Talk:Proud Boys: Difference between revisions

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	\| {{cite book \|last1=Park \|first1=Meadhbh \|editor1-last=Carian \|editor1-first=Emily K. \|editor2-last=DiBranco \|editor2-first=Alex \|editor3-last=Ebin \|editor3-first=Chelsea \|title=Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right \|date=2022 \|publisher=Routledge \|location=Abingdon, England \|isbn=978-1-0005-7622-1 \|doi=10.4324/9781003164722 \|chapter=Fight Club: Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys, and Male Supremacism}}		\| {{cite book \|last1=Park \|first1=Meadhbh \|editor1-last=Carian \|editor1-first=Emily K. \|editor2-last=DiBranco \|editor2-first=Alex \|editor3-last=Ebin \|editor3-first=Chelsea \|title=Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right \|date=2022 \|publisher=Routledge \|location=Abingdon, England \|isbn=978-1-0005-7622-1 \|doi=10.4324/9781003164722 \|chapter=Fight Club: Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys, and Male Supremacism}}
	}}		}}

	== Ideology ==

	{{edit semi-protected\|Proud Boys\|answered=yes}}
	So i looked through the PDF linked in Reference No. 1. The word "Chauvinism" are mentioned two times, "Authoritarianism" are mentioned one time, "islamophobia" are mentioned 0 times and none of those are in relation to the subject of the article.

	Does the reference really support the statements or am i missing something?

	Overall it might be a good idea to diversify the references for the ideology section of the infobox ] (]) 18:43, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
	:] '''Not done:''' According to the page's protection level you should be able to ]. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details.<!-- Template:ESp --> ]] 🍁 19:44, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
	::Trying to get some consensus here {{ping\|Callmemirela}}--] (]) 21:02, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
	:::Then the edit request template is inappropriate to establish consensus. ]] 🍁 21:17, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
	::::I'll make the change myself if i dont get any responses within a week ] (]) 21:59, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
	:::::@] @] ] is not an ideology, but a political system; it should be removed.
	:::::Anti-immigration, anti-feminism and anti-LGBT rights can be summarized with the term ].
	:::::What do you think of the following ideologies (as internal factions)?
	:::::*]
	:::::"The Proud Boys have increasingly embraced Pinochet as a sort of mascot. “Helicopter ride” memes and the phrase “Make Rotary Aircraft Great Again” – references to the dictator’s practice of dropping political enemies from helicopters – are common on Proud Boys’ social media posts. At one point, the group also sold merchandise and gear featuring a crest associated with Pinochet."
	:::::https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys
	:::::*]
	:::::"but welcome non-white members as long as these members acknowledge that Western civilization is superior to all others"
	:::::https://www.populismstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ECPS-Organisation-Profile-Series-1.pdf
	:::::*]
	:::::"Despite purporting to oppose government tyranny, the Proud Boys’ values exemplify the slippage between right-libertarianism and fascism (Vitolo-Haddad, 2019), working toward what Michael Orth (1990) described as a “libertarian Utopia which combines violence, repression of women, and a dictatorial state into an all-American Utopia which emits strong fascist resonances.” Similarly, political scientist Adolph Reed, Jr. (2013) argues that this contradiction is inevitable in right-wing libertarianism, and the Proud Boys adopt a libertarian “aesthetic” of freedom to promote a politics that is often authoritarian"
	:::::https://www.populismstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ECPS-Organisation-Profile-Series-1.pdf ] (]) 13:30, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
	::::::Sounds excellent to me ] (]) 14:54, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

	== Participation in the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (2017) ==

	The episode should be added to the proud boys history section.

	References:

	"In March 2017, a Proud Boys member named Brandon Vaughan of the Ottawa, Canada, chapter assaulted a Palestinian-American community college professor. Videos of the assault show Proud Boys members fighting alongside the Jewish Defense League, a right-wing militant organization."
	https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/proud-boys

	"Vaughan is a prominent member of the Ottawa Proud Boys, a right-wing group that describes itself as “Western chauvinists.” He is also a regular at far right protests in Ottawa, Toronto and elsewhere in Canada."
	https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/warrant-issued-after-ottawa-man-skips-u-s-arraignment-on-assault-hate-crime-charges
	https://canoe.com/news/local-news/warrant-issued-after-ottawa-man-skips-u-s-arraignment-on-assault-hate-crime-charges/wcm/5b97e2c2-4875-47c4-a5e9-730ae5a8e916 ] (]) 13:47, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

	== Symbolism ==

	I propose to add the following:

	RWDS - Right Wing Death Squad
	https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/05/09/what-to-know-about-right-wing-death-squad-phrase-linked-to-texas-shooter-proud-boys/

	Hoppean snake
	https://theintercept.com/2021/02/04/pinochet-far-right-hoppean-snake/

	If you know of anything else please say. ] (]) 13:54, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

	:p.s. POYB - Proud Of Your Boy
	:https://extremismterms.adl.org/glossary/proud-your-boy-poyb ] (]) 17:02, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

	== Issues (June, 2023) ==

	The neo-fascism template is "open" and takes up much of the page. In the other Misplaced Pages articles it is "closed" (see show/hide).

	There is also a neo-Nazi template that I am not quite sure what it is for. The group is not listed in that template. Also, why in the major action (in the militant organization template) is there not ] instead of "terrorism" which is much more vague?

	The organization, formerly registered as , is now decentralized; the groups are semi-autonomous:

	"The Proud Boys is a decentralized organization with semi-autonomous chapters in several U.S. states."

	https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/proud-boys

	From the way it is written on the ADL website, the organization appears to be international:

	"Proud Boys have international chapters in Canada, Britain, Ireland, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Australia and the Philippines."

	https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/proud-boys-0

	]'s expulsion is missing.

	https://www.insider.com/ousted-proud-boys-underling-attempts-white-supremacist-coup-2020-11

	] candidates and Proud Boys members:

	Alex Furman

	https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/he-was-a-drug-smuggler-now-hes-a-proud-boy-and-running-against-cori-bush-34136115

	Augustus Sol Invictus before being expelled from the Proud Boys

	https://reason.com/2016/11/07/florida-senate-candidate-struggles-bears/

	While affiliation with the ] is present, affiliations with the Libertarian Party have been omitted. In my opinion they are to be incorporated into the article.

	] (]) 16:56, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

	== Inconsistent label ==

	The article on ] states, "However, he and his government are generally excluded from academic typologies of fascism." (see https://en.wikipedia.org/Augusto_Pinochet#Accusations_of_fascism); the sources would all seem to be reliable.

	The argument made by Samantha Kutner starts with the premise that Pinochet is fascist, ergo the Proud Boys who glorify him are fascists. (see pp. 10-11)

	It is not objective to write Proud Boys is a fascist organization (with this argument) and such a position falls under ] and ].

	It should then be pointed out that not all sources describe Proud Boys simply as a neo-fascist group, but with other ideologies so quoting only one label at the beginning of the article is POV-pushing. N.B. Both CTC Sentinel and ICC are based on Kutner's position.

	Additionally, it would be better to write: ''is considered neo-fascist by some scholars for supporting Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet''. Instead of trying to make the article incomprehensible to a general audience as it is done now. ] (]) 16:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

	== Ideology ==

	The article should have a section about "ideology" and specific positions. ] (]) 11:20, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

	:There is a sub-section called "Membership and doctrine", which still omits many positions and enhances the analysis of a small number of scholars. ] (]) 12:09, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

	== Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2023 ==		== Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2023 ==

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Park, Meadhbh (2022). "Fight Club: Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys, and Male Supremacism". In Carian, Emily K.; DiBranco, Alex; Ebin, Chelsea (eds.). Male Supremacism in the United States: From Patriarchal Traditionalism to Misogynist Incels and the Alt-Right. Abingdon, England: Routledge. doi:10.4324/9781003164722. ISBN 978-1-0005-7622-1.

Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2023

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Considering that: academic sources use "crypto-fascist" and "proto-fascist"; that the Proud Boys are not inspired by a classical fascist regime, but by Pinochet's Chile (which is not described as neo-fascist by most scholars, but is described as semi-fascist and/or neoliberal (see Pinochetism)). I suggest changing "neo-fascist" (X) to "crypto-fascist/protofascist" (Y). Alternatively, I suggest adding more context. 93.45.229.98 (talk) 08:00, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. M.Bitton (talk) 14:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

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