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Revision as of 14:47, 4 January 2010

Welcome to Jehochman's Talk Page Please feel free to put your feet on the coffee table, and speak candidly. Or for more better relaxation, stretch yourself luxuriously on the chaise longue in Bishzilla's Victorian parlour and mumble incoherently.

The improper actions of an ex-admin (who hates humour)

See topic at bottom of this revision (it's your talk page, but no need to leave big text here).

Question: What is right forum/process to restrain such an editor from damaging the conversation environment by acting as anti-humour patroller? Proofreader77 (talk) 09:15, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Set aside (subsume)

Bigger fish to fry. :-) Proofreader77 (talk) 20:39, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

• Follow-up: Catch and release. (Now as to the previous question, perhaps next year.) Proofreader77 08:29, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Spellcraft?

In case you were wondering what the hell I was talking about: .  :-) — Coren  14:20, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I watched that movie at Halloween with my kids. :D Jehochman 14:22, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

And what about this movie? Here's a trailer. Have you watched it yet? Whatever that button is that the man with the cat pressed, I hope that the admins will never get it added to their tool kit. David Tombe (talk) 14:40, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

No. No. No. Wrong movie. My relationship with ArbCom is like this one: Jehochman 15:07, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

There's pie (as above) ... and there's prophecy ;-) Waywardly breaching the edge of infinity Proofreader77 (talk) 01:55, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Ncmvocalist again

At Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Proposed siteban for Logicus (talk · contribs), Ncmvocalist announced:

It's been about 48 hours since this discussion started, so time has been given for everyone to respond from different timezones. It also is unambiguously going in one direction. I'm thinking of closing this in a little under 24 hours...unless there is some material objection? Ncmvocalist (talk) 18:33, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Is it appropriate, or permissible, for Ncmvocalist to close a topic on the Administrators' noticeboard?—Finell 03:57, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. Somebody else can reopen it, or change the close if they think he did it wrong. Jehochman 11:53, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

The question I was trying to ask: Is it appropriate, or permissible, for someone who is not an administrator to close a discussion on the Administrators' noticeboard? (Belated) Merry Christmas and (very slightly premature) Happy New Year!—Finell 18:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I think the community would agree it's a problem. I personally believe that anybody can do any task if they do it correctly. Ncmvocalist was previously asked not to act as unofficial arbitration clerk on arbitration pages. There may be a touch of not getting it. You could start a discussion if you think the close was improper. Jehochman 19:45, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again. He didn't close it, he merely proposed to do so "unless there is some material objection". An administrator closed it after Ncmvocalist and I had a spat over the issue.—Finell 19:54, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for useful things

Drama-box (excellent! and multi-purpose^;^) + signature trick. "Make my day" (Indeed. lol) Proofreader77 22:53, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

• "Erstwhile" is, for some reason, not a word in my active vocabulary ... but I see it appears useful. (Perhaps the problem is that it's a word you wouldn't expect the audience to know what you meant if you said it as a guest on Letterman. I will ponder it further... while eating some pie. :-) Proofreader77 08:21, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
  • Esoteric words require the reader to think or use a dictionary. This helps prevent hasty or insipid replies. Jehochman 08:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
    • "Insipid" is not ... :-) Most excellent hangout, you have here, Jehochman. Wonderfully interesting December. Next year is going to be ... amazing. One thing's for sure — my user and talk pages are set ... for the decade. lol Cheers. Proofreader77 08:36, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Greetings

Thanks for all your help in 2009. Wishing you a very Happy and Prosperous New Year 2010. :Radiantenergy (talk) 22:02, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed topic ban for PCHS-NJROTC

I'm tired of reverting and arguing about premature closure of threads that I start in an attempt to get consensus on a topic ban for PCHS-NJROTC. The thread has been rolled up again with the only actual !vote being mine. You and DGG seem to have at least understood the basis for my concern - can I ask you to see this through to a conclusion? I don't much care what that conclusion is at this point, so long as people seem to have actually considered the evidence. Be aware that the reason I included the "compromised" account episode was to illustrate that PCHS-NJROTC has previously lied to admins on ANI, and therefore you should be wary of any promises they make. Thanks (and I will understand if you simply want to let the matter drop). Delicious carbuncle (talk) 02:05, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I would like to know why you found it necessary to unarchive something another admin, Tedder, had already archived. I don't think telling PCHS-NJROTC stuff we already know (mark vandalism, go to the admin for problems, etc.) is going to make this go away any quicker. What you are doing is feeding the troll that is DC. PCHS-NJROTC has already said it was a mistake, several admins, several users and hell, even ChildofMidnight has told DC to let it go and archived the damned threads...yet you seem to think re-re-re-re-rehashing the same tired, played out thread with "evidence" people have read and all said shows NOTHING is going to do something. You are an admin, stop wheel warring, stop edit warring and let the damned thing die and stop feeding the trolls. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 03:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I unarchived it because I wanted to comment. DC is entitled to get their concerns addressed on the merits. The thread was badly disrupted, and their concerns were never addressed. Jehochman 03:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

But when admin after admin and user after user have said in 5 (!) different threads on ANI and AN that they have read the "evidence" and it isn't going anywhere, for DC to read WP:STICK and WP:AGF and let it die and he just laughs and does it again, that is solving something? When does it merge into disruption, harrassment, edit warring and trying the community's patience? It needs to stop. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 03:29, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

That's a potentially good explanation. DC says that prior threads were forcibly archived without a proper conclusion. The other editor sort of went overboard on the current thread, which lead me to thinking that maybe DC had a valid point somewhat. I'm not familiar with prior threads. Had somebody calmly posted an explanation with links to those threads and citing WP:STICK, I'd have looked at the prior threads and might have agreed. But that didn't happen. No links were given, so all I saw was a complaint and a respondent making a poor response. My suggested resolution is quite mellow and practical. I hope it helps. Jehochman 03:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, I have never been one to look for links, that is kinda my bad suit. I will look in ANI's archives, gimme a couple on that one. But why I am involved is I seen a user getting the short end of the stick. Once at ANI, couldn't be helped. Twice, seemed much. Thrice, that is when I said "OK, this needs to stop". Even though he went after my friend Allstarecho, I actually have nothing against DC. He just needs to learn to stop when asked. That is all I am asking, for him to just let poor PCHS-NJROTC have some peace. I personally don't blame PCHS-NJROTC for losing his temper. I would, and have, too. I will look for those links. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 03:37, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I can sympathize with somebody not wanting to get reported over and over and over again for the same thing with assumptions of bad faith and character aspersions piled on top. Something like that happened to me last year. :0 I promised PCHS-NJROTC that I'd make sure they weren't railroaded, and I will keep my word. Jehochman 03:43, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• (undent) OK, link time...actually it was three threads, not five...just felt like more threads, I guess, my goof. OK...First thread, second, third (today's). I don't think I missed any, but I am going to check just to make sure. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 03:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• Those first two threads weren't handled very well by uninvolved admins. The greatest amount of clue came from User:DGG. Otherwise the threads were pretty much overwhelmed by the respondent's comments, and there were very few clueful, uninvolved remarks. If there's a problem with recurring sock vandalism, all PCHS-NJROTC needs to do is report it to me, and I will do my damnedest to stop it. Jehochman 03:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

• I think both of those threads were archived multiple times before they were finally archived by the bot. It just seems alot of the admins and users just wanted it to go away and PCHS-NJROTC was willing (and has) to disengage from DC. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 04:11, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

RE: Final Warning

I would rather that come from the community and not one admin who is clearly involved in this situation. Have another admin, uninvolved, bring it up with me. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 03:24, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I am totally uninvolved. Seeking to stop disruption does not make one involved. Please listen to my warning because you're skating on thin, thin ice. Jehochman 03:25, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Don't threaten. You became involved when you posted to the thread. If you want the matter taken up, do an RFC, otherwise an involved admin threatening a user looks very bad and you have a record my friend, just like me. You have thin ice in your pond as well. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 03:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Pfft. Links work better than mud. I'm quite careful and have repeatedly been subject to close scrutiny. Jehochman 03:34, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I was about to strike that. That wasn't right for me to bring up. That was bad form. I apologize. We should leave the past in the past. - NeutralHomer • Talk • 03:37, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

No worries. Somehow I have fond memories of your editing, even though I did once indef you for socking. If I remember correctly, I was pretty sad to do that. I'm trying to mediate the current dispute and get the two editors to go off in different directions. Jehochman 03:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that was me being stupid. I have redeemed myself pretty well and worked alot on the same radio pages I did before and have tried to branch out and work on helping others in need. My best work so far is getting a teenager in Ireland some help. I worked with several admins here in the US, UK and Ireland to get checkuser information, a call into the police and then waiting for that call back. We got to the kid just in time. So that is my best work yet, but that one was definitely a collabrative effort across two continents and three countries :) - NeutralHomer • Talk • 03:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Clearing up some misunderstandings

Okay, firstly, this has nothing to do with DC or the ongoing drama; this is just to clear up some possible misunderstandings. Some seem to believe that I'm going around calling the FBI or law enforcement every two seconds, or acting in some other bizarre way. In reality, I've probably only contacted law enforcement in two situations related to Misplaced Pages. I have never contacted law enforcement about simple "school girl vandalism," only when there's been real life threats (i.e. repeated threats to murder celebrities).

I do sometimes file abuse reports. When I do, I do it in a quite professional manner; I do not yell at ISPs, argue with them, cuss at them, demand that they take a particular action, threaten to sue, or act in any other juvanile way, nor do I represent myself as an official representative of the foundation. Most of the time, reports probably result in warnings being issued if the vandals don't already have strikes against them for other issues.

I have nothing against "cheerleaders." I'm friends with almost every cheerleader at my own school. Heck, I even know two from another school. If they're nice to me, I'm nice to them, in real life or online. I do have a problem with "snobs" and people that think they're better than everyone else, which is why I had such an issue with "cheerleader vandals" is because I assumed that they're not the nice ones, but that's mostly irrelevant because a vandal is a vandal and a troll is a troll, WP:RBI and WP:DENY apply. Sorry for judging the vandals?

I do not "lie" to admins to get out of trouble. A lot of people dislike Obama in my geographic location, and for what it's worth, I did used to monkey somewhat in WP:SAND, but within reason. I was blocked for a compromised account because the editors at AN/I knew it is not like me to carry on like that, not because I told them as such. I was editing from home while someone at the hospital was playing around, possibly without even knowing they were doing it as me because I goofed and forgot to close out of the internet browser. That particular terminal has been known for abuse issues at that time of the night. I'll be the first to tell you I sure as heck wouldn't be on there at that time of the night.

My contributions do not consist mostly of troll related drama. I brought Port Charlotte High School to a GA from a stub, uploaded numerous pictures for use in various articles, made some disambiguation pages and redirects, and created more than a few articles. I have real life issues that must come first right now, but I'm going to create an article about FraudWatch International in the near future. I created the shared IP template specific to businesses, as well as some other templates. I've created barnstars, including the purple heart and my own anti-vandalism barnstar; it was quite a while ago and I believe there were others. I've improved various articles, including the correction of an inaccuracy at Plastic recycling (that's just the first that comes to mind, there's been many many many more).

Yes, I do right excessively long messages. I'm quite verbose at times, especially when I'm in the middle of a heated debate. Hopefully adding breaks between points has made it easier for you. I'm also bad about not providing diffs because it often takes several minutes per diff to find what I'm looking for. Have a Happy New Year, and thank you for your help in our search for a peaceful resolution. PCHS-NJROTC 04:53, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. It's great that you have so much energy. If you need help, just ask. Jehochman 04:56, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I really hate to have to do this, especially on the talk page of someone who is trying to help -- and also because it is really rather tedious -- but I have to address the "compromised" account issue.

• Two accounts were suspected of being compromised (based on offensive edits made in the sandbox) and were blocked
• User:Deamon138 confirmed that their account was not compromised and they were responsible for the edits
• A checkuser confirmed that User:PCHS-NJROTC's account was editing "from the same IP that GO- has been using, and there's nothing to indicate it's from a different computer"
• the edits made by PCHS-NJROTC came immediately after a string of normal edits (within a minute)
• PCHS-NJROTC had made similar strings of edits in the sandbox on at least two prior occasions including here where they labelled Barack Obama as a racist, and here where they use similarly insulting terms toward a variety of US political figures
• Deamon138 and PCHS-NJROTC had previously interacted on Misplaced Pages and were friendly
• PCHS-NJROTC's account at one point in the sandbox edits stated: "As crazy as it sounds, your not supposed to conduct edit wars with rollback, even in the sandbox. I know this 'cause I almost got nailed for it when I first got it." (PCHS-NJROTC had received rollback rights about a month earlier)

So, the edits came from PCHS-NJROTC's usual IP, the edits use the language (including grammar errors) similar to PCHS-NJROTC, PCHS-NJROTC had a history of making juvenile political comments in the sandbox, and knew Deamon138. The idea proffered by PCHS-NJROTC at ANI (a hacker spoofed their IP) is plainly ridiculous. I think it's clear that PCHS-NJROTC was responsible for those edits and lied about it to avoid the consequences, which appears to be a pattern. This is one of the reasons I am asking for a formal topic ban, because I quite simply do not believe that their word has any value and I would like to avoid revisiting this in the future under less-than-clear terms (for obvious reasons). Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:11, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

This isn't a debate. Jehochman probably doesn't really care. I have a right to explain myself, and I don't need you or anybody else putting in your two cents.

DC, I'm trying to disengage here, but you have no right to do what you're doing considering there's many issues in your user contributions that lead me to believe that you're not mature enough to handle anti-vandalism (i.e. biting newbies, personal attacks in edit summaries, creating pages under a new name to avoid consensus, completely ignoring general consensus, edit warring, and just out right being immature), but I let it slide for the most part for the sake of not creating extra drama. Throughout this mess, I've not really wanted to see you blocked or anything, but at this point, I seriously do hope someone goes into your history and hammers you for your immaturity (some of which was a lot more recent than any of mine) and for being a hypocrite. PCHS-NJROTC 14:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Notification.

I'm just tidying up some loose ends and not trying to be pointy here, but please be aware that this means that you are no longer an uninvolved admin with respect to myself and any use of your administrative tools against me would likely be considered an abuse thereof. If you ever have occasion to believe that administrative actions against me are required please seek out an uninvolved administrator to perform them. Have a nice day. --GoRight (talk) 05:30, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

See also discussion at Lar's talk page. Jehochman 13:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)