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Re: Coat of arms

What other cultures have coats of arms that do not include shields? It is a requirement. Without a shield, it is not a coat of arms, but a badge, emblem or other device. If it does not follow heraldic tradition, it is not heraldry, either.

And why would I edit out non-European countries? They have heraldry and coats of arms, too. Canada, South Africa, Nigeria, Russia, Bahrain and so many more. They all include the necessary shield as well. XANDERLIPTAK 02:31, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Wow, you didn't read the article...amazing. You're making my point. A coat of arms IS a badge, emblem and other device. In Europe (and other cultures) those badges, emblems and other devices are depicted on shields. However, that is not the case in every culture. The point I was trying to make about the non-European cultures was if you do not see the need for the distinction then I don't understand your tolerance of the other cultures' conventions being in the article at all. Please take the time to read the article. Regards Tiderolls 02:36, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

The problem with the European designation is that the United States, Canada and briefly some African nations are mentioned, which clearly are not European but have heraldry and coats of arms nonetheless; yes, because European powers introduced the tradition there, but the geographic designation is still in error, especially since Near and Middle Eastern cultures have heraldry like Europe. Yes, the mons is mentioned, but it is labeled as an equivalent, and can receive a mention so long as it is not falsely put forward as heraldic, but as a Japanese practice.

Oh, and a badge is an heraldic device that is not a coat of arms. Badges and coats of arms are distinct, just as a crest and escutcheon are distinct. All coats of arms are emblems, but not all emblems are coats of arms. All badges are emblems, but not all emblems are badges. All mons are emblems, but not all emblems are mons. Et cetera. XANDERLIPTAK 02:54, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, badges are distinct from coats of arms in European heraldry. Seriously, your POV is too narrow. That is why I questioned your reverting my edit while leaving the non-European content in the article. Either the phrase "coat of arms" is to be defined in a more broad sense than you are allowing, or the non-European content must go. You can't have it both ways. Tiderolls 02:58, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Heraldry exists outside Europe, it has since its conception, so it is incorrect to restrict it in the first sentence to Europe only. Now, how is this too narrow? You want to limit it to Europe, I want to expand it to anywhere heraldry exists. My expanse is narrowing? That does not make sense. How does limiting it to Europe like you suggest allow mention of Canada, the United States and Japan, but my removal of Europe means only European nations are mentionable? You seem to be mixed up in your argument. XANDERLIPTAK 03:12, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Focus...this conversation began when you reverted my edit which distinguishes European heraldry from other forms. I do not want to limit the article to Europe. If the article is to contain the herladry of other cultures, then the distinguishing characteristics of European heraldry need to be included. The reason I seem mixed up to you is that you cannot justify your reversion. Tiderolls 03:18, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

If you do not want to limit heraldry to Europe, why are you arguing that the first sentence limit it to Europe? I am just confused by you. You tell me to put the European designation back in then say you want to include countries outside of Europe. In Europe, a coat of arms is a design on a shield. In Asia, coat of arms is a design on a shield. In the Americas, a coat of arms is a design on a shield. In Africa, a coat of arms is a design on a shield. What is the point of the Europe mention when it is the same everywhere?

I think you are confusing emblem design for heraldry. Say for the UK, the coat of arms of the UK are the arms of HM Elizabeth II; the seal of the UK is a design that shows HM Elizabeth II enthroned with all her royal regalia. The first device is a coat of arms and is heraldic, it is heraldry; the second device is a seal, and is not a coat of arms nor heraldry. So a mons is not a coat of arms, nor is a badge, nor a totem and so forth, they are emblems. They are distinctly seperate and should not be called coats of arms.

As for reasoning for reverting, again I mention that coats of arms exist outside Europe, in the United States, in Canada, in Kenya, South Africa, Australia and Russia and Nigeria and so on, so it is not true that in Europe this is what a coat of arms is. Anywhere you go, that is what a coat of arms is. XANDERLIPTAK 03:32, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

To be clear; I am not lobbying for the phrase to be incorporated into the first sentence. I do not even know how you took that as my position, but moving on; can we agree that "coat of arms" is basically a European description? I will assume that you agree (I could be wrong, please let me know). If this is the case, and the emblems, badges and other inheritable totems of other cultures are included in the article, then those factors that are conventional for European heraldry need to be included for clarity (just as any distinctive characteristics for the non-European emblems and badges would be necessary). I would not say it is absolutely necessary that any of the European characteristics be included in the lead, but wouldn't that be logical as the article is based on a phrase of European origin? I fully support the broad interpretation of "coat of arms" as an inheritable insignia deriving from a need for identification during battle of any kind. However, that does not change the fact that we are discussing an article that deals mainly with a European system. Is that any clearer? Tiderolls 03:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Also, there is no need to lecture me on heraldic convention...I am not a novice. Tiderolls 03:55, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I thought your protest to my edit was to edit back in the European distinction in the first sentence.

I suppose by European you are meaning Western? That you include Canada and the United States in the "European" grouping? I still would have issue with Western, though, because of the Near & Middle Eastern traditions that date back to the same date. I do not think other emblems and traditions should be described in depth here, but notable mentions can be listed in brief summary with a link to their respective article. Mons should not have an image nor so much written of it. I reorganized the article a bit, putting them in a section that labels them as similar to coats of arms but to be described as distinct still. XANDERLIPTAK 04:09, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, western definitely. Canada and the US would have no heraldry if not for Europe (now I'm lecturing you...apologies). I'm of two minds regarding the near and far eastern emblems being included in the article. On one hand coat of arms is a European(Western) phrase. I do, however, find the facts on the emblems and badges of other cultures very interesting. I believe they do require mentioning if only for contrast and comparison. They might even deserve their own articles if those articles don't yet exist (sources would be very problematical I'm guessing). I am not digging my heels in over the phrase being in the first sentence. That's simply where I found it when I reverted the IP that removed it. It seemed eminently logical that the distinction be made in light of the other heraldic cultures being outlined in the article. I haven't put forth much effort into the heraldry articles as they were highly developed by the time I registered here. If you think the article(s) have issues that require attention, I would be glad to hear your ideas and join you on the article talk pages. Thanks for being patient with this discussion. Regards Tiderolls 04:27, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I am a bit of a stickler when it comes to these terms, as I do not like seeing them used incorrectly. Nor do I like seeing mons, for example, described as the "heraldry of Japan", especially since mons predate armorial bearings by nearly 400 years; that makes heraldry the mons of the West, if anything. So, when I come to this article, I expect and I will edit as though it can only be referring to coats of arms in the Indo-European tradition, not to be expanded to include mons, totems, badges or other types of emblems. Those, yes, should have their own article. They should be mentioned here, but clearly defined as being different and independent, so those unfamiliar with heraldry can perhaps learn what a proper coat of arms is, as well as pick up some cultural learning. It would be like seeing a cat but calling it a dog because they both have four legs, a tail and are furry; close enough, so why worry over minor details? XANDERLIPTAK 06:34, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Moonpig

Why did you revet my edit?

As the message I left on your page states, I found your edit to be unconstructive. Did you read any of the links referenced in my message? Tiderolls 14:46, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

What the hell are you on about? No idea how this works, cant find any links in your message and Moonpig dont work89.240.165.32 (talk) 14:53, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

The fact that the site doesn't function may be true and it may be notable, but those are not reasons to blank content from an article as your edit did. That is considered unconstructive. BTW, the blue words in this message are links. Regards Tiderolls 14:57, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

LOL

This is why I love Misplaced Pages Tommy 02:06, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Some days are less boring than others, it's true. Tiderolls 02:08, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

There is a LOT tonight. Tommy 02:09, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Plea

let me make the edit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.151.16.208 (talk) 23:23, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Source your content and cite them properly; you should have no worries. Regards Tiderolls 23:28, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

About the page on: precautionary statement

Sorry for just playing around in the Precautionary Statement page. I just wanted to wonder how to make that thing like TV Shows. WHere it kinda says: Status: Ended. How do I make that box thingy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beamer103 (talk • contribs) 23:38, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea, but you might try a template search. Tiderolls 23:39, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Another message! Not about a page or anything...

Also, Are you an admin or something? I wonder how to be an admin. I also kinda want some advice from you on how to create a page that will take you to page editing or message sending. I want to add a message sending link on my talk page. Can you tell me how to? I would thank u for it. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beamer103 (talk • contribs) 23:44, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Nope, I'm not an admin. I'm kinda confuse about the link you want to create. Could you provide more details? Tiderolls 23:46, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: message talk

Like when on your talk page, how did you make the page that said: click here to send me a message. How do I make a message send page/new section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beamer103 (talk • contribs) 23:48, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I can put it on your talk page easier than I could explain it. Do you want it there? Tiderolls 23:50, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

re:again message!

Yes! Thank you! Make it exactly as yours. :).

--Beamer103 (talk) 23:51, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

...

THANK YOU! I owe you for this! Can you also make like a section with a test? Go to my talk page and then send a message! Add more stuff if you can. :) I wonder if you can send friend requests to people on Misplaced Pages.

--Beamer103 (talk) 23:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi, there.

Guess who? =) - Donald Duck (talk) 00:04, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I so suck at this game. Tiderolls 00:04, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

OK, I went to your user page and got a huge hint...lol...why the change? Tiderolls 00:06, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Because I got back into Kingdom Hearts. Also, if you're interested, I just updated my userpage. Check it out. - Donald Duck (talk) 00:18, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Mmm

Sorry —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.25.14.15 (talk) 00:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Reverting Vandalism

Thanks for catching the vandalism to my userpage. GregJackP (talk) 14:29, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome and thanks for letting me know you didn't mind me butting in. See ya 'round Tiderolls 23:40, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

MV Moscow University

I've used the banhammer and granted the IP a wikibreak. Mjroots (talk) 07:54, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Breaks can be very beneficial. I shall take one now :) Thanks for your quick action. Tiderolls 07:55, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

You too?

What an odd mixture of helpful and really dumb edits. BTW, how you doin', bitch? Haha, Drmies (talk) 14:33, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. While I'm watching recent changes I usually leave tabs open on contrib pages so I will be able to refer back. That was one strange sequence. Things are good here, thanks for your concern..lol Tiderolls 16:34, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: User talk:Jimbo Wales‎

If you're available, could you review what is going on with User talk:Jimbo Wales‎. Thanks, --Morenooso (talk) 06:30, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I took a look at the discussion and regret to say that I have nothing to add. I do not follow Commons policy and I'm afraid that my POV isn't generally shared by the community anyway. I would caution you to avoid edit warring on Jimbo's page, though...it's highly visible. There are several admins watching and engaging in this discussion over several forums so I believe there are ample eyes on. I can understand the frustration that you are facing, but if it's too challenging I would advise you to walk away. Apologies for not being of more substantive assistance. Tiderolls 06:40, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't aware that what I was doing was edit-warring here. I just apologized on another admin's talkpage as I value my edit privileges. The previous editor, who I reverted had reverted another editor twice, with whom I agreed with. I apologize to Jimbo as well. --Morenooso (talk) 06:43, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mean to imply that you were edit warring. I just didn't want you to go over the line in the heat of the moment. By all means, state your opinions and edit in line with your conscience. Just be careful. Tiderolls 06:49, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

No, you're right. Another admin on his talkpage explained it all to me with the same perspective as you. I feel fortunate that neither of you blocked me for edit-warring. It is within your rights as an admin, and I stretched my neck by doing what I did. I take responsibility for my actions and will reflect on this tomorrow. It's nitety-night for me as midnight approaches. Thanks again for your kind words and being gentle with me. --Morenooso (talk) 06:53, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not an admin so you have no worries there :) Anyway, blocks are preventitive not punishment. If you recognize your behavior is against policy and make the appropriate change(s), then you can easily avoid blocks. From our conversation here I'm not overly concerned with your editing. If there's ever any way that I can be of assistance, please let me know. See ya 'round Tiderolls 07:04, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Recommendation

Hey you should google "mana bar" and then delete that

a bunch of guys started a wikipedia for their bar by making a facebook post and asking all their internet friends to edit wikipedia for them

if you're gonna delete my stuff, that's fair, just do wikipedia a favor and go delete that page too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.35.122.169 (talk) 06:57, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I can't delete anything as I'm not an administrator, but I'll look into it. In the meantime, you might find this informative. Regards Tiderolls 06:59, 8 May 2010 (UTC)