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Molon labe!

{{nowrap}} &  

Not disputing anything, but I wanted to know why you would prefer "{{nowrap|M. Daphne Kutzer}}" to "M. Daphne Kutzer" (or "{{nowrap|M. Daphne}} Kutzer"). Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:33, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

You're fixing a problem that doesn't exist. Why are you doing that? Eric Corbett 00:50, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm a busybody. Could you explain? Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:03, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Explain what? Eric Corbett 01:21, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Your preference—the subject of this thread. Curly Turkey (gobble) 01:28, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

You've yet to explain the problem you're trying to solve. Eric Corbett 01:53, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

The problem of trying to get a straight answer out of Eric Corbett. Curly Turkey (gobble) 03:11, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

I see, yet more of these personal attacks. Why not try answering my question? What is the problem you're trying to solve? Eric Corbett 03:33, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to've bothered you, Mr Corbett. I won't "personally attack" you with my questions again. Curly Turkey (gobble) 07:28, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

• (talk page stalker) I think a possible issue would be forcing line breaks after a person's full name would cause some serious whitespace in some resolutions, whereas forcing it only after the first name would have less chance of that. MOS:NBSP doesn't have a firm answer either way. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:20, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
  • Crisco: a reasonable explanation that is, unfortunately, unrelated to the question. While FAC reviewing The Coral Island, I added a couple of  s (I didn't replace any templates). Eric didn't like it, so he removed them—whatever, but the edit comment drew my interest: "I don't like that at all. If you think there's a problem (and I don't) then use the {{nowrap}} template". So posted the above question (at which point I'd noticed in the article there was a "{{nowrap|M. Daphne Kutzer}}", which is why I used it as an example). There was no actual disagreement—merely a question. Why Eric responded so evasively and ended up playing the "personal attack" card is a mystery I can live without solving—it's clear he won't answer the question. Curly Turkey (gobble) 07:28, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
    • I don't know what your question is. I prefer nowrap because her name (or whatever in the template) is clearly readable for an editor. The other is ugly, especially if more then two terms should not be separated. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:41, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
      • That's exactly the kind of answer I was hoping to get—whether it was a technical thing, an aesthetic preference, an accessibility thing, or whatever. If it were more than simply an aesthetic preference then I'd like to have been enlightened. From Eric's edit comment ("If you think there's a problem ... then use the {{nowrap}} template") it didn't sound like merely a preference. Curly Turkey (gobble) 08:33, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
        • I wouldn't call that aestethic: it's for clarity. For the same reason I try to get references to a separate section. Another editor can read the text better and can edit the references without having to search for them. For the same reason I like to offer the reader a you-know-what where key facts are easy to find without search ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:05, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
          • Sorry, I wasn't meaning to imply that your reasons were aesthetic. I was only trying to say that if Eric's reason was merely a preference than I could safely ignore it, but if it wasn't then it would give me something to think about. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:39, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

• A note from another fan of The Coral Island. Drmies (talk) 03:01, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

More tomorrow

Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:12, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

This seems to be the woman who got the coral jewelry. Maybe someone postdated her marriage too. :)Anythingyouwant (talk) 16:46, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Strange. I've just found a paper saying that it was the Duchess d'Aumale, which I just added to the article. Eric Corbett 16:57, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Right, I noticed your edit, and wanted to give you a wikilink to her article.Anythingyouwant (talk) 16:59, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, it's obviously the same person now I've read her article. But now I'm wondering who's got the date of her marriage correct; was it 1844 or 1845? Eric Corbett 17:02, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I would fudge: 1840s.  :)Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:09, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

This seems to give November 1844? Is that the Times obituary? SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:12, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

That is from the Times - I can link to it via my library card here or the cite is: The Times (London, England), Wednesday, Dec 08, 1869; pg. 9; Issue 26615 (which I expect you have access to anyway?) SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:23, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I've just had a look through The Times archive and found an account of the wedding published on 6 December 1844, so there can be little doubt that 1845 is wrong. Eric Corbett 19:00, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

It's interesting how if we make an error like that we're castigated, but not the authors of the academic books and papers we relied on. Eric Corbett 22:51, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

• True that. Instead we're expected to either find something conclusive, or leave a little wiggle room when sources disagree. That's more than many "experts" have to do. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:15, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

  And sources disagree far more often than one might imagine. It took me ages to come with a definitive number for the Pendle witches for instance, so many sources wanted it to be the magical number 13. Eric Corbett 23:22, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

  • Wow, humanity just can't overcome its prejudices. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:42, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

• Eric, thanks for handling matters while I was being AWOL, as you said. My apologies. You've done great work. But do ping me next time: I can be scatterbrained on occasion. Drmies (talk) 03:27, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

  No worries. Touch wood it's job done now. Eric Corbett 03:52, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks. Yes. I saw a red link in our article: it's red no more. Feel free to add a plot summary to The Gorilla Hunters. Drmies (talk) 04:20, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

  You knocked that up pretty sharpish! Before I could write a plot summary I'd have to read the book, but I don't think I'd enjoy it, so it's unlikely that I will. Eric Corbett 14:14, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

• That's my problem too. One reviewer on Goodreads said a similar thing--apparently they enjoyed it as a child but could never read it again. I found a few more articles in JSTOR that talk about the book and will continue to work on it some (certainly for DYK, but probably not for GA): it wasn't meaningless. Ha, I thought the same thing when we were working on The Coral Island as I'm thinking now: there is so much material in those articles for juicy sections in our articles on Victorian culture, but we're separating history and culture a bit much in important articles. Enjoy what's left of your weekend, Eric. Drmies (talk) 15:19, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

• Hope you enjoyed today, old person. :) Drmies (talk) 00:22, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

  Yes, I did. Went out for a nice meal with friends. Eric Corbett 00:28, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

• I'm five chapters into the monkey book; so far it's exactly as you'd expect. I linked some free versions in the EL section but am reading another, from somewhere else. Please feel free to improve the article: it should be easy. I'm nominating it for DYK shortly. In the meantime I got all these references that also mention a bunch of his other books. I'm thinking of churning out a bunch of stubs. Or, thanks a lot for adding some Scottish dude to my workload. Drmies (talk) 16:12, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

  Never any shortage of things to do. I've started labouring through Enid Blyton now, there's a heck of a lot of work needed there. Getting back to Ballantyne(ish) I'm surprised we don't have an article on coral jewellery, given its popularity in Victorian times and that there's an article on the Coral Jewellery Museum in Naples. Eric Corbett 17:25, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

  My grandmother had some; for my mother's generation it was already seriously old-fashioned. "Bloedkoraal" it was called, for the deep, dark red. She died last month; I wonder what happened to it. It probably went to my aunt Alice, the oldest of many--they were good Catholics--and the only one who stuck to the faith, and to the dress code of the previous era. Drmies (talk) 17:32, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

  I knew you couldn't leave those boys and me to our own devices, in the jungle. Thanks for your help. In the meantime, there's been an elephant hunt and a beautiful black beauty was saved from the "horrible superstitions" (the phrase occurs very frequently) of her tribe, who were about to execute her. Does this sound familiar? Three boys helping a civilized pair of natives (one of whom speaks English) to escape death so they can get married? Drmies (talk) 16:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

  Sounds very familiar, The Coral Island in a different setting. Eric Corbett 16:39, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

  Wouldn't have been fair to leave you and the boys to your own devices, as I know how you struggle with formatting citations. ;-) I've started work hacking away at Enid Blyton, whose books I loved as a kid. In fact when I came top of my class at primary school, aged seven, I was allowed to choose a Noddy book as my prize, and I think I may even have it somewhere still. Her story is rather a complicated one though, and after I'm done with my hacking there's quite a bit more material that needs to be added, so I'm waiting on a couple more sources. Why did I go looking for work? I don't need to go looking for work, I could just go around tagging articles as needing more citations like the other lazy beggars do, instead of trying to fix them. Eric Corbett 17:56, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Congratulations on promotion of the Coral Island article. (I will take payment in euros, yen, bucks, pounds, I don't care.)Anythingyouwant (talk) 20:41, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Nice one. Your input certainly helped to improve the article, so thanks for that. Eric Corbett 20:44, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Books & Bytes New Years Double Issue

Happy New Year, and welcome to a special double issue of Books & Bytes. We've included a retrospective on the changes and progress TWL has seen over the last year, the results of the survey TWL participants completed in December, some of our plans for the future, a second interview with a Wiki Love Libraries coordinator, and more. Here's to 2014 being a year of expansion and innovation for TWL!

Increased access to sources: 1500 editors signed up for 3700 free accounts, individually worth over $500,000, with usage increases of 400-600%

Deep networking: Built relationships with Credo, HighBeam, Questia, JSTOR, Cochrane, LexisNexis, EBSCO, New York Times, and OCLC

New pilot projects: Started the Misplaced Pages Visiting Scholar project to empower university-affiliated Misplaced Pages researchers

Developed community: Created portal connecting 250 newsletter recipients, 30 library members, 3 volunteer coordinators, and 2 part-time contractors

Tech scoped: Spec'd out a reference tool for linking to full-text sources and established a basis for OAuth integration

Broad outreach: Wrote a feature article for Library Journal's The Digital Shift; presenting at the American Library Association annual meeting

Interested?

If so, I think you'd be a good candidate. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 05:53, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

• That's a very interesting position. Eric, how are you with WP:MEDRS? I don't really understand it, so I wouldn't apply, but if you know how it works you'd probably be the best candidate available. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:59, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Looks like a good job for somebody, but not for me. I've got far too much else going on in the next six months. Eric Corbett 14:37, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

That's a damn shame. We need people with clue in these positions. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:04, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Cholmondeley Castle

Eric. Many thanks for the improvements and the review. I wish all reviewers were as helpful as you. Cheers. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 12:50, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I've been told that I am "at best a D-grade GA reviewer, with little interest in article quality". It's all in the eye of the beholder I suppose. Eric Corbett 21:23, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

And you say you never hold a grudge against anybody or are bothered about things which happened in the past...♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:02, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Your comment amuses me still. And if I'd held a grudge against you, would I have helped with Tiruchirappalli when you asked me to, for instance? Eric Corbett 13:16, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, I was judging based on the extent of the coverage of Jutland horse which is rather shorter than you'd expect for a GA on a major horse breed, but the quality and the review is fine of course.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:22, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm reminded that you tried to delist that the day after I'd passed it. Eric Corbett 13:44, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that was rather mean, but I've supported you on countless occasions since when I needn't have, and I believe you've also done the same in terms of helping with articles... If you still have a problem with it/me from that one incident then I'm sorry you feel that way. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:57, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't have a problem at all, and I think we've subsequently developed a good working relationship, which I hope will continue. Eric Corbett 14:05, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

We have indeed. We've all done things on wikipedia in the past that we'd probably do differently today which we'd rather forget about rather than be reminded of... It was wrong of me to conclude that of you based on my concern with the coverage of one article and obviously you know that it couldn't be further from the truth, but I just didn't like seeing you bring that up again, as amusing as it may now be. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:09, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Enid Blyton

Could you please take a look at Enid Blyton? People have made it full of cites to the Daily Mail and the section on dated attitudes and altered reprints seems to have been hijacked by Daily Mail readers. The Daily Mail is a British tabloid that is so right wing as to be almost comic, I wouldn't call it a reliable source on anything. Susan Grace Bellerby (talk) 12:35, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Just to add: the Daily Mail is a tabloid-style newspaper (distinguished from a tabloid-format newspaper like The Times ) so is doubly unreliable. Susan Grace Bellerby (talk) 13:33, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I live in the UK, so I'm quite familiar with the Daily Mail. Blyton's article certainly needs an awful lot of work, but I don't see much reliance on the Daily Mail. In fact the sourcing overall looks pretty sparse, and of generally low quality. Eric Corbett 13:35, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

It's the section about dated attitudes that seems to have been written by people that read that paper. There's too many attempts in that section to defend Blyton and not enough balance about the revisions. There's a cite to the Mail in that section ("Row faster, George! The PC meddlers are chasing us!") which cannot stay as the Mail does not meet reliable sources. I have my mother's 1970s Blyton reprints and there are already substantial revisions even in them to reflect "progressive" attitudes. It's not a new millenium thing to change the texts. Susan Grace Bellerby (talk) 13:44, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

If I was thinking of improving that article, I'd start by completely ignoring it and writing my own, from scratch. That's a view I formed only 5 seconds after looking at the current article. Parrot of Doom 17:49, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Agreed with Parrot and Eric, it's poor quality and would be best nuked and started from scratch. An author like Enid Blyton should have enough decent book sources to avoid using sources like the DM. I see quite a few newspaper sources though but I also don't see this overreliance on the DM.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:56, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

I might try rewriting at least a part of it and see how it goes. Eric Corbett 13:47, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

28,000 odd hits a month, it would certainly be worthwhile.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:34, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Not familiar with sfnp, what's the difference? I've finished with Blyton for now. Still needs a lot of work but it's at least improved for the time being.♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:13, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Certainly a lot better than it was only a few days ago. sfnp puts the publication year in brackets. Eric Corbett 14:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Phew, I think that's enough for today, all yours now until tomorrow! Her output was staggering, in the early 50s she must have penned a book every week or two. And if you also consider how many publications she also contributed to. OK the Noddy books aren't much. but the Famous Five books and many of her others were decent sized books which you'd expect would take months to write. She must have had an extremely rare talent in which the books practically wrote themselves. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:54, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Surveillance awareness day

You were supportive of the idea that Jehochman proposed: "A message is most effective when it matches the format of the media. We're an encyclopedia. On Feb 11, I suggest we fill our front page with articles, blurbs and news about mass spying and privacy. That will send a strong message, and help educate people. It's sort of like what we do on April 1, except serious instead of foolish."

Since this proposal received so much support, I and several others have done our best to begin the process of implementation. That said, the proposal is very controversial with Main Page insiders who have, understandably, objections that boil down to WP:NOTADVOCATE.

It's valuable to have feedback from people who oppose any deviation from the status quo, but we really need feedback from people who understood Jehochman idea, supported it, and could tell us whether we're succeeding in "implementing the vision" that Jehochman laid out and how to improve the proposal.

If you have the time, would you lend your view over at Misplaced Pages:Surveillance awareness day. If you want to see a list of custom content that could be available, we have a Arbitrary mockup #2, that shows lots of proposed content on one page.

Your feedback is most appreciated. --HectorMoffet (talk) 09:53, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

It's a silly idea, and I'm not interested in tilting at windmills. Eric Corbett 23:17, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Malleus Fatuorum

Please update your user page to explain your latest name change.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:31, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Have you actually read my user page? I don't feel the need to explain anything beyond what I already have. Eric Corbett 15:50, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

That name change was quite some time ago (in fact, almost 14,000 edits ago) and is fully explained in "About Me". If you wish to make such requests, please do the groundwork first and phrase your remark nicely. Drmies (talk) 16:10, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Tyntesfield

Hi Eric,

It looks like you've been involved in edits to the Tyntesfield article for some time - and have opinions about what needs to be done, anything you'd like to share would be helpful.

I've completed the initial cursory review and before I get into a much thorough review of the content and references, I thought I'd check in to find out what would be a good time for you. I plan on putting the article into {{in use}} for that period of time.

Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:39, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Whenever you like, as I'm just about to hit the sack. Eric Corbett 03:43, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

New Brunswick Theological Seminary GA Review

Eric--just wanted to thank you again for helping out at the NBTS article with your copyedit and comments on the GA review. Between Dr. Blofeld's review, and your additional comments, I'm confident to say the article is in very good shape. I appreciate your help.--ColonelHenry (talk) 03:50, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I see it's a GA now, so well done. Eric Corbett 16:38, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

• Yes it is. Thank you again for your suggestions and help. In the next few months, I'm going to get NBTS read for FAC (I have a few articles in queue for FAC), so I started a peer review to give a few ideas on what could bring the article up to FA quality. I'd venture to say it's a lot closer now, because of your commments and the work of Dr. Blofeld on the GA review, but if you have some additional thoughts, the peer review is located here: Misplaced Pages:Peer review/New Brunswick Theological Seminary/archive1. I appreciate all your help.--ColonelHenry (talk) 20:20, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

  Good luck, but don't rush to FAC, it's quite a big step up. Eric Corbett 20:22, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it would need a lot of work I think. There's no rush to do so...♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:51, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Manchester

Hi Eric, I don't know if somebody's already mentioned it, but there's a meetup in Manchester on Sunday (the 26th), at the Waterhouse (Wetherspoon's). It would be good to see you—your last appearance is still something of a "did you hear about...?" among the Manchester crowd. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:58, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

I might well pop along to that. Eric Corbett 21:10, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

I hope old Sitush will be well enough to attend. Unfortunately I'm in church this Sunday, or I would join you all. Drmies (talk) 00:21, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Can you stream it live for those of us on the other side of the pond?  :-D Montanabw 02:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Eric, I'm getting you a pint, so be there if you can. Drmies (talk) 19:40, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Very generous, but I'm afraid I won't be able to make it after all. Maybe the next one ... Eric Corbett 21:25, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Nothing serious, I hope. Drmies (talk) 21:42, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

No, no, just something I'd forgotten about. Eric Corbett 21:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Shame you couldn't make it. The next one is likely to be mid-March (the exact date will be sorted out closer to the time). Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:09, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye out for that. Hopefully Sitush will be back to something like normal then as well. Eric Corbett 21:02, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

FA congratulations once more

Just a quick note to congratulate you on the promotion of The Coral Island to FA status recently. I know you know all about WP:TFAR and the "pending" list, so this is just a reminder to use them as and when suits you. Many thanks. I have a rough idea about the chances of you nominating something at TFAR (flying pigs not voting for Christmas over your dead body, or something like that) but I hope there's no harm in reminding you, and your TPSers, that TFA needs something every day... Bencherlite 23:40, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

• Congrats Eric! Well done! Drmies (talk) 00:20, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, well done Eric and Drmies, a great novel and article.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:31, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Ping Eric and/or TPSers

A very good FAC by User:Mike Cline needs some solid reviewers: Rainbow trout. I peer-reviewed the article, so I'm too involved to be a reviewer. Montanabw 18:24, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Wells Cathedral

Hi, Following your oppose a couple of weeks ago on Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Wells Cathedral/archive1 a lot more work has been done on prose - both your examples and many others. I wondered if you had the time or inclination to take another look and see if you feel it has improved?— Rod 20:57, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

As Rod says, much has been done. I've made as many edits (both good and evil) as my meager skills will allow. Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 03:24, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't think the article has improved very much, and in some respects has even gone backwards. Take this for instance: "The tower was later braced internally with arches by William Joy. Did William Joy simply build the arches for someone else to install, or did he install the arches? And for reasons I'm sure you're aware of I decline to take any further part in the review. Eric Corbett 16:40, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

FAC

Eric, if you have time and will, could you take a look at my latest FAC? It's Pedro Afonso, Prince Imperial of Brazil. Since it's a small article, I doubt it will take much of your time. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 00:23, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

FYI

Just so you know why this has all that detail that it shouldn't. I'm not anywhere near being an FA editor. A year ago, I cleaned up this article from a very bad state, took it through Peer Review, GA Review and A-class review. Along the way, many, many people in those reviews offered a lot of opinions/suggestions as to what was needed. It was confusing to me, but it passed all those reviews. And through all that, I was dealing with one of the most prolific disruptive editors I've ever come across. Whatever it is at this point, I don't have the eye to correct the flaws. That's why we're asking you. For me personally, I give you a free hand to do whatever you think is necessary. And I sure hope you do. The subject matter should be FA, but I'm not the editor who can hone it to that level. — Maile (talk) 01:01, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Two things: (1) Please let me know if there is anything, now or in the future, I can do for you in return for your help on this. (2) Would you be the one to nominate this for FAC? I've never been through the process. — Maile (talk) 01:48, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

It's easy enough to nominate an article at FAC, and Sandy will be able to guide you through the process if you need help. Eric Corbett 02:49, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

OK. Just please let me know when you've done all the editing you think you can do to the article. — Maile (talk) 12:30, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

It's probably going to be a few days yet. Eric Corbett 12:36, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Don't take this the wrong way Maile, but in my opinion there's nowhere near enough coverage of his film career to constitute a featured article and I'd oppose it if you nominated, even if the coverage of his military career looks very good.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:36, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I was about to make the same point. Masses on his military career, probably too much, but hardly anything on his film career. Eric Corbett 12:39, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

That's because the film career is a separate article, which happened a year ago. — Maile (talk) 12:44, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

What I'd do Maile is create a Military career of Audie Murphy and move it there. Then work on cutting down coverage in the main article and then build a fairly comprehensive film career section to balance it all out.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld, maybe one or both of you could take this where it should be. My talent is smaller. Audie Murphy filmography, at the moment, is GA and about to appear on DYK tomorrow morning. At least one time, Audie Murphy will make it to the front page of Misplaced Pages. Audie Murphy honors and awards is currently at FLC. And the last year has followed a disruptive editor pattern on the main article, so you know it's lurking out there. As soon as the article reaches another level, that editor comes in and tries to take it back to the level it was pre-improvement in 2012. The why of that is on the talk page of the first article that user ever edited. — Maile (talk) 13:02, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Audie Murphy filmography looks too long to be a "filmography". I think it should be moved to Film career of Audie Murphy. Most people looking for a filmography simply want a list of films so it's a bit misleading. By the looks of it your "filmography" article has the sort of content which needs to be added, although like the military career a bit too detailed for the main article. I'm rather busy right now but if you hold off on the FAC I'll try to see what I can do in a week or two.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:12, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Funny you should bring this up. GA and FLC talk pages discussed whether it was a list or an article, and Film career of Audie Murphy was discussed as a possible title. As long as the DYK happens tomorrow, I'm in no hurry about the rest. I'm going to email you right now so you will also have that contact info on me if you need it in the future. — Maile (talk) 13:20, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it's funny or a coincidence Maile that others brought it up, it definitely has too much prose to be a list and should be moved to film career if there are no objections.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:38, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Can't imagine there would be any objections. Does there need to be a talk page notice about the proposed move, or just move it? I'd rather wait until after the DYK runs tomorrow. — Maile (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Wait for the DYK and when it's over just move it. Eric Corbett 15:55, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

It's becoming very clear that this article needs a good deal more than just a bit of copyediting. Eric Corbett 15:43, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Probably. I've been trying to find Admin-level guidance on this article for the last year. — Maile (talk) 15:48, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

By and large, with rather few exceptions, admins don't know any more about article development than you do. Quite possibly even less in fact. Their job isn't to develop content but to discipline us unwashed masses. Eric Corbett 15:53, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, well. Live and learn. — Maile (talk) 15:57, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

My apologies, I moved it before realizing it was in the DYK queue. It's probably not too late to quickly change the links though.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:58, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

No worry. Minor thing. I already changed the link on DYK. — Maile (talk) 16:03, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

You should have come to see the Dr and I sooner. Eric Corbett 16:26, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

That much is obvious right now. — Maile (talk) 16:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

It's going to take a while to get Audie's article in shape, so I'm afraid you need to be patient. Eric Corbett 20:36, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm going to pass on Murphy I think, good luck with it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

MOS:IMAGES

I have opened a formal RfC at Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Images#Request for comment on the deprecation of left-aligned images under sub-headings,an issue on which you commented in previous discussion there. DrKiernan (talk) 09:54, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Request for input

You previously reviewed HubSpot at Talk:HubSpot/GA1.

2nd ongoing review at Talk:HubSpot/GA2.

I'd like to get your take at Talk:HubSpot/GA2#Prior_GA_Review on your thoughts on the article now versus your recollection of it when you previously reviewed it?

Thank you for your time,

— Cirt (talk) 17:13, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Eric Corbett, any thoughts about this? — Cirt (talk) 14:59, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

It's certainly a substantial improvement over the version I declined to list, but I don't think it's quite there. Consider this for instance: "Under 'Weaknesses' the reviewer said 'it has more breadth than depth.' It said the lack of customization and design tools can be limiting, in which the reviewer is suddenly being referred to as "it". Or this: "HubSpot customers install a piece of JavaScript on their website". So all of Hubspot's customers share a single web site? Or "The grading tools are written mostly in PHP, but as of 2011, it was being increasingly transitioned to Python. What exactly is the "it" referring to there? And why would anyone except an employee be interested to read about the bonuses on offer for referring a successful applicant? Overall I think it needs some tidying up, and I still wouldn't list it in its present state. Eric Corbett 15:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your input, I'll take it under strong consideration. — Cirt (talk) 16:25, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.217.115 (talk) 03:47, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

So I was edit warring but you weren't? How does that work? Eric Corbett 12:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I didn't make the claim you attribute to me; it seems you've not read my comments, in this case at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Eric_Corbett_reported_by_User:86.141.217.115_.28Result:_Stale.29

However, I followed normal protocol to attempt to resolve the problem you had with my edits, despite my ignorance of Misplaced Pages procedures. You refused to follow normal protocol and just carried on reverting without engaging in the discussion I had started.

Misplaced Pages:DR#Follow_the_normal_protocol

Once more, I urge you to engage in discussion, which is on-going at:

Talk:Manchester_Mark_1#What.27s_wrong_with_this_description_of_storage.3F_.28attempting_to_resolve_disagreement.29

86.141.217.115 (talk) 14:16, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I haven't read your comments anywhere, as I have absolutely no interest in anything you might have to say. Eric Corbett 14:46, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for making your position clear. I shall attempt to follow established procedures in dealing with this situation.

86.141.217.115 (talk) 15:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Pity you didn't attempt to do that in the first place. Eric Corbett 15:38, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Following established procedure in dealing with your repeat reversions is exactly what I did do in the first place. Unfortunately, you decided not to engage in the discussion I initiated on the relevant talk page.

86.141.217.115 (talk) 15:43, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

You have a singularly one-sided view of the situation, and I really don't think there's anything to be gained by you continuing to post here, so please don't. Eric Corbett 15:47, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you again for making your position clear. I wish to resolve our dispute in a civilized and courteous fashion, and I'd like to do so without personal remarks.

Once again, I urge you to engage on Talk:Manchester_Mark_1#What.27s_wrong_with_this_description_of_storage.3F_.28attempting_to_resolve_disagreement.29

86.141.217.115 (talk) 15:59, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I've added my support for Eric's version (more or less), but then I thought "hang on if I could do that in five minutes, it would take Eric, what, one or two tops, since he did the FA for it." Would at least stop the ANI peanut gallery turning up. Ritchie333 09:59, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

I've lost interest in the article, and the silly comparison of the Mk I's use of its magnetic drum with virtual memory. I'll probably look for another early computer article to waste my time on. Eric Corbett 15:52, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

PDP-11 might be a worthy candidate - it claims to be C class but has two tags in the opening paragraph, and there a bunch of general "history of computing" books online that fact check it. Ritchie333 16:15, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

That's a pretty yucky article that really needs a complete rewrite. Think I'll leave that one alone. Eric Corbett 16:26, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Technical gobbledygook, yeah. Still, it's easier to understand than a lot of the mathematics articles we have.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:38, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I've yet to see a decent mathematics article. Eric Corbett 23:02, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I was pretty good at maths at school even though I disliked it but most of the articles on here I really struggle to understand anything written in them. They're impressive technically, but if they're meant to be teaching ordinary people they're really way off being informative and encyclopedic.♦ Dr. Blofeld 23:23, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

One of the things on my bucket list is to write a comprehensible maths article. I suppose it'll be a battleground for some, but perhaps a wake-up call for others. Eric Corbett 00:43, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Check out Discrete Morse theory for instance... What makes it even more amusing is that it tries to claim it makes sense and is simple by saying "The division here makes sense". Sure it does.... To 0.0001% of the world population maybe.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:08, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

As far as other computing articles go that might appeal to some of you lot, there is the concept of a data structure which contains a string with its length prepended and a null character appended, which I have seen quaintly referred to (possibly within internal Microsoft development) as a FuckedString, but I don't think there are enough proper sources to make an article out of it. Ritchie333 07:54, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Never heard the term fucked string before. Strings with a length prefix were called Pascal strings in my day, and commonly used in IBM datastores since at least OS/360. In fact we have an article on them here. No point I can see in having a length prefix and a terminating string though. Eric Corbett 10:08, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

There's two reasons. Firstly it was the only way you could put a Pascal string in the original K&R C at compile time (ie: char* s = "\0x05Hello") - the compiler wastes a byte putting the null character in without you asking for it, so it's "fucked". Secondly it allows backwards compatibility - the BSTR type used in Visual Basic up to version 6 (and still extant as VBA in Excel) is a fucked string that gives you a pointer to the character buffer (with the length held before it in memory) so you can call Windows API calls that expect C style strings easily. Ritchie333 10:46, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

They're not really good reasons for doing it though, as one of the potential problems that length prefixes are intended to address is that the string can't contain whatever delimiting character is chosen. Eric Corbett 11:58, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

I have one of those on an old guitar of mine, the G string just won't stay in tune!♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:06, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Among or amongst

Seeing as I defer to you on points of grammar, whuch is correct here I wrote 'amongst' but I am often reverted around the place, so perhaps I need some clarity. Personally, I think amongst sounds right, but what do I know?  Giano  10:12, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Either is correct, but unless followed by a word beginning with a vowel, such as in "amongst us", among is more usual these days. The logic I believe that it's slightly easier to say "amongst us" than it is to say "among us". So in your example I'd have a slight preference for "among". But whichever, there's absolutely no difference in meaning, so it doesn't really matter much. Eric Corbett 12:51, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

@Tim riley: weaned me off using amongst and whilst a while back, he'd be a good person to explain..♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:01, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I think I shall always say amongst before a vowel, but I think I always say it in speech too, but now I've started to think about it, I can't be sure if I do or I don't. Funny that.  Giano  12:02, 31 January 2014 (UTC)→

Agapemonites

Hi, I know in the past you have taken an interest in some of "quirkier" articles on wp and I wondered if I could ask you (or your talk page stalkers) to take a look at Agapemonites. As you know I write a fair amount about buildings (particularly those in Somerset) but this story also involves sex, religion and law - which I'm less comfortable writing about.— Rod 14:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Looks interesting, I'll certainly take a look at that. Eric Corbett 15:03, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Commas...

Eric, if you've got a moment, I'd value your opinion on this edit . We've been debating elsewhere whether the commas are correct - and if memory serves, you're pretty good on British English and commas. What I was checking was whether these commas are now all correctly present? My instinct was originally that they were unnecessary/superfluous, but I may well be wrong! Many thanks in advance, Hchc2009 (talk) 15:15, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I've replied on your talk page. Eric Corbett 15:49, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Much appreciated - thanks! Hchc2009 (talk) 17:16, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Only a Brit can do this justice

Hey Eric and all TPSers of Eric. Just put up Thunder (mascot) for GAN. Given that this article touches upon the Super Bowl, I think a reviewer who doesn't give a flying rip about American football should do the review. Any of you Brits would probably do nicely. Just saying. Yes, of course it's about a horse. It's one of "my" articles. LOL! Montanabw 19:24, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

American football is a complete mystery to me, I've never been to a horse race, and betting is even more mysterious to me than American football. So I probably wouldn't be your ideal candidate. Eric Corbett 20:49, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Luckily, this one has nothing to do with betting or horse racing. It's a sports mascot. But a feel-good story about a fuzzy animal, so maybe you are too curmudgeonly to be tempted? (LOL!) Montanabw 22:27, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Am I curmudgeonly? Yes, sometimes. But did I come here to write about American war heroes or sports mascots? No. Eric Corbett 22:52, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, it's just a GAN review. Figured that if you DGAF, that's as good as neutral.  ;-) Montanabw 00:56, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Can I tempt you?

Hi Eric, I decided to move from interesting-but-uncontroversial events into something much more controversial, and I've just re-written Operation Flavius (you might remember Death on the Rock, which I'm also working on). I've opened an A-class review at MilHist to get some feedback and then I'm planning to take it to FAC I wondered if you fancied having a look. Any input on the talk page, the ACR or the eventual FAC would be really appreciated (input from TPSs also very welcome)—because it's a potential hornets' nest, I'd really like as many neutral pairs of eyes to read it as possible. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:48, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

HJ, does that shell garage have a QRpedia code on the petrol pump LOL?♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:35, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I have no great regard for MilHist or its A-class reviews. Eric Corbett 22:39, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Somehow I doubt it's something the Gibraltar government would consider putting up the codes for given the nature of the content, but it's perfectly legitimate. It looks a commendable expansion to me HJ. Obtaining photographs for such articles would really help it though, but finding free ones is surely near impossible.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:44, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I'd estimate I've spent more than 75 per cent of my time here on WP contributing to articles I have no interest in whatsoever. I've got no idea whether Operation Flavius is in that category or not, as I haven't looked at it, but I need to be allowed the space and time to do what I want to do, not what others would like me to do. Eric Corbett 22:59, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm very reluctant to get involved in any article involving the IRA, so kudos to you for being braver than me. But let me ask you one question about "enquiries from keys found on Farrell led authorities to a second car". In what sense can you interrogate a key? Eric Corbett 03:51, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Enquiries leading from keys? (a bit clunky) I suppose these days the chip would be read and checked against a database (driver drops their key and the chip pops out- a passing dog licks it up- the driver is now forced to drive around with a strange dog in the passenger seat). Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 07:44, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Why not just "keys found on Farrell ..."? Eric Corbett 10:18, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes- further down the article it refers to enquiries made after the keys were found- there's no detail as to how the enquiries were carried out. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 10:48, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks gents, I've changed it slightly. Eric, no worries—I thought it might be something you might be interested in is all. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:10, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

I'll make one comment - the article doesn't say anything about whether Death on the Rock had any influence on the Broadcasting Act 1990 and the demise of Thames Television as a licensee. Opinions can range from "none at all" to a conspiracy theorist's field day, but at least there should be some mention of it. Ritchie333 12:50, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Ritchie, I've seen this mentioned in passing, but nothing to suggest that Death on the Rock contributed to it (Thames' then-Director of Programmes said somewhere that Thames cocked up the bidding process for the franchise, and Roger Bolton, editor of This Week wrote in his memoirs that he didn't think Death on the Rock contributed to it directly). I'm working on that article at the moment, so I'll look into it some more. Thanks, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:10, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Q

Hey Eric, maybe you or one of your visitors can help. Sippi is writing a report on John Tyler (what luck! fascinating character!). His article is a GA. Throughout, "Vice President" is capitalized; if I read WP:JOBTITLES correctly, it's only to be capitalized if it points to a specific person occupying the office, but in the case of "Tyler became the first Vice President to succeed..." (opening sentence of the second paragraph) that seems tenuous. In the following sentence, "He was also the first person to serve as President", "president" is certainly used generically. Right? Thanks for the help. (Oh, when I point out something on Misplaced Pages, she asks, "did you write it?" I'm kinda proud of that.) Drmies (talk) 15:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

You've probably already seen what the MoS has to say here. As you say, it depends on what "Vice President" is referring to, and in your example of "Tyler became the first Vice President ...", vice president is clearly referring to the position, not to a particular vice president, so it ought not to be capitalised. I think though that some people would always capitalise Vice President or President out a misguided deference for the position. Not me though. Eric Corbett 16:10, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Ha, that sounds like it would be your opinion, yes. And I agree. I do wonder if that section in the MOS actually states that US capitalization (and possibly hyphenation) is different for those positions (and others?) than for others. Well, I made her go through and capitalize her instances, which were clearly to his position. Tyler was actually not that boring of a president and had some balls as well. She needs a picture too, and wanted one of him when he was six and fell into a lake or something like that. No such luck on Commons. Thanks Eric! Drmies (talk) 17:53, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Poor Sippi, as if having teachers at school criticising her work isn't bad enough. ;-) Only a matter of time I suppose though before Administrator is capitalised here on WP, out of deference for the position of course. Eric Corbett 18:42, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

One potential problem I see though is that some will complain about terms such as "vice president" or "king" being inconsistently capitalised, which is why I would rarely capitalise those terms unless followed immediately by a name, but they can burn in Hell. I bet Sippi's teacher will raise the issue for instance. Eric Corbett 18:52, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

• Thanks, Prospero. (That was simple!) Admin should be capitalized, of course, and a second rank installed without the capital, for those who've been brought up or had a block overturned more than five times. Sippi got points taken off last year for, I think, correctly using an appositive. If I weren't convinced, from teaching Advanced English Grammar, of the insufficiency of grammar education among English teachers, having a child in school would have done it immediately. Well, thanks for your help, twice now in 24 hours. If you want to drive editors away you'll have to try a bit harder. Did you hear any reports about the Manchester meetup? I want to hear who came penniless, who went home with whom, and who got kicked out of the mead hall. And if anyone went to see Sitush or heard from him. Drmies (talk) 20:21, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

• I remember winning an argument with my third-grade teacher over how many syllables were in "California" (I said 4, she said 5 - she was, I think, originally from the south). Don't get me started on this topic! As for Tyler, the "Accidental President," he is, I believe, the only president who was not honored in Washington, DC at the time of his death, which occurred during the Civil War, as he had supported the Confederacy. Montanabw 22:08, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Sports years

This has been hammered out at WT:MOSDATE before, sports years are displayed in the infobox as 1961–1964 and not 1961–64, this is to differentiate them from sports seasons which are written as 1961–62, 1961–63 etc. I'd invite you to revert yourself at Dave Worthington please. Please also read WP:BRD. GiantSnowman 18:35, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

And I invite you to take your nonsense elsewhere. Local project guidelines do not override the MoS. Eric Corbett 18:38, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but as I've said, this was discussed at the MOS talk page! GiantSnowman 18:48, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Interesting use of tense there. As far as I can see it's being discussed, without having yet come to any conclusion. Now, are you going to revert yourself? Eric Corbett 19:03, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Kudos on the equivalent of 'I know you are, so what am I?' there. The discussion I am talking about is an older one, as I participated in it a few months ago. GiantSnowman 19:09, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

But as I said, it's being discussed on the talk page. How hard is that to understand? Eric Corbett 19:13, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

But as I said, it has already 'been discussed i.e. consensus is already in place. It might change, it might not, but until it does you should not make such poor edits. GiantSnowman 19:16, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

"Poor edits"? Rest assured that I will make every reasonable effort in the future to avoid you and any article you have contributed to. Eric Corbett 19:23, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject Freedom of speech

• WP:WikiProject Freedom of speech

There is a WikiProject about Freedom of speech, called WP:WikiProject Freedom of speech. If you're interested, here are some easy things you can do:

1. List yourself as a participant in the WikiProject, by adding your username here: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Freedom_of_speech#Participants.
2. Add userbox {{User Freedom of speech}} to your userpage, which lists you as a member of the WikiProject.
3. Tag relevant talk pages of articles and other relevant pages using {{WikiProject Freedom of speech}}.
4. Join in discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Freedom of speech.
5. Notify others you think might be interested in Freedom of speech to join the WikiProject.

Thank you for your interest in Freedom of speech, — Cirt (talk) 19:19, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Your revert at IEC 60320

Please see this section in the talk page. Thanks. Jeh (talk) 21:13, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Why? Ignorance is ignorance. Eric Corbett 21:37, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Profumo affair

Hi, I've been working on the Profumo affair from the 1960s. I reckon you would have been pretty young at the time, but you might – just – remember it (as indeed I do, just). That's not true of many WP editors; if you have the odd moment to comment at the peer review, I'd be very grateful. Brianboulton (talk) 21:51, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Hey, I remember it well - I was 13 at the time. I've made one change to the article so far - Christine Keeler was a topless dancer not a topless model. Despite its name Tit-Bits was a mainstream magazine and there were no topless photos in magazines you could buy at newsagents in 1963. Richerman (talk) 22:37, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I was about the same age as Richerman when the scandal broke, but I hardly remember it all. Never took much interest, as my hormones were running rampant at the time and attracting my attention elsewhere. Lydia, where are you today? Eric Corbett 22:44, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

She's probably on a beach somewhere with Alette Postma. And Sandra--wait, I forgot her last name. Drmies (talk) 22:59, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

It's a strange thing when I think back, given the modern obsession with paedophilia. She was twelve and I was thirteen or fourteen, yet she was a goddess as far as I was concerned ... anyway, back to Profumo. I'll be happy to take a look. Eric Corbett 23:20, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

• "Ik was zestien, en jij was achtentwintig..." ("I was sixteen, and you were twenty-eight") Drmies (talk) 15:21, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Good grief, you guys are old enough to be the grandfathers of some of the child admins on here :-]♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:17, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I guess I am! I remember the affair well. It happened soon after we moved to Cheshire; I had just left a job at St Stephen's Hospital in Fulham where Stephen Ward was finally taken. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 12:40, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I think Profumo has to be one of the most notorious scandals in British history. Thanks Brian for taking the initiative.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:48, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

I was 10. I founded a secret Christine Keeler Appreciation Society (membership 3) at my school – we called it KAPS to mislead the staff. We drew insignia on our satchels in the shape of a heart, with "KAPS" in the middle. Then some creep prefect informed on us, the society was banned (but we had grown out of it by then anyway). Eric & others, I hope you will find time read the article, anyway. Brianboulton (talk) 16:01, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

 Drmies likes this.

• I can help source it; Andrew Marr discusses it in his History of Modern Britain, if that's any help. --John (talk) 16:47, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Huh, I should have looked first. It's already well sourced. Maybe I can help in some other way. --John (talk) 16:49, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
    • If you have access to any of the sources you could rewrite that bit that says "Christine Keeler, born in 1942 from a humble background" - that's a terrible mangling of the English language. She could have been born in humble circumstances maybe but I don't like this use of 'humble' anyway. I've found some references on the WWW that say she never knew her father as he abandoned the family during WWII and she was brought by her mother and her stepfather in a converted railway carriage. I've found a reliable source here for some of that but not the bit about her father, although I expect it will be in the other books used. Richerman (talk) 18:58, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
      • I'll have a look in Marr later tonight. The Mail source leaps out to me as one to upgrade. Sorry Eric, we should discuss this at article talk really and not here. --John (talk) 19:57, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Inchdrewer Castle

On 4 February 2014, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Inchdrewer Castle, which you created or substantially expanded. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Inchdrewer Castle. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Allen3  16:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

DYK for George Ogilvy, 3rd Lord Banff

On 4 February 2014, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article George Ogilvy, 3rd Lord Banff, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Allen3  16:51, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I made a total of four minor edits, that's all. Eric Corbett 17:00, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, Eric, it was me who had your name added as this ended up being part and parcel of the Inchdrewer nomination. SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:05, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

No need to apologise, I was just puzzled as to how I got credit for something I hardly touched. Eric Corbett 17:10, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks - it's just I do feel it's only fair that your (much appreciated) help is recognised, even if the acknowledgement of it is only in a small way. Ogilvy ended up being rather cobbled together as the initial DYK reviewer suggested a stub should be done for him as part of the hook. It still has a lot more work to do on it yet so something else to add to my to do list! SagaciousPhil - Chat 17:23, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

If your to do list is anything like mine you'll never get to the end of it. Speaking of which I've got to finish off the tiling in the hall this evening. At least that'll be one thing I can cross off. Eric Corbett 17:36, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for keeping an eye on these last night - the 'citation needed' and then '(see below)' edits were rather ... odd. SagaciousPhil - Chat 10:09, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Fuck

There's a big debate going on at WP:TFAR about the suitability of showcasing this article on the main page. Which seems a little strange to me given that PoD and I had Gropecunt Lane on the main page slot four years ago. I've got a suggestion: transfer the management of WP from the Californian pansies to the north of England, where we call a spade a fucking shovel. Eric Corbett 18:57, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I made my statement there early, for freedom of speech. Remember lynching as TFA, with an image featured on this talk? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:15, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I do. That was a pretty horrific image. Eric Corbett 19:18, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Agree. Now compare, in disbelief (pictured here), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:28, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Nice dramatic picture. I'm afraid though that Wagner far exceeds my attention span. Eric Corbett 19:36, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I use the picture to make the point of disbelief when seeing something kafkaesque, like mentioned today to Giano, or on the Wagner talk in May, right after the discussion of Wagnerian proportions (including "treachery of images"), --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:49, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Cast off your chains

You know how Canada has a maple leaf, New Zealand a silver fern, and America a whatever it has - I have been thinking - the Misplaced Pages freedom movement ought to have a grotty whitebeam leaf as symbol of the oppression and lack of choices under which we labour. It coudld be flown/grown on thousands of pages.  Giano  10:02, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

weed: "A herbaceous plant not valued for use or beauty, growing wild and rank, and regarded as cumbering the ground or hindering the growth of superior vegetation"

And become a weed for our dear cuddly blocking admins to cull --Epipelagic (talk) 11:47, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Why not poison ivy? It might look good from a distance, but as soon as you try to do anything with it... Intothatdarkness 21:30, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Image size

From your edit summary on "Little Moreton Hall" it seems to me that you do not appear to be aware of the guideline at Misplaced Pages:Picture_tutorial#Thumbnail_sizes, which says "Lead images should usually be no wider than "300px" ("upright=1.35")". Snowman (talk) 21:29, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

It appears to me that you don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. Go try and find your dictionary and look up the word usually. Eric Corbett 21:31, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

My I say that I think you could have phrased that better. See also Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style/Images#How_to_place_an_image, which says "Lead images should usually be no wider than "upright=1.35" ("300px")." I would say that the word "should" here implies on obligation. Snowman (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

But "usually" implies that there may or will be exceptions to that obligation. If it was a fixed obligation, "usually" would not be used in that sentence. Intothatdarkness 22:29, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

There may be exceptions, but I do not see any reasons to make an exception of the size of image of this building. Snowman (talk) 22:43, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

You may not, but the policy clearly allows for it. And that means he's able to use the larger size until you drum up a consensus on that article saying he's wrong. Just how things work here. Intothatdarkness 22:55, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

The guidelines says that the info-box image should not be larger than 300px and that it what goes here. It is implied that the guidelines have a consensus. Snowman (talk) 23:18, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

The guidelines say no such thing. Eric Corbett 23:44, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Believe me Snowman, I could have phrased that to far more accurately express my contempt for your position. Consider yourself one of the lucky ones. You need to consider the whole sentence, not just dwell on individual words, difficult as that may be for some. Eric Corbett 22:35, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• I see no justification for using your use of TW revert of my edit; see your edit. Snowman (talk) 00:55, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

  There are clearly many things you can't see. Eric Corbett 01:14, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

I've thought for a long time that "improvements" to featured articles should have to gain consent before they are implemented. Isn't it odd that editors who have never written one always think they know best. Odd too that with so much drivel they only want to improve what's already good when there's millions of articles needing attention. PS that's an excellent photograph of Little Moreton Hall. J3Mrs (talk) 11:32, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

We have enough cliques already, without inventing an "Article Guardian" hat. Changes already (per BRD) require consensus if they're to stay. Transient changes aren't a problem (even if wrong), we just revert and move on.

There are also the problems that Good Article doesn't always mean a good article: it will have the sections in the right order and probably decent copy-editing, but completeness and accuracy aren't checked well by the GA process. Even FA doesn't mean infallible, yet raising this with the person who OWNs that FA star all too often becomes a personal battle between an established editor invested heavily in the prestige and a new set of outside eyeballs with something content-based to improve. Guess which one is already the regular winner? Andy Dingley (talk) 12:51, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

This question (and the infobox) was extensively discussed at talk, and I think in the FAC, and the larger version has a strong consensus - though personally I still think it too small. Johnbod (talk) 13:01, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

BLP sanction notification.

Your contributions to User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#A_a_day_of_kindness.2C_fairness_and_understanding have violated the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy for the following reason: If you post any further material that can be construed as violating WP:BLP/WP:BDP, I will be banning you from that discussion for its duration, enforced by block if necessary.. Please read the policy carefully, and avoid making future edits which violate it. Remember that Misplaced Pages articles can affect real people's lives. We have an ethical and legal responsibility to ensure that biographical content is written with the greatest care and attention to verifiability, neutrality and avoiding original research, particularly if it is contentious. Consider this your only warning, made pursuant to the requirements of this Arbitration remedy. Further edits in violation of policy will result in special enforcement sanctions, which could include restrictions on reverts or other specified behavior, bans from editing any BLP or BLP-related page or set of pages, blocks of up to one year in length, or any other measures which may be considered necessary. Kevin Gorman (talk) 05:58, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

What are you, an idiot? How can I be under a BLP sanction for commenting on someone who's dead? Eric Corbett 06:05, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

BLP policy also applies in the case of recent deaths, and suicides are mentioned as a specific example. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:09, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) You live in your world and I'll live in the real world. Have you read the discussion that Gorman takes such exception to? Are we all to become psychiatric nurses? Eric Corbett 06:16, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Show some common decency Eric. If you need to rant, rant here. Don't gravedance on Jimbo's talkpage about a recent suicide victim. Kevin Gorman (talk) 06:18, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Why don't you just shut the fuck up and think about the real issue here? Eric Corbett 06:21, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

You do realize that if you weren't Malleus you would've been blocked a dozen times over for this talk page section alone, right? Just stop participating in that one specific talk page section that you've already said you don't care about, and there will be no further drama. Kevin Gorman (talk) 06:25, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Why should the fact that I once edited under the name of Malleus make any difference? Eric Corbett 06:40, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I still frequently call you Malleus in the same way that I still frequently call Bwilkins Bwilkins rather than Dangerous Panda. The point stands: if you were any other editor you would be blocked for the personal attacks you've launched on this page, as well as for your conduct on Jimbo's page.Kevin Gorman (talk) 06:45, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

What personal attacks? On what pages? Eric Corbett 06:55, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't have the time to make a full list, but referring to another editor as a 'fucking idiot' in an edit summary as well as telling an editor to shut the fuck up would get pretty much anyone who isn't you blocked. Do you not consider the phrase 'fucking idiot' a violation of WP:NPA somehow?... Kevin Gorman (talk) 07:09, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

No, I don't. If you object to being referred to as a fucking idiot then stop behaving like one. And remind me. On which article page or article talk page did I violate your hallowed BLP/BDP policy? I realise that you scrotes go searching for any excuse to have me banned, and quite possibly one day you'll succeed. But not today. Eric Corbett 14:18, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I have no desire to get you banned, Eric. You're a terrific content contributor and a great copyeditor (as you just proved on one of my recent unpolished articles,) which is why you don't get blocked for WP:NPA violations like anyone else would (and yes, calling me a fucking idiot is an NPA violation.) I want to see you continue to edit Misplaced Pages, but I want to see you do so in a way that doesn't drive off other contributors, and doesn't potentially cause grief to the family of recent victims of suicide. Your actions last night managed to turn a memorial thread for a valued contributor in to a shitfest, and certainly fell under the purview of BLP discretionary sanctions. If I see you do something like that in the future, I will be using arbcom's BLP discretionary sanctions to stop your behavior. And please keep in mind: you can normally get out of blocks because for most blocks to stick requires consensus at ANI. If I end up having to block you under AC's BLP sanctions, it doesn't require consensus at ANI to stick - it requires consensus at WP:AE that my block was wrong, otherwise it sticks. (And anyone who steps in to reverse a block imposed under those sanctions before that consensus is established is in line for a likely desysop per policy.) Kevin Gorman (talk) 15:59, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Bloody hell admins are boring aren't they! Might I suggest that you take your sanctions and your sysops and go and do some good with them somewhere. Frankly, you are making yourself sound like a complete jobsworth, or is pissing Eric off part of the administrators initiation ceremony? -- Cassianto 16:58, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Kevin, you're making yourself look utterly ridiculous. You've been an administrator all of three weeks, just slow down and be more cautious. Your threat to place Eric under BLP sanctions is out of process and one which I have no hesitation in telling you is wrong. Your interpretation of policy is worryingly lax and I would strongly urge you to apologise for your petulant behaviour here today. If you don't, at the very least, go away and learn policy more clearly before posting absurd threats. Nick (talk) 16:22, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I've sent you an email because I'd rather not continue this discussion on-wiki significantly, but am responding briefly here to say: I fully stand by the interpretation of policy that I have set forth here, believe that shutting down last night's discussion as I did was in the best interests of Misplaced Pages, and am fully confident that if a similar situation occurs in the future where I actually have to take action, my action will be upheld at WP:AE. Kevin Gorman (talk) 16:42, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm replying to your e-mail, but the scale of how wrong you are is making it difficult to know where to start. If you think your out of process, completely nonsensical threat to block Eric would be upheld at AE, you need to resign, and quick. Nick (talk) 18:00, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

• (edit conflict)RTFM. BDP is a subsection of BLP. BLP extends to the recently deceased, especially suicide victims etc. I'm not going to block you for calling me a fucking idiot, but if you make another inappropriate post on that thread, I'll redact it, and if you restore it, I'll ban you from the discussion. If you ignore that ban without consensus at WP:AE that I was in the wrong, I'll enforce it with a block. It's a thread about a valued community member who recently committed suicide, lay off of it. I know blocking you is almost never a good idea, but in this particular instance, I will do so if needed. Please don't make it needed. Kevin Gorman (talk) 06:13, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

  OOh, big scary man threatens to ban me from a discussion I really don't give a fuck about. Just one more example of what's wrong here. Eric Corbett 06:19, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

If you don't give a fuck about the discussion then don't participate in it further and any drama will be avoided. I'm not okay with the idea of the victim's parents reading a thread about their son on Jimbo's talk page (which is not unlikely) full of grave-dancing. Imagine how that would make them feel. Thus, I'm going to avoid having that happen to the best of my ability. Kevin Gorman (talk) 06:24, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

The OP did not call for Misplaced Pages to be a psychiatric hospice, Eric. You read something into the discussion that wasn't there. They advocated kindness and understanding, others agreed, and then you chose to jump in and stir up a storm. Why not drop it and move on? It isn't worth a fight. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:29, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll decide whether it's worth a fight or not, not you. Eric Corbett 06:31, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

What Cullen said. This is where you want to stake your flag and hold your ground? Of all places? Ed  06:37, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Probably not, but the point needed to be made nevertheless. Eric Corbett 06:43, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

This is hopefully my last comment about this issue. Eric, I know you consider yourself generally unblockable, and I know that in the past this has generally been true. I would like you to know that if I ever see you engage in the type of behavior you engaged in in that context again, I will not hesitate to block you, and I'm relatively confident the block will hold. You're a prolific, valued content creator, but you cannot act in this way if you expect to be part of Misplaced Pages's community. I'm taking your page off my watchlist, ping me if I need to respond to something. Kevin Gorman (talk) 06:45, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

The only thing you've demonstrated is that you know fuck all, a common trait among administrators. Now run along along and block a few vandals. Eric Corbett 06:50, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I just read that thread and don't really understand the outrage. Unless a bit of circlejerking was going on. Parrot of Doom 18:09, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I am puzzled too by what all of this is about. Snowolf 19:31, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Parrot: I emailed you a brief explanation a little while ago. Everyone else: there's some info in bits and pieces on my talk page, and I'll be making a more comprehensive statement there later today. I believe my actions were fully policy compliant and stand by them; I spoke with multiple longtime admins about the situation before doing so, and took what I believed was the course least likely to result in emotional harm to Wikipedians and to family members of the deceased. Please also note that I told Eric not to participate in a single section on Jimbo's talk page, and did not threaten any further sanction if he agreed to not participate in that section. Kevin Gorman (talk) 20:26, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Looks like someone got hold of the wrong end of the stick and still can't drop it. J3Mrs (talk) 20:46, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't bother making any statement beyond "I massively overreacted and now realise that people have a right to their opinion. Next time, I'll simply offer my opinion and move on." Parrot of Doom 22:16, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

People may have a right to their opinion. However hen their opinion is likely to cause emotional or mental harm to people and presents no tangible benefit, they don't have a right to express that opinion on Misplaced Pages, however. Kevin Gorman (talk) 23:45, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Didn't you take this page off your watchlist? --SB_Johnny | ✌ 23:49, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Obviously not. You have completely missed the point Kevin. I found the tenor of that thread to be deeply offensive, but for a different reason than your shallow interpretation of events. What I took objection to was the notion that the suicide of a Wikipedian was in some way considered to be more important than the suicides of non-Wikipedians, and that as a result we all needed to be trained as psychiatric nurses. Eric Corbett 23:52, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll jump in, shiny admin badge and all. I was tempted to do something about that thread on Jimbo's talk page: I found the initial post deeply offensive. It's the equivalent of Sarah McLachlan showing up on your doorstep with a dying puppy telling you that decent people would take it in, and with the TV crew from the local news filming your response. There is no right way of responding to that message since, somehow, everyone on Misplaced Pages was made culpable in that young man's suicide. One should realize that the young man had nothing to do with that thread, that it was only posted to gain some emotional traction.

It's understandable (maybe I disagree with you, Eric, I don't know) that someone would post something on their own user page here; after all, some of us are heavily invested in this community. But one simply cannot expect that somehow that's as good as getting professional help, and what the IP did, blaming all those who saw it and didn't know what to do, is unacceptable. And of course Eric has to be the one to point that out, since no one else does; I saw the thread when there were only two or three responses and didn't know what to do: I guess I was hoping that Jimbo himself would step in and find some tactful way of responding and closing, and then I had to deal with some of its fallout (using a very special admin tool), and then it was bedtime, perhaps.

So, Kevin, I strongly disagree with this template you pasted here. I accept your good faith (I've known you for too long to doubt that) but this was not the right thing to do: more heat, less light. Whatever we do is not going to bring that poor boy back to life or help his parents and loved ones one way or another, and pretending that we matter that much, or could have solved something (the IP's argument), is not doing anyone any good. Eric, Kevin is one of the good guys. This was misguided, I think, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is one of the good guys even with that shiny new badge. I'm sure he thought long and hard before warning you, and he's clearly not enjoying the shit storm he raised. I understand you're miffed and I would be too: maybe put it down to youth and much good will. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 06:03, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

• I'm completely appalled by this situation - is Eric not allowed to comment on anything without others immediately turning on him? From what I can see Eric highlighted that WP really could not help in the tragic circumstances referred to by the IP.  His comment was then immediately set upon by others (ironically using profanity, something Eric would likely have been blocked for). The matter was then escalated with accusations of BLP violations, threats of blocking and a continual mantra that emotional distress might be caused to others. Has no one considered Eric's feelings? He is a diligent, productive Editor and is very helpful - yes, he is and he does a lot for editor retention - yet he is hounded at every turn and his help to others is seldom acknowledged. This scenario demonstrates the worst of WP and several people really do need to drop the stick and stop trying to goad Eric at every opportunity. SagaciousPhil - Chat 07:12, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

@SB: due to the number of emails I'm still getting mentioning Eric's talk, it's still on my watchlist for now, though hopefully not for long :). @Eric: I understand what you are saying and understand your theoretical point, however your posts were still significantly likely to cause mental/emotional harm to Wikipedians or to the family of the deceased had they stumbled across them, and that clearly violates BLP. Context matters: I'd be totally fine with you having a conversation whether or not we treat Wikipedians with undue weight (as we frequently have re: Wikipedians who have articles) in most circumstances, even if it was in regards to the value of their lives/deaths, as long as it was in a context where it wasn't likely to cause significant mental/emotional harm to the other participants in the discussion. The subject matter isn't the issue - how it's framed and how likely it is to cause significant mental/emotional harm to people is. I may not have managed to convey that point to you previously, but it's an important one. If you act in a similar way in a context likely to cause harm in the future, expect to have the same thing happen to you, even if it's implemented by an admin other than myself. Kevin Gorman (talk) 00:05, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Look. Take your shiny new admin cudgel and stick it where the sun don't shine. I've really heard quite enough of your threats and sanctimonious nonsense for one day. Eric Corbett 00:14, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

As the warning is no longer relevant anyway as the section has been archived, feel free to delete this whole thing if you feel like it. I've never threatened you, I've only pointed out that the more often you violate BLP and NPA, the more likely it is you're going to get an AE block or an arbcom case (since it's been established normal blocks won't stick on you.) Kevin Gorman (talk) 00:25, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Clearly becoming an administrator has gone to your head; one can only hope that you won't be one for much longer. In the meantime you need to kick that habit of telling others what to do. Just who the Hell do you think you are, granting me permission to archive something from my talk page? And for the record I have never violated BLP, no matter how many times you claim that I have. Repeating a lie doesn't magically make it become the truth. Eric Corbett 00:31, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

I see he's still manfully hanging on to the wrong end of the stick. What utter lack of judgement thinking the IP's post was a memorial, and why would anyone hang around Jimbo's page looking for one. He'd like you to sweep it under the carpet just like he's done on his talk page. Eric, you're rarely wrong about people and that's what they don't like. J3Mrs (talk) 09:19, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

At least the asshole detector is still working at 100% efficiency. I guess that's something. Intothatdarkness 14:49, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Kevin Gorman misrepresents a mawkish, guilt-tripping post as a "memorial", harasses Eric with groundless threats, baits him with accusations—malicious, vile, and utterly false—of gravedancing; and bangs on about an overriding concern to protect readers from "mental/emotional harm"—another fantasy which, unsupported by an iota of evidence, maligns Eric as a heartless sonofabitch who endangers our readers' psychological health. All this we know about Kevin Gorman's modus operandi. So we know he's not fit to be an administrator. We can also be pretty sure he won't do the decent thing and resign. More's the pity. Writegeist (talk) 01:52, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Summary available on my talkpage of previous section for those interested

See ]. Happy to answer any questions about my actions, and I stand by them 100%. Kevin Gorman (talk) 22:59, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Clearly you've learned nothing then. Eric Corbett 23:20, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

• Coming back after a weekend away, I just can't believe this Admin is so out of touch and woefully misinformed on the basics of the place. Something soon has got to be done about these admins (Commons and here) - there needs to be some sort of written examination to gauge their understanding of the policy and rules they are supposed to be regulating, and if they don't score 90%, then they should not be allowed to even have an RFA.  Giano  09:37, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

• I am also concerned that we seem to be having IRC backchat ; if these untrained and ignorant waste of space Admins can't say something on Misplaced Pages, it would be best if they were not saying it at all.  Giano  12:11, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

• I'm on IRC (using the nick Rihan); occasionally I can help someone in the help channel, a bot there gives me a list of open help templates, I've occasionally received advice there on dealing with technical issues and with WMF technical asininity - and the format throttles back the verbosity of the 74 IP as well as my own, so we can talk about editor retention '-) But I've never felt a need to seek access to the admins' channel. The admins' noticeboards are bad enough. Yngvadottir (talk) 06:05, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I wish you all luck

My continued participation in this project has really become impossible, time for me to move on. Eric Corbett 00:49, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Eric Corbett, I wish you luck as well.—John Cline (talk) 01:05, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Aw, stick with us, Eric, you know this is all just the usual shit. Besides, your talk page is the only place I can say stuff like "shit." We need ya, man! Montanabw 02:51, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Come over and edit at Wikia, we have the dark side and cookies!. 108.45.104.158 (talk) 03:47, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

If you leave Eric, the admins have won. It's what they want. If you stay and stick to your guns, it'll piss them off even more. I know what I would choose. ;) Cassianto 04:57, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I say do whatever is best for your life, but I think Cassianto makes a strong point about not positively reinforcing that long-term label bulling will drive almost anyone away. On the other hand, I'm certainly not implying that you "owe it to Misplaced Pages" to persevere; you don't owe us anything. Either way, thanks for your legendary contribution to the project. Remember that even if you do leave, your influence on this place will remain. Not just in article space, but at the core of every creative content editor's identity. GabeMc 22:38, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Coming very late to this and after reading the closed AN/I section, asking you to please reconsider (and unwatch Jimbo's talkpage, from which I have never known anything good to come). This was a nasty mess stemming from a couple of editors (an IP and an admin who is still feeling his way in the role) generalising their own manner of dealing with grief and expressing respect; please don't let it affect what you do for the encyclopaedia. Yngvadottir (talk) 05:54, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll reconsider if and when I see Kevin Gorman blocked for his ongoing personal attacks. Eric Corbett 06:21, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

C'mon Eric, Kevin is an earnest lad trying hard to be the man, and getting it all confused. Just let the lad be. We all know what our admin system amounts to, and taking it seriously is not the way to go. Misplaced Pages is much more than our dead-end admin system. --Epipelagic (talk) 07:24, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

FGS Eric, just read this edit and realise that not quite all Admins are fools (although 90% of them are power crazed infants overdosed on synthetic orange juice) and let's get back to normal. Admins do not get desysopped for insulting, you, me or anybody else, so rise above the little twerp, which is frankly not very hard and let's get on.  Giano  08:05, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Echoing the above: Kevin is "a recent graduate" of a US university so is probably a young American. Misplaced Pages needs mature non-American editors to redress the balance, and it needs knowledgeable content-contributors. Don't go, despite his crass remark and your ultimatum. PamD 08:16, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

"Mistakes by non admins result in blocks. Mistakes by admins result in so much hypocritical bollocks it would be hard to know where to start. Malleus Fatuorum, 25 June 2010" Ihardlythinkso (talk) 10:31, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I feel partly responsible by having put a laser on Gorman for him to clarify and take responsibility for his egregious statement and perhaps apologize. But the WP is a demonstrably responsibility-free zone so what was I thinking?!? I believe your instinctive reactions to Gorman at your Talk were the best/healthiest, and I want to encourage you to follow your own misgiving re ANI ("Nothing good ever comes from that place. Malleus Fatuorum 22:41, 12 February 2012 (UTC)") and never open a thread there. If you leave the WP will experience a measurable dip in overall IQ, so please don't. Sincere, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 08:21, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Expecting hell to freeze over is more likely than getting an admin blocked for not dropping the stick. Montanabw 08:22, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

• Also late: Eric, you didn't gravedance, there wasn't even a grave, and you hate dancing. It was plain wrong to say you did. Nothing will make it right, not a block, not an apology, right? - You can join my red cat, - I decided a while ago that I don't let circumstances and other people decide if I stay or go. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:24, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

see also other views, - as Giano pointed out above, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:53, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Eric, I have glimpsed your contributions and would like to add my opinion: You're a good editor. Seen from afar, Misplaced Pages is a glorious achievement, a great collaboration of tens of thousands of editors who don't know each other. Up close, like any great institution (Cambridge University? the BBC?) it's full of vindictiveness, jealousy and paranoia. Rise above it & go on editing. Mick gold (talk) 11:56, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

That's true Mick, but in such organizations it's rarely guys barely out of nappies calling the shots and lecturing the elders on civility..♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:20, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

You are a gentle person. "Lecturing on civility" is a euphemism for saying something hurtful that is wrong. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:28, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

The problem is that Kevin knows how Eric is going to respond and does come across as if he is taunting him and trying to win brownie points for challenging him. Nothing good is going to come of it so I don't see the point.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:34, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that is the problem. There are real graves involved. I better stop now. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:46, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Here's the rub...in the shortish time I've been here Eric has quit at least three times, only to come back a week or two later. Why does anyone think this one is anything different or special? Maybe it is. Maybe this is the last straw, although history seems to indicate otherwise. And if he does walk away, maybe he's right to do so. Is anything that goes on in this little closed society really worth the effort? Is it worth the pain that many of you seem to express on a regular basis? If it's so "wrong," so "broken," why stay? If Eric's actually serious about leaving, he should. And Godspeed to him for making that choice. If he's not serious, maybe he should consider forgoing the ritual rage quit in the future. And maybe, just maybe, the collective outrage should be focused on fixing the system and destroying the shadow bureaucracies and OWN of policy that turns this place into a closed society and dysfunctional social network. Or not, if that's what people are more comfortable with. There is, after all, a comfort in the familiar. Intothatdarkness 22:40, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I have long viewed WP as a dysfunctional anarchy akin to that of The Dispossessed; "consensus" is too often "bully people into doing it my way." What we need is a true rule of law structure here and abolition of the silly NOTDEMOCRACY concept, as clearly, the pendulum swings too widely between the little fiefdoms here and mob rule. Montanabw 04:43, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

It won't change, though. There's too much OWN of policy. Anyone who tries to change that is almost immediately labeled an enemy of the state. Delta Bravos will continue to rule the day. Intothatdarkness 14:43, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh Eric, please come back, whatever shall we do without you? *wince* ‑Scottywong| spout _ 05:05, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Speaking of gravedancing.GJC 05:18, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Eric--truly, friend, it's not worth the drama. It really just isn't. There will always be those at whom we shake our heads and say "really? can they possibly be serious?" and know full well that yes, they are. But just because that flavor of injustice runs rampant, it's not enough of a reason to abandon the good work you've done here. After all, think of all the injustice in the real world, and we have to keep living in THAT, don't we?GJC 05:18, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Eric: I don't check my watchlist much these days, but I happened to today and what do I find? GoodBye! You know, you're probably approaching a decade of repeatedly quitting Misplaced Pages. This talk page has quite literally become like a bad sitcom or reality TV show (593 page watchers, good grief). Almost everyone is well aware that you're not going anywhere. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:15, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

The end of this matter is could be in sight (thanks to the Arbs)

I'm looking forward to hearing confirmation of the secret evidence that justifies Kevin's behaviour which is now apparently in the hands of the Arbcom. Doubtless the Arbcom will confirm the nature of this and end this affair - so it's over to a comment from the Arbs to defuse this situation.  Giano  09:12, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Giano poked me about this by email. I'll point back to Kevin's latest statement "I have explicitly informed two arbitrators and Maggie and Philippe of the cause of my action, and will write a statement to the full committee when I have time." The committee has not had a full statement, and I'm not one of the two arbitrators. Furthermore, I should mention I'd recuse wrt Eric due to my name appearing on this list. Worm(talk) 15:28, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

• You're too hard on yourself Worm, you are quite capable of being fair - even if Eric is not you favourite dish of the day. Kevin's was a pretty horrible allegation to make. If Eric really has inadvertently caused major upset to newly bereaved parents, as Kevin has inferred, that's terrible, but if it's just a lame justification from a new Admin that's not even true, that's really not good. I know Eric's comments were meant in general (I actually agree with them) and not directed at one particular suicide. Eric may have some faults (who of us don't), but he's not a monster like that - it needs to be made clear. Eric (stupidly in my view) uses his real name; this sort of allegation can carry on into real life, and that's not good either. Perhaps, Worm, you can find out who the Arbs are and ask them to clarify - we don;t need to know who sent kevin this information or even its full content, but we do need to know is Kevin's behaviour was justified.  Giano  15:36, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

  I'm sure I could be fair, but it's not just about fairness, it's about being seen to be fair. The very fact I appear on that list can add a perception of impropriety and I don't want that. I've argued both for and against Eric over the years, I don't think I'd describe my relationship with him negatively. From what I've seen, his comments were upsetting but pertinent. Given the location and the subject matter it's not surprising that people over-reacted. Worm(talk) 15:46, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

• I'm on that list too, I see. Yes, appearances count for a lot. Drmies (talk) 18:45, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Gents, I've seen some ArbCom stuff where the recusals were so out of control that the only people left to vote were all the ones with a blatent bias for the opposite side, whatever the opposite side happened to be. You both are solid, Worm, I know I got pissy at you a couple weeks ago, but you do at least try to be fair most of the time. Montanabw 21:38, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

• Come back please, Eric. Help us get The Who through FAC and ignore all this dramah fest. Ritchie333 15:02, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
• Secret communications? IRC discussions? Wild allegations? Not the sort of admins we need here. I apologise for voting this person into a position where he could primp and prance like this. Very disappointing. --John (talk) 19:09, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Oh come on. Most editors here have "secret communications" and use IRC. Many admins apparently do that too, and have done for years, they have their own channel. Very disappointing (and surprising) that with your experience, you have only just realised that. I'm prepared to bet most of The Rambling Boy's inheritance that Eric will be back, fighting, within a week. In the meantime, shall we just move along? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:13, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
    • I haven't "only just realised" that and I am not sure where you got that from. I have never used IRC and I distrust those that do. This is seemingly a case in point, although who knows. I have acquired a very poor impression of young Kevin and I have no faith we will ever hear the truth about the matter. As to Eric, that is up to him to decide, and I don't know why you would joke about it. He's had a very serious and false allegation made against him by someone in a position of power who accompanied the false allegation with a threat and is now employing politician-speak to avoid apologising for his harmful acts. I'd be upset too. --John (talk) 19:31, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
      • You supported him, so clearly your position is upset now, and I can't comment on that, it must be disappointing that someone doesn't live up to your expectations. However, the fact that there's an admin IRC channel and that there are email exchanges on a regular basis between editors (including admins) makes me question why you think that "secret communications" and "IRC discussions" are something to bring up like some kind of revelation. Also not sure what you mean by a "position of power", do you simply mean admin? I can't comment on Kevin's "politician-speak" etc, but I can sympathise with a newly-flagged admin trying to "do the right thing". (And despite this 25th retirement, if Eric isn't back editing in a week, I'll eat my hat, my cat and my bat). The Rambling Man (talk) 20:02, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
        • • • Well I have never used IRC and am have never felt the need to be an Admin and seldom support these vainglorious juveniles in their efforts to promote themselves. However, having clawed themselves up the Misplaced Pages ladder, I do feel Admins (more so than others) have a duty to set an example - what other point is there to them? This one has cocked-up big time, made spurious allegations, and is now scraping the barrel of history to justify his own errors. If that's an example of good admin behaviour then God help us.  Giano  20:18, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
              • IRC is (I assume) a shithole of nefarious negotiations. I tried it once, but like Morris dancing, I was appalled and sickened by it. I'm not sure anyone has ever claimed Kevin's behaviour, the use of IRC or email, etc to be "good admin behaviour". Most admins spend most of their time answering shitty questions from indignant editors. Perhaps those indignant editors should become admins, or at the least, campaign to allow themselves to admin Misplaced Pages without the pointless torture of RFA, by simply stating, "I don't give a shit what any of you think". Somehow, I get the impression that some think that being an admin gets you bonus points for heaven or bitcoins or something else. It doesn't. It just lands you with a world of shit, usually embellished with a universe of shit from people who continually piss on those who happen to be admins. Now then, time for a sherry and for most of you to fuck right off (as I'm sure Eric would say, if he hadn't retired for the 329th time). Or at the very least, for me to "fuck off" which I'll obligingly do. See you in a few days Eric. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:26, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh dear, that is all a dreadful pity. Nevermind I expect the admin tools compensate for having a small penis - from what you say, there seems too be little other apparent benefit.  Giano  20:45, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh yes, the penis thing, well you're right. Those who flash the admin tools maybe in need of advice. Not sure which admin tools were flashed here though. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:52, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Threatened to block here, along with a lot of misguided twaddle about BLP. Actually click on the diff, as it's quite instructive in a "how-not-to-do-it" sort of a way. --John (talk) 21:08, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Yep, got that, thanks for the guidance on how to view the diff. Misguided, enthusiastic, whatever. A "how-not-to-do-it" to a new admin, who you supported? I suppose all you can do now is make swathes of whining about how you wish you hadn't voted for the candidate, to clear yourself of any involvement, and then perhaps look for a de-sysop? Well bang, there it is. Start a de-sysop discussion if you (or Giano, or Eric, or anyone with the energy) feel that way inclined. If not, just suck it in. Really, there's so much whining the community can tolerate before something active has to be done. If you, Giano, Eric etc care that much, do something about it rather than just bitching on a retired user's talk page. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:16, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Yawn. You still here? Thought you were off for a sherry a while ago. Don't let me detain you. --John (talk) 21:32, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Sherry? You wimps, this drama deserves Vodka! Cheers! Montanabw 21:38, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

For the tiring, Jägerbombs all round. Prost!! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:58, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

I drank one to the memory of Audrey and Eric Corbett, and one to the tiring, cheers, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:06, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Rambling, for the record, Eric asked for a block (not a de-sysop). For me, I asked Kevin to simply apologize to Eric for his lewd accusation. (Kevin's reply: it's a bit hilarious that anyone thinks an apology to Eric is warranted. And: even if it were an inappropriate description of his behavior, I find laughable the idea that anyone should apologize to Eric over a perceived personal attack.) I don't think an admin has ever been de-sysopped over simple arrogance, have they? (I mean, besides Kafziel?) I've witnessed more than once an admin become abusively uncivil and then excuse themselves with: "So go de-sysop me then. Or else shut the fuck up." (Is that your take too? And how becoming is that for admin, role model and all!?) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 22:46, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm sure you and Eric and Giano et al have a group of admins who they would consider worthy, and I'm sure they'd be happy with Eric/Malleus telling people to fuck off and Giano hanging alongside applauding, etc, but it's really irrelevant. Eric does some good editorial work but from time to time calls someone a shit. Giano currently hangs around. Whatever. They both believe admins are evil, and if they're not evil, there're pointless. Who cares. We all have our roles. Giano gets blocked, Eric gets indignant and retires every week, I get dragged to ANI periodically (although not by the esteemed Eric/Giano duet), and shit continues. Other editors lurk around drama boards. Pointless. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:57, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

You seem trying to deflect what is the conduct of one admin w/ some kind of fuzzy generalized moralizing. This admin, who received a plethora of 'Support' votes at his recent RfA, and is supposedly held to conduct of "a higher standard", is defended w/ desperation by you and others (mostly thru attacking the characters of those objecting to what went down). You yourself got over 100 'Support' votes and no 'Oppose' votes at your RfA. Do you think your attitude and expectations expressed by your It just lands you with a world of shit, usually embellished with a universe of shit from people who continually piss on those who happen to be admins. might have any impact on perpetuating said expectations? If you had to run for RfA again would you say those things in your self-description introductory remarks? Ihardlythinkso (talk) 00:49, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh, give me a break. Everyone knows that RfA is essentially analogous to a political election. You do what you have to do to get votes. Once you make it through the beauty pageant, then you can eventually return to being yourself, speaking your mind, and using your best judgment to make (sometimes controversial) decisions. Once you pass an RfA, you're not required to treat every subsequent interaction as if you were still at RfA. Yes, to some minor degree, admins are role models of sorts, but they're also humans who have opinions, make mistakes, and in the end they are fundamentally no "better" or "worse" than non-admins (and should not be expected to be). They are merely more well-versed in the minutiae of WP policies than most, and perhaps slightly more likely to be mature and level-headed than other editors. They are trusted to be mature enough to handle the responsibility of a few extra tools that non-admins don't have access to. That's it. Sometimes they fuck up when using those tools. The best quality an admin can possibly possess is the ability to admit when they've made a mistake, learn from it, and move on. ‑Scottywong| talk _ 05:47, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Once you make it through the beauty pageant, then you can eventually return to being yourself. Well not quite, perhaps you're missing the personality modification those having held only limited power in RL might undergo after finding themselves in position to overpower and humiliate a more accomplished individual that irked them by merely pressing a button. (Don't you think that could make such a person feel better about themselves?!) It takes a strong individual to not succumb to the classic "power corrupts", and for instance User:Montanabw has showed his smarts by intentionally sidestepping the temptation. Mostly power corrupts, because strong individuals are rather rare.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 07:57, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

You rang? Gorman is tempting me, actually. I mean, seriously, I'm tempted to apply just to see if an editor who accumulates "snarkives" on her user page has a snowball's chance in hell with a RfA! LOL! (And FWIW, it's "she" but no worries, mate, I like to keep it ambiguous so people stay on their toes... heh). Montanabw 03:22, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

"The abuse itself is not a surprise. Power leads to power trips. The problem is that Misplaced Pages, systemically, doesn't care. It has principles to protect against popularity contests and admin abuse, but the principles are enforced by.... popularity contests and admins. Mindbunny (talk) 03:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)" Ihardlythinkso (talk) 10:40, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Not a lot of point

Eric, I'm not going to be commenting further on this case because it's apparent that there isn't going to be an answer. I've made a final request for information here , but I expect it will be futile. Nobody in real authority is going to make any effort to find out why this Admin behaved so, let alone censure him if he's found to be in the wrong. I've asked several Arbs if they know anything of this case, and none seem have the information that Kevin claims to have provided. It's a pity, but it seems it's OK for Admins to insult the plebs and then justify a lack of apology on the grounds that the plebs must have committed past misdemeanours which makes them fair game for any passing punishment; that's a dangerous path to go down. However, in such a totalitarian, secretive climate, I really don't think there's any more I can do. I hope you're back before too long, but I don't blame you if you're not. So long.  Giano  08:16, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

• Giano, the only reason I am replying here is because I am on the page for a different reason, and since your post seems to be implying I'm lying about talking to arbs: one of the arbs who has an explanation of why I'm not discussing it on-wiki is Worm. I sent it to him after seeing him engaged here, and he hasn't yet had time to read it. If you didn't get positive responses from other arbs, then you didn't ask the arbs I had already spoken to. All arbs are now have at least partial information about why I acted, and will receive more complete details over the weekend. More than one of them have expressed misgivings in their personal capacity about the way I handled it, but of the arbitrators who have expressed opinions in their personal capacities on the issue of me leaving certain things off-wiki (to be clear: most arbs have not expressed opinions in their personal capacities about this in particular,) all of them have concurred that the particular details I am leaving off-wiki should not be discussed on-wiki. Kevin Gorman (talk) 21:06, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Yet another mistake—Giano's above comment does not imply that you were lying. Having deleted all attempts to seek an explanation from your talk (diff), why post here to offer an ex cathedra assurance that there are magic reasons for why you misinterpreted blunt commentary, but ordinary editors are not permitted to know them? The initial post was from a trolling IP—one in a series of attempts to spread muck on Jimbo's talk, and there may well have been a reason to remove the entire thread due to sensitivity regarding the subject matter. However, that has nothing to do with Eric. Johnuniq (talk) 01:31, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
    • But Eric is the only one who chose to chime in then in a disruptive way, and stir the pot. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:02, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
      • And I agree that was unwise. But it was also unwise for the newbie admin to choose Eric to flash his new badge at with his inaccurate statement and his heavy-handed threat. Striking the stupid threat several days later without apologising, while making it clear that this was part of some orchestrated off-wiki agenda, and falling back on the crap defence of "it's a sekrit"; this is the stuff of desysops I'm afraid. --John (talk) 07:07, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
        • So, we have "unwise" and "unwise". Let the supporters and the detractors of both Eric and Kevin keep those judgments in mind, before mounting and spurring the high horse. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:12, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
        • (ec) This is Eric's talk page, please talk to him. - Eric, you factually mentioned the violent death of close relatives. That is disturbing, yes, but not disruptive as I know the term (perhaps I don't). I have good faith and see it as trying to get to facts, and to get things in perspective. Eric, I like that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
          • It was my own simple attempt at a compassionate remark directed Eric's way that resulted in what have been one of his most disturbing remarks in response, Gerda Arendt. Eric made the point that Misplaced Pages is not a hospice for suicidal types, simultaneously with spilling his guts about his own deeply disturbing family tragedy, without context, explanation or any real opportunity for anyone else to reply empathetically. I could spew some of my own family's personal tragedies to try to make a point, but what would that accomplish out of context, other than to make people upset? I won't. Misplaced Pages isn't a hospice, after all. Eric taught us that. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:31, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
            • Misplaced Pages is not a hospice, true, no? Eric didn't gravedance, true, no? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:38, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
              • "Gravedance" was definitely the wrong term to describe Eric's behavior. I am not sure what the right term would be. "Provocative" comes close, but is perhaps a trifle too gentle. Cullen Let's discuss it 07:43, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
                • (ec, belongs here) I usually don't describe, but stick to the facts. I would just hope that someone who used "definitely the wrong term" would apologize for doing so. See also, "Whatever gets you through the night", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:56, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
                  • In response to Kevin's continuing arrogance, I can only say that I cannot believe that even when he does finally furnished the Arbcom with a full account of his secret information, it can possibly justify Admins insulting editors and failing to apologise on the grounds that the editor must have committed past misdemeanors which makes them fair game for any passing insult. Amusingly, on his talk page, he has disposed of all mention of this lamentable affair, but left the barn stars he was given for his part in it. I think that tells us much. Kevin has set himself up as a leading Wikipedian, but I am failing to see exemplary behavior in any form.  Giano  07:51, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
                    • If you ask me, this is grave dancing. It's despicable that a bunch of loonies can be allowed to slap the back of someone who has just lost the project a fantastic editor. Cassianto Talk 09:06, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
            • @Cullen, simultaneously with spilling his guts about his own deeply disturbing family tragedy, without context, explanation. Eric brought up his own personal tragedy to give example how people handle personal issues differently. He further said the idea of posting such matters on his User talk was in his opinion an extremely poor idea -- that personal matters s/b handled appropriately in RL and not attempted to be brought into the WP spaces for handling or support by Misplaced Pages editors -- that expectations and motivations to furnish support or help for serious personal issues is a misguided notion on the WP. So I don't understand how you say his comments were "without context, explanation", or that he "spilled his guts", when Eric kept his own facts well in line to make a very limited point with them. He felt the discussion of WP editors' involvements in other editors' serious problems had careened in a seriously misguided direction and his contribution to that discussion was to present a clear counter-voice, which he did. Eric's original post was to the OP as indenting shows, and when you brought up your condolences about his father, he clarified to you why no condolences were necessary. So when you said he is the only one who chose to chime in then in a disruptive way, and stir the pot I think that is an incorrect and unfair characterization of his contributions to that discussion thread, to offer a counter-view and prove his sincerity by supporting with a meaningful example is simply making a strong argument for his view, not "disrupting". Because you might have your own personal reactions and sentiments to associate to Eric's remarks and example, that is about you, not Eric, so you cannot rightly "attach them" when evaluating. Besides that, if you read that thread, Eric took pains to be well-sufficiently clear what his points were. (Not surprising of course, considering his immense writing talents -- Eric neither minces words, nor wastes them. ) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:59, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

• Against my better judgement, but without any official guidance, I think we are heading here towards arbitration.  Giano  10:08, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Do you all realize that by now you've probably generated several megabytes of discussion about 5 or 6 sentences that Eric wrote a few days ago? And now you'll take it to Arbcom and generate a few more gigabytes of drivel. I fear if that if there was a tabloid dedicated to Misplaced Pages, and the front page had a picture of Eric on it, and in big letters, "Eric Corbett pisses on the grave of beloved editor; self-aggrandizing newbie admin overreacts; Arbcom smells blood", all of you would immediately snatch it up, drooling, and read through it furiously. What has this place become? ‑Scottywong| squeal _ 15:11, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Sorrow

I realise that he didn't piss, not even dance, said as simply as I could, - I will return to drinking now, this time to you, Eric! Did you know about An Ethics of Dissensus.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:27, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

ps: finally, recommended reading about hopes on arbitration, thank you, Eric, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:36, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

What Gerda said – though I'm not drinking right now, maybe later. Nortonius (talk) 17:43, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

My sorrow is now pictured on the German Main page, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:04, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

• I've said it many times before - if the people responsible for all this hand-wringing actually put their efforts into improving articles, Misplaced Pages would be a much more reliable source than it is. Parrot of Doom 20:28, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
  • Scottywong hasn't edited an article since 1 January, but he has time to post here. Go figure. --John (talk) 21:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
    • Yes, and he has also added to the "megabytes of drivel" of which he speaks by participating in this thread. Brilliant! Cassianto Talk 23:48, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Request for arbitration

I have requested a case for arbitration which involves you. It's a pity it's come to this, but Admins cannot be allowed to behave in such a fashion because they believe an editor has erred in the past and need punishing anyway.  Giano  21:05, 17 February 2014 (UTC)