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Davidirvine894

Mbsyl

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Mbsyl

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

FDW777 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:38, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Mbsyl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2#Discretionary sanctions (1992 cutoff)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 02:02, 9 May 2021 First attempt to add material to completely the wrong place (the section at Killings of Aaron Danielson and Michael Reinoehl#Statements by officials already deals with some of the ballistics evidence)
2. 08:53, 20 May 2021 Edit wars to repeat previous edit
3. 18:33, 24 May 2021 Edit wars to repeat previous edit
4. 06:06, 07 June 2021 Edit wars to repeat previous edit
5. 23:11, 13 June 2021 Edit wars to repeat previous edit
6. 17:40, 14 June 2021 Edit wars to repeat previous edit
7. 21:14, 16 June 2021 Edit wars to repeat previous edit

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 01:58, 27 January 2020 One year BLP topic ban

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Notified

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

At this point they are a SPA, making no other edits to any other articles, yet just turning up intermittently to try and force their disputed edit through. FDW777 (talk) 21:38, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Mbsyl

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Mbsyl

this is silly. you are doing what you accuse me of, except you are "edit warring" by removing important info that is not mentioned in the article anywhere and saying that it is when it clearly isn't. whereas my "edit warring" is simply returning the information back to the article since it is NOWHERE ELSE IN THE ARTICLE. if you don't like where it is, that's a different debate, but you are just outright obsessively deleting it. you are the one who should be sanctioned.

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Mbsyl

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I'm concerned that Mbysl's comment here ignores that they were directed to add content to a specific section identified by FDW777 (three different times by my count, always with a wikilink to the section). Between that and the edit warring, an indefinite topic ban seems appropriate unless there's a sharp course correction. _signed, Rosguill 19:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Normchou

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Normchou

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Shibbolethink (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Normchou (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:COVIDDS

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 22:12, 16 June 2021 Reverting statements about the scientific consensus several times over several days against WP:BRD. Did not engage in ongoing discussions on the talk page (1 2 3), which indicate consensus-building is resolved or at the very least ongoing.
2. 19:10, 14 June 2021 Same as above
3. 22:01, 16 June 2021 Same as above
4. 23:13, 11 June 2021 Removing well-sourced content against talk page consensus as above
5. 22:31, 11 June 2021 Removing same well-sourced content as above against talk page consensus
6. 21:59, 16 June 2021 removing well-sourced content as above without gathering consensus
7. 20:41, 14 June 2021 More reverts of above without talk page discussion or gathering consensus
8. 14:46, 10 June 2021 Removing "scientific consensus" as above, after being reverted, w/o consensus (although also good edits bundled in with this imo)
9. 19:23, 10 June 2021 Inserting POV content that is WP:UNDUE and not from scientific peer-reviewed sources
10. 18:59, 14 June 2021 Inserting POV content that is WP:UNDUE and not from scientific peer-reviewed sources
11. 20:42, 14 June 2021 Reinserting same content as above in other articles, despite ongoing discussions on both talk pages
12. 17:01, 10 June 2021 Removing NPOV tags without consensus

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 06:29, 26 January 2021 TBAN for 90 days for uncivil behavior and making articles , talk pages , and ANI into a battleground. Also received admonishment for abusing SPI . He has also been accused at SPI, though checkuser was negative . Other users assumed WP:MEATPUPPET. TBAN expired 26 April 2021.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• User has been alerted several times about General sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Normchou has been disruptively editing Investigations_into_the_origin_of_COVID-19 and COVID-19_misinformation since shortly after TBAN expired at the end of April. TBAN was related to uncivil behavior specifically WP:BATTLEGROUND. Worth noting that the original TBAN was after this user made an inappropriate ANI report re: "subtle vandalism" and accusing a "tribe" or "coalition" of editors of "going after" him. AKA a consensus of editors on the talk page. Editor has also received several admonishments for edit-warring in the past related to these exact same behaviors ( ). I would say that now, the editor has tried to go the other direction and avoid conflict by just ignoring discussion altogether, but still reverting and contravening/avoiding ongoing discussions and consensus-building. This is why I would say Normchou is NOTHERE. It feels to me like a case of failing to pound the facts, and so defaulting to pounding the table instead. Suggest indefinite topic-ban, but I'll take whatever I can get to make this article slightly less of a headache.--Shibbolethink 23:44, 16 June 2021 (UTC) (edited)--Shibbolethink 20:26, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Why an indefinite TBAN?

To clarify, Normchou is not only uninterested in reaching consensus on these content questions, he is uninterested in any discussion whatsoever. His main interaction with these articles since the end of his TBAN has been to repeatedly push his POV. Furthermore, he doesn't see anything wrong with this. I'm not sure it would be any better in 90 days. His edits in other areas seem okay (prior edit wars notwithstanding). So maybe it's just COVID that's a big issue.--Shibbolethink 16:16, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Appendices

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

1. 23:43, 16 June 2021 User Notified

Discussion concerning Normchou

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Normchou

My comment is that I have been making edits in accordance with WP:5P, using WP:COMMONSENSE, but have found it extremely difficult to edit this article—which shouldn't be the case if everyone followed the community policies and guidelines on content and conduct—despite the fact that my contribs are still a substantial part of its current form . I have made a similar comment/complaint on the ArbCom case request , which apparently has become the basis of this enforcement request, but in my opinion it has little effectiveness on resolving the underlying COI issue (more background: ).

Re WP:CONSENSUS, "Consensus is Misplaced Pages's fundamental model for editorial decision making, and is marked by addressing legitimate concerns held by editors through a process of compromise while following Misplaced Pages policies." Consensus can be achieved "through editing", "through discussion", and/or through other means. I have tried using the talk page before, but now feel there is so much WP:GAMING by some "experienced editors" such as RandomCanadian to push their POVs that the talk page is barely serving the purpose of "addressing legitimate concerns" or reaching consensus. Their failure to be consistent in applying their own standards ("Science is made by publishing in peer-reviewed journals, not counting opinions.") when facing different POVs says a lot about their purpose of editing this article, , with the latter edit merely citing a "count of opinion" that happened to appear in a single peer-reviewed article.

I have no more diffs to list or talk page records to show here, so please feel free to accuse me of casting aspersions. I do not have the energy for doing any of that stuff and know it could backfire no matter what. Anyone who has edited the article for a while and who does not have a specific agenda/POV to push, however, understands that there is something unusual about editing this article, but I have nothing else to say.

I support discretionary sanctions against "unacceptable" behavior if the sanctions are applied equally to every editor who fits the pattern. I can only suggest the enforcer to scrutinize the revision history of the article and make a well-informed decision. Normchou  17:15, 17 June 2021 (UTC); edited 20:34, 18 June 2021 (UTC); edited 00:42, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

I just wrote an essay to make my case clearer: User:Normchou/Essays/Does common sense point to a lab leak origin? Normchou  04:27, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

@Bradv: I provided an external link to this piece in my personal essay because JS was making fun of people who did not use common sense to make their judgment on the issue (cf. Maybe a pangolin kissed a turtle. Maybe a bat flew into the cloaca of a turkey and then it sneezed into my chili and now we all have coronavirus.) But given your reaction and interpretation, I guess there really is nothing more for me to say. Normchou  05:36, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Berchanhimez

The motion to replace the GS with DS has passed from what I saw, but I'm not sure if all the "formalities" have been done - if not, I would like to see this kept open so that the obviously merited sanction can be applied as a discretionary sanction, logged in the arbitration enforcement for the COVID sanctions, and "more formal" than simply under a GS. I also would like to point out that the problem here isn't so much any one individual edit - it's the covert POV pushing that is flagrantly ignoring due weight policies and attempting to use individual opinions sourced primarily to news articles, not scholarly sources. While merely holding an opinion is not grounds for sanctions, explicitly ignoring discussion and consensus building, as well as this "covert" POV-pushing by using what appears to be reliable sources to override more reliable sources, as well as their flagrant disregard for what is due and undue (by simply including anything they agree with) means that at a minimum, a topic ban from COVID-19 indefinitely should be applied. The user was notified within the past year of COVID-19 general sanctions which will transfer to the DS authority. I'll end by adding this final diff of their response to my pointing out their use of weasel words and "scare quotes" - which gives no faith that they intend to edit appropriately in this area. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 00:06, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

It appears the formalities have been done, so I'll note they were notified 21 January 2021 of general sanctions, and per the remedy/motion: Notifications issued under COVID-19 general sanctions become alerts for twelve months from their date of issue, then expire. As such, this user can be sanctioned under the discretionary sanctions (if uninvolved administrators see it fit, of course). -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 00:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Further comment: Misplaced Pages does not lead, it follows. If "scientific publication" hasn't caught up to scientific consensus (which I don't believe to be the reality here), that's not an excuse for us to violate our normal sourcing policies on scientific material, in which scholarly sources are preferred. Regardless, even if some of this content is merited in some articles in some way, the way this editor has gone about it is absolutely not constructive. Personal beliefs about "scientific consensus" do not trump the fact that it is still an immense minority of scientists giving this credence, and as such, any opposing opinions should be carefully inserted in articles, if at all. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 01:56, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Ched

per WP:AC/DS

"No editor may be sanctioned unless they are aware that discretionary sanctions are in force for the area of conflict." Since the motion being passed was just posted, I don't see how we can retroactively sanction someone. — Ched (talk) 00:30, 17 June 2021 (UTC) (edited: — Ched (talk) 06:18, 17 June 2021 (UTC))

Statement by Adoring Nanny

The conflict in this area is driven by the fact that some users are trying to maintain in article space the idea that there is a scientific consensus on the origin of covid. As of today, that is not the case. All but the last of the above sources all dated within the last month. The scientific publishing process has not kept up with the discussion in the real world. Furthermore, there is press discussion that scholarly papers which take the lab leak hypothesis seriously are being rejected for political reasons. In short, Misplaced Pages policies (such as "academic sources > news reports") are flying in the face of reality. In other words, as a matter of Misplaced Pages policy, there is a scientific consensus that there was no lab leak. As a matter of reality, there is no such consensus. I don't know if we want to reflect our policies or reality. That's above my pay grade.Adoring nanny (talk) 01:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

The question of what definition of "consensus" to use is sufficiently glaring that I just wrote an essay WP:DEFINECONSENSUSESSAY. In particular, when an article uses the word "consensus", does it refer to a Misplaced Pages-consensus or a dictionary.com-consensus? I'd think it refers to a dictionary.com-consensus. But I could be wrong. Adoring nanny (talk) 09:26, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

@Bakkster Man: The complaint makes a big deal of an alleged "scientific consensus" that the zoonosis hypothesis is true. Therefore, it seems reasonable to reply to that issue. I am particularly bothered by the leaking of the definition of "what constitutes a consensus for purposes of a Misplaced Pages discussion" to become a definition of "what is a consensus in the real world". Most readers will understand the word "consensus" with a dictionary.com type meaning, not with a Misplaced Pages-policy type meaning. Therefore, they will consider a sentence like "There is a scientific consensus that COVID-19 is a zoonosis" to be lunacy. By sanctioning NormChou, we are therefore addressing a less-serious problem, while making the more-serious problem worse. Adoring nanny (talk) 23:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

I will say that I agree that the lack of discussion from NormChou is a problem. But last time he was sanctioned in part for too much discussion. So it's not the case that he is ignoring community input. Adoring nanny (talk) 12:41, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

@RandomCanadian: Are you arguing that there is a scientific consensus by the dictionary.com definition of "consensus"? Adoring nanny (talk) 12:07, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by RandomCanadian

The disregard for Misplaced Pages's policy and general preference for lower quality sources, including interpretation of primary sources, is not unique. Particularly troubling elements are the refusal to participate in talk page discussions (the only edits by Normchou on that talk page date from back in January - and they're not much more charming), and the ignoring of sources even when they're literally quoted in the edit summary. The long term, "slow" edit-warring is also disruptive. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 03:04, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

• As to AN's (post above) comments about "reality", Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, not truth is a good reflection of our policies. WP:RS and WP:NPOV both imply that academic and other high quality sources are superior to newspapers, and WP:NOTNEWS details that we're not a newspaper. But anyway, this isn't the forum to litigate policy. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 03:04, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
  • @Geogene: Normchou has been asked multiple times to contribute on the talk page, and has been topic banned before, and is currently disruptively engaging in a "slow-motion" edit war to cleanse the articles of terms that don't suit their opinion (generating much discussion on talk pages, where they have so far failed to participated), as well as casting accusations on other editors (see their comment), as if that would somehow justify them not using the talk page (hint: it doesn't). As for the content dispute, suffice to say that the bigger issue is the perpetual confusion between the two main aspects: the political controversy over the subject has little common ground with the vast majority of scientific inquiries into the matter, and many sources which are totally fine to report on politics are utterly inept at making proper summaries of the science (this is not new, nor unique to COVID - see this excellent comic take on the subject). RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 04:47, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
    • @Adoring nanny: Your claim that "saying there is a scientific consensus is a lunacy" is, to put it bluntly, wrong. For one, a look at actual scientific papers (even recent ones - the trend hasn't changed in the past year AFAICS) will show that the vast majority of them do not even mention a lab leak, and often settle for wordings which strongly favour a zoonotic origin as the accepted, mainstream hypothesis. The media are prone to misrepresenting certainty (or uncertainty), especially when it involves politics (climate change denial - ringing a bell?), and this is not new nor unique to COVID. See this for a comic take on the situation. In either case, go read Misplaced Pages:Verifiability, not truth for why we don't care, even if you are right and the scientists are wrong. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 13:08, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
• @Empiricus If this were the first time, a warning to strictly comply with the regular editing process - namely, to take disputes to the talk page and not in edit summaries, and to not make wild accusations about the intents of other editors (which is valid whether there are DS or not in a topic) - might be enough. However, at this point, that would just be a symbolic non-action which would not do anything to solve the problem. Normchou's talk page archive is also rife with signs that this isn't a new problem, and not one that a few month's break has solved. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:57, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
  • @Adoring nanny: This is not the place to continue the content dispute. I don't care what the dictionary definition is, I care what the scientific sources say about science. And these, indeed, coincidentally, universally seem to agree that the virus is natural (not deliberately manipulated) and also that it very likely has an entirely natural origin. If you don't think so, you're free, as ever, to present the same kind of high quality sources on the relevant talk pages to support your assertions. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 12:36, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
• Note Normchou has just published an essay where he, unironically, alleges that scientists are entirely unethical and that we should throw out peer-reviewed publications because of this, along with some bogus pseudo-mathematics... Clearly, they do not understand our policies and guidelines. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 12:49, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by HalfdanRagnarsson

I second Adoring nanny. Circumstances have changed more than a bit in the past few months, with new questions arising among both the general public and the scientific community. News reports from reliable sources cannot be dismissed only on the grounds of WP:MEDRS; they too are a key source of to-date information, especially on a topic like covid that is quite significant in the public eye. It is true that the volte-face of the past few months is a bit difficult to take at face value, in that what seemed like a conspiracy theory last year now appears quite credible. However, we must avoid getting into a bunker mentality. HalfdanRagnarsson (talk) 04:54, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by WhatamIdoing

I remember the sudden, striking change in the article tenor when User:Rosguill topic-banned Normchou for 90 days. It became less difficult and effortful for everyone/anyone to make small contributions, because editors didn't have to push every single word through a self-appointed gatekeeper.

It appears that the long break did not produce any lasting change in the editor's (in)ability to contribute in line with consensus, and EdJohnston's warnings against edit warring in general do not seem to have had much effect. ("As an admin, I would like to avoid a block but you seem like someone who is very sure you are correct and is not easy to persuade", about this incident). Normchou's edits, taken as a whole, tend to cast doubt on scientific consensus (which is not absolute or unanimous, but which does have a broad direction at this moment) and sometimes seem to have a specific political slant as well. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:50, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Bakkster Man

There are two issues at play. One is the contentious content dispute. This isn't really the venue for resolving that dispute, but it is definitely the backdrop of the case. Uncertainty, a quick moving nature, and allegations of 'cover-ups' in the press all make it more difficult than the standard content dispute. I suggest this means more need for conscientious consensus building and courteous editing than the average content dispute.

The direct issue is whether Normchou's edits amongst that backdrop have been constructive or disruptive. Echoing RandomCanadian, my primary concern is an apparent refusal to discuss and reach consensus through Talk pages, seemingly preferring to edit war and attempting to make his case solely through edit summaries (sometimes arguably WP:POINTY summaries). This makes consensus building more difficult than it needs to be, if not nearly impossible. Particularly contrasting the above edit war behavior with the commendable behavior of Korny O'Near regarding the same dispute where he went to Talk page, participated, and we seem to have resolved the dispute with better wording.

Echoing WhatamIdoing, if this was a first offense I'd hope that a warning and coaching could improve user's consensus building and result in constructive editing. Having been topic banned once before makes me, unfortunately, less hopeful that the user is interested in and willing to improve behavior. Outside of DS and the previous topic ban, this behavior might be tolerable (if annoying). In the context of disruption to a delicate process of consensus building, on pages under GS/DS, and the prior ban, I regrettably agree that further sanctions are necessary. Bakkster Man (talk) 14:54, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

@Adoring nanny: Shouldn't the content/WP:PAG question of "consensus" be taken up in a different venue instead? Any sanction here would seem to be based on whether behavior was appropriate for reaching consensus, not whether Normchou was right or wrong in their position regarding the dispute. Two orthogonal questions; a user can be correct in their interpretation of a policy, but still violate PAGs in a way that's disruptive while attempting to make their point. Bakkster Man (talk) 18:55, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

@Adoring nanny: Understanding the content dispute helps to understand the complaint, but this AE/DS can't and won't resolve the content dispute. Resolving it should start with a request in the right spot. Even if Normchou (or any other editor) is completely correct regarding content, I would suggest they can still break dispute resolution policy and violate DS. Dispute resolution/consensus is the complaint, the content dispute is just the POV behind the alleged disruption. Bakkster Man (talk) 23:25, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Forich

I am sympathetic to Normchou, because I see his edits going in a direction than can improve the articles on Covid's origin. This makes my opinion biased, please note that. The DS rule is a remedy to behaviour described as disruptive, and that "members of a twitter group" engage in "using Misplaced Pages as a soapbox", among other issues listed in the original arbitration request. If Normchou has been disruptive, or if he is a member of the twitter group that misuses Misplaced Pages, he should receive the sanctions per DS. The first allegation , being disruptive is clearly defined. In my opinion, Normchou crossed the line on being tendentious, and ignoring community inputs. I can see why others would think he is not engaging in consensus building, but I disagree with them. On behaviour grounds, Normchou's edit summaries seem complete and reasonable to me, although he falls short on the guideline to "Be prepared to justify your changes to other editors on the talk page". From his statement, he felt that the Talk Page of "Investigations into the origin of COVID-19" was WP:Gaming (deliberately using Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines in bad faith to thwart the aims of Misplaced Pages). Is Normchou using Misplaced Pages as a Soapbox (a medium to express stirred passions on a subject)? I don't believe so, if that was the case he would be writing long opinions and walls of text in talk pages, which is the opposite of what he has done. So, in summary, I think Normchou is guilty of showing tendentious editing, and ignorig community input, and doing it enough number of times to be perceived as disruptive. I suggest we warn Normchou on the specific behaviour of stop being tendentious and ignoring community input. His previous topic ban was made because of WP:Battleground, so I am unsure if it counts as precedent that we should take into account for the current case (it was a different case, IMO). Finally, Normchou's statement was, at times, showing disregard for the inputs of the community, which is a sign that he is not interested in fixing that part of his disruptive behaviour, and should be taken into account in the final decision. Normchou if you are reading this, retract and ammend the attitude inmediately or be prepared to face the consequences. I want to put in the record that I condemm his attitude in that regard. Also, I oppose a definitive ban even if allowed by DS. --Forich (talk) 20:32, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Geogene

I'm concerned that Shibbolethink considers these diffs , as disruptive, claiming that Inserting POV content that is WP:UNDUE and not from scientific peer-reviewed sources. Why does Shibbolethink have a problem with reliably sourced investigative journalism? What PAG requires all content to be sourced from peer reviewed journals? And is the origin of COVID-19 purely a scientific question, or are there social and political dimensions as well? Geogene (talk) 01:26, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Empiricus

I basically agree with Adoring nanny observation. NormChou is an important corrective to one-sided, purely scientific article editing, including by incorporating new aspects of 2021 into the article. For this, as far as the laboratory is concerned, sources other than MEDRS can be used according to our guidelines. NormChou does not do anything else - it is difficult to deduce misconduct from this. Ultimately, it's just a matter of different interpretations and source preferences. That he not much discussed is certainly a problem, but "the consensus logic" of the discussion side is completely unproductive. I can understand this. On the discussion side, the zoonosis theory is treated as truth - the consensus of science, but without proof - and everything that speaks against this, especially the laboratory thesis is a conspiracy theory and is endlessly discussed. Everything what does not fit is selected, for e.g. the important statements of the G7 for a new investigation - is not included. A serious misconduct of NormChou I can`t see, if these would be a warning would be sufficient. A ban would worsen the article quality and remove the article even further from reality. He is a main author of the article and he should continue writing here, maybe seek a little bit more consensus.--Empiricus (talk) 20:00, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by Aeonx

I find Normchou explanation justifiable, and would be disappointed to see Arbitration/DS against Normchou result from a failure in the community to apply to good editing as a community responsibility. I am particularly concerned about the zealous editing, and presumptions of superiority in editing relating to claims about what is a lower quality source or what is/isn't undue weight or the current scientific consensus. Building on Bakkster's comment, I find that generally on the whole Normchou's edits to be NET constructive, whilst certainly not free from disruptive editing, there are positive edits which need to be valued by the community. I also oppose the view disruptive edits are always a bad thing, debate and conflicts in editing are good, they just need to be managed and conducted in a way that is conducive to achieving editorial consensus. Aeonx (talk) 01:41, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by CutePeach

I appreciate Shibbolethink inviting me here but I believe he filed this case too hastily, and it seems to me he did so on the beckoning of RandomCanadian , who is the one who effected the regime change of sanctions to this venue Just the other day, I removed politicians from Investigations_into_the_origin_of_COVID-19#International_politicians'_calls_for_investigations and it was subsequently restored by RandomCanadian as part of a peculiar revert that didn't affect any of the later edits made by Shibbolethink . RandomCanadian’s then revert appears to be part of a well crafted scheme to provoke clashes with other editors, leading to the escalation of our content dispute to this forum where the hope is that administrators will treat it as a conduct issue. Note that this is the second time RandomCanadian restored the politicians title , after Normchou first took it out , so it was only reasonable for Normchou to counter RandomCanadian’s revert, selflessly throwing himself on a grenade aimed at me, leaving the politicians change for me or another editor to defuse. Read further for context.

Before Darouet’s changes , this subsection was originally a section titled "International calls for investigations", which made a lot more sense as an introduction to the subject. Neither Darouet nor RandomCanadian explained their changes on the talk page, and instead reverted Normchou and myself on restorations made to this important introductory section, also without explanation on the talk page. The introduction section of the article now is a ambiguous transclusion from SARS-COV-2 which pushes the actual subject of the article below the fold, which Terjen raised in a discussion here . In a possibly final act of courage as a Wikipedian, I have again removed politicians from the title , added the official WHO source about the World Health Assembly motion , and restored it as the introductory section to the article (notwithstanding a revert attempt by RandomCanadian seconds after I made it). I fully expected RandomCanadian to make this revert, but didn’t know he would get to it within seconds, and now Arbcom should be able to see why editing in the COVID-19 origins topic area has become so precariousness.

If Darouet, RandomCanadian, or any other editor wishes to further revert my abovementioned edits and has valid reasons for doing so, they should start a discussion on the talk page, as per WP:BURDEN. To my knowledge, there are no RSs claiming Australia and Germany’s calls for investigations were politically motivated and the source I added shows this is standard procedure before a WHA. I also created a new Renewed Calls for Investigations section as per the G7 statements reported by CNN , which RandomCandian also reverted a mere minute afterwards. I would also encourage other editors here to participate in the above mentioned discussion started by Terjen, so that we can form proper consensus on how to order and structure the Origins section. Placing the background of the Origins section before a background of the Investigations does not make much sense for an article titled the way it is.

CutePeach (talk) 13:12, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Result concerning Normchou

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Ched, per the motion, notifications issued under COVID-19 general sanctions become alerts for twelve months from their date of issue, then expire. Normchou was notified on 21 January 2021, which makes this request valid. – bradv🍁 00:35, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
• Seeing that Normchou was topic banned for 90 days in January and the diffs provided, I think another topic ban is in order --In actu (Guerillero) 15:11, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
• I'm perplexed by the fact that, in the face of allegations that Normchou prefers low quality sources, they chose to begin their essay with a reference to a clearly satirical bit in a comedy show. – bradv🍁 05:03, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Eatcha

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Eatcha

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Tayi Arajakate (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Eatcha (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan#Standard discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 13:15, 16 June 2021 They create a section with three lines on the article The Wire (India) dedicated to a breaking news item. The addition is solely based on police accounts, is editorialised and uses a number of low quality sources. I condense this addition, remove the low quality sources and move it under a section.
2. 15:17, 16 June 2021 They immediately revert it and start a discussion in Talk:The Wire (India) § White washing. In the discussion, I explain WP:ONUS to them and the issues related to due weight and presentation in their version. But they just end up ignoring all of it and being stuck on what sources should be considered RSes. I eventually end up removing their addition citing onus.
3. 18:09, 16 June 2021 They immediately revert it and leave a template on my talk page. I reply to it again mentioning that the onus is on them to achieve consensus for inclusion and that communication is necessary. Their addition is removed again later by a different editor which prompts them to comment on 21:18, 16 June 2021 that they will start an RfC when they get time.

Following this encounter, I decide to go through some of their other contributions and find a whole bunch of problematic editing, ironically in the article of Uttar Pradesh Police.

1. This entire section called "Corruption and misconduct" was created and filled by them between September 2020 and May 2021 and includes multiple violations of WP:BLPCRIME, in places non notable perpetrators and victims alike are named and in places they state in wiki-voice that a specific person committed a crime without there being a conviction. I had to cleanup the section in Special:Diff/1028876153.
2. I also left a message on their talk to which their reply on 21:12, 16 June 2021 is concerning where they state "I only care about trashing the police..."

1. 12:57, 22 May 2021 Addition of a section called "Yadavisation" in the article of Uttar Pradesh Police filled with original research and poor sourcing, which more or less says that the number of Yadavs (an ethnic/caste group) in the police has increased and that they are causing lawlessness and helping criminals.
2. 15:45, 24 May 2021 Restoration after first removal. They also template the person who had reverted them.
3. 21:15, 16 June 2021 Restoration after second removal. They also template the person who had reverted them. I remove the addition after this. Note that their restoration occurs after all our previous conversations regarding onus and communication. During this entire period since 22 May, they don't even bother to start a talk page discussion.
4. I create a section with a detailed explanation of the issues with the addition in Talk:Uttar Pradesh Police § "Yadavisation" and ping them there but it just seems to prompt them to start an RfC on 03:19, 17 June 2021 for the article of The Wire (India) which is essentially a complaint against me.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

n/a

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Given an alert about discretionary sanctions in the last twelve months, at 16:04, 14 August 2020.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Other than two articles above, I haven't checked their contributions on other articles. The editor has been on Misplaced Pages for a bit over an year now and still doesn't have a grasp of basic policies and proccesses, they either don't seem to read policies or they don't care about them. Their communication is just evasion and aggression, with accusations and inappropriate templating. The date and time in this report are in IST. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 02:11, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the SPI, it was inconclusive, you can see the discussion at User talk:Tayi Arajakate/OArchive. The "SP Eatcha" account is likely just the person behind this account who has been trolling around for some time now and is most likely unrelated. Tayi Arajakate _Talk 08:19, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Special:Diff/1028963604

Discussion concerning Eatcha

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Eatcha

On my actions at Uttar Pradesh Police

• Most of the contents at Uttar_Pradesh_Police#Corruption_and_misconduct are added by me.
• I've tried to use reliable sources and most of the time used the word "alleged". But there are only 2 sources in India considered reliable, we never discussed other sources.
• On Yadavisation of UP Police, see and also . I accept that I should've used more sources from JSTOR search/google books rather than google search.

On my actions at The Wire (India)

• Read the last three sections at https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:The_Wire_(India)&oldid=1028946432
• Misplaced Pages lists 2 Indian news sources as reliable, both of them discuss the issue. Misplaced Pages:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources

-- Eatcha 05:14, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Someone just created a Sock accountUser:‎SP Eatcha of me and reverted the accuser

• I've reported the account and ask for an WP:SPI check of the sock, me, the accuser(Tayi Arajakate) and User:Far from average. I'm sure it's one of us. -- Eatcha 06:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
• Also, note that User:Tayi Arajakate was caught socking, see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Pali Upadhyay/Archive.

Acknowledgement/apology for BRD

• I should have not violated WP:BRD. I accept/admit my mistake and apologize. -- Eatcha 05:03, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

clear commitment to refrain from violation of WP:BRD

• I commit to refrain from violation of WP:BRD again. ---- Eatcha 05:06, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

lines of a statement explaining why your previous actions were wrong

• I made a mistake by not using reliable sources and the reason I didn't used reliable sources is because I never checked the list.
• I also failed to open a RFC when I was asked to seek consensus for my additions and instated used the 3RR to make sure my edit was the final version, and when I finally opened the RFC, it was not neutral and was a list of edits of the accuser and why I think he was biased.
• "I only care about trashing the police...", I shouldn't have used these words. I still don't like the police but I will try to make sure that I don't use these kind of phrases again.
• I should have opened a thread when I was reverted for the second time on the article about discrimination in police departments. And used the sources from Academic journals instead of sources that are not considered reliable on Misplaced Pages.

clarifying how you will deal with editing disputes in the future

• I will make sure to open a neutral RFC when ever I suspect that another editor is biased.
• I will try to disengage, I acknowledge I did the opposite this time.
• I will ask for 3rd opinion and post on India related noticeboards if I feel that I am being reverted unjustly.
• I will not edit any article on Misplaced Pages for one year(until July 2022), I am taking a break form editing articles on English Misplaced Pages. There's no way I will break the policies again if I don't edit any article for a such a long time. Maybe it would be longer than the sanction I was about to receive, I am self-imposing the sanction for the good. I have an another account User:DNAFET, I won't use this account to circumvent the self imposed sanctions. You may block me indef, If I edit any article during this period of self-introspection.
• I sincerely seek your forgiveness and hope you decide to give me another chance.

-- Eatcha 19:43, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by zzuuzz

Just a quick note that the User:‎SP Eatcha account is a troll joe-job, as Tayi Arajakate suggests, and I wouldn't let it influence anything here. -- zzuuzz 09:41, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Eatcha

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Eatcha's response here doesn't address edit warring. In both cases, Eatcha broke with WP:BRD. Unless there is both acknowledgment of their past edit warring and a clear commitment to refrain from doing so again, a topic ban appears to be appropriate. _signed, Rosguill 19:27, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

  Eatcha, by a clear commitment to refrain from doing so again, I meant something more along the lines of a statement explaining why your previous actions were wrong and clarifying how you will deal with editing disputes in the future, not rote repetition of my suggestion. If you can make a convincing promise to engage more productively, then I think a logged warning is perhaps all that is needed at this time. _signed, Rosguill 15:59, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Mercrediaankijker

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Astral Leap

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Astral Leap (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Astral Leap (talk) 09:54, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

You are indefinitely banned from interacting with GizzyCatBella (WP:IBAN), one-way.

Administrator imposing the sanction

El C (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by Astral Leap

To get this out of the way, I was suspected of being a sockpuppet but this was checked and rejected by checkuser at Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Volunteer Marek (deleted). My relations with the editor I am sanctioned from got off to a rocky start after this question following Zezen's block (AN discussion) that I was involved with.

The sanction was imposed on me after two actions on my part:

1. I made a AE report, , that documented a topic ban violation. However, because the editor was reported by other new users previously, and there was a pattern of these reports the topic ban was lifted so that there would be no more reports.

2. I made a ANI report, which I admit was on a minor issue (minor flags). After this was opened, El C placed in short succession on my page:

 a. warning not to do "ad-hoc prosecutions".
 b. discretionary sanction alert
 c. sanction

I think El C was quick here because he suspected me of something else.

This sanction would not be so bad, but it is bad because I am being tormented by the editor who I am sanctioned from. They are addressing me, accusing me, all this while knowing I can't respond:

1. : "Astral Leap I recognize that you are under a one-way interaction ban with me, so I apologize to you AL. I know you can't defend yourself concerning my criticism...."

2. this notification of Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Volunteer Marek was criticized by the clerking admin Blablubbs in the deleted discussion.

3. In Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Volunteer Marek (deleted, can not link) making accusations at me. Even responding to my request to be left alone, with a condescending comment on me responding to a the notification on my talk page.

The last sockpuppet accusation was not the first one. I also faced accusations by this edit in Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/CommanderWaterford/Archive.

I admit my ANI report made a mountain out of a molehill of minor edit summaries. I shouldn't have done it. I will avoid making these kinds of reports against the editor or any editor.

Admins, please either lift this sanction or make it so this editor can not make comments on my either. It isn't fair that I get criticized and tormented like this and I can not respond to it.--Astral Leap (talk) 09:54, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by El C

Except for today, since Feb, the appellant has made a total of 2 edits, so it's difficult to gauge the utility of the (Jan 30) ban, the context of which I admittedly no longer have a firm recollection of. El_C 10:55, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by GizzyCatBella

I’m an editor with whom the appellant has an interaction ban. Just a note of what really happened because the appellant offers a bit twisted version of it. I suffered harassment from numerous brand new accounts, which followed my every edit and kept reverting me or filing bogus reports against me. One of them was, at the time, a junior account of the appellant. Details can be found here (see my closing note at that report). The appellant has been granted an interaction ban with me (and very rightly so) on 30 January 2021. Soon after, on 1 February 2021, they were blocked for one week and eventually, their talk page access was revoked for poking at Volunteer Marek After their block expired, the appellant made a total of 5 more edits on February 15th and went still. On June 9, 2021, I left a note on the appellant talk page regarding the Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Volunteer Marek (now deleted) notifying them that they are being mentioned there. To my surprise, the appellant responded within 4 hours making a post at the investigation and their talk page despite being inactive for 4 months. Admins may want to look at the mentioned (now deleted) investigation for details on how the appellant's name has been brought up there and by whom, since I don't remember anymore. As far as tormenting accusation - this is a total boloney. I referred to the appellant only once after them receiving an IB, and despite me not having an interaction ban with them, I was very thoughtful. That's a quick recap; This appeal should be rejected since there are no reasons for the lift, and .... well, you draw your conclusions. If you need any more information, please ask. - GizzyCatBella🍁 05:51, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

@Seraphimblade - Got it. - GizzyCatBella🍁 19:12, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Astral Leap

Result of the appeal by Astral Leap

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I don't see a compelling reason to overturn this sanction --In actu (Guerillero) 15:12, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
• Like Guerillero, I don't see any substantial reason to overturn the interaction ban, and there is not enough editing activity to determine whether Astral Leap's judgment has improved sufficiently to warrant doing so. That said, GizzyCatBella, I do not think what you did was meant to be poking or provocative, but avoid anything that could even be interpreted that way, and understand how easy such an interpretation is when the other editor is barred from responding to you. If, for example, Astral Leap's participation at the SPI would have been helpful or desired, an SPI clerk could have taken care of making that notification, and that would have been much better that than you doing it. If they didn't think that needed to happen, what was the need for you to go and do it? Basically, absent some absolutely compelling reason to do otherwise, leave Astral Leap alone in return, or the interaction ban may need to be made mutual. Seraphimblade 16:48, 18 June 2021 (UTC)