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Menudo Sex and Drug Scandal

The section claims reports from Entertainment Tonight, CNN, etc. I cannot find any online corroboration for this. As such, I am removing it for now. A fan site isn't a reliable source and that is all there is for now. If new sourced can be found, it can be reinstated. IrishGuy 00:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The NY Times link is a valid link and corroborates that two members were arrested with drugs and subsequently released from the band. The PDFs from the fan site aren't reliable. The scan from The Globe doesn't show a date or even that it is from The Globe. IrishGuy 00:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

All information was sourced documents and is not a fan site. The articles are original sourced articles. The external link is information on the Menudo scandal. Just because this is negative does not mean history gets changed. This is fact not fiction. Any removal of the information will mean a telephone call to to Mr. Wales to block this vandalism. --Blue5864 (talk) 02:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Threats aren't a good idea. When many administrators discuss the issue (as per here this thread) and one of said administrators removed the content it isn't vandalism. IrishGuy 03:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The paragraph absolutely does not belong. Tabloids are not reliable sources. A tabloid, referenced on a personal website, is about as far from reliable as it is possible to get. Thank you, Antandrus (talk) 03:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Requested edit

Can an admin again please remove the External link at the bottom of the page that says: History of Menudo Gay Sex Scandal" as this is an unsubstantiated and misleading link to a fansite (www.menudo.biz) which eventually leads to a 17-year-old tabloid alleged report.

Thank you. Christopher R (talk) 10:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher R (talk • contribs) 09:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

According to Dreaded Walrus, this was done prior but somehow was allowed to be reinserted. Christopher R (talk) 10:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I removed the link earlier today (as well as a link that redirects to the same page as another link), but it was reverted by a now-blocked user, and User:Irishguy just removed the section in question. I didn't notice the links were still in the article until Christopher R requested the links be removed again on his talk page.

So yes, I would like to second this request for an edit to a protected page. --Dreaded Walrus 15:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Removed. IrishGuy 16:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks muchly. :) --Dreaded Walrus 16:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thats vandal and you know it. I sent email to Jimbo and called and left a message and I hope he fixes this unethical conduct you guys.--Blue5864 (talk) 16:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Blue5864, it is not unethical and I doubt that Jimbo will side with you Alexfusco5 16:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm with Alexfusco5 on this one. The very first time I interacted with you was to suggest that referring to other people's edits (including those of administrators) as vandalism just because you disagree with them is not what we do here, and you just get back from the block and do the same thing. The link that was removed does not fit in with our external links policy. Dreaded Walrus 16:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Cookie

Can't we all just get along.--Blue5864 (talk) 16:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC) --Blue5864 (talk) 17:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we certainly can. What you really need to do is read our policies on sourcing (WP:CITE, WP:BLP). If you can source your statements to, say, CNN, the New York Times, and mainstream publications, rather than a personal website, then you'll have an easier time. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 17:20, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I will sand box a revision with more sourced and see if the archives have any thing from the news they did on the scandal I am sure its there just have to dig for it. Anywho read the new tread by Chen below. Thanks--Blue5864 (talk) 18:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I wanted to stay calm but...

Could we be a bit more inclusive in this dispute? I've been in contact with Blue5864 and overseeing the changes here since the dispute started about a week ago. As far as I could tell, none of us here are more of an expert to the matter than the few major participants in here - Blue5864, Christopher R and (probably) Dreaded Walrus.

Although Misplaced Pages has strict guidelines on external links, which favours "mainstream" media, specialists websites and references in the relevant field should be given (sometimes even disproportionate) attention. From the layout and contents of menudo.biz I couldn't see anywhere of it looking like a "personal website" - rather it's like a specialist site dedicating to the matter. And these are important (primary or secondary) sources concerning controversies of a subject.

An analogy is from scientific articles - mainstream media usually has low credibility in these fields. More often than not a research website set up by high school students should be given more credibility than probably a newspaper. The same applies here.

Misplaced Pages is to be neutral. Being neutral doesn't mean being safe and following the mainstream. Rather, it is taking into account all the major views and drawing a balance between them. No one knows (at least most editors up here) if the scandal is true; but if someone said so, why on earth would we reject the claim entirely saying that there are no place for such (extraterrestrial) claims?

A more appropriate (IMO) approach to the matter could be including the idea of the paragraph and rephrasing as "xxx alleged that... CNN reported that... and etc. etc."

And to Blue5864 - if said in that website about third-party sources (eg. CNN) are all claims that have been made, produce some evidence. That will give credibility to the whole case. If not, then I might probably also dismiss menudo.biz as another unreliable source. Sorry for being long-winded. --Deryck C. 17:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you whole heartedly and will sandbox the paragraph with even more sourced than already is. Thank you for the comments. --Blue5864 (talk) 17:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

First off, I wish to thank all of you admins and editors for keeping a clear and cool head throughout this episode, especially in my case  :) Open discussion and communication is key here.

Second, the following paragraph (located as the last paragraph under the 2000s heading) was recently added and is nothing more than an advertisement. I believe that it was added for no reason other than McGilliss's (Blue5864) personal gain and request that it also be removed.

"Released 2007, on McGillis Records is the release of Triple Threat DVD/CD Combo . The box set includes the MENUDO film The Making of Dancin Movin Shakin for the first time on DVD. Also included is Volume One of the Music CD "Latin Teen Stars" featuring hit songs by Menudo, ex-menudo members Angelo Garcia and Ruben Gomez, The Cover Girls, Explosion, and Joel. The last CD included in the 3 disc set is Dance Music All Night Long containing dance mixes of the hottest traxs by Menudo and ex-menudo members mixed by the famed American music producers: Bad Boy Bill, Lewis A. Martinee of Expose fame and New Yorks very own Mickey Garcia."

Thank you 76.108.146.149 (talk) 17:56, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

that is nothing more than the new record company of menudo trying to dominate the Menudo company rights--Blue5864 (talk) 18:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

No Darrin, you are incorrect. That section that you are trying to post in is reserved for HISTORY, and if you'll read the page, does not have any PRODUCT advertisements in it from any companies whatsoever, except for the one you keep reposting. Admins, please remove it as previously requested. Thank you Christopher R (talk) 18:08, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I would consider a rewrite but I won't remove it completely - it's common practice for band-related articles to have a section about their products. --Deryck C. 18:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Deryck, I will get a paragraph rewrite finished ASAP.

In the meantime - Some very interesting information has come to light about Mr Darrin McGillis (Blue5864) and we will share it with the rest of the world on Monday (12/10/07) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher R (talk • contribs) 19:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

A sincere apology

I just want to say I sincerely apologize for my behavior yesterday. While there is no excuse for bullying tactics of any sort, I was at wits-end and having no prior knowlege of the Wiki protocol necessary to evoke change, was in somewhat of a panic. I'm pretty sure my frustration was quite evident, so I won't continue to elaborate. Now that I have calmed down and understand the process, I completely see my errors. Through the help of yourself, Dreaded Walrus, and Antandrus, the situation is now somewhat contained and we can now move forward with damage control.

The launching of a Boy-Band is a carefully orchestrated process, especially one with worldwide auditions, pre-auditions, not one but two MTV shows, trademark clearances, etc. All in all it is pretty daunting... in and of itself.

Jose, Monti, Chris, Emmanuel, and Carlos have worked exceptionally hard to make it through the process to this point. Incredibly long-hours, crazy travel schedules, rehearsals, more rehearsals, and little sleep. But having stuff like this individual suddenly smearing irrelevant, 17 year-old, tabloid headlines: "DRUGS and GAY SEX SCANDAL" all over the internet has truly tested my mettle.

Again, I apologize for my lack of knowlege, patience, and protocol yesterday and look forward to being a harmonious cog in the great Wiki wheel.

Christopher R (talk) 18:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I will strike your warnings Alexfusco5 19:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Christopher I needed the above to prove who I was actually dealing with and now you have provided it. I can assure you that your calling me "NUTSO" and intentional tort is actionable to say the least. I again thank you for confirming who you are and who you are working for we will be in touch soon.--Blue5864 (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

the above shows conflict and Christopher R should be prohibited from posting here as he is employed with the Menudo group we do not delete sourced docs because its scandalous we delete only if its unsourced. In his own words he has a conflict--Blue5864 (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

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