Talk:Comparison of the AK-47 and M16: Difference between revisions

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			== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
	== Why does the manufacturing section of M16 includes cost of M4 ? ==
			The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
			* ]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion \| 2023-04-08T08:08:08.461298 \| PM md. 63.jpg -->
			Participate in the deletion discussion at the ]. —] (]) 08:08, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

			== Direct Impingement vs Internal Piston ==
	"As of 2012, the United States military buys M4 Carbines for $673 (USD) per unit"

			The article incorrectly refers to the mechanism for the M16 platform as "direct
	PS the reference is no longer accessible.
			impingement" multiple times, but does also call out this general misconception in one section. Is there any opposition to fixing the incorrect terminology? The operating mechanism is more correctly called "internal piston." ] (]) 18:46, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

	] (]) 22:12, 25 ~~April~~ ~~2016~~ (UTC)		:Well if no one has any objections I'm going to start fixing the incorrect descriptions. ] (]) 04:48, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

			== Citation Convention Question, Can't Find Answer ==
	The M4 is the current issue M16 version. Also, I have updated the info and reference. The current cost is $647 per unit.--] (]) 23:24, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

			I just removed a repetitive citation from a bullet point list, since it's all the same source and left the one at the end of the sentence introducing the bullet points. This seems a lot cleaner, but I can't find a wiki style guide saying how to deal with violet point citations. Anyone know what the convention is? ] (]) 22:36, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
	== AVS-36 with over the barrel gas system predates StG-44 so how can the StG-44 have "introduced" the over the barrel gas system? ==

			== STG seems to be given way too much importance in this article ==
	"The Russians had a Simonov in 1936 called the AVS-36 which was both semiautomatic and full automatic. It was gas operated, with the piston and gas cylinder on top of the barrel."<ref>{{cite book\|last1=Hatcher\|first1=Julian\|title=Hatcher's Notebook}}</ref>] (]) 01:24, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

			The AK was developed as an SMG and so the STG had relatively minor influence on it, especially given their wildly different mechanics and the M-16 was introduced in the 60's after pretty much everyone else had come up with an assault rifle, so it was a couple of generations removed from the STG being the shiniest AR on the block. Given that the STG wasn't nearly as influential on the AKM or the M16 as it was on say the G3, I really struggle to see why half the article comparing the two is about it. ] (]) 11:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
	Wrong again...please read the sentence before deleting referenced information.

	"Unlike previous rifle designs, it introduced an over-the-barrel gas system, straight stock and pistol grip to reduce recoil and improve handling characteristics"

	The AVS-36 may have an over-the-barrel gas system, but it does not have straight stock and a pistol grip. The STG-44 was the first to combine this three things.--] (]) 21:07, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

	== Pistol grips on rifles date back to 1840 at least ==

	Pistol grips on rifles date back to 1840 at least, so how could the stg-44 have introduced them? Not to mention that it wasn't the first to share any particular set of features either, particularly in light of it's own history not as some sort of fresh, new design, but, rather, as the culmination of a design competition of several different rifles all with the same features, all derivative of, among other things, earlier german machine carbines.] (]) 21:08, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

	== Again, looking at the source, it just talks about the stock and over the barrel gas system and is that wrong? ==

	The AVS-36 seems to share those characteristics and it predates the stg-44, again.] (]) 22:56, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

	== External links modified ==

	Hello fellow Wikipedians,

	I have just modified {{plural:19\|one external link\|19 external links}} on ]. Please take a moment to review . If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit ] for additional information. I made the following changes:
	*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120616193104/http://www.oneworld-publications.com/pdfs/Small%20Arms%20Trade_ch1_22%20Nov.pdf to http://www.oneworld-publications.com/pdfs/Small%20Arms%20Trade_ch1_22%20Nov.pdf
	*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150622011454/http://www.almc.army.mil:80/alog/issues/NovDec03/Logistics_of_Invasion.htm to http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/issues/NovDec03/Logistics_of_Invasion.htm
	*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151107045353/http://independencearmory.com/downloads/M14_Articles/American%20Rifleman%20-%20New%20Service%20Rifle_%20Amer.%20Rifleman%20June,%201957.pdf to http://independencearmory.com/downloads/M14_Articles/American%20Rifleman%20-%20New%20Service%20Rifle_%20Amer.%20Rifleman%20June,%201957.pdf
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	*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp
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	*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111107225550/http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/AK47USArmyOperatorManual.pdf to http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/AK47USArmyOperatorManual.pdf
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	*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120517092821/http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes%5CTech%20Note%2054,%20Gas%20vs%20Op%20Rod%20Drive,%20020815.pdf to http://www.armalite.com/images/Tech%20Notes%5CTech%20Note%2054,%20Gas%20vs%20Op%20Rod%20Drive,%20020815.pdf
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	Cheers.—] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(])</span> 04:29, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

	== Topic: includes AR-15 rifles and M4s? ==

	*''The M16's aluminum lower receivers may be ] or ].<ref>. Olyarms.com. Retrieved on 2011-09-27.</ref> Their receivers may also be made from titanium and a variety of other metallic alloys,<ref>. Olyarms.com. Retrieved on 2011-11-19.</ref><ref>http://amalgamatedti.com/lower.pdf Amalgamated Titanium AR-15 lower receiver</ref><ref>http://amalgamatedti.com/upper.pdf Amalgamated Titanium AR-15 upper receiver</ref> composites<ref>. Bushmaster. Retrieved on 2011-11-19.</ref> or polymers.<ref>. Cavalry Manufacturing. Retrieved on 2011-09-27.</ref> If necessary, the M16 can be machined from a billet of steel<ref>{{citation \|url=http://www.dpmsinc.com/Frequently-Asked_ep_55-1.html \|publisher= DPMS Panther Arms \|title=Frequently Asked Questions #23. What types of lower receivers does DPMS offer for the AR15?}}</ref> and fitted with wooden furniture.<ref>http://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2016/02/03/pictures-great-looking-wooden-furniture-ars/ 12 Pictures of Gorgeous Looking Wooden Furniture for ARs. BY: Daniel Xu, 2/3/16</ref> The M16's aluminum lower receiver may even be ], allowing "people with no gunsmith training to assemble a working assault rifle at home".<ref>http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/191388-1200-the-price-of-legally-3d-printing-your-own-metal-ar-15-rifle-at-home Extreme Tech. $1200: The price of (legally) 3D printing your own metal AR-15 rifle at home. By Ryan Whitwam on October 2, 2014</ref><ref>http://www.computerworld.com/article/2689843/3d-vendor-sells-1500-part-to-make-metal-guns.html Computerworld. 3D vendor sells $1,500 machine to make metal guns. By Lucas Mearian Oct 1, 2014</ref> The M16's internal components such as the bolt carrier group and charging handle may also be made of titanium.<ref>http://amalgamatedti.com/bcg.pdf Amalgamated Titanium AR-15 Bolt Carrier Group</ref><ref>http://amalgamatedti.com/charger.pdf Amalgamated Titanium AR-15 Charging Handle</ref> This makes the M16 ideal for ], spread among many small manufacturers around the country, using a variety of materials and manufacturing methods; this ensures it would be nearly impossible to disrupt U.S. M16 production in the case of a major conflict.''
	<small>{{reflist}}</small>
	Virtually every source in this paragraph concerns civilian AR-15s, not military M16 rifles. (The last sentences looks like it might be original research).

	*''As of 2015, the United States military buys M4 Carbines for $647 (USD) per unit.<ref>http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/Documents/defbudget/fy2016/FY16_ITEF_J_Book.pdf OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE BUDGET FISCAL YEAR (FY) 2016. March 2015. FY 2016 Overseas Contingency Operations (OCO) Iraq Train and Equip Fund (ITEF)</ref>
	<small>{{reflist}}</small>
	This sentence refers to the price of M4 carbines, not M16 rifles. So the question is, does the scope of this article cover the entire AR-15 family versus the entire AK47 family? If so, that should be explained in the introduction. Also, when a source talks about an AR-15 we shouldn't change that to M16, we should say, for example "The AR-15's aluminum lower receivers may be ] or ]", or "Aluminum M16-style lower receivers may be..." since that's what the sources says. ] (]) 20:32, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

	:Perhaps the best way of defining the scope of this article would be to limit it to those specific derivatives of the AK and AR types that have been adopted as service rifles by the USSR/Russia or the U.S. That would include the AK-74, AK-105, etc, and the HK416, but exclude civilian AR-15 models. ] (]) 01:25, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

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Direct Impingement vs Internal Piston

The article incorrectly refers to the mechanism for the M16 platform as "direct impingement" multiple times, but does also call out this general misconception in one section. Is there any opposition to fixing the incorrect terminology? The operating mechanism is more correctly called "internal piston." Jasavina (talk) 18:46, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Well if no one has any objections I'm going to start fixing the incorrect descriptions. Jasavina (talk) 04:48, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Citation Convention Question, Can't Find Answer

I just removed a repetitive citation from a bullet point list, since it's all the same source and left the one at the end of the sentence introducing the bullet points. This seems a lot cleaner, but I can't find a wiki style guide saying how to deal with violet point citations. Anyone know what the convention is? Jasavina (talk) 22:36, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

STG seems to be given way too much importance in this article

The AK was developed as an SMG and so the STG had relatively minor influence on it, especially given their wildly different mechanics and the M-16 was introduced in the 60's after pretty much everyone else had come up with an assault rifle, so it was a couple of generations removed from the STG being the shiniest AR on the block. Given that the STG wasn't nearly as influential on the AKM or the M16 as it was on say the G3, I really struggle to see why half the article comparing the two is about it. HamNCheeseSandwich (talk) 11:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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