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This template was considered for deletion on 2019 April 18. The result of the discussion was "Move patent citations out of {{Citation}} and into {{Cite patent}}, deprecate the dedicated code in {{Citation}} for patents".

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Citation template.

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conference param

I suggest making |conference= an alias of |title= and automatically detecting conference type in that case. Needed especially in cases like this for easy conversion from {{cite conference}}. Invasive Spices (talk) 3 December 2021 (UTC)

I don't think so. {{citation}} is not going to automatically support all variations of the 26 cs1 templates. If you want to cite a conference and have the citation rendered in cs2 format, use |mode=cs2. But, ...

This template is a mess:

{{citation | first1=Azaiez Ouled | last1=Belgacem | author2={{small|1=(] )}} | first3=Safaa Mohammed | last3=Al-Farsi | first4=Hayel Al | last4=Wawi | first5=Hadi Abdullah Shaif | last5=Al-Yafei | first6=M. | last6=Al-Sharari | first7=Ahmed Mohamed | last7=Al-Hamoudi | first8=Mounir | last8=Louhaichi | author9={{small|1=(] )}} | title=Spineless cactus in the Arabian Peninsula: adaptive behaviors and production performances | publisher=] | hdl=20.500.11766/9182 | title=IX INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS ON CACTUS PEAR AND COCHINEAL - "CAM crops for a hotter and drier world" | location=], Chile | date=March 26–30, 2017 | s2cid=199636444}}

An ORCID identifier is not an author so does not belong in the |authorn= parameters.

No cs1|2 template can have two |title= parameters because the template cannot see both (MediaWiki supplies only the last of the two) and if it could, which should it display? That is not a decision that a template should be making.

The use of templates inside cs1|2 template should be avoided: the {{small}} template doc specifically notes this.

According to this website, the paper: "Spineless cactus in the Arabian Peninsula: adaptive behaviors and production performances" was presented on 28 March 2017. According to this website, the paper was not included in the conference proceedings. {{cite conference}} is best suited to citing conference proceedings. If the paper is published elsewhere (abstract p. 77 – I didn't find a copy of the full paper online) then perhaps a different cs1|2 template should be used. This abstract appears to be the same as the content provided at hdl:20.500.11766/9182 which does not appear to link to the full paper.

There is nothing of interest at Semantic Scholar so retaining the s2cid identifier seems rather pointless because a reader will gain nothing from it.

The default automatic citation for {{citation}} is a book-style citation. For books, |location= is the location of the publisher, not the location of this conference.

If the abstract is sufficient to support a claim in Cactus, them consider rewriting the template:

{{citation |first1=Azaiez Ouled |last1=Belgacem |first2=Safaa Mohammed |last2=Al-Farsi |first3=Hayel Al |last3=Wawi |first4=Hadi Abdullah Shaif |last4=Al-Yafei |first5=M. |last5=Al-Sharari |first6=Ahmed Mohamed |last6=Al-Hamoudi |first7=Mounir |last7=Louhaichi |title=Spineless cactus in the Arabian Peninsula: adaptive behaviors and production performances |work=] |hdl=20.500.11766/9182 |hdl-access=free |date=March 26–30, 2017 |type=Abstract}}

Belgacem, Azaiez Ouled; Al-Farsi, Safaa Mohammed; Wawi, Hayel Al; Al-Yafei, Hadi Abdullah Shaif; Al-Sharari, M.; Al-Hamoudi, Ahmed Mohamed; Louhaichi, Mounir (March 26–30, 2017), "Spineless cactus in the Arabian Peninsula: adaptive behaviors and production performances", CGIAR (Abstract), hdl:20.500.11766/9182

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:28, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

revised-date?

Is this the best way to document a living document with a date of original publication and a date for the latest update (ignoring the update)? Does orig-date apply here (and if so, can we make that explicit in the documentation, please?)? Thanks for any advice! HLHJ (talk) 17:20, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Cite the date of the version that supports the in-text claim. You can add |archive-url= and |archive-date= if you want to link to a specific version of a page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:00, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

I came to this Talk page to discuss just this, and a solution I have found for a source which states that it was published on a certain date, and updated on a different date. Linking to an archived version is not appropriate in this case. Most date parameters require a rigidly specified date format—"|date=March 1, 2008, updated March 1, 2012" is not allowed—but orig-date is free-format; it displays its contents in square brackets after the date, and documentation encourages that an explanation be included: |date=1 December 2022|orig-date=originally published 31 November 2022, rendering as "1 December 2022 ". When the original publication date is more important, e.g. to establish precedence, I use the parameter backwards: |date=30 November 2022|orig-date=updated 1 December 2022. Maybe the parameter orig-date should have an alternative, optional, name, possibly alt-date or update-date, or both?

I used this in partygate.

@HLHJ: This may be the solution you seek.

@Jonesey95: Maybe also of interest.

1. Crerar, Pippa (30 November 2021) . "Boris Johnson 'broke Covid lockdown rules' with Downing Street parties at Xmas". Daily Mirror.

Best wishes, Pol098(talk) 14:22, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Pol098, Jonesey95! That's just what I needed to know, and I've updated it. HLHJ (talk) 01:42, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Feature request

It would be useful to have (an) alias(es) for orig-date, to give update dates, translation dates, dates spanning multiple days or years, and other dates that do not fit the standard format. See above. HLHJ (talk) 16:30, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Wrapper Template:FEIS provokes error message

Every single use of {{FEIS}}, a citation wrapper template, now raises an error: {{citation}}: External link in |via= . What should we do about this? Just remove the link? Replace it with a URL-like string such as feis-crs.org/feis?

Example output:

"Pinus lambertiana". Fire Effects Information System (FEIS). US Department of Agriculture (USDA), Forest Service (USFS), Rocky Mountain Research Station, Fire Sciences Laboratory – via https://www.feis-crs.org/feis/. {{citation}}: External link in |via= (help) – Anon423 (talk) 03:24, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

It is not necessary to subst the template here; a simple transclusion is sufficient.

{{FEIS}} is misusing |via=. When a source is distributed by an entity that is not the publisher, |via= takes the name of the distributor. In this case, the publisher is US Forest Service which is also the distributor so the |via= claim is redundant. And, URLs are only allowed in URL-holding parameters (those with url as part of the parameter name; |url=, |archive-url=, etc). The fix, it seems to me, is to remove |via= from {{FEIS}}; but, discussion about that should take place at that template's talk page.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:06, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. The link to the FEIS home page is available from the top of the URL that is used in the citation, so it is not needed in the citation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:46, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

I brought up the subject at Template talk:FEIS. Since the two of you already agree, If nobody objects, here or there, I'll implement the suggested change in a day or two. – Anon423 (talk) 18:49, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

I substituted the template intending to provide a record that persists after the template is changed. Is that not a good idea? – Anon423 (talk) 18:41, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

|archive-date= feature request

{{Webarchive}} extracts the date from the URL if no date is supplied. Can the citation templates learn this trick too? ~Kvng (talk) 00:14, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Second that. It is a considerable waste of time to go back and extract the date, while the information is already present in archive-url field. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Spurious error message?

The citation <ref>{{Cite web |title=/e/OS - deGoogled unGoogled smartphone operating systems and online services |author= |website=e Foundation |date= |access-date=22 February 2022 |url=https://e.foundation/e-os}}</ref> is correct (when clicked on it goes to a valid page), but displays {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help) in the {{reflist}} when invoked in Fairphone.

1. "/e/OS - deGoogled unGoogled smartphone operating systems and online services". e Foundation. Retrieved 22 February 2022.

Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 19:35, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

url-status=deviated??

At the moment the documentation says "When the original URL is 'live' but no longer supports the article text, set |url-status=deviated." The documentation does not say what effect this is supposed to have, and I couldn't find any information elsewhere. In practice it seems to work exactly the same as "dead": it shows the archived link first, then "archived at". Personally I think it should act the same as "usurped" or "unfit", but my opinion doesn't matter. What it does need is documenting. At present it seems that there are 3 behaviours (and they seem to cover all possibilities): dead (default), with synonym deviated; live; and usurped, synonym unfit. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 15:43, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Restore display command

Seems someone nixed or forgot to include |display-translators= along with the commands for authors and editors. Sure it's less important, but it still needs to be available when needed. — LlywelynII 22:09, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

|display-translators= is a valid, supported, and properly functioning parameter:

{{cite book |title=Title |translator=Black, AB |translator2=Brown, CD |display-translators=1}}

Title. Translated by Black, AB; et al.

{{cite book |title=Title |translator=Black, AB |display-translators=etal}}

Title. Translated by Black, AB; et al.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:20, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

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