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Toše Proeski

You undid my revision on that page... Can you please locate on the source provided there: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7046808.stm

linked as: <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7046808.stm</ref> He died in an automobile accident in ] on ] ].<ref name="focus"/>,

the citation that proves this:

"and was called "Elvis Presley of the Balkans" by the BBC".

If you can't, I wanna know why you undid my revision. The whole thing sounds too POV. But, that could be ok, if at least there was a source that proved such a thing cited to be true. The source provided, however, does not state this thing.Heracletus (talk) 18:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I apologize, I hadn't read this particular source because I assumed it was the same article that I read a couple of months ago which did, in fact, refer to him as just that - "Elvis Presley of the Balkans". Though you are free to modify or remove the sentence, I strongly advise you to discuss it on the article's talk page, as someone else made that particular contribution and I personally oppose the removal of sources from any article. Kobra85 (talk) 01:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Rihanna & FYROM Airplay Chart

It's really funny how you mixed music & politics. Firstly, the site you mention is a radio chart and not the official airplay chart of F.Y.R.O.M. therefore it is not an important chart. Imagine what would happen if every person adds the radio charts of their countries. A complete chaos. Do not compare the OFFICIAL IFPI Singles Chart of Greece which is based on SALES or the Greek AIRPLAY which is based on plays of all radios in Greece and not just one. In case you find an official airplay chart of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia that's fine since it's the official one and represents the airplay of the whole country. --Chronisgr (talk) 11:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

It is you of course since you attacked me and didn't want to understand that they reason that i deleted the chart was because it was a radio chart and not because it was a chart of Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. And you're completely wrong about the warnings. Only a person who comes from Skopje was opposed of changing the "Macedonia" into the official name Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia or F.Y.R Macedonia which is used by EBU. And exactly, it is an encyclopedia and official names should be used instead of unnofficial ones or the ones we like for instance. Like it Or Not :-) --Chronisgr (talk) 12:00, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

You were the one who mentioned the name issue! Please read again. And so what if an website(there are thousands and even more which are about charts) called "World Charts" has the chart of a radio as the official chart of Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia? Can it be compared to the singles charts of other countries or the official airplay ones? Obviously, there's no other website in which there's an airplay chart of F.Y.R.O.M. and they added this which is a radio chart and does NOT represent the airplay of the country. And if i'm right there is a capital city called Skopje, right? Plus, what i am and what i believe it's my job and none of your business and vice versa of course. Thank you.--Chronisgr (talk) 19:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Tha Realest

Is it possible to link to the previous XfD? I'm looking at Witness Tha Realest Mix Tape and Witness Tha Realest Mixtape and have no doubt that you're right, but is there a way to indicate a previous AfD in that {{db-repost}}? Just so the admin can make sure. For instance, with these, I don't see an article that was up for discussion, though it was probably a differently spelled name.

Anyway, let me know? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 07:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I looked as well, unfortunately I could not find a discussion. I do, in fact, remember there already being an article for this subject and I think it was deleted due to this discussion. Köbra 07:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Invite

I thought you might like to join WP:MKD. You're contributions to Macedonia-related articles have been great, and we need more people like you who don't concentrate on the usual articles (history/politics/linguistics etc.). BalkanFever 14:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

ethnic Macedonian or Republic of Macedonia?

I started a discussion regarding article names here. If you have an opinion please voice it. BalkanFever 02:20, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Assessment

Me again :). I see you are assessing articles, which is great. I think at some point we (me, you and anyone else who wants to) should fix the importance scale, and add examples of different types of articles (biographic, geographic, musical etc.) so that it is easier to assess many articles quickly. What are your thoughts? BalkanFever 03:09, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

In my opinion, the importance scale is great as it is, thought you are right — it would be nice to include better examples because it seems that very few articles are being assessed on WikiProject Republic of Macedonia. Many of the examples used have, themselves, not been assessed in this sense. Köbra 04:17, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

That was my fault - I never got around to actually assessing those articles. With cities though - should we make them all the same importance or base it on population/article quality. Essentially we could have Štip and Demir Hisar at the same importance because they are both towns, but the former has a significantly higher population and is probably more well known to foreigners, and the latter is a stub. That's why I initially thought there should be more criteria. It would be easier to have a value of importance beforehand, so that we can just copy and paste assessment over a large number of similar articles, instead of manually typing in the parameters for each article when we come across it. BalkanFever 05:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

We should consider the notability of topics outside of the Republic of Macedonia when assessing articles which may be related. Articles such as Skopje would be of "Top" importance as it is quite notable outside of the Republic of Macedonia, unlike Štip. Prilep is also a city, thought it would have a lower importance than Skopje, such as "High", as it is very notable in the Republic of Macedonia but rarely outside it. Köbra 05:16, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Other than Skopje, I think most cities would be the same importance (Prilep, Stip, Bitola, Kumanovo), and small towns/villages would be lower. However, administrative units (municipalities) are not really notable at all as far I know, even though they are actually larger than the cities themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BalkanFever (talk • contribs) 05:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

True. Assessments should primarily be based on an articles notability outside of the Republic of Macedonia and subsequently the country itself. As with Lake Ohrid, I rated this articles as being of "High" importance as it is a UNESCO World Heritage site and somewhat notable in areas of research outside of Macedonia. Köbra 06:04, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

OK that makes sense. I will try and assess articles according to that criteria. The problem is most Macedonian things aren't very notable outside the country anyway, and I can only guess their notability in Macedonia. BalkanFever 06:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Quick request

In the future, if you could use {{Film}} instead of {{WikiProject Film}}, I'd be very grateful. Although the latter one automatically redirects to the former, it has been deprecated, and we're trying to phase out its usage as task force tagging slowly occurs over the next year or so. Knowing that it's not being added to new articles would put me greatly at ease. Thanks! Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 08:41, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Macedonia naming dispute

I've assessed this article as "Top importance", because I think it is fairly notable in the international community, and it is a very important topic in the Republic of Macedonia. If you disagree, I'm happy to go with what you think, as you seem to better at assessment than me. BalkanFever 08:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Your comment on Abecedar

Austrian and Hungarian aren't Slavic. You should probably remove that. BalkanFever 08:27, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Abecedar

hi I have one small question. Can you talk little bit with The Cat and the Owl user to stop remove the Macedonian language from the article? I have put Macedonian and Slavic language and he is constantly removing the Macedonian. Please let him stop doing that. Macedonian should be written there. regards--MacedonianBoy (talk) 10:21, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

On the other hand

Could you be kind enough to provide me proof that these partisans were Macedonians (ethnic) and that the soldiers are indeed Bulgarians (it is not clear from the photograph). --Laveol 12:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but that's not for me to say. It was Revizionist who uploaded the image, so I think it would be best if you asked him. I only reverted your edit on the grounds that it was first contributed by a shady IP contributor from Bulgaria. The edit also seems to be stimulant to the idea that only the Communist partisans can be labeled "Macedonian" and not "Bulgarian" before 1944. Because, "on the other hand", Serbs too were Bulgarians ;) Köbra 12:36, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Just for a rough comparison (uniform-wise), I'll provide you with a couple images of Bulgarian soldiers during WWII. , . Köbra 12:47, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Jingiby and Frightner

In order to save Fut. Perf. the spam, I'll ask you here. Whatever Jingiby did does it justify your own actions? Do you really think that it justified them? --Laveol 00:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

If you look at the fact that I haven't made a single disruptive edit (all of which were contained within talk pages in the first place) since Jingiby was banned, then the answer to your question is yes. I also don't want to have to remind you that I was banned only after requesting it, before that I was merely blocked for disruptive editing on a single talk page. I never had anything against Bulgarian editors that didn't go around spreading their bias about ethnic Macedonians being Bulgarian, like you for example. But then you started going around kissing asses (figuratively) of those editors' that did (Jingiby and Neutron), after I insulted them. Quid pro quo, I say. Köbra 07:39, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Messenger

Are you online? I've just added you. BalkanFever 09:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

In a little while. Darn thing won't log in at the moment. Köbra 09:17, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

No personal attacks

Refrain from using contagious language as you did here, here and here (quote "get that through your thick head"); you are in direct violation of WP:CIVIL and Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. --157.228.x.x (talk) 12:07, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Coming from you, it means nothing to me. Köbra 12:29, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and none of those a personal attacks, if you took offense, that's your problem. Köbra 12:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmm in light of your attitude and continuous aggressive language, I will ask some external opinion on this. Are you seriously saying that "get that through your thick head" is not a personal attack and a deeply uncivil commend? --157.228.x.x (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 12:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

No, it's a suggestion. Köbra 12:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Edit warring - template

What is this sudden quest of eliminating the template from relevant (and somewhat relevant) articles, as you did for example here, here, here … and here (and in, no less than, *40* other articles in the last 2 days)? In most of them the template was there for months and no-one raised any concerns what-so-ever. Discuss your edits in the talk pages and refrain from edit-warring and reverting numerous other edits in the process, too. Your editing has become disruptive. --157.228.x.x (talk) 12:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Incase you haven't realised, templates which do not contain an article should not be placed on that article, I just never had the time to removed the template. It seems to me as though you just want the article to have a hint of the word "FYROM" which is why you changed Republic of Macedonia to FYR of Macedonia. This was not a problem before either. Köbra 12:35, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I have partially changed few instances of "Republic of Macedonia" to "FYR Macedonia" or similar, when and only when, the article was referring to the Eurovision Song Contest, in accordance of WP:MOSMAC and common sense. The template is a mean of navigation so we can direct our readers to pertinent sections, overview and specialised articles. It is not a means of antagonistic politics, or a kindergarten-type contest. I repeat, please refrain from your aggressive attitude, uncivil comments, personal attacks and edit warring. --157.228.x.x (talk) 12:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Well the articles you are adding the template to already have a link to the Eurovision page, so don't add it. And you should stop with your stupid accusations. Köbra 13:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Even though it's becoming clear that this is a futile attempt of reasoning with you, I’ll briefly answer. For the first part, it is not the Eurovision song contest that we are presenting here. It is the “Music of the Republic of Macedonia.” The Eurovision related articles are just a subset of. The majority of the pages from which you are removing the template from, are irrelevant to Eurovision. That’s exactly why, I have not changed RoM to FYROM in those articles (since there was a consensus to keep this country under "Republic of Macedonia"). As for your continued incivility, well, as I said, probably external opinion is the way forward here. --157.228.x.x (talk) 13:21, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Go ahead. Köbra 13:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

ANI

Hello, Köbra. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at WP:ANI regarding Incivility, personal attacks, edit warring. The discussion can be found under the topic Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Incivility.2C_personal_attacks_.26_edit_warring_by_User:Kobra85. --157.228.x.x (talk) 16:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

OK. Good luck. Köbra 17:44, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

НОВ

Здраво КОБРА, ја порано придонесував во македонската и италијанската википедија, али више година дена скоро не се занимавам со тоа. Но сеуште одвреме навреме влегувам во поважни статии поврзани со Македонија и со фудбал. Ја многу го поштувам тоа што го правиш на статии поврзани со Македонија на англискава википедија, ама имам впечаток дека попречуваш статијата за НОВ да биде убава и детална. Зошто го правиш тоа? Македонец ли си? --77.29.65.72 (talk) 20:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

NOB

Dear Kobra, it would be appropriate if you stop this edit-war which may soon evolve in vandalism. You can not erase 80% of the article which is backed with references and beautiful quality images and maps. Also the text is very informative. If you continue with this kind of incivil behavior I will have no other choice than to do the same thing user 157.228.x.x did - that is, to complain to the administration about your behavior. Regards. --Revizionist (talk) 15:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

With your last message you passed the line. --Revizionist (talk) 15:43, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I bear no shame for your own misunderstanding of the English language. Köbra 15:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Man, really, you ought to know better. Calm down. If you don't stop those insults there's little that can stop you from getting blocked/banned again. Is it fun cultivating this outlaw image? Don't. Final warning. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:52, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Dang, I forgot people (outside of Australia) aren't a custom to everyday Aussie vernacular. Be that as it may, can you please show me a direct insult which I may have made? Köbra 15:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

lol "outlaw"? Not at all. If you see me that way... well, I don't know, but... lol. Köbra 16:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

template

can you tell me please what is the reason for your removal of the macedonianmusic template? i notice its gone from many mk music-related articles. not that it was perfect but still its useful. thanks --Dzole (talk) 16:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC) I mean there must be something that will interlink all those articles, otherwise they would stay scattered around wikipedia without any mutual relation --Dzole (talk) 16:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

And they are "scattered around wikipedia without any mutual relation"... The articles the template was featured on were not even contained withing the template... The template was irrelevant anyway, now we have the 'Macedonian female musicians' template and I'll create severeal templates for Macedonian male artists and music groups etc. Köbra 08:17, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

can you first make the templates that you intend to make and THEN start to remove the old ones? Basically , what you do is vandalizing.

I understand what you are trying to say, but check articles such as Toni Kitanovski or Dragan Karanfilovski-Bojs for example, after you removed the template they are not connected to the main Music of the Republic of Macedonia article in any way. There must be some order here. Visitor who reads about Kitanovski may be interested about further info.

Also, have you checked Karolina Gočeva#See also after you reverted recently? theres a problem with your female musicians template. Can you first make everything you intend to properly, and THEN remove the old stuff?

Also, how will you solve specific cases like the opera Goce for instance? Its not a band, not a male, nor a female artist. You will make a new template "Macedonian operas" just for one single article? Sorry for the irony, but I dont really understand why are you starting this mess for no reason. We dont have too many macedonian articles and lot of them are quite bad. New templates are the last thing we need. I admit, that old template was not perfect, but again it was useful, now I cant go thorugh all the mk articles and put "See also: Music of the Republic of Macedonia" if you know what i mean. --Dzole (talk) 16:18, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

You know, not every article needs a template. If I were you, I would learn to spell before I accuse other Wikipedians of being vandals. Köbra 13:03, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

My spelling is not the subject here, instead of being cynical, can you please fix the problems you created yourself? For example Karolina Gočeva#See also, it's still the same, your template doesn't appear properly. Obviously you didnt check it. --Dzole (talk) 00:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't appear properly because there are some idiots who are messing with it. If I put it there, it would be at the bottom (under External links), not under "See also". Köbra 08:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

One more revert, and you will brake the 3RR, which will open the possibility of an administrative ban for you (in addition to the vulgar language and incivil behavior in the past weeks). --Revizionist (talk) 15:47, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not a moron, I know how many times I can revert an article. Don't patronise me, Revizionist, you shouldn't make such threats, considering you've created several articles which violated copyright and have been deleted... I wouldn't be surprised if what you have contributed was a word-for-word translation from a book. No offense, but you don't know anything about military warfare, I bet you don't even know what a FlaK is. Stick to your pseudo-commie websites and books and I'll do my best to create an encyclopedia-worthy article. Köbra 16:02, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

By the way, if you say 80% one more time, then I'll know just how full of it you really are. Köbra 10:33, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Reply

Macedonian hip hop

At this moment its not possible to make good individual articles about each of the mentioned Macedonian hip hop artists. The MK music scene in general is not so big as the US or British and there are not much books or other stuff to get info from. It will require deeper research, sources and time, unless you want only ugly stubs consisting of 2-3 sentences max. Take a look at the pop-rap artist Ugro for instance. I dont think we should make more and more stubs just for the sake of it. Even the already existing mk music articles are not good at all. Check Arhangel, a famous rock band, but its just a forgoten stub with no references. Thats why lets not rush to split Macedonian hip hop into like 100 short stubs. At least for now. After all, there are much worse articles from much bigger countries, look at Greek hip hop. There are many people in Macedonia who could contribute to the mk rap subject, but they dislike Misplaced Pages, because of the politicaly motivated edit warring here etc. Thats why, if you create new artists stubs, most probably they will remain such forever.

Another subject

Why do you remove "born in SR Macedonia" and leave only SFRY for Macedonian celebrities born during the ex-YU period? I'm reffering to Milcho Manchevski for instance. This problem has been discussed already on Misplaced Pages, but a final solution was not found.

Examples: England is not a souvereign country and its a constituent part of the UK. Its citizens hold British, not English passports, but see:

• John Lennon, listed as born in England, the UK is not mentioned;
• Paul McCartney born in England. UK not mentioned;
• George Harrison born in England. UK not mentioned;
• Ringo Starr b. in England. UK not mentioned;
• Mick Jagger b. in England. UK not mentioned;
• Keith Richards b. in England. UK not mentioned;
• Robbie Williams, b. in England. UK not mentioned;

Other examples: The former Soviet Republics were not souvereign countries but constituent parts of the USSR. But anyway, they are mentioned in many articles:

• Mikhail Gorbachev, listed as born in the Russian SFSR. USSR is indeed mentioned, but so is RSFSR, although it wasnt an independent country.
• Alexander Lukashenko listed as born in the Byelorussian SSR. USSR is mentioned, but BSSR was not an independent country;

My question is: why only the Macedonian celebs born during ex-YU must have SFR Yugoslavia only, without SR Macedonia (the sub-national entity)? I find it discriminating. If the English Wikipedians can claim their own artists or politicians as English and not British, then why SRM can't do the same? SFRY can be also mentioned if thats SO important.

See:

• Elena Risteska (b. in Yugoslavia)
• Kaliopi (same)
• Andrijana Janevska (same)
• Dani Dimitrovska (same)

--Dzole (talk) 22:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

P.S. why did you put "active/inactive" in the female musicians' template? is that so important? Sorry to say this but I find some of your edits quite unecessary. No personal offence, but really --Dzole (talk) 23:18, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that way, but the Macedonian female musicians template is actually an exact copy of a template used for musicians from other countries. As for "SR Macedonia", the articles you mentioned are musicians, therefore their 'Origin' states they are from 'Macedonia', so why does the fact that it says they were born in SFR Yugoslavia bother you? Unless you were born after 8 September, 1991, then you (too) were born in SFR Yugoslavia. Besides, most of those have "present-day Republic of Macedonia" in the introduction. Same with the Milcho Manchevski article, even though there is no 'Origin' section in the infobox. I am a Macedonian (ethnic), but I have the decency to remain neutral, if that offends you, then perhaps you are not looking to create a neutral article (or articles) like I am. Köbra 10:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

About the template: Correct me if Im wrong, but I tried to search for foreign female artists templates, which may have served as an example for your MK template and the only thing I found was so far is Template:Greek Female Artists. I also checked some template categories but no success. I presume your MK template was based on the Greek one? If such templates also existed for all the relevant US, British or other artists, then I could accept your explanation. Otherwise, I dont see why we have to follow a pattern established in the greek articles only. No political motives from my side, its just if Greek editors decided to chose such a template solution, its not a norm for whole Misplaced Pages to follow.

About SR Macedonia with/out SFRY: I tried to be constructive, I explained everything in detail and I pointed to numerous examples (such as those worldwide prominent English musicians and ex-Soviet politicians) but obviously its wasnt helpful cause you continue to reply with certain dose of cynicism. No offence, but I have an impression that you want to impose yourself as a sole "administrator" of the majority of Macedonian articles. Such behaviour should not be tolerated and if it continues, Im afraid I will have to look for an admin help or use other instruments. Misplaced Pages should be built in a constructive way, not solely by unilateral actions. Thank you (with no cynicism) --Dzole (talk) 12:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)