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Our agreement is that Holocaust scholars are speaking about "only" 6 Holocaust Extermination camps (stupid definition but ....). Our agreement is that Holocaust scholars are speaking about "only" 6 Holocaust Extermination camps (stupid definition but ....).
Our disagreement is about creation of sub section other extermination camps. With knowledge that there has been many others extermination camps and sites (I know 7 of them) question is: Will we create subsection in ] for this camps ? Can you please hear your comments about this question in section Non involved users ?--] (]) 15:22, 20 October 2008 (UTC) Our disagreement is about creation of sub section other extermination camps. With knowledge that there has been many others extermination camps and sites (I know 7 of them) question is: Will we create subsection in ] for this camps ? Can you please hear your comments about this question in section Non involved users ?--] (]) 15:22, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

==RfC on ]==
Should the ] in Croatia, which operated from 1941-1945, be included in a list of ] extermination camps on ]. There is agreement that it was an extermination camp, but disagreement as to whether it counts as a death camp that was involved in, or associated with, the Holocaust.

Also, if it is included, should it be added to the section "Jews" or to "other victims," or should there be a new section to include camps such as Jasenovac?

Input would be most appreciated, as the current editors there are deadlocked. Please leave any comment in ]. Many thanks, <font color="Brown">]</font> <small><sup><font color="darkgreen">]</font><font color="Light green">]</font></sup></small> 16:44, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

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Mala Zimetbaum and millions of Holocaust victims and survivors

How notable is this person Mala Zimetbaum, and does she deserve an article of her own? There were millions of Holocaust so should they all get their own articles now? Doesn't that trivialize the event? Seems that if someone gets to write a book or gets mentioned somewhere, they then "automatically" become notable. What do you think? IZAK 16:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Her story is known to many who've studied Holocaust resistance and her personal courage has been widely taught and quoted in Holocaust commemoration. Her individual entry (like significant dozens though unlike "millions of Holocaust victims/survivors") in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust was written by Prof. Israel Gutman, eminent Holocaust historian, Warsaw ghetto survivor, longtime board member of Yad Vashem, and the Encyclopedia's chief editor. The page has undergone some further editing since your posting and would benefit from more which I'll undertake myself, such as adding the EH reference. The page still has non-encyclopedic content, possibly based on what information was available to the participating editors. (For example, the full text of the Eichmann trial testimony is available by Web link so needn't be included in full.) I would contend that in the case of Mala Zimetbaum your charge of questionable notability is misplaced, even in light of the page's content at the time you posted this entry. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:11, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Judaism vs. Jewish history

I'm not sure what's the difference? Can anyone offer an explanation?

WikiProject iconJewish history Project‑class
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related
ProjectThis page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

vs.

WikiProject iconJudaism Project‑class
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism
ProjectThis page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

Yours truly, --Ludvikus 21:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

No response appears here, and I've now reposted this question, slightly expanded. Shall alert you in consequence. -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:34, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

History of the Jews in Europe

History of the Jews in Europe has been added to the request for expansion list. At the moment it's got a very brief and incomplete history, and a list of individual country articles. Can anyone help make this the article it should be? Grunners (talk) 18:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Holocaust heroes - proposed list

As one of the editors on Oskar Schindler, I've noticed that the "See also" section there has become a virtual list of Holocaust heroes and is growing to an unwieldy size. Maybe it's time to create a "List of Holocaust Heroes" article (for want of a better term)? I'd be happy to do so, but first wanted to propose it here. JGHowes - 18:52, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

(further comment): I see there are already List of people who assisted Jews during the Holocaust, Righteous Among the Nations and List of Righteous Among the Nations by country. The problem is these aren't always shown as "See also" wlinks on some articles, which may also lack {{The Holocaust}} tags, thus the existence of these list articles is not always readily apparent to the casual reader. I'll do a Redirect page from "Holocaust rescuers" to List of people who assisted Jews during the Holocaust, matching the piped wikilink at {{The Holocaust}} JGHowes - 06:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry if I post this here in error, but I thought it might be of interest. I'd like to point out that our article about Albert Kesselring, among other things, asserts that "Kesselring attempted to save the Jews of Rome - as he had earlier saved those of Tunis - by employing them on the construction of fortifications", as if Kesselring was sort of Mr. Schindler in Field Marshall uniform, which left me speechless, so to speak (not quite: see here)... --Piero Montesacro (talk) 18:36, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Shoah in Norway

I have started what is likely to become an extensive article on the Shoah in Norway. Any help is appreciated, whether it's adding material, source references, or copyediting. I have also created Jewish deportees from Norway during World War II, which includes a comprehensive list of those who were deported to concentration camps, where the overwhelming majority were murdered. There has been one attempt at blanking this page, as it's quite specific; but as far as I know it's the only place on the web where this list exists. --Leifern (talk) 03:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I have written several additional articles, most of them biographical, of notable individuals who were deported from Norway - among them Cissi Klein, Ruth Maier, Berthold Epstein, and Moritz Rabinowitz. Leo Eitinger has had an article for some time, but articles will also be written about Herman Sachnowitz, Kai Feinberg, and Samuel Steinmann. There will also likely be separate articles about the underground railroad to Sweden, though this will include all those who made their way across the border; and also the restitution case in the mid-1990s, and what was known as the Feldmann case. With time, the issue of legal culpability for crimes against Jews in Norway will also get its own article, but this is a highly contentious issue, to this day. One question for the group: what should be the right category for articles related to the Shoah in Norway? Should it be Shoah in Norway, or perhaps Holocaust in Norway, or more specifically Persecution of Jews World War II Norway? Any thoughts? --Leifern (talk) 15:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Postage stamps and postal history of Israel

For the Israel stamp collectors and lovers, there is no article yet for Postage stamps and postal history of Israel (part of Category:Postal history by country) that would have so many Jewish themes. Feel free to go ahead and start it. (See the other country's in Category:Postage stamps by country that have theirs.) Nothing for Israel on Category:Postage stamps by country neither on List of country articles containing postal sections nor on List of philatelic bureaus. (but just a teeny note on Israel at Compendium of postage stamp issuers (Io - Iz).) This is truly a great shame and pity because Israel, and before that when it was the British Mandate produced and continues to issue the most beautiful and extensive stamps by any country. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 11:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

"Jewish Gestapo" and "Rabbi" Abraham Gancwajch?

Seems that User Lysy (talk · contribs) has just added articles about Jewish Gestapo and a "Rabbi" Abraham Gancwajch who worked with.for the Shoner HaTzair? Is this legit? Sounds very odd and the sources seem POV antisemitic. I redirected Jewish Gestapo to Group 13. See also some of the "funny" discussions at Talk:Tykocin pogrom. IZAK (talk) 13:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Antisemitism in Britain & Ireland


Why is there virtually nothing written on Misplaced Pages about antisemitism in Great Britain or Ireland?? This is a major historical & cultural subject. Antisemitism around the world has sections for numerous countries, but not the UK or Ireland. The History of the Jews in England details the medieval persecution & expulsion of Jews, but does not cover the modern history of Antisemitism, or attitudes & portrayals of Jews during the 19th & 20th centuries. It seems like a huge subject has just been glossed over. 86.133.3.140 (talk) 01:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

History of the Jews in the United Arab Emirates

Am I the only person who has a problem with the title of this article?--Kimdime69 (talk) 19:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

What problem do you have with it? --MPerel 19:15, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
My problem is that this article is about antisemitism in UAE and about UAE-Israel relations, it's not about the "history of the Jews in the United Arab Emirates", anyway I'm not sure that a jewish community existed in this country.--Kimdime69 (talk) 19:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
This is probably a more suitable discussion to bring up at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Jewish history, since it's not about Judaism, the focus of this project. --MPerel 20:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hello again : ) The article does seem to be more about modern policy toward Jews rather than about history of the Jews. --MPerel 21:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Correct, so the title is incorrect ;)--Kimdime69 (talk) 21:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Kimdime69: You are being too hasty. The Jews, as long-time residents and citizens of all areas in the Middle East have been part and parcel of all parts of the Arabian Peninsula as well. The information varies from location to location. The UAE leadership has carefully expunged any mention of its own country's Jewish history. As part of a series on the History of the Jews in the Arabian Peninsula the fact that the UAE dedicates so much effort and time to the question of Jews, makes it part of its own focus on Jewish history by default. Would you prefer that the article be called Antisemitism of the United Arab Emirates which it documents very well? IZAK (talk) 02:49, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Template:WikiProject Jewish history

Can someone explain why the {{WikiProject Jewish history}} template is broken, and hopefully fix it. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 05:50, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Solomon Marcus Schiller-Szinessy

Hello Sir or Madam I am the great-great-great-grand-daughter of the above. By chance I came up a Site yesterday on english Misplaced Pages titled Solomon "Mayer" Schiller-Szinessy and was more than astonished and shocked! His name was SolomonMarcus not Mayer, this is nonsense.

I saw the link to the jewish enceclopedya, they have it wrong, I already sent them a protest- email. I uploaded a copy of his death certificate on the "Mayer" site. Nobody ever in my family had a name like Mayer, it makes no sense having 3 Last names. The last name is Schiller-Szinessy. I have all my ancestry up until today, so I know his name well.

Check in Trinity College in Cambridge, I also have more proof about that, other certificates, I would be glad to help out with it if needed. It really did upset me when I saw it!


Most of the sites I googled, so many of them, have the name right, please check on it.

Also, I am not an expert on Misplaced Pages, I don't know how to change all the links to it, I tried desperately last night.

I really owe it to my ancestor to get things right. Thank you!

Barbados66 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Barbados66 (talk • contribs) 13:54, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Endangered image

Image:1938 Jews arrested during Kristallnacht line up for roll call at Buchenwald.jpg is tagged for deletion since it's an orphaned fair use image. Does anyone know if the image has ever been included in an article or whether a valid public domain claim can be made? It's from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum archives. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 07:39, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

History of Jews in Poland FAR

History of Jews in Poland has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

FAR nomination

Ku Klux Klan has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. OrangeMarlin 23:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Szmul Zygielbojm

A question has come up concerning the Bundist leader Szmul Zygielbojm and whether his religion should be shown in the infobox. Please comment at Talk:Szmul Zygielbojm#Religion. Thank you. — ] (] · ]) 23:11, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

History of the Jews in...

I don't think this heading is appropriate for the histories of the religion of Judaism of a particular country. Judaism is a religion, and it has even been suggested that Jews be properly called "Judaists," though this is not part of my proposal. The article History of the Jews in the United States, for instance, should be renamed to a simpler title like Judaism in the United States. You never see an article beginning with "History of the Roman Catholics in...," "History of the Protestants in...," "History of the Muslims in...," and the list goes on! Some of you may say Jews are an ethnic group, but even that doesn't support the supposed name of an article like "History of the Italians in the United States" or "History of the Caucasians in Africa." As far as I know, my ancestors were Italian Roman Catholics on my mother's side and Russian Jews on my father's side. Therefore, it can then be understood that I am half-Catholic and half-Jewish, or half-Italian and half-Russian. If we can see it this way, it will all make perfect sense. Thoughts? Marcus2 (talk) 19:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. The articles are not histories of the Jewish religion in this country or that, they are about the Jewish people. I think the same general rule applies with respect to Catholicism and Protestantism. An article about the history of the Catholic religion would be named History of Catholicism in X, but a history of Catholic people would be named History of Catholics in X or History of Catholic people in X.
I did a quick search for articles about "History of X in Y", but here are a few:
With the exception of the last article, which is misnamed in my opinion, the articles are titled consistently. — ] (] · ]) 21:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Here's an obscure one for ya: History of the Jews in China. I agree with Malik. There is a line between Jewish ethnicity and Jewish religion. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 22:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
The two of you make very good points, and I'm very impressed. There are people with other faiths, such as Roman Catholicism, Islam, and atheism, who profess themselves as being Jewish. But maybe we should separate "History of the Jews" from "History of Judaism" and have two separate articles titled, for example, "History of the Jews in the United States" and "History of Judaism in the United States." One article can focus on Jews as ethnics, and the other one can focus on adherents of Judaism. Or we could incorporate both into one article for each country, having a title such as "History of Jews and Judaism in the United States." I hope these suggestions help. Marcus2 (talk) 14:23, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
What would be the major focus of the "History of Judaism in the United States"? Do the Jews of America have rituals that differ greatly than those in other countries? I guess one thing would be to comment on the spread of Judaism within the continent, but, again, that falls in line with the spread of Jewish ethnic groups. Has Judaism itself (and not Jewish ethnic stereotypes) influenced American culture? I'm sure you could have a section about people who "profess themselves as being Jewish", but it seems like this small bit of material should be added to the "religion" sub-heading of the American Jews article. Or at least the "Judaism" sub-heading in Religion in the United States. Anyway, the questions above apply to any country with Jews. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 17:13, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I find here a basic misunderstand as to the meaning Jew, or Jewish, as opposed to Frenchman or German. All imply a Nation of People to which each belongs. However, the former always implies a Religion as well. This is a source of great misunderstanding. --Ludvikus (talk) 22:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Jewish question

There are attempts to create a "WikiProject Jewish question", currently at WikiProject Jewish question in the wrong namespace. Maybe someone more knowledgeable on the subject and/or on WikiProject organization than me might lend a helping hand. Huon (talk) 13:04, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Dido. I wish to start such a project as a subcategory within Jewish history. The two-term expression "Jewish question" connotes many different, complex, and confusing things. I am prepared to put in substantial work into such I project (as I have already). Hoever, I've Posted the stub in the wrong place. Please help. --Ludvikus (talk) 13:16, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
I moved the WikiProject page to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Jewish question. Huon (talk) 13:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
What is the purpose of the new WikiProject? There are currently two active Judaism-related WikiProjects: Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Judaism and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Jewish history. Attempts to start additional Judaism-related WikiProjects have failed (see Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Jewish culture, Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Orthodox Judaism, and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Progressive Judaism). Whatever articles might be under the purview of WikiProject Jewish question probably fall under the scope of this WikiProject, so why not include them here instead of creating a new WikiProject? — ] (] · ]) 18:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Article within scope of this project or not?

I'm not sure if this article is within the scope of this project or not. Please advise if it would be more appropriate at another project. I've been working on an article about a ship, USS Princess Matoika (ID-2290), a World War I-era U.S. Navy transport ship that was later purchased by the American Palestine Line. They briefly ran service from New York–Haifa on this ship—under the name of SS President Arthur—in the mid 1920s. The company officials were all reported as supporters of Zionism, and the ship itself flew the Zionist Flag (which, as far as I can determine, is essentially the Flag of Israel) while at sea. Not being Jewish, I'd like to make sure the article is WP:NPOV in regards to present-day names and/or terminology, since most of my sources were contemporary news accounts of the send-off for its maiden voyage and its other two voyages. The specific section of the article is entitled American Palestine Line. Thanks in advance. — Bellhalla (talk) 05:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Whether or not the article is within the scope of this WikiProject, I imagine that editors who belong to this WikiProject may be interested in helping. I would recommend that you post a similar message to Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Israel, where a greater number of editors with relevant expertise are likely to see it. — ] (] · ]) 17:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
PS: Great article. — ] (] · ]) 17:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion and the kind words. :) — Bellhalla (talk) 20:01, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Exile after the destruction of the Second Temple

I need some help on the Yerida article. A Palestinian nationalist ideologue is tried to add historical disinformation to the article that denies the reality of the exile of Jews from the Holy Land after the Second Temple was destroyed, and also denies the reality to modern day Jews are related to those Jews from antiquity. I'd like to expand the section with real history cited to mainstream sources, but I don't know enough about Jewish history to be able to do it justice. Would anybody volunteer to add just a short, 1 paragraph summary here? Thanks in advance. --GHcool (talk) 18:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

New Book Categories

Two brand new categories are available and waiting to be populated with articles:

I have created hundreds of new categories, but I've never previously made a point of making an announcement. However, it struck me as hugely ironic and quite astonishing that there were no categories for books about the "people of the book" (other than Holocaust books). So I hope, fellow editors, that you will make good use of these! Cgingold (talk) 22:33, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Spotlight

Spotlight

An article covered by this WikiProject, Kristallnacht, is currently under the Spotlight. If you wish to help, please join the editors in #wikipedia-spotlight on the freenode IRC network where the project is coordinated. (See the IRC tutorial for help with IRC)

...... Dendodge .. Talk 16:13, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Project Scope: Jewish History vs. Judaism

Hello, WProjectmates! I'm asking for guidance on policy and praxis: I continually encounter pages tagged with templates for the Judaism WikiProject for mainspace pages that clearly have little or nothing to do with Judaism (the religion) but a great deal to do with Jewish history. So what's the protocol for substituting the Jewish History WikiProject template there, for the sake of getting these pages on the appropriate "List of"... for further action?! NB: a similar question I posted on this very page nearly two (!) years ago has had no response and for all I know is still a current problem. Kindly provide illumination if there's something here I'm failing to understand. I respect projects in theory and practice, and decline to take singlehanded action if perhaps I'm out of line with some consensus as yet unknown to me.-- Thank you, Deborahjay (talk) 11:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Be bold and put the project tag on the talk page if you think it's warranted. I'd be a little less bold about removing the Project Judaism tag, though. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 17:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
I see; both points are well taken. Regarding possible action on the latter - I would want to be more active and post a head's-up message for the sake of getting the tagging-for-project evaluated for its appropriateness and further action. Which would be more effective:
Thanks, -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:13, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
The best advice I can give you is, before you remove any project tags, post some kind of a query at the project page. Bear in mind that a common response is that the more eyes on a page the better. Also, that project seems to me to be considerably more active than this one. By the way, which pages did you have in mind? --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 21:29, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Steven, thanks for your interest. I'd like this project to be suitably active in its own scope and am evaluating options for upping my own participation. As for samples of what I've encountered (tagged for the Judaism WikiProject but not the Jewish History WikiProject): how about Shmuel Katz and Habima Theatre? -- Deborahjay (talk) 18:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I have to agree in both cases. Katz should also probably be listed at WP:WikiProject Biography and Habima Theatre looks like it belongs under WP:WikiProject Theatre. Neither of those articles looks like it has anything to do with religion. You might benefit from a little information as to how articles come to be associated with projects. Usually what happens is someone makes a request for a bot to add a project tag to all the pages in a certain category. depending on how carefully thought out the request is, this can result in pages that have little or nothing to do with a topic being listed at the project associated with that topic. This has, from time to time, caused a certain amount of controversy. Anyway, I agree with the changes in project tagging that you're suggesting. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 18:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Disabilities and emancipation

I came upon the articles Disabilities (Jewish) and Jewish emancipation. Both are in a sorry state. The first is a stub, containing little content but a table of dates for emancipation copied from the second article. There is no information whatsoever on the nature of the disabilities. Even worse, the dates for emancipation are contradictory: Jewish emancipation states that emancipation in Germany was achieved in 1848, but the table and that article's map give 1971. Both dates are unsourced. The map seems highly unreliable, for example giving 1890 for the United Kingdom, which is almost certainly false (the relevant articles give the admission of the first Jew to Parliament in 1858 as the date of full legal emancipation). I'll try to improve the disabilities article from "should be deleted" to "good stub", but I'm no expert and wouldn't even know where to look for sources. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Huon (talk) 21:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Hungarian Gold Train

Hi. I created the article Hungarian Gold Train a while back and I see there hasn't yet been assessment by this project. This article likely can benefit from improvement by those from this project who probably know more about the topic than I do. --Oakshade (talk) 08:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Archives of old messages

I just archived messages from 2006 and 2007. They can be found in Archive 1 and Archive 2 respectively. Links to the Talk page archives can be found at the top of this Discussion section. — ] (] · ]) 19:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Polish-Jewish history

I'd like to invite interested editors to monitor the following articles:

Recent edits to these articles appear to rationalize 20th century Polish antisemitism, minimize it, or deny its existence altogether. Thank you. — ] (] · ]) 20:11, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The Return to Zion / Gathering of Israel

Two OR based articles now exist. Legit subject, needs major work. --Shuki (talk) 21:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Photo needing fair use rationales

Hi, this photo has recently been determined to be non-free. It is used in many articles, so it may need to be removed from some, and a fair use rationale needs to be written for articles in which it satisfies WP:NFCC. Thanks for your help, Mangostar (talk) 00:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Righteous Among the Nations template

The Righteous Among the Nations template has been the subject of some debate on its talk page. Although progress has been made, there remains disagreement concerning the order of Righteous Among the Nations by country, the inclusion of Twentieth convoy in lieu of an article on the Belgian Righteous Among the Nations, and the absence of a link to Chinese Righteous Among the Nations.

Input would very much be appreciated. The discussion begins under Order" and continues under "My proposal". 99.242.171.73 (talk) 16:40, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Jew GA Sweeps Review: On Hold

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed Jew and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have left this message at this WikiProject's talk page so that any interested members can assist in helping the article keep its GA status. In reviewing the article, I have found there are multiple issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left messages on the talk pages of the main contributors of the article and several other related WikiProjects. Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix if multiple editors assist in the workload. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 07:06, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I nearly choked when I read that section title on my watch list. I thought someone was making a pejorative comment about GA sweeps. I hope no one minds my wikilinking "Jew", so that it's clear that it refers to the article.OrangeMarlin 07:16, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for the confusion before. I have also reviewed Holocaust denial and have raised several issues on the talk page that need to be addressed for the article to remain a GA. Please consider assisting in addressing these issues to further improve the article. If you have any questions, please let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 08:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

some advice on "Aliyah to Israel and settlement" table

Hi eveyone,

I'd like to take your advice on the "Aliyah to Israel and settlement" table,

The creator of this table, has translated this table from the Hebrew wikipedia (I've seen it on one of the talk pages, if I'm not mistaken on the table's talk page), yet the table is not complete - it lacks of the "pre-Zionist" movement list of Aliya.

so, there fore I would like to change the table, in order to create future links to articles that I would like to translate, and the changes in the table, that I would like to make is as follows:


Aliyah to Israel and settlement

Pre-Zionist Aliyah

During the Middle Ages & Renaissance
During the Modern era
Prior to the founding of Israel
After the founding of Israel
Related topics

Jewish history • Jewish diaspora • History of the Jews in the Land of Israel • Yishuv • History of Zionism (Timeline) • Revival of Hebrew language • Religious Zionism • Haredim and Zionism • Anti-Zionism

(if you click on the English article of Pre-Zionist Aliyah, then link to its Hebrew article, you will be able to see the Hebrew table that I've taken it from):


yet, once I make those changes, I would be deleting, from the table's list, the link to the Yishuv haYashan (the old Yishuv) English article, that in the English Misplaced Pages's Article consist of many of the contents of the articles I want to add to the list, yet, the content of the English "old Yishuv", does not deal with the issues of the "old yishuv", but rather focuses on the articles I would like to add to the table's list.

so, before making those changes in the table, you need to change the content of the English article of "old Yishuv", in a way that will deal with the issues that concern the "old Yishuv" (Hence, I would like to translate it from the Hebrew wikipedia), and leave the current content of the English article of "Old Yishuv" to be dealt with the articles that I will add in the table (as the changes I am offering to the table above), and I will translate them as well.

I've already translated one article from Hebrew wikipedia to English, "Gathering of Israel", it was a candidate for AFD, and by rewriting it, I saved the subject.

What do you guys think?

--Shevashalosh (talk) 06:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The neutrality of the article Lehi (group)

Can one of the project memeber help on the article of Lehi (group)?

Since I'm pretty new here, you are probably more familiar with the protocols the are needed

The neutrality of the article is in dispute, I've placed a tag of it, but they removed it.

Here are some examples:


First:"Although the name of the group became "Lehi" only after the death of its founder, Avraham Stern, this article follows the common practice of referring to it by that name throughout its history."

(The whole sentence is not true, they called themselves Lehi, some brits were name calling them so (not Lehi themselves). I only heard of what the Brits name called them once before. 3 lines, dedicated to explaining why the article will use this in stead of a Lehi..!?


second, the whole portion of contacting the Nazis is of perplex to me:

They contacted the Nazis since they thought they could play against the Brits, they figured the Nazis didn't want Jews in Europe (some what unreasonable idea to me, yet they have done so) - and not for the sake of a "Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis" (never heard of this).

Third, "German plans such as the Madagascar Plan eventually failed and ultimately led the Nazis to initiate the Holocaust, the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question" in 1942,"

Not true. They wanted to murder Jews anyway.

What? Is this the reason for murdering 6 million Jews?

There is no reason to murder innocent 6 million Jews, not to speak of evacuating them from Europe nor if the plan is failed.

And of course, the whole article is full of name calling "terror" instead of "Lehi group" etc, as well as the category added (to it.

There is much more to it, those are just examples.

--Shevashalosh (talk) 08:40, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme

As you may have heard, we at the Misplaced Pages 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.

  • The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
  • The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
  • A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Misplaced Pages 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot (Disable) 21:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Category:Holocaust massacres and pogroms

On July 5, 2008 User:Hmains created a new category:

Hmains moved nearly all the articles from Category:Holocaust massacres and pogroms into it. I noticed this because I have some massacre articles of various types on my watchlist.

I looked again at a few of the recategorized articles, and the events described were massacres, and not just attacks and incidents. So I don't understand the recategorization.

Category:Antisemitism has the subcategory

Category:Holocaust antisemitic attacks and incidents is, in my opinion, a useful subcategory of it and Category:Holocaust. But Hmains has it categorized under Category:Holocaust massacres and pogroms.

Anyway, this is not an area I focus on, so I brought it here for others to work out. I also left a note at User talk:Hmains. --Timeshifter (talk) 04:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I've just left a note on Hmains' talk page myself, as he's been removing categories from hundreds of articles using AWB, and he indicates the changes are his personal preference. Firsfron of Ronchester 05:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't think you addressed my points. Also, you removed relevant categories (in my opinion) from Category:Holocaust massacres and pogroms. I tried to put them back, but you removed them again. Please see this diff: . But I don't intend to participate further in this discussion. I will let others (such as you and other members of this WikiProject) decide these issues. --Timeshifter (talk) 20:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Using AutoWikiBrowser in this manner is prohibited. "Don't do anything controversial with it. If there is a chance that the edits you are considering might be controversial, consider soliciting comment at the village pump or appropriate Wikiproject before proceeding." And now Hmains is reverting back to his preferred version on top of that (with edit summary of "read the contents before changing anything") Firsfron of Ronchester 20:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

C-Class rating?

Have the members of this project decided whether they would adopt the new "C-Class" rating, as discussed above? If yes, at your request, I could easily adjust the project banner to add the required material. John Carter (talk) 19:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup

Currently, 1138 articles are assigned to this project, of which 341, or 30.0%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 14 July 2008.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. Subscribing is easy - just add a template to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 18:44, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:Naming conventions (Hebrew) and Mechitza v. Mehitza

Please join a discussion on the following on WT:Naming conventions (Hebrew)

Earlier today, an editor renamed the Mechitza article Mehitza on grounds that the change is required by this naming conventions guideline. Some questions:

  • Is this really a guideline? Did it ever get consensus in the relevant part of a community, or was it labeled a guideline on agreement of a small number of users? I'm not going to change the status without discussion but I'd like to know what the community thinks.
  • Should it be clarified that it doesn't apply to this type of case? The general WP:Naming conventions guideline says to use the term most commonly used in English based on general rather than specialized use. A guideline that imposes a specific standardized transliteration scheme based on specialist opinion resulting in commonly-used words being spelled in unused and possibly unrecognizable ways would seem to go against the spirit of the guideline. The main guideline reflects a philosophy that because article names are the way users look up subjects, they need to reflect the search terms (and spellings) actual users are most likely to employ in their searches. Given this situation, I personally don't think an approach that bases article names on any standardized spelling method not reflecting actual English use is consistent with the overall guideline. Such an approach may be permissable for words that have almost never been spelled in English, but I don't think Misplaced Pages's overall WP:Naming conventions guideline makes it a permissable option for words that have tens of thousands of ghits, regularly appear in English-language newspaper articles, and show other evidence of common use in English. Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 02:38, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:BibleAsFact

I have proposed this template for deletion in accordance with Misplaced Pages's deletion policy. Please see the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Templates for deletion/Log/2008 July 30. Best, --Shirahadasha (talk) 14:25, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The Eternal Jew

The article about the Nazi propaganda movie The Eternal Jew needs some serious work. There is a section about the plot of the movie, which describes in a great amount of detail the entire contents of the movie. However, the way the section has been written it is just echoing the propaganda content of the movie. There are no critiques about the fallacies introduced by the movie. Moreover, the whole section itself is questionable, as I don't think that narrating contents of a documentary movie (regardless of its content) is very encyclopedic. I am sure I've seen somewhere in Misplaced Pages some policy against this practice? --Pinnecco (talk) 01:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

The article looks like it got a lot more slanted after a series of edits by one editor on June 11. I think we can revert to the version prior to that without losing anything valuable. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 04:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
The editor in question has ... issues. I've reverted some of his other edits, but I see Steven has taken care of the others. — ] (] · ]) 04:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Żydokomuna

The Żydokomuna article has issues similar to those identified with The Eternal Jew above. While ostensibly an article about this antisemitic conspiracy theory, the article is dominated by unfocused history sections which simply and generally uncritically present the standard anti-semitic tropes that form the basis of this particularly nasty conspiracy theory. One of many examples include passages such as "Many Jews declared, by their words and deeds, disdain for the Poles and the Polish state, and their loyalty to the Soviet Union. In return, many local Jews were rewarded with positions of authority by the Soviet government." The article is also cluttered with decontextualized statistics on Jewish participation in communist structures which effectively serve as quasi-justifications in this article for the Żydokomuna myth (equivalent to, eg, following the statement "Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany's economic woes" with statistics on Jewish representation in the economic sphere. I began adding some balance to the article, but it seems there is a deeper problem and that simple counterbalancing is not the way to go. Boodlesthecat 19:28, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Responsibility for the Holocaust

Will other editors take a look at Responsibility for the Holocaust, particularly Responsibility for the Holocaust#Romania. A nationalistic editor keeps replacing sourced information about Romania's role in the Holocaust with other material that looks to me like WP:SYNTH and blaming the victim. Thanks. — ] (] · ]) 19:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland after Auschwitz ...

... has been nominated for deletion. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland after Auschwitz. — ] (] · ]) 19:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Help needed to bring Holocaust in Lithuania to GA status

Please see Talk:Holocaust_in_Nazi-occupied_Lithuania#GA_Review. I was able to write the article few months ago, it is close to GA, but now I have less time and I need help if we are to improve this important article (Holocaust started in Lithuania...!).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:05, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages 0.7 articles have been selected for Jewish history

Misplaced Pages 0.7 is a collection of English Misplaced Pages articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Misplaced Pages:Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Misplaced Pages talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Misplaced Pages:Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Misplaced Pages 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 23:10, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

El Lissitzky FA review

The FA status of El Lissitzky is under review. The biggest (the only?) gripe is over sourcing; those here who have access to reliable books covering El Lissitzky are particularly welcome to pitch in. And the input of others is welcome too, of course. -- Hoary (talk) 02:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion

I think it should be made clear in this article that Maurice Joly was a member of a Masonic Lodge and Jewish (thus opening up the possiblity that the Protocols were plagiarized from him). Not sure where to find a reliable source to substantiate this, but it seems highly unlikely that it's completely made up. See this page - http://www.henrymakow.com/maurice_joly_plagiarized_proto.html . I've emailed him to find out the source for Maurica Joly being a mason.

Perhaps we should post a link to that site on the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sparkandstir (talk • contribs) 04:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Sparkandstir, I turned the URL you posted into a live link so others can take a look and see what kind of a site it is. I'll also warn editors not to click on it unless they're ready to be confronted with naked antisemitism at the linked page and bizarre conspiracy theories throughout the site. To be explicit, no, we should not link to that site on that article or any other. To understand why, please read WP:RS --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 06:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
I left a similar note on the contributor's talk page, explaining that it is widely known that the Protocols were plagiarized from Joly. I'm assuming he's confused, as the website and theory he's trying to promote actually claim the Protocols are authentic and that Joly plagiarized them for his Dialogue. Bizarre doesn't begin to describe the conspiracy theories, and honestly, there's nothing worth seeing on that website. AniMate 06:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. I linked to it solely so that other editors can confirm your and my characterization of it. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 18:29, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Polish-Jewish ethnicity in lead

Please see Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Polish-Jewish_ethnicity_in_lead.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:52, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Requesting comment on Gross Aktion

The title of the article Gross Aktion is being disputed by two users - myself (as 74.15.29.56 and 76.64.212.106) and The PiedCow). In short, while we agree that the subject was a grossaktion, it is not known to English-speakers as ‘’the’’ grossaktion. We have suggested “Gross Aktion in the Warsaw Ghetto “and “Grossaktion in Warsaw” as possible alternatives. Poeticbent, the creator of the article, disagrees. The issue is discussed at Talk:Gross Aktion. 76.64.212.106 (talk) 11:45, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Discussion about Holocaust

Our agreement is that Holocaust scholars are speaking about "only" 6 Holocaust Extermination camps (stupid definition but ....). Our disagreement is about creation of sub section other extermination camps. With knowledge that there has been many others extermination camps and sites (I know 7 of them) question is: Will we create subsection in The Holocaust template for this camps ? Can you please hear your comments about this question in section Non involved users ?--Rjecina (talk) 15:22, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

RfC on Template:The Holocaust

Should the Jasenovac concentration camp in Croatia, which operated from 1941-1945, be included in a list of Holocaust extermination camps on Template:The Holocaust. There is agreement that it was an extermination camp, but disagreement as to whether it counts as a death camp that was involved in, or associated with, the Holocaust.

Also, if it is included, should it be added to the section "Jews" or to "other victims," or should there be a new section to include camps such as Jasenovac?

Input would be most appreciated, as the current editors there are deadlocked. Please leave any comment in this section. Many thanks, SlimVirgin 16:44, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

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