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Revision as of 07:54, 6 November 2010

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Senkaku Islands

When you remove information from articles, please, at a minimum, use an edit summary (that's the small box under the main editing box) to explain why you did so. In the case of such a contentious article like Senkaku Islands, it's especially important--so much so that a dramatic change of that nature should probably be discussed on the article's talk page before making the change. In any event, if you have some reason why you think those names should be removed that is consistent with Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines, please discuss at Talk:Senkaku Islands. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:49, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

I tried to extend you good faith by assuming you were unaware of Misplaced Pages policies. Let me make them abundantly clear now: you are attempting to make unilateral, highly contentious changes to a controversial article. You have been reverted several times already. You are now required to take the discussion to the article's talk page. If you continue to remove sourced comment without discussion, you will be engaging in what we call edit warring, the policy for which can be found at WP:Edit warring. Doing so will result in your account being temporarily blocked from editing. Please note that no one is saying that the changes you are suggesting are impossible, merely that you have now been shown that there is not consensus for those changes. Misplaced Pages operates on a collegial, consensus-building model, which requires that we talk with each other, not simply revert back and forth. Please immediately cease making those changes, or you will be reported for edit warring. If you have any questions about this policy, please feel free to ask me here. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:04, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

November 2010

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Senkaku Islands. Users who edit disruptively or refuse to collaborate with others may be blocked if they continue. In particular the three-revert rule states that making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period is almost always grounds for an immediate block. If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the talk page to discuss controversial changes. Work towards wording and content that gains consensus among editors. If unsuccessful then do not edit war even if you believe you are right. Post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If edit warring continues, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:10, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

There is no Chinese name in Senkaku Islands. It decides internationally. It is an invasion of China that gives a Chinese name to a Japanese territory.HighSpeed-X (talk) 00:14, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Please see the article's talk page--this is a huge issue that we are currently exploring. Obviously, China, Taiwan, and Japan disagree about who exactly owns these islands, and thus what their name should be. In fact, there's a whole separate article called Senkaku Islands dispute, that discusses the details of this argument. Now, if you're aware of some reliable sources that clearly states that international organizations have established any specific names for the islands, we'd love to hear about it. Of course, I'm almost 100% certain you won't find one, since if there were we wouldn't be having this debate. In any event, we now understand that you disagree with the way the article is written right now. It is now your responsibility, per Misplaced Pages editing policies, to bring those concerns to the article's talk page. Please note that just coming there and making claims based on your own opinions will not be helpful--instead, you'll need to present good evidence from reliable sources. While we already have a lot of evidence, any new, neutral evidence will certainly be helpful. In the meantime, please do not continue to remove content from the article without first achieving a consensus on the article's talk page. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:48, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Chinese name of Senkaku Islands doesn't exist in "United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea".HighSpeed-X (talk) 00:54, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

That convention does not define the English name of international use. Regardless of how I feel about your position, you have not edited according to policy. Despite being warned, you have continued to edit war on the page. As such, I have reported you to the WP:3RRN page to request that you temporarily be blocked. The only way that you will be able to avoid being blocked is to self-revert (to undo your own removal of the names), apologize for breaking the 3RR policy, and agree to discuss the issue on the talk page. Even then, it will be up to the patrolling admin whether or not to block you. I very much understand how important this issue is in the real world, but in order for Misplaced Pages to work, we have to work together to make pages that are neutral and match reliable sources. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:12, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

No international legal grounds exist in a Chinese name of Senkaku Islands. You must show persuasive grounds. HighSpeed-X (talk) 01:17, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Think again. You misconstrue burden in our Misplaced Pages context. We understand that your edit is congruent with the Japanese government's position as cited here -- Netherlands Institute for the Law of the Sea (NILOS). (2000). International Organizations and the Law of the Sea, p. 108., p. 108, at Google Books

However, this does not bring an end to discussion in this venue. Please think carefully about how best to proceed. --Tenmei (talk) 01:33, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

It ends if international legal grounds are shown. HighSpeed-X (talk) 01:45, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

This is your last warning; the next time you vandalize Misplaced Pages, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:06, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Please show international legal grounds about a Chinese name of Senkaku Islands. If you cannot show international legal grounds about Chinese name of Senkaku Islands, Your writing is Vandalism. HighSpeed-X (talk) 02:18, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Your remark doesn't have international legal grounds. There is no international consensus in a Chinese name of Senkaku Islands. HighSpeed-X (talk) 02:25, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of what you think are international grounds, you have broken Misplaced Pages's policies, as per WP:3RR, and have been blocked. If you wish to engage in a discussion regarding the controversial topic, do so in a proper manner. Edit warring will get you nowhere. You have constantly ignored other editors' warnings, ignored WP:CONSENSUS within the article, refused to engage in proper discussion regarding the matter on the relevant talk page, and continue to revert others. You only seem to be interested in pushing your own point of view, and show little interest in listening to the POVs of others nor compromising towards a POV which is neutral. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you doing the conversation refusal? Please show an international legal grounds about a Chinese name of Senkaku Islands. HighSpeed-X (talk) 02:34, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

If you continue to talk like that and ignore what I have said, then I show no interest in communicating with you in the future. Good day, -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:39, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

It is important to be showing an international legal grounds than "future". Is this a vandalism? HighSpeed-X (talk) 02:48, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

First of all, I don't know what you mean by using the word "vandalism" to describe a Youtube link, since vandalism is (more or less) a Misplaced Pages concept, and Youtube is not a part of Misplaced Pages. Second of all, Youtube is not considered a reliable source by Misplaced Pages as its contents are user-defined, and so cannot be used to cite information here, if that is what you are trying to do. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Why you cannot show about "International legal grounds for a Chinese name of Senkaku Islands" ? Is this a vandalism too? HighSpeed-X (talk) 03:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Please show about "International legal grounds for a Chinese name of Senkaku Islands". HighSpeed-X (talk) 03:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

This will be my last time trying to explain: we don't have to--Misplaced Pages does not make decisions about what to include in our article based on an unclear concept like "international legal grounds." If you take a look through the policy links I gave you (and here's another: WP:V, which describes what we do care about as far as evidence is concerned), you'll see that it is not a consideration. We are not a part of the UN, or any other government for that mater. We make decisions about what to include in articles based on reliable sources. Quite a number of reliable sources have reported that the ownership is disputed. Some of those sources use both Japanese and Chinese names. Thus, we must follow the sources. If you want to argue about who owns Senkaku, I recommend finding a blog, newspaper with interactive comments, political site, or somewhere else. Misplaced Pages is not the place to argue about who does or doesn't own a particular set of land. It's the place to provide neutral coverage verified by reliable sources about notable topics. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:08, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The owner of Senkaku Islands is a Wedding Hall manager who lives in Saitama Prefecture. There is no Chinese name in Senkaku Islands. Please show about "International legal grounds for a Chinese name of Senkaku Islands".HighSpeed-X (talk) 03:13, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Forget it, guys, I think it's safe enough to declare WP:DEADHORSE here. I'm out. Pity it couldn't turn out any better. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 03:19, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The owner of Senkaku Islands is Japanese who lives in Saitama Prefecture. Evidence of Chinese name? By the way, Please let me hear your impression about this video.HighSpeed-X (talk) 03:30, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright enough. You all can discuss this on the talk page of the article when you're done. Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tolstoy

In part, this is a follow-up to the problem you were unable to resolve with a series of edits at Senkaku Islands.

I wonder if you have previously stumbled across this quote?

The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him. -- Leo Tolstoy, 1994

For me, this concept has resonance in a variety of Misplaced Pages settings. These sentences were introduced to me by someone interested in Metonymy and WP:Polling is not a substitute for discussion ≠ WP:Straw poll. Although I still haven't resolved what I think about the context, I do come back again and again to Tolstoy's words.

Perhaps these words might be usefully stored in the back of your mind? --Tenmei (talk) 14:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Back the fuck off

Mate, just back the fuck off already. There's no fucking point to be spamming every single one of my cross-wiki user talk pages at zh:User_talk:Benlisquare, ja:利用者‐会話:Benlisquare, ru:Обсуждение_участника:Benlisquare, and ko:사용자토론:Benlisquare. You're getting really fucking annoying here. Frankly I don't give a fuck, so could you please stop being a lousy cunt? Don't you have something fucking better to do? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 07:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)