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Misleading title

"Scientific racism" implies that there is scientific evidence that some races are superior to others. There is not. I recommend a change from "scientific racism" to "pseudoscientific racism" or even "biological racism." Thank you. 71.221.194.121 (talk) 00:35, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

For better or worse, that is its common name in reliable sources (which do not give it any credence as science). Misplaced Pages doesn't invent new terminology. See WP:COMMONNAME.Acroterion (talk) 00:43, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

"Biological racism" sounds worse than the current title. For good or bad, racist differentiations were within the realm of acceptable scientific views during the 19th century through at least the 1920s (the publication of the infamous Robert Yerkes WW1 U.S. Army test results), though there were also dissenters (Franz Boas etc). Rejected scientific theories are not necessarily the same as pseudo-science; our article on phlogiston theory calls it a "superseded scientific theory"... AnonMoos (talk) 23:30, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Following your excellent example of phlogiston theory, why not "Scientific racism theories"? As the scientific racist theories were naive scientific theories based on assumptions and unsound reasoning, superseded by scientific developments (in this case the application of rigourous statistical reasoning and current genetic theory).

The difference with the phlogiston example is that historical and modern scientific racist theories have subsequently been supported by naive or mendacious pseudo-scientists (and more widely by non-scientists). I think that difference is adequately covered in the article by the paragraph (and main articles) about The Bell Curve etc...

Another problem is that not all the historical views described in the article were held by their proponents (even at the time) as scientific theories, but were more political, religious, philosophical, psychological, sociological, or historical interpretations. While most do indeed claim a scientific method, a few are simply racist theories making no appeal to science; their appearing under the banner of "scientific racism" is sloppy, and biased science bashing. For some other historical views it is a bit of a stretch, even if we allow for some overlap between science and the more rational parts of philosophy, sociology, psychology, and what is called "political science". Given the generality of the theories presented in the article then perhaps "Racist theories" or "Racial theories" might be a better title? And perhaps a clearer delineation should be made between those that claimed a scientific method and those that didn't. CorsacFoxWiki (talk) 12:44, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

John Hunter

Please check this carefully. The indicated source may not be a publication of the surgeon of that name, but of a namesake. Stilfehler (talk) 22:26, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up. After checking the source, it does seem to be the same individual. But Hunter's hypotheses about skin color don't seem to fit the definition of scientific racism, so I've WP:BOLDly removed the short section. Generalrelative (talk) 00:25, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Limited coverage of monogenism and bias

The article provides very little coverage of monogenism, as exemplified by scientists like Thomas Henry Huxley. Most of the information focuses on polygenism, much of which was not considered scientific even at the time. For instance, On the Geographical Distribution of the Chief Modifications of Mankind (1870) was a significant monogenetic work. Another issue with the article is its absolutist stance that anyone supporting "scientific racism" also advocated racial supremacism, which is not accurate. Huxley, for example, rejected race-based slavery in Emancipation – Black and White (1865).

In addition, it should be more clearly defined when this concept can be described as a superseded scientific theory (19th/20th century and earlier) and when it must be categorized as pseudoscience (21st century). For example, I find this phrasing better: "Scientific racism is a superseded scientific theory now regarded as pseudoscience." In today's "racial realism" there is an intentional rejection of scientific standards, whereas in the past this was not the case—because such standards did not exist. Pantarch (talk) 15:10, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

History of the term "scientific racism"

I added this section for clarification because many readers seem to have difficulties to understand that the term "scientific" can not only be used in the sense of "using the organized methods of science" but also in the sense of "relating to science". Stilfehler (talk) 19:14, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

@Stilfehler: Hello.

This appears to be regarding these edits.

Do you have sources directly supporting this? Right now it looks like original research / WP:SYNTH.

For example: there are a lot of problems with citing a Mankind Quarterly article. This is especially apparent when that article is from 1961 for a claim that a trend has continued past 1961. To put it another way, two sources, one from 1961 and another from 1975, are not enough to say something has become 'less and less common' in 2025.

If you want to explain the history of the term, please instead cite sources about the history of the term instead of primary examples of the term's usage. Using primary sources in this way is a form of original research.

I would also suggest avoiding unreliable sources like Mankind completely. Any use of such a source would have to be contextualized by a much better source, in which case, just use that better source and skip the fringe journal. Grayfell (talk) 21:02, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Pending a response and explanation, I have reverted these changes. Grayfell (talk) 23:37, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, this may be original research, so I understand and don't mind the revert. Still, I believe such a section (with better references) would be helpful. There is so much opposition to the term out there. See for example here or see the German WP, where – for that very reason – there is not even an article about that subject. I can't imagine it being difficult to make the lemma "scientific racism" watertight through referencing to reputable sources in which the term is being used. Thanks, Stilfehler (talk) 01:06, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

Such a section could be helpful, but as I said, start from sources about the term "scientific racism". It isn't sufficient to cite sources which merely use the term. Even for basic etymology, we should not publish original research like this. We need sources which discuss the term as a term, or at least mention it as a term. There is a lot of research on this topic, spanning decades, so if specific sources can be found I would be very interested in seeing what they have to say.

The meaning of the term itself does come up somewhat often on English Misplaced Pages. Sometimes editors wish to split it into two and treat "scientific" and "racism" as entirely separate, but this is too simplistic to be workable. Some have argued that it should labeled as "pseudoscientific racism" instead. That seems more reasonable, but if 'pseudoscientific racism' exists, does that imply that 'scientific racism' also exists and is not pseudoscientific? No, that's not what sources appear to be saying when they use the term. Clearly, we need reliable sources to handle this for us. Grayfell (talk) 03:16, 14 January 2025 (UTC)

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