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Revision as of 16:28, 6 April 2021 editPpdallo (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users736 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit		Revision as of 16:32, 6 April 2021 edit undoChaheel Riens (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers38,590 edits →Comments Next edit →
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	::::] Just to let you know, I have reverted it. I think any attempt from you to revert it again will almost certainly be classified as vandalism, and probably won't end well.] (]) 16:27, 6 April 2021 (UTC)		::::] Just to let you know, I have reverted it. I think any attempt from you to revert it again will almost certainly be classified as vandalism, and probably won't end well.] (]) 16:27, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
			:What in Hell are you up to? Are you intentionally trying to provoke some kind of reaction? Your behaviour is just unfathomable. You've actually provided a perfect source to back up your claim, and yet you're still trying to insert the inadequate reference. Just stop, please, for the sake of the soul of Misplaced Pages, just stop. ] (]) 16:32, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

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Africa: Niger / Nigeria / Sudan Top‑importance

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March 2006

The total number of Hausa speaking people is far larger than 20 million. Remember that in Nigeria only, abb. 27 million people are Hausa (22%) and in Niger the proportion is much larger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Transylvanian (talk • contribs)

Indeed. I've adjusted the number, citing two recent sources. If anyone has better sources, feel free to correct. — mark ✎ 08:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

There is many hausa in saudi arabia who speak arabic

Religion

Hi! I disagree with the information posted under the "Religion" section of the Hausa people. Muslims believe in the "jinn" and the Quran/Koran has even a chapter on the "Jinn". Also, the miracles of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and the saints ("awliya") are also accepted by all Muslims. These are accepted beliefs in Islam. The "Kadiriya" (or Qadiriya) are those Muslims who are spiritually connected to Shaykh Abdul Qadir Gilani (RA) of Baghdad, Iraq. Unfortunately, who ever has written this section does not know much about the Islamic beliefs and traditions of the Hausa Muslims. I would recommend a complete revamping of this section. Thanks, Syed (Oct 7th,2006 5:47 PM US Eastern Time)

I think you are largely right. The section should be rewritten based on reliable sources; right now, it doesn't seem to conform to WP:NPOV and it even looks like parts of it may be original research. Do you have good sources yourself to base a rewrite on? — mark ✎ 09:13, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Hausa Christians About 6% to 10% of Hausa people in areas like Kaduna and Jos are Christians. They are typically called "Katafawa" an area which most of the Hausa people there are Christains alike. So I think it is important to include this in the Religious section. Thanks, --Auwal87 (talk) 13:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you are right Auwal87. The Katafawa are called The Atyap people, also known as the Kataf by the Hausa people, are an ethnic group that occupy part of the Zangon-Kataf Local Government Area of Kaduna State, Nigeria. They speak the Tyap language, one of the West Plateau languages. So this section should be rewritten as earlier stated by Syed. Thank You,Usmanumar0821 (talk) 13:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Why Oduduwa in Hausa

What is the meaning of Oduduwa in the Section of Hausa? Oduduwa is the Leader Yoruba tribe, and Hausa people are estimated to be 15 Million not 40 Million as stated in the article...

Fixed by providing a properly sourced population estimate. — mark ✎ 12:36, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Contradictions, Absurdities, and Propoganda

Anyone else think it's weird that this page suddenly lists "roughly 300 million" as the total population at the top?

There were two outlandishly non-neutral POV sections. I deleted both.

The first was on religious violence in Nigeria. First, the section was couched in terms of one religion versus another, when the article is about an ethnic group. Further, there was not a single NPOV sentence which could be saved as an (unverified) factual claim. And, there were no citations. It was made up of subjective and unverifiable claims, interspersed with unreferenced statistics. This may be a valid subtopic for this article, and certainly merits a full article, but there was nothing usable in this section.

The second was the second half of the Religion section. As pointed out above, belief in jinn, the effectiveness of magic, miracles, saints, and the like are all part of orthodox Sunni Islamic belief. (They are, in fact, articles of faith, attested to in the major credal texts.) The section even referred to as specifically un-Qur'anic the "attribution of miracles to Muhammad, and belief in saints," where as the Qur'an quite explicitly attributes miracles to the Prophet and identifies individuals and groups as possessing the qualities of "saints." The section mentioned a procedure of community approval of beliefs which used the term '`ijma' from canonical Islamic law. The author was either: imprecisely describing a real process which should be redescribed and given a citation, creating or repeating a libelous accusation against the people described, or trying to paint the actual orthodox concept of `ijma - one of the foundations of Islamic Law - as anti-Qur'anic. Given the bias exhibited in the rest of the section I assumed it was one of the latter two, and deleted it with the rest.

The article remains a mess. Notably it cites two different centuries for the introduction of Islam to the Hausa, there are no citations, and the writing is generally sloppy and imprecise, with hints of either bias or 'original research' (i.e. unverifiable opinion) scattered throughout.

IQAG1060 04:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite needed

I think this article needs a rewrite, since their isn't really much encyclopedic information once you have cut away the biased and/or unverifiable content. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0001-9720%28196807%2938%3A3%3C253%3ATOOTN%27%3E2.0.CO%3B2-5&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage is one link which may be of use. I'll start working on this eventually. Picaroon (t) 04:14, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I've started a draft at User:Picaroon/Hausa people. If anyone else wants to work on it with me, we can move it to Talk:Hausa people/Rewrite. Picaroon (t) 21:30, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to work a bit on the history section, but I'd prefer not to do so in off-mainspace seclusion. I believ the improvements and discussion, unless it gets outright hostile, should be kept here as much as possible.

Peter 12:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Africa project importance rating

I added a "High" importance to this for the Africa project (perhaps colored by it being VERY high importance to Niger). I've got my hands full at the moment, but I'd like to nudge some other folks in the direction of working here. T L Miles (talk) 15:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Emmigration/Immigration

The article cites that many Hausa are moving to the coastal cities of Lagos, Accra, Kumasi, and Cotonou as well as to Libya. There are no sources for this information and I can find no reference in any article I have seen that puts a Hausa in Libya. Even this Wiki does not list Libya as a country the Hausa reside in. Although I'm unsure of the cities, I do think that the Libya reference should be deleted. SireEby (talk) 07:26, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

There certainly are Hausa in Libya, particularly now with economic migrants from Niger and Northern Nigeria looking for work in the large cities. The BBC has reports that mention this fact including from: . Also an article from All Africa.com begins: Tens of thousands of Nigeriens work in Libya There's a LONG history of trans-Saharan trade between Libya and Niger. The first missionaries to the Hausa actually first went to Tripoli to learn the language at the end of the 19th century because of the size of the Hausa trading community and the relative ease to enter Tripoli. See --193.251.220.110 (talk) 18:59, 15 September 2009 (UTC)Tom Johnson The Hausa settled in Libya through the trans-sahara trade. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.184.236 (talk) 07:14, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Hausa people

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Hausa people's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Falola":

From Muhammadu Attahiru I: Falola, Toyin (2009). Historical Dictionary of Nigeria. Lanham, Md: Scarecrow Press.
From Bantu peoples: Toyin Falola, Aribidesi Adisa Usman, Movements, borders, and identities in Africa, (University Rochester Press: 2009), pp.4-5.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:33, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Genetics for ethnic groups RfC

For editors interested, there's an RfC currently being held: Should sections on genetics be removed from pages on ethnic groups?. As this will almost certainly result in the removal of the "genetics" section from this article, I'd encourage any contributors to voice their opinions there. --Katangais (talk) 20:04, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Need for major edit on “Hausa People”

Hello everyone. I am Ppdallo and new to Misplaced Pages editing. I discovered that the information presented about Hausa people on this page is woefully inadequate and in many respect biased to say the least. As a result I intend to make major edits with full and verifiable references and would like any like minded Wikipedian to join me in straightening out the records and make Misplaced Pages a better reservoir of correct info. Any one with any suggestions and or ideas is welcome, too. Cheers Ppdallo (talk) 21:37, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Now I start pointing out the FAKE informations about Hausa people and debunking them one after another. 1. Hausa population in Nigeria = 30 million; I refer to CIA World Fact Book where Hausa people are listed as 27.4% of Nigeria’s 190.6 million which amounts to 52.2 million Hausas in Nigeria and I believe it should be accurately reflected on here. Ppdallo (talk) 06:50, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

2. This makes Hausa people the largest ethnic groups in the whole of Africa (especially when you add the millions of Hausas in Niger and the many millions others across west and east Africa.) and not just one of the largest as is erroneously recorded here on Misplaced Pages. Also Joshua project recorded 1.03 million Hausasa in ivory cost as against the 224,000 recorded here. Ppdallo (talk) 06:58, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

3. Now I move on to where it was recorded that Hausa people have mixed with Yoruba and Shuwa incorporating the clothing style and foods into Hausa customs. Well, I first dwel on the food aspect. I hereby categorically state that the local food of the Yoruba is over 80% derived from cassava and even the most famous Yoruba food is called Gari Garri, which is a Hausa word for “powdered grain) from pounding grains for food. Secondly, the Hausa have cultivated the sweet cassava varieties for centuries long before the Yoruba got cassava from the Portuguese in the the late eighteen century (Muoneke and Njoku) 2008. Ppdallo (talk) 07:08, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Why this picture second time?178.255.168.58 (talk) 17:45, 28 March 2020 (UTC)Jiří Gregar

Proposal for new WikiProject

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recent edits

Ppdallo, please discuss your proposed changes to the article here, rather than just adding them in regardless of whether others are reverting you or not.

As a starter, Misplaced Pages - or more specifically a Misplaced Pages article - cannot be used to support a claim in another article in Misplaced Pages. If you want to do this, you should look in the article itself and extract the source you wish to use and re-insert it into the article you are trying to improve. You can't just say "Look at the article" - you have to provide the data requested. Chaheel Riens (talk) 18:58, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

The source https://www.ethnologue.com/language/hau doesn't support the claim that "the second most widely spoken language after Arabic in the Afroasiatic family of languages". It give numbers regarding how many poeple speak it, but does not corroborate that these numbers make it number two. Chaheel Riens (talk) 19:35, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Hausa Language as Afroasiatic

Hello Esiymbro, Chaheel Riens. Pls join me to discuss this issue once and for all. I provided two different reliable citations which you rejected for no apparent reason and continue to engage me in an unhealthy edit war. What is your real reasons aside from my bad English grammar (as charged by Chaheel Riens) and citation as requested by Esiymbro? Ppdallo (talk) 06:15, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Well, the first question would be why haven't you yourself addressed the questions I raised directly above this section? Your citations are not reliable, for reasons that I made perfectly clear each time. I also initiated discussion in the section above - Recent Edits and pinged you, so you'd be aware. I also informed you on your talk page what was going on - as well as reminding you about civility over one of your edit summaries.

First "citation" wasn't actually a citation, but just a link to Afroasiatic languages - I stated in my reversion that you cannot use Misplaced Pages as a reliable source to back up a claim.
You reverted, and reinserted the exact same reference, but with the bizarre edit summary claim that I am " obviously are up to some mischief". If you can't use a source once, you can't use it twice.
This time you provided an off-wiki reference, so I checked it out. The reference makes no claim anywhere that Hausa is the second most prolific language spoken, it only states the numbers - but crucially these numbers are not then compared to other languages, so there is no way to be sure where it stands in the rankings. So again, I reverted and once again that left it with a {{cn}} tag - as it should be.
You again reverted, this time saying you'd taken it to the talk page. But you didn't. Only now have you come here and started discussion, ignoring the one I already started yesterday.

In a nutshell: Your sources are inadequate to support your claims, and the reasons for this have been given each time. All you have to do is find a reliable source that explicitly states "Hausa is the second most prolific Afroasiatic langauge" - and we're good.

As an aside - I had a look at Afroasiatic languages, and the source there for rankings is the same as the one you used here, ie inadequate, so I've tagged it there as well. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:29, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Ppdallo, I notice that you've requested page protection - that was a pretty pointless endeavour as all editors concerned are auto-confirmed so can still make changes. However, the reason you requested it is "Edit war by other editors" - that's somewhat contentious given that you're the one who started it, and made no less than 4 reversions to the segment in question - one over the 3RR bright line - I think you should apologise for what is a deceptive comment. Chaheel Riens (talk) 14:22, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Hello Chaheel Riens. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Pls read on below as i try to respond to issues you raised here:

I actually did not receive the notice of your "ping" up until now. I noticed it("recent edits" is not a clear heading. It might as well be referring to another editors edits) only after i had opened this section.You also did not inform me on my talk page about what was going on here. you only issued me with stern directives and accused my edit summaries as "personal attack". In another of your edits on my talk page you issued me with high level warning, which i reverted.
Esiymbro was the first to revert my edit with edit summary "Article's about the people not the language" which i reverted with edit summary "Article is about the people as well as their language, Hausa Language is Afroasiatic". You then came along and reverted my edit with the bizarre edit summary "Grammatically incorrect statement - "second largest language", which i reverted with some corrections on the grammar(by the way I learned English second hand). Esiymbro again reverted with summary edit "Citation needed". I cited Misplaced Pages page and you reverted with edit summary "Misplaced Pages cannot be a reference unto itself". I provided yet another citation outside Misplaced Pages and you still reverted my edit. That was when it dawned on me that you were not sincere with your edits of Hausa people page. This is because i corrected the grammar and you were still looking for other excuses to keep reverting my edits. I reverted with edit summary " obviously are up to some mischief" and you exploded with all sorts of warnings including high level ones, one of which i reverted. Anyways lets discuss the real issue at hand,
Do you honestly believe that Misplaced Pages will grow if editors like you will dictate the exact wordings for citations/sources from other editors such as what you request from me here in bracket ( "All you have to do is find a reliable source that explicitly states "Hausa is the second most prolific Afroasiatic langauge" - and we're good.")?
I thought all you needed to do after i corrected the grammar, which was what you should have done in the first place and not just removed my edit, was to tag it with your "better citation needed" as you did on Hausa Language in the demographics section of Afroasiatic languages article(mind you all the other languages in that section use citations from the same source as Hausa Language and i expected you to equally tag them the same way as well). As an aside, are you sure you have fully examined that citation in the demographics section of the Afroasiatic page, as you claimed? It is not fully open to public and you needed to register to read the full article, which the person that originally cited it might have done?
In conclusion, I intend to still revert your edit while expecting you to tag it the same way you did in the demographics section of Afroasiatic languages article (Pls don't forget to tag all the other languages in that section the same way as well). I should think that's fair?

Ppdallo (talk) 07:38, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Dear me. I'll ignore the additional personal attack, as it's somewhat mild, and I suspect you're just frustrated so ranting to let off steam. The "real issue at hand" is that your edits don't meet the minimum requirements to stay in an article. I appreciate that English is not your first language, but that doesn't exclude your edits from the same level of scrutiny as anybody elses. If you choose to ignore suggestions and warning each time you transgress, this will just continue until you're blocked.

Re: Afroasiatic languages - please check again, I have tagged the entire Demographics section, using the {{sources|section|date=April 2021}} template. And no, I haven't registered to fully check the source, but that's somewhat irrelevant - as I pointed out in my edit summary - different dates are used to ascertain the numbers, so it's not apples for apples in a comparison. Also, having a source that can only be verified by registration is not forbidden, but alternatives are preferred - hence the better sources needed tag.

No, your suggestion is not fair. It's one thing to already have poor sources in an article and to subsequently request clarification or better ones, but a completely different issue to introduce poor sources and hope for them to stay. WP:OTHER exists to counter any argument of "It's OK in article 'A' so should be in article 'B' as well."

You've apparently been here a while, so should be familiar with Wiki policies - including noticing that you had been pinged in the recent edits section when it was created by the little orange icon lighting up in the top banner - but just to be sure, please read up on the following which may help you: WP:RELIABLE, WP:NPA, WP:NOTIFY and WP:EW. Chaheel Riens (talk) 09:48, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

I had been pinged on recent articles over what? Stop the empty threats! Why didn't you tag all the other languages in the demographics section along with Hausa Language at the same time? Why was it only after I exposed how mischievous and selective your edit was? I can see what you are up to now. It is clear who is frustrated here you or me? Haha. Stop your empty threats of blocking me just because you consider yourself an experienced editor or something.I don't care who or what you think you are on Misplaced Pages. People like you are a big minus to reputable platforms like Misplaced Pages and should be exposed. I now await response from Esiymbro for final consensus. Ppdallo (talk) 10:32, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

You're kind of correct in my frustration - I'll add that you should look up WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and WP:CIR as well. All your points have been addressed - before you brought them up in fact, and you're either choosing to ignore them or are unable to recognise them. Also, please indent your replies correctly, as per Help:Talk_pages#Indentation. Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:47, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Why then did you have to single out Hausa Language for yet another tag? Ppdallo (talk) 10:58, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Because the Hausa language entry was the one that prompted the action, and was the source (no pun intended) of the investigation that all other references are inadequate as well. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:30, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Comments

The Hausa are the largest ethnic group in sub saharan Africa and the second most widely spoken language after Arabic in the Afroasiatic family of languages. This does not make sense. Either the Hausa is a people, or it is a language. Plus, the article is Hausa people. The statement about the language does not belong here, certainly not right at the beginning of the article.
I do not see any citation for the religion makeup. The numbers seem to have been changed several times recently. They need a source, or they should be removed. Esiymbro (talk) 11:16, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate your response but please note:

The grammar has been corrected to now read "are the largest ethnic group in sub saharan Africa with the second most widely spoken language after Arabic in the Afroasiatic family of languages."
The article is about Hausa people and their culture, an essential part of which is their language.

Ppdallo (talk) 11:37, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Ppdallo, but it's not adequately sourced. That's the crux of the issue. The source you're trying to use is out of date, requires registration, and is comparing other years in a list in a different article. Until you recognise that and find a source that specifically states the ranking of the language, you're going to have to accept that it may be challenged - as it has. Also, despite your opinion - you have two editors challenging the actual validity of inclusion regardless of whether you source it or not. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:30, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Chaheel Riens, You are an inconsistent individual and therefore not in any position to dictate to other editors your own definition of what a source/citation should be. Quit writing to me.Ppdallo (talk) 20:58, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

I've been highly consistent. I've consistently maintained that your edits are inadequately sourced, and as such need work before they can be included. You can ask me to stay off your talk page - which as a courtesy I'll do - but you can't tell me to stay off an article page that is under discussion. My own definition is based on that of WP:RELIABLE - what is yours? Chaheel Riens (talk) 21:05, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

This particular sentence you are so fixated on cites the same source as the entire demographics section of the Afroasiatic Language article on account of which no editor has yet removed, not even you. I am done discussing with you on this issue. Just waiting a few more days before I revert it.Ppdallo (talk) 21:55, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Please don't "wait a few more days before revert it" - that will almost certainly be classified as edit warring, and probably won't end well. This is clearly contentious as two editors have reverted you, and no matter what your opinion is there is obviously dissension regarding it and you have no consensus for inclusion.

I haven't removed the Afroasiatics demographics section because I templated it to give other editors a chance to look and fix the problem first. It's considered good etiquette to wait around a month before removing templated data - which I'm prepared to do - but it's a completely different matter to try and use challenged sources in a new scenario as you're attempting here. Ethnologue requires registration before any meaningful data can be seen. It cannot be verified.

On the other hand - this edit is perfect. It's exactly what is expected and required. the percentage of religion was challenged, and you have come back with a source that unequivocally states that Islam has the greatest percentile of 99.85%. All you have to do is find a source that's as clear and simple for the language as well. Chaheel Riens (talk) 10:36, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Chaheel Riens Just to let you know, I have reverted it. I think any attempt from you to revert it again will almost certainly be classified as vandalism, and probably won't end well.Ppdallo (talk) 16:27, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

What in Hell are you up to? Are you intentionally trying to provoke some kind of reaction? Your behaviour is just unfathomable. You've actually provided a perfect source to back up your claim, and yet you're still trying to insert the inadequate reference. Just stop, please, for the sake of the soul of Misplaced Pages, just stop. Chaheel Riens (talk) 16:32, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

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