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Generic PTMs

I'd suggest giving Kingston upon Hull as an example (unlike Newcastle upon Tyne) that is listed for its generic part (Hull) as well as its specific (Kingston). Obviously some places like Melton Mowbray have 2 specific parts and some like Golders Green have 2 generic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:15, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

It isn't easy to think of two-part names where both parts are specific and might be used alone, but Kingston upon Hull is an excellent example. The best I can come up with is Augustus Caesar; usually known as Augustus, but the Caesar of the New Testament. Narky Blert (talk) 20:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Asura

Not sure where to go with this - Asura has been moved to Asura (Hinduism) without any discussion (that I can find) and Asura is now a redirect to Asura (disambiguation). I'm not sure if the move(s) should be reverted or the DAB page moved to Asura. Leschnei (talk) 14:20, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

The dab now has 1245 incoming links from article space alone, which suggests that the move needs discussion rather than boldly dumping the cleanup on us. The new situation is WP:MALPLACED, so Something Must Be Done. What to do depends whether there's a primary topic. Asura (Buddhism) has 2082 incoming links, which seems sufficient to stop anything else such as Asura (Hinduism) being primary. I would say move Asura (disambiguation) → Asura and fix the links to dab. 90% of them will be about Hinduism, but it probably needs an expert in Asura rather than disambiguation to work out which 90%. Certes (talk) 15:39, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

@Leschnei and Certes: Sorry I'm new, that's why, I was unaware such problem might occur, but I think, I've directly redirected the Asura page to Asura (Hinduism) and therffore the links linking it, as per I remember. May be I've done some mistake. But you can directly redirect the Asura page to Asura (Hinduism). Also, I was thinking that there was no need to discuss for this move, as it was non-controversial edit, I think. Thinking of my previous edita, I splitted moved many pages, where I started the discussion, But these discussions were not so responsive, which led me think this time, no one will have issue, (which really no one do), but only thing is problem occured which I think is from my end. Of course, more than 90% are related to Hinduism only, as the article is for hHindu point of views on asura, which is different from Buddhist, which also already exist. I've edited the title naming as per guidelines, which will differ it from Buddhist one.JaMongKut (talk) 06:49, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@Leschnei and Certes: Yeah, that is also right that Asura(Hinduism) should not be primary. But, that was not my point while editing, it was I think my careless mistake. But I support your view too. I will then try to fix this by linking it to specific, but will need some time. Help from anybody else, who knows about asuras, is also welcoming to do this work faster.JaMongKut (talk) 06:57, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Do I have to go and change the link in every article or there's any other alternative method, which will benefit the time ?JaMongKut (talk) 07:17, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@JaMongKut: An argument can be made that the Hinduism page is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC given the larger number of page views that it receives. Given that this was an undiscussed move, I'll move the pages back with no prejudice if you decide that an WP:RM is worthwhile for you to start. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 09:47, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

A RM might reveal a few points that we've not considered. For example, do mentions such as this refer to both Buddhist and Hindu Asura collectively, and do they share enough common features for a broad-concept article? (Related articles such as Ahura may also be relevant.) If consensus is found for a move, a RM might also attract helpers with the knowledge to fix the links. I would probably support the move but I still think it's controversial enough to discuss. Certes (talk) 10:27, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@Certes and Bagumba: I was earlie`r thinking the same that the Asura article should be one for Both the religious viewswoth different sections only. But as they both were very long, I thought it will be beneficial to keep them as it is. Yeah they share too many common feature to be a broad concept article,, in fact it is the same concept sshared by the two religions, like many other concepts as these two religions do. When I started my work of the links which for some articles, I've already changed, there were many articles which require combined link of the concept of Asura, rather than of the views of the religion.

My RM was also worthwhile, as it was to distinguish between the two article. As the Asura article was from a Hindu point oof view, rather than all inlusive concept article. Hence the titile seems to be of both ideologies. Hence to differentiate it from the Buddhist one, which was earlier there in the format. The views count was also from this fact, as some links which I changed were requiring Buddhist article really, but they were linked here, because editors thinking that it was a common one, sharing buddhist views too. Hence, for all the above reasons, I think my move was worthwhile.

The redirect problem, as I told earlier was just a careless mistake( I think ot was because there exist one more page named as Asuras which I think I redirected to Hindu article instead.). I was otherwise also redirecting it to Hinduism only. But I like the idea of @Certes: if not prefering. Hence, I also started the work for changing links. But as you mention point of page views is worthy for prefering, about that what I think I've already shared above.JaMongKut (talk) 14:45, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

JaMongKut: My RM was also worthwhile ...: To be clear, you directly moved the page, you did not initiate a WP:RM. That's OK. If it gets contested, like it was, that's when you must submit an RM if you still believe a move is best. ... it was to distinguish between the two article: It's not always necessary to distinguish the articles if WP:PRIMARYTOPIC applies (which it conceivably may not here). Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 17:37, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@JaMongKut: Check my veiws on Talk:Asura .245CMR.• 16:01, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@Leschnei, Certes, Bagumba, and 245CMR: I really don't know what you mean by submit a RM. I might require more time to make myself familiar with different Misplaced Pages terms. Could you please explain, what you mean by it? Also, we cannot call it primary based on the views as, when I were checking links to the Page, more than 50% of the links require a broad-concept or a common article of Asura and not of any specific religions, few, around 10% were requiring Buddhist article. So, as I already stated in above articles, this article was benefitted beacuse editors thinking it of a Broad-concept article,(not their mistake because reading the name of the article(i.e. only "Asura" also suggest that it might be an broad-concept article). What I think at last, instead of moving it to a Hindu article or keeping it as it is, we should convert that page as a broad-concept article, by adding some Buddhist information. Which will deliberately satisfy the need of a Broad concept article, which is much more required. Please respond, will it be a good idea?

@245CMR: As per I searched, I got many Buddhist Japanese books on Asura and various other books too. Also, I think this point is not proper. For views, I've already discussed, please read above.JaMongKut (talk) 07:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

JaMongKut: Sorry about that. To "submit an RM", see WP:RM#CM for instructions on requesting controversial and potentially controversial moves. As for only changing the content of the page, I am not familiar with the subject. If you are unsure, I suggest making a proposal for you content changes at Talk:Asura. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 07:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@JaMongKut: Out of the top books, most of them were about Asura of Hindu concepts and only one book was related to Buddhist poetry. .245CMR.• 08:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

WP:WikiProject Hinduism and WP:WikiProject Buddhism may be able to advise whether a single article covering Asura in both (all?) religions would be useful and, if so, whether it should be the primary topic with the title Asura. Certes (talk) 11:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Bagumba: ThankYou for your information and support. I find myself quite familiar with the topic, so can I can edit it without a proposal ? As the discussion is already discussed here. Other editor's help is also quite expected for editing. JaMongKut (talk) 08:36, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

JaMongKut: Be bold at your discretion. Good luck. —Bagumba (talk) 09:03, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Bagumba: Thank You So Much.JaMongKut (talk) 09:24, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@245CMR: I think that google search results might be personalized, based on our earlier interests. Also, I think they might differ based on different geographical locations.JaMongKut (talk) 08:42, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@JaMongKut: Wait before you change anything. Are you planning to merge Asura (Buddhism) to Asura. If no, then I support removing Asura to Asura (Hinduism), but Asura should be redirected to it as per primary. .245CMR.• 14:02, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

No I'm not merging the two. Instead I'm converting it into a broad-concept article as per above discussion, including the points of both religius views. I think it was earlier also an broad-concept article, but was changed to Hindu, because of many edits, in course of time, by seeing page history. JaMongKut (talk) 14:42, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@JaMongKut: No, I don't think it will help as Buddhism has already a separate article. .245CMR.• 15:36, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Bohemian

I'm contemplating a WP:RM, in which Bohemian would become a DAB page at that basename. However, I can't make my mind up as to where the existing page should be moved. Neither Bohemians nor Bohemian people would do; both are still ambiguous. Suggestions would be welcome.

To highlight the issue, I recently checked the inlinks. There were 480. 1 related to an Iron Age culture, 12 to Bohemian style, 3 to Romani (including in India), and there were a couple of other sillies. However, 183 related to Bohemianism; and included such selected gems as "a bohemian life of drugs and work as an exotic dancer". "renouncing his bohemian youth" (in an article about a straight American composer!), and "drunken and promiscuous bohemian motorcyclists" (in California). Narky Blert (talk) 18:07, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

The least bad option I can come up with is the non-standard People of Bohemia. Yes, bohemian with a small b means something completely different, and (unlike Wiktionary) we don't consider initial capitals when routing page requests. Certes (talk) 21:41, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

How about Bohemians (ethnic group)?

Whether or not a reattributed proper adjective loses its capital in English, and how quickly, looks arbitrary. It's Gothic architecture and Gothic novel, but gothic music and goth subculture; there are quotations in those last two articles with capital 'G'. In mathematics, it's Hamiltonian function but abelian function. Narky Blert (talk) 08:18, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

I finally got around to it, Talk:Bohemian#Requested move 24 April 2021. Narky Blert (talk) 16:05, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Brigadoon

I ran into an interesting situation working on Brigadoon (disambiguation). The most prominent uses, of course, are the original 1947 musical (the primary) and its adaptations. But there is also the unrelated Brigadoon (The Ancestors album). The issue is that Brigadoon (album) doesn't exist, and there are no articles for any of the cast or film soundtrack recordings that users might be looking for (or any other album using that title, for that matter), but there is what seems like a pretty good list of stage, film, and television soundtrack recordings at Brigadoon#Recordings. So I see three possibilities that I'd appreciate feedback on:

1. Move Brigadoon (The Ancestors album) to Brigadoon (album) and add a hatnote pointing to Brigadoon#Recordings.
2. Create Brigadoon (album) as a redirect to Brigadoon#Recordings and add a hatnote to that section pointing to Brigadoon (The Ancestors album).
3. Create Brigadoon (album) as a redirect to Brigadoon (disambiguation) and note somewhere on that page that the primary-topic article includes a list of cast/soundtrack recordings.

Any thoughts welcome.—ShelfSkewed Talk 17:46, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@ShelfSkewed: Having only just seen this, I was going to say "Option A" but I see that's the one you chose, so you can rest assured at least one other agrees with you! Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:22, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

BBC (sexual slang)

Please see: Talk:BBC (disambiguation)#BBC as a porn/sexual term – apparently the entry to for the sexual term keeps getting censored off the disambiguation page, despite there being an ideal article section to point to.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:30, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Piute Spring

Piute Spring previously included one blue link (Piute Spring (San Bernardino County, California)) and five orphan red links with GNIS references. I have redirected the page to Piute Spring (San Bernardino County, California), but kept the red links - commented out. It seems that Piute Spring (San Bernardino County, California) should be moved to Piute Spring as the primary topic. I wanted to get opinions here before listing it at WP:RM#TR to make sure that it wouldn't be controversial. Leschnei (talk) 13:05, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

None of the redlinks has any inlinks, and none is mentioned in the bluelinked targets which you commented out. I see no objection to your proposal. IMO Piute Spring (San Bernardino County, California) should be kept as a redirect to the basename to avoid breaking links, tagged as {{R from unnecessary disambiguation}}. Narky Blert (talk) 10:32, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Narky Blert. Leschnei (talk) 20:35, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Sadie Thompson articles

Hi everyone. I need some help figuring out what to do with disambiguating Sadie Thompson, Sadie Thompson Inn, Sadie Thompson (opera), and Sadie Thompson (musical). I personally think there is no primary subject, and the Sadie Thompson should be moved to Sadie Thompson (film), but that page is currently a redirect and I can't move the film there. Thoughts?4meter4 (talk) 03:49, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

@4meter4: Post a request at WP:RMTR#Uncontroversial technical requests to move Sadie Thompson to Sadie Thompson (film), and include a link to this discussion. The rationale should be WP:NOPRIMARY. If the move is made, create a DAB page at the basename and WP:FIXDABLINKS. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the inlinks are wrong; they usually are in cases like this.

The pageview analysis is little help. Because there is neither hatnote nor DAB page, it's impossible to tell how many people found themselves reading about the 1928 film when they were actually looking for something else. Your article on the musical is too new to appear in that analysis, even for its new-page bounce. There's also the 1953 film Miss Sadie Thompson, which I consider a full-title match for DAB purposes; someone looking for the film which starred Rita Hayworth might forget the precise title. The two films should be hatnoted to each other. Readers might also be looking for the heroine in the distinctly well-known "Rain" (short story) itself or in Rain (1932 film) (starring Joan Crawford), which should be see-alsos on a DAB page.

If you would like further help, {{ping}} me. Narky Blert (talk) 11:13, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much! That was very helpful. I went ahead and put in a request.4meter4 (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Interlanguage links (RfC follow-up)

This is a continuation of Misplaced Pages talk:Disambiguation/Archive 54#After the RfC. The RfC established there is rough consensus that interlanguage links are appropriate in some circumstances. We need to update the guidelines, because their current wording (in the footnote) is incompatible with this result.

WP:DABSISTER currently reads:

Disambiguation entries should not be created for topics whose only content is on sister projects. Links to Wiktionary may be appropriate in some contexts.

1. There is no consensus about exempting links to Wikipedias in other languages from this prohibition (this was discussed in 2018 and in 2019).

How about adding one sentence about interlanguage links and replacing the footnote with a brief explanation like the following?

Disambiguation entries should not be created for topics whose only content is on sister projects. Links to Wiktionary may be appropriate in some contexts. Entries with an interlanguage link pointing to an article in a wikipedia in another language may also be acceptable in some circumstances.

1. As discussed in 2020. A minimum requirement for such an interlanguage link is that the corresponding English Misplaced Pages article has not yet been created. There is no agreement on what further constraints are necessary.

Any thoughts? – Uanfala (talk) 13:29, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

It would be nice if there were further agreement to document, but I think that's a fair summary of the current situation. Certes (talk) 14:35, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

I prefer that to the current wording, which I find tiresomely restrictive; I often ignore it (though WP:COMMONSENSE applies). I find {{ill}} links on DAB pages extremely useful. Not only does it speed up DABfixing (less rummaging around to find if an article exists somewhere - especially in non-Roman scripts), but it helps in unifying redlink qualifiers. On the other hand, I've never felt any temptation to link to a SISTER project on a DAB page; except for adding missing {{wikt}} links at the top (per that template's documentation). Narky Blert (talk) 06:49, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Feedback needed with Pink and blue

When I recently searched for "pink and blue", I was very surprised to be taken directly to Pink and Blue, a song by Hannah Diamond (who?). I was expecting to get either a disambig page, or a Misplaced Pages search result page with an article high up in the search results about the history of how it is that we associate pink with girls, and blue with boys. Turns out, there is no article precisely about that, and no disambig page for the term. I eventually found List of historical sources for pink and blue as gender signifiers, which is not quite what I was looking for, but it's pretty close, and it has some good links which answer the "pink and blue" history question. (Note also that Pink is for girls currently redirects to this List article, but Blue is for boys does not.)

Anyway, imho this song by whatsername cannot be the PRIMARYTOPIC for pink and blue. So I searched around, and just created Pink and blue (disambiguation), which I hope will also help stimulate conversation here about whether there's a primary topic for "pink and blue" or not. I think what probably needs to be done, is to rename the song to Pink and Blue (song), and rename the D-page to Pink and blue. If you know how to deal with clickstream files, I'd love to hear where people who search for "pink and blue" usually end up. When you think of "pink and blue", do you think of the song, first? (As a postscript: the disambig page I just created probably needs pruning/reorg/tweaking to get it right, so your help would be appreciated there as well.) Thanks, (please  mention me on reply; thanks!) Mathglot (talk) 02:47, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

You could move the dab to Pink and blue first per WP:DIFFCAPS, in the same way that Iron maiden and Iron Maiden legitimately describe different topics. (Is there a better example with a dab at the sentence-case name?) Pink and Blue needs some sort of hatnote, once we've decided what it should link to, especially because of the painting. Pink & Blue should probably be merged into the new dab, as there are no articles titled Pink & Blue (qualifier). Certes (talk) 11:59, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Food and drink is a disambiguation page, that includes Food and Drink as an actual article. That was a fun search! DMacks (talk) 13:49, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@DMacks: I've no idea what Food and Drink is, but if I wanted to find an article about food and drink pairings (and now I do!), I'd search "food and drink". Alas, strangely, we don't have that article (except for wine and a redirect to a section on beer). Again Misplaced Pages is missing an important broad scope article and the two separate links to food and drink make me none the wiser. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:33, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Dmacks:, yes, it seems quite analogous to that situation, or to others, like Salt and pepper. Btw, shouldn't List of websites about food and drink be there, as well? What about, List of books about food and drink, List of films about food and drink, or List of food and drink magazines? Mathglot (talk) 17:02, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Someone looking for information on the gender associations of those colours might just as well search for Blue and pink. Though it's unclear to me whether that should redirect to the list article, redirect to the Pink and blue dab, or something else. I do think the song is primary for the capitalized Pink and Blue form, per WP:DIFFCAPS. When you think of "pink and blue", do you think of the song, first? Yes. The moment I saw this section title on my watchlist, it started playing in my head. But then, I am an unabashed Hannah Diamond stan. ("whatsername" drove a bit of a stake through my heart. Have you even tried listening to the song? It's so good!) Colin M (talk) 13:27, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

• It's intriguing: the article on Gender reveal party refers to "Team Pink and Team Blue" etc, assuming that all readers will know that pink is associated with female and blue with male, but it's not explicitly stated apart from in a picture caption of a sliced cake. So we have an article on the history of the colour associations, but not on their current situation. There's a gap in the encyclopedia here, where these colour associations in 20th/21st-century US and UK (and where else? I don't know) culture needs to be described and explained. We have Pinkstinks, but no clear description of what it opposes. And the question, for a dab page, is not "When you think of "pink and blue", do you think of the song, first?", but "When a reader searches on "pink and blue" what are they most likely to be looking for?": not always the same thing. PamD 16:48, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@Colin M:, lol; I guess I'll have to update my musical repertoire from the Paleolithic; I promise I'll listen to it! I don't agree about the "just as well search for "blue and pink", though; some word pairs just seem to go in a certain order, for no reason I can see: food and drink (why does drink and food sounds so awkward?), black and white, salt and pepper, washer and dryer, bride and groom (but man and wife). The expression pink and blue is in that category for me; perhaps it's a regional thing, and blue and pink works equally well for you? Since there's no fast and hard rule about this, we should have some more forth and back about it from every and each editor who might be interested, so we can hear the cons and pros of the situation and come up with a solution that large and by represents the majority view. Mathglot (talk) 17:03, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

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