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	Parkour was one of the Sports and recreation good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 26, 2007 Peer review Reviewed January 30, 2009 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

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State of the article

I have added a couple words to indicate that freerunning is typically done in urban spaces in the intro, as it is not clear at all in the current version 209.195.65.39 (talk) 05:10, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

• Need to carefully consider items included in Parkour in popular culture, make sure items are relevant and good examples. We are merging the parkour in popular culture article with the parkour article.
• Need to craft better standards for grammar and terminology. The article is still somewhat inconsistent.

• "Parkour" or "Freerunning" should be uppercase. Both are names.

• Parkour gyms are starting to appear across the world, such as APEX in Colorado, Tempest Freerunning's gym, Parkour Vision's gym, etc. This seems ripe for mentioning as it develops. Worth exploring.
• Some parts of the article need to be organized a little better.
• Still some controversy about parkour / freerunning wording of different parts of the article should be considered. It seems the consensus is that "Parkour and freerunning are similar, but separate disciplines." We have decided to not merge the articles.
• Review and edit the Wiktionary terms for parkour and freerunning.
• The reference list could use updating.

The part about Parkour and Free running being seperate is incorrect as Parkour translated into english is Free running. aslo i agree that the thing about parkour gyms should be looked into as there are now organised parkour lessons in Fed Square in Melbourne. Thatparkourkid (talk) 01:50, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

MarkTraceur (talk) 02:04, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

'Parkour' translated into English is 'course'. Although the name 'Freerunning' was initially intended to just be an English name for Parkour, the name was only ever used by Sebastien Foucan and he subsequently used it to refer to his own, slightly different, discipline. It would be good to include more about Freerunning, but the problem we have here is that good references on Freerunning are in even shorter supply than good references on Parkour. Feraess (talk) 09:22, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I've updated the standard above and I've changed the article to reflect it. Feraess (talk) 14:20, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Please feel free to update this with whatever topics are most relevant. Thanks! Dhechols (talk) 19:46, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I do think that if you archived Image edit war, it could be removed from the current talk page, merge with freerunning is worth retaining in the current version of the talk page (we could put links at the top of that subsection to freerunning, not that efficient, even some to discussions about merging that are on the freerunning talk page). mystery (talk) 19:42, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

This entire article feels like a promotional statement. I mean, "When injuries do occur, many members in the parkour community encourage pursuing the most scientifically sound method to recovery and future prevention.", what? 85.226.157.128 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC).

I understand that on the surface it appears as though the word 'Parkour' should be treated like sports and other activities and not capitalised, however at this point in history 'Parkour' is the name of a single, unique discipline and as such is a proper noun. There is some disagreement within the Parkour community on this, possibly based on politics, but shouldn't the name 'Parkour' be capitalised in this article? Feraess (talk) 10:05, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I think based on the etymology, you could argue it's an improper noun denoting some set of movements. "Le parcours" is certainly an improper noun, and removing the s and modernizing the spelling doesn't seem like it would be enough to negate that fact. --MarkTraceur (talk) 14:46, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I see what you're saying, but if that were true could you not also then argue that any names once derived from a common noun should also not be capitalised, for example Burger King? Ultimately, the etymology of a word is not the governing factor in determining how to classify a word, but rather the current usage of the word itself. In the case of this article, 'Parkour' is not an improper noun denoting a set of movements but the name of a unique entity. I think we may have to accept that there are other uses of the word 'Parkour' in which it's treated as another type of word, but I think we're moving into the realms of 'Parkour (disambiguation)' there, and away from the subject of this article. Feraess (talk) 08:53, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Parkour in popular culture

Supergran

I am pretty sure I saw some parkour action in this 1985 series, made by Supergran character! Is it the oldest reference? Total (talk) 18:16, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

That is unlikely since the discipline of Parkour didn't exist in 1985. Not all climbing on walls and buildings is Parkour, only that which is connected to a discipline of training through trying to move past obstacles. Feraess (talk) 03:41, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Parkour, Free Running, and the Art of Movement (L'arte du Déplacement )

Before the terms 'parkour' and 'free running' were even coined, the founders of the disciplines that we know today called their craft "The Art of Movement", with the French translation l'Arte du Déplacement (ADD).

Here's the honest truth from the mouths of the founders themselves. Free Running did not come from parkour, nor vice versa. In fact, parkour and free running are the exact same thing. I'll explain...

ADD is what the Yamakasi founders call their art, even today. Before ADD was even presented to the media, people like David, Chau, Yann, and Sebastian have already been training for years. Each of them have their own philosophy for why they train, exactly like we all do now. For Yann, ADD was all about discipline; For Sebastian, ADD meant freedom of movement; And for David, he trained for the utilitarian aspect. The terms 'parkour' and 'free running' still don't exist at this point. Even today though their philosophies are different, as far as each is concerned, they are all doing the same thing as one another.

Here is where the term's 'parkour' comes into play. David Belle aspired to become an actor and a stunt man, so he left the Yamakasi training group go on his own path. This is when he created the short film "Speed Air Man", using the root word 'parcours'. Eventually, David changed the word to 'parkour' and injected the term into the media mainstream. This was how David came to be known as the founder of parkour.

And now, 'free running'. Eventually, Sebastian Foucan started edging towards the media as well. The BBC decided to jump on this new fad and created a documentary called "Jump London". Sebastian held a starring role in this. The BBC executives decided that neither 'parkour' nor 'ADD' would catch the eye of English speakers. So they engineered the new term 'free running'. Sebastian described the art as freedom of movement. This was his own personal philosophy, but this is how Sebastian came to be known as the founder of free running.

These are two names sprung from the same art. The bare-bones philosophy that encompasses all philosophies of ADD is self-improvement. If flips is your idea of self-improvement, then flips are indeed a part of parkour; a speed vault is indeed an element of free running. We all practice the same art; we just use different languages to express it.

Now, the ultimate question..... What do we do with this information? Glelin (talk) 00:32, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

That's all original research without citation to reliable sources. And I bet that's not the only story about how it happened. --Izno (talk) 19:51, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

It's the only true story. There will be a reliable source in the near future. A lovely lady named Julie Angel is doing her doctoral dissertation about Parkour. She has been a friend of some of the Yamakasi founders for many years, and has interviewed most of them. I'll link to it once she releases it. Glelin (talk) 02:45, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

That's as may be, but Misplaced Pages is not based on truth but on verifiability. And we work with the sources we have in the present, not ones we'll have in the future. --Izno (talk) 02:47, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

That's alright. Just don't delete this. I spent quite a while typing this out. Once the source is released, I'll revive the topic. Glelin (talk) 02:54, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

It's on the talk page. I wouldn't think to delete it save for archival. --Izno (talk) 03:06, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for this Glelin. I've trained with the founders myself, (PK Gen, Yamakasi), I've met Sabastian and Julie Angel. I agree with your assessment that the parkour community and the freerunning community should be the same thing.

The reality is, unfortunately, that some people in these two communities currently view each other as separate entities, though we are very close to each other. Misplaced Pages should simply state the facts in the most neutral way possible.

I think this discussion is very valuable and should be captured in the article. I also think it will be very difficult to understand and very difficult to write this as a neutral part of the article. If anything, it should be under a section about how the community views itself -- not a section stating what parkour is or freerunning is, etc.

Important to note is that the founders are not the sole authority on parkour. There are now many organizations and people involved in it from all over the world, and to meet Misplaced Pages's goal of neutrality, we need to represent the entire community.

Thanks and keep up all the good editing! :) Dhechols (talk) 14:43, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

I've expanded the history section with references to Julie Angel's Cine Parkour research and David Belle's book. I've also moved the section on recent military training to the bottom of the popular culture section, since it's more a reflection of pop culture than a part of parkour history. I'm now going to tidy up the other parts of the article that have been left behind with the recent improvements. Feraess (talk) 05:37, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup of Parkour in popular culture

I'd like to get the article merged into this one. Preferably, the way we do this is to strip the above article of what are essentially non-notable examples of parkour, and then merge the others in with lists of prose. I'm stripping first, then I'll see about merging. For example, Assassin's Creed and Prince of Persia might feature here, while one episode of one TV series probably would not. I hope there aren't any problems with this. --Izno (talk) 03:40, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

So I've stripped down the article to verifiable portions and to items which are centered around parkour. Some of the documentaries would probably be good for verification of this article. Next step is to merge, which won't be happening tonight. Then a redirect of the pop culture article. --Izno (talk) 04:17, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

And done. I think I've managed to clean out the stuff that needed cleaning. The documentaries and documentary episodes (60 Minutes) about parkour should be used as sources, rather than mentioned directly. --Izno (talk) 00:46, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Why Literature, Television and music video have beem removed? What criteria did you used to assert that they are not notable? Carlosguitar  11:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

If there is a Misplaced Pages article directly on that subject, and a reliable source which supports the use of parkour in that subject. Fairly minimal criteria, but otherwise we see the bloat of the previous article. --Izno (talk) 14:41, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

You did not removed based on WP:N. Madonna’s Confessions Tour is cited on New York Times as well her Jump music is on The Sunday Times, Tog Gear episode is on The Guardian, Live Free or Die Hard film is also on USA Today. I could go on and cite many other that you have removed. Notability is NOT temporary and if there is a citation on third party source that is enough to make a large paragraph about it. When section get large we split off, that is the main reason why I have created Parkour in popular culture. This article was also sent to WP:AFD three times and closed with one no consensus and TWO keeps.

The only way to not get this article bloated is not allowing ANY popular culture entry. Does not belong to us decided what should be kept of removed. I did not like it is never a reason to remove them. Carlosguitar  07:55, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

No, I removed them based on whether they had an article or not, not whether they were simply citable as you have attempted to do here. I just realized my last criterion: Where parkour was not important to the creation of the work, I removed; in other words, if the sourcing did not explain, in detail, how parkour was important to the creation of the work. I can guarantee, parkour is not important to Top Gear or to Madonna. The article you link to about Life Free and Die Hard only notes that it was in Die Hard... and not that it was important to Die Hard's creation. Nor does it detail how Die Hard make use of it; it's a one-off "oh, it was in this film". That's not useful for deciding what goes into a popular culture section and what does not.

As for previous consensus on the article, none of those closes forbids a properly performed merge, which is an editorial decision.

In closing, writing a good article and having clutter are exclusive options. And I would rather we have a good article. --Izno (talk) 14:00, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

The guarantee offer is totally subject and personal. It does not change that you removed or kept thing because you like (important) or dislike (unimportant). You said: "I removed them based on whether they had an article or not" parkour is mentioned on Jump_(Madonna_song)#Music_video yet nothing is mentioned here and needing an article or a sentence in other article to add it, is not a criteria based on any policy or guideline, as far as I know. The music video has many others third-party sources. How parkour was not important to Madonna or Top Gear if they make money on it? What is not important to you does not means that is same to others, that is the problem why these sections turn large and I and other editor decided to split off. Parkour may not well represented on Madonna music video, but that never makes non-notable. The closure rationale was "General support for keeping this article, but editors can discuss a merge to Parkour on the talk pages." General accept to keep the article and discuss if article should be merged or kept. Where was the discussing and consensus to merge Parkour in popular culture and Free running here? I do not think you did. Carlosguitar  13:04, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I think this section of the article can be cleared up if we separate pop culture influences from pop culture mentions. Parkour has had a big influence on pop culture, leading to many instances of characters in films, tv shows, music videos and video games climbing up and jumping between buildings. However, very few of the productions that have been influenced by parkour actually mention the idea of a training discipline based on such actions, i.e. parkour itself. Why not include the direct representations of parkour such as the Jump documentaries and the Yamakasi films in a 'Parkour in pop culture' section, and then create a 'Parkour influence on pop culture' section for all the other things? There we can list the areas of pop culture parkour has influenced, but we would need to mention only the most notable examples of each type as illustration. Feraess (talk) 04:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure the distinction between the two. As I said above, the documentaries would be fantastic citations for the article proper. A lot of the other stuff, as I said before, I tried to keep to references to those with both a Misplaced Pages article already, and a reference discussing parkour. See e.g. Casino Royale. I think these are necessary and sufficient criteria to land something in this section.

I wonder if we can get access to a transcript of the documentaries. --Izno (talk) 12:18, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I think those are good criteria for including references to pop culture in this section, and the list is certianly improving. My point is that as we start to include citations from better sources, this article is distancing itself from the idea that every time someone jumps between buildings it's an instance of parkour. The article now presents parkour more clearly as a training method rather than just a list of movements. As an example, Casino Royale has clearly been influenced by parkour, even to the point of including a parkour practitioner in the film itself, but the film just as clearly does not portray any training method. If we assume the sources we have here are reliable (and I think we're now starting to use sources that are) then we have to say that parkour influenced Casino Royale, but does not feature in it. Those sources that do mention or show a training discipline, such as the Yamakasi films and the Jump documentaries, are actual times when parkour is featured in pop culture.

Getting back to sources, I agree that we should try and include more citations from the documentaries, and also the published books (in particular Julie Angel's 'Cine Parkour', David Belle's 'Parkour', Sebastien Foucan's 'Freerunning' and maybe Dan Edwardes' 'Parkour and Freerunning Handbook'). Having re-written the history section using these references, I think almost the whole rest of the article needs to be updated to reflect these sources. Ironically, the parts of the article that best reflect these sources are the parts that currently contain no citations at all. I don't know if transcripts of the documentaries exist in the public domain, but the whole 'Jump London' documentary exists on Google video if you want to look through it. I have access to all these sources so maybe if I or another editor (always hoping) can pick out the more important parts, we can go through and try and create a good article.Feraess (talk) 22:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree with "but does not feature in it." We should say what the WP:RS says; if one reviewer (or what not) says that he noticed the aspects of parkour, or even goes so far as to note that there was a parkour specialist hired or featured in the film, that's what we should note. That said, I would take care on the WP:SELFPUB side; we don't need to, or want to, limit ourselves to what the RS says, but also what the individuals say (a la the comic reference).

Agreed, but not only those sources; while they may be seminal topics within the parkour world, this is an encyclopedia for generalists. Which only means we have more work finding more sources. :) You might consider listing the tables of contents below so we can get an idea of how the books are structured; we might think to echo that structure loosely as well and go from there.

On an aside, I don't think the "military training" subsection belongs in the popular culture section. --Izno (talk) 23:01, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

There's disagreement in the sources as to whether what is shown in films like Casino Royale, Banlieue 13, Breaking and Entering etc. constitutes parkour. WP:YESPOV means we can't present a contested viewpoint as fact, so even if we're going to give New Yorker and Reuters journalists equal weight as Julie Angel and David Belle in determining what parkour is, we still have to say something like "Various films have been described by journalists as containing parkour sequences... ...even though parkour is described by it's creators and other experts as a training discipline rather than a performance." The current wording presents it as fact rather than opinion, so I think some changes are definitely necessary.

For me, common sense says that on this matter we can give the opinions of the creators and experts more weight than the opinions of journalists, however reliable the journalists are normally. Otherwise, every section of the article needs to be changed to reflect the disagreement in sources. The article itself should at least be internally consistent in how it treats the sources.

Sure, we can separate out the military training part from the pop culture section. I didn't have any special reason for putting it here, it just didn't belong in the history section in it's current state. I'll give it it's own section and leave a 'needs expansion' note.

I'll start a new talk section for looking into new sources. Feraess (talk) 06:54, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Granted. The proper way is not to say "various sources" but to say "X and Y and Z people say A; W says B".

We should definitely document the disagreement in the sources. I would take care to assign more weight to the experts; this is one place where there is primarily belief that parkour is "this thing" rather than any solid definition or anything of the sort as you might see defined in the Laws of the Game (association football).

I think it fits better in the history section than anywhere else. It might not be far history, but it is part of what will inevitably be parkour's history as militaries increasingly begin to use it as a training method (if it is in fact so effective as its proponents claim). I see it at the least being moved up in the article, but I'm unsure where. --Izno (talk) 13:36, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I've re-ordered the first two paragraphs and adjusted the introduction lines to read better. I think documentaries are more directly applicable to parkour than the films. I've also changed the wording throughout the section to remove disputable opinions and also references to parkour techniques or parkour moves, which are inaccurate phrases. I'm relatively happy with the section for now.

I think there are enough reliable sources from experts that we can support a clear definition of parkour in the article. There are at least 3 books we can reference, as well as various newspaper articles and tv reports. I agree there are sources that talk about parkour as something without definition, but that view generally seems to come from people who have just not thought about it enough. Or from people who are trying to change the view of parkour for their own purposes.

To some extent everything in the article could be said to be a part of parkour history. I think generally though the history section should stick to detailing the path taken to arrive at the current form of parkour, i.e. the past. However important the fact that marines have started using modern parkour methods becomes in the future, at the moment there is no evidence of it having any impact on the discipline. Maybe the section on military training could be part of a larger section detailing the influence on areas other than pop culture. Feraess (talk) 01:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Editing

I would like to edit this page on the grounds of valuable knowledge to help young traceurs on their journey. Please may I be granted access to this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NavyCalcro2449 (talk • contribs) 10:47, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello there, NavyCalcro2449. To be able to edit this page, you have to be here for a few days and have 10 edits, or request to 'bypass' that at Misplaced Pages:Requests for permissions/Confirmed. However, I looked at the page you created, Pesanteur Defiant Traceur, and it didn't have any references. So before you edit this page, I would recommend you look at Misplaced Pages's editing policies. Most importantly, Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a medium for teaching others. Also, articles must have a neutral point-of-view, be verifiable, have no original research. Mysterytrey talk 19:57, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

New and under-used sources

Here's a quick summary of relativly recent books published on parkour, with contents list as requested.

'Ciné Parkour' by Julie Angel. This is her phd thesis on parkour. 1. A historical overview of parkour. 2. Documenting movement (overview of data collection methods). 3. Theorising the practise of parkour. 4. The parkour paradox, co-option for spectacle and institutionalisation. Glossary. Terminology timeline. Parcours timeline.

'Parkour' by David Belle. In French. Done in the q&a format of an interview. Preface by Luc Besson. 1. My father the hero. 2. Departure point. 3. Learnings. 4. First time. 5. Acceleration. 6. Risk of falling. 7. Witness passage. 8. Banlieue 13. 9. End of parcours?

'Freerunning' by Sébastien Foucan. Mostly short quotes but with useful introduction. Feraess (talk) 07:58, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I've just been through the current references to find dead ones. References # 2,3,6,17,20,21,36,37,38,43,44,51,57, were dead. Reference 22 has a working link, but to entirely the wrong page. Reference 28 was the same as #23. I fixed references 6,17,28,36,37,43,and 44. I've left the rest for now in case someone else is better at resurrecting links than I am. Feraess (talk) 09:50, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Methode naturelle, freerunning and philosophy

I'd like to make an important note here regarding historical accuracy and misunderstandings.

First off, the history of Georges Hébert and he's teachings requires an expansion. The proper name for Hébert's teachings is L’Education Physique, Virile et Morale par la Methode e.i Physical, Virile and Moral Education by the Natural Method. As the name suggest this was not barely a method for physical training but also moral and ethics. Another important side not is that Héberts teachings were a re-worked version of Francisco Amoros teaching. I do unfortunately not own Hérberts book, so I cannot give a direct, reliable source to all this. The only one I am aware of that own this book is Erwan Le Corre (I emailed him about this) and he have made an overview regarding methode naturelle and Hébert.

http://movnat.com/the-roots-of-methode-naturelle/

The text about freerunning also requires an expansion and further information. A lot of in-depth and very valuable information about the term can be found in Julie Ange's 6-years PhD research about parkour, titled Ciné Parkour. Contains the whole, and the true story of its history.

Third and last, the philosophy sections requires an expansion. Dan Edwardes parkour & freerunning handbook, which is reliable because it was developed in conuction with many of the founders, including Chau Belle Dinh and David Belle's former students Stephane Vigroux and Kazuma have a brief overview of the most important aspects regarding the philosophy and 'the way'. There is also various interviews with the founders, and their students, which can be used (for instance - an interview with Stepane Vigroux uploaded on youtube)

I have tried to add some of this personally, but its often been rejected, maybe because I don't put it forward very well, or because its been considered not 'reliable' which is kinda ignorant since the base and the core of parkour is found in history. I once tried to expand the freerunning section but this was rejected because it was to 'complex'. It is at least food for thoughts, and I suggest we need more reliable information and further expansions. More over, the article have improved a lot in my opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.255.148.202 (talk) 14:41, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

The content you may have attempted to add was probably not called unreliable, but that it has no reliable sourcing. Be careful of that distinction. Watchers of this page are aware that there are texts that talk about these things, but without direct citations to the content, it is easier in the meantime to reject the change until a book or paper and page number can be provided. Watchers of this page are also aware that there need to be expansions throughout the text of the article. --Izno (talk) 22:43, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree it would be good if we could re-work the Georges Hébert section. I've been concentrating on the more modern history but maybe I can take a look at the Hébert section too. I don't have a copy of his book, but I know there are at least a couple of parkour practitioners in the US who do own a copy as they did a partial translation on a message board several years back (which I have a copy of somewhere). I imagine Erwan is too busy with his own projects to spend much time on the wikipedia parkour article, but I think we should use his article on Hébert to improve this section at the very least. If you want to suggest some improvements here either myself or another editor can work on finding citations to support them.

Ciné Parkour is a good resource for historical elements, and so can be used as reference for some more backstory to freerunning. However it is not a good source on definitions and so I don't want to rely on it too heavily. Since most sources (and my own experience with the subject) say that freerunning is not a separate discipline, just a very slightly different approach to the same discipline, I don't think it warrants a greatly expanded section. I agree it could do with a little expansion, but I think that other areas of the article (such as the philosophy) are more of a priority for me at the moment. Suggest some changes here and we'll see what works. If we can agree here and find citations the changes are unlikely to be automatically reverted.

The philosophy section is one of the two major problems in the article at the moment (the other being the non-existent section containing references on what the training method is). The article has had a philosophy section for several years, but has never to my knowledge actually included any information as to what the philosophy consists of. It definitely needs work, and I think it's a priority now that the history section has laid the foundations. There are a number of interviews we can reference, although since there's no clear consensus we're going to have to be careful to make it clear that all philosophical interpretations are opinion rather than fact. We might be able to use the Parkour and Freerunning Handbook to support some statements, but I'd rather not use it as a main source as it's section on philosophy is very limited and seems almost an afterthought in the book. Anyway, there are plenty of interviews with practitioners we can reference. Feraess (talk) 08:41, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I believe I have the translated text of Héberts work but unfortunately it was not complete but only a part of his work. It is most likely very hard to get our hands on Hébert’s book and I am not sure if there even is a English translation of it. So the question is whenever what’s on Erwans page can be considered as reliable? Because that could be used to improve the whole article about Hébert’s teachings.

Ciné Parkour is indeed very good because it’s a neutral, scientific approach written by an outsider. I am writing about freerunning right now in order to explain it shortly. I also gather sources. And as you say it is not a separate discipline. The name was used by Sébastien Foucan first as a translation of parkour and then as a variation of it because he didn’t want to associate what he was doing to closely with David’s parkour out of respect for David. Sébastien wanted to make it more accessible and free, and as said in Ciné Parkour, it was very hard for people to gain access to the discipline in the beginning. Now freerunning is (incorrectly) labeled as ‘parkour with flips’, or tricking, which is irrelevant to the question. So yes, freerunning does not require a whole section.

It do seems like the tricking section was removed which I don’t understand. Right now tricking community have been on an uprising since parkour got into the mainstream.

Regarding philosophy, it is as you say a touchy subject. Because every practitioners get’s his or her own philosophy and view, so its subjective. There are however things are central to parkour, such as respecting the environment, helping others etc. and there are many of sources for this. But this may be more like principles and values rather than philosophy?

There is many goodies in the ‘The parkour & freerunning hanbook’ By Dan Edwardes, both in terms of training principles, and ethical values. It is a reliable source in my opinion, because he (Dan) wrote the book in conjunction with Stephane Vigroux, and other people from the Yamakasi, and they’re all colleagues and close friends. There is also a lot of other reliable sources; documentaries (Generation Yamakasi for instance and many interviews with Belle), video reviews, written interviews, quotes, books etc.

So, I will keep on working on the freerunning section an write a short explanation on that and also to look for the sources to this information. Then I may aswell start working on the philosophy section.

(ParkourHistory (talk) 18:04, 5 October 2012 (UTC))

Overview

I found something wrong with this overview:

Parkour (French pronunciation: ) (abbreviated PK) is freerunning that developed out of military obstacle course training. Practitioners aim to move quickly and efficiently from one place to another, negotiating the obstacles in between. Popularised in France by David Belle and others in the 1990s and 2000s, parkour uses no equipment and is non-competitive.

I will try to explain why I changed this overview, and why it should be changed. I also added sources – which it at first didn’t have.

1. Freerunning stems from parkour - not the obstacle course. Freerunning was used as a direct translation of parkour in the documentary Jump London. Sébastien Foucan then kept using the term, and eventually made it his own, because he didn’t want to associate it to closely with David’s parkour which was a very particular training method that isn’t for everyone. In terms of concepts, it’s exactly the same thing.

Claiming that parkour was ‘popularized’ by David Belle is a very ambiguous statement. It can potentially be understood in two ways:

(1) David Belle is alone responsible for making parkour popular outside of France/Lisses

(2) Parkour have always existed and David Belle made it popular.

(1) And (2) is false.

(1) Cannot be true because David wasn’t alone in his training. He trained for over ten years with 8 other guys, where seven of them later would create the group called Yamakasi, and the other (Sébastien Foucan) would eventually do the documentary Jump London. While David Belle’s showreel for Spiderman, Speedairman, gained a lot of attention, It is impossible that he, alone, was responsible for bringing parkour outside of France. And how would it be possible to measure who made it popularized?

(2) While parkour is inspired by myriads of different sources it is impossible or at least extremely unlikely that parkour was trained/practiced by other’s before or even under the development of it. Some defines parkour as simply the act of ‘moving from A to B’. While this is true, it is not a definition of parkour, and its rarely a description of the essence. Parkour is in short a certain method of training and thinking, and this method was not known by anyone else until parkour became known in media and spread worldwide. It (parkour) was developed, not ‘popularized’.

If anyone else have any other suggestions and ideas, please respond.

The mention of 'freerunning' in the intro was an edit by 'I ERTN HD' and almost certainly a piece of vandalism. I wouldn't worry too much about getting rid of it.

I don't agree that the statement 'popularised by David Belle and others' could be interepreted as meaning David Belle alone is responsible for popularising it. It seems obvious to me that 'and others' means there are other people involved. David Belle is simply the most notable of the group. I agree that the statement doesn't explicitly rule out the possibility that Parkour had always existed, but I don't think it can be interpreted as supporting it either. What it does do is recognise that it wasn't David who created Parkour.

The history section goes into detail about the history of Parkour. I don't think we need to include quite so much of it in the intro, and it doesn't read very well. I've tried to fix these problems in an updated version. Feraess (talk) 02:13, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Wrong information

The article as of the date of this writing has "A practitioner of parkour is called a "traceur", with the feminine form being "traceuse". The original term was simply "tracer" without the 'u' but the word has evolved and now is accepted as having a 'u.'"

Anyone who speaks French knows that this is wrong. I do, because I'm a French national. "traceur" is the noun that we use to refer to a male person with regard to the action that derives from the verb (tracer). We do the same with danser (to dance): a dancer is un danceur, manger (to eat) yields un mangeur, casser leads to un casseur. And (off the top of my head!!!) any verb that ends with 'er' will yield a male-gender noun that ends with 'eur' even if the resulting noun means absolutely nothing in the language, which would for instance be the case for brancher (to plug in, or, to hit on) and brancheur (by the way, traceur means nothing outside of parkour: you tell someone in the street "je suis un traceur/une traceuse", they won't know what you're talking about… I, whose native language is French, didn't even know traceur before reading this article in English!)

So no, even if traceur (in French) has the ending sound of 'tracer' pronounced the English way, there is absolutely no way "the original term has evolved" can be true: the pronunciation in French of 'tracer' is not the same as the one of 'traceur'. One term is unequivocally a verb and the other is just as unambiguously a noun. It actually denotes ignorance of French (if not also of grammar in any language) to write the second sentence ("The original term having a 'u.'"). It probably gained acceptance in English-speaking countries… or amongst parkour practitioners who wanted to sound English for the hip aspect of it but I'm damn sure it never had an ounce of acceptance in francophone cultures because it violates the noun derivation rule in French grammar.

I won't change the article because I'm an English to French translator and I don't write a good English and also because I was watching X-Men: First Class, I wanted to know due to her accent what part of the US Jennifer Lawrence came from, and I landed on this page via her page where parkour was mentioned. As is, the two sentences I've cited at the beginning of this section are misleading at best. Amenel (talk) 15:18, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

So fix it! I would agree either way that the "the original term... accepted as having a 'u.'" either a) needs a citation or b) needs to be deleted. --Izno (talk) 01:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

For what it's worth I've fixed up some bits of the etymology section. I think it's looking much leaner, more understandable, and more correct than it was. If you have any further thoughts, I could probably tweak it more. However, note that I haven't touched the first paragraph, I only played with the "traceur" section. --MarkTraceur (talk) 15:49, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Is Parkour the same as Freerunning?

I reverted an edit by another editor in which they expressed the opinion that Parkour and Freeruninng are sufficiently distinct that this page should not discuss both. (If I am reading their edit summary correctly.)

I would argue that, while the emphasis is different, the terms are often used interchangably.

Opinions? --Andrewaskew (talk) 03:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Odd interpretation of the edit summary. It is simply the case that they are different and so the IPs summary was incorrect. The page does discuss freerunning (see Parkour#Freerunning), but not as the topic of the page itself, making it inappropriate for the lead. --Izno (talk) 12:52, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

List of Movements

Why was the list of movements removed? Sure, there may be no official list of movements, but the common moves list was very helpful and informative, and I see no reason why it was removed. Is it possible to have it reinstated? 63.199.33.70 (talk) 19:05, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Even if I agreed with you, this policy doesn't (neither does this policy). As it happens, I don't agree with you. They add little to the understanding of what parkour is. --Izno (talk) 22:16, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Even if parkour is not itself a bunch of movements, there needs to be some description of what parkour actually looks like. It's not just "getting from A to B, negotiating the obstacles in between" - in that case a swimmer could be a traceur, or a climber, or a hurdler. But swimming is rarely considered parkour, and simply climbing or hurdling by themselves are not parkour. Rather a traceur needs to use many different kinds of movements, and there are particular ones that all traceurs practise, thus we should describe them.

Thus I've re-added some movements into the article. This is not guidebook material, there is no how-to content, it is merely descriptive. Nor is it original research, I've included research sources.

Please don't start an edit war, discuss it here first. ··gracefool☺ 02:36, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

I am in favour of including information about what Parkour looks like, but I think we need to do so in a way that doesn't force the article to contradict itself. In particular, we need to avoid even the appearance of creating a list of named movements. Therefore, I'm removing the names from the list and rewording the section a little. Feraess (talk) 21:59, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

While going through it I also removed a lot of incorrect and mostly unreferenced material from the section. This section clearly needs a lot of work if it's going to be worth including in the article. Feraess (talk) 22:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Art of Movement and a template

I would invite Black Dragon to discuss his reasoning behind his additions here. While he has used edit summaries, they're not comprehensive, and this is what talk pages are for. Remember - the onus is on the contributing editor to provide justification for inclusion.

I'll also use the opportunity to remind Black Dragon that he's now at 3RR and further inclusion - without reliable sources - could be interpreted as edit warring with blocks and/or other restrictions maybe following. Chaheel Riens (talk) 06:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Again, Black dragon, you have inserted unsourced commentary on the page. Please provide sources in the article that support this - before somebody with a mop notices that you're at 4RR. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:37, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Black Dragon, if you wish to talk about Parkour - please do so here and not on editors talk pages. That way others can be involved as well. Thank you. Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

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