Misplaced Pages

I Dream of Genie

FYI, I'm holding off on more copyediting until content contribution has settled down. Can't concentrate with all the construction going on! EEng (talk) 05:49, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Wonderfully said ...

Hi there Blade. I can't say I really understand all that went on, but I did read a really great comment you made about our all having "Misplaced Pages" as an "armor" .. I don't have the diff right at the moment, but I thought it was an absolutely wonderful sentiment. Kudos to you for such sage thoughts in what was apparently a real mess. All my best to you and yours through the rest of the season. ... and thank you for always being a voice of kindness and reason. Ched :  ?  17:15, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks; I happened to be listening to a song called Armor and Sword, and I thought the analogy would work pretty well (most of it is about relationships). As is fairly obvious above, I've been kinda in the zone on one article, but I happened to check AN to make sure my name hadn't been mentioned somewhere and saw all that... what a mess. Can't feel all that horrible about it (I have the article I'm working on for that), but it's still not good to see. I hope things eventually clear up one way or another. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:22, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh my - I just read through the Genie article. (some very nice work by the way). Reading something like that certainly does tend to put things into perspective. That would be a tough subject to devote time to. — Ched :  ?  18:00, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Shields up, Mr. Sulu. Yellow alert!

Call Norad! Go to Arbcom 4! EEng (talk) 05:28, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Topic ban vio?

Do you consider this edit to be a violation of Maurice07's topic ban? Thanks, Athenean (talk) 07:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

For the record, my 2 cents was dropped on my talkpage. Also there is a thread at Heim's talk about this. -- DQ (ʞlɐʇ) 07:30, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

FYI Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:26, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks; I'll drop in there at some point. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 02:30, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Still in reclusion?

I gather your "Do Not Disturb" sign is meant to be down now, maybe? If not send me somewhere else, but since I know you have a tender place in your heart for those whom life has dealt bad hands, I wonder if you can take a look at . My concern is (a) that no one seems to have followed up on the actual deletion, which is inevitable, and (b) that when that happens, it be done with a bit more gentleness than has been manifest to date. EEng (talk) 14:21, 19 January 2013 (UTC) P.S. Can I copyedit now? Huh? Huh? Can I can I can I?

Well, I did leave the sign up intentionally, but I'm more than happy to help out with that situation; it's not total isolation. As for the copyediting, have at it; I'm not going to be able to do anything really substantial on the article for several hours, so it's all yours. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:22, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of macrons....

...whatever they are, I thought you might be interested in , though Í've not the foggiest idea what they're talking about. EEng (talk) 23:30, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

A macron is the horizontal line over letters; o without, ō with. They're used in Japanese romaji to indicate a vowel with two morae; for instance, chizu means map but chīzu means cheese. The other common way to indicate two morae is to write two vowels; chiizu would also be fine for cheese (for e and o, you'd do this as ei and ou, hence wasei-eigo). I'll look into the discussion later. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:38, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

I thought it was something like:

Captain: But Spock -- how is that possible?

Spock: It appears, Captain, to be a macron-based life form unlike any with which I am familiar. However, on Beta Antares 4 there have been reports of --"

Captain: Oh, shut up, will you for once, Spock?

EEng (talk) 23:18, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Parenthetically speaking—dash it all!

Just so there's no misunderstanding, while I may push back a little I believe that the sum of my slash-burn-relentlessly-boil-down approach plus the tempering instincts of someone less expositorily bloodthirsty such as yourself, works well. Because I trust you I don't always review everything you do, which means that sometimes I will reintroduce a change you backed out, because I might not recall whether I actually /did/ something, versus just thought about doing it. If that happens and you feel strongly, just re-revise. If I still don't get the point, better Talk me.

I do love my dashes and parentheses—I'm told people (most of them, anyway) eventualy get used to them.

I think this is going quite nicely, don't you? EEng (talk) 21:31, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I'm finding the process rather engaging. I have no problem with you removing anything, I can always readd it if necessary; if anything, your removals have helped a lot, as an outside view will sometimes catch things that either should be removed or need clarification on why it's useful information. Absolutely nothing being taken personally, your editing has been enormously helpful. I'm somewhat prone to overusing parentheses myself, so I'm perhaps a bit oversensitive to trying to cut them out, and no objections to your dashes. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:06, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Good, gooood! My plan is working perrrfectly. EEng (talk) 23:22, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Heh. The line which seems to be giving us the most trouble now had never caught my attention, as it was there before I was, so I'll see if I can work it out. I think I've finally parsed why the book notes it (if it was worded any more ambiguously I never would have understood it, and compounding the problem is that I'm from a state in which everything is run by the state; there is no county-level organization), and your wording seems as good as anything I'm likely to come up with. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:40, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Also, to save you a bit of work the Early life, Second foster home, Debate, and Related studies sections were worked over by someone else, so you probably won't have to worry too much about those. Slp1 and David in DC seem to be a lot better at understanding the virtues of brevity than I am... honestly, at least part of what captivates me is the fact that, apart from our mutual difficulties with certain types of facial recognition, Genie is my diametric opposite. To compensate for my total ineptitude at non-verbal communication (thank you PDD-NOS...), I've developed an extremely large vocabulary and a proclivity to use it to excess, so this gives me some insight into the other extreme end of communication difficulty. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 00:21, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

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Questia email failure: Will resend codes

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Topic ban violation by Maurice

Hello, I wanted to let you know that Maurice is violating his topic ban with this edit , which in addition is entirely unexplained, petty, and bordering on mean-spirited. He is now edit-warring over it, without even providing any justification for his actions, just personal attacks . He has already been blocked once for violating his topic ban . Any help in dealing with this disruption would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Athenean (talk) 00:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, those are really bad. Blocked for a week. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 02:17, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

FYI Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:17, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Questia email success: Codes resent

Check your email. Enjoy! Ocaasi 21:40, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the assistance in squashing vandals!

I owe you thanks for helping to squish vandals on my userspace. You should be rewarded for being diligent, swift, and helpful to users. Thanks again! --Thomas (The Lord of Time) (talk) 20:42, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

ANI

What protection level did you apply to ANI? I'd never seen it before, is it different from semi-protection? Ryan Vesey 23:36, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

It's standard semiprotection; not sure why the message was different, but it's just regular semiprotection. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:47, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

WP:ARBMAC Violation

Hi Blade. I would like to inform you that User:Slovenski Volk violated WP:ARBMAC ban on Macedonian language (and I think on Bulgars and South Slavs as well), while at the same time called me an idiot in this edit summary when I reverted his edit (he of course apologised to me when I asked him for the reason of that edit summary). Macedonian (talk) 08:32, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

RfA: thank you for your support

Blade, thank your for kind words and late-breaking support during my recent RfA. Your willingness to commit your support during the sound and fury in the final hours meant a great deal to me. Warm regards, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:59, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you!

I would like to talk to you about Misplaced Pages development in India at the NYC event. I hope to see you there and look forward to meeting you. Blue Rasberry (talk) 12:24, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Venting: What cannot be said in article space

(No need to read this. I'm just annoyed and taking you up on your invitation. Nothing to do with you or anything you've edited.)

Consider what these two sentences have in common:

1. Use of Ezra Pound's Parable of the Sunfish is rare in scientific publications.
2. The Prabhat Samgiita is performed rarely, if at all, outside of RAWA-sponsored events.

Neither statement can be sourced reliably—not surprising as no one has been interested sufficiently in either topic to write about articles that fail to contain an anecdote or performances that have never been scheduled. Yet any competent editor could sit down and, after some amount of research, conclude that both sentences are likely accurate. There is no mechanism for getting this information back to the reader.

And why does this matter? "Parable" cites all the scientific papers that quote it, and "Sangriita" will no doubt list every RAWA-sponsored performance. This leaves the impression on the reader that these examples are drawn from a larger population when the editors well know this is not at all the case.

And yet... this state of affiars prevents creationists from claiming "There is no evidence the Ichthus Heliodiplodokus evolved." Of course this is true (and not only because the fish never existed), but this is not the entire story: the same human impulse to write only what is considered important means the fact of evolution is not notarized in peer-reviewed journals for every species discovered. The cure here is far worse than the disease.

Thanks for the opportunity to vent. It helped. Delete this at your leisure.

Garamond Lethet
c 07:31, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

I've looked it over, and all I can say is wow. I feel your pain on both fronts, if there's anything I can do to assist you on either one I'm more than happy to step in. It's hard to believe either one of those could go on like that... glad you got your frustrations out here, I mean it when I say this is a fine place to vent. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:06, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Lightning talk

Hi Blade. There is a (low!) possibility that I can swing by for an hour in the afternoon on Saturday. Any idea when you'll give your talk on Indian castes? --regentspark (comment) 16:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Not entirely sure, I think we did it early afternoon last time, around 1. That'd be awesome if you could make it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I'll try to be there at 1. Might have to drag a seven year old along (not easy!). --regentspark (comment) 17:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Good luck with that; as the oldest of 4 siblings, I have some idea of what that can be like. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:16, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

I just rechecked the schedule; it says they're doing it at 2:30, though somehow I get the sense it's going to start a little earlier than that. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

That pushes it back a bit. But I'll try. I will be downtown anyway, just gotta make it work somehow with the kids. --regentspark (comment) 02:13, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Good luck with it, and I hope to see you there. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 06:28, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Stuck uptown. Enjoy! --regentspark (comment) 16:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Do you have a transcript, Blade? Or is it all done ad lib? - Sitush (talk) 16:36, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

(ec) A video version perhaps? --regentspark (comment) 16:37, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, yeah, There's the systemic bias again. <g> What we need is an audio-visual version: either both a transcript and a vid, or a vid with subtitles. In every language, of course. But do we really want to see what Blade looks like? In fact, does Blade really want people to see what they look like? To have an identifiable image circulating the web when dealing with caste stuff? I've had death threats just for the written version! More seriously, anything would be better than nothing - "owt is better than nowt", as people around my environs say. You have my email addy if that is preferable. - Sitush (talk) 01:42, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

I have a transcript, I'll send it to both of you tomorrow after I get off work. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 05:00, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

A Barnstar especially for your work on Genie

		All Around Amazing Barnstar
		Great job! I am One of Many (talk) 19:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Maurice07 evading AE topic ban on Greek-related topics through IP

Hi Blade. IP 188.3.111.74 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is Maurice07 (talk · contribs) evading his AE-imposed ban on Greece-related topics. Please note: the IP is continuing the edit-warring on Echinos for which the master got blocked in the first place. Here the IP is removing information about Cyprus in Mediteranean Sea in an edit the master had introduced in the past. Also see stylistic similarities in edit-summaries: Latest revision as of 18:32, 26 February 2013 188.3.111.74 (Hatay is no longer disputed between Turkey and Syria!) and Maurice07: Maurice07 (See talk page!). Many of the IP edits are also onomatological edit-warring of exactly the same type Maurice07 got blocked for and banned from. And of course the IP is edit-warring trying to add Turkey's dimplomatic missions to Europe rather than Asia, a personal favourite of Maurice07 when he massively edit-warred in the past about the same issue and got his first block on that account. Best regards. Δρ.Κ.  20:28, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, fun. Looks pretty damn obvious to me, so blocked. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 20:44, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Blade. All the best. Δρ.Κ.  20:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi again Blade. This is a comment regarding Maurice's current unblock request. The IP 188.3.111.74 gets blocked on Misplaced Pages at 16:44 UTC on 26 February. Then at 19:05, on the same day, the same IP goes to Commons and, out of millions of files at Commons, alters one of Maurice's files by removing the Greek name of the file. Note that this is the only edit the IP has made to Commons. And Maurice07 wants to present this IP edit at Commons, in his unblock request, as proof that the IP is not him. The timing and location of the IP single edit at Commons and Maurice's use of the same IP edit in his subsequent unblock request is quite a coincidence and that is above and beyond the rest of the flock of evidence. Δρ.Κ.  20:34, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

David Reimer

Hi Blade, I think you might find the case of David Reimer interesting if you have not already heard about it. Here is the youtube documentary (first of five parts): A boy who became a girl. --I am One of Many (talk) 23:52, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I heard of that story many years ago, but I couldn't remember the name; thanks for that! It certainly didn't hit me quite the way Genie has (at the risk of sounding really strange, I can safely say I was much less rattled after watching video of Auschwitz and Buchenwald than I was after the NOVA documentary; I'm still carrying around a lot of very visceral feelings even now, that's what keeps me so zoned in on it), but it's another very interesting case. Perhaps I'll do some work on that sometime, if I ever do finish the work on Genie and the people around her. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 01:27, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

The parallels are striking though. It is another example of a "forbidden experiment" gone wrong. Also, you are clearly bringing Genie to a feature level article, which is certainly deserves.--I am One of Many (talk) 23:25, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Indeed; that's another really awful story, and one which should be well-documented. It's a little further out from what I usually do, but certainly something I could handle. As to Genie, I don't personally care about having an FA myself, but enough other people wanted me to let it through that I acquiesced. It's hard, as I have a lot of very strongly held opinions- among others, I seem to be a lot more sympathetic to the scientists at the center of the case than many of the sources, and I have no great love for the horribly misguided actions Genie's mother took; bluntly put, she had her chance and look what happened, the scientists were the people she should have begged- but I think I've managed so far. And while you're here, thanks for copyediting. I have a tendency to produce William Faulkner-esque sentences (ironic, given I'm much more inclined towards reading Hemingway), and cutting those down is very much appreciated. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 00:05, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

I think you are doing it just right. The thing that really screams out is the foster care system in California, at least at that time. I think the scientists involved were well-intended and Genie did improve early on substantially. If I were conducting the research, I would have focused first on the long-term plan for rehabilitation and then conducted less obtrusive observations to assess progress over time. In the case of David Reimer, there is more of a case for scientific misconduct, but I think there is likely much more to the story that we may never know. I also agree that creating an FA for its own sake is not particularly interesting, but creating high quality one is a great goal and you have done an especially good job of explaining the science.--I am One of Many (talk) 08:35, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

I remember from the program I watched on Reimer some of the descriptions of the "treatment" Money gave him; what we know is bad enough, but as you say we're probably not going to know everything. Between there being far fewer people at the center of that case and many of those people already being dead, there's probably a lot we'll never know. Honestly, I hope it stays that way, as I think the people around Reimer have been through quite enough already and the details we already have speak for themselves.

Same basic thing with Genie; I honestly hope the next time we hear about her is if Susan Curtiss is able to reconnect with her and decides to make a public statement (although who knows, she may have already and decided not to say anything; I really desperately hope that's it). I tend to think the scientists did the best they could in the case, and if they'd had their way things would most likely have turned out much better. The state foster care system is, as you say, what really what made this so much worse than it had to be, although they wouldn't have been involved if Genie's mother had taken honest stock of her role in Genie's condition and not listened to Ruch (at least Ruch got what was coming to her, though; you couldn't come up with better irony than seeing her rendered aphasic). Honestly, I question the wisdom of even allowing her back into Genie's life, given that her brother wanted nothing to do with his mother after he was 18 and Genie didn't seem to care much about her mother when she was first freed. Back on topic, though, I added another source to the article yesterday out of necessity, as I needed to give some other third-party analysis of Curtiss' dissertation in the Debate section. However, I thought the parts of that source that didn't critique Curtiss' dissertation were unnecessary nastiness towards the scientists, and backed up its assertions with some pretty blatant quote mining to boot; fortunately, though, using sources like that is what I do best (my specialty is the Ainu people, and just about everything written on them is overtly racist and very slanted), so I was able to flesh the good parts of it out. I sincerely thank you for the feedback; I was a little concerned about whether I was giving everything the right amount of weight, and I was unsure how well I presented the more technical linguistic material, so it's good to hear I seem to be doing both well. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 21:36, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

I think you have been tying everything together fantastically well. This type of encyclopedic article that ties it all together is well overdue! If you think it would help, I'll do a search on academic reviews of Curtiss' dissertation--and if I'm recalling correct, subsequent publication as a book--and get back to you with the results.--I am One of Many (talk) 23:28, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

I think it would help a lot; I've been over much of Curtiss' dissertation, but another set of eyes would almost certainly find something I missed. I have one academic review from Susan Goldin-Meadow (whose voluminous works I've started reading through when I'm not either researching Genie or reading Zhuangzi and Gongsun Longzi), more would be really helpful if you can find any. And by the way, completely by chance TLC was running the episode on David Reimer this afternoon, so I was able to refresh my memory of that. If I ever do finish my work on Genie and the people around her (I'm perfectly content to take as long as is necessary), I'll start some work on that as well; looks like that article has more than Genie's when I first started working on it, but I'm sure that'll turn into a huge project of its own. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 01:45, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

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Topic Ban appeal

Hi Blade,

please note that I would like to appeal the topic ban:

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_POVbrigand

--POVbrigand (talk) 11:39, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Sandstein explained to me that I should have discussed my appeal with you first User_talk:Sandstein#My_ban_appeal. I wasn't aware of that. --POVbrigand (talk) 12:11, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Hahc21

Hello, do you happen to have Hahc21's email address. I really need to talk to him regarding WP:GA as he has left unexpectedly. If you do, it would be great to email me it through my talk page toolbox.--Dom497 (talk) 23:53, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

You Rock!

Hello, my friend. You're doing astonishingly good and important work. Thank you. This edit summary troubles me. While the work you're doing is astonishingly good and important (which I may have already mentioned,) you are more so. So, speaking as a guy nearly twice your age who has grown fond of you: please put yourself first. There is no deadline on this article. Perhaps the summary is the product of momentary revulsion at a single edit, which has no additional significance. If so, I'm taking the proverbial mole hill and doing with it what hysterics proverbially do with such a proverbial hill. But I figure that's a better approach than ignoring a slight tingle in my spider sense. If appropriate, please consider a short breather. If I've misinterpreted, please excuse my presumption.

Best,

David in DC (talk) 10:45, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Ah, yes; it was slight hyperbole, but only slight. I think I have a somewhat different way of experiencing emotions, which seems to be fairly common among my kind, and instead of breaking me down it's driven me (those who know me personally might say to madness, but I'm pretty sure I got there years ago). If I really started to lose it, I'd know enough to take a break, but I haven't yet. There are definitely a couple sections of the article which are hard to stomach, that being one of them, and the information in that edit especially was not fun to read or write about. I do appreciate your concern; if there was more of this on Misplaced Pages I think it would be a much nicer place all around. And before I go, thank you very much for your work; it hasn't gone unnoticed, and it's been very helpful. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:49, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Your work on Genie

... is incredible. I just came across it, and I don't ever remember being so utterly absorbed in an article. A sad, difficult and enlightening topic. You've done wonders. ~ Riana ⁂ 20:05, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't know how you found it, but I myself originally ended up at the article completely by accident; if I remember correctly, I think I was looking for an instance where it actually made sense to leave out someone's real name. The topic drew me in the same way, although what really did it for me was the NOVA documentary; aside from the very tragic nature of the subject, Genie remains the only person whose face and body language I can read. Everyone who knew her said she had/has some way of drawing emotions out of people, and the video of her certainly got me too—only very rarely does anything do that to me. I can only imagine what it'd be like to actually get to meet with her in person. Thank you very much for your feedback; I'm more a historian than a linguist, so this has been one hell of a ride putting it together. One of these days I might just finish it, but in the meantime I'm perfectly happy to ride it out as long as necessary. I frequently find myself wishing I could do more for her than simply writing about her on Misplaced Pages, but I can't, so I figure I might as well do what I can do as best as possible. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 20:16, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Maurice-7, yet again

He has again violated his topic ban . Athenean (talk) 15:41, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Took me a minute to see what the violation was, but yeah that was an obvious one. Will deal with it now. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:50, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Advice Polack (again)

You may recall restoring this page in December -- check the log, you'll remember. Now it's been deleted again (again under G10, which it certainly is not), right in the middle of AfD and, more importantly, when a discussion among 4 or 5 editors on the article's talk had begun literally an hour earlier, re the reliability of sources (at least one editor familiar with Polish culture and media countering VolunteerMarek's insistence that all the sources are unreliable.) Can you restore again? There seems to be a complete misunderstanding of BLP here.

Don't be confused by VolunteerMarek's version, which is stripped down under his belief that all the sources are unreliable -- see, if it helps, this earlier version -- of course the whole edit history would be restored. Sorry to trouble you -- again! EEng (talk) 20:29, 29 March 2013 (UTC) PS Great work on Genie -- you're like the Energizer Bunny.

"at least one editor familiar with Polish culture and media countering VolunteerMarek's insistence that all the sources are unreliable" - this isn't really true AFAICT, and neither is belief that all the sources are unreliable. TVN is a reliable source. All other ones are indeed unreliable though. Unfortunately the TVN source was/is a very very very minor part of the article.Volunteer Marek 20:36, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

User:Piotrus apparently brought Polish_culture_during_World_War_II to FA so his bona fides are obvious. His evaluation was

Reliable sources: NIE, TVN24, Fakt (if you count tabloits as reliable), perhaps EGI and naTemat, through would have to look at them further. Only TVN24 is a mainstream newspaper outlet here.

I was looking forward to you and he discussing this.

Anyway, the article cannot possibly be characterized as G10. Pages that disparage, threaten, intimidate or harass their subject or some other entity, and serve no other purpose.. It's absurd. Now stop shopping for forums. After the article is restored give reasons for your belief that various sources are unreliable.

EEng (talk) 20:52, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Did you just accuse me of forum shopping, AFTER you've been busy posting to everyone and their dog's talk page about this ? Really? Replying to YOUR attempts at forum shopping is not forum shopping.Volunteer Marek 20:58, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

"Inviting everyone and their dog" isn't forum shopping (or even canvassing, which I think is what you might have meant) -- it's getting as many points of view as possible. I invited everyone who posted to the AfD (without regard to whether they had supported delete or supported keep) plus recent editors of the article, plus its original creator, to participate at Talk:Advice Polack on the question of source reliability. Now that it's been, improperly, deleted as G10 I'm asking that it be restored so the discussion, at the original Talk forum, can continue. You, on the other hand, are advocating that the deletion stand (otherwise what are you doing here?) -- in other words, if you can keep it deleted, you won't have to face actual discussion in the original forum, the Talk page.

To summarize, I'm here to ask that the original discussion, now aborted, can continue, while you're here to ask that the original discussion remain aborted, since that leads to the outcome you want -- deletion. That's what you might call preemptive forum shopping.

Anyway, the only question before us here is whether the article qualified as G10. Blade? (I don't know what the last version looked like, but if there's any question be sure to examine the version I linked earlier, which certainly isn't G10)

EEng (talk) 21:49, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Objecting to your false characterization of discussion, that's what I'm doing here. Look, I agree that the page shouldn't have been speedy deleted this time around, since the AfD was ongoing. I am not here to "ask" anything - where did I "ask" for anything? You're the one doing all the asking. You're attributing things to me which just aren't true. And you've accused me of forum shopping without any basis or reason.Volunteer Marek 21:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

In all our interactions it's the same thing -- you reply to things people didn't say. What I said was

You, on the other hand, are advocating that the deletion stand (otherwise what are you doing here?)

Since you didn't say you support restoration, instead went to the trouble of claiming I misrepresented you, one draws the obvious conclusion that you were opposing what I was requesting -- restoration.

Why didn't you fucking just say you support restoration -- or just say nothing here, and let restoration happen -- then pick up any issues between us back on the article Talk where they belong. Why stir up all this dust?

So, Blade, since my friend here and I seem to be in violent agreement, can you confirm no G10, and then restore? (I just noticed this , which implies some hot evidence compelling deletion was on the article's Talk, so better be sure to check that -- though I still think we're surrounded by people who don't understand G10. When I contacted you I thought this would be a straightforward restoral -- sorry. Um, this seems to be the "evidence' referred to -- what BS.)

EEng (talk) 22:17, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Indeed I will, and if you need me to do anything else let me know. Seems pretty straightforward to me. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 23:11, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I have declined a further G10 nomination, and reopened the AfD which was closed after Merovingian's G10 deletion. JohnCD (talk) 23:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Rev-del (or oversight, or whatever)

This article is the gift that keeps on giving. I forget which is the right process -- revdel or oversight -- but the very person who was requesting G10 posted the real-life name of the person involved, plus a link to his work webpage. Can you swiftly revdel/oversight the material added here ? EEng (talk) 23:41, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Sigh, that's not a "link to his work webpage" that's a link to one of these crappy sources from the article. Seriously, if you have no idea of what you're talking about, why get into an argument? Volunteer Marek 23:44, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

The post providing the link said it was to the individual's work webpage. I took him at his word. EEng (talk) 04:03, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) And I got to say, it's... "ironic", that here you're attacking the editor who G10 nommed it for "linking to his photo", yet this is one of the very sources you're trying to CRAM into this article. BLP, BLP and one more time, BLP.Volunteer Marek 23:49, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Rev-deleted. Posting this name and picture are absolutely contrary to WP:BLP. JohnCD (talk) 23:47, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Dude. This is one of the "sources" that EEng and others are trying to add to this article! If putting it on the talk page (in order to illustrate BLP problems) is contrary to BLP, then sure as hell putting it IN THE ARTICLE is contrary to BLP.Volunteer Marek 23:49, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

You're mixed up as (it can now be said with confidence) usual. I haven't added any sources to the article, merely copyedited it, and asked for discussion on which sources are reliable. I don't know what's in them in detail, so I'm not surprised to hear one of them is the same as the one being revdel-ed here. You're turning the fact that I didn't realize that two sources are the same into some kind of demonstration of hypocrisy. Please discuss this on the article's Talk and leave poor Blade be. EEng (talk) 00:21, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Nope, not mixed up . You were (re) adding this source to the article, but somehow have a problem with a link to it being placed on the talk page. I don't know if it's hypocrisy, but it's something.Volunteer Marek 00:50, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

It is in the nature of mixed-up people to not realize it -- see Dunning–Kruger effect. Any experienced editor looking at the link you provided understands what I was doing. Please take this to the article's Talk, where I've set up a subsection for each source so as to group together various editors' opinions on that source. Blade, I'm sorry I got you involved -- thought it would be a straightforward restore. EEng (talk) 03:58, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

It is in the nature of mixed-up people to not realize it -- see Dunning–Kruger effect - is this like when you compared me to Hitler and then accused ME of violating Godwin's Law? You might want to pause once in awhile and reflect on whether the advice you're so ready to dish out to others just might not apply to yourself.Volunteer Marek 04:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Can't I even get up to go to the bathroom without a renewal of this mischegas?

No, what I said (long ago) was that Hitler was a striking illustration of how dangerous autodidacts can be; then I said "but I rush to mention, as well, Godwin's Law" (or something like that); that is, by pointing self-consciously to the tendency for nasty comparisons to be invoked, I was explicitly disavowing the idea that I might be making such a comparison in this case (beyond the point about autodidacts). I've already explained this to you at least once and you still don't get it?

As for "accusing of violating Godwin's Law" -- Crikey, where to begin? Godwin's "Law" states that all discussions sooner or later degenerate into Nazi namecalling. Accusing you of "violating Godwin's Law" would mean,... um,... saying something to you along the lines of, "Hey, you're violating the rule that says sooner or later you have to call someone a Nazi! Get with the program, will you? You can start by calling me Hermann Goering!" What an idiotic concept.

As to your suggestion that I unknowingly suffer from Dunning-Kruger: I take substantial reassurance from the low incidence of multiple editors simultaneously asking me to please put a sock in it. That mode of reassurance not being available to you, I assume you've found some interpretation of events which salves your ego during those hard times.

Now for the nth time, I don't enjoy watching you make a fool of yourself -- well, maybe just a bit, but still it's not a very productive use of my time -- so will you please stop embarrassing yourself in these hopeless attempts to one-up me, and get over to Talk:Advice Polack with some substantive comments on source reliability.

Blade, always good to see you. Your work on Genie has been FA-ntastic. EEng (talk) 04:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Now I remember why I ended the conversation with you last time. Given enough time your comments degenerate into incomprehensible babble. So once again, I'm done talking to you.Volunteer Marek 05:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

I will have a good, thorough look at this tomorrow when I get home from work; should be about 12 hours from now. I'm not ignoring this, I just wasn't in the right frame of mind to deal with it tonight (nothing really to do with Misplaced Pages). Oh, and if you want incomprehensible babble, go to the article EEng references above; I rather think EEng is more comprehensible than Genie or Chelsea. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 05:27, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Blade, I hope you didn't think there was any implied rebuke on my part for "ignoring this." But if you are so foolhardy as to venture in... remember, this is my copyedited version of the page -- the current one is a stub which Marek keeps substituting. I want to be clear that I know nothing of the sources -- all I did was copyedit -- but it was the venerable John Vandenberg that largely built the article, and naturally I trust him. EEng (talk) 12:37, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

No, nothing of the sort taken. All right, I've looked at everything here and I'm really not seeing anything requiring admin tools. There's no BLP violation that I'm picking up on, and I'm not familiar enough with the subject to say anything about weight and sources. John Vandenberg seems like the person who Volunteer Marek should be after, so if you have a problem go there; EEng pretty much looks like just a copyeditor on the article. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:06, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Belated thanks. EEng (talk) 03:11, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Account creation

Just so you know, the stewards just locked the AFD account you created... they didn't think it was funny. --Rschen7754 03:40, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

The thing is that there were two other accounts created minutes before this one that were locally blocked. It appeared to me that this was just another vandal account. Just like happens every day, with a similar name pattern. We don't check log of creation before locking. It is now unlocked anyway. Regards.—Teles «Talk to me˱_{M @ C S}˲» 04:18, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Any big plans for this one?  7  05:26, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

That's the one that was just unlocked. Ryan Vesey 05:32, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

No, no worries; I could have been a little more descriptive in my account creation. Wasn't thinking of doing anything specific, just trying to unwind a little bit. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 13:10, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Edits

Dude. What part of "April Fools" do you not understand? Harmless pranking is a tradition around here on April 1. Ten Pound Hammer • 18:33, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

• Wow, my eyesight really is shot. Ten Pound Hammer • 18:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC)