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This page has archives. Sections older than 1 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III.

What's with the blocking of the accounts of deceased users?

This is what I'm worried about. I've seen this on their ] page and find that they were indefinitely blocked! Any guidelines referring to this matter?--One moment, Reciever | Thank you for your instructions. 14:11, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think this should be thought of as disrespectful in any way. If anything, I suppose the motivation is likely to be to ensure that the passwords aren't cracked and then these accounts used in a way that is disrespectful. I don't know if there are guidelines or discussions about this.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 16:06, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Another point is that the computer belonging to a deceased Wikipedian is likely to be used by another person (possibly after the computer is sold), and the computer may contain details of the Misplaced Pages account allowing an unauthorized person to impersonate the former Wikipedian. Johnuniq (talk) 10:46, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

You could be right.

On a completely unrelated note, can I ask users to add the number of colons?--One moment, Reciever | Thank you for your instructions. 01:31, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

• We don't want to risk them coming back. A group of brain-eating zombie Wikipedians only sounds silly until you encounter it. HalfShadow (talk) 17:56, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Jimbo

User:Juliancolton may have retired. You need to do what any pusher worth his salt would do. Go over there and get high with him on Misplaced Pages again. Before the say-no-to-Wiki folks succeed in performing an intervention with him and he gets too high a count on his days of Wiki sobriety.↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 21:56, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow, Mr Wales hasn't editing this page in going on a fornight. You think he and Julian are in a program together?↜ (‘Just M E ’here , now) 22:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Does Jimbo edit wikipedia ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by IWantToSayNo (talk • contribs) 21:13, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

You can see his contributions here .The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Arbcom RFC

Hi Jimmy. fyi, there is an RFC about the structure of Arbcom 2010: Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Arbitration Committee 2. Your unique perspective/views would be a valuable addition to the RFC. --John Vandenberg 22:21, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

WikiLit

Have you had a chance to check out Andrew Dalby's book The World and Misplaced Pages? Is it any good? ChildofMidnight (talk) 05:09, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I haven't read it yet. But he's offered to send me a copy, and so I expect that I shall.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:48, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

A nightmare for Jimbo Wales

He awakens to learn:

• Somebody has shaved off his mustache & beard
  
• Myself & friends, show up at his house, to give him a 'we're not worthy bow, for a total 24hrs straight
  
• We have a rowdy Misplaced Pages convention at his place, for an entire year. GoodDay (talk) 20:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Lolwut?--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 09:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Admins taking drugs

Is this acceptable? It isn't only that they are on a highly dangerous drug, but that they are also editing while on it really bothers me, especially when they have ops. Is there any applicable guideline, standard, or tradition regarding this? Ottava Rima (talk) 16:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Not taking into account that "is on acid" is most probably used figuratively in the sense of "very weird", it's hardly Misplaced Pages's place to dictate what intoxicants editors can partake in. Or, for that matter, even assess whether they are. — Coren  16:14, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Without commenting on my opinion, I think you are wrong about the figurative bit Coren: . Prodego 16:15, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Not figurative. Chillum has also admitted to having a secret second account. You are not supposed to edit while drunk or using drugs, and I am concerned about what kinds of things may have happened. This user is an admin with ops, and admin are supposed to be neutral and have fair judgment. How do we know if a block didn't happen because of drug use or an unblock for the same? Ottava Rima (talk) 16:17, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

My original point remains, though. Enforcing random drug laws isn't what we're here for. Either the editor edits within policy in which case it's not an issue, or they do not in which case the reason is immaterial. — Coren  16:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

It's also possible that we have encountered an admin with a sense of humor. (Don't mind me. It's the drugs. Mostly caffeine at this point.) Antandrus (talk) 16:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

@OR: Besides, how do we know anything isn't done for the "wrong reason"? That someone makes a block or unblock because of a distraction in Real Life, for instance, or because they are tired? You can't. And there is no point in doing so even if we could: either the action was correct or it was not. — Coren  16:24, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Coren, drug laws do not matter as alcohol is legal. However, users are told not to edit while drunk, and drunk admin are bad. Acid is far more potent than alcohol in altering the ability to perceive correctly. I am asking about an -admin- having the ability to use admin abilities while taking drugs regularly as he has admitted. I am also asking for someone to check his secret account to ensure that there was no drug related impropriety. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:26, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Plus, Coren, this is a major PR nightmare. A reporter can easily attribute any problem that Chillum has been involved in to drug use, and there are hundreds just from this year. Chillum has been involved in a lot of controversial matters, for good or for bad. This compromised judgment is just the tip of the iceberg, especially in conjunction with his second secret account. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

• Let's not blow this out of proportion; IIRC, it would be difficult for anyone under the influence of LSD to be even able to find enough keys to block or delete. I happily confess that I edit under the influence of drugs, and I find it helps to do so. Please stash the moral indignation unless and until it becomes an issue. Rodhullandemu 16:32, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

He could find the keys to type up a message saying he was high. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:35, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

LSD takes about half an hour to kick in fully. Rodhullandemu 16:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Were you a witness to these events? Can you verify that he took acid within a time frame that would allow him not to be high at the time of posting? Ottava Rima (talk) 16:56, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Franz Kafka, thou should'st be living now! Rodhullandemu 16:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I hope you realize that in posting that, you have exposed your argument as non-existent. Ottava Rima (talk) 17:11, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

• Aside from all the very good reasons provided above to avoid overblown moral outrage, there is no indication that Chillum even edited while 'under the influence'. He made no edits between the placement of the notice and its removal . Based on the comments posted by Ottava Rima and Malleus Fatuorum in response to this trivial, teapot tempest, Chillum is not the editor whose conduct we need to be concerned about. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:42, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

He has a secondary account and has admitted such. Do you have knowledge of what that secondary account is? If so, provide the name to verify your statement that no edits have been made under it. If not, please strike it as being incorrect. Ottava Rima (talk) 16:45, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

If you believe someone is using a second account abusively, you're at the wrong place. Otherwise, that's immaterial. If you believe that Chillum has taken problematic actions (regardless of why he did so) that didn't involve a separate account, you're still at the wrong place. If neither of these are true, why do you care? Seraphimblade 16:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

It is never the wrong place to ask a question. That was clear from the very top. Please don't make such claims and post off topic simply because you disagree with the question. Disruption like that is never appropriate and only means that you recognize that Chillum has acted inappropriately. Ottava Rima (talk) 17:11, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I've done some of my best coding while stoned, it is actually quite relaxing. Munchies are a problem though, as chip crumbs are a bitch to get out of a keyboard. Then there's the issues with memory, um...what were we talking about? Tarc (talk) 17:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

The only thing that counts should be the editing output, not the mental state of the editor. If the editor does bad edits, we can revert/block/ban him regardless of his mental state. For what I know, you may all well be a Chinese room or a Boltzmann brain , but that's irrelevant. --Cyclopia 17:33, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Why so serious? I think admins should be allowed to be crack heads just as long as it doesn’t impair there vital duties.--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 17:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Mental state is 100% necessary for using admin ops. We have "trust" for a reason. Ottava Rima (talk) 17:54, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Is it silly season so soon? This is the most goofball non-issue on Misplaced Pages all day. November 1 must be the new April 1. If this is a joke, I think we've got it. If not, the thread is just a personal attack on Chillum and ought to be drawn to a close. On Misplaced Pages everyone is judged on the strength of their edits, not what they do in the privacy of their home, or what process their brain has been through to produce those edits. Indignation that somewhere a Wikipedian is doing something illegal, or that drug-taking Wikipedians are a threat to the project, is too farfetched to be worth any serious response. It may be unwise and undignified at a personal level, by some standards of decorum, to announce or joke about one's own drug-taking. But in other circles it's just fine, and we're not in any position to judge. - Wikidemon (talk) 17:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

If the secondary account displayed unusual conduct while under the influence, I tend to think that account would be blocked or banned if the influence was problematic. If no one knows which account that is, as seems to be the case, then there is no apparent evidence that it has been used while the typer were intoxicated, and we would more or less have to AGF that it isn't. I can and do see some problems with Chillum admitting to having two accounts, and not indicating what they are, but that is a separate matter. thankgodcaffiencedoesn'tcountasbeinganintoxicatingdrugIdon'tknowhowI'dbeabletodoanythingwithoutit. :)John Carter (talk) 17:51, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

AGF only goes until there is evidence. ArbCom has the right to know about secondary accounts to verify that there is no impropriety, so an Arb could check to verify that there was no such problems. Ottava Rima (talk) 17:54, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I have already told you that if arbcom wants to know this information, they only need to ask me(they have not asked). Chillum 18:11, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Agreed on that point - it's discouraged for anyone, particularly admins, to have secondary accounts. Although we've gone back and forth regarding whether this is a requirement or just an admonition, admins really ought to disclose and register their secondary accounts with a checkuser / arb to make sure they're on the up-and-up. Otherwise, way too much drama and potential for abuse. Other than perhaps the shared connection to a countercultural mindset, I don't see what socking has to do with drugs. - Wikidemon (talk) 17:58, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

(EC) So go ask them to, if you're concerned. Seraphimblade 17:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

(ec) OR, you have come here to Jimbo's talk page to publicise something that you yourself admit might become "a major PR nightmare". The original edit may well have been a joke. You pushed very hard towards getting it out of the twilight zone, but without success. We still don't know whether Chillum was just speaking figuratively and, upon being confronted by a hysterical editor pulled that editor's leg; or whether he was simply describing fact. It is not in Misplaced Pages's interest to know which is true, and it is not in Misplaced Pages's interest to treat Chillum's statement as a credible statement of fact on the single most effective page of the Wiki for getting such things into the papers.

From the other reactions on Chillum's talk page it should be clear to you by now that there is no general consensus to be hysterical about such things. Right things to do in this situation include contacting Arbcom privately, and they include making a general policy proposal on drug use by editors and admins and on writing about drug use. They do not include deliberately stirring drama in close proximity to the event. Please back off. Hans Adler 18:14, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like you guyz need to lighten up with some weed mon. I got the shit on my Talk page. Have a party!--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 18:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Weed on your talk page? OK, I will bring something that should help. Herbicidal Maniac 18:41, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Hans, it has already been proven by his multiple references that he was not talking figuratively. Please read all comments before responding in such a manner. Your use of "hysterical" in such a light is incivil and inappropriate. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:23, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore, consensus on his talk page? That is not only an inappropriate claim, but it is factually wrong. A few friends making disruptive claims about a direct action has nothing to do with appropriate admin actions. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:25, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I have read all the comments here and on Chillum's talk page. Has it spread anywhere else? What I have read is totally consistent with both of the scenarios that I have described. There are subcultures in which use of strong illegal drugs is considered stupid but not taboo and people may well use formulations such as "I am on acid" to express a state of mind that might be induced by entirely legal means such as falling in love. It seems clear to me that when Malleus fatuorum contacted Chillum on his talk page, Chillum primarily got the message "I disapprove of your relaxed attitude to drugs" and reacted to that message. We have no way of knowing whether his response was a statement of fact or an attempt to irritate Malleus further. His earlier response to Beeblebrox, which references "I like to chill out and smoke the herb" suggests to me that he wasn't serious. You need not agree, but it's a fact that we simply can't know what he meant. The same is true for his 16:03 response to Malleus: A paragraph with very nearly (note that "about me dropping" doesn't contain a verb) a confession, undermined by a silly trailing sentence, followed by "Seriously though, ...". And the last paragraph is a plain contradiction to what he says elsewhere ("the herb" – assuming he means cannabis – is in fact a class C drug in Canada).

Another indication that you are not sufficiently cool to read properly is your misunderstanding concerning consensus. I said that there is no consensus to be hysterical. That's clearly not the same as there being a consensus to be not hysterical. Which is why I proposed that you do something to work towards such a consensus, instead of trying to enforce a nonexistent consensus and create a "PR nightmare" on your way.

PS: I hate having to explain jokes, especially when I am not entirely sure they are jokes. Hans Adler 20:09, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

PPS: I just realised how strong an indication Chillum's (a confessed cannabis user's) claim to be using only class A drugs is that he was engaged in serious leg-pulling. Please compare:

• "Oh, and all the drugs I do are class A, I have no time for the b grade crap"
• "I like to chill out and smoke the herb." (Notes: I found no specific connection between the mysterious (to me) slang term "chill out" and acid. He explicitly referred to this line today. )

Hans Adler 20:27, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

"of the scenarios that I have described." The scenarios you have described are not reflective of the reality, and you are making it seem like Chillum has a long history of making statements that are misleading and inappropriate. As such, your claims to protect him are making him look even more disruptive and untrustworthy. The appropriate response, if you were correct, is that Chillum should have stated "it was a joke". Instead, he has sparked a long dispute that has disrupted 4 different talk pages. People are normally blocked for such things, especially when others have stated that it was a joke and the original person refuses to state it was a joke, thus ending the dispute. As such, I expect that someone acting on your words would instantly block Chillum for disruption. So, what you have effectively done is show that Chillum is a disruptive user while trying to defend him from being a disruptive user. Next time you defend a friend, try a better tactic that doesn't turn him into what appears to be a massive troll. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:26, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I concur with Hans' comment a little further above. So let's put a fact-tag behind Chillum's "drug" statement. *smile* The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 18:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Seriously folks, reacting hysterically to someone using drugs is bad, it can really mess people up. You might start out thinking it is innocent experimentation and that you can stop anytime, but before you know it you can take over your life. Chillum 18:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Hey Chillum, maybe you should share a little bit with Ottava. He could do with some mellowing. :) Crafty (talk) 19:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Our job here is to write an encyclopedia not to enforce the drug laws wherever we are located and, even here, this thread is a disgrace. Thanks, SqueakBox talk contribs 19:31, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

No one has stated that we are talking about drug laws, SqueakBox. Before you make such incivil attacks, please make sure to read the discussion. This is about operating an administrator account with a history of disruptive and inappropriate blocks overturned by consensus while admitting to long term drug use by drugs that are Class A and thus have a major effect on judgment. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:52, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Now its me making the uncivil attacks? Sigh. Isnt that a case of projection? And what apart from the law are we talking about; its none of your damn business what people do in their own homes and your using this so-called forum to harass people is a disgrace; and what do you mean class A drug? You declare that this has nothing to do with drug laws and then go about class A drugs, presumably that refer to laws where you are located but do not refer to wikipedia. This user is beiong very disruptive and aggressive. Thanks, SqueakBox talk contribs 20:32, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Geez Ottava you will have to point out this "history of disruptive and inappropriate blocks overturned by consensus". My actions have generally stood up to scrutiny, not sure what you are referring to. Chillum 20:00, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Chillum, are you seriously going to claim that? Moni3 has already asked if you were currently high because of earlier claims that were similar. Other people echoed this view. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:12, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

long term? Rodhullandemu 19:55, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, long term. Chillum has had a lot of blocks overturned or other admins questioning his decisions for a very long time. Moni3 asked if Chillum was on drugs right now because of his highly questionable actions just today. Ottava Rima (talk) 20:12, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Ottava, I already asked you to substantiate these claims about my actions being regularly overturned, you responded with incredulity, now you are repeating these claims. Where are those blocks you speak of? Provide evidence or stop making baseless claims. Chillum 21:14, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Ottawa, this gets more and more pathetic as it drags out. It is clearly not going to go anywhere, so can we just cut the vamping and move on? I'll have a few tokes for you tonight. Tarc (talk) 20:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Since when do you speak for Jimbo? Jimbo has not responded, so you cannot say this has gone no where. This was a question for him. Why are you so eager to derail it unless you believe that there is impropriety? Ottava Rima (talk) 20:12, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

*Sigh* Excirial wanders off to find a truckload of icecubes. Excirial 20:22, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Remember to Keep cool during discussions. Overheated machinery tends to break down. :)

Unfortunately i was out of dove's, so i guess a cool drink will have to do for now. The temperature is a bit hot around here, so take a good glass of lemonade with a few ice cubes to cool down, and then resume talking. Nothing better then a cool resfreshment to cool down a heated discussion!. Excirial 20:06, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Honestly ask yourself this people-What would Jimbo think of this?--Sooo Kawaii!!! ^__^ (talk) 20:49, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

• Ottawa. Nobody is making "incivil attacks" but you by taking this way to serious and out of proportion. You really should try to relax and let it go. There is no need at all for a "crusade" here.The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 21:07, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Calling something pathetic and other such claims are incivil. Now, the name is clearly Ottava. If you cannot get that right, why are you responding? And why do you seek to defend something that is clearly inappropriate? We have standards that say not to edit while intoxicated. Ottava Rima (talk) 21:28, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Uh, sorry for not using my reading glasses all the time.The Magnificent Clean-keeper (talk) 21:38, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Talking of ice...

I think the title of this section is not entirely appropriate. I suggest a pole (not sure whether it should be a North or South pole) to decide between the following two alternative titles:

1. Admin making inappropriate references to drug use
2. Multiple admins demonstrably and repeatedly abusing their privileges as a result of longterm abuse of illegal drugs of the most dangerous kind

Any preferences? Hans Adler 20:33, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Can we dance against the pole? Crafty (talk) 20:40, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Let's take a poll on Crafty's idea first! Bielle (talk) 20:41, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

I would prefer that all users, not just admins, conduct themselves with dignity and professionalism at all times. Certain kinds of references to illegal drug use would not be appropriate in any normal workplace, and are therefore similarly are not appropriate for Misplaced Pages. At the same time, I see no need to get too up in arms about a joke, an error, or similar. If there's an ongoing pattern of behavior which appears to be disruptive or which would tend to reflect negatively on the project, then it could be addressed - preferably with a minimum of drama and hand-wringing. But based on my experience with hundreds of Wikipedians all around the world, we are in no danger of being overrun by drug fiends or anything. :-) --Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:20, 1 November 2009 (UTC)