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Mercedes CLK 63 Black series

I added a time for Mercedes CLK 63 Black series. As Clarkson said in his 2008 film - Thriller, it took it 1 minute 26 seconds to get around the track.

Corner Names

I think the names of the corners on the diagram need updating, as it is missing a few. The names can be found here: Top Gear Test Track. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.41.56.193 (talk) 21:22, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Enzo

There are two lap times for the Enzo (one of which was in the wet) but in series 5, episode 2, which was the only episode where a lap time was set, there was only only one lap and it was in the dry. Where is this wet Enzo lap coming from? Chaparral2J (talk) 15:32, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

F1 leader board separate?

Top Gear keep the F1 lap times on a separate board. Should we not? Mark83 (talk) 10:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why we should really. They are Stars in a Reasonably Priced Car after all. We noted that Top Gear puts them on a separate list, that's enough. -mattbuck 12:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Track condition

The use of references (appearing as numbers) to describe wet tracks etc. is very unclear. Would symbols or just W or VW - i.e. Wet or Very Wet not be much clearer? Mark83 (talk) 10:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Unofficial times

Now this page is about the track and not Top Gear as a programme would there be any objections if I included a section detaling times set without BBC sponsorship? Meio (talk) 12:37, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Such as? Mark83 (talk) 13:18, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=top+gear+track+record&btnG=Google+Search&meta= Caterham CSR 260 and Ultima GTR 720. Now I just need to sift through the thousands of Google hits to find the more reliable references. Meio (talk) 12:00, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I would say no, times such as the Ultima GTR shouldn't be included. The Stig didn't drive, so you aren't comparing like with like. See what others think. Mark83 (talk) 12:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

How do you know 'The Stig' wasn't driving? That would require you to know who has driven a lap in the white suit and who was driving for Ultima. Ultima seem to imply that their driver might have performed Stig duties in the past. If you are suggesting that The Stig character wasn't driving then you'd be correct but this is irrelevant as this page is not about The Stig or Top Gear, it is about the track, and the Caterham and Ultima have set times around that track and so should be mentioned on this page.Meio (talk) 08:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Not in Power Laps though. -mattbuck 11:16, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

As for knowing it wasn't The Stig. I can't totally agree that "this page is not about The Stig or Top Gear" -- if there was no Top Gear there would be no track at Dunsfold! However I wouldn't have an objection to a new section as Meio suggests - similar to "non qualifying lap times." Mark83 (talk) 11:21, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, so a section under the "non-qualifying times" section describing how some (a couple so far), having a poor relationship with the BBC, have gone and set their own times will be included as soon as I can find good independant references. Oh, and like I suggested The Stig is a fictional character the rights to whom are presumably copyrighted by the BBC so no company setting times at Dunsfold without BBC sponsorship will use The Stig, but that is not to say that they couldn't have been using a driving consultant who has played the part of The Stig at some point in the past. If you read between the lines in Ultima's own promotional coverage of their lap they seem to be suggesting this. This is why I feel that you shouldn't automatically assume it is not a like for like comparison with the BBC sponsored laps. The Caterham lap has less coverage so it is difficult to tell if those that set the lap were striving for concordance with the BBC laps. Maybe I should indicate these thoughts in the section, but that smacks of original research.Meio (talk) 17:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Your whole argument is based on original research!! Your above comment involves the lines "presumably" "that is not to say that they couldn't" "read between the lines." You'll have to explain yourself more clearly, because your 17:09, 23 January 2008 comment seems 0% fact, 100% opinion/original research. Mark83 (talk) 00:49, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I missed another big POV/OR: "....having a poor relationship with the BBC" Mark83 (talk) 00:51, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Like I said, the perspective that Ultima were using a driver who has played The Stig in the past is original research (it was Phil Keen for all you Stig candidate spotters http://www.keenmotorsport.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=36), however the fact is that Ultima report having a poor relationship with the producers of Top Gear http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/laprecord.html. OK, so lets have a look at the facts before I make this new section. Ultima report a bad relationship with the Top Gear production team. The motive for the Dunlop Injection sponsored Caterham lap is unreported and unknown. The Stig is a fictional character. The driver of the Caterham was Rob Jenkinson http://www.injection.tv/site.php?domain=uk . The driver of the Ultima is not officially revealed. The Ultima factory are at pains to point out that their lap was independantly monitored and timed by a body called Plans Motorsport. Are these facts agreed?Meio (talk) 11:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd be OK with including the time in a new section as was agreed a while ago. However don't include comments about a "poor relationship" - because despite your quotes provided it is still OR. It seems likely from them that a poor relationship exists - but it is neither explained why or certain & verifiable. Mark83 (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not OR to state that Ultima feel that their product is being ignored, because they carp on about it so much, the question then is to whether this carping should frame the unofficial status of the lap time in the article. Meio (talk) 14:52, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

No it's not OR to state that Ultima feel that their product is being ignored - that's not what I said. I said leave out the "poor relationship with the BBC" bit. Mark83 (talk) 18:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I would say being ignored was a type of poor relationship, but I'll certainly be careful how I phrase it.Meio (talk) 12:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

That's a fair point - but just put in one of the quotes "despite repeated attempts...." -- don't analyse it because that's when we can very quickly veer into OR. Mark83 (talk) 12:39, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. Comments? Meio (talk) 21:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

OK with me. Mark83 (talk) 21:51, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Seconded. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 05:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the BAE entry requires a little further comment or explanation, it is a kind of strange thing to have on a car test track. 203.129.39.88 (talk) 10:57, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Prodrive P2 wasn't thrown off the board

I was of the understanding that the Non-Qualifying Board was for "cars" that were tested, then unceremoniously thrown off for reasons stated by the presenters (and the two "cars" that were tested "unofficially" by other parties not related to Top Gear). So when I saw the Prodrive P2 there, I re-checked the episode in particular (Series 8 Episode 5; 4 June 2006) and nowhere did either Jeremy or Richard state that the can did not qualify to be on the board. Only that Jeremy lamenting that Prodrive can't be bothered to produce it. So tell me, unless I missed it somewhere in the show, where the car was taken off and a reason stated.--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 09:49, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, can anyone show me undeniable proof that Clarkson removed the P2 from the board or mention whether or not the P2 did not qualify for the board? I reviewed the episode, and he does state that Prodrive will not make the car, however, he did not throw the magnet off the board, which the show usually does for non-qualifying cars and never said it was disqualified from the board. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 12:07, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

GT-R semi-protection

Given today's rash of anons adding the unsourced lap time for the car (and even external reporting/linkage from Autoblog), I've semi-protected the article for 48 hours. When the block expires, the actual power lap should have been aired on the show. --Madchester (talk) 20:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, this is getting stupid....

Clarkson clearly says in the episode concerning the Koenigsegg CCX magnet time whatever is written with "Top Gear Wing." The fact that this is not reflected in the article is stupid and smacks of revisionism. Yes technically it's a Spoiler, but considering that the Episode came before the website, the Episode trumps any "revision" of the correct terminology. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 13:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe a piped link to spoiler (automotive) would help? Ged UK (talk) 13:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

293.xx.xxx.xx, not quite sure why a big deal is being made about this. It's technically a spoiler and a primary source has been found that verifies how Top Gear calls it. Although I will agree Clarkson's comment is a reliably cited source, it's just a primary source and Misplaced Pages has very strict policies on how to handle primary source info. Please read WP:PSTS for more info, but to sum it up, reliable secondary sources are what Misplaced Pages should always be built on. A primary and (way more importantly) many secondary sources are found using the proper terminology, therefore, it should be called as such. So the whole "Episode trumps the Website," may or may not be true, but, in your terms, secondary sources trump everything else as per WP:PSTS, period. I'll add in more secondary source citations right now. Thoughts? roguegeek (talk·cont) 17:51, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Stop putting words in my mouth, it is extremely insulting and offensive.--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 13:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

RIGHT: i have corrected it as that is how it is on the power laps bord and that is how it should be represented on heer. 86.168.10.71 (talk) 23:50, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I've just changed this slightly - the modified CCX is listed as "top gear wing" but the original is listed as "without spoiler". To keep consistency, I've changed the sans-spoiler entry to read "without top gear wing", as the primary source (Jezzer) refers to the modification as "The Top Gear Wing". a_man_alone (talk) 14:53, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Flags

I'm going to add national flags to the list of times. There's no particular reason for this; I just wanted to. It won't hurt, so there's no problem. This may prove controversial with some cars, but I'll use what wikipedia says as a guideline, assuming our fellow users have already done the legwork. Alex Holowczak (talk) 12:16, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I've just seen this now... Isn't that a overuse of the flags? Moreover it isn't accurate. I propose to took them out. Asendoh (talk) 21:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Lotus Exige - wrong lap time

The Lotus Exige (taken round the track in season 4 episode 1) has the wrong time posted on the Power Lap board.

The time Jeremy Clarkson says the car recorded is 1:26.9, but because of sloppy writing appears on the board as 1:26.4. To verify this information please review season 4 episode 1 at the 58min 48sec mark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.76.233 (talk) 18:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Changes to power board section

Removed flags per MOS:FLAG, changed times for SL55 AMG and Esprit V8 to time on website (time given in the episodes lacked decimals), changed time for Vauxhall VXR8 to the correct time of 1.31.3., moved some wrongly placed cars, removed the (I assume) tractors, and times for cars driven by Clarkson, Hammond and May as they shouldn't be part of the power board, slapped a {{cn}} on times not on the website so we know which cars should have footnotes on where they appeared, and completed <li>-tags. --aktsu  22:03, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Hold on, you expect a ton of reference marks for cars presented on the show? I'm all for references, but what your asking is too much. You might as well cite every car listed on the website!!--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 06:20, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I think we should have references for cars not on the website for verifiability. Besides, why don't they appear on the website if they're supposed to be part of the power board in the first place? People keep adding times to the board and if they're supposed to be part of it then a footnote mentioning where it appeared shouldn't be a problem... --aktsu  17:56, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Aktsu, unless we can cite a source they should not be there, most of them are easy enough, we just have to cite the episode they appeared in, the rest are on the top gear website itself so that is cited for all the rest. --Lemming64 22:55, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Added a few, but was unable to find the times for the Ferrari F430 Spider, Ariel Atom 1 220, Ford GT40, Mercedes CLK63 AMG Black Series, Mitsubishi Evo VIII MR FQ320 and the Ferrari 575M Maranello HGTC after checking the episodes they should have appeared in going by the episode list. Useful cite-template btw! --aktsu  23:40, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

http://tviv.org/Top_Gear/Power_Laps Perhaps we should take a cue from them and do a table like they do? But then again....3 columns worth?--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 01:57, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Right, raided the BBCWorldwide and Top Gear channels on Youtube, and added some references (3 of them). But i'm already getting annoyed at the load times, so if anyone else wants to take a stab, here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=BBCWorldwide&view=videos http://www.youtube.com/user/TopGear

Cheers. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 02:18, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Nice find on the tviv-wiki! Extremely useful. On including the episode in the table itself, the only major problem I see is having to now look up EVERY car not just the ones missing from the website - but that is kinda remedied by the tviv-wiki, so... Why not? Might have to experiment a bit to make it look good though. --aktsu  02:46, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Notability

What is the notability of this article? Top Gear is clearly notable but it's test track? all of the sources are primary except for two that are trivial and descriptive. Where are the secondary sources? even if it remains the article needs massive clean-up. The massive trivial lists of track times beggars belief. --Cameron Scott (talk) 18:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

• Some cleanup is probably not a bad idea. But overall, I think the article is around because the track and all the lap times from it are a significant piece of the show. I'd lean towards attempting to cleanup things and get some better sources before suggesting deletion. $0.02. DP76764 (Talk) 18:56, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

all the lap times from it are a significant piece of the show right but what's the significance in terms of notability or commentary beyond the show? Being notable in the show doesn't make it notable outside of that context. Why does it help our readers to under the concepts described to list *every time*? Those lists are for *fans* and we aren't writing for the benefit of fans. --Cameron Scott (talk) 19:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget about 100 different articles link to this page, quite often celebrity lap times are listed on their own pages and linked here as a reference. --Lemming64 21:47, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

and? people will make a wiki-link to anything - it means nothing (and indeed is explicitly irrelevant as wikipedia is not reliable source) , just 100 different notability people have appeared - like pebble mill, like the Jonathan Ross show - it adds to the notability of the main article, not this. --Cameron Scott (talk) 02:15, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I concur, it does add to the notability of the show. However, iirc, articles need not show their own notability if they are a fork of some other article. This is one such article. and you are completely wrong about notability - it's not inherited - what is notable about a timing board? fuck all. -mattbuck (Talk) 02:19, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes - but that's doesn't mean an article can contain any old trivial shite - we describe the power lap via prose and mention the top couple - we don't provide a leader board - who the fuck is that for? for general readers? really? I can see the fanboys are gathering - so I guess we'll head off to afd. --Cameron Scott (talk) 02:22, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

There is need to be so aggressive now is there. --Lemming64 02:28, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm just calling it as I see it - people involved in an article always think that normal rules don't apply because their article is "different" in some way - this is a fanboy article - it's not an article for general readers, which is our audience. --Cameron Scott (talk) 02:32, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• Tell that to the folks involved in TV like Family Guy and the Simpsons with their episode articles. How are they notable when I and a hundred of my closet friends don't watch it? Oh, and BTW, don't deleted huge amounts of text without consulting the talk page first. Minor edits okay, removing bad info sure, but removing an entire properly semi-referenced section? Not kosher.--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 11:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The Test Track is notable as there is no other (mostly) unbiased and consistent set of times/performance for automobiles currently. The track as noted (with cites) was designed with this specific aim in mind. This is why the test track times use the same driver when testing different times and the same car when testing different drivers. The track times here perform the same function as 0-60mph(0-100kph) times, a list of worlds largest buildings etc. It allows a clinical look at the relative performance abilities of various production cars. Therefore notable and useful in a manner separate and distinct to the show itself. Felixmeister (talk) 06:34, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah - so those are official stats - that's the purpose - great, so you can provide multiple third party reliable sources that indicate that? --Cameron Scott (talk) 11:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

This article exists because the size of Top Gear (current format) is such that it was necessary to break the article into multiple parts, as per WP:SUMMARY. Warren -talk- 07:29, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Nobody had provide anything sensible to explain why every time has to be listed just lots of hand waving. --Cameron Scott (talk) 11:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

And you haven't proven your case either, seeing that other articles do alot more egregious violations of Misplaced Pages policy than this article. Besides, the Misplaced Pages: Automotive group has one reason. And it's a guideline for virtually all the car articles across Misplaced Pages.--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 07:10, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I gave you one. Address it. Warren -talk- 08:10, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

We're still waiting. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 22:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Right, focus on cleanup of article now due to non-response of complainant. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 04:26, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

RIGHT

LEVE THE THE SECOND KONIGSES CCX WITH THE TOP GEAR WING ALONE (IF THERE IS ONE THING THAT WILL BE RIGHT IN WIKIPEDIA ITS THIS)

IN THE SHOW IT IS THE TOP GEAR WING

SO IT WILL BE THE TOP GEAR WING ENRY TIME IT IS MENTIONED

LEVE IT ALONE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.174.192 (talk) 23:33, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Questions about the -x- times???

Should the Avantine and Astra be part of the official timing boards? The rules of the board state that a car cannot be a modified version of a car, meaning the Avantine(heavily modified before catching fire) and the Police standard Astra (power enhanced) should be on the non qualifying boards. I know the Konegggsegg is modified as well, but they let it bend the rules like they did with JK on the SINRPC 82.19.1.50 (talk) 11:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Unless it hits the board (even if it is thrown off due to the Non-Qualifying rule) it doesn't count. Period. The Avantine will count seeing that Clarkson did slap it onto the board, but the Astra and the other cheap cars don't qualify. --293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 10:45, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Gallardo LP560

It was exactly the same time as the gt2, as mentioned in the episode after the one with the two. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.130.85.5 (talk) 07:02, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

star in a reasonably....

please check the table with the information in Kevin_McCloud and correct whichever is wrong.--80.142.177.165 (talk) 22:09, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Is there corroboration for the Ricky Gervais lap? He's not listed here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/celebritylaps.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.90.246 (talk) 01:57, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Quite. How does he get listed here when he's never appeared on the show? A hoax? --Davidcx (talk) 00:08, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I propose then that he get removed. I'll do it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bonobo4 (talk • contribs) 16:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Ferrari FXX

The Ferrari FXX is currently top of the Power Lap board and 5th of the non-qualifying cars. Clearly it is not road legal and should have been removed from the Power Lap board by the presenters - is this the only reason it is still on the board in this article?

Per WP:NOR, we only report on what happened on the show. Unless a reliable source questions the validity of the FXX on the Power Laps list, we can only go by what Top Gear has presented to us for the time being. They may change its placing in a future episode (or it may not). --Madchester (talk) 12:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Top gear removed it themselves in Eposide 2 of the current series and their website agrees. It got the full magnet throwing treatment on air. So it is not OR to discount it, in fact it would be OR to still include it in the powerlap section. --LiamE (talk) 13:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree, the program itself stated its lap did not count as per the show's own internal rules. AlexanderJBateman (talk) 14:32, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Challenges cars

Would it be a good idea for cars from challenges, (e.g. the Vauxhall Astra police car, the £100 cars, and the tractors to be in a seperate board but still with their times, like the non-classified section but called Challenge related cars or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bonobo4 (talk • contribs) 21:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

No. Misplaced Pages: Fancruft covers this. Also, we have Top Gear challenges. Leave that stuff off the article.--293.xx.xxx.xx (talk) 18:01, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Big mess in the top times (or am I wrong?)

I can't believe it could be wrong in so many items, so I better ask before I edit: The beginning of The Power Board section has quite a few different items when compared to, say, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvcw7lyPsEo time . That's just wrong, or am I missing something?

I can't actually see the video, but I don't believe it's an official Top Gear one. If it is, it's from several years ago, and so the lap board would likely have been updated since then. -mattbuck (Talk) 03:11, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't know how "official" the video is, but it is apparently a copy of the original TV footage and it's VERY unlikely if not impossible that is has been tampered in any way relevant to my point. According to its contents it's the episode from November 23 2008, so it's not exactly old. I am, of course, not talking about those items that were possibly added after the video has been made but only those that are still there. I honestly don't see how it could be updated afterwards in such a way that would produce the differences I see between the lap board cut in the video and what's in the article. But I may be wrong in that and that's why I write this. And yes, I admit now, it's not such a mess, it's just: 1)Zonda F convertible being mistaken for the Zonda Clubsport, 2)Veyron and Zonda times swapped 3)Zonda F (coupe) being mistaken for the Zonda F Roadster. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.188.85.57 (talk) 05:14, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Actual names on in joke names

The names off all the guest drivers must be the actuial name of the person and not the In-joke name people were goiven by the presenters, for what ever reason.--16:38, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

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