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Revision as of 22:17, 5 April 2008

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This article was nominated for deletion on 2007-03-18. The result of the discussion was Speedy keep.

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Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Ethnic groups Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks: Here are some open WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks: Meta-tasks: Place the {{Ethnic groups}} template on the talk page of articles within the scope of this project. Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution: Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention Iyer Peruvian people Start an article: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests Feel free to edit this list or discuss these tasks.

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Removal of 'Refimprove' tag

I've removed the 'Refimprove' template tag from the top of the article, which requested that users submit more verifiable references. As of this edit, the article has around 6000 words, and over 100 references. Unless there is something else at work here that I haven't noticed during my (admittedly cursory) read-through, I think we can safely say that the content is well-sourced. --PeruvianLlama 05:28, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

You are correct, but I think that this article still needs to be improved in some ways (See "Re organization at the bottom of the page) -(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 13:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC))

Barak Obama picture

It should be moved one paragraph down to the part that talks about his "Blackness" issue during his 2008 campaign. Though really I don't even think his picture should be here since he is 50% White, so not Black.

Afro-Arabs and Obama

Just to jump into a real thicket, a few points To help improve two WIKI articles on an increasingly controversial topic:

• The Afro-Arab article is a messy stub that needs to be beefed up with some of the useful material in the "Middle East" section, as well as better definitions of how the phrase generally is used (working on it);
• Despite what this article says, given the (not addressed here) Sudan issues on black Africans and Arabs, seems the "Middle East" section should be renamed "North Africa and the Middle East";
• Obviously there are (prejudiced sounding) claims that Obama's relatives are African Arabs and/or Muslims. While I'm no genealogist and haven't tracked down a reliable source yet in online searches (and haven't read his books) it seems this would be relevant given Obama gets coverage in this article. So Wiki actually can shed reasonable light on an issue ;-) Carol Moore 00:36, 14 March 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc {talk}

I am not surprised there would be attacks on Obama and alleged Arab connections. I wager that the same folks who are pushing an 'Aryan' model by stealth on Misplaced Pages across a number of articles are behind it. The source shown below exposes a lot of these falsehoods. I'll check out what you say.

http://wysinger.homestead.com/keita-1993.pdf Mojabba (talk) 03:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Re organization

Would it be better to classify races by ancestry rather than skin color? For instance, there may be dark skinned peoples in Australia and Africa, but they are of very different lineage. I think that the articles that concern races and ethnic groups such as this article should be classified in the following manner:

• African Ethnic Group(s)

• Caucasian Ethnic Group(s)

• Asian Ethnic Group(s)

• Native American Ethnic Group(s)

Each article would have information such as the history of each group. Then, there would be an ethnic category, in which all of the ethnic group articles would fall.

What do all of you think of the idea?-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 18:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC))

The human race section of this article is a bit irrelevant. This should only be on the Human Race article, not here. I'll delete it on someone's permission.--(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 20:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC))

On the contrary, I find it quite relevant as background info. Please leave it in.--Ramdrake (talk) 21:22, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

O.K. Leave it there! No ignoramus brainwashed by PC curriculum will recognize that it is a collection of mendacious crap. Considering how many such types are present here, the harm for Misplaced Pages will be minimal. And don't forget to add that we are all Africans under the skin and gorillas and chimpanzees are our brothers and sisters. Centrum99 (talk) 22:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Today most scholars have abandoned these views and see race as a social construct with no biological basis.

NO support for MOST Scholars statement Race is a word that begs definition, it does exist form a medical treatment standpoint. " most scholars have abandoned " Academic scholars frequently bow to peer pressure,as long as there is tenure their will be conformity but this has nothing to do with truth. Race only in a medical sense has been proven. Its relevance outsides that physical sphere is another argument.Stevo46 (talk) 22:02, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. Could you please make your comment more clear?

If we are to classify race by social structure rather than ancestry, there is still much re organization to be done.-(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 15:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC))

Please, we should erase all the ludicrous garbage from the article! It is not only outdated, but even misinterpreted and falsified! I found out that it was a person called "Muntuwandi", who implanted this rubbish there one year ago. For example, the quotation "any two individuals within a particular population are about as different genetically as any two people selected from any two populations in the world" is not a conclusion of Witherspoon's paper (2007), but a quotation of American Anthropological Association from 1997 that Witherspoon et al. actually refute in their study. Not speaking about that the "small" 15% interpopulation divergence in humans is typical for mammals that biologists routinely divide into subspecies. The author of the Fst value, Sewall Wright, said it himself explicitly! And the insane claim that "Today most scholars have abandoned these views and see race as a social construct with no biological basis" may be praised in USA and some multiracial Western countries, but not in the whole world, where scientists still have enough common sense. This article is a disgrace for the whole Misplaced Pages! Unfortunately, it is not the only one about human differences that is filled with this pseudoscientific, politically-motivated crap. Centrum99 82.100.61.114 (talk) 23:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Centrum, I'm afraid you ran out of credibility a long time ago.--Ramdrake (talk) 23:35, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't remember that you have ever had any credibility, not speaking about knowledge. Centrum99 82.100.61.114 (talk) 00:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Some suggestions:

Today most scholars in USA and Western Europe have abandoned these views...

Breakthroughs in genetics and the mapping of the human genome in the late twentieth century have helped dispel many of the earlier myths about race. At least 99.9% of any one person's DNA is exactly the same as any other person's, regardless of ethnicity.

UNSUBSTANTIED CLAIMS OR IRRELEVANT TO THE VALIDITY OF RACE. BREAKTHROUGHS IN GENETICS SUPPORT THE VALIDITY OF RACE MORE AND MORE.

Of the 0.1% variation, there is an 8% variation between ethnic groups within a race, such as between the French and the Dutch. On average, only 7% of all human genetic variation lies between major human races such as those of Africa, Asia, Europe, and Oceania.

GENERALIZED AND INCORRECT CLAIM, TRUE ONLY FOR SOME DNA MARKERS:

The proportion of genetic variation within continental groups (~93%) is therefore far greater than that between the various continental groups (~7%)

HARDLY CORRECT. THE INTERRACIAL (INTERCONTINENTAL) VARIATION IS FAR GREATER, BECAUSE THE INTERPOPULATION FST VALUE IS LOWERED BY SMALL FST DISTANCES AMONG CLOSELY RELATED GROUPS:

Or to put it another way, "any two individuals within a particular population are about as different genetically as any two people selected from any two populations in the world.

A CLAIM BASED ON OUTDATED SOURCES (VALID ONLY FOR A SMALL NUMBER OF MARKERS) AND - FOR GOODNESS'S SAKE!!! - TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT FROM AN ARTICLE THAT REFUTES IT!!!

Because of these facts, there is general agreement among biologists that human racial differences are too small to qualify races as separate sub-species.

A COMPLETE FABRICATION THAT IS NOT BASED ON ANY FACTS. WHAT ABOUT QUOTING SEWALL WRIGHT OR A RECENT PRESENTATION OF HENRY HARPENDING AT THE Meeting of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists?

http://www.physanth.org/annmeet/aapa2007/aapa2007schedule.pdf

http://www.paxhumana.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160

NO WORD ABOUT THE CLASSICAL TYPOLOGY OF SUB-SAHARAN AFRICANS (HIGHLY CONSISTENT IN ALL PROMINENT ANTHROPOLOGISTS OF THE 20TH CENTURY) AND ONLY 3 SENTENCES ABOUT PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES OF AFRICAN POPULATIONS. AGAIN, IGNORANCE WINS. BUT NOTES ABOUT OPPRESSION, APARTHEID AND OTHER SOCIAL ISSUES MUST BE ADDED AT ANY COST.

Centrum99 82.100.61.114 (talk) 00:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say that different human races were sub species. Please read my comment again. --(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 02:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC))

Race of ancient Egyptians section should be removed

That section is already it's own article and does not need to be here since it is very controversial. Also most people labeled "Black" living away from Africa are descent from Western Africa which is far away from Egypt so they have nothing to do with Egypt anyway. Also ancient Egypt, like today's Egypt, was very mixed and people didn't really label each other as "Black", so the term "Black" has nothing to do with them. Anyone else agree that that section should be removed from this article?

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