Misplaced Pages

Looking at all of this, I was expecting someone to have stolen 40 cakes. And that's terrible.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 05:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

No, what's terrible is that the cakes look like pies. JoshuaZ (talk) 17:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but the cake is a lie Joshua. Wildthing61476 (talk) 18:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

With each passing day I grow more convinced that WPians need more outlets for lighthearted communication and humor. But they seem to find them well enough on their own. ^_^ arimareiji (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

If anyone who was watching this thread is interested, i believe the sock farm is agrowing, and have opened up a request to look int it here ]. Bali ultimate (talk) 22:37, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Disruptive POV-pushing

Lear 21 (talk · contribs) has been pushing for the inclusion of the European Union in the various "List of Countries by ____" articles for some time now. A wide discussion over a year ago (a discussion he participated in) resulted in a consensus that has held steady to the present. Recently, he has edit-warred on List of countries by population and List of countries and outlying territories by total area in contravention of seemingly apparent consensus against his position. He has also canvassed inappropriately (example) to gain support for his position on the latter article. Most recently, he has announced his intention to edit-war on a daily basis to ensure his position is upheld. He has also claimed that I and other editors are a cabal of chauvinist ideologues that is a threat to an encyclopedia...dedicated to inform{ing} humanity. This all smacks of someone on a crusade to "educate" the rest of us, and demonstrates a clear intention to disregard any consensus that disagrees with his own view. This type of disruption is damaging to the encyclopedia and a waste of all of our time. Is it perhaps time for a topic ban? Thanks. Parsecboy (talk) 19:46, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

To clarify further, I am not seeking to get Lear blocked for any of this; I'm sure he is a very helpful contributor in other areas. I think an editing restriction would be a much more effective means to rectify the situation. Parsecboy (talk) 22:19, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Have you considered an RfC on the subject? After one year, established consensus can change. Either way the RfC should either reaffirm the consensus or establish a new one.--Ramdrake (talk) 22:27, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, we did have an RfC on the issue a couple of weeks ago, but there wasn't much of a concrete result (mainly due to lack of participation from uninvolved editors). Parsecboy (talk) 04:08, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I would support a topic ban (as a participant in the dispute), and I don't think a block is necessary. Consensus can change, certainly, but the point is more that Lear clearly doesn't intend to accept any consensus that doesn't go his way - he tells us to "be prepared that this boring discussion will go on every day for the next years" in one of Parsecboy's diffs - so RFC would be a bit useless.

I've found it difficult to AAGF in Lear since he told me I was here to spread hate and ignorance early last month, and the recent discussions (if they can be called that) rather reinforce that view. I, too, was reminded of WP:TRUTH when reading these posts - he uses the word "reality" instead, but the concept is the same. Pfainuk talk 00:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Strongly against blocking - Come on guys, discussions can get quite emotional and hot. For the vast majority of his statements in the long discussion of the EU's entry Lear21 always came up with very valid points. The whole discussion became quite fruitless because of a lack of new arguments and not because of uninvolved editors as stated above. So don't try to find some single incidents that may be caused by some frustration about the fruitless all-over-again discussions to cut him out here, as this would be censorship. - Additionally, I feel obliged to add that it was Pfainuk who opened up this Pandora's box by deleting the EU's entry and violating the standing comprise in the first place. This started the whole mess/discussion and therefore his view in this incident notice can hardly be seen as impartial. Cheers, MikeZ (talk) 09:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll not get into the details of the content dispute here because it's beside the point - though I'll point out that the original edit did not delete the EU from the article (I moved it from one part of the article to another), and that the EU did not have an entry on the list before this discussion started. I will note that I did declare my interest in this at the very beginning of my message - and I note with interest that you, also an involved party, did not.

Discussions can become emotional, sure, that does not justify Lear's personal attacks, nor his apparent intent to force through a change by perpetually edit warring, nor his refusal to AGF (here he told another editor that his comments were "a joke and therefore inexistent"). I'm not arguing for a block, I'm arguing for a topic ban. I think that when an editor all but announces that he's going to continue to edit war against consensus for "years", he needs to stop editing on those articles or be stopped from editing those articles. You say the discussion has got quite emotional - maybe (though apparently only one one side). But that's not an excuse to edit war until you get your way. Pfainuk talk 10:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Any block or topic ban should be based on the real facts. So, he announced he could go to edit war ... so what? Did he actually do it? When did he violate the WP:3RR? ... I think that in both our countries we wouldn't get convicted only on basis of announcing a misdoing - why should we act differently on Misplaced Pages? Cheers, MikeZ (talk) 13:54, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

The point is this: Lear has canvassed in violation of WP:CANVASS. He has attacked other editors. And he has edited in direct contravention of apparent consensus on the talk page; that is disruptive editing in my book. Parsecboy (talk) 13:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, that partially goes for Pfainuk as well, as he has pushed for the removal of the EU's entry from the initial section of the article, in direct violation of the established consensus without creating a new consensus on the talk page first. That's disruptive editing by the same standards. Consensus can change, nobody is saying anything different, but there was no new consensus in the first place. - Having said that, if Lear21 should be topic banned, so should Pfainuk ... and I'm nominating myself as well, as I'm not completely sure that I acted without flaws in all my past edits. - Otherwise, we all could just cool down and forget this whole nonsense. Really. Cheers, MikeZ (talk) 14:27, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I boldly moved the EU from above the list to below it. When I was reverted, I took it to talk. That's actually endorsed by guidelines, not condemned. Pfainuk talk 14:55, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

No, no one is perfect, but that doesn't give Lear an excuse to be disruptive. I think all of us—save Lear—could quite easily drop the issue and leave it as it is. That is exactly the problem; Lear has indicated that he will accept no outcome other than his own version. That unwillingness to compromise is totally unacceptable. Parsecboy (talk) 16:27, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

User Lear 21 has tried to uphold an article´s version which has been thoroughly discussed over several years including many editors and ended in a stable compromise version which lasted for more than year. User:Parsecboy and others have been involved in these previous discussions and now deny to stick to the compromise version. In this light user Lear 21 has come forward with a new proposal citing several external expert sources. As these credible sources (among them the CIA World Factbook) are constantly denied user Lear 21 took the freedom to insist on the acceptance of these sources. User Lear 21 has given credit to one of the basic principles of Misplaced Pages while conducting an argumentation based on multiple facts and high-profiled references. Lear 21 (talk) 15:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

For the record, Lear has mischaracterized my position in regards to the article; my only comments have been in support of maintaining the long-standing consensus version and towards attempts to keep the discussion on track and within policies (i.e., no edit-warring, canvassing issues, etc.). As far as I know, Polaron is the only other editor (with Lear and me) who participated in the old discussions, and he too (I believe) favors retaining the old-consensus version.

None of that really has any bearing on this discussion though. We are talking about the disruptive actions Lear has been doing over the past weeks. He has posted biased notices on the talk pages of those he believes will support him in an attempt to votestack (example diff provided above), he has edit-warred with other editors, and has more or less announced his intention to continue to edit-war. He has also attacked other editors who disagree with him. In my opinion, Lear 21 clearly needs to stop editing in an area that he has obviously made a personal issue; if he will not agree to do that of his own volition, then we need to make that decision for him. Parsecboy (talk) 16:43, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

User Lear 21 insists to either recognize external expert sources and the methodology of more than 20 sister Wiki languages OR to stick to longterm stable version which was backed by more than 10 editors over the last 3 years. User Lear 21 has not announced to start an edit war ! Quote "This will be a very long boring discussion in the next month, I promise." Instead user Parsecboy (initiator of this notice) and user Polaron have not intervened the breaching of a longstanding compromise version although both have been part of it a year ago. User Parsecboy is only willing to give incorrect and biased summaries of the discussions in order to get rid of an unwanted participant but established Misplaced Pages editor Lear 21. I have no doubt that this behaviour stands in a stark contradiction with guidelines issued for administrators. Lear 21 (talk) 20:55, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

We do not follow what other Wikis do, we are our own project; what fr.wiki or de.wiki do is totally irrelevant. Moreover, this discussion here is not over any content; it's about your poor behavior on both the articles and their talk pages.

As for whether or not you literally said you intended to edit war, "I will be a frequent editor at this list from now on to ensure that credible sources are acknowledged. On a daily basis." seems to be pretty clear in its meaning to me. I have made 1 edit each to both of the articles in question; I have no intention of fueling any edit-warring by adding to the reverts. Note this edit summary, where I chastised both edit-warring parties to stop reverting each other. Where exactly have I made incorrect or biased summaries? You have canvassed in violation of WP:CANVASS, attacked other editors, and edited in a disruptive manner. That you have not refuted any of these is telling. Parsecboy (talk) 22:26, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Strongly against blocking too

It's sort of intellectual dishonesty to quote people out of context. If interested, people can judge by themselve how does Lear can progressively come to such behavior. I can witness that the communication with two wikipedians on this article, namely BritishWatcher and Pfainuk, appear to be impossible as long as we don't follow their POV. They seem to fail to understand the aim of making medium proposals when there is strong POV dispute, they seem to fail aswell to understand that their POV are not worth more than others, they are infringing the 2nd pillar of WP and yet reminding others about WP rules.

For what I have seen, they are pushing -consciously or not- to avoid reaching a consensus that could not satisfy them at least at 90%. That's not called trying to reach a medium equilibrium between parties, and that's not an encyclopaedian spirit, a WP spirit even less.

So, when facing such behavior, when you keep explaining that 1+1=2 and you keep being answered that 1+1=3 for more than a month, I can understand that people can lose patience. Some here judge that Lear has been disruptive, he's probably not perfect in his behavior, but maybe those who launch such accusations should take a look in the mirror too and get a perspective.

I personally stopped fighting this, as such closed and rigid mind is out of my understanding. I'm trying my best to assume good faith and accept something that please everyone, but I have to admit that in the present case, it's hard. Rules, conservatism and own POV should never overlay common sense, wide view, flexibility, honesty, self-questioning, logic and deductive mind.

I, too, could ask for something that suit me better, but I'm trying not to overweight my requests to allow different POV to be displayed, as I'm constantly trying to follow the spirit of Voltaire ("I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"), but I have limits, like everyone else, including Lear. Orravan (talk) 07:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm wondering if you're reading the same discussions I am. Barely a week into the current discussion, Lear was already attacking Britishwatcher and Pfainuk: I congratulate BritishWatcher and Pfainuk being a stereotypical, aggressive anti-European deletionists at Misplaced Pages like many others before, be proud of it. But please spare your hate and ignorance for the tabloid sections in your country without spreading it here in an encyclopedia. Nothing taken out of context; two whole sentences, linked to the post he made. Note that it was the second post he made to the discussion. This does not seem like someone who has tried for weeks to circumvent WP:ICANTHEARYOU type behavior, and finally losing patience. Parsecboy (talk) 13:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Barely a week into the discussion, it seems that Lear was also facing anew a behavior he fought several times in the past. There is something else Lear wrote, just above the part you've chosen to paste, which help to put the quote into perspective : "Since my first edits about these issues the only editors who constantly delete, diminish and vandalize EU related content come from one country, the UK. I have met or read about more than 50 of them during the last 3 years. These editors display almost no EU related knowledge and still feel being able to judge the issues."

It's indeed a personnal POV and we agree that it definitely does not allow someone to be rude. Now for my opinion : I don't consider him to have been rude, just being tired of what could be considered as vandalism in others situations, tired of what he saw several times and saw once again when Pfainuk and BW started to argue exactly the way 50 persons did before, with the same flaws and yet the same extreme self-confidence. Early into the discussion, I felt really uncomfortable myself about the way they were eluding some basic rationales and facts, like if they wanted to prove that their POV were better or something, while WP is about neutral knowledge, and not partisan choices. There can't be consensus nor agreement without fair equilibrium. Orravan (talk) 23:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

SPA drama on Jewish-related AfD

OK, Ignatz Lichtenstein was a rabbi who was controversial in various ways. The AfD was started by and is being peppered with SPAs;

• Joseph3333 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Jacob Cohen 1977 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• JewishTeen111 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• ParisYid (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I'm not sure what the best course here is but maybe a rummage through the sock drawer? Also, user name ParisYid seems likely in violation. -- Banjeboi 15:59, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why ParisYid would be in violation of the username policies. However, these do look like socks. Note for example that all three of the first few are of the form NameNumber. Also the second account in question responded on a talk page to a comment I made to the first account. JoshuaZ (talk) 16:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

You should probably add Texas Muslimah (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to the list... it's another SPA who just joined in on the discussion. caknuck _° resolves to be more caknuck-y 17:00, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Joseph3333, Has been started. -- Banjeboi 02:38, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• Comment. The Afd seems to be hovering at snow keep at this point. Could an uninvolved party consider closing? -- Banjeboi 11:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• Closed, as a speedy keep (As far as I can tell, a speedy keep of a bad faith nomination helped along by clear socking is within the bounds of what is allowed by WP:NAC. Mayalld (talk) 11:42, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! -- Banjeboi 01:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• Comment The sockmaster was confirmed and blocked in this matter. -- Banjeboi 01:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Handing off

LirazSiri (talk · contribs) is, by admission, the co-founder of a software project, TurnKey Linux (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). The article Liraz wrote on this project was deleted as promotion (WP:CSD#G11). It was reposted, again by Liraz, with the addition of a couple of trivial non-independent sources (the Ubuntu community wiki newsletter). This has now been to WP:DRV, my talk page and WP:VPP. Liraz is convinced the deletion means we are an evil deletionist cabal. Liraz also believes that my statement that continuing to argue the toss over content you write about your own projects can lead to blocking, amounts to "suppression". Rfwoolf (talk · contribs), who has a long-standing grudge against me personally, chose to try to "help", and in the end Liraz appears to be interpreting everything xe doesn't want to hear according to WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and to interpret everything which is even slightly pleasant as support for the crusade to have the article. Liraz' judgment that the original deleting admin was an abusive bully has now been transferred to me and amplified, and I am now "suppressive" a "bully" and "censoring" stuff. So I am walking away. Guy (Help!) 13:03, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

It reads like an advertisement, and the belligerence displayed by its author is typical of self-promoters. Baseball Bugs 13:54, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Strongly agree. Guy has been, in my view, reasonable in his dealings with LirazSiri, who apparently feels that there have been personal attacks and harassment occurring, none of which I've been able to spot in their dealings. Rfwoolf has a long and problematic history with Guy, was not involved in the discussion, and then threw an attack in out of nowhere. There is also a lengthy discussion on the Policy pump that is horribly misplaced as it's turned into an argument over the admin activities. While the deletion may have been a borderline decision at the start (I may have AFD'd the article, for example, while others would speedy it), the entire situation is now spiralling into a brawl. Definitely needs more eyes (besides mine, as I'm a cranky bastard with too many deadlines this week and next and the block button is getting bigger and shining red as I go along). Tony Fox (arf!) 17:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree with both of you... but... assuming the best, this seems to me to be an editor who wishes to create an article about a product that (IMHO) is notable enough to deserve an article (the article's subject isn't "just another Linux distribution", as I first thought, and seems to have at least one quite innovative feature). The editor, as a newbie, failed to establish notability and ran up against WP:COI. Their close relationship with the article's subject made them defensive, and that in turn led to problems working with other edtors and admins. Despite my previous belief (struck-thru', below) that we could possibly mark this as resolve, I believe the editor is still railing against other editors (a situation that is, to some degree, being encouraged). In particular the editor is reluctant to create the article in userspace. Would it be possible for an admin to (a) offer some degree of protection to the editor's userspace, and (b) possibly offer mentoring (the mentoring wouldn't necessarily need to come from an admin; I'd be prepared to mentor, for example). I think some degree of strong message to the editor is necessary, but not one that closes all doors. As I said back-a-ways I do believe that this subject is notable, and that a decent article could emerge. Cheers, This flag once was red_deeds 10:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Per this edit it sounds like the editor is stepping back too. Various editors have left advice should LirazSiri (talk · contribs) choose to re-create the article. Mark this as resolved?

Cheers, This flag once was red_deeds 17:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Striking; I'm not convinced that the editor has stepped back. This flag once was red_deeds 10:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't really know what you mean by railing against other editors, but I feel your original assessment on stepping back from the article is true. Perhaps if I truly had something to gain personally by continuing to pursue this I would be more motivated to continue fighting for the article's inclusions and the basis for its notability but I've discovered an ugly side of Misplaced Pages that has discouraged me from further engaging myself in this dispute. I created the article in the image of the other articles on Ubuntu derivatives covered in Misplaced Pages. In this form it existed for months without any objections being raised. Sure there was room for improvement, there always is. Perhaps as you mention the article didn't emphasize the notable aspects of the project it described sufficiently. I would have welcomed friendly collaboration with other editors to improve the article (or any feedback really). Unfortunately, instead of a peaceful discussion that would have perhaps led to the necessary improvements, I suddenly found myself thrust into a battlefield, with much of the fire directed against me personally. Naturally I got defensive. I didn't sign up for all this drama and though I find Misplaced Pages's community and culture fascinating I really do have better things to do with my time than fend off these attacks. Now that I know how quickly things can turn into a battlefield just as soon as you attract the wrong kind of attention, I'll come back only after I believe my position is strong enough to convince even the likes of Guy, other die-hard deletionists and the blue wall of allies that would otherwise gang up on me and accuse me of having bad faith, abusing Misplaced Pages by advertising "yet another non-notable Ubuntu fork" on Misplaced Pages (in order to promote myself of course), while acting in conflict of interest. I don't know why they singled TurnKey Linux out as it is more notable than any of the other unofficial Ubuntu derivatives that have articles. I have my suspicions. It's a free software project that is giving away software appliances that other proprietary vendors are charging a hefty ransom for. I can't prove anything though, and there's the old adage that you should never attribute to malice what can attributed to simple incompetence. It doesn't matter though. An article on Misplaced Pages matters little in the grand scheme of things. LirazSiri (talk) 23:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be helpful if an outside person had a sit down with Rfwoolf about his/her "help"? AnyPerson (talk) 00:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

"Help" indeed. This minor skirmish reminds me of the battle royale that occurred last summer over someone else's pet computer language, something called MKR. Baseball Bugs 01:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Not being an admin I don't have access to the delete logs (or I do and I'm too stupid to know it), but what was the reason given for deleting the userspace article? And what does this say about using userspace to clean-up articles? If we can't collect our thoughts and improve an article we're just supposed to get it perfect the first shot out of the box? That doesn't seem right. Padillah (talk) 12:57, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Nancy Cartwright

Jayen466 18:58, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Nancy Cartwright, the voice of Bart Simpson, has been in the news these last few days over a robocall recording in which she jokingly used Bart's voice. According to both the Times and Fox News , the robocall went out to Scientologists, inviting them to a Scientology event in Hollywood. (The robocall message used Scientology jargon, making it quite clear in my mind that the recipients were Scientologists.)

Our article on Nancy Cartwright (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) made no mention of the fact that the robocalls were sent to Scientologists, creating the impression that they went to members of the general public. Scorpion0422 (talk · contribs) has three times reverted a sourced addition to the article which follows coverage in reliable sources (i.e. Times and Fox News and others) in reporting that the robocall message went out to Scientologists.

• Edit summary: rv Some PR edits
• Edit summary: rv. Get a source that says definitively that only Scientologists received the message. The previous version was more neutral.

I've asked Scorpion to self-revert, which s/he has failed to do. I don't want to edit-war over this, but I don't want readers to worry that their 12-year-old children will be called by Bart on their cell-phones and be told to attend Scientology events, because that quite clearly isn't what happened here. Note also that this is a BLP. Jayen466 16:01, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow, 10 minutes of correspondance and you're already going to ANI. I had a class I had to go to, pardon me for giving my real life precedence over wiki life. All it says is "she used Bart's voice in an automated telephone message promoting a Scientology event in Hollywood." The way you are reacting, you would think it says "she called and annoyed thousands" or something along those lines. Neither of the sources you quoted are clear and I just think you need one that definitevely says it. -- Scorpion 16:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry, we have two very good, first-class sources saying the calls invited Scientologists to the event. There is no good reason to withhold that information, and there is no good reason to edit-war over the inclusion of material sourced to the Times and Fox News that is uncontradicted. Jayen466 16:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Like I said at Talk:Nancy Cartwright, there are two ways you could interpret it. 1) The message was to everyone but she was speaking only to Scientologists (which is how I'm interpreting it) 2) The message was sent only to Scientologists. -- Scorpion 16:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

that is what Scientologists were led to believe this week when they received an automated telephone message featuring the voice of Bart inviting them to the Scientology Flag World Tour, an event being held in Hollywood tomorrow.

her voice message urging Scientologists, in Bart's voice, to attend an upcoming conference.

I would like to add this reliably sourced information to the article. Jayen466 16:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

This appears to be a content dispute not requiring Admin intervention; I suggest parties take it up on the talk page and thereafter Dispute resolution if you can't negotiate a consensus. --Rodhullandemu 16:45, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Jayen466 is using scare tactics. I told him I didn't want to make a big deal of this and he immediately adds it to ANI and the Scientology ArbCom case. He's just trying to make me say "bah, it's not worth it" and give up. -- Scorpion 16:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Scorpion, you have reverted the addition of this three times now. If you don't want to make a big deal out of it, don't edit-war. Jayen466 17:15, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

So you're saying every minor content dispute should be taken to ANI and ARBCOM? -- Scorpion 18:01, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I hate to say this but this doesn't belong here, it's a content dispute. Padillah (talk) 18:07, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• I don't hate to say this (respects to Padillah): it's a content dispute. Am I missing something? Aren't Scientologists part of the general public - it's not like they're holed up in some caves or cloistered in monasteries or convents. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
  • Don't be too sure about that. Tom Cruise and John Travolta, for example, are well-known for being shy and retiring recluses. One thing that's unclear from the citations is whether it was only scientologists who got this call. However, it doesn't sound very important either way. Content dispute. Baseball Bugs 01:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Ericthebrainiac

Ericthebrainiac (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) was last discussed here in May of last year (Archive 417, Archive 423). He is an editor fixated on telenovelas, which is fine, and specifically his own ideas for telenovelas, which is where he runs into trouble. What valid contributions he makes are always unsourced and frequently rely on a translation from Spanish, which hinders fact-checking. Unfortunately, the rest of his contributions make me believe that fact-checking his stuff is essential.

I'm most concerned, though, by this message that he left on my talk page this morning: Eric not only fails to understand that stuff he made up one day isn't suitable for Misplaced Pages but seems to think that it's a moral imperative that he do so (and seems to use a fictional story to justify the same). He followed this up by posting his stuff to Requested Articles. I've warned him repeatedly that our patience for this sort of behavior is limited, but that's clearly not making an impact.

As a result, I think it's time that (should consensus warrant) he be told, in no uncertain terms, that his chances are up, and that any further mention of his soap operas, fictional cities, or whatever else in that category, will result in an indefinite block. And now, I'm off to notify him of this thread. — Lomn 16:47, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow. Having looked through his contributions and, most tellingly, the sheer volume of warnings on his talk page, am inclined to hand out an indef block. Anyone else have any views? _Gb 16:58, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

He's either a kook, or someone pretending to be a kook. (I know, namecalling isn't nice, but I can't think of a better word to describe this behavior.) I would concur with a indefinite block at any time for reasons of exhausting community patience and/or no useful contribs. He's had a good while to learn what Misplaced Pages is about, and shows no signs of getting it. Friday (talk) 16:59, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Fully support this. He's infamous for asking nonsensical questions on the reference desks and will sometimes ask the same question over and over even when he's been given a sufficient answer. The fact that he's still creating articles about his made-up soap operas shows he's clearly bad for the site. It seems like every time he gets into trouble, he'll make a bunch of good edits right away to try and balance out the bad. I'd say 3.5 years on the site is more than enough to understand policy. --Ouzo (talk) 17:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Support indef block. As Ouzo says he should have got a basic grasp of policy by now. Ironholds (talk) 18:13, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

This has been going on for the better part of a year, with no apparent change in approach. Baseball Bugs 18:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Based on my review of the previous ANI discussions, his talk page, his recent edits, and the developing consensus above, I am going to block him indefinitely for long-term disruption (assuming no one else does it while I'm typing this). Enough final warnings, enough second chances. I hesitate to guess how many hours of other peoples' time has been taken up dealing with this user. --barneca (talk) 19:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Very appropriate block. His plea that he should be allowed to use wikipedia for publishing his own ideas, clearly indicates he either doesn't get it or doesn't care. And either way - blockeroony. Baseball Bugs 00:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Mentor for newly unbanned editor

User:Rms125a@hotmail.com has recently been unbanned following a discussion here on ANI. Now that he has been unblocked, per the terms of his unblock, he needs a community-appointed mentor to help him through the early stages. Although he has been dealing with unfortunate IRL stuff and is unable to contribute at this time, I nevertheless wanted to put this to the community now. Is there an experienced editor who would like to volunteer for the position, or do you know someone who would fit the bill? Experience in Troubles-related disputes could help but isn't necessary. Volunteer and/or nominate away! ~Eliz81 17:38, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I assume you mean Rms125a@hotmail.com? swaq 18:01, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Pardon my improper capitalization. Fixed. And yes, him. Any ideas? ~Eliz81 18:12, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Don't care about that, but is there a name change condition somewhere in the unblock agreement? Aren't there technical problems with @ signs in names now? --B (talk) 19:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Only if an administrator was to grant rollback, IPBE, etc. The software doesn't like @ in Special:Userrights. -MBK₀₀₄ 22:04, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I am willing to be a mentor. I would recommend that someone else agree to be an alternate or assistant mentor. My qualifications are that I am neutral regarding the Troubles, I have been certified as not being a RMS sock (see http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk%3ADurova&diff=267423818&oldid=267422659 ) and I have a genuine desire to help any and all Wikipedians. Chergles (talk) 21:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately I'm not available to take on more mentorships at this time. Durova 22:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for volunteering, Chergles. Anyone else want to step up and co-mentor? ~Eliz81 03:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Betacommand ban evasion: User:Ringkjøbing

Checkuser indicates that the account User:Ringkjøbing is operated by User:Betacommand. --Deskana (talk) 18:00, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Can you not block him for reasons of conflict of interest? Magog the Ogre (talk) 18:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Every single edit to make the same minor change to a bunch of random pages? Who'da thunk it? – iridescent 18:03, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

If it's a banned user, conflict of interest doesn't matter. Secret 18:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

The account's been tagged as indefblocked, but not actually blocked as yet. Can someone block him? Algebraist 18:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

 Done –xeno (talk) 18:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Back last spring or summer, in one of the many discussions about this guy, someone warned there was no point in blocking him because he was astute enough to get around it anyway. I wonder if these sockpuppets are all he's doing, or if that's just the tip of the iceberg? Baseball Bugs 18:42, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

It's a good reason to nip problem users in the bud, rather than letting them build up a serious addiction. If he'd been handled properly years ago, we wouldn't be in this situation. Friday (talk) 18:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

That would be like not locking your door because a burglar can just break the window. –xeno (talk) 18:56, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Well ... no. Betacommand was running bots on his admin account for a long time. Many of us (I am among them) were more than willing to look the other way because we agreed with the outcome of what he was doing. That is our failing (I count myself among that when I say our) and we should have enforced the rules that were there. --B (talk) 19:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

As someone who took a fair amount of stick (from a wide selection of admins) for raising concerns about some of BC's problematic behaviours in the past, it is gratifying to see that there are at least a few admins willing to admit that things could have been handled better. DuncanHill (talk) 22:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I have a few things to say.

• I got criticism on IRC for not blocking the account myself. Checkusers are duty-bound to report what they find with the tool. I didn't want to block him because I happen to like him. That has nothing to do with checkuser. I did my duty as a checkuser. If I don't want to block an account, I don't have to. No administrator does. If you think that's condoning ban evasion, it's not. Not saying anything about the account would be condoning ban evasion.
• I also got criticism on IRC for not keeping this secret. To those people I have one word, and that word is "No". By suggesting I have the power to decide whether or not I keep things secret or not, you are also suggesting that checkusers have the political power to decide when the community is wrong and overrule them on their decisions. They don't. I reject the idea of checkusers having such power.

If people have a problem with what I've said above, then ask me to resign my checkuser ability on my talk page, because what I've said above is not changing no matter what anyone says to me. --Deskana (talk) 19:15, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I have no problems with your actions... I was initially confused as to why you didn't perform the block yourself, but I didn't feel the need to press the issue... Oh, and keep off IRC, it'll melt your brain =) –xeno (talk) 19:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Criticism for not blocking? That's silly. Providing the information and letting someone else evaluate your results and decide whether or not to block is exactly appropriate, especially since you have personal feelings about the issue. I've been in similar positions myself, and it's much easier and fairer to let a third party with no druthers one way or another wield the knife. I've no idea what you were supposed to keep secret; it's hardly news that Betacommand has used socks in the past -- and as such, will regularly be checked for continuing similar behavior. Oh, and, keep off IRC, it'll melt your brain. --jpgordon 19:27, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. We are volunteers. Someone will carry out a block you do not do. No issue here. ++Lar: t/c 19:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely. Especially when there may be personal connections (pro or con) with the target, it is absolutely proper to want a third party to implement any blocks. -- Avi (talk) 20:26, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

(e/c with Xeno who I think says the same thing) Simple solution: don't listen to people on IRC. I'd endorse pretty much everything you just did and said. --barneca (talk) 19:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Your actions were 100% correct. Ignore anything said on IRC, problem solved. --B (talk) 19:28, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

This just makes me that much happier that I have no involvement with IRC because it's apparently full of people who don't know what they're talking about. -Chunky Rice (talk) 19:29, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

If by "people who don't know what they're talking about" you mean a good chuck of ArbCom, almost every ArbCom clerk, half the active CheckUsers, the entire WMF technical staff and most MW developers... I could keep going but you clearly don't know what you're talking about. BJ 20:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

People we can ignore, correct? seicer | talk | contribs 21:01, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

If people have issues, they should raise them publicly on wiki.

Deskana's actions here are not only permissible—they represent our very best practices. It's absurd that someone should be scolded for declining to make themselves judge, jury, and executioner, and it's equally absurd to suggest that Deskana ignore the community. By presenting the facts here, the community (the actual editing community—not the subsection of voices on IRC) could make an informed decision. Good job. Cool Hand Luke 21:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Good call, Dan. You did the right thing. --ROGER DAVIES  19:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Having extra eyes look over actions is always good - I have seen other checkusers await admins to act upon their findings. It does make a nice check-and-balance. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:41, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, though in this case, since the CU was the only thing identifying Betacommand (there's nothing behavioural as far as I can see), it would've been impossible for a non-CU admin to actually confirm. Black Kite 20:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Just add me to the list of people saying "Deskana, you're doing it right." Your approach is reasonable and ethical. Anyone criticizing you for this doesn't know what the hell they're talking about and can be safely ignored. Friday (talk) 20:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• Since I don't go on IRC (I am told I need to have a brain, for it to be melted) I don't know which people were criticising Deskana for advising the community that BC is again violating WP policy and consensus; I suppose these same people would then have no problem with me abusing my sysop flags by executing short blocks on those accounts as encouraging a banned user to evade the consequences of policy violation? Lucky old us that I hold IRC in such contempt. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree with all of the above. --Kbdank71 21:48, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

"zomg I hate IRC." Shut up. To hate a medium of communication is not one of the dumbest things I've seen on this site, but it certainly makes the list. As others have pointed out, the Wikimedia technical staff, a good chunk of ArbCom, and hundreds (if not thousands) of Wikimedia users use IRC every day. And to Seicer's "People we can ignore, correct?" Um, no. Some of them are some of the brightest people we have on the site. Others are directly in charge of saying what is and is not appropriate for technical matters. Though I'm starting to think MediaWiki needs an ignore option if people are going to make such inane comments on pages like this.

As to Deskana's post, as Thatcher and others have pointed out, ArbCom regularly ignores CheckUser results (or manipulates them) in the interest of politics (wiki and otherwise). To act as though there's a duty to report every finding that they make, while noble, is complete nonsense when it's compared with the reality of how these things actually operate. (Peter Damian being a prime example in my mind.)

The point that I brought up on IRC regarding this was that Deskana seems to have not blocked not because of a friendship, but because he couldn't bring himself to block a non-disruptive account. That's my take.

We need to get back to basing users and accounts on their contributions and little else. As I said on IRC (quick, get the pitchforks!), if I were to create an account and edit like MascotGuy and be blocked a sock of him, that doesn't make me MascotGuy. It just means that the behavior of the account was similar to behavior that we've (rightfully) determined is inappropriate for this project. Try as we might to ban people, we will only ever be effective at banning behaviors and actions.

I would appreciate it if people diverted their time and attention from attacking a very old medium to instead figuring out a way to do away with this noticeboard. It's a plague on the project. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:12, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

As someone once said to me.. "Could you assume any more bad faith here?" SirFozzie (talk) 22:26, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Which is worse, attacking a medium, or attacking people? You're right about one thing: we do need an ignore option. --Kbdank71 00:40, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Ah, yes, MZMcBride - the admin who undid the consensus derived protection of the Sarah Palin article after a quick chat at IRC, and got brought up before ArbCom for it... Perhaps my disdain for the channel is simply coloured by the closed shop superiority inclined drama mongers who are part of the population there rather than the medium itself. Speaking of which, is the transparency of the admin noticeboards (open to all to view and most - not just admins, luckily - to post) not to your taste? LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Whoever was doing the criticising on IRC ought to have the balls and the honesty to say it here, where the community can comment. DuncanHill (talk) 22:29, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

MZMcBride did say I could mention his name here, and has commented here himself, so at least he's not hiding away from what he said. That is more than can be said for a lot of people. --Deskana (talk) 22:50, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Such a serious accusation of malfeasance as ArbCom regularly ignores CheckUser results (or manipulates them) in the interest of politics (wiki and otherwise) really ought not to be asserted without substantiation. A year and a half ago Kelly Martin claimed to have been pressured into giving a specific checkuser result regarding Poetlister. Nobody confirmed Kelly's version of events and Poetlister was eventually caught with three admin socks on a sister project. That was one master manipulator who cajoled a spurious claim, period. Any other examples, MZ? Substantiated examples? If you've got 'em, provide diffs and I'll open a second RFC on ArbCom. Otherwise please withdraw the accusation. Durova 22:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

It's a fair point, though. This is unrelated to the Beta sock mentioned above, but there are probably quite a few accounts out there that are editing 100% productively, but that are socks of banned editors. Put yourself in the shoes of member of ArbCom X who accidentaly picks up one of those during an "unrelated" checkuser; what do you do? Do you indef the account, despite - in some cases - a long history of good edits (provoking ZOMG drama when the block is noticed), or do you just ignore it and keep an eye on the account in case it goes rogue again? I know which course I'd pursue. Black Kite 23:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Not really. The Wikimedia Foundation runs 650 wikis, about a dozen of which are in English or Simple English. So banned users who wish to demonstrate their ability to edit productively and abide by wiki norms have plenty of opportunities to do so. The key difference between whether an individual gets banned has more to do with whether they're willing to curb problematic behaviors in accordance with norms. Every editor sometimes ends up on the short end of a consensus. Most of us accept that; a few don't. And ban evasion is fundamentally a refusal to accept that part of the social contract. Durova 23:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, English Misplaced Pages gets a fair amount of stick from other projects for dumping their problem users elsewhere. Simple English Misplaced Pages in particular has expressed concerns. There is little in common with the other projects except language. Several of these projects also have some very odd practices that aren't acceptable on Misplaced Pages, either: Commons doesn't have any policy comparable to BLP, Wikiquote's interpretation of copyright is not in line with this project's, and Wiktionary's sourcing policies are not at all like ours. Wikiversity too has had serious problems with some of our banned users. Risker (talk) 00:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Which is a good reason why actually mentoring them on those other projects is a good idea too. As an admin on three of those sister projects, what I hear from my colleagues goes two ways: partly what you're saying, Risker. But also that they're glad to get people and often find people blossom in a smaller and mellower environment. Durova 00:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I was being sarcastic on the whole IRC bit. I was a former IRC user myself until recently. seicer | talk | contribs 01:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Reporting the checkuser result, and allowing another admin to do the block, was an excellent call. Baseball Bugs 00:57, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Per followup by MZMcBride I have opened a request for comment on the checkuser policy. Wikipedia_talk:CheckUser#Request_for_comment. Durova 01:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

201.19.218.49

See the comments made at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Carlos nemer by 201.19.218.49 (talk · contribs) and in particular the diffs , , , , and another one from another IP but apparently from the same server . The users (it appears to be multiple users using the same IP) are engaging in what seems to be disruptive editing not limited to refactoring others' comments, soapboxery, and making personal attacks. I haven't seen a situation like this before with several people commenting from the same IP, so I'm not quite sure what is going on, so I'm bringing it here. MuZemike 20:21, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• I think the anonymous IPs 201.19.174.237 (talk · contribs) and 201.19.212.234 (talk · contribs) should be added to this incident. --Crusio (talk) 23:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
  • And 201.19.96.129 (talk · contribs). What's funny is that all these IPs are also editing each others' comments, for which I've left vandalism warnings on their talk pages. Thinking about it some more, I don't think all of this is so funny anymore. Drmies (talk) 02:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

See also Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Request block review, a couple sections up, re 201.19.174.239 (talk · contribs). —David Eppstein (talk) 02:55, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Wall?

I have no idea what's going on between them, but Foxcow (talk · contribs), David the Dogman (talk · contribs) et al. (see their talkpages for some more "participants") seem to be doing some networking via Misplaced Pages relating to something to do with Wall. (Your guess is as good as mine.) Thoughts?  GARDEN  21:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Are attempts to use Misplaced Pages for social networking growing? This is the 3rd incident I've seen in the last month. Indef blocks? That's what I did last time after a warning. dougweller (talk) 21:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

The b-man had some interaction with one of these folks, maybe he can lend some insight here... –xeno (talk) 21:34, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't know much about them---I blocked one of them for making legal threats and then again for block evasion, but have since come to the conclusion that the person I blocked might be part of this cliche. I suspect that they are all a group of HS friends/buddies. Beyond that, I can't really add much.---I'm Spartacus! 23:02, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

(EC with Xeno)We apparently have several bored schoolchildren in Florida, who are using Misplaced Pages as a substitute for social networking sites which are blocked by the FCAT explorer software (or the school's IT people have installed a similar filter). I'd suggest nuking the user talk pages, and directing them to any of a number of social networking sites, all of which should be accessible from their computers at home. Since Balloonman has changed his name, I suspect that would confuse the kids. Horologium (talk) 21:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I've deleted the talkpages that were pure vandalism/testing/advertising/whatever and blanked the others, leaving a friendly message on each. Might be worth noting that someone created Ihatefoxcow (talk · contribs) and at least one other account to attack these users.  GARDEN  22:15, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

"wall" is a reference to Facebook, with the "wall" being the place that you post comments, see what the person is doing, etc. Misplaced Pages is not Facebook (WP:FACEBOOK not withstanding). Users that are here solely to socialize should be told to contribute to the project as a first and final warning; if they don't get that, they should be forcibly shown the door.
For the record, I'm all for friendly chit-chat; however, such chit-chat should come secondary to positive contributions (either mainspace edits or project-level edits). EVula // talk // ☯ // 22:28, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Oh! God, I'm so out of touch. Which might be odd considering the stereotype for my age group. Okay, your idea seems strict but fair.  GARDEN  10:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I realize your points and will start making positive contributions like I did to Page (servant) and Squire and I will use all I know to help the articles. David the Dogman (talk) 19:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Also want to now why you deleted my only copy of the book of wall. we worked hard on that. David the Dogman (talk) 19:56, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Since I have nothing better to do I will tell you guys everything. I created a account. I then told David the Dogman who created Rangersarecool. We after a bit both got blocked I was able to get unblocked while David created several other accounts. Now he has David the dogman. We created a fake religion, called Church of Wall. He put it on my talk page and his. I didn't know about the no chats like myspace and stuff like that rule. Sorry.--Foxcow (talk) 20:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Refusal to comply with WP:SIG

I'm not sure how to deal with this, because blocking seems to be rather extreme, but it's frustrating dealing with an editor who refuses to comply with a behavioral guideline. User talk:Ottre (userpage is a redlink) has customized his signature to eliminate any links (to his userpage, his user talk page, or even his special:contributions page). I first contacted him on January 21st on his userpage (diff) asking him to change his signature to conform to WP:SIG. He never responded to me, but when it was raised on another talk page, he dismissed it, stating that he "didn't abide by policy on linking signatures". (diff) Meanwhile, when he left another comment on a talkpage that is on my watchlist, and I followed up on my original message, he responded on my talk page "I saw your first message. I am not fixing my signature, as it encourages contact with editors who follow WP:V—contact I would rather avoid." (which was left with only a timestamp, no user name whatsover).(diff) Does anyone have a suggestion on how to resolve this situation? Horologium (talk) 22:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Ignore it for goodness' sake. Bishonen | talk 22:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC).

↑What Bish said. Is there really nothing worse going on to worry about? – iridescent 22:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

OK. I'll ignore behavioral guidelines. Should I ignore all of them, or only certain ones? Horologium (talk) 23:07, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Just the ones that, when ignored, don't actually harm the project. EVula // talk // ☯ // 23:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

(e/c)Only certain ones. Knowing which ones to ignore is part of the IAR final exam. --barneca (talk) 23:11, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I *did* say that I tended to be more EGOUR than rouge. I've invoked IAR only twice since confirmation, although I have been tempted on a few more occasions. However, it's a bit frustrating to have to pull up the talk page history to leave a message with a user who doesn't have his sig linked, which is what originally prompted me to address the issue. The page in question (the one on my watchlist) is under article probation, so it's a little more than just rule-wankery or nannyism. Horologium (talk) 23:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I thought that it was going to be something stupid like a excessively bolded names, but I would say a sig with no identification is bordering on disruption, and pointy disruption at that, considering he apparently wants to "avoid" those who follow policy. There's no reason to invoke IAR for this; it's not improving the wiki; I say we give him the chance to fix it or block. Simple as that. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 23:23, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

It's certainly inconsiderate. If he didn't sign his name at all, I'd be more inclined to make a big deal of it. But if the signature includes his unlinked username (I believe User:Doku does something similar), you don't need to go into the history, it's just the extra effort of cutting and pasting. That's not really a sig with no identification. I suggest just muttering under your breath about his lack of consideration for other people, and leave it at that. Now, if he's being disruptive in other ways, this would be one more log on the bonfire. But I wouldn't act on that issue alone, if there was nothing else. also, I don't understand why he's worried about editors who follow WP:Verifiability? :) --barneca (talk) 23:26, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

It's User:Docu who used to do that (and still does: ); and similarly drew complaints. Baseball Bugs 00:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Echoing EVula, while having a non-WP:SIG compliant signature is annoying, annoying ≠ disruption. --Kralizec! (talk) 23:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Comment: I've made thousands of edits without any major problems so far. Is it a wank that I think WP:V is a trademark, which should be replaced by freely-created American, Australian, British, Canadian and South African versions of WP:RS? I know thousands of editors share this view, and do things like deliberately red-linking to their (deleted) userpages, so it can't be that disruptive. 23:28, 5 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ottre (talk • contribs)

(as an addon to my previous post) That said (for whatever reason my browser didn't want more text, sorry to split this) do you have examples of no-name signatures in article talk? That's where it's disruptive, and while it's still acting like a jackass to not link your username if he's at least making it clear it's him there's not as much of an issue. (ec twice) ...And the above is exactly what I'm talking about. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 23:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with David Fuchs. Ottre is aware of this is causing discomfort for others. If he is unwilling to be a collegial member of our community by following simple norms about signatures, he should choose an alternate hobby. If he doesn't fix the signature promptly, a short initial block would be in order. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Just ignore me then! I have never made a completely anonymous post to a talk page, and indeed have signed ~100 IP contribs—particularly at AFD. Not linking to my history on WP is a core part of my editing philosophy; do you refuse to consider the idea that if people can confirm a user has added unsourced information in the past with a single click, they tend to delete, when they otherwise would have considered researching the addition? I do, and am actively in sourcing information by adding page refs, and checking the print edition of newspaper refs used in WP:ACOF articles. 23:48, 5 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ottre (talk • contribs)

So, I genuinely prefer WP:RS to WP:V. Could you tell me why not having a linked sig is a protest against WP:V? I'm really confused. Skinwalker (talk) 00:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I too am really confused. Some of the posts above have no signature at all. I do not know how I can follow this thread when I don't know who is posting the message. It becomes impossible.SteelSkin (talk) 00:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll watchlist both your talk pages now. I'd also like to submit this case be closed, as I always sign with my unlinked name (except in this case, to prove the conversation can easily be followed with just a timestamp and identifier) and this practice per se can hardly be considered disruption. Likely just an intolerant administrator, rejects the concept of generationalism (my name for the above, editing philosophy). Ottre 00:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but what does this have to do with verifiability vs. reliable sources? Does not having a linked signature somehow abrogate WP:V? I'm not an admin, and therefore can't block you, but I'm genuinely curious about your stance. Skinwalker (talk) 00:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Again, this is not the place to discuss how (incredibly) well it works. Ottre 00:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Warn & block. There are good reasons for linked sigs, and I'm unconvinced by reasons to the contrary. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:05, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Warn and then nuke. The attitude to ignore is ridulous and a reason for alot of drama. Should we ignore until there is a certain threshold of disruption and drama? Is or is this not against policy/guidelines? If it isn't then I apologize but I would be more than annoyed if I was interacting with this user with his present signature. --Tom 00:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I would support a final warning, followed by a block if there is no improvement. EdJohnston (talk) 00:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Really? And what , Tom, does "policy/guidelines" stand for—why do you call it that? Do you think WP:SIG is "almost policy", or "policy on a bad day"? It's in fact an editorial guideline Do we really need to display our ZOMG Great Adminz Powerz at every opportunity, like the peacock displays its tail? I'm sure very few people *want* to sign like Ottre does, and out of those that do want to, peer pressure will stop most of them putting it into practice. That leaves a miniscule minority who will actually do it. It's a bagatelle. But contrariness might turn it into a Movement, if somebody here insists on making a big deal of it. Please mellow out. Contrariness ≠ disruption. Bishonen | talk 00:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC).

I think the only one who needs to mellow out here is you, Bish. We agree on a low-drama solution to possible and past POINTy disruption, that's done with. Ottre and you want to turn this into something more. Bringing this back in hand, Ottre, I think you should consider yourself warned. Please sign with at least your username, linked or no. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 00:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Bishonen, I was trying to say that if this user is not breaking any policy or guideline, then I apologize and that user can carry on, but I would find it annoying, thats all. Also what does ZOMG stand for since i see it alot. I know after its explained I'll have know that. Anyways, no biggie, cheers, --Tom 00:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

As explained here and also with somewhat less clarity in wiktionary, OMG is "Oh My God" and the "z" or "Z" in front of it has no particular meaning except emphasis. Baseball Bugs 00:46, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Interesting to note that "All Gods Forfend" is the most common equivalent amongst pagans. Anyway... Ottre 00:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

You entered the discussion without even clicking on WP:SIG first? Wow. I mean, I see. ZOMG means Oh My God, with a Z in front of it for extra internetspeakiness. :-) Bishonen | talk 00:49, 6 February 2009 (UTC).

I did read it, but missed the part about it being "behavioual" vs a "guideline" which is different from a "policy"?? My freaking head is going to explode :) Even with the user name, without it being link does make it more effort to contact a user. For the 3rd time, if this user is within policy or guidelines or whatever, then its my problem not his.OMG :) --Tom 01:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

If you haven't been following, please don't use words like "effort". My talk page can be accessed via PageUp > History > Ottre:Talk. This is a matter (I hope) of whether or not it is acceptable for an experienced editor to flaunt established but minor editing practices. Ottre 01:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I really don't want to waste your time. That past POINT was made for a very constructive reason, unlike the "policy-wise" admins who are calling for a block if there is "no improvement" (Come on! Of course I am going to agree with consensus), and I only had to sign three times without any username at all. Ottre 00:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• For the love of , you're not required to have an account, you're not required to sign your edits, you're not required to link to anything in your sign - it's a polite suggestion, and shrugging it offer carries the penalty of getting nasty looks and naught more.
  • You're not required to respect other Wikipedians. You're not required to assume good faith. You're not required to use common sense. You're not required to say anything useful. You're not required to talk about Fight Club. Er.. wait. Ignore the last one. I hope you get what I mean, tho. :) --Conti|✉ 14:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• WOW! what an utterly ridiculous complaint this is. Some admins really have too much time on their hands. RMHED. 00:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Cheap. On a collaborative project the ability to communicate clearly is rather importance. Making authorship of talk page comments easy to identify is kinda an important part of this.Geni 01:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Or, they could just edit as an IP, or register a new account for every edit. Then they'd be perfectly in line with policy and even less traceable. WilyD 01:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I might add that my words above, where I said this whole discussion is about a "minor editing practice", aren't meant to suggest it is unimportant. It's minor/trivial because by this stage in the project, there are probably millions of edits where people have logged out to contribute something to an article. Ottre 01:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Then log out and edit as an IP so no one will bother with you, or else continue with your unlinked sig; however, WP:SIG as guideline or essay or no, leaving only a timestamp is disruptive; if you continue to do so, you may be blocked. That's all that needs to be said. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs 01:56, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Is this an encyclopedia, or a social experiment by one member to see how much annoying behavior can be withstood by other project members? The only convincing argument s/he has made so far is that s/he does it so other project members will have a more difficult time verifiying if s/he is making constructive edits. The ability to do this is what protects the integrity of the project. I'm all for personal privacy rights, but their rights end where the rest of societies rights begin. Deliberately annoying behavior for it's own sake is disruptive.Heironymous Rowe (talk) 02:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

What is going on here? Ignore this guy. There is no reason to ban/block/lose someone over something so amazingly trivial as a signature. there is a name and a timestamp. IF we are honestly considering blocking this person for that and only that, i'm...well I'm not even sure that I recognize this place. Protonk (talk) 02:50, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. Come on, it says right at the very top that there can be exceptions. This. Is. Not. Blockable. SarekOfVulcan, 03:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• No name signatures are little different than IP signatures; there's no return address likely to connect with the sender so the conversation must be of little import. Although I shouldn't be by now, I am surprised how much angst such a minor thing that doesn't affect anyone gets some people - go on, edit something by now... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 03:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:SIG clearly states that a signature must link to the user page. This is to provide easy communication amongst users. Some think that communication is a minor thing, but I think it is vitally important. My suggestion to Ottre is to put the link back into your signature and sign your posts properly to avoid angst among other users, and to end the fuss. Do it now, then we can all go home.SteelSkin (talk) 04:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

As an aside, what's with all the sigs that include names but no links all of a sudden? Is this in response to this? rootology (C)(T) 05:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Probably. Always listen to Bish. This could have been over at post number two. I really dont see why people want so much unneeded drama. -M 10:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Probably because the first thing we tell anyone who's in a dispute is to discuss it with the other editor. How's that possible if there's no link in the sig?

I know, we can all figure out where to leave messages, but we've been here a while. New editors wouldn't have any idea from looking at a talk page how to contact him, and aren't those the editors we're supposed to be welcoming?

It might or might not be strictly against policy, but it's certainly an arrogant statement, one that says "if you don't already know how to contact me, you shouldn't be doing so anyway." Dayewalker (talk) 10:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

That is a bit WP:ABFish, but on the other hand it does look as if the user is being a bit pointy. This is not the first time it's happened (e.g. Docu) and there is a reasonable degree of consensus that linking in the sig is something one should do, but no consensus to make failure to do so a hanging offence. If it's a protest, then that probably violates WP:POINT. It does confuse n00bs, and annoys some people. The obvious answer is for the user to simply fix the problem. I have a redlinked user page, and that is deliberate, it is actually quite useful to see how people react to a redlinked user page, but my sig still takes you somewhere you can talk to me. It's that absence of a quick way of getting to the user directly, which causes friction. Guy (Help!) 10:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm. Lemme see if I can get this right...based on: "if people can confirm a user has added unsourced information in the past with a single click, they tend to delete, when they otherwise would have considered researching the addition", it seems the primary motive here is deliberate obfuscation. They don't want to "have contact with" anybody who tries to enforce WP:V, because they don't personally think they should be required to follow WP:V as it pertains to uncited statements in articles. By refusing to provide a link to their contribs, they are hoping that the (albeit small) amount of extra effort required to check their editing history will: A)lower the chances that an editor will notice their history of adding uncited statements to articles, and thus B)increase the chances that people won't challenge and delete their current unsourced contribs to an article based on that history...phew. Convoluted, eh? If the guy had just said "I don't feel like it", I probably would have just said leave him alone. But now I'm really uncomfortable with invoking WP:IAR so this guy can run his strange, pointy Breakfast Machine-esque obfuscation scheme and confuse people wherever he goes. Bullzeye 13:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Let's see... in the case of User:Docu it is relatively easy to type in the username and get to the appropriate page. On the other hand, SHEFFIELDSTEEL isn't terribly helpful for anyone trying to get to my pages. That's because I use caps in my sig that aren't in my username, of course - but what about an editor who has extended / non-Roman / Unicode characters in their user name? It seems that the only way people could get to their user page would be to cut and paste their sig. Not exactly convenient.

Now, in the real world I would be right there on the barricades if anyone suggested we all had to get our addresses tattoed on our foreheads, but this is a wiki. It's based on hypertext. It is supposed to be easy (convenient, even) to click on links to get to other pages. Those users who have refused to follow this communal norm, of providing a link in their signature, have yet to provide any convincing justification for this. Whether you call that refusal "making a point" or "being pointy", it is counter-productive to the ideal of building a community whose purpose is writing an encyclopaedia. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 15:21, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Or people could click the history. We should also be pretty wary of community norms that develop in the late stage of community formation. They may have more to do with defining a community (outwardly or inwardly) than they do with making an encyclopedia. We should be doubly wary of our temptation to equate those community norms with what is or is not "counter-productive". Protonk (talk) 15:32, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

There is no problem getting to User talk:Ottre as such, it just requires extra typing. It's basically rudeness on the part of Docu and Ottre to compel people to do that extra work. But there are a lot ruder things that go on here that don't get blocked. Baseball Bugs 16:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Either it's okay for the everyone else to force individuals to put a link to one of their pages (user, talk, or contribs) or it's okay for individuals to force everyone else to have to go to the history to scrutinise their edits. Personally, I think that avoiding scrutiny is bad, and that having a link in one's sig is good, but I'm willing to accept it if consensus is (after e/c) that a certain amount of rudeness is okay, as long as it's within the letter of the law. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 16:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

No one has been able to force Docu to change his ways, so consensus must be that it's not important enough to make a thing out of. Consensus can change, though. Baseball Bugs 16:18, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

This whole issue sounded familiar, so I checked the VPP archives and found Method to protect your user and talk page from "quicky" vandals. However that editor was eventually convinced to added a link to his sig. --Kralizec! (talk) 19:28, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

In the early stage few people thought it was worth faffing around with their signatures. That kind of MySpacery is a late-stage artifact, to be sure, but not necessarily a welcome one. I for one would not care if the ability to customise signatures was simply removed. Guy (Help!) 20:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• Oy. When I brought this up, I noted that I thought a block was extreme; in other words, I wasn't suggesting blocking. If I thought a block was appropriate, I would have done it; I'm not afraid of using the tools when appropriate. In this case, I was looking for any community input on how to resolve this situation without going the block route. Some of you flamed me, some of you went off on wild tangents, some of you provided relevant input, and a few of you got to the heart of the issue. I remembered the dustup over signatures a few months ago, but I couldn't remember the relevant players (User:Docu and User:Pigsonthewing) and I couldn't recall if the situation was resolved. (It appears that Docu started linking his name for a while, and then went back to his old form.) Obviously, this isn't going to be resolved (either here on AN/I, or on WT:SIG), so I'm not going to press the matter. My main concern was that on the talk page of an article which is under article probation, an editor who had never posted before challenged the reliability of one of the sources; that editor's signature had no links in it. My first request to modify the signature was totally unacknowledged (it wasn't even deleted/archived, which is a form of acknowledgement). Perhaps I overreacted, but those of you who are berating me for bringing this up on AN/I are out of line, in my opinion. Horologium (talk) 19:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Just disable his customized signature ability :) ANyway, if he wants to prostest WP:V, I'd recommend he change his name to User:I protest WPV or something like that. But if he's not abiding by WP:V (the reason for disabling his links so he hopefully won't get reverted), then that is a serious offense, and should be taken up somewhere. For the record, I'll revert any edits he makes on the mainspace that I run across, with the stated reason that "I am protesting non-lined sigatures made in prosted of WPV, as the edits probably violate WPV anway" :) BillCJ (And can someone fix the heading so it's easier to post on this thread? Or is that a protest of WP:EL?)

Threat by disgruntled user

I received the following on my talk: from user User:Moviemaker92. Seems he/she is upset by a schoolblock I made (least I'm assuming that). Could someone leave a note on the users talk about this, they'd probably not react well if I were to do so. Thanks, Vsmith (talk) 23:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I have issued them a suitable response. --Deskana (talk) 23:50, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks :-) Vsmith (talk) 00:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

User:CCFSDCA

CCFSDCA (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is creating a lot of pages about holidays around the world. Only source given is a book, "Christopher Corbett-Fiacco, The Whole World Calendar Book of Holidays Around the World".

Claims on user page to be Christopher Corbett-Fiacco, and probably is. So there is only one source - the articles' author.

Google search for "The Whole World Calendar Book of Holidays Around the World" reveals only hits from Misplaced Pages.

There are WP:COI, WP:OR, WP:POV WP:Notability and lots of other issues here, and I'm out of my depth. pablo_hablo. 00:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The user has a thing or three to learn about editing on wikipedia - like not signing articles - and it is evident that he's pimping his book. But the one substantive article I've checked so far checks out - there is such a holiday. I suspect he needs a good talking to, which I see you've started; I'll pitch in. All of the articles he's created need to be checked and very probably de-sigged. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

A note - it is considered extremely rude to not notify a user when you mention them here. The user is now notified, but please remember this for any future noticeboard postings. — neuro 00:21, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

As Pablomismo pointed out, the very existence of the book being cited/flogged appears to be impossible to establish. It therefore can't be used as a reference in these articles. Deor (talk) 00:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Then remove it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Topic Ban of User:Deeceevoice

Deeceevoice (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log)

Pursuant to WP:ARBCOM/Clarifying motion RE:SlimVirgin "administrators are normally expected to explain their actions, respond to feedback, and otherwise engage in normal discussion and dispute resolution, and that the restriction on arbitration enforcement activity provides no exception to this standard" I'm asking for consensus on the validity of Deeceevoice is banned until 5 May 2009. Tom Harrison and further discussion at User_talk:Tom_harrison#Banning.

Without (at this stage) going over the exact he-said she-said, the motion linked above additionally states that "It does not apply to notices, editor lists, warnings, broad topic area actions, or other "enforcement actions" that are not specific actions applied to specific editors." This was in the context of Elonka warning a user and was that warning an administrative action.

I feel that the Commitee needs to provide greater clarity. Tom has, in my opinion, warned a specific editor. However, Rather than being forced to go to arbcom, can I not unwarn them? Can consensus here at ANI unwarn them? Am I smoking crack again?

I'm hoping we can avoid a long and rambling thread, so please attempt to make your replies succinct: Is the topical ban valid until removed by arbcom?
Thank you.

brenneman 00:19, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi Brenneman, I think Tom has banned an editor, which can be undone by a consensus of uninvolved admins. PhilKnight (talk) 00:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with philknight that a topic ban can be undone by a consensus discussion at a general forum such as AN/I. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 00:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• I don't have an opinion on the quasi-legal question, but it's fine to get it clarified. I guess we could meta-ize it one more level and ask if it can be clarified by a consensus of uninvolved admins, or if it can only be clarified by arbcom. (But who to ask?) Anyway, if the community decides my 3-month topic ban of Deeceevoice was unwise, I'll lift the ban, let someone else monitor the article probation at Ancient Egyptian race controversy , and return to my crucially important work on the History of English land law. Tom Harrison 03:31, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
  • I've looked in more detail at this, and I've reached the same conclusion as Jpgordon, that is Tom's ban of Deeceevoice isn't valid. Tom has tried to ban Deeceevoice under the pseudoscience discretionary sanctions, however these clearly aren't applicable in this instance. I've moved his log of the ban from the pseudoscience case page to the talk page. Obviously, an edit war would be unseemly, so I urge anyone who disagrees to gain clarification from the Arbitration Committee. PhilKnight (talk) 13:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
    • Um. I could argue fairly easily that ancient egyptian race controversies could easily be classified as pseudoscience. It is "history" and not "hard science" per se, but that isn't the important facet. The important facet is the opposition of mainstream historical thought and a POV which makes "scientific claims" for non scientific purposes. Protonk (talk) 15:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
      • Protonk, you and others are totally misconstruing the purpose of the article and my role in it. The purpose of the article is to discuss what gave rise to the controversy in the first place, the competing/contradictory portrayals, perceptions and historical accounts of the people of ancient Egypt from dynastic times, through classical antiquity to the present -- nothing more. And even within the context of the article itself, there is simply no evidence of POV pushing on my part. The ban is wholly bogus. deeceevoice (talk) 15:36, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
        • I'm not insinuating that you are pushing a POV or whatever. I don't know whether or not you are. I'm just asserting that the controversies themselves could fairly easily fall into the umbra of "pseudoscience". Protonk (talk) 15:49, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

In spite of PhilKnight's removal of my log entries, Deeceevoice is still topic banned. As I said above, if the community decides it was unwise I'll lift it. Tom Harrison 14:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

These kinds of "questions about arb enforcement" threads are probably more appropriate for WP:AE, not WP:ANI. Can we change venue? --Elonka 16:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

No objection from me, as long as it's okay with brenneman. Tom Harrison 16:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe Aaron brought this here because he wanted input as to whether community consensus was enough to lift a ban. So far, there seems to be a rough consensus that community consensus indeed can do that. So, I believe it would be more appropriate to keep the question open here.--Ramdrake (talk) 16:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Elonka tells me I didn't follow the correct steps to impose a topic ban. I will not be enforcing the topic ban on Deeceevoice, or having anything more to do with the page. Thanks to all those who've taken time to look into it and express an opinion. Tom Harrison 16:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

CU/OS election has started!

Your participation is needed! The historic first-ever CheckUser and OverSight election run by the Arbitration Committee has just started. It's taking place here. Editors are needed urgently to scrutinise the candidates so that those appointed are the best possible people for the job. Your participation here is important to make the election a success. Thanks in advance, --ROGER DAVIES  00:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Sure, I'll leave my two cents.  Marlith (Talk)  01:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Old Account

I previously used the account "thomsonboy93" in a very juvenille way that eventually got me banned. I now have taken the wiki process much more seriously, and am even the senior editor to a page that I helped create and improve. With my old account, I posted to pictures on my friends user talk page, but they were deleted. After I lost the contents of my hard drive, the pictures were also lost. Misplaced Pages deleted them, because they had no value to any articles, but I thought that since at one time they were posted on the wiki servers, wikipedia may have a copy of them. Could you please do me this favor? The files are:Image:Kacani.jpg, and Image:Katranny 2.JPG My email is frebel93@gmail.com, if you wish to get in touch with me Frebel93 (talk) 02:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/the404

• So you're an indef blocked user, evading their block and you're asking for a favour. Is that correct? RMHED. 03:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

That's probably a fair assessment of the situation. However, I don't see a problem with giving reformed editors a second chance, if they can demonstrate that they're here to edit constructively. I've sent the images requested to the email address the user provided. Parsecboy (talk) 03:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Chalk one up for common sense. RMHED. 03:51, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Inviting scrutiny like that is about as "good faith" an attitude as we'll find here. In contrast to a certain other user. What's his name. Alpha Commando, or something like that. I'm a baaad boy. Baseball Bugs 06:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Tsk. Uncalled-for. //roux   06:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I know, but could Bugs have not listed about 3,000 others while he was at it? (talk→ Bwilkins / BMW ←track) 12:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Long term block for 125.255.113.214

I've blocked 125.255.113.214 (talk · contribs · logs · block log) for two years for persistent vandalism. I was going to block for 6 months but came across these charming threats: and that this is the ip's 11th block since June 2007. It's registered to an ISP in AU. I figured I'd bring it here for discussion. Feel free to change the length if discussion warrants. Toddst1 (talk) 03:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• There is a way to get rid of this. just find an Australian user willing to call police in Melbourne and report his various death threats. I don't know anything about Australia's data privacy and carrier protection laws, but I bet the police can get that ISP to divulge his name/address without any trouble whatsover. Should stop the problems pretty soundly. Protonk (talk) 03:27, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• It's registered to Pacific Internet, but the hostname (mail.rhac.nsw.edu.au) refers to a school, Rouse Hill Anglican College. —Snigbrook 17:28, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Jimmy Hammerfist

Referred from WP:WQA, beyond the scope of minor incivility, personal attacks on another user and Gerardw (talk) 03:23, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Blocked for 2 weeks for that since the second one was on the heels of a final warning. Watch for the promised socks. Toddst1 (talk) 03:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Scribe711/Wired for Books

On January 27, 2009 Scribe711 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) added links to over 35 biography articles, mostly in their "External Links" sections. The links were to an external website, Wired for Books, consisting of audio interviews of important authors. One of those articles was Maya Angelou, one of my "pet projects" on Misplaced Pages. Several hours later, I reverted Scribe's edit, and put a warning on his talk page. Then administrator Anthony.bradbury (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) wrote a note on Scribe's talk page, explaining why his additions were spam. In spite of this, Scribe replaced the link, which I again reverted.

This began a discussion over the next several days between Scribe, Anthony.bradbury, and me. Instead of spending time detailing this conversation, I direct you to Anthony's talk page: and and mine. As you'll notice from these discussions, Scribe was rude and condescending. You'll also notice that Scribe711, on several occasions, deleted content from all three talk pages. It certainly is his right to delete content from his own talk page, but certainly not the talk pages of other editors. After some warnings, he ceased deleting Anthony's and my talk pages, but he continued to delete any kind of communication from either of us on his. This in spite of the fact that I offered to listen to the Maya Angelou interview and determine if its content was suitable for any Angelou-related article. (In the meantime, I placed the link on Talk:Maya Angelou, as per WP policy.)

It's obvious from Scribe711's behavior that he's not at all interested in contributing to Misplaced Pages. He has an agenda and as Anthony.bradbury states, he's arguing from a conflict of interest. (Scribe711 is David Kurz, the creator of Wired for Books.) He has accused me of eliciting other editors (meaning, I suppose, Anthony.bradbury) to label his additions as spam and vandalism, but Anthony, someone I've never had any kind of contact with in the past, joined the controversy on his own. Anthony and I both believe that adding a link to the end of an article, and doing that to dozens of them, constitutes spam. Scribe711 disagrees, and instead of negotiating a compromise with either of us, has chosen to reinsert the link with no conversation about it, or to delete content from talk pages. I believe this behavior warrants a block, at least a temporary one. Thank you for your consideration. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 05:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Warned one last time, will keep an eye on him. yandman 10:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I see he's been banned for multiple accounts. Apparently someone recognised him... Figure, would you mind removing some of the links he inserted? I doubt I'll have time this afternoon. yandman 10:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Be happy to. I'll probably have time to do it tonight. --Figureskatingfan (talk) 14:32, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I blocked the socks, and yes, we have been here before:

• wiredforbooks.org: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Misplaced Pages: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com
• Bono06 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)
  • Bono06 was blocked a long time ago for persistent spamming
• Dkurz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)
• Scribe711 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)

I will add the link to XLinkBot, so new socks will come up pretty quick, and do some cleanup on external links added by these three accounts (and see if there are other spammers as well). I should note, I think that the link has been used in a proper way as well, and it may be of use to the project here and there (as long as the links obey WP:NOT#REPOSITORY and WP:EL). --Dirk Beetstra 11:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Someone may want to look at Rex User (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam) too. He's been creating articles with the WiredForBooks link in the external links section, with the link in the same format used by the Bono06 sock brigade. Flopsy Mopsy and Cottonmouth (talk) 16:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• Michael Blohm (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · blacklist hits · AbuseLog · what links to user page · count · COIBot · Spamcheck · user page logs · x-wiki · status · Edit filter search · Google · StopForumSpam)

Another user who added the links, I have cleaned a lot of the link additions by the SPA-edits, and I see that Flopsy Mopsy and Cottonmouth has done the edits by Rex User. The rest seems to be added by non-involved editors for as far as I can see. --Dirk Beetstra 17:31, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• 132.235.75.195 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)

An (old) IP adding the same links. --Dirk Beetstra 17:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• As far as I'm concerned, once someone demonstrably associated with a site starts spamming links here, the consideration of NOT#DIR and EL go out the window. The site is spam, links should be deleted, the url should go on the spam blacklist, and future additions should be reverted on sight. That's probably a minority opinion. :) Protonk (talk) 17:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I found exactly one reasonable use of the site while I was looking over the contribution lists for these socks, and that one was used as an actual reference. (Wow! A real use for it!) I made sure the reference had the correct title and let it be.  :) Flopsy Mopsy and Cottonmouth (talk) 19:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I saw 2 of these links being removed via my watchlist, and have a few queries. I'm fully aware of the problems we have with being spammed (and serial-spammed, as in this case), but I'm distressed by Protonk's attitude above. I've listened to a few of these interviews, and found them informative, and have now added the link as a ref to Isaac Asimov, and would like to continue examining, and replacing where warranted, the links to these interviews. Is there going to be a further future problem with this, or can non-COI editors add/replace these links where appropriate? Thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 20:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

If there's good information in the interviews, then they should be used as references for specific facts in the article, in which case there's no question that the links should stay. Just as plain links in the External links section, though, the interviews wind up looking an awful lot like linkspam. That's my take on it, at least, from reading the policies. But I'm not an admin, just some guy or other.  :) Flopsy Mopsy and Cottonmouth (talk) 21:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Potential edit war developing

I was wondering if someone experienced in the art of diffusing edit wars could keep an eye on the contributions of Radioist (talk · contribs) and the article Internet radio, which SlubGlub (talk · contribs) has been diligently improving over several months. Radioist seems to have a vested interest in having this paragraph about HardRadio retained in the article, despite it being completely unsourced and unverified, so I'd appreciate it if somebody who knows what they're doing (which excludes me) could give Radioist the low-down on what they're doing wrong, and stuff like that. I just really don't want SlubGlub to get dragged into an edit war and potential 3RR block when he/she does such great work. Thanks. --Closedmouth (talk) 05:36, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

This appears to have been brewing for quite a while. See: Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-07-20 Internet radio. Toddst1 (talk) 05:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• Radioist is a WP:SPA engaging in promotion of HardRadio. I will issue a warning. Guy (Help!) 10:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Stevewunder making abusive comments at Talk:Ayn Rand

This user was twice warned not to engage in disruptive editing (see User talk:Stevewunder. In response he posted

As this was more of a WP:WQA issue for now, I gave him a little warning (not exactly the right one possibly) but it met the wording I wanted. (talk→ Bwilkins / BMW ←track) 10:32, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

A serious and dangerous movement, inside some Misplaced Pages Italy administrators

Good morning

I'm an University Professor, now living in Italy, where i do my researches. I'm really sad to post this denounce but i think that it's my right and my obligation to do that.

There are som Italians Misplaced Pages administrators who operates by an totalitarian way. Sometimes they have some racists attitudes (unfortunately most present in Italy at those days). They works against the liberty of expression and opinion. They are a sort of "militarized group" (in my opinion, an "anti Misplaced Pages" concept) who "hunts" some people (specially who make some observation against their acts), penalizing those people with abusive and offensive acts. You can see easily that they uses icons and pictures who reefers to a military uniforms and patents. It's a gang! A dangerous Italian gang, who hides, behind an authority of Wiki administrator, racists, fascists attitudes. (as i said first, unfortunately that's an sad and dangerous social phenomenon who is present in Italy at this time, mainly with the younger people). Probably those "administrators" are teenagers (i think, at least, Vituzzu is). Maybe teenagers can't be administrators of an important stuff like Misplaced Pages. I think that Misplaced Pages is not an RPG GAME, where teenagers hunts and kill people for fun, but an important tool that works for the democratic culture and research!

Their login names: Austroungarika, Vituzzu, Dedda71

My login name: edulevy —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edulevy (talk • contribs) 13:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

This is not the Italian Misplaced Pages. This is the English Misplaced Pages. The English Misplaced Pages is not a place to discuss problems on the Italian Misplaced Pages. The Italian Misplaced Pages is thataway. Algebraist 13:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore, you have only four contributions on the Italian Misplaced Pages, all consecutive ones to the talk page of User:Austroungarika (so basically just one edit). . You are coming to an unrelated language version of Misplaced Pages to complain about a Misplaced Pages where you have one edit, naming three editors you have had no interactions with and who yu have not notified of this discussion (as requested in the instructions for this page and basic decency). The only "military" pictures and icons I see on AustroUngarica's userpage are a couple of barnstars he received, just like they are in use on the English Misplaced Pages. When your first edits are to accuse someone of racism and fascism without any justification beyond the "military" barnstars on their userpage, it's quite logical that you get blocked there for trolling and personal attacks.

If you have a serious complaint, with evidence, then you can contact Meta or User talk:Jimbo Wales or the foundation: the English Misplaced Pages has no authority over the Italian one (or vice versa). If, on the other hand, you are just making baseless claims and trying to create drama, then continuation of this will get you surely blocked here as well. Fram (talk) 13:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Jimbo Wales has no authority over the Italian Misplaced Pages, either -- Gurch (talk) 13:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for linking foundation, which wa a helpful edit. However, please don't strike out any of my comments again, I don't appreciate it. You have raised your objections below my comment, which is sufficient, and I will strike out any part of my comment if I feel the need for it, just like I will not strike out your comment if I disagree with them. Fram (talk) 13:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

We really don't know what was he dealing with but when I saw him insulting Austroungarika (saying she's racist) I blocked him for a day, btw his beaviour is showing I'm right thinking that's only trolling--Vituzzu (talk) 14:28, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I love unintentionally ambiguous headers like "A serious and dangerous movement, inside some Misplaced Pages Italy administrators."
I think I'll skip off to the store and get them some Pepto-Bismol... it's helped me through several serious and dangerous movements. arimareiji (talk) 18:31, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Refusal to discuss or reach consensus by JuStar (talk · contribs)

JuStar (talk · contribs) has repeatedly reverted good faith edits on E=MC² (Mariah Carey album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Despite sincere efforts to discuss the matter on the article talk page, plus a message I left on their user talk page (diff), this user has refused to discuss the disagreement. If you look at JuStar's contribs and check for contribs on the Article Talk and User Talk spaces, you will see that they have made virtually no edits. As much as I appreciate their efforts, if they are unwilling to discuss their edits and simply continue to revert other's good faith edits, I suggest that they be considered for administrative action. (EhJJ) 14:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Accusation and possible stalking

The past months I have interacted with several editors over whether or not Marty Lederman, Scott Horton (lawyer), John Dean, Le Monde Diplomatique, Der Spiegel, The Washington Post several university pieces, et cetera fail RS. Trying to be civil I asked for input at the RS noticeboard. To my surprise I am now being accused of inserting my personal dissertation into articles. No, this is not the case, for the record this is not my article as I happen to be a physician in daily life.Could somebody look into this and ask those involved to stop 1) making wild accusations, 2) searching articles I work on to continue their edit war, 3) stop using misleading edit summaries, 4) to abide by WP:AGF, WP:CIVIL, WP:V, WP:STALK,WP:VANDAL. Nomen Nescio 14:29, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

This is now the fourth noticeboard Nescio has complained to after every single editor to evaluate it on the first three rejected his claims, and four separate editors (including a member of the arbitration committee) found policy violations by Nescio's edits. The issue is that Nescio wishes to insert a pet theory of Lyndon Larouche into three articles based on the synthesis of an unpublished Ph.D. dissertation by Ahmad Chehab and blog posts by Scott Horton and a half-dozen unrelated articles that don't mention the underlying subject. Since Ahmad Chaheb has absolutely no google footprint or notability, I've repeatedly asked Nescio why he is so insistent on including this material in multiple articles, and this is the first he's denied a COI. Fine, but there's still the problem of RS, SYN, WEIGHT, SPS, and BLP. Content dispute: nothing to see here except Nescio's violation of WP:DEADHORSE and WP:EW, but if you want to avoid WP:MULTI, there is a discussion at Talk:Unitary executive theory. THF (talk) 14:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Nobody rejected since nobody commented. This misleading statement is a fine example of how this user operates. Second, I am asking for assistance in stopping the abuse which is entirely different from my previous request meant to establish why this user is removing RS. I reitterate: no help on article but to stop the accusations and stalking.!'' Nomen Nescio 15:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

User:SmashTheState, or, Now we see the violence inherent in the system!!1

• SmashTheState (talk · contribs)

Without looking at the users contributions I see two problems:

1. Username is probably not inline with Misplaced Pages:Username policy#Inappropriate usernames (may fall under eiter promotional or disruptive usernames)
2. Userpage is a violation of Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks and Misplaced Pages:User page

Please take a look at the users userpage before replying.

-- Cat 15:28, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

i.e. "Misplaced Pages is the place where angry, white, male, overprivileged, socially-dysfunctional nerds with serious personality disorders come to take out their frustrations on others." I wouldn't be against a block here (even if what he's saying is true in my case :) )  GARDEN  15:34, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Here's a poser: If someone calls you a name, and it's verifiably true through reliable sources, does it still count as a "personal attack" under wikipedia guidelines? Or if it's not verifiably true, but could be true, is it really a "personal attack", or is it just a POV-push? Some IP address awhile back called me an "ugly ignorant fool". My answer was, "How dare you call me ugly?" Because he might be able to prove the "ignorant fool" part, but the "ugly" part is strictly POV. Baseball Bugs 17:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I see no problem with the name. You can ask the user to change the offensive portions of their userpage. Protonk (talk) 15:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Not sure I agree with the Username concerns, that is a little bit of a reach to my mind. As for his userpage....hrm. It is iffy. Is it a breach of NPA or just a lack of civility? Does it demonstrate a systematic failure to AGF? Can't say I'd want to make the call. Garden does help by highlighting the exact concern phrases. Perhaps if Whitecat could highlight the specific things he thinks are wrong, SmashTheState could take care of it without the need for admin. --Narson ~ Talk • 15:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC) (ec)

It's threads like this that got me to unwatchlist AN and ANI a little while ago, and (after backsliding) have just caused me to unwatchlist it again. Everyone needs to grow some thicker skin, and stop actively looking for things to be outraged about. This casual talk of blocking for, I suppose, not showing proper deference in the phrase quoted by Garden (or maybe it was having the audacity to use the word "factotem"?) is.... I don't know what to call it. "Proving SmashTheState's point" comes to mind. --barneca (talk) 16:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Holy crap. You had AN and AN/I watchlisted at some point? Wow. Dedication. Protonk (talk) 17:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Heck, I'm even thinking of unwatching my own editor review - two editors who disagree with my comments (or who cannot read) have taken the opportunity to majorly skew context and trash me. Good thing I'm used to WP:DRAMA from around here :-) (talk→ Bwilkins / BMW ←track) 17:33, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Looks to me like satire. Don't fret none about the user page. Watch the contributions. That's what's important. If he's engaged in POV-pushing and original research, then he'll be brought to a screeching halt. Baseball Bugs 16:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Satire? Read the rest of that section and see if you still think he is being satirical rather than nursing a grudge. Ironholds (talk) 16:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I read it. It's a rant. But it raises the question, If he really hates wikipedia so much, then what's he doing here? Hence the need to watch the contribs. If he starts pushing a point of view, then he can be stopped faster than you can say, "Help! Help! I'm bein' repressed!" Baseball Bugs 16:15, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile, the presumed superiority of the old Soviet system vs. the American system reminds me of this one, from Will Rogers: "In Russia, they ain't got no income tax. But they ain't got no income!" Baseball Bugs 16:16, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Honestly he's probably just another white, male, middle class person from an English speaking OECD country bitching about wikipedia being comprised only of white, male, middle class people from English speaking OECD countries. Pretty standard, and easy enough to ignore. Protonk (talk) 16:50, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I was going to write something about the whole rant being sadly amusing, but you kind of nailed it down there. His editing style *is* rather confrontational, looking at some of the discussions he's had in the past, so it's probably something to keep an eye on. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Hey, the user is an anarcho-syndicalist, just like Dennis from the greatest movie ever made. Surely the user sees "the violence inherent in the system". MuZemike 19:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• It's not so much the grudge-bearing evident on the user page as edits to content with summaries like "Rand was a psychopath" which raise major red flags for me. I have blocked the user pending a credible explanation of his behaviour. Guy (Help!) 19:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

  Maybe they have good reason to bear a grudge, who can say. The edit summary was appropriate given the content and ref they added. So all in all an extremely piss poor block without any merit at all. RMHED. 20:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Side note: Why has this only just been brought up now when the user account was created two and a half years ago? I would have preferred the user to have had the chance to explain himself before a block considering he isn't a very active editor. Plus, his rant has been on his userpage since July 2008 - I'm a tad surprised at the block given the fact its only just been raised now. D.M.N. (talk) 19:49, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Good god there are some thin skins on Misplaced Pages. That was the most entertaining userpage I've read in months. DuncanHill (talk) 19:55, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

This was his eighth edit: . Nothing has changed since then. He has never been anything other than a political activist bringing his battles to Misplaced Pages, and I'm astounded he lasted this long. Guy (Help!) 20:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Funny I feel the same way about you Guy. RMHED. 20:28, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

What, that I'm a political activist bringing external battles to Misplaced Pages? You might have a hard time proving that, since I have been accused of bias by both left- and right-wing POV-pushers. Do tell, though - what external battles am I bringing here? I'd love to know. Guy (Help!) 21:30, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I suspect it was the "astounded he lasted this long" bit he was referring to. DuncanHill (talk) 21:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, me too. When I was at school I was absolutely convinced I would be dead by the age of thirty, to find myself still here aged 45 is a constant source of amazement. Guy (Help!) 22:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Great. Now, instead of just ignoring someone we have fulfilled their prophesies about wikipedia banning people for their views. The easiest way to avoid granting credence to these folks is to avoid making them martyrs. Protonk (talk) 21:29, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Eventually he's just going to get unblocked and be all kinds of obnoxious about this. TastyCakes (talk) 22:06, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

The very act of pursuing a case against him proves what he stated in his rant. Sweet, sweet irony. --Nik (talk) 23:15, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Soundout

Hello,

I have noticed that all the articles written by User:Soundout include links toward a (his?) website: Audioville. For example, have a look at these three articles (there are tenth of similar ones):

The_Boarded_Window_(radio)

The_Fall_of_the_House_of_Usher_(Radio)

Apocalypse_(radio)

The "Media" section of all these articles is basically the same and include a link to AudioVille where they sell copies of these radio shows. There are also one or two AudioVille links in the "External links" section so up to 3 links per article. The articles themselves are reasonably well written and referenced, but it still really looks like a disguised advertisement for AudioVille.

What is the policy in this instance? Should the articles be deleted as spam? Or should we just go through the articles and remove the links to AudioVille? For information, all the articles have already been nominated for speedy deletion although it was decided to keep them: Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/The_Time_Machine_(Radio)_et_al

Any suggestion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laurent1979 (talk • contribs) 16:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

If it's a spamsite, delete it from the articles and warn the contributor to stop. If he won't stop, turn him in to WP:AIV. Unless a kindly admin decides to take action from here first. :) Baseball Bugs 16:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

• audioville.co.uk: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Misplaced Pages: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com

Looks spammy, Soundout has added 205 of the 210 linkadditions in my database. Maybe some cleanup would be good here. --Dirk Beetstra 16:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I have put a spam warning on his discussion page. Is there any automated way to remove the AudioVille links? I have started removing some manually but it is going to take me a while. Laurent (talk) 16:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I have added it to XLinkBot, which should stop new additions by new users (it will not stop Soundout, but they is watched now). Unfortunately there is no automated way to really cleanly remove the links. --Dirk Beetstra 16:29, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I have reverted his spam. Took me half an hour but that was worth it :) Laurent (talk) 16:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there's more to it. The guy likely wrote those articles for the express purpose of advertising the product. That's my take on it, anyway. We'll see what he has to say, if anything. Baseball Bugs 17:09, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

He seems to be working for or on behalf of Radio Tales, however I'm not sure what we can do about it since his articles are otherwise well documented and the topics seem to be notable enough. He also wrote a lot about the videogame soundtracks produced/composed by Winnie Waldron and Winifred Phillips, who both work for Radio Tales too. Laurent (talk) 20:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure that Radio Tales itself is notable, but I doubt that the individual story dramatizations are. Adaptations like these usually rate no more than a mention in the articles about the source works of fiction. Deor (talk) 21:06, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Cp fan

The user Cp fan (talk · contribs) started editing recently, and has created a userpage with an {{administrator}} template, has declined an unblock request and and has been tagging user pages, usually of blocked accounts, to Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Hamish Ross and other sockpuppet categories related to the same user. This includes at least two accounts, The JPCU (talk · contribs) and Computer whizz-kid (talk · contribs), that have not been blocked, and Cp fan looks like another sock. The user's other edits have usually been reverts of IP edits, but I'm not sure if all of the edits being reverted are vandalism. —Snigbrook 18:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm rather concerned by this. Looking at some of the usernames he has been tagging (e.g. to do with swirly faces or a certain notorious glam-rocker) , and one possible interpretation of cp leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth. DuncanHill (talk) 18:58, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

... and I took away his self-awarded barnstar (talk→ Bwilkins / BMW ←track) 19:00, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

That seems a bit mean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.88.87 (talk) 22:08, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

We aren't supposed to give barnstars to ourselves (see WP:Barnstars). They are 'awards' we give to each other, so removing a self-awarded barnstar isn't mean. -kotra (talk) 22:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Main Page BLP Violation (In the News section)

The use of the phrase "investment scam" is incompatible with WP:BLP - everything is alleged, nothing is proven. This should be re-worded in a more NPOV way and link directly to the article at the current NPOV title Enten currency investigation rather than the redirect it currently links to. Exxolon (talk) 19:44, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

BLP doesn't say we can't include negative information or claims about living people. It says we can't do so in an abusive manner and without proper reliable sources. I don't think either article about the incident or person, or the main page entry, are abusive. The sources seem to be plentiful and reliable. Does not appear to be a violation. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:25, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

User:Adoniscik vandalizing and blanking the article Fethullah Gulen

User:Adoniscik is consistently vandalizing and blanking the biography of Fethullah Gulen, and starting edit wars. Majority of the editors cannot find the chance to develop the article. He claims ownership of the article and push his/her POV and his version. He is deleting about 80 of 100 references and huge part (about 8/10) of the article. He systematically call editors against his POV as stockpots of others to keep others away from the article. He does not give any specifics of his objection and use the edit summaries for nonsense comments. It hurts the quality of the article a great deal and violates many WP policies. He does not add any useful information to the article, just delete useful and recent information. Your attention is greatly appreciated. Here is just a few recent edits of him. Thanks. Eranist (talk) 20:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Um, can you provide a diff or two of this editor calling others "stockpots"? LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of the claims of referring to other editors as kitchenware, I'd point out the the above user was created 3 days ago and has edited nothing else, and this appears to be a content dispute. Dispute resolution is that way, third door on the left. The discussion here also appears relevant. Black Kite 21:51, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Reversion of large numbers of my edits by User:Pigsonthewing

Another contributor, User:Pigsonthewing has made good contributions to Misplaced Pages in the past and he often has good insights on problems. Although we have had frequent incidents of friction over matters of a fairly esoteric nature regarding microformats, I honestly value his opinion, and have responded to suggestions he has made. However, we have already had one requiring the intervention of an administrator on commons User:Swift. The most recent incident is today with a mass reversion of work I have been doing with Misplaced Pages support for extreme dates. One particular revision prevents me from demonstrating the benefits of a proposal I have made to the owners of the protected template {{Infobox_Former_Country}}. I am requesting assistance from a mediator who is willing to install a Firefox extension so they may understand the positions of the two parties. The user believes that this work constitutes "sandbox" work, whereas an examination of the templates {{start-date}} will reveal that they are robust, nontrivial, and can provide substantial benefit to users. The change has been discussed civilly at this page. So far only one user other than myself and Mr Mabbett have voiced an opinion. Mr. Mabbett believes that it is necessary to revert any use of the template rather than give me the opportunity to fix whatever he thinks is wrong. As far as I know, none of the "damage" he claims has been made is visible to Misplaced Pages users, so the remedy of mass reversions is difficult to understand. I have attempted to reach agreement with this user over some ground rules over settling these differences, but I have failed, and I am reaching out for your assistance. Thank you. -J JMesserly (talk) 22:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

1. Vandalizing and blanking the page while blaming on others as being sockpopets
2. Using edit summaries for nonsense comments and discussion
3. Alienating new users
4. Claims ownership and push his version