Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 13:32, 9 March 2013

This is Demiurge1000's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21Auto-archiving period: 39 days

This user is busy in real life and may not respond swiftly to queries.

I don't need talkback or mail templates. If I post on your page, I watchlist it.

This user talk page might be watched by friendly talk page stalkers, which means that someone other than me might reply to your query. Their input is welcome and their help with messages that I cannot reply to quickly is appreciated.

GOCE drive wrap-up

Guild of Copy Editors January 2012 backlog elimination drive Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors January 2012 Backlog elimination drive! Here is your end-of-drive wrap-up newsletter. Participation 45 people signed up for this drive this time; of these, 35 participated. This is similar to the number of editors who helped out in November. Thanks to all who participated! Barnstars will be distributed in the near future. Progress report Recent drives have been focusing on the oldest three months in the backlog. During this drive we were successful in eliminating our target months—July, August, and September 2010—from the queue, and there are less than 300 articles remaining from 2010. End-of-drive results and barnstar information can be found here. When working on the backlog, please keep in mind that there are options other than copy editing available; some articles may be candidates for deletion, or may not be suitable for copy editing at this time for other reasons. The {{GOCEreviewed}} tag can be placed on any article you find to be totally uneditable, and you can nominate for deletion any that you discover to be copyright violations or completely unintelligible. If you need help deciding what to do, please contact any of the coordinators. Thank you for participating in the January 2012 drive! All contributions are appreciated. Our next copy edit drive will be in March. Your drive coordinators – The Utahraptor , S Masters (talk), Diannaa , Stfg (Talk), Sp33dyphil (talk), and Dank (talk)

GOCE March drive newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors March 2012 backlog elimination drive update Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors March 2012 Backlog elimination drive! Here's the mid-drive newsletter. Participation: We have had 58 people sign up for this drive so far, which compares favorably with our last drive, and 27 have copy-edited at least one article. If you have signed up but have not yet copy-edited any articles, please consider doing so. Every bit helps! If you haven't signed up yet, it's not too late. Join us! Progress report: Our target of completing the 2010 articles has almost been reached, with only 56 remaining of the 194 we had at the start of the drive. The last ones are always the most difficult, so thank you if you are able to help copy-edit any of the remaining articles. We have reduced the total backlog by 163 articles so far. Special thanks: Special thanks to Stfg, who has been going through the backlog and doing some preliminary vetting of the articles—removing copyright violations, doing initial clean-up, and nominating some for deletion. This work has helped make the drive a more pleasant experience for all our volunteers. Your drive coordinators – Dianna (talk), Stfg (talk), and Dank (talk) To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

QRpedia plaques

Thanks for the link. We also make sure that the url is human readable so that the wary could check if they wanted to, QRpedia was reviewed by security experts ad found to be good for a QR code solution. Actually I'm not sure if I believe this really happens - its like cleverly vandalising wikipedia .... we mostly get silly vandalsm as the clever people have better games to play.

Merry Christmas

Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas2}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Hohoho!!!

Bonkers The Clown (Nonsensical Babble) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas3}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Thanks for your kind help! ;)

mail

Thanks

Thank you for stepping up and answering some of my mail when I wasn't feeling well lately. Much appreciated. Danger 18:49, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Typhoon Edit

Here we go with the American strangulation of wikipedia. Only the facts you want hey? Can't wait until your dollar sinks because I can't stand you.

And by the way, the talk functions are crap. They're overly complicated and confusing. As are the edit and edit summary facilities. Please improve them. It's just a jumble of text at present. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Z07x10 (talk • contribs) 22:47, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your timely "man-urgement" input, Demi. Why isn't that Australian strangulation (by Dr Carlo Kopp?), I wonder? And I didn't realise that one could make the dollar sink just by not standing you. Any idea what this editor means about the "crap talk functions?" If the vandalism warnings posted on their Talk Page appear to this editor as simply "a jumble of text", that might explain a lot. I belatedly assunmed GF, but they don't seem to be editing in a particularly collaborative manner, do they? Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:45, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

The tabloid-like Licona analogy

Demiurge:

Thank you for your comments. I have rewritten my two postings, removed all the subjective evaluations, and neutered my objections. My first draft was influenced by the style of comments I had found on the TALK page, and I thought I was writing in the same uninhibited spirit. Do note that the Talk page is much more loaded with subjective evaluations and reactions than my new version.

I concur with your hypothesis of "good faith", but it is not enough. Competence and scholarship are also valued criteria. I have dealt all my life only with the top experts in their field, and it is an education to encounter writers who are well below that level of knowledge.

If I had used the Licona comparison or similar in any of my papers at Harvard, I would have been laughed out of his office by my supervisor. I am sure the same would have happened at Oxford or Cambridge. Anyway thanks. This is a different world. Very few top scholars accept to make an input in a Misplaced Pages article. Nonetheless some articles are first-class. But others are unsatisfactory. This Licona analogy would not be even accepted by our tabloid "New York Post" (or so I hope!). --ROO BOOKAROO (talk) 08:19, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

The French system of conscription brings together a fair sample of all classes; ours is composed of the scum of the earth—the mere scum of the earth. It is only wonderful that we should be able to make so much out of them afterwards. — Arthur Wellesley.

I will reply to your other points when I have a little more time. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 11:44, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

The Matrix article's CE

Hi, Demiurge, I have a question. Bear with me a bit, because I'm still new to CE Guild process. I've noticed that you're working on The Matrix article, and sometimes you leave things off, and I can't tell whether you're done. I assume that it is the standard procedure that when you're done, you'll inform the editors working on the article? Is that correct? Anthonydraco (talk) 15:02, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I'll drop you a note when I finish. (Not all GOCE copy-editors do this.) I tend to work intermittently over a week or more, and generally only work on very small sections, so it's fine for you to make more additions or changes in between. Some GOCE copy-editors do entire articles in one edit or a few very large edits, so they will normally put an "in use" template at the top while they're working, to avoid edit conflicts.

I'm more or less finished now; I'll confirm this later today. However, just to forewarn you, it looks like there is (or was) at least a small amount of overly close paraphrasing (WP:PARAPHRASE) from the Andrew Godoski piece. This does bring up the risk that there's lots more, so this will need to be looked into carefully before a GA review. More on this later. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:29, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 1

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Misplaced Pages appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited The Matrix, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Evil genius (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:47, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Huh?

Hey, I have no idea who Philippe is or what he does or what list you're talking about. In any case, as I've said somewhere, I'm scaling back my commitment to wikipedia to staying with that RFC/U until a resolution appears. Then I'm done. Right now, I'm going to take my daughter to the park, and then I might read a book and she has a book she wants to read too. If there's something you want me to do, e-mail me: "daniel.judd@gmail.com" and I'll get to it next time I can be arsed to visit this place. In other news, I didn't see your notice at the top asking for no talkbacks, so I'm replacing that with this. ˜danjel  02:06, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. A walk in the park sounds like a good idea. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 03:38, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

GOCE January barnstars

		The Cleanup Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to Demiurge1000 for copy editing articles totalling over 12,000 words in the GOCE January copy edit drive. Thank you very much for participating! Dianna (talk) 22:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

		Leaderboard Award—5K articles—5th Place (tied)
		This Leaderboard Barnstar is awarded to Demiurge1000 for copy editing one article of 5,000 words or more during the GOCE January copy edit drive. Your contributions are much appreciated! Dianna (talk) 22:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

DYK

Hi there! I understand you are knowledgable on DYK nominations. Can you have a look at Women in Turkish politics and help me/us/WP to make a DYK out of it? Thanks in advance and all the best. --E4024 (talk) 17:14, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

This will be tricky - the article was created on 25th January 2013 so you are fast running out of time. You would need to submit the nomination today, and even then I don't know if it would be accepted.

The most obvious thing that needs fixing is that every paragraph should have an inline citation - that generally means at the end of the paragraph. There are some sections that have no citations at all, and some that have a citation but only half-way through the paragraph. See if that can be fixed first. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:23, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Looks like we're late. Thanks all the same. Best. --E4024 (talk) 18:22, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Richard M. Daley GA nomination

Thanks for the heads up about the CCI, i'll check it out shortly. Retrolord (talk) 10:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Demiurge

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		Demiurge, you always help me when I need or ask of it. I appreciate you putting in the time to work with me and answer my noobish and very random questions. You definitely deserve this Helping Hand Barnstar for all the assistance and feedback you provide. Thank you very much, —  dain- talk   01:16, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Sorry, they wuz all out of barnstars!

Drmies (talk) 17:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

BLP

I'm not sure how WP:BLP applies to a dead girl. I would kindly request that you undo your edit. Eminence2012 (talk) 21:13, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Replied, rather bluntly, on your talkpage. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:16, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Starship9000 (talk) 01:13, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

WP:REFACTOR

Can you please please tell me where in any policy it says users may not change their wording after someone has replied? Because if that's not in policy, you're violating REFACTOR. Thanks. gwickwire_edits 14:36, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Although I'm not following the entire situation, WP:REFACTOR says "If another editor objects to refactoring then the changes should be reverted" and also warns that "Refactoring may cause confusion if improperly applied to an ongoing discussion; an editor should take great care to preserve all such discussion and all relevant details to its context" ... the obvious meaning of this is that you should not change your original post after it's been responded to, or else you change the meaning and context (✉→BWilkins←✎) 14:49, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

More importantly, there's WP:REDACT, which states It is best to avoid changing your own comments. Other users may have already quoted you with a diff (see above) or have otherwise responded to your statement. ... Removing or substantially altering a comment after it has been replied to may deprive the reply of its original context. It can also be confusing. Worm(talk) 14:52, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

• I have put a note in to state it was refactored . Please carry on with normal business. If I see any more edit warring, I will hand out blocks. Worm(talk) 15:05, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for help with IRC

Thanks for you help in IRC today. I really do want to be more involved and be able to create and publish articles. Is there a mentoring or training program like there is in vandalism? What would you recommend? I am just too intimidated to get started. Thanks! Jab843 (talk) 04:38, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you too! There are training programs in vandalism? I do hope not. But yes, of course there are training programs in editing. And yes, they do take away some of that "too intimidated" feeling. I'd be happy to help you through an adoption/mentoring course if you like - just let me know. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 04:46, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Thanks for your help today! You deserve a star! Jab843 (talk) 04:40, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Monmouthpedia

a primary source would be the report itself or the blog post by wmf and wmuk. the source i provided is secondary. didn't you click the link? 174.141.213.40 (talk) 00:38, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Really?

I would've appreciated if you'd added a note about removing my hatting, or at least notified me. {{Archive top}}s and {{Hat}}s have always been something of a gray area, TPO-wise, but I'm of the strong opinion that if a closure note has anything other than a purely routine note in it, the reopening editor should either link to the diff of the closure, or include the full text that accompanied it. I don't think "foolish" is a very fair word to use, especially when both threads were complete bullshit. If you actually feel like taking a stand for either ideology espoused there, then by all means do, but otherwise I can't see what purpose it served to un-hat them - Jayron32 has re-hatted the latter, and the former remains unanswered because, as I correctly guessed, no editor has any interest in dignifying it with a response, yourself included, it seems. Additionally, while I'd stop short of calling it POINTy, it seems at the very least imprudent to unhat me twice after I hatted a recent fight you got into with another user. — PinkAmpers& 12:41, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Well the conclusion from that is that perhaps you shouldn't go round hatting things all over the place just because they seem - to you - to merit it. There are plenty of "ideologies" or points of view that we may feel are "complete bullshit" but there's absolutely no advantage or purpose in hiding away such things under pink rugs (or any other colour) just because we think they're dumb or nonsensical or trolling. If it had been a discussion on the reference desk, it might have been more appropriate to hat it (though I've recently unhatted some there as well, where further responses were obviously justifiable). But people should be able to bring their views and concerns (however apparently weird) to the village pump without busybodies jumping in to close them down because subjectively their concerns (which may well be sincerely held) aren't important.

We also shouldn't be mocking such problematic people by wittering on about being "faux cabal" as you did - it's rude and a completely unnecessary in-joke, and if these people are crazy then shutting them off in that way is only going to make them crazier. (Quite apart from which, your argument "If we were controlled by the PRC, do you think you would've been able to post this" was clearly flawed, so should've been as a comment that they would be able to reply to and reason with, not a hat to prevent them doing so.)

"Close" notes don't have any special status in my eyes, so if you're using them to gain that, don't bother. I'm not going to edit war with you (or anyone else) over the closures, though, because re-opening them is only a matter of opinion (mine) just as much as closing them is. However, I don't inform people of unhatting a discussion, any more than I inform them that I've replied to them.

I'll give you a couple of examples to think on. In the last week some guy popped up and started getting very excited about altering Haiti; he was enough of a loon that I had to ban him and subsequently it turned out he was a sockpuppet as well (I think he ended up with an indef on all accounts). His style of discussion revolved around listing off names of individual Haitians with French-sounding names and demanding that I (and the rest of the world) google them. He was entirely incapable of explaining what this would prove or what his actual problem was or even what part of the article he felt was wrong. But, despite all this crazy, a bit of investigation led me to one of the things most troubling him, and in fact it turned out that part of the infobox was partially misleading, unnecessary, and likely to cause trouble. So yes, he was not a person that we could reasonably co-operate with on building an encyclopedia, but it was still appropriate to take his concerns seriously, rather than assuming he was trolling.

Another example was a few months ago at Jimbo's talk page. Some Japanese person repeatedly turned up with various questions and demands and accusations, completely incoherent through being Google Translate only, and spreading over into legal threat territory (against Jimbo!). Jimbo was completely polite, answered the person's questions where they made sense, told them each time that he didn't understand the rest of it, and so on. Eventually I went and found someone fluent in both English and Japanese, who looked into it and concluded the person was an idiot (not the wording I would've used myself) and that there was no chance of getting any sense from them. That was that - but it was absolutely correct of us to go to that trouble rather than just deciding the person was a loon right from the start and closing them down. Because doing that, as I said, makes crazies more crazy. (Especially if accompanied with apparent taunts as you did.)

Even fluent English-speakers struggle to understand how Misplaced Pages works; when I fix BLP problems I am often accused of being paid to do so or being associated with the subject, but that's a sincere and understandable mistake, and should be treated as such. As the largest Misplaced Pages, we do very regularly get complaints or queries from people whose English skills are either bad or just non-existent. Many of these look equally incoherent and ridiculous - some of the complaints about the Turkish Misplaced Pages have been just as bad, even though it seems very likely there is actually a serious problem over there. Although there are a few instances where the "assume a genuine problem" stage has passed a long time ago, in most cases rushing in to close down discussions for the sake of it, and mocking the original poster along the way, is not the route to take. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:10, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm not arguing that "close" notes have any special status; quite the contrary. I'm saying that when re-opening a discussion, a user should include a reference to the previous close. As you said, contributors to the previously-closed discussion may want to respond to points raised in the close note.

As for your points about respecting fringe/unintelligible POVs, my feelings remain the same: If you care so much, you should actually respond to them, not silently revert me. If we could understand what the first thread said, I imagine we'd hat/remove it as rife with personal attacks. The second got itself promptly re-hatted, and the subsequent discussion proves that there's nothing about a hat that means that interested users can't simply click "show" and see what it is that got the user so up-in-arms. Threads stay on VPP for 5 days, last I checked, so that's 120 hours in which anyone can check to see if there was any substance behind all the trolling. Anyways, I'm all for ignoring certain conduct policies if the users violating them are making good points, but... despite all of your philosophizing, I don't see you actually contesting that this was bullshit. I agree with your abstract points, but I don't think that they apply here. — PinkAmpers& 17:54, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm not going to get into an argument about the rightness, wrongness, or "bullshit"ness of the complaints that you hatted. If you want to make a point about something that someone posts, you need to put it in a comment, not in a hat. No-one is "ignoring certain conduct policies". --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:01, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Fine, remove Gwick's comment if you must , but I just asked an honest question. — PinkAmpers& 18:31, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I removed Gwickwire's comment because he's apparently too lazy to even look at the issue that arose (even to look at the discussion you yourself gave a link to!), never mind actually reading what was said in response. (He finds it "intimidating" when someone gives a proper reply, I love that.) He's basically only here to continue his childish squabble about his failure to understand policy, which he's now taken to ANI multiple times (where he was told how ridiculous his behaviour is) and been warned for at WP:ANEW. He would do well to find something more constructive to spend his time here on.

As for your question, I don't have "rules" about hatting something, I exercise editorial discretion. It is generally not appropriate to hat something when it appears to be a sincerely meant complaint about policy or policy related matters, for the reasons I explained at length above. I have, however, collapsed material from time to time when it seemed appropriate (feel free to sift through my contribs for such exciting incidents, I'm sure there's one quite recently!), but I don't take particular umbrage if I get reverted after doing so. (Because, like I said above, the revert is an opinion that's as valid or invalid as the decision to collapse the material in the first place.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:53, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Quail Valley Middle School

Thanks for the suggestion!Cmckain14 (talk) 00:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Notification of discussion

A few months ago, you participated in a discussion on Misplaced Pages talk:Did you know about Gibraltar-related DYKs on the Main Page. I am proposing that the temporary restrictions on such DYKs, which were imposed in September 2012, should be lifted and have set out a case for doing so at Misplaced Pages talk:Did you know/Gibraltar-related DYKs. If you have a view on this, please comment at that page. Prioryman (talk) 21:47, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Hey Demi

Hey Demiurge, like I mentioned that one day, I'm working on adding references to the Norman conquest of southern Italy article since there weren't very many, so I started working on it in my userspace. With me going over a few sources I changed some of the content after reading them (and citing what I found in them). I just wanted to get your eyes on it in my userspace before I put it "live" incase we want to talk about some of the changes and such. Anywho, I look forward to any feedback/response you might have. If you wouldn't mind using the userspace talk page for your response/feedback that would be appreciated since I'll ask for a few others opinions as well. Thanks again, cheers, — - dain- talk    01:57, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

It's great that you're working on adding references to this. It would be nice to see this article reach GA one day, and a shortage of refs is one of the main things holding it back.

However, I'm not sure that copying it to userspace and then working on it there is necessarily a good idea. For a start, what happens if other people edit the mainspace version while you're editing the userspace version? You'll re-incorporate their changes when moving the userspace version over the mainspace version? How will you handle attribution if the userspace version ends up being edited by multiple different people - will you need to ask for a history merge later? Unless there's a reason for working on it separately in userspace (e.g. you're aiming at a 5x expansion for DYK and it will take more than five days), it's usually better to just improve the mainspace version. (WP:BOLDly.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 14:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

You bring up a good idea regarding having to merge histories as well as folks editing the article in the interim before I "finish" contributing. I wasn't going for DYKs or anything of that sort. Thanks for the input, do you think you will be adding to the content later or just checking out updates, I assume it's on your watchlist since you have 30+ edits to the article. — - dain- talk    02:00, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

It will always be on my watchlist, but I won't be adding much content - I was mostly involved as copyeditor. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 02:04, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Updates to technical pages

Hi Demiurge1000 - thanks for your note. I'm clearly new to wikipedia, so I would love to better understand how you would have written those updates. You mentioned that the updates were promotional - on the oscilloscope page, I definitely can see removing the mention of the brand of oscilloscope (although it is factual in nature), but slow update rate *is* an inherent drawback of digital oscilloscopes. Why would we try to hide that on a wikipedia page? For the RS232 page, there was no mention of any brand of oscilloscopes - how could that be considered promotional? It was the same context as the information above it in the development tools section, just about a different (and very common) development tool. What would you suggest? TIA. Richpike (talk) 14:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Richard, you must have forgotten, when you say "For the RS232 page, there was no mention of any brand of oscilloscopes", that in your edit to that page, you included a link to cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-6677EN.pdf which has the lovely quote "Agilent’s InfiniiVision 3000 and 4000 X-Series oscilloscopes (DSOs) and mixed-signal oscilloscopes (MSOs) offer optional integrated serial bus triggering and hardware-based protocol decoding solutions that give you the tools you need to accelerate debug of your designs". The only other article you have edited is Oscilloscope, where you included a link to a different piece of Agilent marketing literature, and also took the trouble to mention (without an independent source) how the fastest devices on the market today are, just by coincidence, made by Agilent.

What would I suggest? First, it's easiest to avoid mentioning the brand name (or the products under the brand) at all; unless you can find a reliable third-party source that discusses the importance of the products for the topic. Second, encyclopedia articles do not address the reader in the second person like marketing literature does; thus, we do not write things like "faster update rates allow you to see more signal detail and increase your probability of capturing infrequent events" in Misplaced Pages's voice. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:08, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Very helpful! I thought it was beneficial to provide sources, but I see your point about the sources needing to be more indepedent. Thanks for the insights. I'll try again - thanks for the fast response. Richpike (talk) 15:43, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Mirror image discussions

Hmm. I've never read nor edited the Binge drinking article. I'm not sure I can be much help. Alcoholism and addiction are their own special area that mixes mental health with internal medicine.Legitimus (talk) 01:44, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, indeed. The common theme was perception of those involved being a major part of the issue and its portrayal here. As I say, just a curiosity that struck me this evening. (I'm working on a biographical article that touches on both topics, but am trying to relate only history rather than risking straying into medical territory of any sort - I have historical qualifications but no medical ones apart from some undergraduate psychology courses.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

I will say that from what I know from colleagues who work with alcoholism that the denial involved is a breed all its own. It goes well beyond the simply psychological process of denial and cognitive dissonance. It involves genetics and brain chemistry. But as you can probably figure out, only an alcoholic goes around trying to justify destructive usage and disparaging medical science. A bitter irony when you realize the other person both is completely "outing" themselves by arguing with you, but at the same time revealing you will never be able to convince them through reason.Legitimus (talk) 13:17, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:PERM/ACC; removal of {{not done}} template

Hello, Demi. I would like to ask why you have removed the {{not done}} template I placed when closing a request. Yes, I am not an administrator nor would I normally be handling requests for permissions but that is an area that I or another ACC admin is required to comment. If you wish for me not to use a template that an admin would place hours later, then so be it but I find that highly unnecessary. :) -- Cheers, Riley 19:37, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Hello Riley, congratulations on your latest hat. The template was removed because, as has been discussed at length, requests for permissions should be approved or denied by administrators. The presence of comments with sarcastic edit summaries and bravado about "the big boss", suggests it wouldn't be wise to change that any time soon. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 14:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

GOCE February 2013 newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors February 2013 events newsletter We are preparing to start our February requests blitz and March backlog elimination drive. The February 2013 newsletter is now ready for review. – Your project coordinators: Torchiest, BDD, and Miniapolis Sign up for the February blitz and March drive! To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 22:54, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Tim Gustard

Many thanks Demiurge1000, I appreciate your input. A great deal of info has been erased by this user who seems preoccupied with belittling the Tim Gustard page. The person who created did so in a rather flowery manner and was obviously an admirer and perhaps also not reliable. If you require any further information or wish to improve this article or indeed feel it is time to delete it, please contact me, Tim Gustard on bobdunda@btinternet.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.15.212 (talk) 14:35, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Tim, it looks like the article will probably be deleted within a week or so, which is probably the best solution to the problem. Check in a couple of weeks and see if things look better. I wouldn't recommend re-creating the article (or keeping it), as it would most likely lead to the same sort of problems again. (Having said that, I'm not especially against the existence of an article, but it would probably be difficult to get right.)

Incidentally, is it correct that this rather nice image is public domain (i.e. freely useable) - it seems to have been uploaded as such by Pamela Ball on behalf of Beckstones Gallery, does this sound right? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 11:39, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for your positive contribution to the discussion on my talk page. I appreciate it. Cullen Let's discuss it 20:05, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

No problem. I doubt it will make much difference to the outcome, but I do believe we should be very careful in assuming COI in such cases. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 11:39, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Thankyou

Hi Demiurge1000, thankyou for your comment you left on my talk page. You are right the photo was taken on the sea front of clacton on sea, although its not the best quality, i believe its one of the only on commons that show a complete rainbow so close, in your opinion do you think its worth a go at featured picture? Best regards --Danesman (talk) 12:04, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm not much of an expert on the featured picture process, but I do know that even minor flaws in quality or composition can lead to Opposes. Still, there's nothing to be lost by trying. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:06, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Land reclamation

Hello Demiurge1000, you reverted my adjustments in the article Land reclamation.

An article about Land reclamation without mentioning the extensive Dutch history with the subject is a huge omission. I assume you don't disagree with that. If so, I would like to hear before I make the adjustments in the coming days.

You reverted all the adjustments all at once, because of too close paraphrasing the source. But only parts of it is paraphrased.

In the coming days I will put back paragraph by paragraph, rephrasing text and adding additional sources, since the article needs some more resources. If you still think parts of it are too close paraphrased, you can only revert the relevant parts. --Watisfictie (talk) 13:31, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Hello Demiurge1000, I just read your remarks, making my own remarks above not relevant any more.--Watisfictie (talk) 13:49, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Where have you...

...seen a nomination by a low trusted user of a community? I just want to know what nomination was made by the user with low trust in the community, who is the nominator and who is the candidate. I need a link please. Cmach7 01:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't believe that would be useful to you (or to Misplaced Pages more generally), as it's something that happened nearly a year ago now, and I believe the opinions of the people involved may have changed in that time anyway. You may wish to just take my word for it that it caused some bad feeling and some problems for the nominator (and, as far as I know, one Oppose in an RfA that ended as successful).

As has been noted (in rather harsher terms) on your talkpage, you should probably stay away from nominating, requesting nominations, or requesting any other sort of rights, for a good six months or so at least. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 11:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Irish Music Festival

Hi, Little confused to as why my contribution of our Irish Music Festival Sligo Live was not accepted into wikipedia. There are many other Irish festivals listed. Kind regards, (Dan.young3000 (talk) 11:26, 21 February 2013 (UTC))

Talk:Main Page is not the place to post such things. Try Misplaced Pages:Articles for creation instead. You'll also need to write it neutrally instead of promotionally, and you will need to provide citations to independent reliable sources - see WP:42. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 11:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Removal of posted content

This is rouge Bantha 21 young that I posted my lego Star Wars post with information from LEGO STAR WARS.com.

And my name is supposed to be spelled like that.

                 Cheers,
                               Rougebantha21  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rouge bantha 21 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Good Humor
	You sarcastic devil you! ♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 13:45, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! :) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot

We are currently running a study on the effects of adding additional information to SuggestBot’s recommendations. Participation in the study is voluntary. Should you wish to not participate in the study, or have questions or concerns, you can find contact information in the consent information sheet.

We have added information about the readership of the suggested articles using a Low/Medium/High scale which goes from Low to High .

SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!

Stubs			Cleanup
	Raisina Hill			Donner Party timeline
	Harendra Singh Malik			Military history of Argentina
	Sattahip District			Netherworld Dancing Toys
	Ram Prakash		Merge
	Nushrat Bharucha			2011 Indian anti-corruption movement
	Satyavrat Chaturvedi			President
	Atma Singh Gill			Data Terminal Ready
	Acts of Peter and Andrew		Add sources
	Tanchangya language			Haitian diaspora
	Deborra-Lee Furness			Technological Institute of Textile & Sciences
	Pamvotida			Data cluster
	Jai Parkash		Wikify
	Cayemites			Canadian leaders debates
	No Name in the Street			National Institute of Technology Karnataka
	Employment discrimination law in the European Union			Kickstarter
	Lyulin motorway		Expand
	Middle office			Darksiders II
	Avtar Singh Bhadana			The Mummy (franchise)
	The Lotus Caves			United Kingdom general election records

SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. We appreciate that you have signed up to receive suggestions regularly, your contributions make Misplaced Pages better — thanks for helping!

If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please let us know on SuggestBot's talk page. Regards from Nettrom (talk), SuggestBot's caretaker. -- SuggestBot (talk) 13:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

A. Chenevix-Trench

If you can send me a scan of the newspaper cutting of the L. Kennedy book review which I infer you possess, it is just possible that I might be able to identify the source from the typefaces and layout, etc. -- Alarics (talk) 08:51, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. The source has now been identified, but if you want to send me your email address (or reply to the email I sent you through Misplaced Pages), I can send you the review anyway, plus a few related articles that may be of interest. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:26, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Showing a Quote by Richard Carrier in the "Reception" Section of the Doherty Article

Dear Demiurge:

I get your points, and I certainly endeavor to stick to facts, preserve an objective tone, and respect the tendency to a neutral point of view.

I have already written four full-fledged Misplaced Pages articles, all of them practically brand-new, on untouched or undeveloped subjects by the Misplaced Pages cohort of editors. I accept your remarks, offered in good faith.

However, I must respectfully claim that the following comment by Richard Carrier:

"I know Ehrman read Doherty’s monstrous second book but not his original Jesus Puzzle, and yet the latter is a far superior argument for his conclusion, by the standards Ehrman would expect, whereas the second is 90% speculative digression (hundreds and hundreds of pages worth) which is exactly the kind of thing that chaps the hide of professional scholars."

does belong to the section Reception. Alternatively this quote could be reduced to a shorter form, since Carrier's evaluation of the Jesus Puzzle has already been mentioned at the beginning of the section:

"I know Ehrman read Doherty’s monstrous second book but not his original Jesus Puzzle, and... the second is 90% speculative digression (hundreds and hundreds of pages worth) which is exactly the kind of thing that chaps the hide of professional scholars."

or even (probably the best excerpt, as being the shortest):

Doherty’s monstrous second book... is 90% speculative digression (hundreds and hundreds of pages worth) which is exactly the kind of thing that chaps the hide of professional scholars.

Those are the points to consider:

• 1. Carrier is an authentic Ph.D. in ancient history from Columbia University (Manhattan), which Doherty is not (with only an unverified B.A., probably an online degree from a degree mill)
• 2. He's already written many books, contributed chapters to many other books, all of them published by respected publishers (Prometheus is, in the States, the most prestigious publisher for skeptical books about religion and Christianity), a feat that Doherty has never been able to achieve.
• 3. He's written a lot of articles, published in creditable reviews
• 4. He has a Misplaced Pages article Richard Carrier, much longer and detailed than Doherty's, for example
• 5. He is not only notable in the States, but respected and invited to talks by many universities.
• 6. His articles are well known, and often quoted in the scholarly literature by other Ph.D.s, (whereas no article written by Doherty is ever quoted by anybody, for the reason that they are not read. The second book, Neither God nor Man is an effort to bring this collection of those unread articles to the public.)
• 7. He is the only person who has published a full review of Doherty's first book, The Jesus Puzzle, in fact mentioned in the Doherty article (Note 12, of Feb. 2002). No other scholar worldwide has published another review of that book.
• 8. Paul Ellingworth, of Aberdeen, a famous expert Biblical translator from the Greek, who's written one of the top commentaries on The Epistle to the Hebrews (and whose scholarship is used by Doherty in his chapter on Hebrews in Neither God nor Man), has declared that he has verified that only one academic library in the whole of the UK has a copy of The Jesus Puzzle and none of the second book, Neither God nor Man.
• 9. Carrier is already mentioned in the section "Reception" about the first book, The Jesus Puzzle:

"Among authors sympathetic to the view that Jesus never existed, Doherty's work has received mixed reactions. The Jesus Puzzle has received favorable reviews from skeptics Robert M. Price and Richard Carrier."

• 10. Carrier's quotation about the recent book, Neither God nor Man is, in Misplaced Pages's perspective, objective and factual, and not related to any editor's POV. It does belong to the Section "Reception".
• 11. I am willing to bring the consideration of the eligibility of Carrier's quote to the most experienced court of Misplaced Pages (a new experience for me) . But I can only hope you'll agree with me.
  

And indicate which formulation of the quote best satisfies you. Meanwhile I'll repost the (shortest) #3 formulation .

Regards from a good-faith editor to another one. --ROO BOOKAROO (talk) 11:45, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Keith Johnson (author)

I have written an article, whilst logged in as 'dvdwllm', and in the Sandpit title 'Keith Johnson (author) but I am not clear how to upload it into Misplaced Pages. I have saved it, and been through the upload wizard but still do not find it in Misplaced Pages. Dvdwllm (talk) 19:56, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi! Your draft article is at User:Dvdwllm/sandbox. And very interesting it is too! If you add {{subst:submit}} to the top of it, it will be reviewed to check whether it is currently suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages. (This usually takes between one and three weeks.) However, in order to be accepted, it will need references that demonstrate that the subject of the article has received significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources (click that link for more information about that). The subject's LinkedIn page, the website for his software, and a listing of his publications, are not independent sources. A good example of a reference to use, would be a newspaper article about him. Further, the references to these independent reliable sources about him should ideally be inline citations - please read WP:REFB for information on how to do that. And ideally, statements like "It was the first to cover complete concepts in single- or double-page spreads" should all be supported by such an inline citation as well. So there is lots to do. Good luck! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:45, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Anthony Chenevix-Trench

On 1 March 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Anthony Chenevix-Trench, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Anthony Chenevix-Trench aimed to abolish school uniform completely at Eton, but only succeeded in abolishing the rule requiring smaller boys to wear suits that included a "bumfreezer" (pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Anthony Chenevix-Trench. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 00:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

kidnapped

Hi, it is not my desire to increase any drama regarding the user who expressed his fear that he or his family might be kidnapped by foreigners. If you go back to the original thread there's concern expressed that the OP seems to be claiming a memory from his youth of such kidnappings before they were known to the general public and before they even happened. The user has an odd sophistication with his first and very frequent contributions being well formatted posts to talk spaces yet showing an oddly slow learning curve when people explain why certain behaviors are problematic. For instance, here it was explained he shouldn't mark In The News nominations updated unless they were, according to policy, to which he replied understood, then here, 20 minutes later, here violates the exact same policy. I appreciate your wish to help new users. I have found dialog with this user unproductive. μηδείς (talk) 18:15, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

AN Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Crazynas 07:38, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Speculation much?

Did you have any evidence for the speculation you posted, or is it just empty rhetoric? I'd hate to think you were just making it up. Kevin (talk) 00:27, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Demiurge contacted me about this privately. I can tell you that there is evidence for every statement they made, and the English Misplaced Pages Arbitration Committee is in posession of this evidence. gwickwire_editing 02:14, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

<redacted> But I very much doubt he has any evidence at all that Kevin is supplying the asshole with any information <redacted>. That kind of casual slander is really unacceptable. If either one of you make that accusation again on-wiki, you'll be blocked from editing. If you have any evidence Kevin is involved in that, send it to ArbCom. If not, don't say it again. --Floquenbeam (talk) 02:32, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Clarify: Actually, even if you do have such evidence, don't say it on-wiki. But I doubt you do. --Floquenbeam (talk) 02:33, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I'm sorry, but since this involves very private information, this should be left to ArbCom on whether a block is warranted. Demiurge made a statement that may or may not have had evidence. I'm no longer going to comment on this publicly, as it's leading to (surprise surprise) more harassment and outing on that site. I can assure you that both Demiurge and me are aware that any private evidence must go to the functionaries, and that we will follow that with all evidence. gwickwire_editing 02:36, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

As long as the information stays in an email to ArbCom, I won't block anyone. But if the accusation is made on-wiki again, I will. --Floquenbeam (talk) 02:38, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

• Someone seems to be reading something into my comments that isn't (wasn't?) there. However, since my comments were aimed solely at people who are still well able to read them, there's no need for me to be arguing about that one way or the other. Whoever censored what I posted in the arbcom case should, however, have made an indication that something was removed, rather than leaving something above my signature which is not what I wrote. I've fixed that. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:38, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

• Just for the record, and to correct any misleading impressions left, what I posted specifically did not say that "Kevin is supplying" anyone with information. Floquenbeam, your implication of this above is poorly worded. Your decision to name gwickwire here is also rather poor judgement - I'll leave it to him as to whether he'd prefer to blank this entire thread then ask for it to be oversighted (I do mean oversight not revdel). --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:49, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
  • I've been told by an OSer that this would have to be a full team decision, and I have absolutely -100% confidence in the OS team (because it includes arbitrators), so I'll not bother. gwickwire_editing 05:55, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Talking of "casual slander"

Why do you keep saying "boxcutter", and what are you trying to imply by doing so?

No, honestly, I really have no idea. I suspect I may not be the only one, either. — Hex (❝?!❞) 13:32, 9 March 2013 (UTC)