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	Dice was one of the Sports and recreation good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result May 22, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted December 27, 2005 Good article nominee Listed April 22, 2009 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

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Dice Holdings

Is there any way we can add information about the other brands that this company owns? See the portfolio here:

http://www.diceholdingsinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=211152&p=irol-landing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarnobat (talk • contribs) 19:34, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Singular/plural

If you had asked me, I would have guessed that our article is correct to have "die" as the singular form. However, according to the OED website: "Historically, dice is the plural of die, but in modern standard English dice is both the singular and the plural: throw the dice could mean a reference to either one or more than one dice". . Should the article be changed accordingly? Formerip (talk) 20:29, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Their entry for Die, , defines die as a singular form of dice. But it also says: "In modern standard English, the singular die (rather than dice) is uncommon. Dice is used for both the singular and the plural." I'm one of those who have reverted changes of die to dice in this article, but unless good recent sources support die, it seems it should be changed. (PS. I'm not a native English speaker.)--Nø (talk) 06:16, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Really? Wow, it's surprising to me that the OED says that. As a native speaker who talks about dice fairly often, I rarely hear dice used as a singular, and it sounds jarring and unusual when I do. The wiktionary entry suggests using die when talking about the object, and dice when talking about plurals or the game as a whole. I think that in cases where both are acceptable, the best philosophy is to leave it as it already is, just like with national variations of English. I'm not sure if that's policy, though. Grayfell (talk) 06:42, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

As another native English speaker who also talks about dice a lot (mainly in the context of kids' board games), I have the complete opposite experience to Grayfell above -- I rarely hear "die" & it sounds wrong & jarring to my ear. I have also just checked the instructions of some random boardgames close to hand and found one definite example (an English board game from the 1980s) where the instructions consistently say "dice" even when talking about a single die. (I can upload a scan of this if it would help) So I suggest both "die" & "dice" are mentioned as acceptable singulars in English since clearly there are regional differences. Too Orangey For Crows (talk) 14:28, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Isn't that odd? It seems like it might be worth mentioning the singular dice usage. You got me curious, so I also grabbed a stack of games I have handy. The four I grabbed all used die, the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game book, a Milton Bradley game, a Discovery Toys game, published for an American audience, and a Ravensburger game which is more international. Anyway, is it okay to cite a dictionary for that kind of thing? I'm going for it. Grayfell (talk) 04:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

What's in OED seems to go further than this, though. Not that "dice" is an acceptable alternative as the singular, but that it is the standard form, with "die" being archaic. Formerip (talk) 15:02, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

It merely says uncommon, not archaic. The US English version () doesn't even say that, and the Random House dictionary simply defines it as the singular of dice (). This suggest to me that it is probably a matter of WP:ENGVAR and should be left alone for now. Grayfell (talk) 02:34, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

I have to agree with your findings. 50.151.230.203 (talk) 02:43, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

You've linked to the wrong entry in the American English OED. The cube with numbers on is dice: . So the issue does not appear to be ENGVAR but common usage. Formerip (talk) 20:37, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

The full OED entry (can't link, accessing it through a university site) for "die" states, "I. With plural dice. (The form dice (used as pl. and sing.) is of much more frequent occurrence in gaming and related senses than the singular die.)" I'm startled, as I've always used "die" for singular, and still prefer it. DoorsAjar (talk) 21:51, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

I stand corrected about the OED-American link, but I remain unconvinced that it's not a regional variation. The Random House dictionary does state die as being the standard singular. Merriam Webster seems to agree () Admittedly they don't have the quite the weight of the OED, but for regional variations it seems significant that two major American dictionaries are in agreement. The American Heritage Dictionary seems to agree with the OED, however, which, if nothing else, shows that it far from a settled issue, and should be edited with a great deal of caution. My point was that for issues where either are acceptable, it's best to just leave it alone and stick with whatever was in the original article. I think that WP:RETAIN still applies here. Grayfell (talk) 23:19, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Merriam Webster also has this: , and the Random House entry seems weird to me. You don't normally see the plural of a count noun with it's own entry, so they seem confused about what they are doing.

I don't see any evidence that this is about regional variation, but if it is, we need sourcing that says so, so we can be clear about it in the article.

I also therefore don't think WP:RETAIN applies. I think we determine what is most authoritative in terms of sourcing and follow it. Formerip (talk) 23:59, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

This seems like it might need an RFC to resolve. 174.251.2.54 (talk) 03:03, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Dubious

As I was copyediting this article, I found some information in it that I find dubious. (Much of the article is unsourced.) In particular, the article claims "Tacitus stated that the Germans were passionately fond of dicing", but there were no "Germans" at that time, and any such term would be an anachronism. There were Gauls, Franks, Celts, Teutons, and Goths, all living in that general region and/or providing ancestors for modern Germans, and I'm not sure what group Tacitus referred to. – Quadell 17:49, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Also, the article claims "The word for four in Chinese, Japanese and Korean is a homophone of the word for death and is considered unlucky." Japanese, Korean, and the various languages in China are from different language families and have very different words for both "four" and "death". It isn't a homophone in all these languages. – Quadell 18:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I guess we can see why it is was delisted at GAR... there's a lot of fix, but thank you for the copyedit! 129.33.19.254 (talk) 18:22, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

For anyone who's curious, The Chinese-Japanese-Korean thing is about the Chinese writing system. 四, the character for 'four' is pronounced the same or similarly as 死, the character for 'death'. Chinese languages, Japanese, and to a lesser extent Korean all use these characters, so this aversion is shared. Having said that, the connection to this topic is really "dicey", and I would have no problem cutting it from the article. Grayfell (talk) 08:07, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Three points for "dicey". I too think it should be omitted. – Quadell 13:49, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

The use of "Germans" probably refers to the tribes of Germania as collectively identified in this way by the Romans. It seems to me one of those acceptable historical anachronisms. For example retrospectively referring to the Holy Roman Empire, what was going on in "England" when it was clearly individual Anglo-Saxon/Danish kingdoms or referring to Christopher Columbus as Italian before such a country existed. Now to the red fours. A linked article says now about India being the origin of red fours. Why?. Like thirteen in the west, four is an unlucky number in much of the far East and there have been sources to say the Red is a lucky colour used to compensate the bad luck. The origins of unlucky four may or may not be down to the homophone with death in Chinese, but it does not need to also be a homophone in other languages for the supistition to spread. Dainamo (talk) 08:45, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Copy edit, September 2013

I have copyedited down through "Non-cubic". A copyedit is still needed from "Standard variations" down. Another day... – Quadell 13:47, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I have copyedited the section "Standard variations". A copyedit is now needed from "Rarer variations" on down. Greatpopcorn (talk) 20:39, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I have copyedited the rest of the article. Removing copy edit tag. Greatpopcorn (talk) 01:13, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Are citations needed? Comment Reply

We have

The 4-sided platonic solid is difficult to roll, and a few games like Dayakattai and Daldøs use a 4-sided rolling pin instead.

The citations can be found in the wikilinked articles. Do we really need to repeat them here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nø (talk • contribs) 12:56, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

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