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Revision as of 23:33, 7 October 2021 editJorm (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Rollbackers7,777 edits →Applying qualifiers without source.: ReplyTags: Reverted Reply← Previous edit Revision as of 23:34, 7 October 2021 edit undoJorm (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Rollbackers7,777 edits Undid revision 1048783950 by Jorm (talk) ugh not gonna botherTag: UndoNext edit →
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As of this writing I've had Jorm revert my edit multiple times and is claiming I'm the one doing disruptive edits for removing unsubstantiated claims. Until there is any source (I'm well aware that Misplaced Pages is about sourcing and not "truth," whether the qualifiers are true or not), there is no reason to include blatantly inflammatory descriptions of these groups. As of this writing I've had Jorm revert my edit multiple times and is claiming I'm the one doing disruptive edits for removing unsubstantiated claims. Until there is any source (I'm well aware that Misplaced Pages is about sourcing and not "truth," whether the qualifiers are true or not), there is no reason to include blatantly inflammatory descriptions of these groups.
I'll revert my edit back and request a source either be provided or explain why these terms should be included. I'm hoping we can be more civil with this and not continue to cause issues in cleaning up the article. ] (]) 23:01, 7 October 2021 (UTC) I'll revert my edit back and request a source either be provided or explain why these terms should be included. I'm hoping we can be more civil with this and not continue to cause issues in cleaning up the article. ] (]) 23:01, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

:I think you're headed for a topic ban, mate. I'm done with you. ] (]) 23:33, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

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What exactly are the "far-right" views of this group (none are specifically mentioned)?

As it stands, it just seems designed to slander the group (Patriot Prayer), without offering any evidence of "far-right" activities or views. It seems the only such activities are its recurring confrontations with the far-left group Antifa?151.143.51.84 (talk) 01:09, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Let's be honest, we all know why it's in the first paragraph. Don't waste your time arguing with propagandists, i mean that sincerely. LegendLength (talk) 06:25, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
Well, if this isn't the fallacy of argumentum ad populum / appeal to common belief, nothing is.

I agree. I've seen national news stories about their rallies in Portland, but this article sheds almost no light on their actual views. I get that they clash with Antifa (who are also often labeled extreme) and a lot of observers call them "far-right", but not much here to clarify what they actually stand for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.80.236.53 (talk) 21:49, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

We report what reliable sources say. Reliable sources say that Patriot Prayer is "far-right", so we report that. We don't analyze their ideology and make an independent assessment of where it falls on the political spectrum. That is WP:Original research and is specifically prohibited. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:35, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
If "reliable sources" accuse them of being far right without evidence, it would seem they aren't very reliable History Man1812 (talk) 15:17, 12 April 2021 (UTC)History_Man1812
How does Misplaced Pages deal with bias in said reliable sources? There seems to be no evidence except what journalists allege. Certainly it's possible this is the case here, right? With these standards, it seems impossible to prove a negative if one reliable source mistakenly says it's "far-right" while others characterize it as "right-wing," "conservative," or "libertarian" without using the term "far right." Part of the reason I use Misplaced Pages for a source of information is that it tends to remove biases more than journalists do. 47.156.163.253 (talk) 04:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree with this criticism. The page uses the term “far right“ repeatedly, but never cites facts. It just quotes other people calling this group far right. Surely there must be some evidence from the group’s own statements or actions, if this is a fair characterization.Sajita (talk) 12:38, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

There is still no support offered for their views being right-wing, far right (how exactly is that defined anyway?) or what ever. All the article contains is a lot of 'opinions', 'circumstantial stuff' and innuendo. There should be some more thorough information available or one should simply leave out the adjectives. 105.0.2.155 (talk) 20:46, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Additional coverage that may be useful

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cedar777 (talk • contribs) 00:03, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Killings of Aaron Danielson and Michael Reinoehl

Killings of Aaron Danielson and Michael Reinoehl 2003:F3:23C6:1277:4C02:8F57:AD09:6662 (talk) 23:01, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2020

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This article repeatedly refers to counter-protestors of Patriot Prayer as "antifa" with zero reference to where those protestors truly are self-described "anti-fascist protestors". Therefore the article shows heavy bias. Unless this can be backed up, each instance of "anti-fascist" and "antifa" should be removed entirely. They don't need to be replaced. "counter protestors" should be sufficient without being misleading. Samsepi0I (talk) 01:14, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 01:19, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Related: John Turano

Created the new stub John Turano. Improvements welcome. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:24, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2021

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Re the first paragraph's sentence "The group has organized rallies in support of Donald Trump" is ambiguous. Perhaps it should be "in support of the Trump 2020 presidential campaign" or "in support of then President Donald Trump" or something else that explains why a group would support an individual, rather than a cause or a campaign. It might have made perfect sense when the sentence was first written, but it doesn't make sense now from a fresh perspective. Someone with more familiarity with the subject matter than me should be able to correctly clarify the sentence. 67.131.54.112 (talk) 05:09, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Added "former President". ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 07:04, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Additional sources

Nightmare Elk

Not sure if the group's involvement in the (removal of the) Nightmare Elk is worth mentioning? More sources on the article's talk page. ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:13, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Applying qualifiers without source.

I think it's pretty clear calling groups like Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys terms like "white nationalists" is blatantly not true on its own (Proud Boys isn't even run by anyone who is white right now). And considering there are no articles being sourced that support the statement that Proud Boys is a white nationalist or far-right group, there is no reason for this to be included in the opening paragraph. As of this writing I've had Jorm revert my edit multiple times and is claiming I'm the one doing disruptive edits for removing unsubstantiated claims. Until there is any source (I'm well aware that Misplaced Pages is about sourcing and not "truth," whether the qualifiers are true or not), there is no reason to include blatantly inflammatory descriptions of these groups. I'll revert my edit back and request a source either be provided or explain why these terms should be included. I'm hoping we can be more civil with this and not continue to cause issues in cleaning up the article. Sarstan (talk) 23:01, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

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