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Rage against the machine

Please semi-protect Rage Against The Machine (album). The release date for this article has been changed so many times, it has caused guests nothing but confusion. I propose that the release date is kept at November 1992 (no date of November, just the month) and then semi-protected so that only registered users can edit it. --Sky Attacker (talk) 10:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Declined – Not enough recent disruptive activity to justify protection. The article is hardly in a state of conflict, two different IPs have made a total of 5 edits in the past month. Protection is only used when the frequency of problematic edits reaches a rate that is impossible to keep up with. 5 edits spread over a month is hardly at that level. When it reaches 5 bad edits per hour, come back and talk to me.--Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

About deleting page

About deleting my page...

Please kindly tell me if you have read my last post in Karheim talk page, as i posted it just 10seconds before it has been deleted :( and tell me if your decision based on this or not..

it was about osram sylvania full kit, from its official site, which another user claimed it is illegal..is osram illegal? if i add these infos in osram wikipedia, will this removed?

Thanks in advance..we all thank you about the work you do for us in wikipedia

Psikxas —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psikxas (talk • contribs) 01:34, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

the article was deleted for being about an entity which gave no indication as to why it would be important or notable enough for inclusion in Misplaced Pages, not for anything "illegal". If you wish to write an article about this subject, you must first establish that the subject itself merits an article by meeting the criteria as laid out at WP:N. If the subject is not notable enough for an article, it shouldn't have one regardless of what is written in that article. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Jayron32 you are very kind to me, a new user, and really appreciate your help. ive read to companies site that managed to produce bulb size for xenon kits other than these of d2s, thats why i though it worths been listed here. Ive also tried to post company slogan, as maybe Mcdonalds slogan appear here, so as, if anyone want to know about the slogan, cant he search in wikipedia for it? Finally, as it was one of my first posts, though other users could complete it if it is mentioned as "advertisment" at first in order to become suitable for posting here.

Is there such and ability, to un-delete my post temporary (and leave as less infos as you think), and leave the community correct or even report the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Psikxas (talk • contribs) 01:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, i must admit in public that Jayron32 is an admin here in order to HELP US! And he is doing it EXCELLENT. Thanks Jayron!

Psikxas (talk) 01:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. You will find that all admins are here to help you. There is only a problem when people are not here to improve the encyclopedia themselves. But thank you for your kind words. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:57, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Protecting my edits and talk pages

I appreciate the blocks you have handed out in response to vandals personally attacking me. Top-notch work buddy, thanks very much! talk ProSpider 04:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Just pushing my mop around here. When I see a stain on the floor, I wipe it up... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry

Hi, I apologize. I asked in the Misplaced Pages IRC channel if normal users can post warnings regarding other users and they told me to go ahead. The user I "warned" has tried to make articles about himself in the past and I just thought I'd let him know that Misplaced Pages is not really meant for that, but rather for editing and contributing to Misplaced Pages. I didn't mean to cause anything disruptive. --Judgespearmkii (talk) 05:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

About making a new account. Well, I didn't do it intentionally. I don't remember the password to the account I made here a while back since it's been a while since I've used Misplaced Pages. I know my way from using other Wikis besides this one, and thats where I learned about the user I commented on, who has tried to make his own Wiki page on various other Wikis. I just thought I'd tell him that he shouldn't do that here on Misplaced Pages. I didn't mean any harm in creating a new account to do so, sorry. --Judgespearmkii (talk) 21:34, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Also, my only other account here is "machriderx." I haven't made any other accounts besides that. I have an older sibling who also has used this site in the past, but I am for the most part unaware of his activities here or what his username(s) may be. --Judgespearmkii (talk) 21:54, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Karheim

Greetings, Jayron32. Thank you for speedy deleting Karheim. Please take note that it looks very much as though we are dealing with a puppetmaster and a couple of socks; see SPI. Furthermore, it seems to me this user (under however many names s/he has assumed) may be using this subpage for promotional purposes by means of direct links to it on non-Misplaced Pages pages. Was userification necessarily warranted here? —Scheinwerfermann ·_C06:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Really, Scheinwerfermann, have you anything personal with me? 1.You deleted every evidence i provided in your talk page from Osram that pointed you didnt tell the whole truth that HID lamps are illegal from your talk page. Xm... 2.Why other admins here are helpful and kind?? 4.Am i the ONLY user one here who has a personal subpage? 5.To Jayron32: However, if admin Jayron32 thinks im violating any policy by having personal page till i finish it and thinks he made a HUGE mistake as an admin as Scheinwerfermann says, feel free to do anything needed . Admin Jayron32 gained already my repsect!

Psikxas (talk) 09:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Lets let SPI run its course on this one. I would not be surprised, given the evidence, if this turned out to be a truthful accusation, but there may also be a reasonable explanation for this. The SPI page has not yet been investigated, so lets let this one go until a reasonable conclusion is reached. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 11:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Jayron32, i dont know now what to do. Remove the page? Correct it? Please remove any infos you may think from the page, remove the whole page or leave it as it is till SPI finishes. I dont want to cause any trouble to you from a single article here because you restored it... so take any actions you may think! Psikxas (talk) 01:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Do nothing. Just let things run their course. The SPI investigation has nothing to do with the article. You are being accused of operating multiple accounts in an abusive way. I have no idea if the accusation is true or not, but this has nothing to do with the article. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Hello Jayron32,

Ive read everything you provided to me and think im back better,i know better wikipedia's policy, really thank you. Now im working on my userpage. Please have a look at it and kindly tell me your opinion, if i am on a good way, if its notable/neutral etc.Really trying hard for it, believe me. I dont want to bother you all the time, so ill do nothing till you have time and i hear from you.

For one more time, i apologize for any troubles i caused to you and all the responses you had to give because of me... Psikxas (talk) 01:42, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Headsup: a discussion wrt the possibility of renaming

"Internet homicide" has commenced at Talk:Internet_homicide#Name. ↜Just me, here, now … 20:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

alright... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

10/26/1986

Hello, this is concerning my aritcle "10/26/1986" which you deleted a few days ago. I understand that the article is not exactly wikipedia material however it was written as an assignment for college and I need to show what I wrote to my professor. Can I at least have a copy of it please so I can submit it to my professor, I will not attempt to re submit it on wikipedia. Unfortunately I have been givin until today at 5:00pm to submit so a speedy response is extremely appreciated. thank you. Tyler Healy. Uncannyfish. Uncannyfish (talk) 15:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Reply

Dear Jayron32,

In various parts of the internet, people are often encouraged to "lurk more" before doing anything, to avoid the annoyance of having to deal with Newbies. I have lurked enough to be familiar with everything, so that I do not inconvenience others. If you have any other questions, please ask. Sincerely, Myownusername (talk) 01:52, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

I am a fast learner. If you have any other concerns I would be happy to address them Myownusername (talk) 01:57, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

What do you think of

I would report it to Sockpuppetry peopl but I figure might as well get an opinion first User:Qweqwewert user:59.105.23.90 user:Liu Tao all make the same edits, and therefor looksl ike a sockpuppet case, buit, 1: i don't remember where to report it. It very obviously is the same person, look at History of Kuomintang and Liu Tao's talkpage.--Jakezing (Your King (talk) 12:53, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Try WP:SPI. Checkusers could confirm this better than I could. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Self-check

Hi Jayron,

I have reverted 3 times on M24 Sniper Weapon System and won't touch it again for a while but there is a Russian bloggist insistent on using his site as a reference. I'm trying to get him to the talk page instead of pushing it in again. I don't want to go too far so this is out of my hands for now. Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I have blocked the IP in question for edit warring. If I were you, I would avoid editing the article in question for some time to avoid the appearence of edit warring yourself. Instead, perhaps report the problem to WP:RSN to get outside comments on his site. If there is a consensus not to use his reference, it would go a long way towards backing your position. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Will avoid editing there and see what others have to say. Thank you for the help and the advice..always welcome.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 04:46, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps invitation

Hello, I hope you are doing well. I am sending you this message since you are a member of the GA WikiProject. I would like to invite you to consider helping with the GA sweeps process. Sweeps helps to ensure that the oldest GAs still meet the criteria, and improve the quality of GAs overall. Unfortunately, last month only two articles were reviewed. This is definitely a low point after our peak at the beginning of the process when 163 articles were reviewed in September 2007. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. All exempt and previously reviewed articles have already been removed from the list. Instead of reviewing by topic, you can consider picking and choosing whichever articles interest you.

We are always looking for new members to assist with the remaining articles, so if you are interested or know of anybody that can assist, please visit the GA sweeps page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. If only 14 editors achieve this feat starting now, we would be done with Sweeps! Of course, having more people reviewing less articles would be better for all involved, so please consider asking others to help out. Feel free to stop by and only review a few articles, something's better than nothing! Take a look at the list, and see what articles interest you. Let's work to complete Sweeps so that efforts can be fully focused on the backlog at GAN. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 08:19, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Half-bricks and dead cats

From time to time, I'm away for a couple of days at a time, after which I try to catch up with my favorite RefDesks on my return. All through that article, I'm thinking to myself ... where's the dead cat ... somebody has to swing a dead cat ... man, where are these people from, anyway (that they don't swing a dead cat).

So, thanks for adding the reference to one of my favorite phrases! (I get some really funny looks when I try to use than in Europe, though.) --DaHorsesMouth (talk) 22:21, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting people who hadn't heard of swinging dead cats... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 22:28, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jayron, you know what you should do,

NOMINATE ME FOR ADMIN, COME ON MAN DO IT. This is partially because i wanna try to do it, and i want ot see if it snowballs against me partially, at which point I'll call a lot of people biased and unforgiving.--Jakezing (Your King (talk) 05:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

clarie the movie _______________________________________ aparently you don't watch the hallmark channel, cause clarie was on the hallmark channel,the reason it was so short is because i forgot what the movie was all about, but i remembered bits and pieces of the movie, i am going to write it again and try to remember the rest of the movie, thanks for the help.Kaybugg1 (talk) 18:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

You here jay?--Jakezing (Your King (talk) 20:10, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Disruptive ID editor warring again

Hi, I am having a dispute with an IP editor in the AKM article whi is edit warring, his talk page reveals that he was previously blocked for doing the same, by yourself. I've warned him and the editor continues to disrupt the page, refusing to discuss. Oh, it is User talk:69.141.140.192 Koalorka (talk) 15:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

A couple questions for you...

What are the benefits of a tree structure?

The article doesn't say.

I'm interested, because I need to explain the benefits in the guideline on outlines I'm writing. (Outlines are a type of tree structure).

I've also asked the question at various reference desks, and these threads may help to jump start your brain on this question.  :)

• Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Science#What are the benefits of a tree structure?
• Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Mathematics#What are the benefits to humans of using a tree structure?
• Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Humanities#In the humanities, what are the applications and benefits of a tree structure?
• Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Language#What are the benefits of using tree structures in linguistic communications?
• Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#With respect to the fields covered by this refdesk, what are the applications and benefits of a tree structure?

What are the benefits of outlines, over and above regular articles?

What benefits have you noticed?

How are Misplaced Pages's outlines useful to you?

I look forward to your answers on my talk page.

The Transhumanist    04:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Meh. Don't really care. I read and ignored these threads at the ref desks. Not sure I am much more interested here. Sorry! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

New Kadampa tradition

Hi Jayron You refuse my request for unblock on the above-someone else reverted it. Please, if you have time, read the rant on that talk page at the bottom as it explains what is going on-I really need help No hard feelingsYonteng (talk) 20:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Please see dispute resolution and request mediation or something like that. I am not here to play referee between the two sides in this war... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK Update - 05/17/2009 - Blockbusting!

This project needs another shot in the arm.

So here it goes...

Countries WikiProject Collaboration - Contests!

I've contacted all 59 members of the Countries WikiProject to help in designing and conducting contests for the further development of the country outlines.

You are invited too.

Houston, we have a problem

The guidelines and outline article still aren't complete.

Which means you will be needed to help explain to the newcomers mentioned above what outlines are and how to develop them.

Please participate in the discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Countries#Hosting country coverage contests.

The Transhumanist    22:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Good faith…?

Greetings, Jayron32. In reference to Psikxas (talk · contribs) (sockpuppet smackdown ], MfD here), please take note that his company's logo ( File:Karheim.jpg) was deleted today (copyvio: corporate logo, not text only), and Psikxas immediately re-uploaded the very same image with a new title and replaced it on his user-page-cum-billboard. I am running out of ability to assume this user is acting in good faith, what do you think? Sock puppets, numerous violations of behavioural protocol, putting his commercial pseudo-article on his front userpage, and now these copyvio logo shenanigans just don't add up to anything but a persistent attempt to use Misplaced Pages for promotional purposes. —Scheinwerfermann ·_C05:11, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Adopt me please!

Hey Jayron32!

I am new to wikipedia. I've made random edits anonymously, and I have successfully added links and references to a couple articles. I want to learn more about making wikipedia a better place.

I was hoping you could be my mentor, and help me out as I stumble through figuring wikipedia out.

Do you have any suggestions on where I should start honing my skills?

Thank you

StNicksRocks (talk) 06:34, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Jayron32! I'm starting off with Copy-Editing. This is the article I'm currently working on: http://en.wikipedia.org/Communist_Party_of_Italy How am I doing so far?

I also want to learn more about patrolling for Vandalism.

Hope you're well,

StNicksRocks (talk) 05:17, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey Jayron32. Thanks for being a patient mentor. So I'm starting to realize there is JUST SO MUCH OUT THERE. I've dabbled with patrolling, trying to fix vandalism, editing random articles. I'm having trouble zeroing in on a place to focus on. What is your advice?

Thanks, StNicksRocks (talk) 07:20, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Orphan needs good home.

I saw that you are currently adopting. I hope that is still correct. I am completely lost and feel inundated with info! I am trying to write my first article. I have been and am in the process of reading the instructions. Good GOD there are a lot of instructions! I want to do this, and really want it to be done well! But no matter how hard I try to play around in the sandbox, try understanding the set up of various, well written wiki's to get a clue on how to simply write one, aside from all the rules, tips, links and suggestions, I am overwhelmed and lost. Can you help?

My name is Nicole and user name is NHearn. This is my first wiki experience and I have been just trying to figure out where to even start for 3 weeks. I am not usually a slow learner, so I think maybe I need help... Let me know. Thank you! NHearn (talk) 19:26, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey there! It's your adoptee :) with questions once again.

Few questions and one fav to ask if you have time to help. I have worked hard to remove peacock language from my wiki in my sandbox: User:NHearn/Sandbox, and try to avoid making it sound like an advertisement.I really am just trying to give kind of a company bio breakdown.I understand the issues and why it is so important to write with an impartial unbiased tone. Plus, I don't want to run into WP delete issues somewhere along the road, especially since I've been working on this for a while now. Can you take a look at my wiki and give me any content and formatting suggestions. I still have a few things to do before I will be ready to post the final content to its own page:

1. Categorize it: I've read...and read....and read........
a. How do I link it to a category? 
b. How do I choose a category? 
c. Do I choose all applicable categories (more than one), or just one?
2. I have been given auth. by owner of all copyrighted content to use and let wiki use, with
   full GFDL, but...
a. Who do I direct that authorization to? 
b. Does it need to be emailed? 
c. What does the release need to contain, and exactly who is supposed to send it. (Yes, I've
   read, I'm just a bit lost.....sorry.)
d. And do I need to add one of the Copyright images to the page, if so, where?
3. a. How exactly do I add an image to the wiki? I have read all over W.Commons, and signed 
up, only to find out I can't use it for W.Pedia.... 
b. If I can, how?
4. When you have time, could you take a look and help me with this?

So..... I feel like a major pain ... but cannot thank you enough for your help. I promise, I have looked for these answers. But there are so many answers and options, that I just become confused even more at times. Thank you again. Have a lovely weekend! NHearn (talk) 21:48, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

File:Mike Holovak.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Mike Holovak.jpg, has been listed at Misplaced Pages:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. ViperSnake151  Talk  20:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Problems with upload of File:Holovak2.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Holovak2.jpg. You don't seem to have said where the image came from, who created it, or what the copyright status is. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Misplaced Pages, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.

To add this information, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
• Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags

Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 02:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

reply to orphan needs good home

1. How do I reply to your comments/response other than starting an entirely new topic? 2. THANK YOU for your help! It IS greatly appreciated! 3. I thought I was working in the "sandbox" these last few weeks and have been actually writing ACTUAL wikis OOPS! I'm not sure where this sandbox is, but am beginning to feel dummer by the second. 4. The article is on the history of a company in Kansas. I am usually good at writing unbiased, even when familiar w/topic, and can be objective. I have no idea how to edit without screwing it up completely. Which I would not want to be done to my hard work. Since I can't find the instructions or key to all the html or whatever it is that is used to format (aside from the tool bar at the top), I'm not sure what to do. Do I need to learn to write HTML code first?

Thanks and sorry for the extent of issues. Your help is greatly appreciated! NHearn (talk) 13:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Days of Our Lives Cast Member Page

Hello again, I need some help at the List of Days of our Lives cast members page. An IP, starting with 74.216... keeps editing mercessily there, adding unsourced information, and ignoring the hidden warnings. You protected the page from IP editing a few weeks ago, and it doesn't look like there is enough to do it again, but I do need some help in dealing with this individual. The IP changes every time (of course), and he/she removes the hidden tags. Any help you could give would be most appreciated. Rm994 (talk) 15:57, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

1995 Brazilian Grand Prix

Hi Jayron32. I noticed you're name at WP:PRV. I was wondering whether you could peer review the 1995 Brazilian Grand Prix article for me, leaving you're comments here. If you could make any comments at the PR, that'd be great. Kind regards, D.M.N. (talk) 17:04, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Has the shit hit the fan? - WPOOK update, 05/25/2009

Maybe...

We've started the next phase

I was experiencing mental block on the article draft for "outline" and on the outline guideline draft. And this was holding the whole project back. Without these (which are intended to explain the type of lists known as outlines in detail), the danger is higher that a controversy could go the wrong way.

I requested help on them, but there was none forthcoming.

So I went ahead and started us on the next phase of operations without those 2 pages...

Our AWB'ers and I have placed about 1600 notices all over Misplaced Pages. And the plan is to place several thousand more.

This generated only one complaint, but it was a very vocal one, and attracted a few other detractors who seemed unfamiliar with the concept of hierarchical outlines and their benefits. However, just as many or more editors came to the defense of the OOK, and there was no consensus formed. But, dab is still trying to rally opposition to outlines at the Village Pump. See below...

Administrator noticeboard incident and Village Pump policy discussion

It appears that the banner placed on the talk page of the Outline of Switzerland caught the attention of an editor named Dbachmann who posted a rather forceful message on my talk page, another on WT:WPOOK, another at WP:VPP, and still another at WP:AN!

He went well out of his way to use negative hype to cause a stir.

It appears that Mr. Bachmann doesn't understand the nature of hierarchical outlines and their applications. And though he implied that he has never seen an OOK outline before, he was involved with a discussion on these when they were called "lists of basic topics".

His primary argument is that outlines are content forks of articles, and violate WP:CFORK.

But "topic lists", of which outlines are a type, have been around for almost as long as Misplaced Pages, and fall under the WP:LISTS and WP:STAND guidelines. They aren't intended as forks, as they are lists, bringing the benefits of lists to the corresponding subjects, such as grouping and navigation.

Someone suggested an MfD, but lists are articles, and are within the jurisdiction of AfD. Only the portal page, which merely lists the outline articles, falls within the scope of the MfD department.

The administrator's noticeboard was considered the wrong venue for the discussion, and the discussion was closed.

But Dab's discussion at the Village Pump is still active. Hopefully level heads will prevail there too.

Now what?

Am I disheartened or deterred? Hell no. I say "full steam ahead!"

But we really need to finish the article draft and the guideline. Otherwise there will continue to be confusion.

Over the next week or two, we'll be posting another 1600 or so notices. It's a good thing we didn't send out 10,000 of them all at once.  :)

The Transhumanist    23:41, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: Another related thread has popped up at WP:VPR#OoK's expediency. --TT   04:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

CBS Mandate deletion

Uhh...thanks, I guess. I've never even heard of the Barnstar of Integrity before, let alone gotten one. No, I just have gotten better at seeing what are important and encyclopedic on here. The CBS Mandate isn't one of those items. Hey, we all have to start somewhere. Jgera5 (talk) 03:23, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

article Karheim restore

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

My talk page is not the place to carry on your disputes. Mediation is thataway...

Hi Jayron32.

• After reviewing changes i made to User:Psikxas/Karheim to see now is notable,
• this convertation here Misplaced Pages:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Psikxas/Karheim to see that admin Scheinwerfermann acted in bad faith and thats why he started reporting article in any mean,many times, and upon its creation,
• after reviewing the result as No consensus of the above discussion about if article -as it is now after many editing- violates any policy according to reporting admin "NOTHOST and CORP and apparently COI" ,

please kindly tell me if its possible to restore article with latest changes from userspace to mainspace of wikipedia. THANKS for any help provided to me from EARLY beggining, and promise to you ill do my best to make wikipedia better! Psikxas (talk) 20:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Psikxas, please be mindful and thoughtful before throwing around accusations of bad faith. You and I do not agree on what you're doing or how you're doing it, but that does not mean I am acting in bad faith. Neither does a nonconsensus conclusion to an XfD. Several editors and administrators have tried to coach you on such core Misplaced Pages values as notability, verifiability, reliable sources, and others. You seem not to be especially interested in these, which is a pity for you (because it means your contributions don't last long and in this case aren't in mainspace) and for the project (because your contributions create cleanup work for administrators and other editors, rather than improving the encyclopædia). We'd really like for you to contribute coöperatively…won't you please put in the brief time it takes to understand how Misplaced Pages's main principles and protocols work, rather than operating according to your own guesses and assumptions of how they work? —Scheinwerfermann ·_C05:37, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

aiv

Thanks. Some personal attacks go too far. APK lives in a very, very Mad World 01:38, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

No prob. I've got your back... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I know. It hurts so good. APK lives in a very, very Mad World 01:52, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Great, if you ever need me to "grease the wheels" again, let me know. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 01:54, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Psikxas

Hi Jayron32. You always guide me what to do next..so after this experience here from karheim and after another bad one similar to this,

after reviewing shoei, Schuberth, Suomy ... tell me :

1. what makes the above article notable? Why references to official websites ONLY make these articles here "reliable", and whatever i create dont? Are all these articles based to official articles "reliable" and mine isnt?

2. arent these pages based ONLY on companies' official website for refference ? why, even if they are not as you ask "independent of the company itself", can be on mainspace, but mine cant?

I can put hundrend of articles here, which are based to companies site ONLY...i searched for such articles on wikipedia, and based on these, i tried to create mine. I thought that articles in mainspace follow some rules in order to stay there, but its not enough i suppose...

Cause i made the mistake and argued with an admin,which i even do not know and have nothing personal..i even said thinks for him i dont mean always and im sorry...after all this, i feel "undesirable" here :(((....for real.. Psikxas (talk) 16:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

As you probably can see, ive started another article about lazer helmets...And has been deleted too...Even if i could provide sources from newspapers, from UK government etc based on the experience i gained from you and from karheim...

As you can see, nobody has written about shoei, Schuberth, Suomy,showing that outside of itself and Misplaced Pages, people have written about it extensively, showing that both above articles and companies are NOT notable, but these articles are here!!! Isnt?

I could add refferences that my lazer_helmet article is about a notable company, many more reference than other helmet manufacturers i mentioned, but article deleted! Isnt it unfair or not?

Or dont you think sharp.gov.uk , goverment UK organization is notable?

Or even Motorcycle_News? As and admin, you can better than me find out how many articles point to this newspaper as a refference! just see this lazer helmets - MCN about lazer helmets

Adding this to what happened to my first article, what i can now understand is that you are 100% right about karheim, i think it is unfair that my other article about lazer deleted , and last that many many many many articles in wikipedia are not notable, are not based on external sources, but they are here cause likely or unlikely another admin didnt acted. I accept that..i have not luck ..xexe...

But you do perfect your job, so, hope future articles will fall under your attention and will not appear such injustice cause other admins didnt do they job. Exactly, to be honest, i was reviewng articles i mentioned to you,thought that if they were here, similar articles should also. Didnt thought that these other articles shouldn be there, but nobody mentioned them. My mistake was that based on these i argued with other admin..anyway... Thanks for any advice Jayron32 :) Psikxas (talk) 18:46, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

• Oh..and not to forget..cause admin Scheinwerfermann had concerns if article could be used for promotional reasons...and after all these i dont know if im willing to continue my job, and maybe argue with someone else in the future, i m not here for such a reason. So, is there i way to mark with these "pink" notices above my articles in my userspace, till or if i decide to improve them? so as nobody thinks im abusing even userspace. Just dont know how to mark it. Thanks... Psikxas (talk) 19:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Neptune's user talk

Just leave him be. There's no problem with him blanking, or insulting us while no one is listening, for that matter.--chaser (talk) 22:16, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Bill Szymczyk

Hello! Your submission of Bill Szymczyk at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Smallman12q (talk) 00:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Formal Mediation for Sports Logos

As a contributor to Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/RFC_on_use_of_sports_team_logos, you have been included in a request for formal mediation regarding the subject at Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Use of Sports Logos. With your input and agreement to work through mediation, it is hoped we can achieve a lasting solution. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Marble Hill Ministerial Correspondence

May 27 you were able to comment on Is a Freedom of Information request OR? What was not specifically asked was this

DEC Ministerial correspondence is outgoing and thus to the Friends of Marble Hill President Incorporated under the Friends of Parks Inc thus answerable to we the people via OCBA Office of Consumer and Business Affairs, not an "Email", not "interdepartmental" correspondence. Could specific comment be made on this reference as a reliable source?Mifren (talk) 01:51, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the updated information. Given I've actually altered the original jpg image from the former Friends of Marble Hill President by removing identifying private contact information that had been released as a hardcopy to South Australian Parliamentarian Hon Michelle Lensink MLC through Freedom Of Information does that altered jpg image become my copyright?Mifren (talk) 02:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Bill Szymczyk

On June 2, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bill Szymczyk, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Dravecky (talk) 02:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Guessing and changing birthdate guy (s)

Somebody change Grace Mugabe's birthyear from 1964 to 1965, and didn't cite. another guy changed Paul Kagame's birthdate from October 23 to 27 unsource statement. I doubt it is the same guy (happene on 11/08/2008). The guy who mess Grace Mugabe up happen on 2/19/2009 when source said 1965 this guy changed to 1964. 206.255.186.75 have 7 warnings on his talkpage but only white flag warning, not destroying encyclopedia, just adding lies on. That is frustrationg for me to see who did it, I ask this person to stop changing humans birthdates unless you have a very valid source.--69.229.240.187 (talk) 22:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

• Is this the same guy who add lies to those two articles. If he is not the same guy, then I calm down. The thing is I don't want to sit down on computer and see who mess it up, and see if the person add is lies. It is just a waste of time to investigate these things.--69.229.240.187 (talk) 23:08, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

• • I have no idea. If you are concerned, you could try bringing the issue up at WP:ANI and see if other admins can comment. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 23:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Question

Hi, in the past, a contributor was asked an explanation why he added a {{primarysources}} tags to various articles. After a summary answer, he dodged any question to respond in depth about this. Only after a thread on ANI, he participated shortly in a discussion (consolidated here), but removed subsequent queries from his talk page . Given the closing comment on the discussion and the subsequent addition of the same tag to further articles , what do you suggest? -- User:Docu

Just stopping in to say Docu (talk · contribs) is lying now, as he did then, about my non-responsiveness over that (non)issue. I provided diffs demonstrating the lie in the old AN/I thread. Docu asked a question, Docu got an answer, multiple times. Sorry to get between you two, but I won't stand for more deception about me from this user.Bali ultimate (talk) 12:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

You two obviously do not like eachother. Please do not continue your personal battles on my talk page. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:47, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

The core issue is not the use of primary sources in all cases, it looks here that it is the use of primary sources in articles where such sources are being used to verify that the subject is notable. It is very difficult to use primary sources to verfify notability, as defined at WP:N, since usually primary sources, by definition, lack outside, independent commentary on the subject. For example, a copy of a the text of a treaty between two nations may be an important source to link to in an article about relations between those two countries, however the text of the treaty itself cannot be used to prove the relationship meets the definition of notability. Why? Because it contains no indication that any independent reliable source has written about the treaty, and thus the criteria clearly spelled out at WP:N have not been met. It would be akin to using a bands MySpace page to prove the band notable; the source is useful in certain instance, but not for the purpose that it is trying to be used. If valid secondary sources (that is, outside commentary on the relationship) were added to the article then the objections to this sort of use of primary sources whould evaporate. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 12:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

If you look closely at {{primary sources}}, this doesn't bring up the question of notability. The question is about reliability. It adds the article to Category:Articles lacking reliable references without any reason. -- User:Docu

That is fine and well, and is a completely different issue. This issue seems clearly part of a larger conflict over the general suitibility of "x-y relations" articles at Misplaced Pages, especially in cases where the notability of individual "x-y relations" articles is called into question. The "primary sources" tag and its intricacies seems like a minor point given the larger context of this conflict. If this were not part of a larger issue, I may agree with you, but at this point, it seems like the change of locus of this conflict from the "x-y relations" issue to this relatively minor side issue seems like an intentional misdirection. I would really suggest that before we start dickering about the use of that tag we instead solve the main conflict. Come up with a consensus manner on dealing with the "x-y relations" article rather than edit warring over some esoteric tag, expecially since such edit war is merely a proxy for the main conflict. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 13:00, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

There are various problems to be resolved and I think this solves a point that was brought up repeatedly. There isn't really any edit waring involved (the tag is still on Nauru – United States relations), but we can just observe that Bali ultimate persists in this and in one way or the other this should be addressed. -- USer:Docu

I don't want to belittle either of your concerns in this conflict, so we must take it that he has good-faith reasons to believe that the sourcing of the article needs work, and that the article benefits from some notice asking editors to improve the referencing. That is the only conclusion I can reach about using a tag like that. If that is the wrong specific tag, then perhaps you could propose a different cleanup tag which would better inform editors how to improve the article? Asking that someone not leave any notification that the article has grave shortcomings does not seem like the best solution to this small problem. However, as I said above, this little issue reads merely like an extension of the larger conflict. This is not about the "primary sources" tag. This is about the dispute over the suitibility of some of the "x-y relations" articles, and if a compromise solution was worked out which could establish exactly how one can objectively decide which "x-y relations" articles belong at Misplaced Pages and which do not, then this stupid tag issue would disappear entirely. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:05, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Jayron, sorry to be here again but since he is asking your help for a "problem" he apparently has with me, here's my thinking in a nutshell (so you don't have to speculate about my intent). The full text of the tag in question says: "This article needs references that appear in reliable third-party publications. Primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject are generally not sufficient for a Misplaced Pages article. Please add more appropriate citations from reliable sources" (emphasis mine). I add this tag to articles that rest entirely on primary sources affiliated with the subject, which is its intended purpose. If he has a problem with the tag, maybe he should MFD it or otherwise seek a change to our sourcing policies. As to the meta dispute -- on an article by article basis, sourcing needs to be found and specific relationship evaluated. Some of these relations are amply supported as notable via multiple non-trivial mentions in reliable sources (China-US relations Australia-East Timor relations etc) and others are not. Some of the articles so-tagged may be salvageable, some are not salvageable. The tag itself is a useful and appropriate tool for readers and editors (and a warning that the article itself hinges on the PR of those involved in the relationship itself).Bali ultimate (talk) 18:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

This issue can't be resolved if the various contributors don't participate responsibly. As the tagging issue was raised in the past, Bali ultimate was already reminded by three administrators about this, he is likely to apply the same tactics to other articles. It's just as constructive as his intervention on this talk page

There is always the stub tag to add to indicate that the article needs expansion (It is already there though). In the sample case, it was noted that "primary sources are used reasonably & responsibly. Complaining about their use is tendentious editing, & could lead to sanctions for disrupting Misplaced Pages". As this is applies to the new article as well, this should be stopped. -- User:Docu

I am not reading Bali ultimate's objection as saying that the primary sources do not belong in the article. I am reading his objection saying that the article needs additional independent sourcing. The primary sources can be used reasonably and responsibly, and still be inadequate for the referencing standards at Misplaced Pages. Your assertion that the primary sources are relevent to the articles is not inherently in conflict with his assertion that the primary sources are insufficient for the articles. The tag does not ask that the sources are removed, it asks for additional independent references. I cannot find fault with anyone who requests independent sourcing for an article, and neither can I find fault with including the primary sources where appropriate. You two need to realize that these ideas are not what is in conflict here. It is you two that are taking a personal conflict and creating a problem where one does not exist. I cannot find innocence on either party here. You two must work out this personal conflict, or it will continue to manifest itself in unproductive ways as it is doing right here. Neither one of you comes off as particularly "right" here. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:36, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

The tag doesn't specify this. Besides, the discussion yielded that the sources - primary or not - had been used reasonably in the article and are reliable. -- User:Docu