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Revision as of 23:32, 14 March 2005 editRhobite (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users20,728 edits Listening tests: response← Previous edit Revision as of 18:03, 23 March 2005 edit undo195.64.95.116 (talk) foolNext edit →
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:Yes, your hearing probably is better than mine. Is that some kind of insult? I'm not an irrational tube amp-worshipping audiophile, I just want to keep your obvious bias out of encyclopedia articles. ] 02:42, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC) :Yes, your hearing probably is better than mine. Is that some kind of insult? I'm not an irrational tube amp-worshipping audiophile, I just want to keep your obvious bias out of encyclopedia articles. ] 02:42, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
::My obvious bias? Are you THAT def, that you can't hear the crap MPC put in that given example? Really, if you still dare write that it sounds "better than " with that sample, you are insane. Nobody needs a test for that. You simply LISTEN and you'll hear that the MPC file contains loads of strange EXTRA sounds that aren't in the original! Geez, you people suck. You write all sorts of bullshit, preferably long-winding nonsense about the validity of "blind listening tests" while NEVER having heard the sample once. In case you forgot: It is ABOUT SOUND, in order to make judgements on that, you'll USE YOUR EARS.


==Listening tests== ==Listening tests==

Revision as of 18:03, 23 March 2005

If MPC is an improvement on MP3 remains to be seen. Check these samples: http://jult.net/dub/entry.php?id=205

It's very clear that it's not much better, in fact, MPC today is still not really improving on LAME MP3 in my testing. It does really bad things with the audio, actually. So please, don't believe the hype, and don't just put lies on pages in wikipedia..

Is that your site? That's cute, you think ABX testing is worthless. Rhobite 19:52, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)

My hearing is better than yours, obviously. Throwing in a defense-shield by using words like "abc" "hr" or "abx" means you are incapable of using your ears when dealing with sound.

Yes, your hearing probably is better than mine. Is that some kind of insult? I'm not an irrational tube amp-worshipping audiophile, I just want to keep your obvious bias out of encyclopedia articles. Rhobite 02:42, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
My obvious bias? Are you THAT def, that you can't hear the crap MPC put in that given example? Really, if you still dare write that it sounds "better than " with that sample, you are insane. Nobody needs a test for that. You simply LISTEN and you'll hear that the MPC file contains loads of strange EXTRA sounds that aren't in the original! Geez, you people suck. You write all sorts of bullshit, preferably long-winding nonsense about the validity of "blind listening tests" while NEVER having heard the sample once. In case you forgot: It is ABOUT SOUND, in order to make judgements on that, you'll USE YOUR EARS.

Listening tests

Let's talk about a word: "conclude". It's a big word. Statistical tests don't give us proof of anything, but they can suggest that conclusions are likely. In this case, we don't have enough data to make much of a valid conclusion. You can't sample 20 self-selected people in various listening environments and prove that one codec is better than another. These listening tests do suggest that MPC is one of the better codecs at 128 kbit/s. A 128 kbit/s test doesn't allow us to conclude anything about higher bitrates, or more recent versions of the codecs. While the ff123 results should be included, we need to note that 2001-2002 was a long time ago. Vorbis, AAC, and even MP3 have improved in quality since then. RJamorim's tests are more recent, but they still involve self-selected participants and small sample sizes. Due to the lack of random sampling we can't make any conclusions about what these data say about the general population of listeners. Rhobite 17:06, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

You started using the word "propaganda." I edited this page and you changed it again. You can stop trolling now. The following remark and the next one remain, as well as the page's structure: Linking to Slashdot, which is a mere news site and has nothing to do with audio formats, is propaganda. Those are objective tests done by means of ABX and ABC/HR (which you can do a search for and learn about) and the Musepack.net site is the *official* Musepack site. The link you presented is one amongst several other important tests. Omitting the others twists the facts. I will include all the links on this page instead, even though I tried to avoid this bloat by linking to the site. If you're annoyed by the fact that Musepack suffers from less problem cases than Vorbis, that's tough. I can assure you that Monty knows well about the limitations of Vorbis (and all its current forks) with transients. You can ask him on IRC or by email yourself. Vorbis 1 was released early in order to have a final version out as soon as possible. Vorbis 2 will include rewritten transient handling code. comment by User:80.74.124.55.

Actually, you were the first one to use the word "propaganda". You said that linking to Slashdot was propaganda, and claimed that since the listening tests used "ABC/HR" they are irrefutable. While I agree that blind tests are much more useful than informal ones, as I've pointed out here and in the article, they were unscientific, small sample-size tests. The tests do not support conclusions such as "MPC is the best available lossy codec". The best we can do is report the conditions and actual results of the test (sample sizes, etc), which you decided to remove from the article. I DID include all the links, even the obsolete ff123 test. Please don't accuse me of trolling. I have no bias here. The audiophiles will be shocked to learn that I've never used MPC, and personally my ears are content with LAME -V5. I'm trying to report facts objectively, and certain users appear to want to whitewash certain codecs, or remove information from this article. Rhobite 23:32, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)