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Next Pokémon Creature Article

Did an update of all the noted articles, so people can fix what's wrong without having to ask what's wrong. If you complete something, just strike it out. Highway 17:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

• Houndour - wrecked!Vikrant Phadkay 10:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

• Blaziken - Rewrite characteristics, cover May's Torchic-->Combusken-->Blaziken (all the info can be found in the prior articles). Copy video games prose from Combusken. Referencing all round, Highway 17:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
  • This would actually complete an evolutionary family, our second that we could complete (the third is the Mudkip family with Swampert; the first is Bulbasaur's with the upgrade of Venusaur.) myTrackerTV (myTalk|myWork|myInbox) 23:39, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

• Venonat - implement {{Pokestart}}, expand on Koga's (or his assisstant's) Venonant, and expand greatly on Tracey's. Again, check the manga for Venonat, and rewrite the TCG section. Remove original research from Biology, and add better descriptions of Venonat locations. Highway 17:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

• Treecko - Write content on Ash's Treecko-->Grovyle-->Sceptile, and Wally's Treecko-->Grovyle. Highway 17:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

• Rapidash - Rewrite name def, cleanup citing there D: Cleanup whole of intro, per Ivysaur. Rewrite and properly cite Pokédex section, per Torchic. Cleanup video games per Cloyster, mention Pokémon Snap, and borrow the book cite from Bulbasaur. If you feel like digging, you can note that Rapidash is the only other Fire family in the Shin'ou dex, there's a Bulbanews article detailing this for "fan clarification". Implement, {{Pokeanime}}, and format the wash of text, per Ivysaur. Check Serebii for the manga, someone must have a Rapidash, look at Eevee, it's got the cite about the Electric Pikachu Boogaloo manga volume with the novelised version of the race. Format the TCG like Ivysaur, and prose it. *dies* Highway 09:29, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

• Anorith Yuk! —Celestianpower 23:34, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

• Banette - The "Characteristics" section is well done; the rest is a wreck, especially the jargon-loaded "In the Video Games" section. ~e.o.t.d~ 10:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
• Lucario — Expand on "In the video games", maybe add some more about Lucario's strengths (like its Aura Sphere). Some additional sources wouldn't hurt, either.

Next Miscellaneous Article

Cleaned out to gut old discussions. Archived FFAs. Shin'ou's TTV (Futaba|Masago|Kotobuki) 03:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

• Pokémon Red and Blue. It's one of the best-selling games ever, and WP:CVG has excellent style guidelines (And plenty of willing help) to help us get a featured article about something that exists in the real world. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 09:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree. This, along with Ruby and Sapphire, should go straight to our next MA, but our current focus, our flagship, should be made an honorary focus so that this could cycle again. TTV (MyTV|PolygonZ|Green Valley) 21:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I don't think this project can turn Pokémon into a proper FA or even a GA unless someone commits to doing the hard work of proper research. With Pokémon Red and Blue, that research still needs to be done; it's just less onerous. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 06:32, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Pokémon (video games) More detailed comments are at the bottom of this page, but to sum it up, for an page that's supposed to be the main article for the video games, it needs a lot of work. 蜻蛉の目_e.o.t.d 10:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

• Pokémon evolution We should add levels of Evolution to ever pokemon under the picture for convenience and so that the information isn't scattered throughout the article. Also, in many cases it doesn't even say what level it evolves at! Surskit being the first to come to mind.
  • I believe the reason why the level at which Pokémon isn't written into articles is that it feels too much like a game guide, and this is not allowed (#4)—it's too technical. --Brandon Dilbeck 03:15, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

preciate]]|Laugh At) 21:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Focus for next month

I'd sugest Lugia to focus. That's because I'm focusing this in the Lusophone Misplaced Pages and I found that Lugia in the Anglophone Misplaced Pages is lacking much content. Then I think Lugia should be the Species Focus for July. ManecoWifi 01:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Why not Huntail? It doesn't have much. TheBlazikenMaster 01:30, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, we should remember that the merging-by-evolutionary-line option is always open, and that the only reason nothing's happening with it right now is because we've all been taking a big break from it. With the merger in mind, I would support making Lugia a focus to see if it can truly hold its own article so that merging it with Ho-oh is not necessary. But a merged page on the minor Pokemon Clamperl, Huntail, and Gorebyss seems like it'll exist that way regardless of a separate article focus, because those three have much less to say about them than Lugia. Erik Jensen 01:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

biological characteristics

It is a giant psychic bird, created with awesome power. It can talk to people in English using it's psychic power. The flaps on its back could resemble aerodynamics.

Yup, needs to be the next focus. --The Raven's Apprentice 06:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

lol, ur humor has brightened my day -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 15:30, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Hey guys

You got an related AfD here: Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Zangoose_and_Seviper, someone merged the two characters without consensus. Should they stay like that, or be split back up? Kwsn 22:27, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I have added a link to the discussion in the project's noticeboard. --Brandon Dilbeck 01:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

The merged article has been speedily deleted. I am removing it from the noticeboard. --Brandon Dilbeck 01:27, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, sorry to bust your bubble guys

But Bulbasaur was demoted, it's no longer an FA, might want to update that on the front page. Kwsn 06:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Aw, shucks! Well, ain't that a stinker? Now none of the articles covered by this project are FAs. I've updated the main page. --Brandon Dilbeck 06:28, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Phenomenal popularity of List of Pokémon

Since its merger, "List of Pokémon" has been unbelievably popular for the whole of 2007 with the viewing audience. In the rank tables, this list came: 4th in June, 4th in May, 4th in April, 8th in March and 14th in February. Consistently being the fourth most popular in an encyclopedia of 6,941,179 articles is an impressive feat. May I suggest that in the interest of public opinion, attentions be focused strongly on this page, in particular improving it to Featured List status? - 82.16.7.63 03:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I would like to direct discussion on this matter to the article's talk page. --Brandon Dilbeck 03:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

A Pokémon-related discussion at AfD

The article Stunky is being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Stunky. Your comments would be welcome. --Eastmain 07:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for letting us know. I've added a link to the discussion to the noticeboard. --Brandon Dilbeck 07:58, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and I'd like people to read my nomination and base their decision on my nomination. I don't believe Eastmain did this; he leaned on previous consensus and ignored my arguments. --Teggles 08:00, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for bulleting your reply, by the way. --Teggles 08:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I am creating the article that Stunky would have been merged into eventually even if this AFD never existed. I have a draft in my userspace. FunPika 18:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Nice, FunPika. I wasn't aware the AFD page existed, yet there's a lot of debate there already. Looking at the AFD page, I must say, trying to find some way to cover the Pokemon species in a way that satisfies both all types of people and all manner of Wikipolicy is looking near-futile, with many opposing 493 separate pages and many others opposing merged articles... It's no wonder AMIB never commented recently. Erik Jensen 19:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

More GFDL compliance issues

I just ran across Nincada evolutionary line and noticed that author information (or at the very least, where the article text came from) is completely missing. I imagine this is the case for a number of other articles. Please try to get this fixed up. The GFDL is non-negotiable and this article could be speedy deleted at any time. --- RockMFR 18:13, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Poke-cleanup

Template:Poke-cleanup has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Kwsn 00:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Pokefair

Template:Pokefair has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — FunPika 00:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Me again

Sorry to say guys, but unless {{Poke-stub}} and {{Poke-expand}} are A. reworded so it doesn't violate WP:OWN and B. have the image replaced with a generic pokeball, I may be nominating them for deletion. Thanks in advance. Kwsn 04:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that you don't want these templates to indicate any relationship with this WikiProject. I think your first concern could easily be handled by removing the "Pokémon Collaborative Project" part at the end, but as for the second concern, replacing the Wikiball image with a generic Poké Ball image (like this) would be a copyright violation. Since the article is about Pokémon, I don't see a huge problem with there being a picture of the Wikiball, which is easily associable with Pokémon. The article Narrow-body aircraft has an airplane image in its stub template, but I don't automatically associate it with WikiProject Aircraft. --Brandon Dilbeck 07:08, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

As Brandon said, the main pokeball would be a copyvio. Also, you do realize that the entire stub type would be wiped out of existence over a wording issue if you nominated it right? FunPika 11:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll give you the pokeball, and I'll retract my intent to nominate it for deletion, but it honestly needs to be reworded to fit into WP:OWN. Kwsn 14:51, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

 Done References to this project removed. FunPika 15:05, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Kwsn 15:47, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Related WikiProjects?

I first want to point out what a nice job Nall (t c) did organizing this project's page. While I was doing some refinements of his edits by restructuring the page's hierarchy, I starting thinking about the Related WikiProjects section. I am wondering exactly what makes some of the projects in that list related to this one (such as WikiProject The Elder Scrolls). I'm also wondering what use including the inactive projects serves anyone. Should we consider trimming down this list, if not removing it entirely? --Brandon Dilbeck 07:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Still yet another comment

More a nudge for you guys here, but you should take a vote when to begin a drive to merge the evolutionary lines together. I'm saying this as more of a warning of sorts because I'm not going to be making more AfD for the pages (I've caused you guys enough problems as is the last few days), but it may help a bit to get it done faster so no more pop up.

Also, a suggestion: If you want to condense the articles down even more to an even less amount of pages (which I doubt, but hear me out anyway), why not sort them by primary type (meaning if it has two types, sort by the first one) of the basic pokemon of that line. Just a thought. Kwsn 20:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

OH! before I forget, a few pages that would be exempt from my suggestion: Eevee's line (since it's so "big") and the Pikachu line (of all the individual pokemon deserving it's own page, that would be the one). Kwsn 20:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

First of all, since Misplaced Pages is a work in progress, I don't see any reason to rush into merging any articles together. There is no deadline for Misplaced Pages, so rushing the matter won't help at all. As for merging by type, it doesn't seem to be the case for dual-type Pokémon that one type is primary and the other secondary, so it probably wouldn't be appropriate to assume that the first one is more important. If we look at Pidgeotto for example, it is a Normal/Flying type. I would assume, though, that the Flying part is more important, seeing that it's a bird. There are no Flying-only-type Pokémon. --Brandon Dilbeck 02:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Types have been discussed, but were ultimately deemed unworkable and possible original resaerch. Crobat is Poison/Flying, but its Flying type is clearly more prominent. I disagree with Brandon; I think we really need to start merging now, as we've seemingly suddenly come under attack - with the second AFD nomination of the 1-20 and 21-40 lists, the evolutionarly lines AFD, and various AFDs of Whismur, Camerupt, and now Stunky. I sense a tide is turning, and we need to flee before the tsnumai hits. hbdragon88 02:14, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

About Crobat, I personally feel its Poison type is more important. Clearly, it won't work to divide anything by type, as people will disagree and move things and everything. --Brandon Dilbeck 02:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I think a way to solve this problem is to do it based on the way the Pokédex does the typing. So Crobat would be under the Poison-type wing, Magneton is for Electric, and Pidgeot...is Normal. ROFL, people are going to hate that. hbdragon88 03:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Well do it by the obvious major type then, and if it's in the air, the first type then. Kwsn 05:13, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

As has been discussed before, grouping by type would crate gigantic lists for Normal and tiny ones for, um, steel or dragon. Number is the best alternative. --The Raven's Apprentice 08:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, 20-Pokemon per list is fine for merging, no need for elements. Evolutionary lines are a very bad idea, two non-notable articles do not make a notable article. I've actually started the 20-Pokemon type of merging: check out List of Pokémon (421-440), I've merged 5 articles without removing any info (except for game guide and OR). This is actually very easy for many Pokemon, because most have very little information. --Teggles 08:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

So we're gonna cover the species in 25 descriptive list pages covering 20 Pokemon each, with Main Article links to the more important species - the very proposal I first made on here many months ago? If the plan is going to stay consistently at that course, then I love it and will be willing to help out. The main reason I was willing to check out the alternative merge-by-evo-line proposal of other users was because it was much too hard for me to try and create the first pages in this series (List of Pokémon (1-20) and List of Pokémon (21-40)) all by myself, for those pages were much harder than it would have been making the (421-440) page, mainly because earlier Pokémon in general seem to have much more to say about them that can be properly sourced. (And I once considered arranging by elements too, but there really is too much about that concept that can be open to interpretation and thus cause warring over.) Anyway, let's hope there won't be too much user conflict in this transition. Erik Jensen 17:27, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Teggles has thrown his/her weight behind that plan, and Jay also indicated that evolutionary lines was an unsatisfactory solution, so I think the tide has once again brought back to the striaght-up lists. We'll lose the togetherness of the evolutionary line – though to be quite honest it was only Porygon tha was the star of the eplipsey episode, with 2 and Z out of it. hbdragon88 21:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Erm, I'm not sure what you guys want to do with the TCG images, but I'm going to have quite a bit of orphaned image bot messages soon... So look there for the first 125ish Pokémon trading cards. Alvin6226 15:50, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure why we need to use the TCG images. --Teggles 23:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Sourcing question

Merged or no, is it necessary to have an inline cite for Pokédex info? -Jeske 08:11, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there should be inline cites, and each cite for each claim should have a QUOTE. e.g. "X is relatively tall" would have an inline citation of "X's size is large in the Pokemon species. Nintendo, Pokemon Diamond (2007)". You get the idea. --Teggles 08:43, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Teggles... we had this discussion at Bulbasaur's review page... it not preferable to have every claim reffed. From WP:REF, the only info that needs citations is "material that is challenged or likely to be challenged." As for Pokedex info, in the past we've had the habit of attributing our source through prose (e.g. "According to the Pokedex, a fictional encyclopedia on Pokemon, ..."), but there is definitely something to be said for the neatness and professionalism of providing an inline citation that says the same thing, especially since more often than not we are providing direct quotes. After writing a sample Eevee evo line article, I can say it's difficult to find different ways to rephrase "According to the pokedex" when you need to do it seven or eight times. My opinion is to start citing these inline, with specific refs to the relevant version of the game:

Abra sleep 18 hours a day, and can use the move Teleport to escape from danger even while sleeping.

But both options seem viable to me and neither violate any policies or guidelines. Anyone else care to comment? -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 17:07, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

then again, prose citing the info helps us keep in line with WP:WAF... mebbe both? -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 17:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone read Japanese?

I suppose a lot of people here can, so in any case, what does this archive of Mayumi's blog say? The article on Misty had it saying that Misty's gonna make an appearance in D/P, until an anon came by and edited it to say the blog only hints that. And a random girl on YouTube keeps telling me the blog now says she's gonna return as a main character and "admit her feelings" to Ash, can someone scan the whole blog and tell me if it does? Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice 08:13, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, I'm already getting some flack for List of Pokémon (421-440)

• "I think we should make seperate articles for the pokemon cuz da udaz do, and it's stupid to put em togetha and sum don't even hav any info unda dem"
• "Surely it was better with individual and comprehensive articles instead of this horrific abortion."
• "I have to agree with the others. The individual articles were much better because they contained much more information than they do now."

The last two are wrong... the individual articles had more information, but only because of the technique info (game guide, not allowed according to WP:NOT) and etymology (original research, not allowed). If you removed these things, the individual and merged versions would be the same size. Not to mention I also have WP:N, WP:FICT and WP:WAF to back me up. Yet I feel I'm wasting my time, they're eventually going to be changed back - even though there is NO reason for them to have individual articles, and EVERY reason for them to be merged. Does anyone here actually agree with what I'm doing? --Teggles 09:12, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Duh we do, ignore the noncompliant crowd as noobs who shall be ultimately suppressed. --The Raven's Apprentice 11:08, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

The person who made the second comment may be using an open proxy (a policy violation) if it is relevant. FunPika 12:35, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is, report them. --The Raven's Apprentice 14:32, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

It was confirmed that it wasn't a proxy. Also it was just one of them that I suspected. FunPika 14:40, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Singular they. --The Raven's Apprentice 15:06, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Elsewhere you're always hearing "Policy trumps consensus", but in this case we're trying to show consensus for doing something that can only be considered in policy's best interest; in this scenario, since most of the separate specie articles have massive violations of Misplaced Pages content policies, merging them down to easily digestible and practically informative sections with good sourcing should, by all means, be something that gets zero opposition in the ideal world. It's human nature, however, to prefer something someway regardless of everything else, with Pokemon having always been an extreme case of that, so there'll need to be more proponents of the merger speaking out here to show a consensus for following policy. Erik Jensen 17:16, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

there is a large difference between the merge plan that had gained consensus and the merges you are currently doing. shoving every article into the list format is wasting your time and ours. also, many of the merges you're doing aren't solving any problems with WP:OR and the like. this edit for example states resembles a hog-nosed skunk. who says? these descriptive comparisons are one of the things we're trying to avoid. i'm not sure everyone here was aware of what exactly you were doing - redirecting articles to the lists with stripped down paragraphs of a couple sentences. there is no agreement for that kind of merge and i don't think there ever would be. Consensus is policy, and policy trumps guidelines, so reach consensus for your actions especially when they are controversial. -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 18:47, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I left the description information because it can likely be sourced through guidebooks. I removed game guide information and etymology information, if I removed the description information, the sections would be tiny. Either way, I'm taking action, while most of us are stuck in the mud doing nothing. If you feel the whole project should waste their time grouping 2 non-notable articles into 1, do what you want, but there's no way I'm helping with that abhorrent waste of time. --Teggles 23:36, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

By the way, consensus may trump guidelines, but the policy WP:NOT states that plot-related works should contain "real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's achievements, impact or historical significance, not solely a summary of that work's plot." Don't tell me there is a possibility for real-world context, show me potential for real-world context. Otherwise I have every right to merge the articles based on policy violation. Of course, I won't do it, but if you want Pokémon coverage to be more than a joke, you'll need to start with policy violations.--Teggles 23:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

• I'd even question the notability of lists of 20 pokemon in some cases. It's all relative to how much real-world information you can find for the following reasons: WP:NOT plot summaries; WP:N states that notability requires coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources (which, in the case of fiction, contain real-world information); and WP:WAF's suggestions. Misplaced Pages requires research outside of the fictional work itself. Nevertheless, it's a step in the right direction, since it's easier to establish real-world/out-of-universe details and notability with a broader focus. — Deckiller 20:26, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Teggles -the only reason for multiple articles is the number of pokemon that exist. I am not arguing that most of the pokemon are notable by themselves, or that there even is any published material about most of them outside of the fiction. (exceptions to this include species like Porygon, Kadabra, Pikachu, and Bulbasaur). We wouldn't even be having this debate if there were only four or five pokemon. Then i would say to you, "YES! merge them all into the main article, and if that's too big, then create a List of pokemon article with them all on it." this is why WP:SS is conflicting with WP:N. WP:SS says it's perfectly okay to create a subarticle when a section in an article would be too big to give it comprehensive coverage. Knowledge of each element contributes to knowledge of the whole. And the truth is that there is plenty of encyclopedic, verifiable, attributable information on each and every species that does not violate WP:OR, WP:NOT, or WP:WAF. There is more than the four or five sentences being given at the list pages. Besides the species i mentioned earlier, each and every one can have information on what date in time they were originally introduced in the video game, anime, and trading card game (some pokemon never even had cameos in the manga, so i left that out) - there's your real-world context. In addition, they were all made into plush animals, figurines, and many have been featured on special items like lunchboxes and keychains (see Eevee). That specific point of WP:NOT is more about writing an article on Melena in Wicked and filling it only with info taken directly from the text. I have yet to see McDonald's and Burger King come out with action figures of her. And before "gameguide" gets thrown around, remember that "to guide" is the same as "to instruct" or "to show the way". It's perfectly within guidelines and policies to mention that Feebas may only be captured on six random tiles. And it's perfectly within guidelines and policies to say that it has very weak stats or only learns a few moves. It's violation when we start telling the reader ways they can improve their pokemon's stats or start suggesting they breed in Recover from Corsola. Just because it's detailed doesn't mean it's instructional.

Deckiller- ur right it's easier to establish those details and notability with a broader focus. but there are not going to be any extra real-world details on "Pokemon 1-20" than there was on Ivysaur, and we're not trying to establish notability - just that there's too much encyclopedic info to contain it all in a single list or as part of the main article-PokeZap (Zappernapper) 00:48, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright, have it your way. I'm sure I'll come back trying to change your mind, but for now I'm leaving this shithole of a project. Leave me a message when you've created a specie article with "real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's achievements, impact or historical significance". That's if I'm still on Misplaced Pages by that time. --Teggles 00:55, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Ooooh... Well that's fun, isn't it?

This pretty much proves that the best way to deal with the gigantic Pokemon specie organization situation is still just as open to discussion and ideas as ever. I do not believe Teggles' making those list pages is for waste, however; if Zapper's proposed approach to merging, involving lots of evo-line articles as the base and list pages as a supplement, is the final decision by consensus, then those list pages would've needed to be made anyway, just like they would've been if the Teggles approach was the final agreed merge plan. I wouldn't be overly rattled by disagreements on here.

I must say, Zapper definitely makes sense with his showing what kind of "guide" IS good for Misplaced Pages; that should definitely be kept in mind when deciding on how to structure the Pokemon pages. Erik Jensen 06:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

i never had a problem with the list articles themselves, just the immediate presumption that all but two sentences were gameguide, OR, or extraneous for each and every article. additionally, many of the paragraphs on List of Pokémon (421-440) have serious issues with lack of context (Cherrim - "...the hostess of "It's Love! Pokemon Transformation Convention!" wears a Cherrim mask.") and OR (Shellos - "Shellos... is based on a sea slug"). to redirect the main articles to these paragraphs was counterproductive to improving the articles - same problems, just shorter. people tend to forget that Wiki is not paper and that a "specialized encyclopedia" is part of our Five pillars. as long as info is attributable to reliable sources, non-instructional, and contributes to understanding the topic (Pokémon) as a whole, it has a place in wikipedia. -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 14:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, FICT says

Again,

This means that the plot summaries have to be cut out, which negates the evo line articles. --The Raven's Apprentice 03:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

We should at least put height and weight in these new-fangled articles

I went to look and see how much Cherrim weighs, and the new article didn't say. That's sad, because that's not original research stuff, it says in every Dex information. Toastypk 21:09, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

The only reason it's not there is because of the template used (which I didn't create). --Teggles 00:35, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Zappernapper (now User:PokeZap) originally included it in the template, but then cut it down as cruft. --The Raven's Apprentice 03:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I do believe that's something that merits discussion, however. I can imagine opponents of the merger feeling better about it if at least that much is added back... Erik Jensen 07:17, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

at first i didn't remember doing that, but i think your talking about {{pokeinfoboxsmall}} right? if so, i removed it from there because that info should be included in group articles or on a singular species article - the lists representing the most general and pertinent info. So Cherrim's height/weight would be found at Cherrim evolutionary line. -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 17:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Which I will probably drag to AfD the moment it comes into existence. I still don't get how Ralts evolutionary line is any better than the original articles. Same amount of ludicrously in-depth coverage of hopelessly minor characters. --The Raven's Apprentice 16:20, 2 July 2007 (UTC) Oh, I didn't see the discussion up north. But can someone reference all this in the first place, then? --The Raven's Apprentice 16:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

yes, that's something i've had a problem with... many of these merged articles are merely that - merges of the bad articles under a new name. I've seen no improvements made as the merges are happening, just some clipping, copying, and pasting. Raven I'd like to ask your opinion on Eevee evolutionary line and to a lesser extent Abra evolutionary line. The Eevee article i wrote myself from scratch, building on the original articles, but hopefully you'll be able to see they are heavily rewritten (with the minor exception of Leafeon and Glaceon not getting as much attention). The Abra article was reformatted and i really only reworked the Bio. Char. sections, trying out {{cite video game}} for inline citations of the pokedexes. hopefully (for at least the Eevee line article) you'll agree that adequate, but not extraneous, information is given. -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 02:34, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Aaaaaaaah, just when I have a packed week ahead of me?! OK, I'll try to get to it this Sunday afternoon or evening (per IST, +5:30 UTC). Cheers, The Raven's Apprentice 16:07, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Height and weight are completely negligible information. About the only gameplay mechanic that even uses weight is the move Low Kick, probably some others. If it isn't even that relevant to me, a Pokemon video game player, what is the relevance to the average reader? Check Serebii/Psypokes/Bulapedia for that kind of information. hbdragon88 19:19, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking "comprehensiveness", plus, unlike shiny colors, height and weight are officially verifiable info. What does WP:FICT say about this kind of verifiable, but irrelevant, stuff? --The Raven's Apprentice 05:17, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Basically, I was thinking of not indiscriminate collection of information more than WAF. Just because it can be verified doesn't mean that it should be here. hbdragon88 01:12, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Spelling and punctuation

I did my usual check for instances of apostrophe abuse on Misplaced Pages, and for the first time ever, I didn't have to correct a bunch of Pokemon articles! I found only one article; that never happens. Someone (or several someones) has been keeping up on spelling and punctuation of these articles. Thank you and please keep up the good work! :) Firsfron of Ronchester 23:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Apostrophe abuse!? Oh, you mean Pokemon > Pokémon-style apostrophe abuse that people tend to commit. Heh, sorry, for a moment there I honestly thought you meant abuse from User:Apostrophe. I guess I made that connection because about a year ago you were involved in an arbcom case with a now-banned user who in the year before that was claiming abuse (of sorts) from users like Apostrophe and A Man In Black on the Pokémon anime talk-page.

But thanks for the compliments anyway. :) Erik Jensen 07:29, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Um, i think he was talking about the kind of abu'se commited by idiot's who keep apostrophizing all word's that end with a "s". ;) --The Raven's Apprentice 07:37, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Ye's, that is' what I wa's talking about! Anyway, thank's to whoever ha's been fixing them! You s'aved me hour's of work! Firsfron of Ronchester 08:02, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Unnecessary Page?

I found a page for "List of Starter pokemon." I think this is already covered in Pokémon game mechanics. I'm kinda new, so I'm not really sure what to do about it.

Dude902 19:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I suggest a merger into Pokémon game mechanics. Joiz Shmo 21:01, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

i don't think this qualifies as a controversial move, all the content is redundant to info at Pokémon game mechanics#Start Pokémon. -PokeZap (Zappernapper) 00:08, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

New discussion for merging

I said I'd be back, and I am. I'm creating a new proposal for the Pokémon creature articles. Simply put, I want minor creature articles merged into 25 different lists, ordered by Pokédex No.: Template:Pokemon directory.

When we take a look at the current creature articles, they're generally like so:

• Intro
  • A paragraph detailing the Pokémon franchise
  • Assumed meaning of the name, definitely original research
• Biological characteristics
  • A description of what you see in the image (a bit redundant)
• In the video games
  • A long summary of attacks and when the creature gets them
  • (sometimes) The first game the creature appeared in
• In the anime
  • Long summary of the plot related to the creature

When they are merged, I say they should be cut down to one section with the following:

• What games the creature is in
• REAL WORLD INFORMATION: When/where introduced? (magazine, games, internet?) Was it used in any promotional material? (advertisements, basically anything) What merchandise was created for it? (toys, action figures) It's important that the latter two aren't for every creature - if a certain promotion/merchandising was created that employs all/most Pokémon, do not include it.
• Short summary of the plot related to the creature

This is so we can conform to basically every fiction-related policy and guideline on Misplaced Pages:

• WP:FICT: Minor characters and minor treatments of such matters as places and concepts in a work of fiction are merged with short descriptions into a "List of characters."
• WP:WAF: Misplaced Pages is an out-of-universe source, and all articles about fiction and elements of fiction should take an overall out-of-universe perspective.
• WP:N: Notability is an article inclusion criterion based on encyclopedic suitability A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject.
• WP:NOT: Misplaced Pages articles on published works (such as fictional stories) should contain real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's development, impact or historical significance, not solely a detailed summary of that work's plot.

But aside from blind rule following, this proposal will actually make the articles better. There will be clean and concise coverage with actual encyclopedic information. The creature articles look nice, but they read very badly. A merged list will get to what matters - not every single move that Stunky can do, and that some random person wore a mask of Stunky in Episode 5. The evolutionary lines are quite a ridiculous alternative, and I don't want people to waste their time with it.

Well, uh... what do you think? --Teggles 06:59, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

1. Game Freak (1999-10-01). Pokémon Yellow (Game Boy Color). Nintendo. Sleeps 18 hours a day. If it senses danger it will teleport to safety even as it sleeps.