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Kober Gamarjoba,

Dges ukurebdi bagrationebze shetanil statias da rogorts chans ikho mtsdeloba somxebis mier faktebis arevisa da shetsvlis romelits sakitxis kvesh akenebda kartvel bagrationebze shetanili informatsiis sizustes. dges me movxseni somxebis mier gaketebuli tsvlilebebi romelits ubralod arastsori ikho da discussionshits davamate komentari. tu am messagebs kitxulob, momtsere pasuxi am gverdze tu bagrationebis statia shen gexeba da mets am gverds ramodenime dgeshi shevamotsmeb. --Promethe 5 noemberi, 2005

samtsukharod, "Kober"-i tavad utskobs xels amgvari dezinpormaciis gavrcelebas. tu dakvirvebit caikitxavt bagrationta shesaxeb statiis sadiskusio gverds, amashi darcmundebit. Levzur, 6 November, 2005

Welcome!

Hello, Kober, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Hey, thanks for your work on Georgian history. I hope to see more like it; we'll probably run into each other occasionally if you're working on that area. Isomorphic 22:30, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Good work

Hi! Your work on Georgia is greatly appreciated. Just a tip - you can categorize people by writing ]. Also, you can categorize them by year of birth/death by writing ] etc. utcursch | talk 14:02, Feb 28, 2005 (UTC)

Many thanks for your tips and encouragement.

User categorisation

You were listed on the Misplaced Pages:Wikipedians/Georgia page as living in or being associated with Georgia. As part of the Misplaced Pages:User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit Category:Wikipedians in Georgia for instructions. -- Gurch 15:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Unintentional block

Hey sorry about the block, you were caught in the range block I did on Korean University. Although I am not sure how it got your ip, it was only /20. It was only a 3 hour block, and hopefully you are able to get on now. Cheers. «»Who?¿? 05:56, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Annexation of Georgia by Russia

In the Article Georgia (country) you wrote that Russian emperor Paul I unified Georgia and Russia in a proclamation on December 22, 1800. You wrote also that Georgian nobility accepted the proclamation. I think you mixed up the history.

All the western authors agree that it was not a unification but an annexation by a unilateral declaration. The only diversity of interpretation is the date and the name of that declaration. David M. Lang (The last years of the Georgian Monarchy: 1658-1832. Columbia University Press, New York 1957, p. 242) says the "manifestation" was published on December 18, 1800. Nikolas K. Gvosdev (Imperial policies and perspectives towards Georgia: 1760-1819. Macmillan , Basingstoke 2000, ISBN 0312229909, p. 85) says Paul I signed a "decree" on January 18, 1801. The Georgian historian Zurab Avalov (Prisoedinenie Gruzii k Rossii. Montvid, S.-Peterburg 1906, p. 186) also says it happened on January 18, 1801.

The Georgian nobility never accepted this unilateral declaration. What they accepted was a diplomatic note of November 13, 1800 negotiated by the Georgian envoys Prince Chavchavdze, Avalishvili und Palavalidishvili and Russian foreign minister Count Fedor Vasilevich Rostopchin. The note said that Georgia should join Russia, King Giorgi XII and his descendants should stay Kings of Kartli-Kakhetia forever, and Kartli-Kakhetia should have a certain local autonomy. But this note was never ratified by Russia.

The successor of Paul I, tsar Alexander I published a second declaration of annexation on September 12, 1801. The Georgian envoys in Sankt Peterburg submitted a note of protest to Russian vice-chancellor Prince Kurakin (Lang, p. 251). Because the Georgian nobility didn't co-operate Russian general Carl Heinrich Knorring forced Georgian aristocrats and clergyman to take an oath on the Russian crown on April 12, 1802 . Those who didn't swear were arrested (Lang, p. 252).

Maybe you should change the text. User:ChrisM, German Misplaced Pages 14:42, 16 December 2005

Sochi conflict

In Sochi conflict I read Encyclopaedia Britannica reported in 1911 that the Black Sea district was only thinly inhabited since the Russian Empire took control of the area forcing thousands of locals to become Muhajirs. The contemporary sources indicated also to a significant proportion of the region’s Georgian and Armenian population. But the Brittanica link doesn't mention anything about 'muhajirs'. Do you mean 'emigrants' with muhajdirs? And what is your source for this emigration (provided that you mean emigration)? And the next question: what are the 'contemporary rescources' which indicate that there were Armenians and Georgians living there?--Hardscarf 21:16, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

For more info on the Muslim emigration from the Imperial Russian Caucasus, see wikipedia entries Circassia, Abkhazia, Muhajir, etc. An account on the ethnic composition of the Black Sea district is given in details in a book of Gen. Kuzmin-Karavaev, published in Russian in the 1890s. These data are cited in

Thanks. I suspect you could partly refer to the aftermath of the Crimean War in 1864, when e.g. the Adyghe (Black Sea Shapsugi), Ubychi and Abazins (Sadzy-dzjigety) were forced to leave the area around Sochi after they allied with forces against Russia in order to regain their independence which was taken from them during the Russo-Turkish War, 1828-1829?

The articles you mention talk about the big emigration to the Ottoman empire between 1864 and 1878 of several peoples. But except for the Circassians I do not see any forced migration, although it seems reasonable that they were (partly) forced. Or do wou mean that it was their muslim duty to go back to the Dar al-Islam as they were not allowed to live in the Dar al-Harb (as I read in the Muhajir_of_Turkeysection).--Hardscarf 10:26, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Tbilisi City Seal

Hi Kober. Do you happen to have the current Tbilisi city seal by any chance? I looked for it on the Internet and couldn't find it. Thanks, D.Papuashvili 07:55, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi David. Thanks for yor great work on Georgia. Unfortunately, the only Tbilisi-related heraldic sign I could find on the Net is that of the Romanov-era. Kober 09:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Kober, thanks for letting me know. I appreciate your comments. You have done a lot more great work on Georgia than I have. D.Papuashvili 10:16, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

The Georgian People Page

Hi Kober. You might want to look at the Georgian People page. It has been protected from edits due to a funny discussion on whether Stalin was a Georgian. The page itself does not conform to a high standard and a lot of the sources or references (if there are any) are unverifiable. I know that it might be difficult to verify some of the data which is listed on that page, but right now the description just looks pretty unprofessional. Anyway, you might want to check it out if you get the chance. D.Papuashvili 12:34, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kober. How are you? That's fine if we work together on the Georgian People page. I haven't looked at it recently, and don't know if it's still blocked. I haven't been able to find a lot of time to edit Misplaced Pages either. I just added some pictures to Tbilisi today, and that's pretty much it. D.Papuashvili 12:16, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

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Teimuraz II

Hi Kober; I found your new article Teimuraz II whilst revision patrolling. It looks very good. Could you please just confirm if you wrote it yourself or what was the origin? In any case I have a kind request if I may. Could you please put in the sources that you used for this article? This makes it verifiable by the rest of us with less experties. It's normally much easier for the original author to do this. You might find footnotes helpful with this, though there are other systems. Ask me if you want any advice or help. Mozzerati 20:03, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kober

Hi Kober, rogora xart? vnaxe tkveni sokhumis gverdze shetanili tsvlilebebi da shevnsishne rom vigatseebi (ak saxelebi ar dasaxeldeba:)) tsvlian kartvelebis mier redaktirebul tekstebs da informatsias. rogorc vitsi am saitis zedamxedvelebits ratomgats magas aketeben. akamde ar metsala am entsiklopediistvis magram tu gindat shevkmnat ertoblivi kartuli eskizebi abxazetze ise rom kartuli mxarets gaigon am webgverdis mkitxvelebma da sheistsavlon isats rom abxazeti sakartvelos mxarea da ara damoukidebeli kvekhana. me am dargshi eksperti ar var magram kartuli sabchota enciklopedia da bevri sxva resursi makvs am dargtan dakavshirebit. D.Papuashvili 13:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi David, gmadlobt gamoxmaurebistvis. sakme imashia, rom ratomgac bevri am saitze simpatiit ukurebs abhasebis egretcodebul gamatavisuplebel brzolas ubralod informaciis naklebobis gamo. eksperti arc me var, magram moxaruli viknebi tu amistvis dros gamovnaxavt. mxolod es ise unda gaketdes, rom ar dagvabralon "mikerdzoeba" da "araneitraloba", etc. Ubralod meti diplomatiurobit carmovadginot abhasebis azric, mxolod ise, rom kargad dainaxon vis mxarezea simartle:)). Kober 15:13, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

dzalian kargi. dzneli tsesit ar unda ikhos "neitralobis" datsva. magitom albat amjobinebs istoriuli faktebis shetana. ramodenime dgis tsin kartuli enciklopediidan gadavtargmne sharvashidzeebis dinastiis teksti magram komputeri gametisha da tsameshala rats mindoda rom shemetana ak. eg sheidzleba kargi satskisi adgili ikhos, tviton teksti neutraluria da agtsers vin ikvnen abxazi mtavrebi. D.Papuashvili 17:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Assistance needed

Hello, could you please offer any possible help at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Mikho Mosulishvili to determine his notability? -Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 09:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Shatberdi

Hi Kober, you were asking about the monastery of Shatberdi. This certainly was one of the most important and most productive monasteries in whole Tao-Klarjeti. The intellectual spearhead of the region, if you want. Its location, however, is disputed. Some scholars believe that it can be identified with Yeni Rabat near Ardanuji. Others argue that the itinerary, described in the vita of St Grigol Hanzteli, is a clear indication for that the monastery of Shatberdi must have been situated west of Ardanuc, and not, as in the case of Yeni Rabat, east of Ardanuji. The Turkish art historian Mine Kadiroglu has published an article in "Georgica" in 1999 in which she suggests that Shatberdi could be identified with a place southwest of Ardanuc, close to the village of Köseler. Best wishes, Sofie.

PS.: I would like to learn more about your conception of Tao-Klarjeti. As I currently see it, it was region of great cultural exchange, where ideas had a free flow. Armenians and Georgians coexisted and intermingled in Tao-Klarjeti at that time, and I feel it is a pretty useless discussion weather Tao-Klarjeti was Georgian or Armenian. It probably was both. But what matters is that people did not think in terms of nationality at that time. Nationalism is a mind-child of the 19th century, and it is a pity to observe that some people tend to transpose their nationalist concptions on historical issues and places. Check out Tao-Klarjeti and User:Hetoum.

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Thanks for uploading Image:Diaokhi, Colchis, Zabaha and Urartu.png. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Misplaced Pages because of copyright law (see Misplaced Pages's Copyright policy).

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Tao/Tayk

Hello Kober,

Thanks for leaving comment on Bagratids of Tao/Tayk. Yes wedo share much history together, and unfotunately our current relationship is strained. I just htought that in these sections Armenian side of the story was being drowned out. I hope we will be able to contribute to Articles together in the future.

Regards, Hetoum

Possibly unfree Image:South-OssetiaMap.jpg

—Steven G. Johnson 04:25, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

☆

Hello, I see that you contributed some nice articles on Russia-related topics. Would you be so kind as to announce such articles on this notice-board? Thanks in advance, Ghirla 13:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)