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Possible area of expansion

There's not much on the reaction the videos provoked or any critical analysis of them (which may be because not much appears in reliable sources). --NeilN 14:06, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Sexist harassment?

I see the harassment she got more as personal attacks as compared to literal sexist harassment. I see no evidence that she was attacked because she was a woman, but because she injected herself to community with which she obviously wasn't familiar with, and she had an agenda. There's equal amount (none) of evidence that she actually was familiar with gaming community and did it on purpose. For that I'd change the wording on the harassment a bit.

Original text says "triggered a wave of sexist harassment" -> "triggered a wave of sexually offensive and personal harassment"

Anybody have a take on that?

Nosepea68 (talk) 00:06, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

The reliable sources say sexist harassment, and we reflect what the sources say. That last bit is your personal POV, which needs to be verified by a reliable source. DonQuixote (talk) 02:38, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

I never intended them to be nothing more as Sarkeesian has gotten rid of the evidence except a screen cap on her website and that's never been analysed by a reliable source. (Genuine question, Should I mark my POV comments like I made something like POV: <statment>?)

And the first bit is semantics. It seems words sexist and sexism are used in a different meaning than their literal definition are i.e. any hate against a person is sexist (or misogynistic) if it's aimed towards a female.

Nosepea68 (talk) 14:26, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

You don't have to mark your statements as POV. Editors' POVs are allowed on talk pages. A NPOV is preferred in the article proper. That being said, we can cite POVs of reliable sources within the article, just not our own POVs. DonQuixote (talk) 14:33, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

I applaud the heroic efforts of Don, Diego and NorthBySouthBaranof to clean up the horrible mess this fork was originally in, but I really see no reason for this article to exist. After Nosepea's blatant attempts to insert ostensibly negative material were removed, the contains nothing that isn't already better covered at Anita Sarkeesian. There is no information on the harrassment campaign or on the reception of the videos, and the only addition is the pointless episode list. And now the content editors have two weak articles to maintain instead of just one. It's not as if the original article just has so much good content that we need to worry about length; at any rate no one has suggested that. I'm leaning towards recommending we just redirect this fork back to the main article; nothing significant will be lost.--Cúchullain /c 22:03, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Now that we have the split in place, it lays the work for a much better organization, we just have to follow the manual of style. The level of content on the video series is undue weight on the biography article, as you and others have repeatedly stated at its discussion and edit comments, and has prevented the current sections to grow with more detailed explanations of what the current sources have said; we can simply move the Reception subsection here and leave an overview of the whole Tropes vs Women section written in summary style. The "subsequent harassment" section can conversely left at Anita Sarkeesian and summarized here, as it mostly deals with her and has a thin connection with the video series itself. Diego (talk) 05:19, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Truth be told, this article fails WP:NOTABILITY. Given that these videos have just been released, they're not really notable other than the online harassment (which is already mentioned in the original article). Maybe later on, when these videos have had the chance to influence others works, they might be notable enough for a Misplaced Pages article but not as they are now. This is also why there's no reliable sources with criticism of her work; no reputable expert has found them notable enough, or had time enough, to critique as yet. DonQuixote (talk) 08:56, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, there are relatively few sources that deal with the series as opposed to just discussing it in light of its background, Sarkeesian herself, or video game misogyny in general. It's telling that the sources that do deal specifically with the series - ie, the reception - has been left out of this article while it exists at the main article. As we already have better coverage of this at the main article, it's hard to see the benefit of keeping this fork. So, shall we merge it back?--Cúchullain /c 13:50, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't make sense to simultaneously remove content about the series from Anita Sarkeesian as undue weight and want to merge this back for not having enough content. Either we have too much content, or too few; you can't have both. This article provides us with the opportunity to describe in some detail the contents of each video and the tropes contained in them, which would be totally inadequate at the biography. If you're concerned about duplicate content, the manual of style is precisely clear in what to do: use summary style in one article, and include details in the other. Diego (talk) 22:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

WP:DUEWEIGHT covers this article just as much as the other. Neither are going to include everything every blogger has ever said on the topic. And again, the other article already presents better coverage of the series.--Cúchullain /c 00:33, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

You're conflating two different issues. In the context of the main article, which is about the online harassment and any background information, the minutiae of her work is just too much information which could be written in an article of its own. In the context of this article, there isn't enough information about the series (that is, the series hasn't gained any notability) to warrant an encyclopedia article. The bottom line is, Sarkeesian and her work aren't really that notable outside of academic circles and certainly not notable enough for encyclopedia articles. The only thing that is notable is the online harassment which have been covered by media. DonQuixote (talk) 02:26, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I would oppose a merge. Per this edit, it's clear that material from high quality sources meeting BLP and IRS thresholds is being generated. The source added to the BLP by User:Cuchullain does not appear to discuss the harrassment, instead the source discusses the series itself. Soon more will be available, IMHO sufficient sourcing exists and is used on this page to meet GNG. While it's a bit inconvenient to watchlist another page and look out for ip and spa harassment directed at the subject and the connected BLP, I think we can manage it. BusterD (talk) 03:17, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

BusterD, it's funny you say that. The source you're referring to, Nate Carpenter's review in Women & Language actually does discuss the harassment (the link is through a database, but I can email it to whoever wants it). I've found a number of other academic sources that I'll be adding to the article soon. What I'm finding is that even the comparatively few sources that discuss the video series in and of itself, do so alongside, or in the context of, discussion of the harassment. In a vacuum there may be enough to justify a separate article, but as of now it will just duplicate the main one and cover little if anything that's wouldn't be better placed there. In my opinion, at this stage we can do a better job covering both topics together, as the sources almost universally do.--Cúchullain /c 21:18, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Next Episode announced October 29th 2013

Just a little late the next episode appearing soon "ish". http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/65461672933/heres-a-quick-sneak-peek-at-the-next-episode-of So, maybe this series will finish in a couple of years and somebody can finally evaluate its academic value.

Nosepea68 (talk) 00:16, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Attempted redirect

I'm not sure we've sufficiently established page consensus to redirect or merge this material over to the BLP of Sarkeesian. I've specifically opposed it and it appears others (pagecreator and Diego) hold for this separate pagespace. I'd appreciate it if we didn't start a revert war over a redirect without gathering a clearer measurement. BusterD (talk) 00:41, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

About to do overhaul...

Hey all.

I will be doing an exhaustive overhaul to this article when I can make a schedule for it. I will remove "stuff" that has only value in BLP and has little to nothing to do with video series. Meanwhile do not think I am not monitoring that no "stuff" without real encyclopedic value is put to the article!

Nosepea68 (talk) 06:30, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

If you're going to edit this highly contentious article, you need to be able to string a sentence together in English, follow what the sources say, and resist your compulsion to disparage the subject. Excising whole sections without discussion, as you did here, is not productive.--Cúchullain /c 23:31, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Since the last time User:Nosepea68 edited the page an entire section was blanked, I asked that user to discuss changes here before making them. I encourage all users to discuss a way forward before wholesale stripping of cited content. I agree with User:Cuchullain that Nosepea68's tendency to minimize the importance of the subject doesn't indicate an encyclopedic view. BusterD (talk) 00:09, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Moving on with this

Hey,

I think the section "Harassment and response" should be only like synopsis in this article and the better explanation of it kept in the BLP and here a link to the section in BLP. Also in that section you should start that the harassment started prior to her funding ended, not sure if there's many RS to back it up, but at least on some (tv-videos) of her public appearances she said something like "I haven't even said anything yet.". I admit that's just from my memory and it's not infallible as you know.

Great thanks to User:Zero_Serenity for adding a bit more flesh on the bones in short summaries. I would like to add some myself, but I think I better not as I consider myself going biased there if I did. Thanks also to User:Cuchullain for moving redundant stuff from BLP to this article concentrating on the series itself.

Also I think the background section should be moved to BLP, with only a short summary in this article with a link to the BLP.

Thanks for bothering to read, not so sleep depraved this time, Nosepea68 (talk) 05:23, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

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