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Relevance

This article doesn't state the jurisdictions to which it refers. It is a catagoric fact that the crime of rape (versus sexual assault) cannot be perpetrated by a woman in England and Wales, unfair it may be but that is the state of the law today. The jurisdictions refered to need to be clarified here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.222.234.136 (talk) 03:09, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

A slightly odd distinction. Under English law the woman may still go to jail for life. see http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts2003/ukpga_20030042_en_2#pt1-pb3-l1g4 subsection 4, c and d Fiddle Faddle (talk) 13:24, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Recent edits

I've removed a good deal of questionable content, all per our core policies. Please consider discussing it here prior to re-adding this material.
brenneman 05:45, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Female-on-male rape POV?

Just scanning the article, not really following it or anything (I linked to it from the article on John Irving's Garp), notice the tone of the female-one-male non-statuatory rape section is a bit biased. I don't have an agenda here--I might agree with the editor's political points, for all I know--but it's basically using studies to argue with what is "generally considered" by the law, et al. So on an (apparently) controversial subject, differing views are mentioned only to disagree with them. I think that violates Misplaced Pages's NPOV--it's certainly not encyclopedic, or in written in good faith. I'll look at it later, and maybe think about editing it, but I'll throw the idea out there. I think the same information could perhaps be presented in a better way.65.117.234.99 (talk) 11:52, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

-Looks fine to me. --24.145.53.167 (talk) 14:31, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Rape of Females by Females removed

I removed the above mentioned paragraph for several reasons.

• First the reference given was totally wrong. The cited article treats of rape by men in Haiti where normally goes unpunished or the victims end in jail. Not a word about female rapers.
• Plainly false sentence like: "impossible as many official organisations refuse to acknowledge its existence". First of all, which "official" organization? Lesbian organization do talk about (general) violence in lesbian couple and do often offer counseling for it. So, if female on female rape it would be discussed too and not refuse to acknowledge.
• Weasel words like "Many people think"

--Dia^ (talk) 11:57, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Heh I was just going to say I think we should add a "Rape of Females by Females" section... are you planning to re-add it, worded differently? If you are having troubles with any "cases" I know there was a case of "lesbian gangs" who were raping other females in the US that might be a decent source. Avalik (talk) 00:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

By the way this article is structured you would expect such a section, even if it were just to say that it doesn't exist or is unknown (either statement would of course be hard to make without sources to back these negatives up). A quick google search would seem to confirm the prejudice that it is popular in media, but less prevalent in real life. the "Female-female rape links" in http://rapesurvivor.pbworks.com/External-links indicates that at least some perceive this to be an issue, though I wouldn't consider these links to be reliable sources, not to speak of authorative sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.103.80.129 (talk) 05:44, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Rape of females by females re-added (and format)

It seems like the person who deleted it wasn't going to re-add it ... I agree that it needed to be edited, but not completely demolished. So I re-added it and I'd say I pretty much completely re-did it, though with a few original lines to base it off of.

I tried my best to include sources from both sides of the spectrum, however the side that either portrayed it as a national epidemic that was destorying the country/world, or non-existant I generally found to be biased ... despite this, I did include one source for this viewpoint, though I did find it to be very biased. I tried finding sources that argued if it was non-existant or an epidemic that didn't seem biased but failed.

As for the other side of the spectrum (it exists, here is some stats, blah blah blah) I found them more readily available and less biased ... but that may be personal bias here, so please do review, as I am trying to keep it NPOV as possible.

If my section wasn't done well enough, I do really advise to not just "delete it", the section introduction "Female on female rape has been the least publicised form of rape, though it arguably does occur. It is often labelled "lesbian rape", though the sexual identity of one or both (or more) persons involved may or may not actually be lesbian. Forced penetration by another female is possible with the use of strap-ons, dildos, other foreign objects and digital penetration." is rather NPOV and hard to challenge, so if you want to erase it at least keep that.

As for the format .... I did it so it goes like,

Rape:

1. (by males)

a. of females

b. of males

2. (by females)

a. of females

b. of males

b.1 statutory

b.2 non-statutory

seems more consistent with than what we originally had,

Rape:

1. (by males)

a. of females

b. of males

2. (by females)

a. of males

b.1 statutory

b.2 non-statutory

b. of females

Avalik (talk) 23:32, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

The only citation given for the claim that studies on female-on-female sexual violence "show a range from a low of 5% to a high of 57% of respondents claiming they had experienced, attempted or completed sexual assault or rape by another woman, with most studies finding rates of over 30%" was Salzman, L., Fanslow, J., McManon P., Shelly, G., 1999. National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. “Intimate Partner Violence Surveillance: Uniform Definitions and Recommended Data Elements.” National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. However, Salzman et al. does not contain any statistics on female-on-female rape, or any other kind of rape. It's just a guide containing definitions and coding information for people who are preparing reports on rape statistics. Since these claims are not properly sourced I am removing them. CKarnstein (talk) 15:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, my apologies I obviously had a source for it but I must have grabbed the wrong cite. I'm putting it back up with a different cite, hopefully I have the right one this time.

In future reference, you're supposed to challenge material like that not just completely delete it. I'm also taking off your "request citiation" on the last part... because it says right there, "quote from ____ book". Or do you need a citiation that it is indeed a quote? Avalik (talk) 14:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Alright got a few sources... not sure if I have to expand on the researcher name and year and the book and such, though I did for a few of them. I took out the whole sentence that you requested a citation as well after some thinking... I couldn't find a source that says that this is what the book actually says. It was a little wordy anyways though I liked how it lead into the next paragraph part, oh well! Avalik (talk) 15:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you need more than just an author name and year for a cite. Something like "Wood (1987)" is not enough information for anyone else to be able to look up this cite. Complete cites need to be provided for all of these claims, or they will be removed. I also find it impossible to believe that "most studies" find that over 30% of all women have been raped by other women. If these studies are of lesbians in particular then you need to say so. And since this article is specifically about rape, not all forms of sexual assault, it's misleading to quote statistics that cover all forms of attempted or actual sexual assault. Domestic violence figures are also irrelevant to this article, as most domestic violence is not rape. As it stands, the article is claiming that female-on-female rape is over six times more common than male-on-female rape. CKarnstein (talk) 17:02, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

On further reflection, I don't think anyone should waste their time expanding citations that are irrelevant and misleading in the context of this article. I am removing the statistical claims on sexual assault and domestic violence from this article, which is specifically about rape. The topic of female-on-female domestic violence is already covered in the broader Violence against women article. Oh, and for future reference, it is not Misplaced Pages policy to ask permission before editing an article, especially if it is incorrect or badly cited. We are encouraged to "be bold" in editing. See Misplaced Pages:Citing sources for more information on correctly citing sources. CKarnstein (talk) 22:34, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I'll remember that for future reference. I saw it used elsewhere I think (just a study and year) so maybe that's where I got the idea that I could get away with just a year and name. Also my apologies on the wrong wording, you're right I intended to mean lesbian-identified women (I think, it's been awhile now) and I didn't intend to be misleading. If you'd like maybe it would be better if I linked you the sources/cites and you could expand with them instead as I seem to be failing miserably with doing it myself ha - I suppose the 'sexual assault' sources would be irrelevant but certainly not every single ref I cited wasn't irrelevant so I'm sure you could get something from some of them. Or maybe we can just leave it... statisticless :) that could work too. As for the last bit if that's the case thanks for letting me know... I didn't say for you to ask permission though, but rather ah... in example, tag it with "unreliable citation" or something of that sort? Just want to make that clear, I certainly didn't mean "ask me before editting this!" Avalik (talk) 16:03, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

ADD: Ah... after doing a quick search I'm going to have to disagree and say that an author name and year WAS enough. Here was my cites: Girshick, 2002; Loulan, 1988; Sloan and Edmond, 1996; Renzetti, 1992 and Waldner-Haugrud and Gratch, 1997 ... try googling any one of those and just those. The relevant studies or articles come up right away no problem. So, yeah, they weren't badly cited... maybe you should have verified that they weren't enough first. But anyways, I'm going to assume you'll remove it if I try to add some statistics again even if it was properly cited but feel free to (or anyone else, really) to go through my cites (rest are in history) and re-add the stats if you so feel inclined... I spent a few hours gathering them so it's not like I was rash about finding them. Avalik (talk) 16:17, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Male of male

Why isn't there a male by male rape section? Is there no data? Is it listed elsewhere? Can it be linked? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.244.232 (talk) 18:17, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

This article talks about its use in warfare. There's probably a lot of useful info there but I've no time to add to this article at the moment - so please feel free to use it. Malick78 (talk) 20:50, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

The female-on-male section is poor

It starts by saying that erectile response is involuntary, which implies that the definition of female-on-male rape is primarily, or includes, a woman causing a non-consenting man with an erection to penetrate her.

To make this claim (like any other claim), Misplaced Pages needs a citation showing that this situation exists. Gronky (talk) 08:25, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

The Statutory female-on-male rape is poor

This section is poor and I suggest using the entry on this from the Wiki page on statutory rape http://en.wikipedia.org/Statutory_rape. Which reads ( the references will have to moved over as well)

Female-male statutory rape

In the past, sex involving an adult female and an underage male was often ignored by the law, and was often interpreted as a sexual initiation for the younger male. However, in recent years, social perceptions have shifted, in part because mental health experts have noted that such sexual encounters can often be characterized as abusive, resulting in serious, long-term problems for the boys involved. Additionally, controversial were cases when the adult female is in a position of responsibility over the boy, and there have now been a number of high profile cases (Mary Kay Letourneau, Debra Lafave, Pamela Rogers Turner, Pamela Smart), in which adult females have been prosecuted for participating in sexual relationships with younger males. Under English and Scottish common law, such cases would be viewed as indecent assault and some cases have been prosecuted.

In the U.S., courts across the country including the California Court of Appeal have held that male victims of statutory rape are liable for child support for any children resulting from the crime.

Zimbazumba (talk) 03:39, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

That's more about legal history of such rape. But giving a short explanation of what statutory rape is, would be helpful, as I, for example, had to search for this term to figure out whether it is prosecuted, etc.Q42Dqv (talk) 17:19, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Woman

A woman's physiological response to sexual contact is involuntary. In rare cases, women can become physically aroused, produce natural lubrication, and even experience orgasms against their will during rape. I am not sure about anyone else, but it seems to infer that a mans physiological response to sexual contact is different from a womans ie it's voluntary, although men will not produce natural lubrication they might get other physiochemical reactions eg erections —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.84.61.109 (talk) 13:42, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tek gungu

This is the name given to the practice of male-on-male rape in the military conflicts of the Congo DRC. We should cover this better than we currently do. The documentary Gender Against Men is a good starting place for getting a prespective on this situation. __meco (talk) 19:39, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Innacurate Reference Summary

The summary for reference #2 states: 'estimates that 100,000–140,000 violent male-male rapes occur in U.S. prisons annually; compare with FBI statistics that estimated 90,000 violent male-female rapes occur annually.'

This is incorrect in that the FBI estimate is an estimate of the number of rapes *reported to the police nationwide*, not an estimate of the actual total number of rapes committed against women. This is very important because the summary gives the impression that more men are raped in prison than women in the whole US, which is incorrect.

6:25 Mrach 6th, 2012.

Female on male rape

"Penetration of a man by a woman is possible through forcible stimulation of external male genitalia..." I don't understand how this could result or aid in the woman penetrating the man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdmitch16 (talk • contribs) 13:38, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I think this statement refers to pushing objects or fingers/tongue between the foreskin and the glans, and down the urethra. The legal status of the later is definitely "sexual penetration," but I am not so sure about the former. Either way, you are right, this statement is far from clear, but I'd like to see its author give an explanation before removing or changing it.Q42Dqv (talk) 05:43, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

None of those scenarios require genital stimulation, so I still don't see how the sentence makes any sense. Kaldari (talk) 10:09, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Merge with Wiki Rape Article

I think the work on this article is excellent, however, I feel it would be fully appreciated by everyone if it was merged with the Wiki Rape article. It would save time for many people in identifying what rape is, who can commit it, and what are the ramifications of rape, if it was all located in the one article with different sections. In the talk section of the Wiki Rape article, there are many citations of female to male rape and many other good suggestions that may help give prominence to this very delicate issue. As it stands separated from the Wiki Rape article, it has no merit and people may overlook it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.33.35.92 (talk) 14:31, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree with you. Few people ever come across this article. I, for example, have been periodically reading various Misplaced Pages articles related to rape, for the past few years. I came across this article for the first time, a week ago, only because I became interested specifically in female-on-male rape and decided to enter the term into Misplaced Pages's search bar. Also, I think that merging this article with the "Rape" article will attract many good editors to it, as, in contrast to your view, I think it is poorly written and needs a lot more work. It is sloppily written in some places, and very vaguely or painfully brief in others. Thanks. Q42Dqv (talk) 06:07, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Assertions about the number of male-victim prison rapes exceeding the total number of female-victim rapes.

"Several studies argue that male-male prisoner rape, as well as female-female prisoner rape, might be the most common and least-reported forms of rape, with some studies suggesting such rapes are substantially more common in both per-capita and raw-number totals than male-female rapes in the general population."

This is how the section stood before editing https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Rape_by_gender&diff=552277525&oldid=550253930 . There are three references given here but none of them support the claim in the section above, by my reading of each at least. This issue seems to relate to "Innacurate Reference Summary" above: I am given the distinct impression that someone is attempting to get the article to support a specific plank of the Men's rights movement platform, namely that male-victim prison rapes exceed total female-victim rapes, rather than editing in a good faith effort to summarize existing research. If a reference can be given that clearly supports this & it can be stated without weasel words ("some studies ..." "...suggest might...") go ahead and add it back. Please do not write "Some studies" without tying the assertion back to a specific source- by my reading these articles do not support the above assertion. 76.119.100.216 (talk) 14:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Expansion

Each of the sections in this article could benefit from expansion. Topics that could be addressed include the effects of society on the ability of victims to seek help, how society affects the ability to prosecute, the role of the media, and societal norms that may make it difficult to for victims to speak about their experiences or obtain counseling.

In addition, the sections are short and tend to only make note of a couple pertinent local cases. The article could benefit from a more global view and more analysis on how culture affects each of the subgroups. SpiceUpTheMind (talk) 05:13, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Questionable statement regarding conviction by gender

Quote, "It also stated that 99% of the people convicted of and imprisoned in response to rape accusations were male, with only 1% of those convicted being female."

Most immediately, this is not what (Greenfeld) claims. The relevant claim from Greenfeld is: "Nearly all arrestees for forcible rape in 1995 were male (99%)"; that is, this describes arrests rather than conviction.

I think it is very likely that this statement is based on the FBI's Uniform Crime Report of 1995, which can be found here: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/1995. Greenfeld lists among his references, "Uniform Crime Reports FBI, Crime in the United States, selected years." If we look at the UCR 1995, specifically Table 33, page 213 under Section IV, it lists 23809 males and 297 females as being arrested for forcible rape in 1995 in the United States - this is indeed 99%.

My concern is that the UCR 1995, specifically page 23 under Section II, defines "forcible rape" as follows: "Forcible rape, as defined in the Program, is the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Assaults or attempts to commit rape by force or threat of force are also included; however, statutory rape (without force) and other sex offenses are excluded." In other words, this statistic reflects 'X on female' rape rather than rape in general.

I am not well acquainted with the community and am reluctant to make edits, however I would be grateful if a more competent individual would review this information and consider a relevant edit. Thanks! 216.238.229.246 (talk) 20:57, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Dear poster. Thank you for the valuable research. I think your point is correct. Debresser (talk) 00:58, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

The "1 in 71 men had been raped" stat is misleading

The "1 in 71 men have been raped" stat from the CDC survey is misleading. It defines "rape" as the attacker penetrating the victim, which excludes women who use their vagina to rape a man (rape by envelopment) which is counted as “made to penetrate”. The very same survey says “1 in 21 men (4.8%) reported that they were made to penetrate someone else,” which is far more than 1 in 71. Also, the study says that 79.2% of male victims of “made to penetrate” reported only female perpetrators, meaning they were raped by a woman.

The above, lifetime stats do show a lower percentage of male victims (up to 1.4% rape by penetration + 4.8% made to penetrate = 6.2%) than female victims (18.3%) although it is far more than the 1 in 71 stated in the article. However, if you look at the report’s stats for the past 12 months, just as many number of men were “forced to penetrate” as women were raped, meaning that if you properly include “made to penetrate” in the definition of rape, men were raped as often as women.

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