Revision as of 02:04, 6 December 2024 editArbeiten8 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users1,624 edits →Rowling and Barbra Banda← Previous edit | Revision as of 15:49, 12 December 2024 edit undoAdam Cuerden (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers52,524 edits →Rowling and Barbra Banda: ReplyTag: ReplyNext edit → | ||
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:We have articles like <nowiki>]</nowiki> claiming that the subject is a white supremacist in spite of Fuentes's denial. On the other hand, when Rowling is accused of transphobia, she retorts that she doesn't care and is "." | :We have articles like <nowiki>]</nowiki> claiming that the subject is a white supremacist in spite of Fuentes's denial. On the other hand, when Rowling is accused of transphobia, she retorts that she doesn't care and is "." | ||
:I think people can common sense. We don't need a hundreds sources to run a headline to the effect "Rowling is the great transphobic author of all time in human history" to decide that 2+2=4 ] (]) 02:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC) | :I think people can common sense. We don't need a hundreds sources to run a headline to the effect "Rowling is the great transphobic author of all time in human history" to decide that 2+2=4 ] (]) 02:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC) | ||
::I think the goalposts keep moving. We have reliable sources directly talking about it now. But they'll probably insist on peer-reviewed papers, and if those are presented, will say they're not as good as ones from 10 years ago, which don't mention her transphobia. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">''']''' <sup>(])</sup><sub>Has about 8.8% of all ].</sub></span> 15:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC) |
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CITEVAR
Hi, Alarics; thanks for the ref cleanup and the tidying, but the established citation style on this WP:FA is to wikilink publishers. Could you help me understand why you are unlinking only a couple publishers, and adding unnecessary locations on only a few (after I partially corrected that once already?) Featured articles must have consistent citations, and this one has a well-defined style. Thanks, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:21, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- The convention I follow is that the location (i.e. the city of publication) should be given for every newspaper unless it is part of the paper's name. This is necessary because there are, for instance, several newspapers around the world called The Guardian. So I don't agree that these locations are "unnecessary". In the case of mainstream newspapers at least, this is a more useful form of disambiguation than giving the name of the publisher, since publishers of newspapers nowadays tend to change because of company mergers, etc., whereas they very rarely change location. The Daily Mirror, for example, is now on at least its fifth owner, but it has been published in London consistently for 121 years. This distinguishes it from the Daily Mirror in Sri Lanka. Also, Template:Cite news says "Do not use the publisher parameter for the name of a work (e.g. a website, book, encyclopedia, newspaper, magazine, journal, etc.)".
- I wasn't aware of the "featured article" rule you mention, sorry. I absolutely agree with you about the desirability of consistency within any one article but on this occasion I realised I wasn't going to have time to do everything that needed doing. -- Alarics (talk) 21:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for explaining; I understand the logic behind your personal convention, but that's not the CITEVAR used on this article, or agreed upon in many featured articles. If others agree that locations should be more broadly added, we could consider changing the established style, but most of the newspapers used here are well known. I think we're using the work/publisher parameters correctly throughout, but if you see a place where that is not the case, pls advise. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:40, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Rowling and Barbra Banda
Times and again, Rowling has exhibited transphobia like her recent claim that Barbra Banda doesn't look feminine enough. J.K. Rowling harasses African soccer player for not being womanly enough
This is my reason for adding Category:Anti-transgender activists here. Arbeiten8 (talk) 10:08, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Putting aside the misrepresentation of Rowling's issue here, and the fact that her comments on Banda are not even related to trans issues, the article does not classify Rowling as an 'anti-transgender activist', meaning it is not appropriate to put the article in such a category.Daff22 (talk) 15:20, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- "Transphobic billionaire author J.K. Rowling is attacking yet another cisgender African female athlete" Arbeiten8 (talk) 21:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Per Daff22. Arbeiten8, please have a look at a broader sampling of unbiased sources, along with the scores of times the same discussion has been had on this talk page, and in particular, the high quality sources required for a Featured article. And I believe we have the same situation with this. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:32, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Rowling is the textbook definition of what is transphobia. She has
- #Misgendered trans people
- #Misgendered cis people who she perceived as the wrong gender like India Willoughby
- #Authored the book Troubled Blood & The Silkworm claiming that trans women are supervillains wanting to rape women casting "trans women as a threat" according to GLAAD
- The only reason the first sentence of this article doesn't describe her as a transphobia activist is by the dint of fanatics with an agenda to profit off her like Warner Bros. Discovery, Inc. (WBD) Arbeiten8 (talk) 15:52, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
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- I mean, even Variety is saying it now.... Adam Cuerden Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 17:19, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- This debate has been had a number of times now, and it has become abundantly clear that there is no consensus for adding that label. TBicks (talk) 00:30, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
I know we've had this discussion multiple times before and the consensus prior is that, despite Rowling's actions over the past few years, it doesn't relate much to her overall career and ongoing notability. As of yet. And the latter sentence was noted in those discussions as well. I do wonder, though, at where that line is and how long is needed of her continuing this ongoing bigotry that had been all she's gotten reporting on for years now before we can actually change or add to the article about this being a new main part of her ongoing notability. There is a time amount and line where that would be true, right? Silverseren 00:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Probably? Assuming reliable sources start commonly calling/alluding to her being an anti-transgender activist, I don't see why not.
- The problem in past discussions seems to have boiled down not to whether she is anti-transgender (I think she's made her gender critical views clear by this point), but to if she is an activist. Few of the RSs previously discussed actually describe her that way, and there's no consensus thusfar as to if simple speech on Twitter constitutes activism (especially given the absence of campaigning elsewhere).
- Anyhow, it's only been a couple of months since the last time this was discussed, and in the absence of new developments, we can't keep reigniting this every time someone wants to link some poor quality sources (LGBTQ Nation is hardly unbiased on this issue). TBicks (talk) 01:17, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- "In the past, JK Rowling stated that she would prefer ‘two years’ in jail over using a trans person’s correct pronouns. "
- 2 books claiming trying to create a stereotype of trans women as male murderers and rapists; J.K. Rowling's New Book Features Character Murdered Over Transphobic Views (Rolling Stone)
- Rowling also indicated that Trump's 2024 electoral win is because of the triumph of transphobia (Kamala is for they/them): According to her, the only reason that she couldn't positively declare ""Trump's win was down to the gender stuff" is because she isn't an American voter
- Also, would I be wrong in stating that if Rowling were a WP user engaging in this unrepentant rhetoric, then she' be banned?
- We have articles like ] claiming that the subject is a white supremacist in spite of Fuentes's denial. On the other hand, when Rowling is accused of transphobia, she retorts that she doesn't care and is "indifferent to your disapproval."
- I think people can common sense. We don't need a hundreds sources to run a headline to the effect "Rowling is the great transphobic author of all time in human history" to decide that 2+2=4 Arbeiten8 (talk) 02:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think the goalposts keep moving. We have reliable sources directly talking about it now. But they'll probably insist on peer-reviewed papers, and if those are presented, will say they're not as good as ones from 10 years ago, which don't mention her transphobia. Adam Cuerden Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 15:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
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