles in the matter from my perspective, which include 2RR problems for you and CartoonDiablo. You can find the thread ], I just wanted to make sure I gave you notice and a chance to respond since blocks may be forthcoming (hopefully not). Regards, ] (]) 01:08, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	:Good news - doesn't look like anyone is going to be getting blocked. Regards, ] (]) 02:41, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	::I did not violate 1RR, I only reverted once. The one note that raised this question made the error of considering an edit to material added 1 3/4 years ago (November 2010) to be a "revert" of that addition. By that standard, ANY removal from any article would mistakenly be called a "revert" which is not correct. Sincerely,<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:03, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	*''Any'' removal of content from ''any'' article '''is''' a revert; when the the content was originally added is irrelevant. Exceptions for BLP problems, copyvios and vandalism are in place, but they too are reverts and caution should be exercised when employing these exceptions on articles and topics with a 1RR restriction. ]] 03:46, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
			{{ping|North8000}} Greetings again. Could you please take a look at ] on the talk page? Your view on the matter would be appreciated. --] (]) 10:00, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
	::So you are saying that every instance of removal of any material, even the oldest item in Misplaced Pages is a "revert" for the purposes of 1RR ? ! That's unimaginable. Frankly, I think that I was being used to obscure the report there which involves someone who did two reverts within hours both on the same hours-old edit by trying to say that my first edit, the first one on 2-year old material was a "revert". How would anybody even know that it came about by some method in ancient history which the current edit would be considered a "revert" of vs. going in some way where it wouldn't? That isn't a report on me but if someone is trying to raise the question about me this would certainly need a broader discussion on this which is only a side-topic on the current one there. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:51, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::I'm not commenting on the present case. My purpose was to help you avoid a similar problem in your future editing. If you remove content you have reverted an edit. ]] 03:55, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::Well, with that intent in mind, thanks for the post. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::::I just thought about it. Under that interpretation, just editing 4 different parts of any article in one day would constitute a 3RR violation. That makes no sense. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:26, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	::::::And 0RR would mean that existing material could ''never'' be edited! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	{{Od}}From his post at AN/I it appears that ] has yet a different definition of these terms. I shall have to go read the policy ''again.'' ]] 17:49, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	:I think he was talking more about in practice, and I think it makes sense. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	::Agree. The position I was commenting from, and sorely uncommunicating, was that an article or topic that carries a 0RR or 1RR is going to be contentious by definition. ''Any'' edit(s) to such an article or topic would be under such scrutiny that I would think one should err on the side of caution. Partly to avoid sanctions and, more importantly, to achieve consensus and article stability. Please believe that it was not my intention to cast your actions in a bad light. My sole aim is the improvement of the encyclopedia. Thanks for your patience. ]] 23:14, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
	:::Thanks! Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:32, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
	== Bright Line Essay ==		== A barnstar for you! ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	BTW - I and . I thought I would bring it up, because the essay <i>may</i> eventually be a good link for the Financial COI section of ]. I put emphasis on "may" because the Bright Line is not something I would consider to have consensus (but then nothing about COI does). However, I think we can present it as - like the rest of the COI guideline - good "advice." Or perhaps it just makes things even more complicated, by offering even more contradicting advice.
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I would really appreciate your efforts at NPP. You are really a great new page patroller. Please keep up the good work! ] (]) 17:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
			|}
			{{Ping|Maliner}} Thanks! I try! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
	It's a bit risky pushing it on Jimbo's Talk page, because he has strong opinions on it. ] 03:47, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
	::Thanks for the heads up. I read it. You've done a lot of good work there! If you'd like any advice, it's missing the 1 or 2 sentences that says what it is. Without that it's particularly confusing because the "bright line" term seems to conflict with what it actually is. In Misplaced Pages "Bright line" typically means a particularly clear-cut rule for particularly-clear cut situations. But the essay seems to be some excellent ideas / guidance on editing in a financial COI situation. But either way, nice work! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:43, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::I am being selfish here, because I gingerly follow the "in spirit" doctrine and I need something to link to when I introduce myself to new editors, so they know they don't need to watchlist the article and raise their shields.
			== Re: AfDs ==
	:::My other projects have a similar theme. I created an AfC-like system with Noununiquenames for the {{t|request edit}} queue to make the bright line more practical, even for major re-writes. I've worked with BigNate37 on a ] for extant organizations that beams the financial COI advice of ] directly to the article Talk pages on the articles that need it most. An early work-in-progress is a for reviewers and submitters of request edits that could one day improve our consistency.
			Hi North8000, I'd like to raise a concern regarding your AfDs and ask for clarification. I appreciate that you do a lot of review of new pages. However, I'm concerned about how thorough your ] searches are particularly as they relate to looking for ] are required under step B7 of the process. I notice that you've recently nominated articles for deletion where the primary language is ], ], ], ], ], and ]. These are quite varied languages and the probability that one person can do a competent WP:BEFORE search in all of these languages strikes me as unlikely. Understand you're a far more experienced editor than I am but it strikes me that in some cases articles may be getting deleted that would be kept if someone who spoke the language searched for sources. I appreciate that I was notified when you nominated a page I created but perhaps it would also be appropriate to somehow notify other editors who speak the appropriate language or consult them before making a nomination? Misplaced Pages is already ] and I would hate for a pattern of AfD nominations to reinforce that bias. Just a note and appreciate that you help cull quite a bit of spam from the website. ] (]) 11:36, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
	:::Misplaced Pages tells companies to use Talk pages, but doesn't make it easy, obvious or effective to do so. I think with a bit of hard-work and elbow grease, we can make it a more attractive strategy for companies and improve the situation as a result. ] 14:11, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|DCsansei}} Thanks for that thoughtful post. I think that even the most thorough search in all languages would not result in a keep on the first 5 of those 6 and maybe also the 6th. Discussing all of them would be a long multi-faceted discussion on each of them I'm not able to do here right now. But maybe if you could pick one of theme to have a more in-depth discussion on I'd be happy to do that and I think it would be helpful. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:13, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
	== Binarism ==
			::I also don't consider myself qualified to evaluate the notability of most of the examples I provided: I don't speak those languages. My interest was piqued by ], an article I started a few weeks ago with the intention of coming back to but didn't expect the notability to be questioned. I struggle to see how you could come to the conclusion that he isn't notable if a BEFORE search was conducted. I'm working to improve the article a bit now to at least head-off deletion (with the intent of return to it further later). I found when I provided numerous sources a bit dismissive particularly as it relates to perpetrating Misplaced Pages's tendency to focus entirely on American/English topics despite being a global resource. Shibata was described (in English) by Reuters as and there are numerous sources describing his various career moves. If English-speaking editors don't view one of the most high-profile business leaders in what was then the world's second largest economy as obviously notable on Misplaced Pages it's no wonder we have systematic bias. ] (]) 12:41, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
	Hey North, I was hoping you could help me with a new project I'm working on. I've created a Binarism article. I think both me and you know that unlike other LGBT groups the Genderqueer and Intersex people don't have nearly as much publicity and therefore don't have a chance to be dirty activists. And since you are for the 100% public normalization of homosexuality I was hoping that you could help me on this article which I desperately need help on.-] (]) 11:37, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|DCsansei}} Well that was the "#6" that I referred to which could go either way. Long story short, structurally the current question is whether or not there are two (maybe one will do) published independent sources that cover ''the topic of the article'' (him) in depth. And the main point behind that is to see if there is enough published in-depth material to create a real wiki-article from. So the question isn't how "real world notable" he is, the question is whether or not those 2 sources exist. So if somebody googles a person and finds a whole lot of "hits" that doesn't answer that question. The real work is going through those hits to find the 2 (or maybe 1) sources that fulfill the relevant criteria (or find out that they don't exist). The flip side is that if those 2 (maybe one) sources exist to advise that keeping the article is far simpler than you think.....just identify those two sources and it's a "keep".
	:Cool. I don't have expertise there (I just read it and still don't understand it) but it sounds like it would be fun and interesting. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:46, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
	::Well if you read the gender binary article and the genderqueer article it should make much more sense.-] (]) 12:00, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::A step ahead of you, I did that since then, plus some things I found with a Google search. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
			:::There might be a bit of a background thing that affected the shortness of my response. Which might be me (possibly mistakenly) assuming that you know all of the above. About the 20 most active NPP'ers need to do about 90% of the review work and right now we're struggling to get through / drowning in a 15,000 article backlog. With the "real work" part being sorting through a bunch of hits to find the 1-2 sources of the right type, your post could be taken as criticizing me for not doing that work while declining to actually do that work. Either way, thanks for your posts. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:22, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
	== Smart Grid ==
			::::Admittedly, I was not pleased with being asked to do any "real work" since I'm on holiday this week so finding the 7-day AfD clock during time it would take away from vacation rather than work is not ideal. Not a knock on your work patrolling new articles which must run across a lot of craff. Could you take another look at the article now? I believe notability should be apparent now although I'll continue slowly reviewing Japanese sources. ] (]) 11:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
			::::{{Ping|DCsansei}} Here's a copy of my post at that "#6"
			:::::"'''Keep/withdraw''' The creator has increased it from 4 references up to 27 references. They've also asked me to take a look at those/the article as they are away on vacation/holidays. (IMO this mostly means analyzing all of the new references and finding the GNG-best ones per my request above)....happy to help someone enjoy their vacation/holidays and I did. Most of the best looking ones are behind paywalls, but as a minimum there are many near-GNG references by top tier sources. They have also expanded the article substantially with enclyclopedic content, also indicative of the addition of in-depth references. While I can't vouch for the most rigorous-interpretation GNG compliance, I have decided to switch to "keep/withdraw"."
			::::Enjoy your vacation! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 11:57, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Thank you. I appreciate your engagement here. ] (]) 07:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	There's plenty of other areas for me to contribute where I have greater expertise and no COI, but if you're interested, I would be happy to duplicate the article to a draft space, where we could clean it up a bit over the long weekend and you could re-incorporate at your discretion.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 00:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
	It's a long story and I'm happy to explain as a separate discussion, but in my genuine COI work, I have found the Bright Line is absolutely crucial to me doing good for Misplaced Pages. ] 22:53, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	:I'm confused by what you mean by "Bright line". I'm cool with the idea but it's pretty complicated / big job trying to understand what the differences are between A whole article and an edited version of it. Maybe you could use strikeouts for removals and colored text for additions. ? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 14:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
	::Oh, there's a much easier process. I've started it ]. I can provide detailed edit notes in the history and you can watchlist the draft. So something like "removed external links in the body" is a no-brainer, but an edit note like "rebuilding controversy section" gives you an idea on where to look. You can look at the diff, or just look at the article "lets see what he did with it" kind of thing. I do this often in cases where I have a real COI, where I submit a request edit and show them the detailed edit notes.
			== Monthly reviewers query ==
	::No bother if you don't want to though - I don't mean to be such a burden. Obviously it is much easier for editors to just edit away, but I wouldn't be comfortable doing so in this case. ] 04:27, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::Cool. Good idea. I'll watch it and may have a few thoughts. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:58, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
			Hey North8000, I noticed you are having trouble with that monthly reviewers query. I can assist you, but first, I’ll need to create a page in your userspace. Once that’s done, you’ll be able to update data with just one click anytime you need to. – ] (''']''') 03:21, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
	== File:Huron outline.gif listed for deletion ==
	A file that you uploaded or altered, ], has been listed at ]. Please see the ] to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> ] (]) 08:56, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Answered there. But the reason for the notice was that it was not used in an article. And my response on that was: There is a dispute at the article and it was temporarily taken out ( which might happen again) by someone who claims that Lake Huron is not a lake. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:11, 15 October 2012 (UTC)		:{{Ping|DreamRimmer}} Great! Please do! Thanks. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:03, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
			::I've gone ahead and created ] in your userspace. Moving forward, a bot will take care of updating the data every 30 days. Plus, you can always grab the latest reports yourself by simply clicking 'Update the table now' whenever you want. – ] (''']''') 16:49, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|DreamRimmer}} Wow! Thanks. Is there a way I can export it to a file? Because that's how I was doing what I was doing. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:33, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
			::::Which format? – ] (''']''') 12:39, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
			:::::{{Ping|DreamRimmer}} I import into MS Access, so almost any structured file will do. But let's say Excel or .csv. If this is possible, thanks!<b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:46, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
			:::::: Exporting from there isn’t possible, but you can use to download it as a CSV file. Just copy and paste the URL of the table page, then click on the send button. That’s all. – ] (''']''') 17:45, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
			:::::::{{Ping|DreamRimmer}} Thanks! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:49, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
			{{Re|DreamRimmer}} thanks for doing this while I was off-wiki.
	== File:Michigan outline.gif listed for deletion ==
	A file that you uploaded or altered, ], has been listed at ]. Please see the ] to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. <!-- Template:Fdw --> ] (]) 09:32, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
			{{Re|North8000}} is this good enough for your workflow? I notice that the report has been refreshed a few times. Hopefully, one of those times was you. -] (]) 06:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
	:Answered there. But the reason for the notice was that it was not used in an article. And my response on that was: There is a dispute at the article and it was temporarily taken out ( which might happen again) by someone who claims that Lake Michigan is not a lake. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:12, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|MPGuy2824}} {{Ping|DreamRimmer}} Yes, it worked out great and thanks to everyone. Just trying to learn a bit....what does that one run in seconds where the other one wouldn't complete even in hours. Or maybe I was doing something wrong. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
	== ] ==
			== Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment ==
	Hi North8000,
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 07:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
	I saw your comment on this article talk page which looked pretty reasonable.
	Another editor seems to have ownship issues with this article. Could you please look at the editing and comment further on the talk page. Thank you, --] (]) 14:19, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
			== There is a mop reserved in your name ==
	:Be happy to. But I don't think that it's an ownership issue; based on a lot of observation IMO it's someone who's editing is driven by political partisanship/goals. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:06, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
			<!-- From template {{Administrator without tools}} -->
			<table style="background-color:#fcffdd; width:100%; border:3px solid #fceb92; margin:1em auto 1em auto">
			<tr>]
			<td style="vertical-align:middle; padding:1px">]</td>
			<td style="vertical-align:middle; padding:1px; text-align:center">'''You are a remarkable editor in many ways.''' You would be a good administrator, in my opinion, and appear to be well qualified. You personify an ''''']''''' and have gained my support already!</td></tr>
			</table> <!-- insert an optional message here --> ] (]) 17:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|Maliner}} Thanks! I try! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
	== '''The Olive Branch''': A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1) ==
			::Seconding this, I've seen your work around in NPP, I've found most of your work to be pretty solid :) ] (]) 19:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|Sohom Datta}} Thanks! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:16, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
			::::Why not, please? North8000 is an expensive editor and I admire your work at NPP. ] (]) 21:15, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
			:::::North8000 is one of the remarkable page reviewers I've ever seen. The fast yet accurate is giving. You're now the third I'm owing a rock and I support all about you. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span><sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 22:19, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
			*I have often and many times seen and been impressed by your competence, conduct, and clue North8000, and like the others here: I think you would be a very good administrator. I also believe that your RfA would easily succeed as your qualifications are readily obvious, robust and well rounded, and rock solid by any fair measure. Your temperament is as close to admin perfect as it can practically be. And it's unambiguously clear that your character traits are genuine (not a contrived cell in your body I'm certain). Misplaced Pages is better because of you and the gifts of your time given. Above all else, I sincerely thank you for that. And I would be thrilled to support you for adminship. Having said these things with best regards, I wish you wellness and good cheer.--] (]) 00:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
			::{{Ping|John Cline}} Thanks. I'd be happy to serve but it's a big decision to go through the RFA process. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:17, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
			::{{+1}} – ] (''']''') 16:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
			:::I'm only seeing this now, good idea! Didn't know you weren't an admin yet. My email is open if you'd like to get some private feedback or talk about about a nomination. ] (]) 18:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
			::::I really believe that you will pass your RFA with flying colors. Regards! ] (]) 15:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	Welcome to the first edition of ''The Olive Branch''. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in ] (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are ], but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to ].
	]
	In this issue:
	* '''Background''': A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
	* '''Research''': The most recent DR data
	* '''Survey results''': Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
	* '''Activity analysis''': Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
	* '''DR Noticeboard comparison''': How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
	* '''Discussion update''': Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
	* '''Proposal''': It's time to close the ]. Agree or disagree?
	<big><center>]</center></big>
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 05:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
	--''The Olive Branch'' 19:20, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
	<!-- EdwardsBot 0345 -->
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	==Notice of Neutral point of view noticeboard discussion==
	Hello, North8000. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. {{#if:|The thread is ]. }}{{#if:|The discussion is about the topic ].}}<!--Template:NPOVN-notice--> Thank you. The section is '''Paul Ryan and speech reception'''. --] (]) 05:18, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks. I've just hopped in and out of that article but will leave a few comments there. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:38, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 04:30, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
			== Adding a section to a closed discussion. ==
	==User kwamikagami==
			Hi, I do not think it is a good idea to continue a closed discussion, like what you have done at ] 14 minutes after the closure of that discussion. I have planned to revert it, but due to uncertainty over how appropriate the revision really is (and how appropriate it would be to revert it), I have found it better to instead discuss that revision here with you. ] (]) 21:35, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
	I've spotted by chance that you seem to have problems with said user regarding edits and reverts thereof -- your entire first paragraph applies almost verbatim to an edit of mine he reverted @ the article about the Croatian language. Just thought I'd let you know that you're not the only one whose edits he twists to his liking. Cheers,
			:{{Ping|CarlFilip19}} What I did was both OK and appropriate. Including responding to a comment/accusation about me wrongly implying that I was out of line because I participated in a discussion without an invitation. Or I could have reopened it to make it even more official. But it would be improper to revert it. :-) Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:07, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
	<br>] (]) 22:17, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. I took a look there; the situations are remarkably similar. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:25, 9 September 2012 (UTC)		::{{Ping|North8000}} Thank you for nice response. Well, now that you say it, I will let you keep that comment of yours, especially to use an answer to resolve a conflict. ] (]) 14:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 12:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
	== Sticking my neck out ==
			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	Hi North8000! I've just stuck a fresh viewpoint in over at Great Lakes, wrt ]. Just wanted to throw in a personal note to someone involved in (I think arbitrating??) the - though tbh, that whole thing was just too depressing and partisan to get too involved in deciphering.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 15:30, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
	I'd appreciate some balanced thoughts from someone - and you seem like the ideal candidate! Essentially, my thoughts here seem to be that while kwamikagami seems to have a bit of an ongoing reputation and has been extremely inconsiderate/outright rude in reverting/flaming/etc on a variety of topics including this one, I think this might have blinded all the participants to the actual topic in hand. I'm concerned that little actual citing and sourcing has been happening in the whole discussion, and it's all got very personal. Can we start fresh? ] (]) 16:44, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
			:Done<b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 17:44, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	:Thanks for the post and your efforts. This has taken on various dimensions in various places and so it's hard to get into it it thoroughly without writing a book in a whole new place. But if I may noet a few core items:
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 17:32, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
	::*I have zero emotion on this.
	::*The core issue is the naming of the lakes, including how to refer to them in article. I don't think that anybody is against saying that in certain respects they behave as one lake.
	::*I have attempted much milder fixes on on and off over many months and Kwamikagami reverted even the tiniest of partial fixes. So, my original approach was just to tweak rather than redirect that article.
	::*More recently I have tried via more structured routes, i.e. to fix mis-use of reference, tag mysterious references for specifics, and tage unsourced material. Kwamikagami deleted each an every on of those changes and tags in an en masse and dismissive manner.
			== Review of Indian_Arm_Wrestling_Federation ==
	:Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:19, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
	::That makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for clueing me in. I guess we'll just see what happens... ] (]) 19:25, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
			Hi ]. Thanks for reviewing ]. ] (]) 03:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
	:::My pleasure. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
			:{{ping|Gardenkur}} Nice to hear from you again! Looks like all is going well. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
			Hi ]. Thanks for your response. Yes things are fine and hope the same with you. With other things on hand the contribution towards Misplaced Pages reduced, though efforts to improve this platform with guidance from all is always there. ] (]) 02:52, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
	===Discussion is scattered into at least 7 different places===
			== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
	I'm building this here and will post it elsewhere. The discussion on this is scattered into about 7 different places. In (roughly) descending order of amount of material they are:
	#]
	#]
	#]
	#]
	#]
	#]
	#]
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 07:31, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
	'''''So each of these locations is MISSING least 3/4 of the important material and discussions''''' <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:31, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
	== I saw your comment ==		== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 21:30, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
	I believe your suspicions may be correct that ] is using multiple accounts at the same time to edit. They showed up in after 13 days, with no prior participation. I think this should be investigated, but I don't know how to do it. Thanks. :) --] (]) 23:49, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
			==Notice of reliable sources noticeboard discussion==
			] There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ].<!--Template:RSN-notice--> Thank you. I am informing you because you have commented on a ]. <span class="nowrap">] (]) <small>(please ] me on reply)</small></span> 03:00, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	::I only complimented them on their amazing progression. An expert wiki-warrior by their 9th lifetime edit. :-) <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
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	::: Exactly. :-) --] (]) 00:37, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	== Volume Seventeen ==
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 09:31, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
	Hi North,
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:53, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
			== Sorry! ==
	Thank you for contributing to the ]. The article has been deleted. You mentioned that you were planning on starting a bundled AfD for ''Volume''-related articles. Is that still your intention?
			I had no idea that I until I got the ping. Must've hit revert with my fat fingers. &ndash;&nbsp;]&nbsp;(]) 22:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
	] (]) 14:47, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
	Thanks. The answer is yes. It would take me a few days to get it done. If you would prefer to do it, let me know....that would also be fine. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)		:{{Ping|Muboshgu}} Thanks for the post. I was wondering about that. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 22:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	== Merger discussion at Talk:Great Lakes ==
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	Please see my comment at the renaming discussion at Talk:Great Lakes. I am hoping this would be a satisfactory compromise for all involved. ] (]) 20:58, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
			:Done.
	:Thanks. Looks good. I commented there. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:03, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
	== Edit warring ==		== Page Review Request ==
			Greetings ], Hope you're having a great day! I was wondering if you could review a recent article I wrote about a record label ], please? Here's couple of independent sources - , , ,
	Contrary to your , I did take it to talk. In fact, I was there ''before'' I made any changes but you edit-warrred and never even said a word on the talk page. This is not good behavior. ] (]) 00:12, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
	:One edit is not "edit warring". I have not reviewed the history on this particular one, but have seen that overall you are the champion of such on articles related to the November election. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
	::Who are you trying to convince? ] (]) 00:16, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
	:::Just telling it like it is based on substantial observation. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:50, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
			Thank you! ] 13:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
	== Article probation on ] ==
			:{{Ping|Rydex64}} Looks like someone already did it. Happy editing! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
	] Thank you for ] to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed, ], is on ]. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at ]. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.<br><br>''The above is a ]. Please accept it as a routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits. Thank you.''<!-- Template:uw-probation --> --v/r - ]] 00:37, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	== Please work with me ==
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 16:32, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
	If you would like to convert them to references that is fine but I'm going to ask that you revert yourself and work from the version in history because a.) it is against policy to link inline and b. ) because I'm looking at purging out promotion and your edit does not help me. Cheers,<br />&nbsp;—&nbsp;] ] 14:56, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
			==Ami Dror==
	:That's fine. I was just thinking that it would be lot easier (= a lot faster) to do if we could work from content that is IN the article. Please let me know what you think of that; I will self-revert in the meantime. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:08, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
			Why did you move that article to mainspace when rejected article to mainspace? '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 14:10, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|scope_creep}} I don't know what you mean by the 2nd half of your sentence, but regarding the first half, IMO it's very solid that there is no reason for it to not be in mainspace. And on what is likely the main question, IMO has sourcing to solidly meet GNG, much more solid that a typical new article. In your AFD nom, you indicated that is has some low quality sources, I did not review all 57 sources, just enough to confirm GNG compliance. If some (or many) of the other 57 have the problems that you describe, that is not a reason to delete the article or preclude it from mainspace. BTW, I plan to move this thread to my talk page. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
			::Sorry, I posted this really quickly. I thought it was your talk page. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 15:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
			:::See what the Afd says I guess. I can't believe I posted to your user page. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">]<sup>]</sup></span>''' 15:33, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
			::::{{Ping|scope_creep}} No sweat. Wish you the best and thanks for your work. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
			== May 2024 NPP backlog drive – Points award ==
	::Thank you. I was trying to pursue a promotional matter (not finished). Using to review for linking is fine; leaving them in may be what taught ] a bad example. I do understand your thoughts and not trying to create more work for editors. No problems.<br />&nbsp;—&nbsp;] ] 15:21, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
	::::Cool. BTW if you have a feel for which ones are prominent, I sure could use such expertise for review / modification of the short list of these at the "Notable venues" section at ] article. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	== Michigan-Huron ==
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | ]
			|rowspan="2" |
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" |
			'''The New Page Patroller's Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray; width:100%;" | This award is given in recognition to North8000 for accumulating at least 100 points during the May 2024 NPP backlog drive. Your contributions helped play a part in the 14,452 reviews completed during the drive. Thank you so much for taking part and contributing to help reduce the backlog! ] (]) 18:58, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
			|}
			== Page Review Request ==
	In the spirit of letting the geo people handle this, could you revert your edit ? That wasn't Ken reverting you by mistake, but Alan specifically correcting you, as . — ] (]) 00:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
			Hey @], Hope you're having a great day! I wrote an article about ] back in March, and it's not reviewed yet. I'd really appreciate it if you can take a look! :) Thanks as always! ] 09:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
	:I don't know what the heck happenned. I only intended to edit one sentence (tweak the last sentence in the lead)! I'll see if I can still revert that edit. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:32, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|Rydex64}} Hello Rydex64. I really don't do "respond to request" reviews about current personalities/groups engaged in a business. This one would need a large amount of work going through all of the references to see if there some GNG references which it would need to have in order to pass wp:notability. But if you'd like to help pick out the references most likely to be GNG references, I'd be happy to review. This would be to select the 2-3 references which best meet the following criteria: Independent, published sources which cover Tech Panda & Kenzani in depth. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:30, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
	::I tried to revert myself but couldn't due to the large number of edits that occurred since. Sorry! I'll try to revert them individually. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
			::Hey @], Oh apologies, I forgot to mention they're an Electronic music group/band. And surely, I will select the 3 best references for you to review easily. Here - , , Thanks!
			::: Hey hey @], Sorry for the ping! I think the previous message might have slipped through your mind. Could you please take a look when you have a couple of minutes? Thanks a lot! :)
			::::{{Ping|Rydex64}} Sorry I missed that you already looked. The first is just to the article but I did review it. Happy editing! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:58, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
			:::::Oops! Sorry haha, It was an accident. But, thanks for the review. Appreciate it! Cheers.
			== Note regarding attribution of merges in page history ==
	It may have been an old version; while you had the window open, someone else edited, so you reverted their changes. (Just a guess.) That's not supposed to be able to happen—your save is supposed to be blocked due to the edit conflict—but it happens to me occasionally. No idea why.
			] Thank you for ] to Misplaced Pages. It appears that you copied or moved text from one or more pages into ]. While you are welcome to re-use Misplaced Pages's content, here or elsewhere, ] does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Misplaced Pages, this is supplied at minimum in an ] at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and ] to the copied page, e.g., <code>copied content from <nowiki>]</nowiki>; see that page's history for attribution</code>. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{tl|copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-copying --> — ]&nbsp;<sub>]</sub> 17:45, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
	Don't know if you saw my response on ANI. I'm happy to strike out any comments besmirching your intelligence. Just show me where, so I don't miss any. I apologize for those. While you refused to show you understood the hydrodynamics (evidently you thought I would take it as an admission I was right?), I honestly thought it was because you didn't understand, that you couldn't explain it, and that you were another of those dimwits who believe that if they don't understand st, it can't be true. Actually, I was just trying to determine if you understood why sources would call it a lake/body of water, so I could ID that, or rule it out, as the problem. Feel free to use my talk page if you want; I stopped you because the argument was going in circles for ''pages'', and I thought you simply didn't understand, so there wasn't any point to continuing. Now that I see wasn't the case, it would just be a matter of the verbiage; you've explained your POV multiple times and I still don't get it, so I'm not sure continuing would be useful, unless you can think of a new approach. Anyway, start a new section if you do, so the old one will archive faster, and my intemperate remarks (struck out or not) will be removed sooner from public view. — ] (]) 00:54, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
	:Thank you for that. This whole thing has been too giant to try to distill here. Long story short, my thoughts towards you have always been friendly, a fellow human being that has done a lot for Wikpedia, even when I feel that it is my duty to butt heads with you or (in my mind, rightly or wrongly) try to prevent you from doing harm. In this case, while I'm quite fluent in the scientific & technical areas, what I've been applying here is not that, but my curse/blessing of seeing the logical or illogical statements contained in wording and context. Maybe that has been putting us on different wavelengths or talking different languages. For example, I may be viewing a phrase as a "statement of name" and you may be viewing it as an introduction of a scientific concept. Either way, lets just be genuine friends and consider the article (even if we butt heads over it) to be secondary. With lots of folks involved, all of the current trends and all of the near term possible outcomes are fine. And as long as you don't intend to undo what they did when they're gone, I think that this is near-settled permanently. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:24, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|Red-tailed hawk}} Thanks for the note. I was thinking that it was obvious because I noted in the edit summary that it was implementing a merged decided at AFD, and the talk page discussed what the source article was. But better to also put it into the edit summary which I didn't do. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:11, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
	== Honeywell images ==
			== Request to review proposed undo ==
	Hi North. This is King4057 - I changed my username. FYI - I added a bunch of Honeywell's images to Honeywell pages as ] and I added a few that don't mention Honeywell and aren't distinguishable as Honeywell products as non-COI edits. The remainder are in request edits.
			Greetings, @]. Grateful if you could kindly have a look at ] and let me know what you think. It's about a merger you made from ] a Thank you. —] (]) 11:01, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
	I seem to have lost track of taking a quick cleanup shot at the ] article. I'll do a fresh copy-paste of the article tonight and see what I can throw together. ] 03:47, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
			:Happy to. I posted there. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
			== Your random pages survey ==
	:Hi North. It won't win an award any time soon, but I did a rough cleanup of the . You can see detailed edit notes and some comments on the Talk page. My main effort was cutting about 13,000 bytes that was redundant, off-topic, promotional, etc. and providing a more sensible structure. ] 05:16, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
			Hello North8000, I stumbled across ]. Would you mind if I add it to ]? It seems to be among the largest conducted! – ]''']''' ] 11:18, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
	::Cool! I'll be on wiki only a few minutes today and then off-wiki for 9 days so I'm afraid that's about the best I can offer a the moment. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 09:32, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
			{{Ping|Teratix}} Thanks for asking. Please do! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:33, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
	==What is SYNTHESIS?==
			== New pages patrol September 2024 Backlog drive ==
	I have just noticed on the SYN board I have independantly made almost an identical statement to yourself regarding the use of synthesis, i.e. that most Wiki articles contain an element of it. I'm not sure if that places me in agreement or not regarding if we should be more, or less rigorous regarding SYN, or just better at identifing false positives and false negatives. The main problem I have is that some users seem to believe this policy is well defined and clear. Until we have better guidelines I really think it is open to the most blatent abuse. So do we need better guidance and more examples on what is and isn't acceptable practice? --] (]) 18:42, 29 September 2012 (UTC) Sorry not signed with my name for some reason, let's try again! --] (]) 09:02, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. I was off the grid for 9 days and will be spotty for the next few days, so if you don't mind a short answer for now...... My answer is the same as for several other policies and guidelines where normal practices require / involve violating a strict interpretation of them. They work fine when editors are co-operating and are failures when editors are not. IMHO the main answer is similar to the others where there is such a conflict between reality and (literal) policy. Go to some pages where they ARE working, analyze what is happening there through a lens of a rigorous reading and application of policies and core guidelines, find the conflicts and then rewrite the policies so that there is no longer a conflict between the letter of them and reality. And a second prong would be to require a good faith questioning of the material (not just raising of a wiki-lawyering point) when bringing a policy to bear on it. This would be just procedural; once it is raised, they would not need debate the question that they raised.
			{| style="border: 5px solid #ABCDEF ; background-color: #FFF; color: #000; padding:10px 15px 0"
	:In the case of synthesis, this would mean to learn/understand the normal amount of "synthesis" / summarization that is the norm at successful articles and rewrite the policy to define that as OK and the limit of OK.
			|style="padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; font-size:130%" |'''] |''' <span style="font-size:85%">]</span>
			|rowspan=3|]
	:BTW I've been noodling on this and other similar topics at ]
			|-
			|
	:Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
			* On 1 September 2024, a one-month backlog drive for new pages patrol will begin.
			* Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled.
	== October 2012 ==
			* Barnstars will also be granted for re-reviewing articles previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive.
	You currently appear to be engaged in an ]&#32; according to the reverts you have made on ]. Users are expected to ] with others, to avoid editing ], and to ] rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.<br>
			* Each article review will earn 1 point, and each redirect review will earn 0.2 points.
	Please be particularly aware, ] states:
			* Interested in taking part? ''']'''.
	# '''Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made'''; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
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	If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's ] to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents ] among editors. You can post a request for help at an ] or seek ]. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary ]. If you engage in an edit war, you '''may be ] from editing.'''<!-- Template:uw-ew --> ] (]) 23:06, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
			|}
	:Quit the crap. I am not edit warring. Somebody put in clearly false material with zero basis in the edit summary and I took it out twice. You are writing to the wrong person. Write them and tell them to take their beyond-controversial proposed edit to talk. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:11, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
			] (]) 17:10, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
	::You most certainly are edit warring:
			<!-- Message sent by User:DreamRimmer@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:New_pages_patrol/Reviewers/Newsletter_list&oldid=1242377836 -->
	::*18:37, 7 October 2012‎ North8000 (talk | contribs)‎ . . (19,416 bytes) (-880)‎ . . (Undid revision 516503680 by Wikiwind (talk) Wording corrected an error and no rationale has been given for going to the erroneous wording (that them is used only by conservative Christians))
	::*7 October 2012‎ North8000 (talk | contribs)‎ . . (19,416 bytes) (-880)‎ . . (Undid revision 516520995 by [[Special:Contributions/2A01 No explanation why putting in a clearly false POV statement (that the term is used only by conservative Christians) is "restoring proper NPOV" .
	::Where did you discuss your changes on the talk page? Also, the page history gives the appearance that you are tag teaming with Belchfire. ] (]) 23:21, 7 October 2012 (UTC
	:::Where is the beyond-controversial item that somebody is trying to war in discussed? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:14, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::The "tag teaming" is more crap. Unless I am mistaken I have edited the article only twice in it's history! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:18, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Have you used the talk page to discuss your edits, or do you just revert to any version Belchfire reverts to, especially since he just returned from vacation? ] (]) 00:37, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::I don't even know who who Belchfire is much less their vacation schedule. Again, unless I am mistaken, I've only edited this article twice in it's history. In which case you are in severe baseless breach of wp:npa. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::I think you know who he is and this isn't the first time. You're on the same WikiProject, remember? ] (]) 00:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)+
	::::::::That's a completely different article. You're not even making any sense. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:28, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::::It's the same tag teaming behavior on two different articles from two different editors who belong to the same WikiProject. It makes a lot of sense. ] (]) 01:36, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::::::What WikiProject are you talking about? I'm a member of a zillion of them. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:37, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	== Reinserting copyright link - edit war ==
	Hi North8000, I'm concerned that you're reinserted these video links, despite me removing them for the stated copyright concern policy. I have no wish to edit war with you, so as I've made you aware, I shall leave it here thanks. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span>; ]</span> 23:42, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
	:Hello Widefox. If you said that there was something indicating a copyvio concern, I missed it. (?????) If there is something indicating a concern with them, please indicate what it is and we should take them out, and I'd agree. Sincerely. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	::I removed these links stating the ] issue . You added these links back in . Despite , , (above) #5 , (now) #6 times, you haven't talked about ]? did you read ]? What makes you think it does not apply? what was your reasoning to add them? Not sure if you're taking copyright infringement seriously enough, do you? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span>; ]</span> 01:09, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::I'm not following. All of those edits just name the external links policy. None say any reason for concern regarding the links / linked material in question. Is there one? Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:33, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::are you willing to talk about your edit or not? in the absence of you justifying it...can I conclude you haven't read that LINKVIO? and you have not provided any justification for your edit per your burden. As you refuse to justify your edit against the policy, despite me warning you that you are making a clear copyright infringement of linking to material uploaded without owner's consent, I have tagged as such in the article ready for being dealt with. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span>; ]</span> 02:20, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::Yes, of course I am willing to talk about it. And if you would just give me a straight answer to the question that I asked, we could probably settle this in two minutes. Do you have reason to believe that the two linked off-wiki uses are without the owner's consent? Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::With respect, I'm still waiting for the reason you put them back in - you haven't yet provided any reasoning! (BTW your reasoning does not depend on my viewpoint.) The exact problem is marked for all to see, along with this dialogue. Please take copyright infringement more seriously next time. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span>; ]</span> 08:01, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::I put them back in because they benefit the article and because you have not given any reasons for taking them out. And no, you have not indicated any specific problem, your supposed statement of the "exact problem" is just a reference to an entire policy and implies that it is being violated, with no statement about the supposed violation. And while refusing to discuss / instead of discussing the SPECIFICS of the situation you instead fling vage baseless accusations such as "don't care about copyvio", and baselessly accusing the other editors there and I of being socks of each other. Reinforcing what I said below, please cease this baseless accusatory behavior immediately or I will report you. And you STILL won't even give me a straight answer to my question which is: Do you have reason to believe that the two linked off-wiki uses are without the owner's consent? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:48, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	== Futanari ==
	Could you read this over and tell me whether or not you think this is real or an artistic thing in the ]. I need a second opinion. Is is a gender identity or a fictional phenomenon-] (]) 08:04, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	Here's the article ]. I trust your opinion so thanks.-] (]) 08:11, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	:I'd be happy to. I'll have only a few minutes on wiki during the next 16 hours so please pardon any delay or brevity. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:05, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	::I took a look; I also did a quick web search. 98% of the article treats it as a form of art, not a gender identity. And ditto/100% for the first 20 hits on the web. But then there is the first sentence of the article (capitalization added by me): "Futanari (....literally "dual form") is '''THE''' Japanese word for androgyny or hermaphroditism." The two sources given for this sentence were not easily checkable. If the sentence is true, then the whole article has jumped the tracks by only coverign the form of art aspect. I suspect / my guess is that the "'''THE'''" should really be an "'''A'''", and that this word primarily refers to the art form, and is not the main Japanese word for androgyny or hermaphroditism. Either way, the lead is supposed to summarize what is in the article, and so the sentence with the "THE" in it does not match the article. Let me know if you'd like me to do anything else (comment there etc.) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:08, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	== Using multiple accounts / IPs ==
	Hello North8000, I hope you don't mind me asking, but are you using multiple accounts / (IP editing as well). The style of edits is very similar on ] and it is acting like a tag team. I find this disruptive and others have warned you above this is against policy, so just wanted to know, OK? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span>; ]</span> 08:45, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	:I do mind you asking, and your (wrong) presumed answer and mischaracterization of the situation is even worse. This is getting so bad that I am on the borderline of reporting you. But I'll answer it anyway. The answer is no, absolutely not. I have no need, desire or inclination to edit as an IP. And BTW, what do mean that the "style of edits is very similar". I just took a look and EVERYTHING about their style edits, approach and even areas of involvement is totally different. What is your basis for that false assessment? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:06, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
	::Sorry if my question offended you, it was meant to understand, nothing more. Now that is cleared up, I have asked the other editors. Not sure if you have noticed those? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span>; ]</span> 07:55, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::I haven't noticed, but I haven't really looked at who is doing what. My awareness there is limited to a burst of "organizing" type activity (sectionalizing etc.) in response to the multiple new tags put on, and restoring the external links section which you deleted. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:21, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
	==File permission problem with File:DorothyMolterWelcome.jpg==
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	:It was uploaded after I obtained explicit written permission. I indicated such with the upload, including the name of the person who gave permission and that that did so. Then I immediately get this notice that it slated for deletion in seven days. Nice thank-you and help for someone going through all of this work and proper handling for the sake of Misplaced Pages. What a crappy system or crappy worst-case interpretation of it by you. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:02, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
	All settled. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:15, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
	==Notable canoeist==
	Hello North8000, I just did a edit where I moved content in "notable canoeists" to ] and/or ]. You reverted that with the comment "Lets wait until this material is placed elsewhere" ... but that's exactly what I did. I placed it elsewhere. Namely in ] and ]. With the exception of the last two who do not appear to qualify as notable. --] (]) 17:56, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
	:Answered there. But to recap here, I agree with your plan. But I looked then and just looked again and don't see that they got moved. Can you double check and / or point me to it? Thanx. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:58, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
	::I think that you put the "keepers" from the non-traditional half of that section into the other article, so I undid my restoration of that half, and renamed what remains accordingly. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:54, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
	== An FYI for you ==
	http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/North8000
	Figured you'd want to know, since he certainly isn't willing to have that common courtesy. Second time he's tried to have me checkusered, too. ] (]) 11:51, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks. Here's what I just wrote there: This is beyond ridiculous, it is a baseless personal attack. Per the above, the complaint is entirely baseless. I was tempted to invite the investigation as step one of taking them to wp:ani for this personal attack, but I decided not to. Further, I was never even notified of this until Thargor Orlando did so. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:03, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
	::He recently got dragged to arbcom for tendentious behavior at one of the psychology articles (which I assume is why he disappeared for two weeks) and has apparently learned nothing from it. I figure this will sort itself out eventually. ] (]) 12:15, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::It got quickly closed. Basically, not even a shred of a basis to pursue. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:35, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
	== Healthcare DRN ==
	is up. ] (]) 15:32, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
	Since you showed an interest in Americana (music) maybe you can take a look at ] where the same editor is upsetting what I think is the right balance. I've posted on project pages but no sign of interest, as you say the topic is probably rather minor but at least people should be able to look it up and find out something meaningful. ] (]) 17:15, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
	== Americana again ==
	Since you showed an interest in Americana (music) maybe you can take a look at ] where the same editor is upsetting what I think is the right balance. I've posted on project pages but no sign of interest, as you say the topic is probably rather minor but at least people should be able to look it up and find out something meaningful. ] (]) 17:19, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks. I've been gone a couple of days but will do. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:36, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
	== AfD ==		== AfD ==
			Double votes going on AFD ]. ] is very much dsrprj (creator of the page). dsrprj says in vote, "Does not look like a BLP1E to me" and the IP says, "My only lingering concern would be WP:BLP1E." Dsrprj double voted before so won't be surprised by this. ] (]) 10:53, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
	Would you mind taking another look at your vote at ]? You wrote that you had not reviewed or analyzed the references. Cavarrone and I seem to agree that this guy does not pass ], be he does think the guy passes ]. I do not get it. The guy has not had a major role in any notable film. I admit that my interest my be somewhat vanity, but I do think I am correct. With the exception of this article's odd AfD ], I have been on the right side of the vote each time I've voted in my various spurts of AfD voting! I even reconsidered at the request of the article's creator . I did all of the ] stuff, especially D. If you really think it is a timing issue, I could withdraw the nomination, wait and renominate in the future, but I do not get what that would benefit. Regardless of how good or bad the particular article is, I think it is up to us to figure out whether the guy does or not, like I did at ]. ] (]) 00:50, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
	:Yes, I'd happy to do that. I'll write more after I do. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:54, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
	::Took a look. Please consider this to be conversational, not a finding. Also I think that you had some posts at the wp:ani on this. You might want to read my main comment there for a certain perspective that I might have, particularly regarding a concern that it may have been aggressively edited with deletion as a goal/bias and might still be in that state. So my comments relate more to the situations (e.g. recommending the "cooling off and recovery" period).
	::So the question becomes, what if I knew none of that and just reviewed the article based on IT'S CURRENT FORM. (I'm semi-active at wp:afd). I tend to just use wp:gng when saying "keep" and tend to skip past the ones where it's on the fence for wp:gng and a core claim is a SNG. On that, in its current state I'd probably be somewhere between "Weak keep" and "Keep". Basis would be the coverage in reference #3 & #7, (based on today's numbering) with some plusses thrown in for in-depth coverage at one more which may not be a wp:rs plus briefer coverage or mentions in a lot of other prominent sources. Regarding RW notability (which can be an indicator of wp:notability) he seems to have had a lot of small parts in significant productions. I normally wouldn't look at ], but now I just did. Under that I guess the "prolific" would offer a second potential way in in addition to wp:gng. But my actual strong feeling is what I posted there. This article needs a rest and recovery period while the heat, dust and damage from the war settles and any possible rebound of material and references. But my further research does lead me to strike one item from my comment. (see there) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:56, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::Thank you. I thought 3 & 7 were blogs and not Reliable Sources, but I could be wrong. If this article survives the AfD, I doubt there will be a rebound. I have searched for other Reliable Sources and I do not think they exist today, but maybe they will in the future. FWIW, I do not think you have given a reason for a "keep" vote, but more of a comment on the timing. Would you vote delete in six months if nothing changes at the article, and more importantly, no new sources are out there for the referencing whether they are in the article or not? If so, I could see waiting, otherwise I do not understand why we would wait. If new references appear in the future, we could recreate the article based on those sources even if we delete it now and then I would vote "keep." ] (]) 02:19, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::BTW, I did post at the ANI . It was my idea to put the article up at AfD. ] (]) 02:22, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::BTW, for my "continuation" concern, I originally couldn't find the links given for who was canvassed and thus could not resolve that question in my mind at the time. Subsequently I found them and found that it was a person with a history at the article of just trying to do the right thing there (you) and so struck that. Regarding your other question, I would be happy to agree that if this article were given a rest and recovery period that I would abstain from weighing in at any future AFD. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:28, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
	::::::I don't want you to abstain, I want you to agree with me! (laughing) ] (]) 00:00, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::::::If its any consolation, my answer is based on my own lack of knowledge of the subject and of the available references at this time. :-) <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:10, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service ==
	== ] ==
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ], and &#32;at ], and &#32;at ], and &#32;at ], and &#32;at ], and &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 12:44, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
	Hi North, I don't want to distract you from the important work of streamlining WP:COI, but I would love your close read of a draft of proposed voluntary ethical principles and practices for COI editors, especially corporate/for-profit editors. It's at ]. Cheers, ]<sup> ]&#124;]</sup> 05:42, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
	:I'd be happy to do that. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:55, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
			:Done (5 of the 6) <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:03, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
	== Request ==
			== Feedback request: History and geography request for comment ==
	Hi, North8000. I wonder, would you please consider striking the third sentence you wrote ? ] (]) 15:08, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
	:This is an individual who made 4 completely false and baseless accusations off topic of the conversation. I thought calling such uncivilized was mild. But I could edit to soften / narrow it to just the behavior of the moment. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:08, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 03:30, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
	== ] ==
			== Duke Buchan ==
	I went ahead and proposed insertion as an RfC. I haven't widely advertised it yet, so if you'd take an early look I'd appreciate it. ] (]) 14:32, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
	::Happy to. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:38, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
	:::I put a new draft up. I hope this addresses most of the concerns. ] (]) 14:08, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
			Hi North8000, I've been working on updating ]'s page. As you are a member of ], I thought you may be interested in reviewing ]. Thank you, appreciate your time and assistance. ] (]) 13:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
	== ] ==
			:I didn't think I was a member of that project but I'd be happy to look at the article. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
	Suggest more careful reading and editing of edits, before undoing them all too hastily?
			:Found it....got invited 13 years ago and said I was more libertarian. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:39, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
	Examples:
	* Most canoes nowadays are made of Polyethylene, not fiberglass anymore
	* Fiberglass is not fairly cheap, but often costs more than Royalex or Polyethylene
	* Kevlar and Fiberglass do not have to lack rigidity in well made lay-ups (in fact the advantage of Kevlar is that one can make a light AND rigid enough canoe with this material.)
	* Aluminum is not _very_ strong by weight (compared to Royalex). But it does _not_ degrade by from from long term exposure to sunlight
	] (]) 12:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	Would be happy to engage in a dialog but as you listed it above it is too confusing. First you did about 20 significant changes in one edit, IMO the majority of which (but not all) are problematic. It's asking too much for someone to identify and change all 15 individually. Hence my suggestion to split them up a bit. On your points above:
	#Do not agree the "most canoes nowadays are made of polyethylene" and it is unsourced. And, either way, I don't see any edit that says the above.
	#Agree with that change, it was one of the 25%.
	#For layup construction, it's a matter of thickness. Most are lighter weight which equates to thinness which equates to non-rigid.
	#On the sunlight, you replaced a clearly wrong typo with a half-wrong statement. Not sure which is better.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 17:30, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
	Let's just unbundle them and handle. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:34, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 15:10, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment ==
	> Do not agree the "most canoes nowadays are made of polyethylene" and it is unsourced.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 11:30, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
	Study the catalogs of a couple of canoe manufacturers?
			==Happy First Edit Day!==
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			}}
			:{{ping|Cowboygilbert}} thanks! 15 years flew by. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 02:33, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
	::(inserted later) About 700 days of canoeing (500 on wilderness trips) in a wide range of canoes, and have seen about 10,000 canoes that were in use. Read about 60 canoeing books and about 400 canoeing magazines. # of catalog listings does not equate to use. Either way, any such claims if contested should be well sourced. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			==Happy First Edit Day!==
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			| text = <big>'''Happy First Edit Day!'''</big><br />Hi North8000! On behalf of the ], I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made and became a Wikipedian! ] (]) 02:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
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			== Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society ==
			] Dear {{PAGENAME}},
			I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the ''']''', an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Misplaced Pages project for fifteen years or more. &#x200B;
	> And, either way, I don't see any edit that says the above.
			Best regards, ] (]) 02:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
	"Fiberglass is the most common material used in manufacturing canoes."
			{{clear}} <!-- Template:Fifteen Year Society invitation --><span id="The_Herald:1726454819886:User_talkFTTCLNNorth8000" class="FTTCmt">—&nbsp;] (]) 02:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)</span>
			== History section of ] ==
	::(inserted later) Agree we should take out <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			Dear ], thanks for your efforts! On 15-16 September 2024 I edited ]. You reverted and wrote: "You are doing massive reassignment of credit for Neural Networks based on your interpretation of their work and primary sources and deleting secondary sourced assignments. Please slow down and take such major reassignments to talk first." So that's what I am doing now. (Not quite sure whether this should be done on the article's talk page or your own.) Please note that most of my edits just resurrected important old references deleted on 7 August 2024 in a major edit when ] (whose efforts I appreciate) tried to compress the text‎. I also fixed links in some of the old references, added a few new ones (both primary and secondary sources), corrected many little errors, and tried to streamline some of the explanations. IMO these edits substantially improved the history section of the article, although a lot remains to be done. Now I'd like to ask you: please check out the details and revert your revert! Best regards, ] (]) 16:42, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
	> It's asking too much for someone to identify and change all 15 individually.
			:Hello {{Ping|Speedboys}} Thanks for your work and your post. The series of rapid fire edits ended up being entangled where they an't be reviewed/ potentially reverted separately. In that bundle were several which IMO pretty creatively shifted/assigned credit for being the one to pioneer various aspect. So I'm not open to reinstating that whole linked bundle including those. Why not just slow down and put those things back in at a pace where they can be reviewed? And the the ones that are are a reach (transferring or assigning credit for invention) take to talk first. You are most familiar with the details of your edits and are in the best position to know those. I'd be happy to discuss at either place, but may I suggest having this general discussion here and any more specific ones at the article? Happy editing! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:09, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
			::], thanks! Well, all the edits are backed by important references, and most of them aren't novel, just resurrecting old stuff deleted in a massive edit of 7 August 2024 that (unlike mine) has remained unchallenged so far. At your suggestion, I put it in the article's talk page. ] (]) 21:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
			== NPPing species ==
	Here we clearly disagree, also because my edits were clearly visible and overseeable (in my browser at least). And, as far as I know, Misplaced Pages does not prefer unnecessary editing detail after detail?
			I'm curious how NPP plans to patrol articles on animal species? To meet the proposed guidance of "valid name exists" a species only needs to be published (no restrictions on being academic or peer-reviewed) using the oldest available, non-invalidated name purporting to be that new taxon. This would mean even a single self-published journal article would be sufficient for a species to have a valid name and therefore warrant a standalone article. And since at least some curated databases do not assess scientific merit of species descriptions they will automatically designate such species as having a "valid name" unless and until someone else publishes something calling it into question -- which means we technically could also have a reliable source for this species even if it is not secondary, independent, or significant. ] (]) 00:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
	::(inserted later) That would take a book to answer. But more narrowly, "R" in wp:BRD should be considered reasonable when a large amount of arguable edits are bundled; after which splitting them up a bit is a reasonable expectation. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			{{Ping|JoelleJay}} Thanks for the post. Didn't quite understand that last sentence. My first thoughts regarding the other items in your post:
	ADDIT:
			*Several folks who know this area a lot better than me spent a good amount of time developing the proposal. And so sooner or later it needs to go up for an RFC rather than dying under it's own weight like many discussions do. I think that it pretty clear that people would be open to tweaking it/ modifying it. IMO such a two-step process is probably even the best way to move forward. Get something reasonable in place and then have a separate conversation on where it needs changes. Or maybe it will go fine as currently written.
			*Regarding "how NPP plans to patrol articles on animal species", I don't think that there is an overall plan. Speaking for myself, I'll need to learn / get fluency on that area to evaluate that sourcing. I'm guessing that once I do, patrolling one of those will be 20 times easier than the kinds of situations that we are already dealing with. Like in gng-dependent sports articles where the standard is technically GNG but in practice it isn't.
			*After the (presumed positive) close, if you have an idea on a change to improve it, I'd be happy to work on it with you and support it.
			Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
			::Well, the issue as I see it is that the proposal claims that it's impossible to have a valid name without reputable academic sources when this is flatly false for millions of species. Before this proposal, you could dismiss self-published sources via WP:V; but if this passes we now have a guideline explicitly endorsing creation of articles based only on one self-published source. You could argue that WP:V overrides this, but then we're already actively flouting WP:PRIMARY so why should we expect people to observe the one policy but not the other?
			:The point I was trying to make with the last sentence is that even if someone ''is'' trying to avoid self-published sources (even though they would satisfy the guideline), they may assume that the content in a database is RS and secondary when actually it isn't. I showed that mollusks have essentially zero oversight in the mollusk database -- some species get "valid name" status immediately on publication of the primary discovery paper because the author is also a curator for the database, and some species still get this status automatically despite being self-published by someone known to be a taxonomic vandal. We likely have hundreds (maybe thousands? we'd need @] to query this) of articles sourced only to this database (or that plus the primary source) that have had no documented secondary evaluation at all and yet would be impossible to delete with this guideline in place. ] (]) 22:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
			::{{ping|JoelleJay}} Starting with the caveat that you have more expertise than me on this.... Let's be pragmatic on this. Positing that it passes, is there a recommended change that you would make? Or let's discuss to potentially develop one. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 23:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
			:I detailed some changes that should happen in a reply somewhere in that discussion. ] (]) 23:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	> For layup construction, it's a matter of thickness. Most are lighter weight which equates to thinness which equates to non-rigid.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 03:31, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
	Most of the fiberglass and kevlar canoes that I have paddled are more rigid than canoes made from PE or Royalex. (AFAIK only the Royalex Dagger Interlude was comparable in rigidity with a FRP hull.)
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	::(inserted later) Agree on fiberglass and PE, not on Kevlar & Royalex. Including based on a chance to slap a whole bunch of them at the Old Town factory last year. It's not that Kevlar is inherently less rigid. It's that it is so strong that it can be used to make thinner boats, and that (due to it's high strength and high cost) it is usually used to make light (thinner, less rigid) boats. (Of course that is referring to the areas which aren't ribbed.) The same in reverse for Royalex...the common use is simply thicker = more rigid. But either way, contested claims need to be well sourced. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
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			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
			==Query==
	] (]) 12:47, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			Hello, North8000,
			I was looking into the situation of a blocked editor after seeing one of their drafts, see ] and noticed that you posted over 30 messages to their User talk page after they were blocked, encouraging them on their editing. While well-intentioned, this seems excessive to me. I'm not sure if these notifications happen automatically or whether you chose to post 30+ talk page messages but I think you should limit the messages to 2 or 3 per day or it easily could be overwhelming especially when it is the exact same message each time. I can see that perhaps you didn't know that the editor was blocked and couldn't respond but it's still just a helluva a lot of messages to an editor on the same day.
	:Hello Kanoniem/Dirk Barends, (same account)
			If this is editing behavior that you no longer do, then just ignore this message but I saw this flood of messages (and I've seen it on other user talk pages) and just thought I'd comment. But thanks to you for the encouragement you deliver, I just think you could dial it back a little. I hope you are having a great weekend. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 03:08, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
	:Answers in line above. My thought is to just split them up a bit more, and only put back in contested claims if they are well sourced, and to just keep editing. It will work out, and I'm sure you'll do a lot of good.
			:Hello {{Ping|Liz}} Thanks for the post. I usually like to leave a quick nice note after a NPP review. That was sort of an freak occurrence, (being many reviews of articles by the same person at the same time ). With trying to help on the huge NPP backlog, I usually don't take any extra time to look into the editor or even notice the editor's name. But for the reasons I noted, it's no biggee and easy to do to avoid those unusual occurrences. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 12:43, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
			== RFA2024 update: Discussion-only period now open for review ==
	:Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			Hi there! The trial of the <strong>RfA discussion-only period</strong> passed at ] has concluded, and after open discussion, the RfC is now considering whether to retain, modify, or discontinue it. You are invited to participate at ''']'''. Cheers, and happy editing! ] (]) 09:38, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
	:> # of catalog listings does not equate to use.
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	:The statement was not about "use" but about "made". Most canoes _made_ nowadays are from PE. Therefore I think the statement "Fiberglass is the most common material used in manufacturing canoes" is not true anymore. Both claims would possibly be difficult for decent sourcing: asking Old Town would be a way to find out, but doesn't count?
			] from the past month (September 2024).
	] (]) 15:10, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			]
	::Hello Kanoniem. I think we already agreed that the "Fiberglass is the most common material" should go. But IMHO saying that most are PE is certainly wrong. Could you be thinking that the other common types are PE ? (I.E. ABS, Royalex, layups etc). Either way, we can let good sourcing settle it. And if not, maybe we should just leave out "most are" statements. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:37, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	:: I do know that in Europe most canoes made/sold by Old Town and others are PE, but the situation in North-America may be somewat different, because lighter weight is more valued because of the portaging? But leaving that kind of statements out is fine with me, because we do not know it for sure, and it is not vital information here. ] (]) 20:12, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
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	:::I guess it depends on where one goes / is at etc. I see thousands of outfitter's canoes in Ely MN, a tiny town that launches about 250,000 people per year on wilderness canoe trips. There's I'd guess 55% are aluminum, (due to ownership cost, 95% of the shores are solid rock) 30% are Kevlar, (for light weight on portages, rental for those is double the aluminum price) and 15% are all other types combined. Just a personal guess from looking at all of them. Serious river canoe rental places seem big on fiberglass. And the more casual rental places seem real heavy on PE. But I think that your last sentence says what we should do. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:50, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
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	==Stones Bitter==
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	Thanks for a very sound and well conducted review. ] (]) 01:28, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
			* Following ], the speedy deletion reason "File pages without a corresponding file" has been moved from criterion ] to ]. This does not change what can be speedily deleted.
	:It is a good article that deserves Good Article. Nice work! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:37, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
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	I'm feeling slightly guily about renominating this but as discussed, it still only has 1 article and that hasn't changed. I don't think the policy is clear but I won't renominate it again. ]
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			----
	:Thanks for the note. I'm 99% off the web for 6 days The most important thing is to do what you think is best for Misplaced Pages, while continuing to learn and re-evaluate as things progress. Even if I don't agree. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:53, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
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	::Thanks for pursuing what you feel is best for Misplaced Pages. That is primary; the fact that we disagreed is secondary. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:18, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
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	== ANI ==
			== ] ==
	Hello. There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is ]. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. - ]] 19:48, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
	:Actually, false accusations against me at an ANI. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:43, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
			Hello @] - it would be great if you could comment at the above link ] (]) 19:00, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
	Apologies for deleting your reply, i don't know how i managed that. Please reply to the questions though. Thanks ''']<font color="purple">]</font> <sup>(])</sup>''' 13:06, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	:Which question? I really don't see one in your last post. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:17, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
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	Hello, I am sending this message to all the people I judge to be principal actors in the incident being discussed at ]. The discussion there has already become a bloated re-run of the dispute between you all at the original article talk page. You have made your points there and at AN/I and no further good can be gained by continuing to rehash old arguments. As an outsider, I have to say the only impression this continued argument gives is of all parties being unable to resist trying to get in the last word. Not every post by the "other side" needs your response. Your dignity and the cause you are arguing for, suffers with every further response. Please leave the AN/I field free now for other editors to respond. Please note I am leaving the exact same note on a number of people's talk page - not everybody has been equally active so please excuse me if you feel my tone here feels undeservedly critical. ] ] 11:53, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
	:Kim, I'm not just one of the principal actors, I'm the (falsely) accused person. But if you post this on the pages on the 4 listed attackers (so far you've missed Dominus.....) I'm cool with giving it a try. But this isn't to preclude the discussed much more thorough next phase if needed. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:14, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
	::You are one of the principal actors in the AN/I discussion which was in danger of getting derailed. I haven't notified Dominus because although very involved in the original article, he has said very little at AN/I. ] ] 12:23, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
	:::Well, I went with it until Jenova decided to blow it. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:55, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	The bad news is that the system is mis-usable such that it would have taken 10 hours to create an present a total dissection which then would have boomeranged it on them As a pragmatic move, I saved myself the 10 hours and them the boomerang by proposing that I'd be happy to avoid the article for a year as long as it is 100% voluntary. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:58, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 03:30, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
	== Nolan Chart ==
			== ''The Signpost'': 19 October 2024 ==
	Seems that category:libertarianism is very broad and Nolan Chart should go into the "most specific" categories. (In accordance with ].) The terminology & theory categories are sub cats of libertarianism. Correct? If the nose of the Nolan camel gets under the broadest category tent, then the rest of the libertarian related articles get in as well. --] (]) 18:35, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
	:I read the link that you gave. You're right; I didn't know that being in a more specific category is supposed to preclude categorization in the more general category. Thanks. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:11, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
	::That's quite alright. Every time I learn something new about (and in) WP, I think about the ] cartoon which shows Jeremy in his room surrounded by stacks and stacks of paper as a computer printer is whirling away. His father comes in and asks "What in the world are you doing?!" Jeremy calmly replies, "I'm printing out the Misplaced Pages -- why do you ask?"--] (]) 23:02, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
	:::I think that that will require TWO packs of paper. :-) <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:29, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
	And then some! ]<br>--] (]) 01:48, 24 November 2012 (UTC)]]
	{{clear}}
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-10-19}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 14--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 11:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
	== Resolved, for now ==
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			== Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment ==
	I'm glad to see that the ANI business is now over for you, and 28bytes essentially made your offer official. I'm confident that you will hold up your end of the deal (and I strongly urge you to do so, construing it as broadly as possible). You may (or may not) be interested in ]. --] (]) 19:39, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. Having given my word, even if was hard to do, I would be good to my word. But this one will be easy to do. It was just pain that I was enduring on behalf of Misplaced Pages, not a quest, so it will be easy to stay away. As I said, the offer was happily given. I read the thread that you linked to. Thanks for that thorough discussion. I think that you misunderstood my view in two described instances, both instances described, but that is common. If you want the secret decoder ring on these things for North8000 its that I see and deal in structure, which can be abstract. Including the logical underpinnings of wording. Thanks again. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
	::No decoder ring needed! I realize that. I figure if you feel I have a few things wrong, and the other person thinks I have a few things wrong, then I'm probably calling it down the middle (or maybe just wrong all over the place). I suspect that your seeing things in structure, when other editors see them in, well, social context, is what sometimes leads to the disagreements. Anyway, I look forward to working together on happier things. --] (]) 20:40, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
	:::Cool! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:43, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
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	The bad news is that the system is mis-usable such that it would have taken 10 hours to create an present a total dissection which then would have boomeranged it on them As a pragmatic move, I saved myself the 10 hours and them the boomerang by proposing that I'd be happy to avoid the article for a year as long as it is 100% voluntary. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
			:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 18:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	== You have a fan ==
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	I just came across on Wikipediaocracy by chance and thought you might want to know. ] 16:32, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
	:Holy cow! Thanks for the heads up! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC)		:Done. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:39, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
			== COI edit requests ==
	::No problem. I don't generally participate over there. From my understanding it's basically a trolling site and participation is somewhat frowned upon. But I was just poking around after noticing with some trolling from TheKohser. I guess most any active editor has a peanut gallery over there ;-) ] 17:46, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
	:::They did some real analysis of what happened there. Which takes some doing given that it was about a 1/2 million words on about 10 different pages. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 14:35, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
			Wondering if you minded creating a shortcut to for easier reference. I didn't want to do it myself since you spent all the work creating it (which I thank you for by the way). ] (]) 19:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
	== Thank you! ==
			:{{Ping|CNMall41}} Thanks. Where would you like me to create the shortcut? Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
			:I can also help make such a shortcut if you let me know what you want it to be called and where you want it to go to and from? ] (]) 15:11, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
			::I think maybe a shortcut from ] or ] to that page would suffice. I found it useful yesterday and plan to use it a bit more so though a shortcut would make it easier. --] (]) 19:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
			:::Both done. ] (]) 19:24, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
			::::Perfect. Thank you. --] (]) 20:23, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
			:::::You're welcome. ] (]) 21:43, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
			== A barnstar for you! ==
	<3 --Lubna Rizvi 10:27, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
	== Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/ON Magazine ==
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | You work hard, and do good work. Take an "Original Barnstar" in recognition of such fine work. ] (]) 15:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
			|}
			:Thanks! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 17:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
	*]
	You may wish to revisit due to recent significant quality improvement at the article page. Cheers, &mdash; ''']''' (]) 19:20, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
	:I'd be happy to. Thanks for the heads-up. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:55, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
	::Yes, it's much improved (in particular, suitable references added) I reversed my recommendation. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:18, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
			== Administrators' newsletter – November 2024 ==
	== Regarding your comment on the DUVE Berlin talk ==
	Can you help me out? I don't know why it's a problem to crosslink pages that are absolutely related, and DUVE Berlin was the first page I ever created on wiki, I have no experience on this. How exacly do you suppose I should put this information up on wiki, other than the way I did? The articles i added are purely informational and objective. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 13:52, 14 December 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
	:To be frank, when I discussed crosslinking, I was not saying that cross-linking itself is a problem, it was just one of many hints of a possible bigger problem. A brand new editor who suddenly creates several related promotional articles within 1-2 days, on topics where there is no indication of wp:notability and with Misplaced Pages expertise far exceeding their edit history as that account raises concerns which I don't wish to explicitly delineate here, but roughly of being a commercial/promotional or wp:coi effort to use Misplaced Pages to promote artists/gallery not meeting Misplaced Pages's notability requirement. In short, on those articles where you can find substantial coverage of the subject in independent sources, I would be happy to help you, regardless of the situaiotn. Also, if you would like to discuss that more directly / help me understand the situation more quickly and care to tell me / discuss individually about it, please feel free to email me using the Misplaced Pages email tool provided. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:37, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
			] from the past month (October 2024).
	== Refining NAD ==
			]
	Hi. I had an old drafted response, from a few months ago, that I put in a sandbox . It might be useful, for either links or other aspects, in your good work at ]. I got quite burnt out on trying to mediate the disagreements, waybackwhen, and am very happy to see you working on clarifying the issues. :) No rush at all, especially given how long it's been going; slow and steady wins the race. –] (]) 04:39, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the compliment and post. I did a lot of analysis of the example articles, (and ones similar to them) which are articles that are actually focused on and defined by a term rather a single subject behind the term, but where the existence of the article is accepted and a good idea. And then put the result into words. The core question of my work is not whether or not to do etymology, it is identifying what is already "working" in Misplaced Pages (on what appear to be "exceptions"; topics that ''appear'' to violate the policy but clearly have been rightly been accepted as being articles. ) and then understanding what is happening at / in common with those and putting it into words in a succinct way. I put quote marks around "appear" because, the policy already allows for exceptions, but few have noticed that when they mis-quote the policy, mostly because that part is too brief, not explained, and only in the lead. Actually what came out is that they are not even an exception to the core tenet of wp:nad. I think that I've really found something useful. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
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	:I upgraded to direct link to article. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:30, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
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	Shame on me for not checking and realizing that my links went to dab. Only a Kiplinger edit conflict gave me notice (away). If you see such edits/problems, feel free to contact me (or any other editor) and give a heads up! (In fact, there is a dab bot which does exactly that.) In any event, thanks for your contributions. --] (]) 13:45, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
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	:I thought of writing you but then decided not to. You are getting them linked, which is good. And there is no "correction" to suggest because most but not all "Libertarian" and "libertarian" links should go to ]. And I'm happy to follow them and see where they should go to and upgrade them. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:52, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
			{{center|{{flatlist|
	::Okay. I shall continue to push my side of the ]. A search for "libertarian" came up with 7,885 entries. Except for the election result pages, I've gone through 7,000 of them to look at and see where I could link. This little endeavor is getting tiresome, so it may be awhile before I go back and de-dab what I've done. Happy editing! --] (]) 14:01, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
			* ]
	:::Cool! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 15:46, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
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			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	==Sandy Hook==
	Thanks for helping out. If you don't mind, drop by in that section on the rifle, where I cited you: "Picture of rifle used in the Weapons section of the article". Apparently, it's really important to some people to have pictures of weapons. Besides sharing your concerns, I think it's pretty tasteless, but I'll get off my soapbox. Thanks, ] (]) 22:40, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
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	:Happy to. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:47, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
	::Ty muchly. ] (]) 22:56, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
			Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
	==Your edit at wp:ver==
	(the title and my 22:41 post where what I put at Teapot's talk page; they copied them to here) <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:29, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
			== ''The Signpost'': 18 November 2024 ==
	Good effort, and I'm with you in spirit, but there is no chance it would survive there as you wrote it, my revert was just a friendlier version of the inevitable. Why not try to work out something in talk the ''could'' stick? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:41, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
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	:I don't consider your revert warring my edit like this to be friendly at all. How about you don't revert my edits and don't second guess what other editors do or do not do???] (]) 17:06, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
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	::Your accusation that North was "revert warring" is not credible, Teapeat. The article history shows that he reverted only once, whereupon you immediately reverted his revert. How about taking it to the Talk Page next time instead of "revert warring" yourself? Regards, ] (]) 17:31, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
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	::Teapot, you have everything in what you just said mis-perceived and mixed up. But thanks for your effort, even if your first try was a misfire. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:18, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
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	Feel free to trout me for the wikilawyer-is-offensive thing again. Best regards, ] (]) 17:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
	:Nah, just a friendly difference of opinions on that one particular item. Thanks for the post! Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:30, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
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			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	Thank you for your review :) --] (]) 21:00, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 17:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
	:It was so well done that it was easy to review. My pleasure, and nice work! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 16:08, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Biographies request for comment ==
	== Colegio de la Preciosa... ==
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	Hi, I have responded to your comments on the ], thanks for taking the chance to review it, it is much appreciated. ] (] &#124; ]) 20:38, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 17:57, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	:Thanks for the heads-up. I'll go look. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:51, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
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	== ] article ==
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 17:58, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment ==
	You may want to check to see if that recent edit you "dialed way back" was even supported by the source. The user has a history of making hateful edits. ] (]) 21:59, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
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	:It was pretty out there. Others can change it further if they wish. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
	== De-composing ==
	See ]. ] (]) 15:38, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
	*Chiming in, after reading your December 2011 ANI thread as well. ] (]) 15:40, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	== Death Is Birth ==
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	Can I just say thank you for giving the extended play a GA review. I worked hard and it was my first, I would have been more responsive on the comments page for it if I had known it was being reviewed. ] (]) 10:25, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 20:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post and happy to do it. The two items I brought up were really just suggestions in areas where it was already good enough to pass. And in this case it turned out to be pretty easy to find and add an image, which I did.
	:Congratulations!
	:Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment ==
	== Dolphin51's footnote problem ==
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	Thanks for the help. I put a reply on my talk page. ] (]) 03:04, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
			:Done <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:58, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	:My pleasure. You do an immense amount of valuable work getting undercovered northern historical topics covered. Not sure that I'd 100% agree with your response, but that is a sidebar area. Long story short, good practice would be to put more cites than you do. But policy does not require it; any challenged ones would require it. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:04, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
			==Overdoing it with notifications==
	== Do you have any ideas for how to resolve this edit warring complaint? ==
			Hello, North8000,
			Please look at ]. You posted over 100 notices on this editor's talk page. It's overwhelming just looking at the page, I can't imagine being the editor. It's fine to send an encouraging note or two but do not plaster editor's user talk page with dozens and dozens of notifications. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:39, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	Hello North8000. I notice you were a participant in the discussion at ]. Scjessey has just . Admins may get a chance to close it yet again with no action. Any attempts to nudge the parties seem to have no effect. It is tiresome to have to keep telling people they have no edit warring case because Talk has not reached any conclusion.
			:That one was an anomaly. I just post something postive when passing a NPP review. Sometimes just a thanks for their work and sometimes with a suggestion for improvement. That one had both types (plus a third type...an AFD notice) and I was trying to help put a dent in the > 13,000 + article backlog by reviewing a whole bunch of similar articles. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 14:57, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
	Do you have any ideas for how to push the parties toward agreement? Could it be just a small matter of compromise wording? If someone opened a ] do you have any suggestions for how to word it? Thanks, ] (]) 17:13, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Ed, what we need is someone who is completely uninvolved to look at this and come to a conclusion to push things along - maybe that person can be you. I'll keep my personal opinions as to what probably needs to happen to myself, but the crux of the issues can be seen ]. This article got merged elsewhere, but the data is the same across the remaining two articles and are what's causing the issue. Hopefully by reading the exchanges and reviewing the information, you can get a better grasp as to why this has been ongoing for six months now. ] (]) 19:56, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
	::I'd be happy to take a look. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::I made a few comments there. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:46, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::Thanks for your help. ] (]) 05:43, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::::I might also comment or edit a bit at the articles in narrow policy-related areas. But I don't plan on the big job of getting deep in on the work that needs to be done there,. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:00, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
	===as the juggernaut rolls along...===
			== Reviewing a page ==
	I know you're trying to stay out of this as much as possible (I wish I had done so and stuck to minor edits in retrospect), but given the discussion at the talk page, do you think an RFC/U might be a good thing? If he actually follows through to ArbCom, he's gonna get killed there, and I'd like to avoid that. ] (]) 15:34, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
			Hey North8000, I just created a page on a biotechnologist based in Jamaica couple of days ago (]). Could you please have a look and give your remarks. Warm regards. It’d be great if you could review it. ] (]) 14:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
	:I think that all of the forum shopping for the main discussion is going to go nowhere given that (as far as I can tell/ after a quick overview)) CD has refused to engage in any substantive discussion. At first glance even the previous stuff seems to be lobbing volleys and ad hominem's and avoiding specifically engaging you when you get specific. The other person involved with them (Scjessey) appears to be a bit of POV zealous in talk page discussions, and was ganging up a bit against you, but also appears to be more Wikipedian when it comes down to actual article content. So even though they may be strongly POV in talk page contents, they might be amenable to proceeding in a policy-guided way and with policy-guided analysis on the talk page. My advice is to just focus on moving forward carefully at the one article, in a fully explained and discussed way, and one that is particularly policy-guided in the contentious areas, and inviting all to participate. And provide brief responses to CD's diversionary tactics but not engage deeply there. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:07, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
			:Hello {{Ping|Hamza A. Durrani}} It's a well written article, particularly/given for one which does not have GNG type sources. The article content does look like routine resume/CV material for an academic. I don't see any sources which would qualify for meeting wp:notability under ]. I'm guessing that he/the article would meet wp:notability under the Special Notability Guideline for Academics but I don't currently do reviews that require that because I haven't yet acquired the expertise / got fluent with that special guideline. Happy editing!!! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 19:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
			== ''The Signpost'': 12 December 2024 ==
	== My rough take ==
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-12-12}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 17, manually published--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 21:58, 12 December 2024 (UTC) </div></div>
	Hi North. Building on our prior discussion, I just whipped up my POV on PR editing which I thought you may be interested in.
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			== New pages patrol January 2025 Backlog drive ==
	From my point of view, Misplaced Pages is always asking me to "just put my COI aside" and go ahead and edit, which would work if companies gave me a paycheck up-front and let me write what I want. Instead it's a long, arduous and difficult job often fighting with a dozen people who want their Misplaced Pages article to represent corporate messaging. It's incredibly difficult and draining work and I only have editorial control to the extent that I outright refuse to do something.
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	Initially the Bright Line was my salvation because instead of refusing to make the edits clients wanted, all I could do is ask. The problem is that Wikipedians often said "yes" when I knew their answer should have been "no" which would have empowered me to take that answer back to the client and create an acceptable version.
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			== NPP ==
	Now I have shifted my strategy to creating sterner contracts, being tougher with clients and insisting on GA-quality work. Though I could see a program sanctioned by WMF & the community where companies pay a flat fee for an article they have no control over, as long as the corporate bureaucracy is involved, we need this layer of scrutiny and both Misplaced Pages and PRs need to learn how this relationship works and such.
			Okay, okay, I get it. The amount of notification bells you're sending me is going to cause me to have an heart attack. I thought I was sent to ANI for some reason (this happened to me before!), pinged several times while I was asleep, then blocked. Jesus christ.... ] <small> (]) </small> 23:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
	My take, of course I'm still figuring out things myself. Cheers! ] (]) 19:38, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|AlphaBetaGamma}} Thanks for your work. Certainly nothing "ANI" related. I did four posts on articles which you created which a copy went to your talk page on. Three were a heads up on three train station articles which are unlikely to meet wp:notability criteria on. The fourth was on a train station article which IMO was an edge case and I marked as reviewed. On all 4 I made the suggestion on a way forward to up-merge or cover them on an article which is on the overall rail line. Either way, happy editing! Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 02:05, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			::(I'm aware ] is a thing) I've been confused on what to do on ] which could just be sent to the railway line article and be called a day, because in the end I'd be yelled at when the massive infobox in the "Stations" section that would be placed if I merged everything and converted the train stations articles into redirects surpasses the rest of the article.
			::The WP:N issue exists with thousands of TRAINSTATION articles, even if you limit the scope to ]. Of course, some articles have been BLAR'd by some editors, but that's merely a fraction considering some can be improved to prove their point of having an article. (ex. ]. Of course, not every articles have the history to be expanded up to GA, but ] and ] are usually easier to cover and cite and expand) Because merging literally every station articles is a move that destroys dozens of potentials of GAs and even FAs, (although, there aren't any FAs in the scope of WPTIJ, you can find plenty of GAs in jawiki related to trains) I've hesitated to do the "just mention it in the railway line article, this doesn't meet GNG!" move that everyone does (and should be doing).
	:Thanks for the post. Your situation is complex and somewhat unique so I'm not sure what to say on the big picture. I think that my answers (which you sort of 1/2 know already) for your particular case would be different than yours. I hope that this new ground goes well for you. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:40, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
			::Considering that ] is barely managing to do its work with the small fraction of the former members, a major change of mass BLARing articles with insurmountable ] issues and expanding stubs that can be covered and expanded to the point people won't question their notability anymore is impossible.
	::I'm working on it (getting there). Where someone is paid to be here, it would be reasonable to expect GA-quality work and that's the target I'm aiming for in my future works. I see there are 88 GA articles in Wikiproject Companies and I would love to see a day where a substantial portion of them were written by me. I have six volunteer articles in the GA queue and about as many COI works that I'm just working on that want to bring it to GA.
			::] <small> (]) </small> 02:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
			:::{{Ping|AlphaBetaGamma}} Thanks for the post. Well, we both said our things. Rather than discuss those many angles, I'll just limit myself to two notes which might be useful: IMO it's not necessary (or even advisable) to list all of the stations in the info box of an article on the line. IMO it would be best to give each station a small subsection in the body of the article (or a row in a table) which would have the factoids that the text is derived from and the image. The other is that the issue of wp:notability (on these) isn't one of unexpanded articles, it's a matter of having a couple sources which cover ''the topic of the article'' in depth. The existence of these determines whether it is build-able into an ''enclyclopedia article'' vs where there are just some factoids in sources which the editor expands into sentences. Whether or not that building of the article has already occurred is not the question, except that it can be an indicator of whether or not the GNG sources have been found. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 21:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
	::I don't see my position as being very different from any PR agency or company though, except that so many companies looking for someone to do it for hire do not respect Misplaced Pages. It is a very shady market and I want to turn that around. We can solve a big problem for everyone with the right kind of market for Misplaced Pages consultancies and the right relationship between PRs and Misplaced Pages.
			== "Orphan" page ==
	::But it's nice to see not everyone is spitting on my shoes and wishing for failure :-) ] (]) 21:00, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
			Dear North8000, thank you very much for your checking Stano Bubán's page. I really appreciate your work...
	==Different topic==
			I would like to consult with you:
	Hello. There is currently a discussion at ] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you.
			Admin Reconrabbit added tags to the page using Page Curation (orphan). Even though I studied the issue of "orphan" pages, I did not understand what I should change or redesign on the Stano Bubán's page to remove this bar.
	== Ian Gillan ==
			Please, could you advise me, what exactly I should do? After all, the page has links to other internal pages of Misplaced Pages. For example, at the Academy of Fine Arts in Bratislava, Academy of Fine Arts, Prague, Velvet Revolution, Slovak National Gallery, etc. Should I add more links to other pages from Misplaced Pages?
	Hi there. I just want you to know that ] article is very far from becoming a ]. Cheers. ] (]) 04:32, 3 January 2013 (UTC)		I wish you a nice Christmas time... ] (]) 10:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
	:I was in the middle of reviewing it. My general thought (prior to thorough analysis) was that it ''was'' ready. Then you nuked the discography section and put that into a (so far) zero-references new separate article which may or may not survive. Based on that I temporarily struck my notes of passage on stability and completeness-of-coverage criteria. Now I'm in a wait-and-see mode. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:31, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
	::The person who nominated it and did a lot of work on it just said that it should be non-passed on stability issues. So I think that you, me and them all agree, albeit for different reasons. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:41, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
			:Dear North8000, thank you for your help... ] (]) 13:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Single payer / reply ==
			Hello {{Ping|JoshuaHeri}},
	I've been less than complimentary about your Misplaced Pages activities in the past (I am not a diplomatic person by any stretch of the imagination), so I appreciate you looking at my contributions with an open mind. I am in complete agreement about the single payer-related articles. They do not need our help specifically, but they are in dire need of ''more'' editors to help establish a consensus (for whichever view). Right now, it just looks like Thargor vs Cartoon ''ad infinitum'', which cannot possibly be healthy. That matter aside, I will try to follow your good example and judge more on actions than talk page rhetoric. Thank you for your comment and good faith. -- ] (]) 16:52, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Cool! But what about you and me both staying involved a bit to help get a good process going? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:54, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	::I will certainly see the DRN process through to its conclusion, but I am not really interested in actively editing in this particular topic. I'm more interested in seeing '']'' before it vacates my local cinema. -- ] (]) 17:10, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::I think I could learn some life-priorities from that.<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::Indications appear to be that CD's behavior and forum shopping will likely close that DRN discussion down. We'll see. ] (]) 17:17, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::It is not "forum shopping". It is a content dispute that is deadlocked because there are not enough editors/opinions to build a solid consensus for anything. DRN is the perfect place to resolve that dispute. -- ] (]) 17:50, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Well, it is forum shopping at its core, but if you want to rescue the DRN discussion, I'd suggest appealing to the admin who plans to close it. ] (]) 17:59, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::::No administrator has commented on the DRN discussion yet, so I am not sure what you mean. -- ] (]) 18:11, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::. I have also left a message at the admin's talk page. ] (]) 18:12, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::At best the DRN question was mis-worded. I don't see how it could be a route to anywhere. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::::::: explains why I wasn't seeing anything. I thought I was losing my mind when you were all talking about something I didn't know anything about! -- ] (]) 18:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
			Thanks for the post. ((As an aside, Reconrabbit isn't an admin.) If you want to remove the reason for that tag, find an article elsewhere) where it is appropriate to) create an internal link to the Stano Bubán page and create that link. It's not specifically a problem to not have those links so IMO another approach might be to consider it to be providing some info and say "Thanks for the info" and remove the tag. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 13:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
	== Setup bot to archive your talk page ==
			== Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment ==
	Hi North,
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 02:31, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
	Your talk page is listed right now as the 67th longest page in the English Misplaced Pages at ].
			==Happy Christmas==
	Do you want me to set up a bot to archive your Talk page automatically into month-year format archives?
			{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="border: 6px solid #FF4646; background-color:#46CB18;"
			|align="left"|]
			|align="center"|<b style="color:red"><i style="font-size:large">Merry Christmas, {{BASEPAGENAME}}!</i><br /> Or Season's Greetings or Happy Winter Solstice! As the year winds to a close, I would like to take a moment to recognize your hard work and offer heartfelt gratitude for all you do for Misplaced Pages. May this Holiday Season bring you nothing but joy, health and prosperity. ] <sup>]</sup> 23:26, 22 December 2024 (UTC) </b>
			|align="right"|]
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			{{clear}}
			== Happy Holidays ==
	&mdash;] (]) 03:07, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;"
	: Thanks for the email, (#67, I'm honored......:-)) but no thanks. I'm in transition on that right now. I'll get it trimmed. Sincerely,
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]
	: <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:37, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
			----
			'''Hello North8000, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this ]. Spread the ] by wishing another user a ] and a ], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. <br />Happy editing,'''<br />
			] (]) 22:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			''{{resize|96%|Spread the love by adding {{tls|Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.}}''
	:: I can set the bot to archive it into incremental archives too (1, 2, 3, ..., and so on) if you prefer that format. We can specify the timespan to 90 days too so that you have enough time to reply. &mdash;] (]) 04:04, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
			|} ] (]) 22:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
			== ''The Signpost'': 24 December 2024 ==
	::Thanks for the useful kick in the butt, but I'm handling it. I pared it ....losing my place as #67! :-) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 04:07, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-12-24}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 18--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 00:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
	:::The report is very confusing, I think that you may have fallen prey and read it backwards. I think that I'm actually about #1450, not #67. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
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			== Happy holidays! ==
	== Importance of in-line citations ==
			{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;"
	*''Dolphin, you made a complete mis-statement of my conversation there with you. Too obvious to be accidental. It's starting to look like you want to wage arguments more than you want to get cites added''
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | ]
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!'''
			|-
			|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
			----
			'''Hello North8000, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this ]. Spread the ] by wishing another user a ] and a ], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. <br />Happy editing,'''<br />
			''''']''''' ] 12:24, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			''{{resize|96%|Spread the love by adding {{tls|Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.}}''
	Hi North8000. I make no secret of the fact that I found your contributions at ] to be unhelpful. Let me explain.
			|} ''''']''''' ] 12:24, 25 December 2024 (UTC)
			== Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment ==
	In August 2011 I had a constructive and polite dialogue with Benjamin about the absence of in-line citations from one of his new articles. In December 2012 I set out to have a similar constructive and polite dialogue on the same subject. You jumped in and responded before Benjamin did so and, to my surprise, you attempted to contradict what I had written. You did not contradict me on my Talk page which I think would have been the appropriate course of action. Instead, you contradicted me on Benjamin’s Talk page where Benjamin was sure to see it. Presumably you wanted Benjamin to see that two experienced Users disagreed on the subject, and that you were willing to tackle me on his behalf.
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 19:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
	Throughout the thread I have supported my comments and my arguments by posting quotations, complete with quotation marks or italics or bolding. I also posted blue links to relevant Misplaced Pages policy documents. You did none of these things. You wrote vaguely about policies but without actually quoting any policy. Apart from one mention of WP:Ver, you didn’t name the policy you were alluding to, or provide a blue link. (eg You wrote authoritatively using the words '''sourced''' and '''sourcable''' but without specifying which policy actually uses these words.) On one occasion I asked you to post a diff but you didn’t do so. This is a very useful strategy because it means you can’t be pinned down to anything because you never actually write anything definitive, and you never have to explain what you mean. However, I find this strategy very frustrating and I think it lacks openness and honesty, especially when you are writing to one User in the course of a debate on another User’s Talk page.
			== Administrators' newsletter – January 2025 ==
	On several occasions I emphasised the fact that you and I were actually in agreement on all things that mattered on the subject. Despite that, you continued to write about how my interpretation was incorrect or my implications were in error. I tried to find common ground; you tried to find differences. You even took time to write ''starting with your complete misfire on what Ad hominem means''. Of what relevance is the meaning of Ad hominem to the subject of the thread? Who were you trying to impress? (When I invited you to raise the matter on my Talk page you showed no interest.)
			] from the past month (December 2024).
	Your contributions on the thread appear to have had the effect of reassuring Benjamin that he can safely ignore my advice. Benjamin wrote to you saying ''Thanks for the help'' – see his . You replied saying, among other things, ''good practice would be to put more cites than you do. But policy does not require it;'' (Then you did a 180 degree turn and wrote ''any challenged ones would require it.'' Do you see what I mean when I say you never actually write anything definitive?)
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	If it was your goal to reassure Benjamin that he can ignore ] and my requests then I think you have succeeded. However, if your goal is to see Benjamin persuaded of the value of adding his own in-line citations and avoiding the devaluing effect of banners saying “This article needs in-line citations”, I have made the following request to you and Ymblanter on ] – :
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	:''If Ymblanter or North8000 are willing to assist by trying to persuade Benjamin, that would be greatly appreciated by me.''<br />
	] ''(])'' 05:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			] '''Administrator changes'''
	:On the core topic of influencing Benjamin to use more in-line citations, we are in full agreement. However, when you mis-state or misapply wp:ver, including mis-stating or misapplying wp:ver to infer that someone is violating it when they aren't, I am going to say so. (you have repeated this error in your post above) in your post above I'm quite familiar with wp:ver....by numbers of posts, for the last 3 years I have been the #1 most-active editor/contributor worldwide in discussions / development work at that policy page, and I also have the ability/curse of seeing and understanding the structure of statements contained therein. And my statements are from a structuralist/logician angle and have been consistent. Also, I have collaborated with Benjamin before (e.g. discussing the books that he buys so as to write articles well from sources) and know that he writes from sources. I also know that he does an immense amount of doing sourced (but not cited) quality work in areas (e.g. northern historical) where few are really doing that.
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	:So, the answer to your question is YES. So I will continue to work WITH you on getting him to cite more and even ramp up my efforts in that area. And if we could just stick to doing that without wis-stating policy, or mis-implying violations or flaunting of policy, your message will become much clearer and our discussions will be 100% co-operative. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:13, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			:] {{hlist|class=inline
	::Can we agree? I think that step 1 would be towards routinely adding more cites when doing new work. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:29, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
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	:::I agree that getting Benjamin to add in-line citations to existing articles is beginning to appear impossible. Our strategy should be to encourage him to incorporate in-line citations in new articles he creates. Both you and Ymblanter and offered very gentle and implied encouragement to Benjamin about the value of in-line citations. He appears happy to ignore such encouragement. I think the time has come for you to make it entirely clear what you are talking about - that is, ] is a policy that all articles are expected to conform to; it isn't offered as one of a number of acceptable alternatives.
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	:::I am willing to acknowledge that you are Misplaced Pages's leading contributor to ]. That is a good thing. You have written many times that I mis-state ], or mis-apply it, or incorrectly imply something about it. You have made no attempt to explain what you mean. For example, you wrote to me (on Benjamin's Talk page) authoritatively emphasising the words '''sourced''' and '''sourcable'''. The word ''sourced'' appears 8 times in ], always in the context ''unsourced'' or ''poorly sourced'', not as a criterion for verifiability. The word ''sourcable'' does not appear anywhere in ]. So when you wrote about information being sourced or sourcable you weren't quoting from ]. I'm sure you know what you mean when you write these words but I don't. That is not a good thing, especially from one who contributes so much to the topic.
			]
	:::If you want me to stop mis-stating ] you need to explain what it is that I am writing that constitutes mis-statement. I am always willing to be persuaded by logical argument. ] ''(])'' 11:55, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::Cool. It will take me a bit. But in the meantime I must point out a couple of things. I think that "leading contributor" is being too kind; I'd call myself one of the 4 most involved, who just happens to have more edits than the others. Also I just realized that I made the mistake of using a term "sourced" which has two different meanings ("came from a source" and "cited") and thus further contributed to the confusion. Sorry. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Thanks. I look forward to reading whatever you can provide.
	:::::A day ago Benjamin submitted this essay - . I have responded. It would be good if you and Ymblanter (and anyone else watching) responded too. ] ''(])'' 22:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
	{{outdent}}Overall, I am with you on your effort to get Benjamin to cite more. So let's call our wp:ver discussion a sidebar. Briefly, in this area, here's what wp:ver in essence says:
	*All material added is to be verify'''''able'''''. It must be cite'''able''' should the question arise
	*All material that is likely to be challenged should be cit'''''ed'''''. This expresses a principle, but is usually not practically operative until/unless the material gets challenged. But it does mean that statement that look like a real "reach" or which make an arguable claim should get cited.
	*All material that is challeng'''''ed''''' must be cited in order to remain.
	So, creating articles as Benjamin does does not violate any of the above, and doing so does not flaunt wp:ver.
	BUT what he is doing is unusual in Misplaced Pages and likely to lead to various problems. For example:
	*An article with so few references could never pass the criteria for being a Misplaced Pages Good Article or Featured Article. I do a lot of Good Article reviews, and I would have to fail such articles on that basis.
	*If the material starts getting challenged and tagged, it is likely to get deleted if cites are not then provided. And it's usually much harder to do it afterwards.
	*Particularly when writing articles from sources (as I have seen Benjamin to do) it's really easy to add this cites right when you are writing the article, and harder to go searching form them later. So why not do it when writing the article.
	*While this is lower risk with the types of subjects that he is writing on, if the article's subject gets challenged on wp:notability grounds, there is a higher risk of the article getting deleted because lack of sources means lack of sources of the type required for wp:notabiity.
	Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:29, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			] '''Oversight changes'''
	Thanks for your detailed explanation. I agree with all of it.
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	Benjamin has described excessive footnotes as “clutter” – . I suspect he is most familiar with a style of academic writing in which a Bibliography or list of references is used, but in-line citations are not. He probably finds the neat, tidy appearance of his articles satisfying and is not attracted to the unfamiliar appearance of articles with in-line citations throughout the text. I think our strategy should be to persuade him that:
			</div>
	*on Misplaced Pages, footnotes don’t degrade the appearance of an article
	*creating footnotes and inserting them in a document is not difficult; instead it is as satisfying an activity as writing the prose that composes the article
	*inserting footnotes raises the quality of the article and takes it closer to Good article or Featured article status, with all the satisfaction that accompanies those milestones.
			] '''Guideline and policy news'''
	I think people who are asked to incorporate in-line citations into the text they add, and their new articles, fall broadly into two categories. Firstly, there are those who are unfamiliar with the concept of in-line citations but who investigate the concept and promptly do as requested and begin incorporating in-line citations. Secondly, there are those who are familiar with the concept but who choose to argue their case that they don’t need to incorporate in-line citations. Benjamin belongs to the second category. Despite me and others drawing his attention to ] and ] he has never acknowledged their legitimate role on Misplaced Pages, nor that he has read them. He has never quoted anything from these two policy documents, nor has he attempted to identify any shortcoming in either. I invited him to argue his case at ] if he believes he has a better quality-control model than the one presently described at ] – I don’t imagine he will ever take up my invitation. In this he shows that he believes the problem is Dolphin, not anything written in ]:
			* Following ], ] was adopted as a ].
	:''Dolphin appears to be a puritan who thinks that There Must Be Footnotes regardless of particular cases. I am taking the cavalier view that footnotes should be added only when they are necessary.''
			* A ] is open to discuss whether admins should be advised to warn users rather than issue no-warning blocks to those who have posted promotional content outside of article space.
			] '''Technical news'''
			* The Nuke feature also now ] to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions.
			] '''Arbitration'''
	Benjamin has put forward a significant number of excuses as to why he shouldn’t be expected to incorporate in-line citations. All are based on his intuition. None of them has been related to anything written in ] or similar policy documents. Benjamin is pretending that ] does not exist or that he hasn’t read it. I’m convinced he is much more familiar with these things than he shows. He feigns ignorance of ], probably because he finds it easier to do so rather than grapple with the inconvenient truths in the policy documents. It would be good if more Users, other than me, reinforced the notion that ] has a legitimate role on Misplaced Pages and all contributors should respect it.
			* Following the ], the following editors have been elected to the Arbitration Committee: {{noping|CaptainEek}}, {{noping|Daniel}}, {{noping|Elli}}, {{noping|KrakatoaKatie}}, {{noping|Liz}}, {{noping|Primefac}}, {{noping|ScottishFinnishRadish}}, {{noping|Theleekycauldron}}, {{noping|Worm That Turned}}.
			] '''Miscellaneous'''
	Don't forget Benjamin's recent essay at . It would be good if you could read it and provide Benjamin with a response. Sincerely. ] ''(])'' 07:42, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
			* A ] is happening in January 2025 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. ]
			----
	:There's a third possibility which is that this effort got off on the wrong foot causing the situation to get polarized. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:56, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
			{{center|{{flatlist|
	::I don't see how that could be a realistic explanation. See how it all started - . Cheers! ] ''(])'' 12:34, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
			* ]
	:::I'd call that a mixed-bag in this context. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:42, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
			* ]
	::::Why would you call it a mixed bag? ] ''(])'' 12:45, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
			* ]
	::::Do you really want to go there? Happy to do so if you think that it would be useful to discuss. But I'm ready to just go to work to see if I can convince Benjamin to put in more cites. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:48, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
			}}}}
	:::::We have agreed that our first priority is to persuade Benjamin that in-line citations can open up a whole new world for him, beginning with GA status for his best articles. I suggest you do that first.
			<!--
	:::::There is a likelihood that, in the future, I will feel motivated to write to another User to draw his attention to Misplaced Pages's desire that articles are independently verifiable. If you think my messages to Benjamin in August 2011 and/or December 2012 were a "mixed bag", and that being a mixed bag is not a good thing, I am keen to find out what you mean; or at least what approach you recommend in such circumstances. ] ''(])'' 12:59, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
			-->{{center|1=<small>Sent by ] (]) 15:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)</small>}}
	::::::"Mixed bag" of course includes the nice stuff that you said. And on the other side, the only argument that you made for what you were asking was essentially saying that they were violating policy. With the latter being incorrect, your only reason given was an erroneous one. But either way, using "you are breaking a rule" as the only reasoning for something that someone is bringing up is far more likely to polarize a situation than it is to convince the person. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:15, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
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	:::::::A very good submission - . It deserves to be successful! ] ''(])'' 04:03, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
			== Happy New Year! ==
	::::::::Thanks! We'll see what happens next. Sincerely <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:09, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
			<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:golden; background-color:#fff; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">]
			'''Hello there, 'tis the season again, believe it or not, the years pass so quickly now! A big thank you for all of your contributions to Misplaced Pages in 2024! Wishing you a Very happy and productive 2025! ♦ ] (]) 02:27, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
			</div>
			== Review of Kaal Bhairav Jayanti ==
	== Assault weapon ==
			Hi ]. Belated New Year Greetings for 2025. Thanks for reviewing ]. ] (]) 12:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	On ] you ''That it is a TERM (not a type of firearm) and one with no consistent meaning.''
			== Review of Maha Kumbh 2001 Mela ==
	You are 100% right. However, in Misplaced Pages we do not start an article by explicitly stating that the title has no meaning. Instead we set up the context. The further back the '''bolded''' term comes, the more distant the article is from any general meaning of the term. I wish I could point you to other examples, but wanted to give you a quick note. -- ] (]) 10:46, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			Hi ]. Sorry for belated reply and thanks for reviewing ] and sharing your inputs. Will improve in coming days. ] (]) 12:44, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
	:What you are saying is certainly the norm, however this is a case of an article about a ''term'' where there are massively different meanings which a whole lot of people think are are single meaning. I think a very special and unusual case. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:01, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			== L. David Mech ==
	::In fact it seems to be more and more about the ''controversy'' surrounding the term. -- ] (]) 11:09, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			Hi @], I don't appreciate your wholesale revert of my edits on the ] page. I spent close to an hour proofreading the edits you made, including fixing bare urls and grammatical errors, and you just undid all of it in one click. This is both rude and inappropriate. If you disagree with specific changes I made, please take it up on the talk page instead. ] (]) 00:12, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
	:::As a term with no consistent meaning and which is used to deceive more than it it is used to inform, I think that it is rightly so. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			:{{Ping|Revirvlkodlaku}} You did a massive bundle of controversial deletions of good informative material material and sourcing. Including deletion of a 10 page article by Chicago's largest newspaper and all of the cites to it and material citing it on giving the rationale that it is "sub par" Please take specific specific controversial proposed deletions to talk. Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 04:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
	::::Why do you think my version does not express just this fact? Did you even read it! -- ] (]) 11:20, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			::My further notes are at the article talk page. <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 11:50, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
			== ] at AfD ==
	:::::You took out the key sentences which informed to that effect. Either way, it's hard to keep up with attempted second by second massive rewrites of a section with is a painstakenly developed consensus version. Not that it can't be further improved, but that's not the way to go about it. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:26, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			I am seeking an AfD consensus to redirect ]. Since you have participated in past edits related to this decision, I am notifying you of the discussion at ]. ] (]) 14:43, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
	::::::You are objecting to me doing the edit in a multiple numbered steps. This is done explicitly for the reason that other like you could check what was removed, or if anything objectionable was added.
	::::::While you are at it, would you please explain why you reverted (No real need to answer. I suggest you cool off and come back tomorrow.) -- ] (]) 12:11, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::::::Not "cool off" but lets slow down a bit and deal with it in talk. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
			== ] Awards for 2024 ==
	==Talkback==
	{{talkback|Guerillero|ts=02:35, 10 January 2013 (UTC)}}
	] &#124; ] 02:35, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
			{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
	== synth ==
			|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" |]
			|rowspan="2" |
	Hey. Thanks for giving your opinion on the synth discussion. Sorry if I came off rude. I was thrown off by the edits of another editor in the discussion whom I've had acrimonious encounters with outside of this discussion, and have since been kind of tense and on edge about it. But that's no excuse if I was rude. I apologize. ] (]) 04:08, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
			|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" |
	:Thanks for the post. I didn't see any of your discussions with me to be rude or problematic in any way. When I ended with "I was just giving my opinion" I wasn't hinting otherwise, that was just a preface to / context for the sentence which followed. But it's nice to strive for a higher-than-average standard in that area which your post here indicates that you do. Thanks again. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:20, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
			'''The New Page Reviewer's Silver Award'''
			|-
	== Notability of products ==
			|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray; width:100%;" | This award is given in recognition to North8000 for conducting 2,800 article reviews in 2024. Thank you so much for all your excellent work. Keep it up! ] (]) 18:05, 8 January 2025 (UTC)
			|}
	Hi North. I saw that you were active on the Talk page of the Notability policy. I noticed that the notability criteria for Products has been scratched and I was wondering if you knew anything about it. I'm talking to a three-year-old social media monitoring startup with about 20+ sources (TechCrunch, VentureBeat, Huffington Post, Mashable, Inc., etc.). The sources are all on their product (not the company) so I think it falls under
	::"Note that a specific product or service may be notable on its own, without the company providing it being notable in its own right"
	However, there is no specific guidance on what a product needs to be notable... ] (]) 21:58, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
	The main policy regarding this is wp:notability. And the core of it is that in essence the product needs substantive coverage in multiple secondary wp:reliable sources. That's the gist of it. Would be happy to do my best to discuss it more in any direction that you wish. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:03, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Hmm.. I think they'll be fine. The product definitely has enough sources (~20), but I know the community has its bias' against companies/products that are fairly new. ] (]) 04:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
	== AfD Caryacarya ==
	Thanks North8000 I appreciate your constructive style of working. Yes I understand what you say. Now I've just added two academic sources. One is that declare that ''Caryacarya'' is the "sacred text" of the religious movement ''Ananda Marga'' (this maybe you have just seen) (to satisfy point 3 of WP NC). The other is an academic source quoting the historical relevance of the author (to satisfy point 5 of WP NC). I hope this is sufficient now. Thank you very much for your help.--] (]) 21:24, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the thanks. I had already seen that when I wrote you; actually it's why I wrote you. But now I understand your approach .....it is to establish meeting criteria in the books sng. Long story short, that is a riskier/weaker approach. But if that is your approach, you should point out what you are saying....meeting the particular SNG points. ''IF'' you have a couple of independent sources which have done in-depth coverage of the topic (no particular claims are needed in there, just in-depth coverage) you have the stronger/less risky route available which is meeting gwp:notability/wp:GNG. In that case make sure that they are used as references in the article and then point them out and say that the are independent sources providing in-depth coverage. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 21:39, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
	::As far as I know, offline ]s are also counted. In an AFD last year I started gathering offline sources, though I didn't need those finally. If you can find some old 1995 Times of India full coverage on that book or 1992 Statesman article or any notable book (not another book of Ananda Maga please) where author has discussed on this book in details, please scan those copies (only particular pages) and then ummm.. send to someone (uninvolved editor?) who may see and verify those sources.. if you try to do so, make sure to collect at least 4 independent RS (newspaper articles, journal study, scholar papers etc) where the subject is the primary/an important topic of dicussion--] (]) 22:11, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Ah wrong page, I thought to post this in Cornelius383's talk page.. anyway... ] (]) 22:13, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Yes, but you probably don't even need that that extra process. Just use them in the article as references, put as much detail on the reference and cite as is possible, and point such out at the AFD. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:16, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::Ah, it seems, ]. Yes, that should work too unless someone shrugs, better play safe/perfect when you are already at corner of the ring --] (]) 22:28, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::Speed is also important unless you ask for more time, explaining why. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:39, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Most probably article creator can vote too, or is there any rule? Do you know about it? ]! --] (]) 00:19, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Certainly! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:49, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::But the more effective thing would be to find a couple of references with in-depth coverage of the topic, put them in, and note that at the AFD page. If they did that, the article will stay. If thei don't do that, the article will probably get deleted. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:54, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::Hi North8000. As I said to Tito I never vote on articles that I wrote. But in this particular case I did. Honestly I think that now we have in the article all the secondary sources to avoid deletion. I don't understand why to delete it. What do you think?--] (]) 03:44, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::::I just changed my recommendation to "wait another week" My comment there is: "I've had conversations with the main author at my talk page and theirs. They do not yet understand that the system here is likely to judge based on wp:GNG and so we are not seeing any identification of any wp:GNG-suitable sources that may exist. This needs another week for them to understand and identify those if they exist."
	:::::Answering your question, you still haven't done what I recommended. My gut feel is that IF those sources exist, and IF you do that, your article will stay. And if not, not. Again, my recommendation is to find a couple of independent sources '''with in-depth coverage of the topic''', '''put them in''', '''and point them out/identify them AS BEING SUCH at the AFD page.''' Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:10, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
	== ] ==
	Images don't need citations, but that caption definitely needs a citation. Either way it should definitely be discussed on the talk page. Perhaps we could start a discussion there? ] <sup>]</sup> 22:03, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
	:I started a section on the talk page for us to discuss, and get more input. ] <sup>]</sup> 22:09, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
	::(edit conflict)I agree with your statement here about the caption. Your last statement didn't indicate that and was an edit summary for the deletion of the image. It will be easy to source and I'll do that. Happy to discuss anyway. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:15, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
	== ] a good article? ==
	I am amazed that you gave ] a "good article" rating. I see that you had some discussion with Earthh, the person who mostly wrote the article, and he/she apparently allayed any doubts you had about it being neutral by saying, "I wrote it, I assure you it's neutral". But I'm afraid that's not enough, and you shouldn't so easily have given him/her a pass.
	I suppose you saw my attempts in the Talk page to make the article more neutral. I consider that they failed. Earthh, for whatever reason, is intent on presenting the movie in an almost exclusively positive light. The reality is that the movie was a financial and critical failure. It had some success in Belgium, then flopped in France, and was shown pretty much nowhere else, which is why hardly anyone in America reviewed it.
	The most egregious sentence in the article, that I was not able to get him/her to remove, remains: "Mr. Nobody has appeared on many critics top ten lists of 2010 and is frequently considered to be one of the greatest films of the year." "Many"? "Frequently"? In what universe? It's a laughable sentence, the reference does not support it, and it is unfortunately representative of the bias of the article.
	I was not and still am not prepared to have an edit war or any kind of war with Earthh about the article, but I am very surprised that you called this a good article. It's not. It's someone's labor of love showing a failed movie in the best possible light, and it embarrasses me that Misplaced Pages has such an article and even gives it accolades! ] (]) 04:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	:The content of the article should accurately reflect what is covered in reliable sources. The lead should summarize the content. Regarding the commercial results of the movie, the article included the theatrical results, and Earthh indicated that they had no sources to be able to put in it's overall results, including those from non-theatrical sales. Regarding your comment if you have a source that gives the characterization that you are describing ("commercial failure") you should have put that in and should put that in. Me insisting that characterization be put in without sourcing would actually be a VIOLATION of both policy and GA criteria.
	:The same goes for review and assessments by critics. The sourced critics material in there is generally positive. If you feel that there is other sourced negative critic material you should have and should put it in there. If you feel that the sentence is an overreach, you should change it.
	:Finally, I note that you have had zero edits on the article for its entire history except for placing a general POV tag on the article last August. And I don't see any proposed changes or anything beyond a general complaint on the talk page. Your response where Earthh said that they couldn't find any more sourced info on the commercial results was to basically throw up your hands, implied that they are a poor listener and left. IMHO the thing to do at that point would be to find and insert sourced material which you say is missing instead of asking the other editor to violate policy and insert an unsourced statement that the film was a commercial failure. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:24, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:37, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	:: Re: "accurately reflect what is covered in reliable sources": the reference for the wildly over-the-top sentence that I mention above, , does not support it. The closest I can find there is "made several of the hidden gems of 2010 lists published across the internet" -- hardly "many critics top ten lists of 2010" or "frequently considered to be one of the greatest films of the year", wouldn't you say? So it doesn't accurately reflect its own reference, let alone reality.
	::What's amusing is that that very same reference does say "the $47million film grossed a mere $2million at the box office worldwide", so it's not exactly hard to find evidence the film is a commercial failure and Box Office Mojo worldwide gross confirms this: .
	::It's odd because you raised concerns, and then accepted Earthh's answers, though they did not address your concerns. The reason I haven't tried to change the article is that Earthh, who clearly "owns" the article, appeared very resistant to my suggestions, and seems to me to be arguing in bad faith. See also my discussion on Earthh's Talk page . Now you say and maintain it's a good article... OK. I don't feel prepared to argue much more if the author of the article and a neutral person who is a Senior Editor both agree that the article is good. ] (]) 22:22, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	My opinion is that it meets the Misplaced Pages Good Article criteria. That doesn't mean it can't be made better. If the "the $47million film grossed a mere $2million at the box office worldwide" sounds like it would be useful for inclusion if the source is reliable. You should put it in, with the source. I have a feeling that you could just put it in and there would be no objections. But if you feel like you need support to do that ping me and I'll support you. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:31, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	: OK thanks for your reply. What do you suggest I do about the above-mentioned false statement, unsupported by the reference? "Mr. Nobody has appeared on many critics top ten lists of 2010 and is frequently considered to be one of the greatest films of the year." Doesn't its wrongness shock you? I would just delete it, but I really don't want to get into an argument. I'm really at a loss about how to improve the article, because it seems to me very, very biased, and I don't relish working in a non cooperative way. Here's another example "Jennie Punter of The Globe and Mail praised the film" -- no, she didn't, or rather, she gave it it two out of four stars and a mixed review (so of course there is praise as well as criticism): . Since this is one of the only reviews from a major source used to support the claim that the film was well-received by critics, if I change that, I have to change the whole slant of the (already over-long) Critical Reception section. Anyway, I'll try to make a few improvements, and see what happens. If I get around to it... The problem is that the article is like the movie: no one cares about it, except for a small number of enthusiastic supporters. I just hate seeing false things in Misplaced Pages. ] (]) 23:14, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	:: And here's another false statement about the film, with a bogus reference, in ]'s page: "It has received high praise from film critics and was named by many one of the best films of that year." Check the reference, it says nothing of the sort. Doesn't that shock you? I think you also gave this article a GA stamp. It seems to me there is a pattern here of misrepresentation, by someone who appears to be a big fan, but not sufficiently neutral and ready to bend the truth to make the film appear better then it is. ] (]) 23:26, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	:: PS: ] (]) 23:29, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	Answering your first question, my recommendation is that you should do (and should have been doing) the following (in this sequence) for each topic thread:
	#Put in sourced material
	#Make sure that summarization in the body of the article matches the sources material. If not, change it. If your change is disputed, discuss the specific change on the talk page.
	#Make sure that the lead summarizes what is in the article. If not, change it. If your change is disputed, discuss the specific change on the talk page.
	On your overall post, I am going to be short and very direct here in order to hopefully give some useful feedback. I looked at the history of the article and see that you have done ZERO of the above. You have done ZERO edits (other than to tag it). You have made ZERO specific proposals for changes on the talk page. On the talk page the only thing that you have done is make general criticisms. And the other active person there merely said that they feel that it summarized the sourced content that they were able to find. To me that sounds like an open door to go find sourced material and put it in. Even on this talk page you have a quote from a source which reflects on the very topic that you are discussing, but the only place you have even brought it up is on my talk page. You didn't put it into the article, you didn't propose putting it in the article, you didn't even discuss it at the article talk page. As much as anybody else, YOU are an editor of this article. That is how Misplaced Pages works. You seem to think that your scope is limited to just making general criticisms and that it is somebody else's job to propose or make specific changes to implement your general opinion. That "somebody" is YOU, and you have not done it at all. Again, I was short and very direct here in order to hopefully give some useful feedback. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:20, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
	: Thanks for your feedback, which is indeed useful, and which I will try to apply in the future. In return, let me respectfully suggest you check that the references match the article before calling an article a good article. --] (]) 01:54, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Not that I could check every reference, but I don't think that you have pointed anywhere where the material in the article conflicts with a used-reference. You have pointed out where material that you found but did not put in would have have made a significant reflection (e.g. on commercial success/failure) on the topic, but even on that there we no statements otherwise in the article. Probably the statement most open to question would be summation of the reviews....in essence that they were generally but not all good. This sits on the border between summation and synthesis but seems to me a good summation of material currently in the article.....of course you and other editors should feel free to take it out or modify it as you see fit. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 13:50, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
	::: I thought I did point out such cases. Again:
	::: * "Mr. Nobody has appeared on many critics top ten lists of 2010 and is frequently considered to be one of the greatest films of the year." article section: ref:
	::: * "It has received high praise from film critics and was named by many one of the best films of that year." article section: ref:
	::: The above two sentences are not supported by their references. Aren't those cases where "the material in the article conflicts with a used-reference"? Sorry to keep discussing this, but I am genuinely baffled that we don't agree on this. --] (]) 03:48, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::The first pair of of links is a section in this article, and a source. There is certainly not a conflict between the material and the references. One could argue either way on whether the reference supports the material or whether the material is or isn't a good and acceptable summary of sourced material for that section. If your opinion is not, then go tag / change / discuss it.....you are really in the wrong place for a debate on that. The second pair of links is to a section is a ''different'' article (not this one) and a source. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 04:06, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Precious ==
	<div style="margin: auto; max-width: 60em; {{box-shadow|0.1em|0.1em|0.5em|rgba( 192, 192, 192, 0.75 )}} {{border-radius|1em}} border: 1px solid #a7d7f9; margin-bottom: 1em; padding: 0.5em 1em 1em; color: black;" class="ui-helper-clearfix">
	<div>
	<div style="float: right; margin-left: 1em; background-color: #ddd; border: 5px solid #ddd; {{box-shadow|0.1em|0.1em|0.5em|rgba(0,0,0,0.75)}} {{border-radius|0.5em}}">]</div>
	'''scouting adventure'''<br />
	Thank you for quality articles, on ] and on ships, such as ], for teamwork, for bringing "some reason to chaos", for: "view every opponent ... as a current or potential friend", - repeating: you are an ] (3 July 2010)!
	--] (]) 07:46, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	</div></div>
	Thanks! It means a lot! Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:02, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
	== CD RFC/U ==
	After this morning's actions ]. ] (]) 14:14, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
	== WP:V ==
	Your recent revert of my revert is simply edit warring and can very much be seen as actual tag teaming. While you support the prose as I reverted back to you reverted based on issues that are not relevant to such a revert. I also wish to urge you to refrain from accusing any editor of tag teaming without just cause. I feel I now have such just cause to accuse you of such. However (and I think I have come to know you well enough to know this will not impress you) I also have a great deal of respect for you as an editor and feel this need not be escalated to AN/I unless you feel so inclined.
	I am curious though. What exactly is it that makes you feel that there was any tag teaming?--] (]) 05:34, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
	:First a couple of notes from the happenings there:
	:*I referred to it as '''''accidental''''' tag teaming.
	:*My edit summary recaps the important points, it said: "Undid revision. I am changing it away from the version that I DO prefer and to the version that I do NOT prefer so that the last stable version is in there while we talk. This should be decided in talk." And I did exactly what the two admins subsequently did, and for the same reasons which they gave. So I edited AGAINST my own preference on that topic in order to support going about a proper process for making a disputed change in a a core core policy. There is no way that that is tag teaming or edit warring.
	:Answering your last question, I did a full reach of AGF and said '''''accidental''''' tag teaming. I was referring to simply the mechanics of what was happening there (prior to the intervention by myself and the two admins.) And that was that the disputed changed version was sitting there just due to the fact that 2 vs. 1 ran the "1" up against the 3RR bright line, not due to any decision in talk. So I was ONLY reflecting on the math of what was happening and did not mean to imply that some type of offense was occurring. Such an implication would not be out of line, but it was not my intent. I tried to make that very clear.....it would have been better if I had tripled up on that effort. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:47, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Just one comment to your post. Edits are considered part of consensus.--] (]) 05:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::Hopefully we're cool. Thanks for all that you do for Misplaced Pages. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Foundation for Economic Education Good Article Nomination ==
	The ] article citations with page numbers now all have exact page numbers. --] (]) 18:58, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Wow! What an immense amount of good work! I'll give it a look in accordance with the discussed plan. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 00:17, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
	==Progressive utilization theory==
	FYI: Per your previous involvement in the discussion, I thought you might be interested in commenting in ]. (I must say I'm looking forward to being finished with this one!) ] (]) 22:52, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. I had forgotten that I commented there. I'd be happy to take a look. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:40, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
	== ] ==
	It was nice having an old friend out there. I started the article and then took a break to cross-country ski in 3 feet of new snow and came back to a tag for speedy deletion. I'll be away for a couple days so I hope no one gets hasty. Thank you for the defense of the ] article.--] (]) 02:13, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
	:My pleasure. Tagging it for deletion minutes after it was created and where in minutes I found multiple wp:notability-suitable sources was a bit much. I think that it's clearly wp:notable and now has the sources so it should be on firm ground now. But I'll be watching it. Enjoy the snow. ] Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:45, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
	== ] ==
	Just a quick note, now the dust has settled a bit, the editor who disrupted this, and derailed the GA review, {{User|Plant's Strider}}, has been blocked for edit warring, so I'm going to give this another go for GA this week. There ''are'' some things I want to improve first, such as being a lot more familiar with the various sourcing tags on articles since I originally put this up, so I'd like to do them first. I'd rather not have to wait five months again for another GA review, so would you be up for tackling it? ] ] ] 17:22, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
	:I'd be happy to. Just ping me when you nominate it. Actually, even better, if you feel like it, also ping me just before you nominate it. If there are any significant issues (in particular, have things really settled down? / stability) it would be better to acknowledge/ deal with them then. Neither of us wants another non-pass. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:33, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Having compared what's there now to what I did in August, most of the content is pretty intact. The main things are the ''formatting'' for sources (an activity I find as exciting as watching grass grow, hence why I haven't done it yet), and the lead basically wants to be ]. The trouble seems to have been with new editors springing up and starting to write stuff without realising that if it's at GA or FA, you'll hack people off if you're not careful. ] ] ] 17:57, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::Not sure how far you are going regarding source formatting....GA does not require it per se. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:02, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::I've done what I wanted to do, and the article is now up for GA again. See ]. ] ] ] 09:28, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Government waste ==
	Just created an entry for ]. For the longest time I assumed that, given the notability of the topic, the entry had already been created long ago. Better late than never I suppose. It's just a rough outline so there's considerable room for improvement. There's plenty of material on the subject so any assistance scouring sources and propagating pleasant prose would be appreciated. No worries if you have other priorities. Cheers. --] (]) 21:56, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the heads up and invite! I'm spread a little thin right now but will have a look. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:11, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
	::So many topics so little time. I moved other people's money to a subpage... ]. Figure it's going to be deleted...but perhaps, if we have time, we can improve it enough where it wouldn't be deleted. --] (]) 03:55, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Single-payer behavior ==
	The only terrible behavior has been of you and Thargor edit-warring against the consensus and inserting an obvious POV. If I recall you two did "report" my behavior to which the result was nil. The fact is you know very well what you and Thargor are doing and yet continue to do so. ] (]) 23:27, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
	:No I have not yet done so / reported you. I have put one sentence into the RFC/U which recently commenced on you, but that is not what I am referring to potentially doing. Please quit the crap, which you are repeating here. As I clearly indicated, I don't even have a preference much less a POV on the question which you are warring on. Every stage of my work there was explicitly just on trying to get a working process in place there. My note to you on your talk page remains the case. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 23:32, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Second Amendment pre-Heller ==
	Hi North. Help me out. Because I'm confused here. And if I can understand where you're coming from, perhaps we can avoid the long process of requesting a comment and/or mediation:
	1)Do you know of any United States case ever in all of US history prior to 2000 that ever found the individual theory to be valid?
	2) Are you aware of all the many Federal Court cases from 1942-2000 interpreting Miller that found the collective theory to be the only valid interpretation beginning with Cases v. United States (http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34446_20080411.pdf) ?
	Frankly I'm confused. If your answer to the first question is "no" and your answer to the second question is "yes", then what are we arguing over? And if you disagree, please be precise as to exactly what you disagree about (and provide a source please for your interpretation of pre-Heller history that cites cases as I've done).] (]) 01:57, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Getting right to the point, (vaguely speaking for brevity) there were no real rulings on the core question until the 21st century. I believe that you are trying to say that lack of a "individual right" finding is a basis to put something in imply that that the precedent is considered to be findings of the opposite. IMHO from every standpoint (logical, history and wiki-policies) that is not correct. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 02:13, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Please read United States v. Warin, 530 F.2d 103, 106 (6th Cir. 1976) -- http://www.guncite.com/court/fed/530f2d103.html -- which sets forward a long list of cases with this view. For a more recent case, check out Love v. Peppersack, 47 F.3d 120, 123 (4th Cir. 1995) (“the lower federal courts have uniformly held that the Second Amendment preserves a collective, rather than individual right.”). You may feel that the entire body of Federal case law from 1942-2000 on the Second Amendment was wrongly decided -- if so, you're not alone in that view...you're joined by five current members of the Supreme Court! -- but read the CRS article I provided. Like it or not, that was the clear and undisputed law in every Federal court that decided a Second Amendment case after Miller and before Emerson. Do you deny these are "real rulings on the core question"? I concede there is no Supreme Court ruling between Miller and Heller, but I never said there was. I'm not "trying to say" anything but to cite the facts. What are you "trying to say"? That these cited facts aren't true? Or are unimportant? Or that telling people what the law was pre-Heller is biased? With due respect, I honestly don't understand your objection. Are you saying the NYT Chief Supreme Court reporter filed a false report? If so, you should demand the NYT post a correction. (Ironic, as there is a correction already in it.) But on what grounds is it false? And on what grounds is the CRS and LOC false? You haven't cited a single source. And I've now found dozens for the simple proposition that prior to Heller, the collective view was the law in every Federal court that considered the case from 1942-2000. If you don't like the phrasing, fine. Let's work together to find phrasing you do like. Or, if we can't reach an agreement, I am willing to go to request for comment or mediation. I'd also like to see what Celestra comes up with it. Celestra does believe the Congressional Research Service is a reliable source. Do you disagree?
	] (]) 05:38, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::Respectfully, I find that three are immense logical flaws and false implied premises in what you are inferring above and your efforts to support what you are trying to insert. This will be a substantial conversation. If you prefer a separate discussion here that would be fine with me but otherwise perhaps we should move this to the article talk page? Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:36, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
	::::That's fine. I was hoping we could work it out here, but we can talk there. Have you read the Congressional Research Service report which found the collective view was the view of the federal courts from 1942-2000? Please let me know if you have read it and if you disagree with this characterization. And if so, on what basis. P.S. The article by Liptak was no more an op-ed than footnote 4 upon which the lede relies on for its holding on Heller and McDonald. If you don't accept it, we have to delete the second paragraph of the lede.] (]) 15:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Either venue is fine....that was just a suggestion. I skimmed CRS report...it is quality stuff. IMHO it indicates that the core question was undecided in the courts as of when it was written.....so what you are wanting to put in directly conflicts with that. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 16:24, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
	== Thanks for your comments ==
	I just wanted to drop by and thank you for your kind words on the Libertarianism Talk page. I'm sorry to have leapt to that conclusion, but it honestly appeared that our past conflicts were getting in the way of collaboration. I think we both want the same thing on that article (less anarchism, more "right-libertarianism"), so I hope we can work together to accomplish this. Again, thank you, and I wish you all the best! -- ] (] | ]) 22:43, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. When people who disagree with me stand their ground but don't resort to bad tactics I not only do not consider that to be a conflict, I respect them for that and enjoy the conversations. ''That'' is how I viewed our previous interaction, so I had not the slightest minus regarding you going into this. There was one moment which was (merely) frustrating which was on my talk page, right when you and I dissected the debate to it's logical essence you politely bailed. But that was just a "after all of that work, just when we were so close" frustration. Thanks for the post.
	:There is a lot of history at the ] article. 2 1/2 years ago that article situation was really in flames, like the nearly worst that I think I've seen in any article. My roles starting then has been a sort of a middle of the road facilitator. First we got it cooled down and eventually we discovered a few Rosetta stones that helped sort it out....that we were talking two different languages. It turns out that the word has two different ''common'' meanings in the US vs. Europe. Not just that different strands are practiced on opposite sides of the pond, but two fundamentally different meanings. The common meaning in the US is simply (setting a priority on) "less government, more freedom." END OF DEFINITION. I won't explain the meaning in Europe, I think you know it better than I. I think that the primary reason for this is that in the US the word "liberal" has been transformed/corrupted to mean "bigger government". And so a new word was needed for (classical)liberalism, and that word is libertarianism. And so another difference is that the common meaning in Europe is defined by lengthier philosophical definitions (e.g. whether they are for or against private ownership of resources, the moot question of whether they would take the US all the way to anarchism). Trying to view / define common US libertarianism in the context of such fleshed-out political philosophies taxonomies is imagining things. I think that you are tending to make that error. BTW the common meaning of anarchism/anarchist in the USA is people who throw firebombs in riots or motorcycle gangs who take over towns. So there another educational job we have in the article.
	:The article has been pretty reasonably peaceful despite the fact that nearly everybody there would prefer to take it to one extreme or the other. ''That'' is the situation that you are stepping into. Welcome aboard! <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 01:40, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
	::Awesome, thanks! You are correct about the changing meaning of the term ''liberal'', but to expound on that, the differences between common US and European political terminology stem from the USA's history as a nation born of Liberal philosophy: whereas European conservatives wished to ''conserve'' the absolute, monarchical system of rule, US conservatives wanted to ''conserve'' the Liberal values of our nascent nation (social freedom, ''laissez-faire'' capitalism, and a secular and democratic nation). During the early USA's adherence to ''laissez-faire'' capitalism (or nearly so), ''liberal'' came to mean those who wanted the government to put an end to what many saw as the resulting labor abuses (e.g. child labor, long hours, unsafe work conditions); this relationship between capitalists and the government is sometimes referred to as state capitalism. As these two political ideologies evolved, the conservatives became more accepting of the stronger, centralized government for which the liberals pushed, though for quite different reasons (e.g. national defense, foreign interventionism, the legislation of traditional/religious values), eventually earning the label ''neoconservative''. Those who wanted less government manipulation (and therefore more freedom) began identifying as libertarians because both the liberals and conservatives (aka neoliberals) sought a more powerful state, even though all three are Liberals--I'm using a capital ''L'' here to distinguish adherents of the political philosophy from the lay meaning. In Europe, of course, ''conservative'' meant conserving the absolute rule of the monarchy, ''liberal'' referred to an advocate of democracy and free trade, and ''libertarian'' was a synonym for ''anarchist'' (which also carried an anti-capitalist connotation, hence its common classification as a leftist philosophy). This is also why libertarianism and anarchism are organized into left and right categories: left-anarchism refers to the traditional, socialist anarchism; right-anarchism refers to egoist anarchism (the former is kind of like a stateless feudalism in my opinion) or the relatively recent anarcho-capitalism; left-libertarianism refers to the socialist anarchism; and right-libertarianism refers to a capitalist ideology that seeks less government, with considerable debate over whether this entails anarchism or minarchism. -- ] (] | ]) 00:00, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
	== Carpal tunnel and you ==
	Hey North. I'm glad my solution worked on Ian Gillan. Having just looked and seen how you performed the fix though, I figured you must be unfamiliar with the native search and replace tool we now have. On the editing toolbar there is an easily missed icon (it's all alone at the far right side, away from all the others) that looks like this ]. With it you could have replaced all of the <code><nowiki>{{sfn|Gillan</nowiki></code>'s with <code><nowiki>{{sfn|Gillan|Cohen</nowiki></code> in one click. (In the old days I would have done it by dropping the whole article's edit content into a word processing program to do the same thing). Best regards--] (]) 13:28, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
	:Didn't know that it was in the Misplaced Pages interface. Thanks! I knew that I could do it globally using other tools but decided on the one-by-one route to be cautious, and to de-bundle in case there was an issue with some. Plus it's good early AM wake-up therapeutic work. :-) Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (])
	== CartoonDiablo ==
	You feel exactly the same way about CartoonDiablo's behavior as I feel about Thargor Orlando's. I could have written exactly the same paragraph as , swapping the user names. Perhaps there is something we can learn from that? -- ] (]) 03:20, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
	:I try to be objective. If you are talking about their behavior during the last 1-2 months then I would have to question your statement and ask you where it comes from. During that period IMHO I think that it is pretty clear that TO has clearly been behaving well and CD clearly badly. If you are talking about something prior to that then I would have to plead ignorance. I was not "present" then and did not look back into history.
	:BTW I've just gotta tell you something that stuck in my mind from when I was looking around trying to learn/understand you, which included reading your statement of politics on your user page.....maybe a bigger "learn something from that" moment. Based on what you wrote, we have about 95% the same politics, yet your comments indicate an assumption that that we have opposite politics. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:10, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
	::Ah, but those 5% probably mean '''everything'''! -- ] (]) 15:11, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
	:::Well, the 5% is that I am undecided/torn about more government involvement in health care, and I'm a ''friendly-to-religion'' atheist. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 17:02, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
	::::I am not interested in having government run the health care system. Health care professionals run health care. What I want to see is government ''financing'' health care through taxation fully. -- ] (]) 18:16, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Not saying its good or bad (it's probably a mixture of the two) , but taxing/paying does inevitably mean ''controlling'' it to a significant extent. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:06, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
	== RfD:Other people's money ==
	Hello, North8000. You recently participated in discussion at ]. You may be interested in a discussion I have initiated at ]. Happy editing, ] (]) 03:44, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
	==] ==
	Can you add the OTRS ticket, please? --]&nbsp;<sup>(])</sup> 17:24, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
	:It is exactly as I wrote when I put it up, (and rock solidly-so) and I don't have one. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 18:19, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
	== February 2013 ==
	] Hello, I'm ]. I noticed that you made a comment on the page ] that didn't seem very ], <s>so it has been removed.</s> Misplaced Pages needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-npa1 --> ''Even if assumed and were not aimed at me, they still constitute a personal attack and you should know better.
	Keep it up with you want to end up at ANI again, or cut out the petty digs and work on the encyclopedia. If i see another unprovoked attack aimed ''anywhere'' near me then we'll have a thread on ANI. Thanks ''']<font color="purple">]</font> <sup>(])</sup>''' 09:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)'' ''']<font color="purple">]</font> <sup>(])</sup>''' 09:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
	:Well, you missed that boat twice over on that one. First, who said anything about you? (or anybody in particular). I just said 1 or 2 folks on that page, an immense page with an immense number of people on it. Second, even if if I had referred to anybody, it was a discussion about bad and destructive behavior which would not be a personal attack. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 11:22, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
	::Read ]. There is no exception to making uncivil accusations against users just because another users civility is in question on the same page. Your accusations were uncalled for and unhelpful. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks ''']<font color="purple">]</font> <sup>(])</sup>''' 11:50, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
	:::Your post has so many false statements and false implied false premises in it that it is too flawed to make sense out of much less answer. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:13, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
	::::Well whatever, that is the same argument as always from you. Either way, if i see another instance i'll be taking it to ANI. This discussion is over for me now. Thanks ''']<font color="purple">]</font> <sup>(])</sup>''' 12:23, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
	:::::Maybe more common for what you write, but in general not common. Other than that, same answer as my previous one. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 12:34, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
	== NRA Edit warring ==
	I agree the content on sandy hook should guards should be in, per the talk consensus. I'll leave a message on Athenes talk asking her to come to talk. We're going to get blocked at this pace and I'd rather we not be. Thx much.-] (]) 19:53, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. I plan to stay miles from going that far. But it certainly is relevant if commentary is going to be included. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:01, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
	== Assault weapon ==
	You reverted my edit . I've restored it. The article uses a bunch of named references, but included the full cite template anyways. This is unnecessary when named references exist and it creates a lot of wikimarkup hurting readability.&nbsp;]&nbsp;] 00:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
	:Thanks for the post. That's cool. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 10:13, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
	== GA Instructions ==
	I have completed a redo of the current nomination page with the revised instructions ]. What do you think?--] (] 02:06, 19 February 2013 (UTC)		:{{ping|Hey man im josh}} Thanks! <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> (]) 02:57, 9 January 2025 (UTC)
			== Tech News: 2025-03 ==
	WOW, nice work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
			<section begin="technews-2025-W03"/><div class="plainlinks">
	===Weak suggestions===
			Latest ''']''' from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. ] are available.
			'''Weekly highlight'''
	What you think of making it a linked page instead of templates so that it is accessible for people to edit and evolve/improve it?
			* The Single User Login system is being updated over the next few months. This is the system which allows users to fill out the login form on one Wikimedia site and get logged in on all others at the same time. It needs to be updated because of the ways that browsers are increasingly restricting cross-domain cookies. To accommodate these restrictions, login and account creation pages will move to a central domain, but it will still appear to the user as if they are on the originating wiki. The updated code will be enabled this week for users on test wikis. This change is planned to roll out to all users during February and March. See ] for more details and a timeline.
			'''Updates for editors'''
	===Stronger Suggestions===
			* On wikis with ] installed, you can now ] to pages in a given WikiProject by using the <code dir=ltr>inproject:</code> keyword. (These wikis: {{int:project-localized-name-arwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-enwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-enwikivoyage/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-frwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-huwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-newiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-trwiki/en}}{{int:comma-separator/en}}{{int:project-localized-name-zhwiki/en}})
			* One new wiki has been created: a {{int:project-localized-name-group-wikipedia}} in ] (])
			* ] View all {{formatnum:35}} community-submitted {{PLURAL:35|task|tasks}} that were ]. For example, there was a bug with updating a user's edit-count after making a rollback edit, which is now fixed.
			'''Updates for technical contributors'''
	*The links to it are way too small, bordering on hidden. Also be sure to link from the main GA page to, not just the GAN page
			* ] Wikimedia REST API users, such as bot operators and tool maintainers, may be affected by ongoing upgrades. Starting the week of January 13, we will begin rerouting ] from RESTbase to the newer MediaWiki REST API endpoints for all wiki projects. This change was previously available on testwiki and should not affect existing functionality, but active users of the impacted endpoints may raise issues directly to the ] in Phabricator if they arise.
	*Has some typos. I'd fix them but it takes me too long to figure out how to find and get into that template. Spelling on eligable, ineligable, "deleted" s/b "delete"
			* Toolforge tool maintainers can now share their feedback on Toolforge UI, an initiative to provide a web platform that allows creating and managing Toolforge tools through a graphic interface, in addition to existing command-line workflows. This project aims to streamline active maintainers’ tasks, as well as make registration and deployment processes more accessible for new tool creators. The initiative is still at a very early stage, and the Cloud Services team is in the process of collecting feedback from the Toolforge community to help shape the solution to their needs. ].
	*Under "partial review" probably should be "if nobody responds" not just if the nominator doesn't respond
			* ] For tool and library developers who use the OAuth system: The identity endpoint used for ] and ] returned a JSON object with an integer in its <code>sub</code> field, which was incorrect (the field must always be a string). This has been fixed; the fix will be deployed to Wikimedia wikis on the week of January 13.
	*Eventually the distinction between waiting for fixes while "under review" and using "on hold" to wait for fixes should be clarified.
			* Many wikis currently use ] to render custom footnote markers in Parsoid output. Starting January 20 these rules will be disabled, but the developers ask you to ''not'' clean up your <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">]</bdi> until February 20 to avoid issues during the migration. Your wikis might experience some small changes to footnote markers in Visual Editor and when using experimental Parsoid read mode, but if there are changes these are expected to bring the rendering in line with the legacy parser output.
	*When you say "Also, if the article is part of any WikiProjects, make sure you change the rating of the article through the WikiProject's template that is found on the talk page." you need to tell them what to put in there.
			'''Meetings and events'''
			* The next meeting in the series of ] will take place on ] and ]. The topic of this call is defining the priorities in tool investment for Commons. Contributors from all wikis, especially users who are maintaining tools for Commons, are welcome to attend.
			''''']''' prepared by ] and posted by ]&nbsp;• ]&nbsp;• ]&nbsp;• ]&nbsp;• ]&nbsp;• ].''
	Nice work!!!!!
			</div><section end="technews-2025-W03"/>
			<bdi lang="en" dir="ltr">]</bdi> 01:39, 14 January 2025 (UTC)
	Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 03:16, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
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			== ''The Signpost'': 15 January 2025 ==
	:Thanks for the feedback! I will address you comments when I get a chance.--] (] 01:45, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
			<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2025-01-15}} </div><!--Volume 21, Issue 1--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 07:55, 15 January 2025 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
	== Tea Party Movement, POV pushing, and TE ==
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			== Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment ==
	Hi, here to ask you about some allegations/accusations you made on ] - would you please provide diffs of the objectionable behavior? You may do so here or on my talk page, thanks much! ]] 16:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
	:With the one individual it was an assessment drawn from scores or hundreds of edits over several years, with the latest being warring to remove the 2007 Ron Paul Tea Party from the Tea Part movement article. With the other individual it was less frequent but much ruder, again drawing for scores of edits over the years. Also warring to remove the same thing. Right now its just to try to spotlight and recognize the problem to get that corrected at that one article. If I'm going to spend many hours digging out 150 diffs it would probably to obtain some action against those two persons, which I am not currently seeking. As I pointed out when someone noted that one of them violated the editing restriction at the article. Sincerely, <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 19:04, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
	::Not asking for 150, but it would have been nice to see at least '''one'''. If you can't be bothered to do even that, then I advise you to cease making such accusations. ]] 20:34, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
	:::The conclusions were drawn collectively from the hundreds of observations. Are you saying one example of it happening (which I thought was obvious from the post), or one example that singly proves that the behavior is occurring? The latter does not exist.....it took me years of observation of hundreds of actions before I considered it to be established certainly enough to make the statements.<font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 20:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
	::::I don't know how clear I can make this. If you cannot make a case to someone else, you need to hush up about it. Otherwise you're just slinging around unsubstantiated allegations, which might rebound on ''you'' and will cause no sanctions against ''him''. Puppy has spoken; puppy is done. ]] 20:51, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
	:::::My intention was that noting the behavior at the article might be enough to reduce the problem there. I'm willing to leave it at that. But if you are going to say or imply that me having noted the behavior is wrong unless I now start building the cases, then I'll start working on building them. Let me know. And, while we're talking about my well-founded statements which I made only after years of careful observation there, there are other accusations that those two made on that page which fall a few levels short of that.... which not only had no basis, but ran contrary to what was on that very page. Will you go to work on those too as I point them out? <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:00, 19 February 2013 (UTC)
	No diff = no "looking into", no actions. So either stop with the vague allegations, or post a diff. End of story, full stop. ]] 22:43, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
	:It has been many days since I have discussed the behavior of any individuals. I can return that that if you wish, but otherwise have been willing to leave it at what I said several days ago. <font color ="#0000cc">''North8000''</font> (]) 22:48, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
			]Your feedback is requested &#32;at ]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of ] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by ].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by ] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact ]. &#124; Sent at 16:30, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
	] Hello, I'm ]. I noticed that you made a comment on the page ] that didn't seem very ], so it has been removed. Misplaced Pages needs people like you and me to collaborate, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on ]. Thank you. <!-- Template:uw-npa1 --> ''Stop attacking other editors as you did , you are promoting a ] atmosphere. '' ]] 22:49, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

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NPP Award for 2022

		The New Page Reviewer's Bronze Award
		For over 1,000 article reviews during 2022. Well done! Keep up the good work! -MPGuy2824 (talk) 03:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@MPGuy2824: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 15:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, North8000!

Happy New Year!

North8000,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages.
— Moops 22:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

   Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops 22:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Sending a lot of these is what I was blocked for. :(

Anyway, Happy New Year North8000. Keep up the great work. — Moops 22:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Moops: Thanks for the compliment! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Ping

I forgot to ping you at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Summary of discussion so far.

So, this is your ping.  ;)     — The Transhumanist   01:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

@The Transhumanist: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 03:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Edit warring

Since you cannot decipher the diffs, I'll be happy to do step-by-step edits for your edification. The result will be the same. Just stay out until I'm done. Grorp (talk) 04:14, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@Grorp: Not that you can make that demand, but it's fine with me. And stop making false accusations of edit warring. Nobody has crossed that line yet but you are much closer to it. It's a highly contentious article with significant warranted concerns about COI edits by Scientology folks. A massive bundle of individually un-revertable edits is a way to remove scrutiny by making it too time consuming (not the BS "cannot decipher" crap) to review/deal with which is not appropriate in this case. And so a more incremental approach is common practice for these cases, not for my "edification" Please unbundle into individually revertible edits with edit summaries, or take it to talk if you disagree with that approach. I don't know the situation with regards to yourself, but if you are simply NPOV working to improve the article, thank you for your efforts. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 04:29, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

If you have no prior knowledge of my editing work in the Misplaced Pages pages of Scientology, then I invite you to look at my edit history (contributions). FYI, tiny-steps-edits are not my style and don't fit with the way my brain works while trying to update out-of-date articles. When I feel there might be blowback on an edit, I usually have more to say than can fit in an edit summary and direct readers to the talk page. The rest of my edits are pretty recognizable and/or non-controversial. By now, I'm pretty sure you've been able to see that the edits I had made in that article were not controversial at all.

Most of the Scientology articles were written in the flush of massive public interest around 2008 when Anonymous came on the scene to protest Scientology. Many of the articles have little "digs" that aren't really appropriate for an encyclopedia, and are not necessary for readers to understand the subject. As such, a lot of the 'see also' and 'external links' sections are bloated with redirection to other (usually negative) articles of Scientology which are unrelated to the topic of the page. Citations have aged and need their URLs updated from current websites or copies gotten from online archives. Many articles suffer from "too many cooks" (including enthusiastic additions by critics and careful excisions by Scientologists) and no longer make any sense when you read them; those need straightening out.

The article Scientology status by country has been on my list of things to work on, but Xxxxx's edit took me there and one thing led to another. I hope my transfigured incrementals makes sense to you. Don't, however, expect incrementals from me as a custom. It is my hope that you will recognize the style and worth of my edits and see my good faith efforts to improve the encyclopedia and be willing to try to decipher atypical diffs rather than request exhaustive explanations. Grorp (talk) 05:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@Grorp:} Thanks for the ping, the explanation and your work. My points remain the same and so I won't repeat them. IMO my comments regarding large bundles of edits on controversial article might be useful to you. It ended up well including your most recent set of edits and so again, thanks for your work. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:12, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Always precious

Ten years ago, you were found precious. That's what you are, always. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! I try. North8000 (talk) 00:49, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

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Why did you delete my comment...

Here you deleted a comment I made during a thread on Trickle-down economics at NPOVN. Can you please tell me what was inappropriate about my comment? Thanks! --Jayron32 19:55, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

@Jayron32: I wanted to give you a quick response. Going into a meeting in 10 minutes and may not be able to fix until about 2 hours from now. It was my screw-up and I don't know how I made that error. Please accept my apologies. I'll fix or else feel free to beat me to it. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:02, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Trickle-Down NPOV topic

Your last addition was fantastic. I've been trying to make this point for awhile and I think your example is the best one so far. We need to be very careful discussing impacts because we are validating the concept in wikivoice. The welfare queen example is perfect. If we say this is the impact, we de facto are calling them welfare queens through synth. Good response! Squatch347 (talk) 20:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

@Squatch347: Thanks! I have an interest in this term-related structurally more than NPOV. In this case it has NPOV impact. In other cases it sows eternal confusion at the article even when there is no NPOV issue. North8000 (talk) 20:16, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 23:16, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 00:25, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

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Featured Article Save Award

On behalf of the FAR coordinators, thank you, North8000! Your work on USS Missouri (BB-63) has allowed the article to retain its featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Misplaced Pages. I hereby award you this Featured Article Save Award, or FASA. You may display this FA star upon your userpage. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 16:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: Thanks. It was my pleasure. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:59, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 15:26, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Re: 3RR

The relevant text is in the pink box located at the WP:3RR hyperlink - An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes or manually reverses other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert.

Best. Newimpartial (talk) 21:29, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I read that differently. That if a combination of consecutive edits is a revert, it's still a revert even if each one alone is not. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:42, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I hear what you're saying, but given the very generous way individual edits are interpteted as reverts in general, it isn't clear to me how a revert could emerge in the aggregate from edits that are not themselves reverts, considered separately. But in any event, the "case law" at WP:3RRN is fairly clear that consecutive edits always count as only a single revert. Newimpartial (talk) 21:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

World War II and the history of Jews in Poland: Arbitration case opened

Hello North8000,

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 04, 2023, which is when the first evidence phase closes. Submitted evidence will be summarized by Arbitrators and Clerks at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence/Summary. Owing to the summary style, editors are encouraged to submit evidence in small chunks sooner rather than more complete evidence later.

Details about the summary page, the two phases of evidence, a timeline and other answers to frequently asked questions can be found at the case's FAQ page.

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For the Arbitration Committee,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

COI "gap"

Hello North8000,

Just a quick note to greet you outside of a noticeboard discussion.

I appreciated your recent comment at the COIN thread that there is something tangible, in certain closely examined cases, between "strongly discouraged" and "forbidden" re COI editing. Part of the community seems to be using the "wikilawyering" charge to shut down any thoughtful exploration of that gap, which I find egregiously unjust.

You make the comment above that "too often Misplaced Pages is a nasty place". I feel this, and may or may not resume editing the encyclopaedia.

In case it's of interest, I made some general comments re my concerns about the editor experience, and tendentious applications of WP policy, in my statement at my user page.

I found the content and tone of your contribution to that thread refreshing.

Sincerely, Walton22 (talk) 21:50, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

@Walton22: Thanks for the post and compliment. I really don't enough about the situation to have an opinion. The universe of Misplaced Pages editing can be a weird alternate universe and often a rough and tumble or nasty one. I don't have the wiki-minutes to take a deep broad dive, but if I can ever advise or help, let me know. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:55, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

@North8000: Thank you very much. I was happy to just make broad brush strokes now by way of this introduction, but I do very much appreciate the offer to counsel a little in the future if need be. "Alternate universe" is right! There is great potential for justice here, and indeed I see it happen often. Walton22 (talk) 16:23, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

I think

you should check the spelling of Sarah Vaugn's name in your gallery. Carptrash (talk) 18:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@Carptrash: Thanks. It looks like I have it (Vaughan) right. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:56, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

And while I have you here, what do you think of Bessie Smith & Ma Rainey as folk singers? I say "No" but it is always nice to meet a bold person who is actually willing to make the edits. Carptrash (talk) 19:15, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@Carptrash: I have no expertise on them but their articles make zero mention of such and so I'd say no. North8000 (talk) 19:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Ping (April 2023)

FYI, the ping in your reply at ANI won't work. See the documentation at Template:Ping#Usage for more info. Cheers. XAM2175  21:56, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

@XAM2175: Thanks. There was one where I did it wrong and then fixed it a few minutes later. Is that the one that you are referring to? or did I make another error.  :-) North8000 (talk) 14:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

It's this edit at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents § Proposal to Indef DBachmann. The entire point of my message is that you can't fix it – the ping only works if all of these conditions are fulfilled in the edit where you place the ping template:

• The edit must add new lines of text, not just edit existing lines.
• The edit must be signed by adding ~~~~ to the end of the message.
• The edit must either be entirely within an existing section (it cannot have new section headers in the middle) or start a new section (starts with a new section header).
• The number of users to be pinged must be equal to or less than 50.

Thus, if you forget to add a ping, or get it wrong, the easiest thing to do is revert your reply entirely and then add it again with a working ping. Cheers. XAM2175  18:37, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

@XAM2175:Thanks much for your post. I learned from it. I thought that you just needed a new signature and a new ping. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:58, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

No worries, glad I could help! 🙂 XAM2175  23:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Procedural notification

Hi, I and others have proposed additional options at Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(policy)#RfC_on_a_procedural_community_desysop. You may wish to review your position in that RfC. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:22, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

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Accidental pings?`

Hey, did I accidentally ping you 3 times consecutively in my attempt to edit the Fox News RfC? If so, so sorry. Wait, wouldn't this talk page message make it 4? Oh no. -- Mebigrouxboy (talk) 03:51, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

@Mebigrouxboy: I did get a couple of pings and it was bit confusing where they didn't go. Thanks for the pings and the post. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:19, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

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AlisonW case request accepted

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW/Evidence. Please add your evidence by June 30, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz 23:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

kkk

I think you may be misrepresenting me here. I am trying to abide by WP:CIVIL, as we all should. I find it troublesome, but perhaps it was just an accident? DN (talk) 04:24, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

@Darknipples: I didn't write anything by accident nor did I write anything uncivil. I did civilly take issue with one thing that you said about those who feel opposite that you do but even that was just a sidebar to my post. From your apologetic post I think you are being sincere and so I would like to offer a thought that might be useful. I've familiar with TFD's work (for over a decade) and they are one of the most careful, non-emotional, academic and source-based editors that I've interacted with. Their arguments (and mine) are just trying to sort out / discuss the specific narrow topics that you opened the section with. I think that you are misreading this as being about some broader POV struggle. There's nobody there who likes the KKK. IMO there are people who want to make the KKK article be (just) about the KKK. What reinforced my thought about the possible misreading was that quote that you closed you post with is something the to me looks like excellent relevant material for the article but you seemed to mistakenly thinking that the people who want to exclude that (IMHO irrelevant) material that you opened the section with have some broader exclusion goals which they don't have. In short, you may be imagining a battle that does not exist. And that a good way to sort that out would be to not conflate the narrow topic of your post that started that section with the other topics that you are mentioning, and to use the test of relevance to the article to help sort things out. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:52, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

I'll clarify my so-called "absurd argument" for you. It's because it is excluding him, not entirely, but it's still exclusion. If that's how you want to interpret it, that's up to you. I clarified that I wasn't accusing anyone and that I was talking about under-representation, not disassociation. You seemingly used a misinterpretation as a means to discredit arguments I technically wasn't trying to make, which is a Straw man. That is not something I get bent out of shape over because it isn't typically uncivil. Where it crossed the line was calling it "absurd" (your word) which adds Appeal to ridicule on top of the misrepresentation. Now try to look at it from my perspective. If my response to you was..."I didn't write anything by accident nor did I write anything uncivil", what would you do? Would you still take the time to try to clear the air in effort to keep things CIVIL? Think about it, unfortunately I won't be responding on the article talk page until this gets sorted out. Cheers. DN (talk) 01:42, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

BTW I don't mean to sound condescending, by linking those logical fallacies. I do agree with and respect the rest of your explanation, but I don't feel as though I am being acknowledged or understood properly, so when I respond sometimes I overcompensate. DN (talk) 02:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

@Darknipples: There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding. I NEVER said that you made an absurd argument. Let's let the actual words speak for themselves. Please review the following:

• You made the following statement: "While I don't agree with the explanations I've been given as to why excluding David Duke from the KKK article...."
• And I responded to /referred to that statement saying "you open with saying that somebody made the absurd argument to generally exclude David Duke from the article (which I don't see anyone having said anything like that)"

It is not abundantly clear that this is NOT calling your argument absurd? My complaint was that you were misstating the arguments of others in a way that makes them / their argument look absurd. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:51, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 20:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW closed

The arbitration case Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW has been closed, and the final decision is viewable at the case page. The following remedy has been enacted:

• For failure to meet the conduct standards expected of an administrator, AlisonW's administrative user rights are removed. She may regain them at any time via a successful request for adminship.

For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz 17:45, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW closed

SmallCat dispute case opened

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Done. Active there already. North8000 (talk) 16:33, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:36, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Carmel Valley Historical Society

@North8000: We have spoken before about the Carmel Development Company Building and the Edward G. Kuster articles, and I know you are interested in California History. Please check out the Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Carmel Valley Historical Society and add your 2 cents to keep the article. I think the article has merit and should not be deleted. Any help you can be provide would be appreciated. Thanks! Greg Henderson (talk) 22:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Greghenderson2006: I'd be happy to take a look and see what I think. In your approach to these things I'd suggest reading WP:Canvassing so that your efforts will be in compliance with that guideline. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:59, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, sorry about my approach, this has been pointed out to me. Just wanted to loop you into the discussion. Greg Henderson (talk) 15:04, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Archiving

Hello friend. Your user talk page is lagging my computer a bit. If you ever want me to set up bot archiving for you, just let me know, would be happy to help. Happy editing. –Novem Linguae (talk) 02:42, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder. I'll do some housecleaning. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 03:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

I whacked over 1/2 of it. North8000 (talk) 03:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Oxenford railway station

Thanks for the thanks, but it wasn't me who wrote it. It seems the page curation tool needs to be made a bit smarter about identifying who did the work. Yes, my edit is the first, but all I did was make a redirect for a redlink. I didn't flesh it out. The credit lies with Reubot. Kerry (talk) 21:37, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

@Kerry Raymond: Thanks for the post. I know that sometimes that is the case but it also puts the message on the talk page of the article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:12, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

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Mohamed El Amine Hammia

Please be a bit careful when nominating players that have hundreds of top-flight appearances in populous countries, as you did to Mohamed El Amine Hammia. You need to do a WP:BEFORE search in the respective language of the subject to find the best results. Paul Vaurie (talk) 17:27, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Z@Paul Vaurie: If the sources exist, why don't you just put them in the article instead of writing posts like this? North8000 (talk) 22:06, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

What in the world are you talking about? You nominated the article for deletion. I am showing that there are sources, and that the subject passes WP:GNG. I don't have to go and add them into the article. We are evaluating the subject's notablity, not the quality of the article. Please review WP:BEFORE and WP:AFD. Paul Vaurie (talk) 22:11, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

See my previous post. If you think so, then put them into the article and settle it. North8000 (talk) 22:14, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about AZ Alkmaar in European football

Hello North8800,

There a lot of similar pages in Misplaced Pages. i.e. Liverpool F.C. in international football, 1. FC Köln in European football, etc. Could you please explain me why are you thinking of deleting this page?

Magawla61 (talk)

The reasons were the ones that I gave at the AFD. If you mean responding to the "similar pages" point that you made, when IMO there is pretty clearly a problem, I don't consider the face that other similar ones exist to be a reason to change that. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:59, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:11, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:29, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

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Your comments at PragerU

Could you please stop with sarcastic comments like these? They are not helpful. This is inappropriate behavior for a contentious topic area. ––FormalDude (talk) 22:13, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

@FormalDude: I had a purpose in mind, and chose a lighthearted/indirect way to pursue it. (Rather than a direct nasty overreach like accusing of accusing a particular editor of "Making a habit out of" and "disruptive") Either way I don't plan to do any more of those there. Sincerely. North8000 (talk) 03:00, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Sorry you felt I was nasty, that was not my intent. I've changed the heading. ––FormalDude (talk) 04:44, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@FormalDude: Thanks. I Updated with the strike. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 10:49, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:23, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

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Update on my status as a wikipedia editor

I just receive a notice on my talk page.

It seems I've been given a broad, indefinite ban on editing wikipedia articles.

No explanation has been given to me as to what I've done wrong.

I don't understand this. At all. Something is very wrong, here.

@Sbelknap: You are banned from editing certain Misplaced Pages articles. I've not looked at the background leading up to this. Regarding degree of culpability maybe there are three possibilities:

1. Your behavior was fine by both Misplaced Pages real world standards and the result was a travesty.
2. You behavior was fine by real world standards but (possibly in good faith.....ala "take it to talk") not by Wiki standards. With the most likely issue being WP:bludgeoning. And some thinking by the crowd that the referred to emerging-science that is overtaking widely accepted folklore widely presumed to be science-based but which has no basis in science.
3. Your behavior was outrageous by Wiki standards .....maybe extreme WP:bludgeoning and maybe strongly pushing ideas (aside from the above) which are actually fringier.

My guess is that #2 is most likely. If so, based on what you said at ANI you've probably learned that and already shifted course. If so, I'd suggest editing the 99% of Misplaced Pages that you are not banned from (and practice that) and then ask to have the ban removed in 6 months or a year. In case it might help and if you wish, I'd agree to watch you for a month after that.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:08, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I'll take you up on that. sbelknap (talk) 22:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Do you have the authority to review AFC submissions?

I notice that you consistently like my new articles but they have a lot of trouble with getting through AFC. Are you an AFC reviewer too? Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 18:18, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: I think that the short answer is yes, (the long answer is that it is not an explicit authority) but I haven't been doing AFC reviews. I think that the (unintended) standard for getting out of AFC is tougher than passing NPP patrol because the AFC reviewer is sort of saying "this article is overall fine" where in NPP patrol we are sort of saying "it's OK for an article on this topic to exist." If you have one that you'd like me to look at ping me and I'd be happy to and do my first AFC review. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:44, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

@North8000: Here is one such page that I have been having trouble with Draft:KunitamaImmanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 18:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: That one has a few things that make it complicated. Let's say that it wasn't already at AFC and I ran across it as a harried NPP'er who has about 5 minutes or less to review the article. (NPP is basicaly a case of about 20 reviewers trying to review about 500 articles per day) . I'd give the article a quick first read and then look at the references. There is (only) one paragraph on line. The other 2 references are to off-line books. There is nothing wrong with that! However that leave me unable to verify suitable GNG coverage. Next I would try to read the article to understand what it is saying / to learn what I can from the topic. I must say that from a typical reader's standpoint, it is rough going. Throughout, your explanations utilize/depend on terms that the reader does not know. Many are linked, but IMO links are to provide additional info rather than to make the sentence understandable by a typical reader. So my recommendation would be to add a lot more plain English explanations. So I read the article (without reading/learning all of the linked articles) and really didn't get an understanding of the topic from reading it.....if I had, that would have helped me assess. So I'd google the topic. Didn't find any in-depth coverage but found enough to know that it's a real/legit topic and which sounds likely to have more substantial off-line coverage. So I'd take a gamble and give it a NPP pass. And I usually like to send the creator a note with a compliment or thanking them for their work. So, in my hypothetical scenario, I wasn't able to confirm that suitable GNG coverage existed, but took a guess/gamble that it does.

For this particular article, an AFC reviewer has already declined it so me jumping in would be a case of saying that I'm using my guess to override their review.

There are lots of possibilities here, too many to try to cover in my first post. Maybe a good next step is to ask for any thoughts of yours at this point? (as a prelude to discussing further) Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:40, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I’ll work on trying to make that one more comprehensible. What do you think about this one Draft:Suga Shrine?Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:57, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: If I were to run across that article during new page patrol, I would pass it. But IMHO it has the same readability problem that I discussed above. A reader could not learn anything from just reading it unless they first know/learn the specialized terms than nearly every sentence is dependent on. Let me give you an example.

• Sentence dependent on knowledge of the terms: The nucleus of the atom holds together because the strong force exceeds the Coulomb's law force.

• More explanatory...a person can learn something from reading it even if they do not know the meanings of the linked terms: Since the protons within a nucleus of an atom are positively charged particles, they electrostatic force would make them repel each other, tending to make the nucleus fly apart. But at the close distances within the nucleus, the strong force is even stronger, thus holding the nucleus together.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

What do you think about this draft Draft:Izumo_clan? Also for some reason the reply function is not workingImmanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 06:22, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

I think your signature might be breaking it Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 06:22, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 15:13, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:45, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Nice attempt to hide the truth.

Your removal of the Buffy Sainte Marie update that she is not Indigenous was corrected. Nice try. 2001:569:7133:1600:5428:DB94:1845:9CA5 (talk) 08:56, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

At the time it was an unsourced BLP violation, and that was explained. As sources became available, I supported the addition. However, your making this post with false accusations (even after you saw ptherwise...that I supported putting it in once sourcing was provided) IS a big problem. North8000 (talk) 10:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

I posted a known fact. You removed it. You should have done your research before removing it...or did you? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:7133:1600:9805:6498:BFE8:96DC (talk) 07:54, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

You have a lot of things backwards. See previous response. Also WP:V and WP:BLP North8000 (talk) 14:20, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

You have to admit what I posted was the truth and you removed that. At the time the truth was not available online as Buffy has spent 60 years (and the entire existence of the Internet) weaving her false story. Now Misplaced Pages is one of the only places where researchers can find the truth about Buffy. Encyclopedia Britannica (lies), PBS documentaries (lies), Numerous Major Award sites (lies) and pretty much the rest of the Internet and so called authorities have validated her lies. I am glad that numerous contributors updated her wikipedia page and you came to accept the truth, Buffy is a Pretendian. :( — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:7133:1600:EC53:E8D5:9F9F:8ADB (talk) 00:17, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

You are oblivious to what I was saying but we ended up with something that was fine with both of us. So all's well that ends well. Happy editing! North8000 (talk) 00:21, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Request

I've started a revamp of Misplaced Pages:Tools/Optimum tool set.

Please take a look and let me know if there are any essential techniques or must have tools that you think should be included.

Thank you.

Sincerely,    — The Transhumanist   06:39, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

@Transhumanist: What an interesting/ excellent page! I wouldn't know where to start regarding suggestions. My one thought is that it is written for people who have no knowledge in this specific area but sometimes presumes knowledge in it's explanations. Witness my unsuccessful experimentation (after reading it on that page) with how to make the daily tip appear at the top section. North8000 (talk) 14:18, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Very good feedback. Thank you. I wrote it to be copy/pasted from the viewed page, not the edit page. Do you think quotation marks would help?    — The Transhumanist   07:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

@Transhumanist: Thanks! Suggest putting in what you just told me....copy from the viewed page, not the edit page. Also note that it's either one or the other...not both. North8000 (talk) 14:56, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Daily tip - trying to figure out how to make this appear at the top

I've added the code to your edit page immediately below. From here you can move it to wherever you want.    — The Transhumanist   07:52, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Tip of the day...

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Brownsea Island Scout camp Featured article review

I have nominated Brownsea Island Scout camp for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:50, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Railway station

Hi. I'm here to talk about what you did with Piaseczno Narrow-Gauge Railway. It's a mess. You cannot just change he name of article (Wierzbno station) and pretend its entirely new article. You didn't write anything about the railway, you didn't change the interlanguage link, and you didn't mention any other railway stations. Not to mention it's not even the first time you took upon yourself to "delete" article about minor railway station without any discussion.Artemis Andromeda (talk) 12:20, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Artemis Andromeda: I was going to AFD the railway station article during NPP (IMO clearly fails wp:notability) but instead thought of using it to start an article on the rail line. I though another station article (with the same problem which I would have also AFD'd) which I thought was on the same rail line and planned to put material from both articles into the rail line article. I knew that it would temporarily be a mess, which is what you noted. Then I noticed that the second article was not on the same rail line. That is as far as I got. I think that an article on the rail line (including details and images on the stations) would work out excellently and survive. At this point, what would you prefer to do? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Recapping, I was going to AFD the railway station article during NPP (IMO clearly fails wp:notability) but instead thought of using it to start an article on the rail line. There was another station article (with the same problem which I would have also AFD'd) which I thought was on the same rail line and planned to put material from both articles into the rail line article. I knew that it would temporarily be a mess, which is what you noted. Then I noticed that the second article was not on the same rail line. That is as far as I got. I think that an article on the rail line (including details and images on the stations) would work out excellently and survive. It turns out that the other station/article is not on this particular rail line. If I receive no response to my question below I plan to circle back and tidy the situation up a bit.North8000 (talk) 21:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@North8000: Don't start messes you don't intend to fix. Tell me, whose now gonna go and write an entire article about Piaseczno Railway? Me? You? Some third person who will stumble onto it in the next 10 years? You cannot just make messy articles like this and hope somebody else will fix it.Artemis Andromeda (talk) 15:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Artemis Andromeda: That's not an answer to my question, which seems a very reasonable one. In light of my response, what would like to happen next? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC) North8000 (talk) 19:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Also, as a sidebar, you had numerous implied accusations like "don't intend" which are pretty creative, particularly in light of what I wrote. North8000 (talk) 19:41, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

If you wanted to delete the article, you should have had just report it for deletion on the notability basis. If you wanted to creat article about the Piaseczno Railway, you should have had just made a new article. Instead, you just changed the name, without changing any content in the article itself. It's now unencyclopedical, contins wrong categories, is still linked to Polish Misplaced Pages article about Wierzbno station, and talks only about this one station, and has basically no information about the railway line itself. You cannot just do that, and hope that somebody else will notice, and ever come to fix that, and write a proper article, because most of the times, nobody does (it's to niche to be notices).Artemis Andromeda (talk) 19:50, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

@Artemis Andromeda: Again no answer to my very reasonable question. This is far simpler and easier to resolve than you seem to think. Again, what would like to happen next? North8000 (talk) 21:58, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Request for feedback on two drafts

I have two drafts that I would like your feedback on

• Draft:Owari clan
• Draft:Yamato no Kuni no Miyatsuko

I feel both are currently in a good state but might need some improvement. I am planning on taking a break rather soon and hope I can get them through quickly before it Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 20:38, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: I was off the grid for a few days and it will be a couple days before I get caught back up in Misplaced Pages. North8000 (talk) 14:18, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Owari clan article

As an experienced NPP reviewer (and more recent AFC reviewer)

@Immanuelle: As an experienced NPP reviewer (and more recent AFC reviewer) I would pass it. The main criteria is "should this exist as a separate article in Misplaced Pages?", with wp:notability being the main question. There are no obvious GNG references to confirm this. However, taking into account the (very old) period and the more obscure topic, the apparent type and quantity of references, the large diversity of footnoted coherent content developed from the references, I would make a judgement call and pass it. North8000 (talk) 16:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

General article notes

From my limited knowledge of you past article, this looks much more readable and substantial that many of your previous ones. By readable" I've seen previous ones that as basicaly unreadable by a typical reader. In nearly every sentence they rely on knowledge of unfamiliar terms to understand what the sentence says. This article has far fewer of such problems. Alo0s it is more substantial and more content and source that your typical one.North8000 (talk) 16:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

As a typical AFC reviewer

As a typical (more cautious) AFC reviewer I might fail it or skip reviewing it. I'd see no clear cut GNG sources; it would take days of research to see if any of those sources confirm GNG compliance, especially since you did not include page numbers and the sources are off-line. And since you've had some troubles at the notice boards, I would be particularly cautious and err on the safe side. North8000 (talk) 16:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Yamato no Kuni no Miyatsuko article

This article is a bit weaker in all of the areas I discussed above in the Owari section. I'll need more looking at it before I could say anything. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:05, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

To a typical reader, this article is nearly unreadable. Nearly every sentence relies on knowledge on some obscure term to even know what the sentence says. Having an internal link to a term does not change that, a reader should not have to read another article just to figure out what each sentences says. Internal links are generally more "for further reading". Also, you are creating redlinks for plan English words where the target of the redlink is not even in the sentence. I would not consider these items grounds to reject an article, but having an article with a severe problem in this area is a significant problem. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

@North8000: I tried to fix the Yamato no Kuni no Miyatsuko article. I see both of them were recently accepted. I noticed somehow the reply function broke so I am unsure what happened (unsigned by Immanuelle)

@Immanuelle: Cool. Hope my comments helped even if they were friendly-blunt. Wish you the best and happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:42, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

@North8000: Yeah they were helpful. Yamato no Kuni no Miyatsuko is pretty difficult I think to explain and I will want to do further rewriting of it to make it clearer. btw are your pronouns he/him or is wikipedia just not set up weith them? I thought you had a pic and were a girl.Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 21:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: Cool. I have on my user page "I live in the USA and (to simplify the pronoun question for folks) am male." but beyond that I don't participate in stating pronouns. North8000 (talk) 21:57, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 01:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@Immanuelle: Nope, just an image that I liked due to a combination of several things. I'm a lot older and uglier than that. North8000 (talk) 03:08, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@North8000 I think your signature is broken since I can reply to my comments but not yours Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 01:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:13, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Anand Srivastava

FYI this was undeleted at REFUND recently due to it being a soft-deletion. Just a courtesy heads-up given you were the last AfD nominator, and may wish to re-nominate. Cheers, Daniel (talk) 20:31, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

@Daniel: Thanks for the post and heads up. My nomination was just under trying to do my NPP job properly. It's still tagged for wp:notability and awaiting another NPP review. I might just let a second set of eyes review it. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2024!

Hello North8000, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2024. Happy editing, Jerium (talk) 16:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Jerium (talk) 16:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for participating in AfC November 2023 Backlog Drive

	The Working Man's Barnstar
	Thank you for your participation in the Articles for Creation's November 2023 Backlog Drive! You made a total of 40 reviews, for a total of 67.5 points. – robertsky (talk) 06:50, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks!

Happy holidays!

– robertsky (talk) is wishing you Happy Holidays! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user Happy Holidays, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Happy holidays}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

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Good article reassessment for Foundation for Economic Education

Foundation for Economic Education has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 23:54, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

NPP Awards for 2023

		The New Page Reviewer's Iron Award
		For over 360 article reviews during 2023. Well done! Keep up the good work and thank you! Dr vulpes (Talk) 02:50, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Scientology

Hello North8000, as described at the bottom of the recent edit-warring noticeboard discussion, I have removed some examples of unproductive remarks by all mentioned editors in Special:Diff/1194995281. Best regards, ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:38, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't agree that "I think it's time for you to mellow out. That would be much more pleasant for everybody, including you. " is an unproductive remark. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

2024

Die Zeit, die Tag und Jahre macht

Happy New Year

2024

Thank you for your comments on ANI about perspective (while I slept)! As you know, I have a DYK on the Main page, but my story would be different, about Figaro, - this Figaro. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:43, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: My pleasure and they were well deserved! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 00:04, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! - On the Main page: the person who made the pictured festival possible --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

story · music · places

Yesterday was a friend's birthday, with related music. - I'm on vacation - see places. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks for that interesting note! North8000 (talk) 14:43, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Administrator Conduct Case 2024-1: Mzajac opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Administrator Conduct Case 2024-1: Mzajac. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Administrator Conduct Case 2024-1: Mzajac/Evidence. Please add your evidence by January 30, 2024, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Administrator Conduct Case 2024-1: Mzajac/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz 17:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

NPOVN

This is turning into quite a little rant. I was considering a hat, but I think that honor should go to someone else. Do you have any further suggestions? Cheers. DN (talk) 02:59, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

@Darknipples: I have some ideas but I'm buried in RL for the next 2 hours. North8000 (talk) 17:54, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

No worries, thanks for looking in, I do appreciate it. DN (talk) 19:14, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

My pleasure. North8000 (talk) 19:25, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thank you for your effort and contributions to Misplaced Pages. HeraTheGoddess (talk) 23:27, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@HeraTheGoddess: Thanks! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Group Otte

I replaced the notability tags you added to Group Otte with an expand German tag. When I was looking for additional sources I found the de.wikipedia article and the German name for the group. The de.wikipedia article has several German language sources in addition to the 3 or 4 now in the English article. Let me know if you still think it needs the tags. Ben Azura (talk) 18:05, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Ben Azura: Cool. Thanks for your work. I marked it as reviewed. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:13, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Anatolia on a "History and geography" request for comment, and at Misplaced Pages talk:Interface administrators on a "Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines" request for comment, and at Talk:2024 Republican Party presidential primaries on a "Politics, government, and law" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Consistent reviewing query

Hi, it looks like you are only interested in reviews done after 2023. I've modified the query to support this. The new query runs much faster (14s vs 325s) and also gives much less results which would make your post-processing easier too. Please fork it. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 03:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

@MPGuy2824: Thanks. I figured that we need to have it start somewhere, and in order to serve it's purpose, where interested people can be in and keep themselves in Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:20, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

BTW if we went back farther, there would be only one person in the running. So we're trying to create more folks doing that. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment

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Repeat !voting

You've now double-voted on at least two proposals at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_adminship/2024_review/Phase_I (in one case twice for the same position, in another case twice for different positions). --JBL (talk) 22:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

@JayBeeEll: Thanks. I'll go look and fix. North8000 (talk) 01:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

It's hard to keep track with a gigantic page with about 40 proposals.North8000 (talk) 03:45, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

No kidding! --JBL (talk) 17:57, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

I felt better when I saw that I gave edge case answers ("weak ...." and "Neutral") on the one where I had different positions! North8000 (talk) 18:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Haha, indeed. In one of them it had been fully 3 weeks in between, I think very understandable. It does look to me like you still have two oppose votes in proposal 4 and two supports in 16, though. --JBL (talk) 19:25, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I fixed. North8000 (talk) 19:32, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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RFA2024 update: no longer accepting new proposals in phase I

Hey there! This is to let you know that phase I of the 2024 requests for adminship (RfA) review is now no longer accepting new proposals. Lots of proposals remain open for discussion, and the current round of review looks to be on a good track towards making significant progress towards improving RfA's structure and environment. I'd like to give my heartfelt thanks to everyone who has given us their idea for change to make RfA better, and the same to everyone who has given the necessary feedback to improve those ideas. The following proposals remain open for discussion:

• Proposal 2, initiated by HouseBlaster, provides for the addition of a text box at Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship reminding all editors of our policies and enforcement mechanisms around decorum.
• Proposals 3 and 3b, initiated by Barkeep49 and Usedtobecool, respectively, provide for trials of discussion-only periods at RfA. The first would add three extra discussion-only days to the beginning, while the second would convert the first two days to discussion-only.
• Proposal 5, initiated by SilkTork, provides for a trial of RfAs without threaded discussion in the voting sections.
• Proposals 6c and 6d, initiated by BilledMammal, provide for allowing users to be selected as provisional admins for a limited time through various concrete selection criteria and smaller-scale vetting.
• Proposal 7, initiated by Lee Vilenski, provides for the "General discussion" section being broken up with section headings.
• Proposal 9b, initiated by Reaper Eternal, provides for the requirement that allegations of policy violation be substantiated with appropriate links to where the alleged misconduct occured.
• Proposals 12c, 21, and 21b, initiated by City of Silver, Ritchie333, and HouseBlaster, respectively, provide for reducing the discretionary zone, which currently extends from 65% to 75%. The first would reduce it 65%–70%, the second would reduce it to 50%–66%, and the third would reduce it to 60%–70%.
• Proposal 13, initiated by Novem Lingaue, provides for periodic, privately balloted admin elections.
• Proposal 14, initiated by Kusma, provides for the creation of some minimum suffrage requirements to cast a vote.
• Proposals 16 and 16c, initiated by Thebiguglyalien and Soni, respectively, provide for community-based admin desysop procedures. 16 would desysop where consensus is established in favor at the administrators' noticeboard; 16c would allow a petition to force reconfirmation.
• Proposal 16e, initiated by BilledMammal, would extend the recall procedures of 16 to bureaucrats.
• Proposal 17, initiated by SchroCat, provides for "on-call" admins and 'crats to monitor RfAs for decorum.
• Proposal 18, initiated by theleekycauldron, provides for lowering the RfB target from 85% to 75%.
• Proposal 24, initiated by SportingFlyer, provides for a more robust alternate version of the optional candidate poll.
• Proposal 25, initiated by Femke, provides for the requirement that nominees be extended-confirmed in addition to their nominators.
• Proposal 27, initiated by WereSpielChequers, provides for the creation of a training course for admin hopefuls, as well as periodic retraining to keep admins from drifting out of sync with community norms.
• Proposal 28, initiated by HouseBlaster, tightens restrictions on multi-part questions.

To read proposals that were closed as unsuccessful, please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/2024 review/Phase I/Closed proposals. You are cordially invited once again to participate in the open discussions; when phase I ends, phase II will review the outcomes of trial proposals and refine the implementation details of other proposals. Another notification will be sent out when this phase begins, likely with the first successful close of a major proposal. Happy editing! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her), via:

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Vigraharaja IV's first war against the Muslims

Hello, North8000,

I just thought I'd let you know that this article, which was just moved to this particular title, had the PROD tag you added last week removed. Editors used to be routinely notified if an article they tagged was de-PROD'd but that habit has kind of died out now that we have more articles being de-PROD'd than in the past. So, I just thought I'd alert you in case you wished to take it to WP:AFD. Thank you. Liz 21:49, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@Liz: Thanks for the heads up. It was sitting in the NPP que for almost 4 months and nothing was happening on problems (including a severe one with the title and thus title-defined subject) long noted by others. With the title change it would probably need hours of learning by me or involvement of someone more knowledgeable on the topic than me to figure out what to do next. Either way it still has "waiting for NPP" flag on it. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:07, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Tokio Hotel's Your Christmas

I have found twice now this article redirected to the band's main article. This was down to "no evidence of notability", despite it charting at 42 on Official German Charts. Please enlighten me on what other evidence of notability is needed, because I thought if a song charted in at least one country, that's enough.

Bandit5660 (talk) 12:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

@Bandit5660: The main idea of wp:notability, including the wording choices at N:Music is having the in depth coverage in sources from which to build an article from. Similarly in the discussions at other policies and guidelines even if one made points such as yours regarding the wp:notability condition. This article has no such coverage and no such content. IMO it should be merged into the band or album article. I'm going to step away from this one from a NPP standpoint (and also I'm not tagging it) and let someone else review it. Either way, happy editing!North8000 (talk) 14:56, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Livy Renata

Hello! I am asking you to please review my article to see if it is worthy of being moved to the main page of the English Misplaced Pages. I have replaced some references that were not reliable sources and added careers to the article. If you don't think the article is worthy please feel free to make suggestions on the article's talk page or my user talk page. Thanks and regards Badak Jawa (talk) 07:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Closed-loop geothermal

Hi, Thanks for your note at AfC help desk. Appreciate your review/direct edits/comments on the draft page for closed-loop geothermal here: Draft:Closed-loop geothermal to improve probability of approval at submission. Thanks in advance. Nemesia345 (talk) 19:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

@Nemesia345: I copied them into the talk page of the draft....is that what you meant? Also, just clarifying, if you wish I could do the AFC review when you resubmit if you pinged me. I'd probably also do the NPP review at the same time. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:58, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For being one of the best reviewer. Your work is not going unnoticed. You are doing good work! Keep it up! Tumbuka Arch (talk) 10:40, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

@Tumbuka Arch: Thanks! I try! North8000 (talk) 13:14, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Djong (ship) has an RfC

Djong (ship) has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you.

Talk:Djong (ship) on a "History and geography" request for comment-- your comment would be greatly appreciated Merzostin (talk) 14:07, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Closed-loop geothermal

Hi, the Draft:Closed-loop geothermal page has been resubmitted. Sections on Technology and Related Terminology were added to address your comments. Appreciate your AFC and NPP review per prior Talk topic if possible! Nemesia345 (talk) 03:28, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

@Nemesia345: I did it. Nice work! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Draft: Ami Dror

@North8000:, thank you for your review. Any chance you could look into Draft: Ami Dror as well? --Omer Toledano (talk) 15:48, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

The core question is whether or not there are independent sources that cover him in depth. If you could pick out the two references that best do this and ping me I'd be happy to take a look. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

@North8000: Hi again. There is this article from "Shine News" in Shanghai, and this article (in Hebrew) in "Calcalist", references 32 & 33 respectively on the current draft. There is also this article on Israe21c, reference number 30 in current draft. In addition, Ami Dror is a prominent protest leader who is constantly sought after by television media, and radio. Your help would be greatly appreciated. --Omer Toledano (talk) 07:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

@Omert33: Those look very solid. My wiki-minutes are limited which is why I'm asking you to do legwork in order for me to help.

1. Are all 3 of those references currently in the article? (please be sure to answer this question even if not)
2. If not, can you put them in and then confirm to me?

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

@North8000:, the answer is yes. All three references are in the article. --Omer Toledano (talk) 08:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@Omert33: Nice work. I moved it to article space and NPP reviewed.Left a post at talk referencing this thread regarding GNG sourcing. North8000 (talk) 13:22, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@North8000:, thank you so much for your help but I now see that it has been nominated for deletion. Why are they doing this? --Omer Toledano (talk) 14:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm not going to hypothesize. See my comments at the AFD. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 15:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Page Review Request

Hi North8000, Thank you for reviewing the page I wrote about ThirumaLi and leaving an appreciation note saying nice work :) Thank you. I was wondering if you would also be able to review a page I wrote about Masala Coffee's founder - Varun Sunil, please? Thanks! 𝓡𝔂𝓭𝓮𝔁 15:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

My Wiki minutes are limited, but if you could help a bit..... In your case it needs to have GNG sources, which means published independent sources that cover the topic of the article (Varun Sunil) In depth. Could you pick out the 2-3 sources in the article that you think best fulfill this requirement? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Definitely. I understand. Sharing few GNG Sources for you to review them easier. Here's 1 (The Hindu Article - Considered a Reliable Source), 2, 3 Thank you for your time, North8000. 𝓡𝔂𝓭𝓮𝔁 17:55, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I did the review. Happy editing! North8000 (talk) 21:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed

Hi North8000. Thank you for your work on Amloki (TV series). Another editor, Sohom Datta, has reviewed it as part of new pages patrol and left the following comment:

Hey, Just wanted to let you know, Times of India (and WP:CHURNALISM reporting from other Indian news sources) are generally considered fairly unreliable. (See WP:NEWSORGINDIA).

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Sohom Datta}}. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Sohom (talk) 00:44, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sohom Datta: Thanks for the post and info. I'm a bit confused in a couple ways......I didn't work on / edit the article. I left a note but didn't review it and you did. But thanks for the info. North8000 (talk) 01:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sohom Datta: Do you have much experience with Times of India. I can understand where they they might not be reliable enough for various purposes (such as sourcing something controversial for BLP). But my most common situation is where `I'm evaluating for GNG coverage in the customary degree of stringency. For example, if they have a substantive article on someone that looks like a real article (not posting a bio supplied by the person). So we're basically looking for puplished independent coverage. Do you think that they fall short for that type of thing? Enough so to not look at Times of India when reviewing for GNG coverage? North8000 (talk) 01:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

(In response to your first question), PageTriage does list you as the reviewer (which is why I sent this note). Sohom (talk) 01:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

My approach to looking at Times of India for notability purposes is to take each and every individual article on a case by case basis. In the case of Amloki (TV series) almost all of the articles are short (compare the size of vs or even which is just a fluffy summary of a tweet), do not have an attributed author and are written in the style of a press release which makes me doubt their reliability and neutrality. For most BLPs, companies and TV shows (basically any topic where paid publishing can be a concern) I tend to approach TOI reporting with scepticism from a notability POV. Sohom (talk) 01:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Help

@North8000: Greetings again. Could you please take a look at this discussion on the talk page? Your view on the matter would be appreciated. --Omer Toledano (talk) 10:00, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	I would really appreciate your efforts at NPP. You are really a great new page patroller. Please keep up the good work! Maliner (talk) 17:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Maliner: Thanks! I try! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Re: AfDs

Hi North8000, I'd like to raise a concern regarding your AfDs and ask for clarification. I appreciate that you do a lot of review of new pages. However, I'm concerned about how thorough your WP:BEFORE searches are particularly as they relate to looking for native language sources are required under step B7 of the process. I notice that you've recently nominated articles for deletion where the primary language is Divehi, Arabic, Bengali, Filipino, Azerbaijani, and Japanese. These are quite varied languages and the probability that one person can do a competent WP:BEFORE search in all of these languages strikes me as unlikely. Understand you're a far more experienced editor than I am but it strikes me that in some cases articles may be getting deleted that would be kept if someone who spoke the language searched for sources. I appreciate that I was notified when you nominated a page I created but perhaps it would also be appropriate to somehow notify other editors who speak the appropriate language or consult them before making a nomination? Misplaced Pages is already known to have a systematic bias towards the Anglo world and I would hate for a pattern of AfD nominations to reinforce that bias. Just a note and appreciate that you help cull quite a bit of spam from the website. DCsansei (talk) 11:36, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@DCsansei: Thanks for that thoughtful post. I think that even the most thorough search in all languages would not result in a keep on the first 5 of those 6 and maybe also the 6th. Discussing all of them would be a long multi-faceted discussion on each of them I'm not able to do here right now. But maybe if you could pick one of theme to have a more in-depth discussion on I'd be happy to do that and I think it would be helpful. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:13, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I also don't consider myself qualified to evaluate the notability of most of the examples I provided: I don't speak those languages. My interest was piqued by Shibata Takumi (fund manager), an article I started a few weeks ago with the intention of coming back to but didn't expect the notability to be questioned. I struggle to see how you could come to the conclusion that he isn't notable if a BEFORE search was conducted. I'm working to improve the article a bit now to at least head-off deletion (with the intent of return to it further later). I found your response when I provided numerous sources a bit dismissive particularly as it relates to perpetrating Misplaced Pages's tendency to focus entirely on American/English topics despite being a global resource. Shibata was described (in English) by Reuters as one of Japan's most high-profile financial executives and there are numerous sources describing his various career moves. If English-speaking editors don't view one of the most high-profile business leaders in what was then the world's second largest economy as obviously notable on Misplaced Pages it's no wonder we have systematic bias. DCsansei (talk) 12:41, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@DCsansei: Well that was the "#6" that I referred to which could go either way. Long story short, structurally the current question is whether or not there are two (maybe one will do) published independent sources that cover the topic of the article (him) in depth. And the main point behind that is to see if there is enough published in-depth material to create a real wiki-article from. So the question isn't how "real world notable" he is, the question is whether or not those 2 sources exist. So if somebody googles a person and finds a whole lot of "hits" that doesn't answer that question. The real work is going through those hits to find the 2 (or maybe 1) sources that fulfill the relevant criteria (or find out that they don't exist). The flip side is that if those 2 (maybe one) sources exist to advise that keeping the article is far simpler than you think.....just identify those two sources and it's a "keep".

There might be a bit of a background thing that affected the shortness of my response. Which might be me (possibly mistakenly) assuming that you know all of the above. About the 20 most active NPP'ers need to do about 90% of the review work and right now we're struggling to get through / drowning in a 15,000 article backlog. With the "real work" part being sorting through a bunch of hits to find the 1-2 sources of the right type, your post could be taken as criticizing me for not doing that work while declining to actually do that work. Either way, thanks for your posts. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:22, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Admittedly, I was not pleased with being asked to do any "real work" since I'm on holiday this week so finding the 7-day AfD clock during time it would take away from vacation rather than work is not ideal. Not a knock on your work patrolling new articles which must run across a lot of craff. Could you take another look at the article now? I believe notability should be apparent now although I'll continue slowly reviewing Japanese sources. DCsansei (talk) 11:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@DCsansei: Here's a copy of my post at that "#6"

"Keep/withdraw The creator has increased it from 4 references up to 27 references. They've also asked me to take a look at those/the article as they are away on vacation/holidays. (IMO this mostly means analyzing all of the new references and finding the GNG-best ones per my request above)....happy to help someone enjoy their vacation/holidays and I did. Most of the best looking ones are behind paywalls, but as a minimum there are many near-GNG references by top tier sources. They have also expanded the article substantially with enclyclopedic content, also indicative of the addition of in-depth references. While I can't vouch for the most rigorous-interpretation GNG compliance, I have decided to switch to "keep/withdraw"."

Enjoy your vacation! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 11:57, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I appreciate your engagement here. DCsansei (talk) 07:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Monthly reviewers query

Hey North8000, I noticed you are having trouble with that monthly reviewers query. I can assist you, but first, I’ll need to create a page in your userspace. Once that’s done, you’ll be able to update data with just one click anytime you need to. – DreamRimmer (talk) 03:21, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer: Great! Please do! Thanks. North8000 (talk) 14:03, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and created User:North8000/New pages patrol/Reports in your userspace. Moving forward, a bot will take care of updating the data every 30 days. Plus, you can always grab the latest reports yourself by simply clicking 'Update the table now' whenever you want. – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:49, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer: Wow! Thanks. Is there a way I can export it to a file? Because that's how I was doing what I was doing. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:33, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Which format? – DreamRimmer (talk) 12:39, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer: I import into MS Access, so almost any structured file will do. But let's say Excel or .csv. If this is possible, thanks!North8000 (talk) 14:46, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Exporting from there isn’t possible, but you can use this website to download it as a CSV file. Just copy and paste the URL of the table page, then click on the send button. That’s all. – DreamRimmer (talk) 17:45, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 16:49, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer: thanks for doing this while I was off-wiki.

@North8000: is this good enough for your workflow? I notice that the report has been refreshed a few times. Hopefully, one of those times was you. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 06:29, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@MPGuy2824: @DreamRimmer: Yes, it worked out great and thanks to everyone. Just trying to learn a bit....what does that one run in seconds where the other one wouldn't complete even in hours. Or maybe I was doing something wrong. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:57, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment

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There is a mop reserved in your name

You are a remarkable editor in many ways. You would be a good administrator, in my opinion, and appear to be well qualified. You personify an administrator without tools and have gained my support already!

Maliner (talk) 17:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Maliner: Thanks! I try! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Seconding this, I've seen your work around in NPP, I've found most of your work to be pretty solid :) Sohom (talk) 19:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Sohom Datta: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 19:16, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Why not, please? North8000 is an expensive editor and I admire your work at NPP. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:15, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

North8000 is one of the remarkable page reviewers I've ever seen. The fast yet accurate is giving. You're now the third I'm owing a rock and I support all about you. Safari Scribe 22:19, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

• I have often and many times seen and been impressed by your competence, conduct, and clue North8000, and like the others here: I think you would be a very good administrator. I also believe that your RfA would easily succeed as your qualifications are readily obvious, robust and well rounded, and rock solid by any fair measure. Your temperament is as close to admin perfect as it can practically be. And it's unambiguously clear that your character traits are genuine (not a contrived cell in your body I'm certain). Misplaced Pages is better because of you and the gifts of your time given. Above all else, I sincerely thank you for that. And I would be thrilled to support you for adminship. Having said these things with best regards, I wish you wellness and good cheer.--John Cline (talk) 00:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@John Cline: Thanks. I'd be happy to serve but it's a big decision to go through the RFA process. North8000 (talk) 12:17, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

+1 – DreamRimmer (talk) 16:53, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm only seeing this now, good idea! Didn't know you weren't an admin yet. My email is open if you'd like to get some private feedback or talk about about a nomination. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 18:35, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I really believe that you will pass your RFA with flying colors. Regards! Maliner (talk) 15:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Adding a section to a closed discussion.

Hi, I do not think it is a good idea to continue a closed discussion, like what you have done at this section of the Jordan Peterson talk page regarding the Jubilee medal 14 minutes after the closure of that discussion. I have planned to revert it, but due to uncertainty over how appropriate the revision really is (and how appropriate it would be to revert it), I have found it better to instead discuss that revision here with you. CarlFilip19 (talk) 21:35, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

@CarlFilip19: What I did was both OK and appropriate. Including responding to a comment/accusation about me wrongly implying that I was out of line because I participated in a discussion without an invitation. Or I could have reopened it to make it even more official. But it would be improper to revert it.  :-) Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:07, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

@North8000: Thank you for nice response. Well, now that you say it, I will let you keep that comment of yours, especially to use an answer to resolve a conflict. CarlFilip19 (talk) 14:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 17:44, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

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Review of Indian_Arm_Wrestling_Federation

Hi North8000. Thanks for reviewing this article. Gardenkur (talk) 03:40, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

@Gardenkur: Nice to hear from you again! Looks like all is going well. North8000 (talk) 12:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Thanks for your response. Yes things are fine and hope the same with you. With other things on hand the contribution towards Misplaced Pages reduced, though efforts to improve this platform with guidance from all is always there. Gardenkur (talk) 02:52, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Notice of reliable sources noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is The Telegraph and trans issues. Thank you. I am informing you because you have commented on a prior RfC on a similar issue. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 03:00, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:40, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:53, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry!

I had no idea that I did this until I got the ping. Must've hit revert with my fat fingers. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Muboshgu: Thanks for the post. I was wondering about that. North8000 (talk) 22:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done.

Page Review Request

Greetings North8000, Hope you're having a great day! I was wondering if you could review a recent article I wrote about a record label Mass Appeal India, please? Here's couple of independent sources - 1, 2, 3, 4

Thank you! 𝓡𝔂𝓭𝓮𝔁 13:04, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@Rydex64: Looks like someone already did it. Happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Ami Dror

Why did you move that article to mainspace when rejected article to mainspace? scope_creep 14:10, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@Scope creep: I don't know what you mean by the 2nd half of your sentence, but regarding the first half, IMO it's very solid that there is no reason for it to not be in mainspace. And on what is likely the main question, IMO has sourcing to solidly meet GNG, much more solid that a typical new article. In your AFD nom, you indicated that is has some low quality sources, I did not review all 57 sources, just enough to confirm GNG compliance. If some (or many) of the other 57 have the problems that you describe, that is not a reason to delete the article or preclude it from mainspace. BTW, I plan to move this thread to my talk page. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I posted this really quickly. I thought it was your talk page. scope_creep 15:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

See what the Afd says I guess. I can't believe I posted to your user page. scope_creep 15:33, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

@Scope creep: No sweat. Wish you the best and thanks for your work. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

May 2024 NPP backlog drive – Points award

		The New Page Patroller's Barnstar
		This award is given in recognition to North8000 for accumulating at least 100 points during the May 2024 NPP backlog drive. Your contributions helped play a part in the 14,452 reviews completed during the drive. Thank you so much for taking part and contributing to help reduce the backlog! Hey man im josh (talk) 18:58, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Page Review Request

Hey @North8000, Hope you're having a great day! I wrote an article about Tech Panda & Kenzani back in March, and it's not reviewed yet. I'd really appreciate it if you can take a look! :) Thanks as always! 𝓡𝔂𝓭𝓮𝔁 09:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

@Rydex64: Hello Rydex64. I really don't do "respond to request" reviews about current personalities/groups engaged in a business. This one would need a large amount of work going through all of the references to see if there some GNG references which it would need to have in order to pass wp:notability. But if you'd like to help pick out the references most likely to be GNG references, I'd be happy to review. This would be to select the 2-3 references which best meet the following criteria: Independent, published sources which cover Tech Panda & Kenzani in depth. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:30, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Hey @North8000, Oh apologies, I forgot to mention they're an Electronic music group/band. And surely, I will select the 3 best references for you to review easily. Here - 1, 2, 3 Thanks!

Hey hey @North8000, Sorry for the ping! I think the previous message might have slipped through your mind. Could you please take a look when you have a couple of minutes? Thanks a lot! :)

@Rydex64: Sorry I missed that you already looked. The first is just to the article but I did review it. Happy editing! North8000 (talk) 19:58, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oops! Sorry haha, It was an accident. But, thanks for the review. Appreciate it! Cheers.

Note regarding attribution of merges in page history

Thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. It appears that you copied or moved text from one or more pages into Council Service Territories. While you are welcome to re-use Misplaced Pages's content, here or elsewhere, Misplaced Pages's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Misplaced Pages, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from ]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Misplaced Pages:Copying within Misplaced Pages. Thank you. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 17:45, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

@Red-tailed hawk: Thanks for the note. I was thinking that it was obvious because I noted in the edit summary that it was implementing a merged decided at AFD, and the talk page discussed what the source article was. But better to also put it into the edit summary which I didn't do. North8000 (talk) 13:11, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Request to review proposed undo

Greetings, @North8000. Grateful if you could kindly have a look at this suggestion about the Met page and let me know what you think. It's about a merger you made from In America: An Anthology of Fashion a couple of years ago. Thank you. —Protalina (talk) 11:01, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Happy to. I posted there. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:46, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Your random pages survey

Hello North8000, I stumbled across your survey of 1000 random articles. Would you mind if I add it to Category:Random pages tests? It seems to be among the largest conducted! – Teratix ₵ 11:18, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

@Teratix: Thanks for asking. Please do! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:33, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

New pages patrol September 2024 Backlog drive

New pages patrol | September 2024 Backlog Drive
On 1 September 2024, a one-month backlog drive for new pages patrol will begin. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles and redirects patrolled. Barnstars will also be granted for re-reviewing articles previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive. Each article review will earn 1 point, and each redirect review will earn 0.2 points. Interested in taking part? Sign up here.
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:10, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

AfD

Double votes going on AFD Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Prashant_Kumar_(IPS). Special:Contributions/2409:4052:6DB5:4E1E:E854:79CD:AC15:7C77 is very much dsrprj (creator of the page). dsrprj says in vote, "Does not look like a BLP1E to me" and the IP says, "My only lingering concern would be WP:BLP1E." Dsrprj double voted before so won't be surprised by this. RangersRus (talk) 10:53, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

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Done (5 of the 6) North8000 (talk) 14:03, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Duke Buchan

Hi North8000, I've been working on updating Duke Buchan's page. As you are a member of WikiProject Conservatism, I thought you may be interested in reviewing my suggestions on the Talk page. Thank you, appreciate your time and assistance. Debbie for Duke Buchan (talk) 13:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I didn't think I was a member of that project but I'd be happy to look at the article. North8000 (talk) 13:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Found it....got invited 13 years ago and said I was more libertarian. North8000 (talk) 13:39, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 15:10, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines request for comment

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Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day! Hi North8000! On behalf of the Birthday Committee, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made your first edit and became a Wikipedian! Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 00:01, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

@Cowboygilbert: thanks! 15 years flew by. North8000 (talk) 02:33, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day! Hi North8000! On behalf of the Birthday Committee, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made your first edit and became a Wikipedian! The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society

Dear North8000,

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the Fifteen Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Misplaced Pages project for fifteen years or more. ​

Best regards, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

— The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:46, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

History section of Neural network (machine learning)

Dear User:North8000, thanks for your efforts! On 15-16 September 2024 I edited Neural network (machine learning). You reverted and wrote: "You are doing massive reassignment of credit for Neural Networks based on your interpretation of their work and primary sources and deleting secondary sourced assignments. Please slow down and take such major reassignments to talk first." So that's what I am doing now. (Not quite sure whether this should be done on the article's talk page or your own.) Please note that most of my edits just resurrected important old references deleted on 7 August 2024 in a major edit when User:Cosmia Nebula (whose efforts I appreciate) tried to compress the text‎. I also fixed links in some of the old references, added a few new ones (both primary and secondary sources), corrected many little errors, and tried to streamline some of the explanations. IMO these edits substantially improved the history section of the article, although a lot remains to be done. Now I'd like to ask you: please check out the details and revert your revert! Best regards, Speedboys (talk) 16:42, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Speedboys: Thanks for your work and your post. The series of rapid fire edits ended up being entangled where they an't be reviewed/ potentially reverted separately. In that bundle were several which IMO pretty creatively shifted/assigned credit for being the one to pioneer various aspect. So I'm not open to reinstating that whole linked bundle including those. Why not just slow down and put those things back in at a pace where they can be reviewed? And the the ones that are are a reach (transferring or assigning credit for invention) take to talk first. You are most familiar with the details of your edits and are in the best position to know those. I'd be happy to discuss at either place, but may I suggest having this general discussion here and any more specific ones at the article? Happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:09, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

User:North8000, thanks! Well, all the edits are backed by important references, and most of them aren't novel, just resurrecting old stuff deleted in a massive edit of 7 August 2024 that (unlike mine) has remained unchallenged so far. At your suggestion, I put it in the article's talk page. Speedboys (talk) 21:35, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

NPPing species

I'm curious how NPP plans to patrol articles on animal species? To meet the proposed guidance of "valid name exists" a species only needs to be published (no restrictions on being academic or peer-reviewed) using the oldest available, non-invalidated name purporting to be that new taxon. This would mean even a single self-published journal article would be sufficient for a species to have a valid name and therefore warrant a standalone article. And since at least some curated databases do not assess scientific merit of species descriptions they will automatically designate such species as having a "valid name" unless and until someone else publishes something calling it into question -- which means we technically could also have a reliable source for this species even if it is not secondary, independent, or significant. JoelleJay (talk) 00:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@JoelleJay: Thanks for the post. Didn't quite understand that last sentence. My first thoughts regarding the other items in your post:

• Several folks who know this area a lot better than me spent a good amount of time developing the proposal. And so sooner or later it needs to go up for an RFC rather than dying under it's own weight like many discussions do. I think that it pretty clear that people would be open to tweaking it/ modifying it. IMO such a two-step process is probably even the best way to move forward. Get something reasonable in place and then have a separate conversation on where it needs changes. Or maybe it will go fine as currently written.
• Regarding "how NPP plans to patrol articles on animal species", I don't think that there is an overall plan. Speaking for myself, I'll need to learn / get fluency on that area to evaluate that sourcing. I'm guessing that once I do, patrolling one of those will be 20 times easier than the kinds of situations that we are already dealing with. Like in gng-dependent sports articles where the standard is technically GNG but in practice it isn't.
• After the (presumed positive) close, if you have an idea on a change to improve it, I'd be happy to work on it with you and support it.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:34, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, the issue as I see it is that the proposal claims that it's impossible to have a valid name without reputable academic sources when this is flatly false for millions of species. Before this proposal, you could dismiss self-published sources via WP:V; but if this passes we now have a guideline explicitly endorsing creation of articles based only on one self-published source. You could argue that WP:V overrides this, but then we're already actively flouting WP:PRIMARY so why should we expect people to observe the one policy but not the other?

The point I was trying to make with the last sentence is that even if someone is trying to avoid self-published sources (even though they would satisfy the guideline), they may assume that the content in a database is RS and secondary when actually it isn't. I showed that mollusks have essentially zero oversight in the mollusk database -- some species get "valid name" status immediately on publication of the primary discovery paper because the author is also a curator for the database, and some species still get this status automatically despite being self-published by someone known to be a taxonomic vandal. We likely have hundreds (maybe thousands? we'd need @BilledMammal to query this) of articles sourced only to this database (or that plus the primary source) that have had no documented secondary evaluation at all and yet would be impossible to delete with this guideline in place. JoelleJay (talk) 22:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@JoelleJay: Starting with the caveat that you have more expertise than me on this.... Let's be pragmatic on this. Positing that it passes, is there a recommended change that you would make? Or let's discuss to potentially develop one. North8000 (talk) 23:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

I detailed some changes that should happen in a reply somewhere in that discussion. JoelleJay (talk) 23:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:25, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Query

Hello, North8000,

I was looking into the situation of a blocked editor after seeing one of their drafts, see User talk:ⵟⵓⵔⴽⵉⵙⵀⴽⴰⴱⵢⵍ and noticed that you posted over 30 messages to their User talk page after they were blocked, encouraging them on their editing. While well-intentioned, this seems excessive to me. I'm not sure if these notifications happen automatically or whether you chose to post 30+ talk page messages but I think you should limit the messages to 2 or 3 per day or it easily could be overwhelming especially when it is the exact same message each time. I can see that perhaps you didn't know that the editor was blocked and couldn't respond but it's still just a helluva a lot of messages to an editor on the same day.

If this is editing behavior that you no longer do, then just ignore this message but I saw this flood of messages (and I've seen it on other user talk pages) and just thought I'd comment. But thanks to you for the encouragement you deliver, I just think you could dial it back a little. I hope you are having a great weekend. Liz 03:08, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Liz: Thanks for the post. I usually like to leave a quick nice note after a NPP review. That was sort of an freak occurrence, (being many reviews of articles by the same person at the same time ). With trying to help on the huge NPP backlog, I usually don't take any extra time to look into the editor or even notice the editor's name. But for the reasons I noted, it's no biggee and easy to do to avoid those unusual occurrences. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:43, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:05, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 20:39, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

COI edit requests

Wondering if you minded creating a shortcut to this for easier reference. I didn't want to do it myself since you spent all the work creating it (which I thank you for by the way). CNMall41 (talk) 19:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

@CNMall41: Thanks. Where would you like me to create the shortcut? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

I can also help make such a shortcut if you let me know what you want it to be called and where you want it to go to and from? Iljhgtn (talk) 15:11, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I think maybe a shortcut from WP:COIER or WP:COIREQUEST to that page would suffice. I found it useful yesterday and plan to use it a bit more so though a shortcut would make it easier. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Both done. Iljhgtn (talk) 19:24, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Perfect. Thank you. --CNMall41 (talk) 20:23, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. Iljhgtn (talk) 21:43, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	You work hard, and do good work. Take an "Original Barnstar" in recognition of such fine work. Iljhgtn (talk) 15:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! North8000 (talk) 17:53, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:08, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 17:57, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 17:58, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:58, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Overdoing it with notifications

Hello, North8000,

Please look at User talk:RandomMe98. You posted over 100 notices on this editor's talk page. It's overwhelming just looking at the page, I can't imagine being the editor. It's fine to send an encouraging note or two but do not plaster editor's user talk page with dozens and dozens of notifications. Liz 05:39, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

That one was an anomaly. I just post something postive when passing a NPP review. Sometimes just a thanks for their work and sometimes with a suggestion for improvement. That one had both types (plus a third type...an AFD notice) and I was trying to help put a dent in the > 13,000 + article backlog by reviewing a whole bunch of similar articles. North8000 (talk) 14:57, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Reviewing a page

Hey North8000, I just created a page on a biotechnologist based in Jamaica couple of days ago (M. H. Ahmad). Could you please have a look and give your remarks. Warm regards. It’d be great if you could review it. Hamza A. Durrani (talk) 14:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Hamza A. Durrani: It's a well written article, particularly/given for one which does not have GNG type sources. The article content does look like routine resume/CV material for an academic. I don't see any sources which would qualify for meeting wp:notability under WP:GNG. I'm guessing that he/the article would meet wp:notability under the Special Notability Guideline for Academics but I don't currently do reviews that require that because I haven't yet acquired the expertise / got fluent with that special guideline. Happy editing!!! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

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NPP

Okay, okay, I get it. The amount of notification bells you're sending me is going to cause me to have an heart attack. I thought I was sent to ANI for some reason (this happened to me before!), pinged several times while I was asleep, then blocked. Jesus christ.... ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 23:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@AlphaBetaGamma: Thanks for your work. Certainly nothing "ANI" related. I did four posts on articles which you created which a copy went to your talk page on. Three were a heads up on three train station articles which are unlikely to meet wp:notability criteria on. The fourth was on a train station article which IMO was an edge case and I marked as reviewed. On all 4 I made the suggestion on a way forward to up-merge or cover them on an article which is on the overall rail line. Either way, happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 02:05, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

(I'm aware WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is a thing) I've been confused on what to do on train station articles which could just be sent to the railway line article and be called a day, because in the end I'd be yelled at when the massive infobox in the "Stations" section that would be placed if I merged everything and converted the train stations articles into redirects surpasses the rest of the article.

The WP:N issue exists with thousands of TRAINSTATION articles, even if you limit the scope to trains in Japan. Of course, some articles have been BLAR'd by some editors, but that's merely a fraction considering some can be improved to prove their point of having an article. (ex. Kominato Station. Of course, not every articles have the history to be expanded up to GA, but older stations and newly built stations are usually easier to cover and cite and expand) Because merging literally every station articles is a move that destroys dozens of potentials of GAs and even FAs, (although, there aren't any FAs in the scope of WPTIJ, you can find plenty of GAs in jawiki related to trains) I've hesitated to do the "just mention it in the railway line article, this doesn't meet GNG!" move that everyone does (and should be doing).

Considering that WP:TIJ is barely managing to do its work with the small fraction of the former members, a major change of mass BLARing articles with insurmountable WP:GNG issues and expanding stubs that can be covered and expanded to the point people won't question their notability anymore is impossible.

ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

@AlphaBetaGamma: Thanks for the post. Well, we both said our things. Rather than discuss those many angles, I'll just limit myself to two notes which might be useful: IMO it's not necessary (or even advisable) to list all of the stations in the info box of an article on the line. IMO it would be best to give each station a small subsection in the body of the article (or a row in a table) which would have the factoids that the text is derived from and the image. The other is that the issue of wp:notability (on these) isn't one of unexpanded articles, it's a matter of having a couple sources which cover the topic of the article in depth. The existence of these determines whether it is build-able into an enclyclopedia article vs where there are just some factoids in sources which the editor expands into sentences. Whether or not that building of the article has already occurred is not the question, except that it can be an indicator of whether or not the GNG sources have been found. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:09, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

"Orphan" page

Dear North8000, thank you very much for your checking Stano Bubán's page. I really appreciate your work...

I would like to consult with you:

Admin Reconrabbit added tags to the page using Page Curation (orphan). Even though I studied the issue of "orphan" pages, I did not understand what I should change or redesign on the Stano Bubán's page to remove this bar. Please, could you advise me, what exactly I should do? After all, the page has links to other internal pages of Misplaced Pages. For example, at the Academy of Fine Arts in Bratislava, Academy of Fine Arts, Prague, Velvet Revolution, Slovak National Gallery, etc. Should I add more links to other pages from Misplaced Pages?

I wish you a nice Christmas time... JoshuaHeri (talk) 10:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Dear North8000, thank you for your help... JoshuaHeri (talk) 13:59, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello @JoshuaHeri:,

Thanks for the post. ((As an aside, Reconrabbit isn't an admin.) If you want to remove the reason for that tag, find an article elsewhere) where it is appropriate to) create an internal link to the Stano Bubán page and create that link. It's not specifically a problem to not have those links so IMO another approach might be to consider it to be providing some info and say "Thanks for the info" and remove the tag. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

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Abishe (talk) 22:23, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 December 2024

• News and notes: Responsibilities and liabilities as a "Very Large Online Platform"

• Op-ed: Beeblebrox on Wikipediocracy, the Committee, and everything

• Opinion: Graham87 on being the first-ever administrator recall subject

• In the media: Delhi High Court considers Caravan and Ken for evaluating the ANI vs. WMF case

• From the archives: Where to draw the line in reporting?

• Recent research: "Misplaced Pages editors are quite prosocial", but those motivated by "social image" may put quantity over quality

• Humour: Backlash over Santa Claus' Misplaced Pages article intensifies

• Gallery: A feast of holidays and carols

• Traffic report: Was a long and dark December

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy holidays!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!

Hello North8000, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. Happy editing, Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 12:24, 25 December 2024 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 12:24, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals) on a "All RFCs" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Administrators' newsletter – January 2025

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2024).

Administrator changes

Sennecaster

• Daniel
• Hog Farm

• BozMo
• Ferret
• John M Wolfson
• MaxSem
• Panyd
• Tide rolls
• Titoxd

CheckUser changes

• Daniel
• Elli
• Liz
• ScottishFinnishRadish
• Theleekycauldron

Worm That Turned

Ferret

Oversight changes

• Daniel
• Elli
• Liz
• ScottishFinnishRadish
• Theleekycauldron

Worm That Turned

Guideline and policy news

• Following an RFC, Misplaced Pages:Notability (species) was adopted as a subject-specific notability guideline.
• A request for comment is open to discuss whether admins should be advised to warn users rather than issue no-warning blocks to those who have posted promotional content outside of article space.

Technical news

• The Nuke feature also now provides links to the userpage of the user whose pages were deleted, and to the pages which were not selected for deletion, after page deletions are queued. This enables easier follow-up admin-actions.

Arbitration

• Following the 2024 Arbitration Committee elections, the following editors have been elected to the Arbitration Committee: CaptainEek, Daniel, Elli, KrakatoaKatie, Liz, Primefac, ScottishFinnishRadish, Theleekycauldron, Worm That Turned.

Miscellaneous

• A New Pages Patrol backlog drive is happening in January 2025 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the new pages feed. Sign up here to participate!

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Hello there, 'tis the season again, believe it or not, the years pass so quickly now! A big thank you for all of your contributions to Misplaced Pages in 2024! Wishing you a Very happy and productive 2025!  ♦ Maliner (talk) 02:27, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Review of Kaal Bhairav Jayanti

Hi North8000. Belated New Year Greetings for 2025. Thanks for reviewing this article. Gardenkur (talk) 12:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

Review of Maha Kumbh 2001 Mela

Hi North8000. Sorry for belated reply and thanks for reviewing this article and sharing your inputs. Will improve in coming days. Gardenkur (talk) 12:44, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

L. David Mech

Hi @North8000, I don't appreciate your wholesale revert of my edits on the L. David Mech page. I spent close to an hour proofreading the edits you made, including fixing bare urls and grammatical errors, and you just undid all of it in one click. This is both rude and inappropriate. If you disagree with specific changes I made, please take it up on the talk page instead. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 00:12, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

@Revirvlkodlaku: You did a massive bundle of controversial deletions of good informative material material and sourcing. Including deletion of a 10 page article by Chicago's largest newspaper and all of the cites to it and material citing it on giving the rationale that it is "sub par" Please take specific specific controversial proposed deletions to talk. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 04:41, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

My further notes are at the article talk page. North8000 (talk) 11:50, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

List of Hsinchu Toplus Lioneers head coaches at AfD

I am seeking an AfD consensus to redirect List of Hsinchu Toplus Lioneers head coaches. Since you have participated in past edits related to this decision, I am notifying you of the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of Hsinchu Toplus Lioneers head coaches. Dclemens1971 (talk) 14:43, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

NPP Awards for 2024

		The New Page Reviewer's Silver Award
		This award is given in recognition to North8000 for conducting 2,800 article reviews in 2024. Thank you so much for all your excellent work. Keep it up! Hey man im josh (talk) 18:05, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

@Hey man im josh: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 02:57, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Tech News: 2025-03

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Weekly highlight

• The Single User Login system is being updated over the next few months. This is the system which allows users to fill out the login form on one Wikimedia site and get logged in on all others at the same time. It needs to be updated because of the ways that browsers are increasingly restricting cross-domain cookies. To accommodate these restrictions, login and account creation pages will move to a central domain, but it will still appear to the user as if they are on the originating wiki. The updated code will be enabled this week for users on test wikis. This change is planned to roll out to all users during February and March. See the SUL3 project page for more details and a timeline.

Updates for editors

• On wikis with PageAssessments installed, you can now filter search results to pages in a given WikiProject by using the inproject: keyword. (These wikis: Arabic Misplaced Pages, English Misplaced Pages, English Wikivoyage, French Misplaced Pages, Hungarian Misplaced Pages, Nepali Misplaced Pages, Turkish Misplaced Pages, Chinese Misplaced Pages)
• One new wiki has been created: a Misplaced Pages in Tigre (w:tig:)
• View all 35 community-submitted tasks that were resolved last week. For example, there was a bug with updating a user's edit-count after making a rollback edit, which is now fixed.

Updates for technical contributors

• Wikimedia REST API users, such as bot operators and tool maintainers, may be affected by ongoing upgrades. Starting the week of January 13, we will begin rerouting some page content endpoints from RESTbase to the newer MediaWiki REST API endpoints for all wiki projects. This change was previously available on testwiki and should not affect existing functionality, but active users of the impacted endpoints may raise issues directly to the MediaWiki Interfaces Team in Phabricator if they arise.
• Toolforge tool maintainers can now share their feedback on Toolforge UI, an initiative to provide a web platform that allows creating and managing Toolforge tools through a graphic interface, in addition to existing command-line workflows. This project aims to streamline active maintainers’ tasks, as well as make registration and deployment processes more accessible for new tool creators. The initiative is still at a very early stage, and the Cloud Services team is in the process of collecting feedback from the Toolforge community to help shape the solution to their needs. Read more and share your thoughts about Toolforge UI.
• For tool and library developers who use the OAuth system: The identity endpoint used for OAuth 1 and OAuth 2 returned a JSON object with an integer in its sub field, which was incorrect (the field must always be a string). This has been fixed; the fix will be deployed to Wikimedia wikis on the week of January 13.
• Many wikis currently use Cite CSS to render custom footnote markers in Parsoid output. Starting January 20 these rules will be disabled, but the developers ask you to not clean up your MediaWiki:Common.css until February 20 to avoid issues during the migration. Your wikis might experience some small changes to footnote markers in Visual Editor and when using experimental Parsoid read mode, but if there are changes these are expected to bring the rendering in line with the legacy parser output.

Meetings and events

• The next meeting in the series of Wikimedia Foundation Community Conversations with the Wikimedia Commons community will take place on January 15 at 8:00 UTC and at 16:00 UTC. The topic of this call is defining the priorities in tool investment for Commons. Contributors from all wikis, especially users who are maintaining tools for Commons, are welcome to attend.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 01:39, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

The Signpost: 15 January 2025

• From the editors: Looking back, looking forward

• Traffic report: The most viewed articles of 2024

• In the media: Will you be targeted?

• Technology report: New Calculator template brings interactivity at last

• Essay: Meet the Canadian who holds the longest editing streak on Misplaced Pages

• Opinion: Reflections one score hence

• News and notes: It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me... and I'm feeling free

• Serendipity: What we've left behind, and where we want to go next

• Op-ed: Elon Musk and the right on Misplaced Pages

• In focus: Twenty years of The Signpost: What did it take?

• Arbitration report: Analyzing commonalities of some contentious topics

• Humour: How to make friends on Misplaced Pages

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:55, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Scott Ritter on a "Politics, government, and law" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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