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Revision as of 06:25, 29 August 2011 editRedtigerxyz (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers69,090 edits →Requested move: comm← Previous edit Revision as of 07:41, 29 August 2011 edit undoAndries (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers27,090 edits →Requested move: he declared himself a reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba in the 1940s. Sai Baba was the name that stuck for him.Next edit →
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*'''Oppose''' SSB is the name normally used and every word in this name is a honorific. Sathya means truth or true. Sai means originally saint, but also refers to ]. Baba means father. ] (]) 17:48, 28 August 2011 (UTC) I think his real name was Sathya Narayana Raju Ratnakaram. ] (]) 17:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC) *'''Oppose''' SSB is the name normally used and every word in this name is a honorific. Sathya means truth or true. Sai means originally saint, but also refers to ]. Baba means father. ] (]) 17:48, 28 August 2011 (UTC) I think his real name was Sathya Narayana Raju Ratnakaram. ] (]) 17:51, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
:: But the point is, SSB referred to himself many a times as "Sathya Sai." "Baba" was only an honorific Hindu's add to show respect towards someone. ] (]) 19:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC) :: But the point is, SSB referred to himself many a times as "Sathya Sai." "Baba" was only an honorific Hindu's add to show respect towards someone. ] (]) 19:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
:::You are right that he called himself often "Sathya Sai", but he declared himself a reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba (i.e. "Sai Baba") in the 1940s. Sai Baba was the name that stuck. "Sathya" was only added sometimes to distinguish him from ]. ] (]) 07:41, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''': per ] and ]: "Where an honorific is so commonly attached to a name that the name is rarely found without it, it should be included. The honorific should be included for "Father Coughlin" (Charles Coughlin), the 1930s priest and broadcaster; Father Damien, the missionary in Hawaii; Father Divine, an American religious leader; Father Joseph, in 17th-century France; and Mother Teresa, a 20th-century humanitarian." --] <sup> ] </sup> 06:25, 29 August 2011 (UTC) *'''Oppose''': per ] and ]: "Where an honorific is so commonly attached to a name that the name is rarely found without it, it should be included. The honorific should be included for "Father Coughlin" (Charles Coughlin), the 1930s priest and broadcaster; Father Damien, the missionary in Hawaii; Father Divine, an American religious leader; Father Joseph, in 17th-century France; and Mother Teresa, a 20th-century humanitarian." --] <sup> ] </sup> 06:25, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

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To-do list for Sathya Sai Baba: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2011-04-25

  1. Include a "Bibliography" section, with informations about his writings (the several "Vahini" books that Sathya Sai Baba has written)
  2. Add some more info from Erlendur Haraldsson's book, e.g. M. Krishna (partially done)
  3. Improve the article based on Jossi proposals recommended by the arbitration commitee.
  4. Remove unreliable and poorly sourced material from the article
  5. Add some more info from the book "Love is my form" (the book cost USD 99.00 and it may be difficult to order)
  6. Write about the Prashanti Council in the section organizations
  7. Ensure only professional critics are sourced, rather than unfounded authors who otherwise specialize in other areas.
  8. Add more interesting pictures, such as that of his books, centers etc.
  9. Add a photo of Sathya Sai Baba (done)


Neutrality

If no one objects, I will remove the neutrality disputed tag. Rumiton (talk) 14:17, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Done. Rumiton (talk) 12:49, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
The article looks the best it has done in a long time. --JN466 11:18, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Rahm

I have reverted a recent edit to the effect that Rahm's case was "unrelated" to his claims of sexual abuse. This is not quite true. The documents concerning Alaya Rahm's case against the Sai Baba Society are available on line from the court at ] and other court pages. Sai Baba being an Indian in India could not be arraigned in a US court. The general category of Property Damage seems to be a peculiarity of the California legal system; the case was for negligence on the part of the Society in arranging and paying for a trip to India for a minor unaccompanied by his parents. It was alleged that since Sai Baba had a long history of abuse accusations against him, that the society had failed in their duty of care in encouraging him to go. The person who actually accompanied him was a Mr Kreydick, who Rahm believed to be a principal of the society. When Kreydick signed a deposition from India that he arranged and financed the trip himself, and was not acting as a principal of the Society, Rahm's case could not proceed. He and the Society dismissed their cases against each other on the same day and document. Devotee websites have trumpeted this result as proof that no abuse ever took place, but it is no such thing. The article already says that no formal charge or conviction has ever been made for abuse. Rumiton (talk) 12:24, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the correction. At the CA court site, unless I paid for a transcript, I could only see that it was a "Property Damage-other" case and assumed it was unrelated.
Another question: could a criminal abuse case against S. Sai Baba(SSB) ever been brought to court in California? Any crime would have occurred in India and SSB being an Indian in India could not be arraigned in a US court. If so, a criminal case would have had to be initiated in India where SSB had well-placed devotees in the government. In one word, "jurisdiction?".

--Javaweb (talk) 14:25, 3 July 2011 (UTC)Javaweb

As I understand it, any case directly against SSB could only have been brought in India. The situation would have been much as you describe. Rumiton (talk) 15:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Rumiton, how do you know all this? It sounds plausible. I may have missed something lately. If true, can the court case get removed? I have been saying for years that the court case was insignificant. Andries (talk) 20:41, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. The case was determined because the Sai Baba Society didn't pay for an airline ticket, someone else did. The outcome had nothing to do with SSB's conduct. More importantly, the case's inclusion is also confusing. Its outcome had nothing to with SSB. Neither the court or the plaintiff made any determination about SSB's conduct. The article does not make that clear. --Javaweb (talk) 21:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)Javaweb
I would say it is peripherally significant, but "how I know all this" is part of the problem. It involved a lot of original research into a lot of primary documents, and some synthesis, none of which I am qualified to undertake. I would be happy to see the court case disappear from the article also, for lack of reputable sources to tell us about it. Rumiton (talk) 11:33, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
In the spirit of wp:BRD I have removed that paragraph. Rumiton (talk) 02:06, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Swamis Age

The avatar was 85. Not 84 because, when God decides to incarnate in this world, it is counted diffrently. Wikipeidia is not precise. The avathars life stars before birth thats why his 85 year bithday was celeberated november 2010.

Consistently in Misplaced Pages, someone's age is calculated from the date his Mom gave birth being age 0. That is, the duration walking the Earth. --Javaweb (talk) 21:55, 18 July 2011 (UTC)Javaweb

New York Times explains gold watch illusion

Rao's contacts with swamis have brought him embarrassment more than once. In 1993, he seemed moved during a visit to his native state of Andhra Pradesh when a well-known guru, Sai Baba, appeared to produce a gold watch out of thin air. But Indian newspapers had considerable fun at Mr. Rao's expense when film of the event that had been taped by an Indian state television team was played back in slow motion and revealed the Mr. Baba had employed sleight-of-hand techniques commonly used by magicians.

— John F. Burns (October 10, 1995). "India's 'Guru Busters' Debunk All That's Mystical". New York Times.

<-- Please keep this comment and the ref section at the end of the article -->

References

Experience is better than rumor

I personally experienced supernatural events on a trip to visit Sai Baba that are not part of any magicians repertoire. These include gifts of gold jewelry by total strangers on Sai Babas behalf, telepathic communication and shaktipat. This was not a trick or a ruse. I saw vibhtti manifested and could clearly see his golden aura eminating from his body. I am not trying to do anything than bear witness to the facts as I experienced them and offer that Baba's spirit is kind, his wisdom is deep and his message is pure. Sai Ram. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.195.101 (talk) 04:25, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Personal testimony cannot be used in Misplaced Pages. You might imagine the mess that would arise if this were not so. We can only work with reputable sources. Rumiton (talk) 12:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

It has been proposed in this section that Sathya Sai Baba be renamed and moved to Sathya Sai.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

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Sathya Sai Baba → Sathya Sai – Titles and honorifics should not be used when naming an article. Avenue X at Cicero (talk) 12:23, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

But the point is, SSB referred to himself many a times as "Sathya Sai." "Baba" was only an honorific Hindu's add to show respect towards someone. Avenue X at Cicero (talk) 19:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
You are right that he called himself often "Sathya Sai", but he declared himself a reincarnation of Shirdi Sai Baba (i.e. "Sai Baba") in the 1940s. Sai Baba was the name that stuck. "Sathya" was only added sometimes to distinguish him from Shirdi Sai Baba. Andries (talk) 07:41, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
  • Oppose: per WP:COMMONNAME and Misplaced Pages:HONORIFIC: "Where an honorific is so commonly attached to a name that the name is rarely found without it, it should be included. The honorific should be included for "Father Coughlin" (Charles Coughlin), the 1930s priest and broadcaster; Father Damien, the missionary in Hawaii; Father Divine, an American religious leader; Father Joseph, in 17th-century France; and Mother Teresa, a 20th-century humanitarian." --Redtigerxyz 06:25, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
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