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Nicole Aniston

• Articles for deletion/Nicole Aniston
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Nicole Aniston (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Subject fails PORNBIO due to lack of significant awards; only nominations are present. No significant RS coverage can be found to meet GNG. Previous AfD closed as keep, but sourcing is still unconvincing. As an alternative to deletion, the article can be redirected (after delete) to List of Penthouse Pets. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:26, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:30, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

• Delete non-notable pornographic performer.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:46, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
• Delete as non notable porn actress, Can't find any evidence of notability, Fails PORNBIO & GNG. –Davey2010 05:00, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
• Delete per nom's accurate analysis. Lacks sufficient independent reliable sourcing. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 13:27, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:57, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:57, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:57, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

• Keep  Notability was confirmed at the first AfD, and notability is not temporary.  Unscintillating (talk) 02:15, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

• Comment -- I don't believe that AfD discussions "confirm notability". Instead, their purpose is to determine consensus on whether an article should be retained or deleted. Such consensus can change. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:11, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

• So there was no discussion of or consensus regarding notability at the previous AfD?  Is that what you believe?  Unscintillating (talk) 01:27, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• Previous AfD did not include a discussion of sources, for example:

• Keep "Looks to meet WP:GNG for her industry coverage (no pun intended)" (link to Google search)
• Keep "Nom did not present a reason for deletion"
• Keep "Trolling by the nominator"
• Keep "per X & Y"
• Keep "looks to pass GNG", etc.

Thus, the first AfD did not introduce any new sources or offer convincing arguments, just opinions. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:35, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• So you believe that there was no discussion of or consensus regarding notability?  Unscintillating (talk) 13:51, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• The prior AfD had the appearance of being a vote, rather than a discussion. K.e.coffman (talk) 21:41, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• So there was no discussion about notability because it was a vote?  Unscintillating (talk) 23:30, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• The prior AfD Ivotes noted by k.e. coffman had some seriously non-policy based arguments. I'm not seeing these as valid arguments for keep. I agree with k.e. coffman, the prior AfD has the appearance of merely being a vote, and of voicing unhelpful opinions.Steve Quinn (talk) 23:47, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• These editors should have a chance to respond.  @MichaelQSchmidt, Chillum, Scalhotrod, Subtropical-man, VandVictory, and Mojo Hand: Unscintillating (talk) 02:21, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Yet another display of improper WP:CANVASSING. Violations aren't excused because porn is involved. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 14:22, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

"Another" display?  You've not cited any other cases.  Your assertion that this is improper is a proof by assertion, and since when is it improper to notify all of the previous participants in an AfD?  Please cite the evidence.  And the comment that this has something to do with "porn", what has that got to do with anything?  Finally, User:Mojo Hand is an administrator.  Unscintillating (talk) 17:22, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

A simple ping is quite neutral, does not state or imply how anyone else might or might not opine and as such, per behavior guidelines is not a canvas. However, unfounded WP:ADHOM accusations might violate policy WP:CIVIL. Schmidt, 23:37, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• Strong Keep Winning an award is not the sole criteria for notability. 2,557 page views per day on Misplaced Pages is very impressive. She is a very popular Performer.

She’s very popular on social media. 273 thousand followers on Twitter. Over 100 thousand followers on Instagram. Over 100 thousand Likes on FaceBook. Glenn Francis (talk) 03:00, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

This is not a convincing argument and does not address WP:BLP requirements for high quality sources, to wit: "Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons...such material...must adhere...strictly to this policy, and to Misplaced Pages's three core content policies: Neutral point of view (NPOV), Verifiability (V), No original research (NOR)...be very firm about the use of high-quality sources " (the underline is mine).

Page views are not even considered in any content policies or notability guidelines (per WP:GNG). Asserting she is a popular performer generally or on social media without reliable sources is a POV statement. Twitter is not considered a reliable source per WP:RS (lacks independent reporting standards). Instagram is not considered a reliable source (lacks independent reporting standards), and Facebook is not considered a reliable source (lacks independent reporting standards). To satisfy the requirements for BLP, the subject must have acceptable reliable sourcing RS that bring it to GNG or BIO standards. Steve Quinn (talk) 05:04, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

• Keep per above two comments. 173.70.163.96 (talk) 03:49, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
• Delete the arguments for keep are very unconvincing and do not address BLP requirements for high quality sources. The arguments for keep in the last Afd are also very unconvincing. One editor in the last AfD claims "While nice, non-industry coverage is not a policy nor a guideline." in fact it is very much connected to policy and guidelines because "non-industry coverage" translates into independent coverage which is a requirement for BLP in that it must satisfy GNG or even BIO. The same editor continues with. "It is reasonable that she would receive coverage in and for the industry for which she works". I agree that it is reasonable in the sense of the word, but not reasonable when using this coverage for indicating notability. This person then finishes with "PORNBIO does not supersede the GNG." I believe that is the only correct portion of this particular Ivote.

Another Ivoter in the former AfD said, "Sufficient sources suggests she meets the WP:GNG." Well this actually seems to be a misreading of GNG. It is the type of sources that determine the subject passing GNG. In this case, the sources do not suggest or indicate meeting GNG. Industry related promotional materials are not independent of the subject. Significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject are what is needed. As an aside, she also fails PORNBIO because she has received only nominations. So, there is no way to establish notability for this person. Redirect after delete is acceptable to me. Steve Quinn (talk) 06:38, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

• Delete She has won no significant awards. There is no significant coverage of her in reliable, independent sources. Neither x number of page views nor x number of social media followers confers notability, and such arguments are based neither in policies nor in guidelines. If those numbers are so impressive (which they aren't), then reliable independent sources would have been so impressed that they would have devoted significant coverage to her (which they haven't). Cullen Let's discuss it 06:43, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

• Right, since notability is never conferred and nothing in policies or guidelines says otherwise.  However, evidence of attention to the topic over a period of time contributes to establishing that a topic is "worthy of notice" as per the lede and nutshell of WP:N.  It is a fallacy to assert what independent reliable sources will do, since they may or may not take an interest in specific data.  I'm not saying that page views and followers do or do not contribute to notability, but the evidence can be considered on its merits. 

  Nor is there a requirement for the world at large to notice topics in prose.  An example is Barber Island.  Unscintillating (talk) 01:27, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

But you left out this part: "We consider evidence from reliable independent sources to gauge this attention. The notability guideline does not determine the content of articles, but only whether the topic should have its own article." There is nothing there about gaining attention on social media, because social media coverage is not in agreement with neutrality - a content policy WP:NPOV. Also, Aniston's attention is not noteworthy enough to be covered by mainstream sources, as was stated above. And it appears that nobody is asserting what independent reliable sources will do - this is because Misplaced Pages and its editors do not engage in foretelling the future WP:CRYSTAL. We can only create articles that reliable sources cover - we do not decide, or even try to decide, what mainstream sources should cover - or we would also be in the POV business of righting great wrongs WP:GREATWRONGS. And the problem with page views, followers, and social media coverage is this is not independent journalistic coverage, upon which notability relies. Steve Quinn (talk) 00:37, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• Keep Multiple Penthouse covers plus the Pet of the Year (not just the month, that would be nothing special), top 5 in an independent pornstar ranking, unique feature as one of only two exclusive contract performers of Naughty America, a big company, in over 10 years. Contract performers are seen as the big queens in the porn industry who have reached it all. (At the same time they are rather rarely getting awards because of their advantage to only shoot e. g. 10-20 films a year and their comfort not to do extreme stuff like others). --SamWinchester000 (talk) 02:51, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

I agree with SamWinchester000's excellent explanation for keeping this article.Glenn Francis (talk) 11:00, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Penthouse covers,and Pet of the Year coverage by Penthouse do not qualify as independent coverage because these are Penthouse Magazine products. There would have to be independent coverage of these in reliable sources to indicate notability. Where are the independent sources stating she is in the top 5, and how much coverage is there? Please post them because I am not seeing this covered in the Misplaced Pages article. Where are the independent reliable sources that cover her, her contract, and the nature of that contract with Naughty America. (And what the heck is Naughty America?). Again, where are the sources that say "contract performers are seen as the big queens in the porn industry" and these have reached the top? Steve Quinn (talk) 00:37, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• Keep as a WP:GNG pass. Subject has received significant coverage. SSTflyer 04:04, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• Comment: Which sources demonstrate that the subject meets GNG? The fact that Ms Aniston appeared in a magazine is not sufficient; they coverage needs to be about her. I'm not seeing such sources in the article. K.e.coffman (talk) 04:36, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

• Keep as per above keep votes. Sources here.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 20:48, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

As far as I can tell none of these qualify as significant coverage per GNG and BIO. For example, this is what she looks like with and without makeup and the article and the focus is on what the make-up artist can do - it is trivial coverage. This one shows the pictures she has posted on Instagram - trivial coverage. This one is merely an announcement and has trivial coverage anyway. This one is gossip for the fans. And this is passing mention . This is gossip and trivial coverage for the fans . That appears to be all of them. At least now we are having a discussion. Steve Quinn (talk) 00:37, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• This ought to be seen as an object lesson as to why posts of raw search results establish nothing. A substantial share of the purported coverage of the subject are nothing more than compilations of gossip column items, with some individual items featuring Jennifer Aniston and others mentioning Nicole Kidman or Nicole Ritchie. Filtering such spurious hits and the many duplicate posts leaves essentially trivial coverage. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 14:30, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

• Keep per meeting WP:BIO per genre coverage and awards. Brought back to AFD in a hope that past supporters will not return to support, and denigrating the expected genre coverage because it is not in "mainstream media" is weak. And while yes the previous topic consensus can change... not I think this time. Schmidt, 22:58, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

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